$200 Jeans?

[JC69]

Hmmm..here's ignorance for you....natural indigo and synthetic indigo dyes contain the same active dyestuff and therefore same colour...and glad to see that the jeans you quote come from Zimbabwean sourced materials....because as we all know, Zimbabwe is a very model of modern world citizenship. So far then..lots of fancy marketing hype.

Now..hand made might well make a difference but perhaps more to the point that each pair of jeans might be slightly unique. As for cut...do you really think that modern jean manufacturers haven't thought of unpicking the seams of jeans and copying the cuts? Civilisations have been reverse engineering things for years...and tailoring is one of the older professions. Feed a plan into modern machinery and hey-presto...lots of copies of machine made jeans with the same cut as your boutique specimins at a lower price.

Seriously..nothing wrong with liking expensive jeans but claiming a vastly superior product that is worth the 4-5 X price hike of some other jeans is stretching it. You are paying for the exclusivity and if that's valuable to you then great.

Edit: The reason that the cotton in Zimbabwe is organic is probably because they can't actually afford pesticides with the 1,000,000% inflation they currently have. Just something to ponder.

[red120]

Hmmm..here's ignorance for you....natural indigo and synthetic indigo dyes contain the same active dyestuff and therefore same colour...

I stopped reading here.

Have you ever seen the results of natural vs. synthetic dye?

Really.

[JC69]

I stopped reading here.

Have you ever seen the results of natural vs. synthetic dye?

Really.

Yes..I lectured on the synthesis of synthetic indigo versus extraction of natural indigo last year to Grad students. PM me, I'll tell you how to make synthetic indigo which is exactly the same formula as the natural pigment. In the same PM I'll let you know how you extract natural indigo and why you end up with the same product.

Education is a marvelous thing, it often helps you see through hype and spin.

[red120]

Yes..I lectured on the synthesis of synthetic indigo versus extraction of natural indigo last year to Grad students. PM me, I'll tell you how to make synthetic indigo which is exactly the same formula as the natural pigment. In the same PM I'll let you know how you extract natural indigo and why you end up with the same product.

Education is a marvelous thing, it often helps you see through hype and spin.

After a few pages of nothing but cynical one-liners in this thread, you're suddenly a lecturer and an expert on the subject? Right.

Considering neither of us is running a textile mill in his basement, here's an easier example:

Find a low-level item on the market that has comparable colour quality and characteristics as ultra-premium denim. Chroma, hue, value, fade, etc. It won't happen. Who are you going to go to? Wranglers? Sevens? Levis*?

*: Yes, I know Levis has select high-end stuff as well.

[JC69]

Far from suddenly...I think it's taken me 20 years to get here.

[Vashin]

Mmm.. interesting.

Been actually staying away from Japanese denim lately.. not feeling the typical silhouette now that everyone is rocking it.

Maybe I'll cop a pair just to check them out. Anyone stocking them in NYC? Or have an online link?

KMW is an american company that uses japanese denim. Even with Japanese denim companies there are plenty of different cuts. Check out a brand called stronghold, they have some pretty cool stuff

[red120]

KMW is an american company that uses japanese denim. Even with Japanese denim companies there are plenty of different cuts. Check out a brand called stronghold, they have some pretty cool stuff

Yes, definately.. but if you were to group all Japanese denim, you'd see a lot of mainline trends emerging.

What I mean is that you look at stuff like Sugarcanes, Samurais, Evisu JP.. a lot of stuff is instantly recognizable.. others may disagree, I guess.

Saw Stronghold's stuff back when Revolve used to carry it, not really a fan..

[Vashin]

http://acontinuouslean.com/2008/07/14/the-stronghold/ The also have a MTM line, and they don't use japanese denim. They use Cone denim which is from the US and the only producer of selvedge denim in the us

Also those brands you mentioned, specifically sugarcane and samurai, they are repro brands so technically they should look like the old school levi's. But I'm pretty sure there is probably some more fashion oriented lines of denim.

Maybe also check out stuff by robert gellar (a 'designer' type jean), ACNE (Swedish? I dunno but def european), April77 (super skinny cuts), Nom De Guerre (Some interesting jeans in heather/grey/charcoal), Rag and Bone (For 'dressier' jeans, they have lined waistbands!)

[red120]

http://acontinuouslean.com/2008/07/14/the-stronghold/ The also have a MTM line, and they don't use japanese denim. They use Cone denim which is from the US and the only producer of selvedge denim in the us

Also those brands you mentioned, specifically sugarcane and samurai, they are repro brands so technically they should look like the old school levi's. But I'm pretty sure there is probably some more fashion oriented lines of denim.

Maybe also check out stuff by robert gellar (a 'designer' type jean), ACNE (Swedish? I dunno but def european), April77 (super skinny cuts), Nom De Guerre (Some interesting jeans in heather/grey/charcoal), Rag and Bone (For 'dressier' jeans, they have lined waistbands!)

Yeah.. nonetheless, still not too big a fan of Stronghold. M2M denim is an interesting idea.. I think 45RPM was doing it too a while back, but I never ended up getting anything.

NDG was nice back in its heyday, the quality seems to have gone downhill.

You're right, Geller isn't bad.

[Vashin]

haha I kind of want a pair of strongholds eventually... They make a hickory striped jean that SHOUTS railway 1920s-30s railway conductor. F;ing awesome

[xinhang]

Yes..I lectured on the synthesis of synthetic indigo versus extraction of natural indigo last year to Grad students. PM me, I'll tell you how to make synthetic indigo which is exactly the same formula as the natural pigment. In the same PM I'll let you know how you extract natural indigo and why you end up with the same product.

Education is a marvelous thing, it often helps you see through hype and spin.

I agree. Synthetic indigo and natural is the same. It is the same chemical therefore it is the same. Just like how synthetic vitamin is the same as naturally extracted vitamin. It is the same chemcial formula. I laugh at the fools who think they are not

After a few pages of nothing but cynical one-liners in this thread, you're suddenly a lecturer and an expert on the subject? Right.

Considering neither of us is running a textile mill in his basement, here's an easier example:

Find a low-level item on the market that has comparable colour quality and characteristics as ultra-premium denim. Chroma, hue, value, fade, etc. It won't happen. Who are you going to go to? Wranglers? Sevens? Levis*?

*: Yes, I know Levis has select high-end stuff as well.

The better color is not caused by the dye, but process of the jean after putting the dye on them. Maybe this will make it clear for you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4rUb3chziY

All premium denim are hand "washed" afterwards for that special color quality, and cheap denim are mass produced by using enzyme that disgust cellulose to mimic the hand washed color. Basically you are paying premium price for labour. I collect RR jeans and i never pay over 150 for each pair (except few very rare ones). The MSRP is too high, but for under 150 they are definitely worth it.

[scoobydoo]

That video on the youtube link doesn't load... Btw, synthetic and natural vitamins are completely different.

[xinhang]

That video on the youtube link doesn't load... Btw, synthetic and natural vitamins are completely different.

just tried it and it works. They are definitely the same. Let's say vitamin D for example. It has a specific chemical structure that can be synthetically made or extracted, but no matter what it will be that chemical structure. If the chemical structure is different in synthetic one it will not bind to receptors and have any effect on the body. Any variation from that ONE specific chemical structure will not be vitamin D