Automotive

2017 Ford Focus Electric (base) $20,536 ON - YMMV

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  • Dec 14th, 2018 6:02 pm
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Jan 8, 2009
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Elec2016 wrote:
Dec 20th, 2017 10:07 am
Why is it a myth? It has been proven that people drive in L get more range at least based on GOM. If you don't have a FFE then how can you make that statement?
As I and others have said several times on this forum L is not meant for that purpose. Ford says this. The brake pedal can apply all the regenerative potential the car can offer in a progressive fashion. Driving in L all the time means you loose the "semi-coast" situation when you lift off the gas pedal and have only very mild regen. In L the car will apply maximum regen breaking unless pressing the accelerator overrides this and switches the motor to acceleration mode. So you are either accelerating or breaking heavily. This "binary" driving style is not the most efficient as there are losses involved in the regen process. So it is better to drive smoothly and minimise braking. In addition using L does not operate the brake lights so could cause issues for someone following.

I have a C-Max Energi which has the same L feature and operates in the same way when driving in EV mode. I find that it is difficult to gauge using L for example, coming to a stop at an intersection on a 90km/h road. Either L it is too heavy and requires taking it out of L / using the accelerator again or it is insufficient which means hitting the brake pedal as well. Better to brake gradually using the brake pedal and start braking earlier, so as to use regen braking and not the friction brakes. This is what the brake coach is for, to assist with getting a feel for how to achieve 100% regen. That means 100% of the energy the car is capable of capturing, not 100% of the energy of motion (due to system losses).

The way to get maximum range, if that is what you want, is to employ hypermiling techniques which many will be uncomfortable with as it involves using a mix of D, N and L.
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I drove for 9 months, and 13,000 km so far, 95% of the time in the city, using L.
It does take some time getting used to, but driving in L is definitely returns more recuperated energy in the battery.
Think about it, I accelerate using battery energy, then before next light/stop sign, I let go of accelerator, so by the time I
need to stop, I'm going 10-15 km/h and most of my spent energy goes back in the battery.
Regen gauge always shows 98% or better in recuperated energy.
This is how I was able to achieve consumption rate of 90 Wh/km in the city in the summer.
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xrvr wrote:
Dec 20th, 2017 2:10 pm
I drove for 9 months, and 13,000 km so far, 95% of the time in the city, using L.
It does take some time getting used to, but driving in L is definitely returns more recuperated energy in the battery.
Think about it, I accelerate using battery energy, then before next light/stop sign, I let go of accelerator, so by the time I
need to stop, I'm going 10-15 km/h and most of my spent energy goes back in the battery.
Regen gauge always shows 98% or better in recuperated energy.
This is how I was able to achieve consumption rate of 90 Wh/km in the city in the summer.
In that scenario of stop-start driving the difference won't be as great, and you will certainly do much better than last minute heavy braking in D. Whatever you are getting in L I think you could easily match or better driving in D. You are obviously getting very good performance in L and if that technique works for you then that's great.
"Never wrestle with a pig. You'll both get dirty, and the pig likes it"
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Apr 27, 2004
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Milton
xrvr wrote:
Dec 20th, 2017 2:10 pm
I drove for 9 months, and 13,000 km so far, 95% of the time in the city, using L.
It does take some time getting used to, but driving in L is definitely returns more recuperated energy in the battery.
Think about it, I accelerate using battery energy, then before next light/stop sign, I let go of accelerator, so by the time I
need to stop, I'm going 10-15 km/h and most of my spent energy goes back in the battery.
Regen gauge always shows 98% or better in recuperated energy.
This is how I was able to achieve consumption rate of 90 Wh/km in the city in the summer.
Martin (deal addict) wrote:
Dec 20th, 2017 4:14 pm
In that scenario of stop-start driving the difference won't be as great, and you will certainly do much better than last minute heavy braking in D. Whatever you are getting in L I think you could easily match or better driving in D. You are obviously getting very good performance in L and if that technique works for you then that's great.
I'm getting pretty much the same thing in D.... high 90s brake score and similar Wh/km.
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Jan 16, 2007
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I get it that if your driving mostly inner city streets and/or stop and go highway driving, then driving on L is probably a better option.
It's almost impossible to get high 90s break scores when your driving stop and go highway traffic on D, unless you drive really slow, in which case, people will cut in front of you.
I commute from the burbs and I use the HOV lanes daily, so hardly any stop and go traffic, therefore I drive mostly on D.
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NubNub wrote:
Dec 21st, 2017 12:43 am
It's almost impossible to get high 90s break scores when your driving stop and go highway traffic on D, unless you drive really slow, in which case, people will cut in front of you.
Not true. You don't have the hypermile to get high 90s brake score. You need to brake smoothly to get high scores. This is what you should be doing regardless of the type of vehicle you're driving. Doesn't matter highway or stop and go; consistent smooth braking will deliver high scores and optimal regen.
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Elec2016 wrote:
Dec 20th, 2017 10:07 am
Why is it a myth? It has been proven that people drive in L get more range at least based on GOM. If you don't have a FFE then how can you make that statement?
That's not proven at all, and Ford recommends D.
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neptune wrote:
Dec 21st, 2017 6:47 am
Not true. You don't have the hypermile to get high 90s brake score. You need to brake smoothly to get high scores. This is what you should be doing regardless of the type of vehicle you're driving. Doesn't matter highway or stop and go; consistent smooth braking will deliver high scores and optimal regen.
This exactly. I get close to or 100% and I didn't really change the way I braked; turns out I brake like an old man beforehand (or, I don't wait until the last minute and slam on the breaks until I nearly tap the car in front of me like the majority of knuckle draggers out there).
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May 20, 2017
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Konowl wrote:
Dec 21st, 2017 11:57 am
That's not proven at all, and Ford recommends D.
Tell me what your range is driving in D. For the users who mentioned that they get very good mileage they also mentioned they drive in L.
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Elec2016 wrote:
Dec 21st, 2017 2:18 pm
Tell me what your range is driving in D. For the users who mentioned that they get very good mileage they also mentioned they drive in L.
Their range is good probably not because they drive in L, but because they drive mostly in stop-and-go and/or slow traffic where you get a good range as it highly depends on driving speed and where using L might help them to slow down. This slow down can be achieved with pressing brake pedal (you do understand that pressing brakes does not engage breaking with pads right away, do you?) The biggest factor in range right now is how you use a heater.
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Mar 4, 2014
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Been driving a Volt since 2013 in L, learned a lot about how regen works from the extensive Chevy Volt Forum, FFE forum lacks though. Anyways, if nothing else driving in L is close to one pedal driving for me and feels so natural now (wish both cars had stronger regen).

Driving in L or D can have the same regen result, only difference in D is the brake pedal becomes more your regen pedal depending how smoothly you press it before friction brake engages. L for city, D for highway is how I like it.
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May 20, 2017
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seafish wrote:
Dec 21st, 2017 2:54 pm
Their range is good probably not because they drive in L, but because they drive mostly in stop-and-go and/or slow traffic where you get a good range as it highly depends on driving speed and where using L might help them to slow down. This slow down can be achieved with pressing brake pedal (you do understand that pressing brakes does not engage breaking with pads right away, do you?) The biggest factor in range right now is how you use a heater.
I drive in D all the time, and most of my driving is under 80km/hour speed with about half is stop and go. My braking scores are mostly 95+ though there are rare times when I have to brake harder. But my driving range is no where close to some of the owners who drive in L all the time. Just to give you couple of examples : 1.the best in summer I could do is close to 220kms, but someone was getting 280kms. 2. The best watt/km I could get was 115, and someone else was getting 90s. And both of the owners in the comparison drive in L.

The only reason I can think of is that I drive in D and just can't achieve those numbers. And I don't want to drive in L because I really don't have range problems and don't like the way how car slows down in L.
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Elec2016 wrote:
Dec 21st, 2017 2:18 pm
Tell me what your range is driving in D. For the users who mentioned that they get very good mileage they also mentioned they drive in L.
What do you mean post my range, that means jack. Range is a guesstimate of your previous driving. I get great mileage, anywhere from 190 in the summer on the backroads to 110 at minus 25 with the heat on doing 130. I have 11000 km on the car drove half of that with L on all the time until I RTFM then stopped and noticed no noticeable difference.
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Well, I have now received a response from Pascal Dupont on behalf of Dupont and Dupont Ford. It is now finally lawyer time I think. They have had enough rope to hang themselves looking at the emails I have to date. At no time did I order a 2017 model and therefore obviously they didn't try to source one. Its just another excuse. My pdf of the paperwork has a handwritten signed statement from them stating 2018 and the amount of deposit paid. This email does talk about the real reason, which is they claim to be losing money on the deal. If they are losing money it is due to their own financial incompetence, or communication problems with Ford Canada, or both. They quoted the price and I agreed to the full price and paid a down payment/deposit. Although he says in the email they will honor our agreement the rest of the email indicates to the contrary.

Here is the latest email:




"I will step in and intervene because you seem to want to lead the show a little too much. You must know we are an independently owned franchise and in the business to make money. We are NOT obliged to deliver this car to you but feel that we need to honor the agreement we had together as a simple gesture of principals. We are good business people and try to accommodate customers to the utmost of our capacities. You must understand that when you purchased your vehicle, we had not yet received our price sheets for the 2018. As you will see on your quote sheet (and I stress it is only a quote sheet, not a sales contract), it is clearly written that it is for a 2017. Since we couldn’t find a 2017, you knew that we needed to ORDER a 2018 for you. We cannot honor the same price on a 2018 because that’s just the way this business is, we have to live with regular price increases on vehicles. These are provable increases and we have the facts and proof to account for. We would like the opportunity to speak with you face to face or even over the phone but you only seem to communicate via email, maybe it’s a strategy of some kind, I don’t know. But the fact of the matter is that you have not once been in to our store in person and dealing like this makes it very difficult for us.

If you wish to take delivery of your Focus, it will be at the conditions presented to you. We will not LOSE money selling this car, nor any other, especially with the limited stock we are faced with.

Your decision to take...


Pascal Dupont

Le Groupe Dupont & Dupont

Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram Ford Honda"
Last edited by Martin (deal addict) on Dec 21st, 2017 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Never wrestle with a pig. You'll both get dirty, and the pig likes it"

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