Automotive

2018 Nissan Leaf Pre-order Q&A Specs

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  • Jul 19th, 2018 1:45 am
Deal Guru
Mar 22, 2004
10774 posts
1352 upvotes
RFD
alanbrenton wrote:
Nov 12th, 2017 7:52 pm
I respond to people quoting me with half truths lol. If you are not my boss, family or friend, I don't care what you say especially if they aren't particularly helpful. You are entitled to your opinions as I am to mine.
Same here, I don't care what you say as well, but the truth is the truth no matter how much it hurts.

Read this thread from actual Nissan Leaf owners about battery degradation examples from lack of Active Battery Thermal Management, http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24433 (Battery temp management for new leaf). If you lease it, I would see no problem, I would advise not to purchase.
Sr. Member
User avatar
Sep 8, 2014
616 posts
466 upvotes
Toronto, ON
Nissan is one of the VERY few EV makers to not use active thermal management.
Even my Smart ED has this on it's "stable NMC chemistry" as you put it...

Ford, Smart ED, Tesla, Hyundai, GM et all use thermally managed battery packs.

Nissan Leaf is well known to struggle in some world wide locations (not generally Canada) due to thermally caused degradation.
It's a fact. That's our point.

Users claiming simplicity of the pack design is a benefit is a sad fanboi statement and not backed by fact.
Deal Addict
Jul 4, 2004
4025 posts
431 upvotes
Ottawa
As a 1st gen Leaf owner, I have to agree that degradation of the Leaf is a very real issue. While it's not as much of an issue in Canada, I'd be surprised if there are many owners that don't have batteries with 5-10% degradation after even 1-2 years. It might not sound like that much of an issue but for a car that doesn't start off with that much range (and the posted range isn't more than you get at highway speeds and doesn't factor in the range you lose in the winter), it's a definite concern for owners that plan on keeping the car for several years (e.g. a 2010-2016 Leaf that has 135 kms of range but suffers 20% of degradation after 5 years, might only get you 70 kms in the winter ...)
Jr. Member
Aug 18, 2013
195 posts
70 upvotes
NCR
michelb wrote:
Nov 13th, 2017 3:44 pm
As a 1st gen Leaf owner, I have to agree that degradation of the Leaf is a very real issue. While it's not as much of an issue in Canada, I'd be surprised if there are many owners that don't have batteries with 5-10% degradation after even 1-2 years. It might not sound like that much of an issue but for a car that doesn't start off with that much range (and the posted range isn't more than you get at highway speeds and doesn't factor in the range you lose in the winter), it's a definite concern for owners that plan on keeping the car for several years (e.g. a 2010-2016 Leaf that has 135 kms of range but suffers 20% of degradation after 5 years, might only get you 70 kms in the winter ...)
I'm curious, what year is your Leaf and how has it fared in Ottawa? Would you buy another one (ie. the new Leaf?)
Deal Guru
Mar 22, 2004
10774 posts
1352 upvotes
RFD
Thanks for your input as an owner and not being afraid of sharing your thoughts/truth to potential Leaf owners.
michelb wrote:
Nov 13th, 2017 3:44 pm
As a 1st gen Leaf owner, I have to agree that degradation of the Leaf is a very real issue. While it's not as much of an issue in Canada, I'd be surprised if there are many owners that don't have batteries with 5-10% degradation after even 1-2 years. It might not sound like that much of an issue but for a car that doesn't start off with that much range (and the posted range isn't more than you get at highway speeds and doesn't factor in the range you lose in the winter), it's a definite concern for owners that plan on keeping the car for several years (e.g. a 2010-2016 Leaf that has 135 kms of range but suffers 20% of degradation after 5 years, might only get you 70 kms in the winter ...)
Deal Expert
User avatar
Apr 21, 2004
44741 posts
11494 upvotes
michelb wrote:
Nov 13th, 2017 3:44 pm
As a 1st gen Leaf owner, I have to agree that degradation of the Leaf is a very real issue. While it's not as much of an issue in Canada, I'd be surprised if there are many owners that don't have batteries with 5-10% degradation after even 1-2 years. It might not sound like that much of an issue but for a car that doesn't start off with that much range (and the posted range isn't more than you get at highway speeds and doesn't factor in the range you lose in the winter), it's a definite concern for owners that plan on keeping the car for several years (e.g. a 2010-2016 Leaf that has 135 kms of range but suffers 20% of degradation after 5 years, might only get you 70 kms in the winter ...)
Over at a Leaf forum, people said after the class action suit, Nissan offered the 70% capacity warranty and for many (after lawsuit) offered to replace the battery for a measly $2k.

Is there nothing similar offered here in Canada? I guess it's too bad your battery will not degrade to the point that it will be replaced because it's cooler here in Ontario.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Feb 28, 2008
1237 posts
288 upvotes
One of RFD member in Ontario also own a 1st gen Leaf and he doesn't have abnormal battery degradation.

I am down 5% after 3.5 years and 81,000km, should be good for 15 years or more considering degradation is basically a linear process.

https://forums.redflagdeals.com/hyundai ... #p28308435
Deal Addict
Jul 4, 2004
4025 posts
431 upvotes
Ottawa
bose wrote:
Nov 13th, 2017 5:39 pm
One of RFD member in Ontario also own a 1st gen Leaf and he doesn't have abnormal battery degradation.

I am down 5% after 3.5 years and 81,000km, should be good for 15 years or more considering degradation is basically a linear process.

hyundai-ont-hyundai-ioniq-se-electric-2 ... #p28308435
FWIW, my 2015 Leaf was originally from NJ (not exactly super hot climate and no DCQC) until I imported it to Canada last year. According to LeafSpy (not exactly super reliable but it appears to be the best tool available), after 3 years it's at 88% (I haven't checked since this summer). It's not terrible but I typically keep my cars for about 10 years and at this rate, I'll be down to about 70% by then. (although no one knows if the degradation is linear or not). Depending on the usage, that might be too much degradation (e.g. this weekend we visited a friend that's about 80 highway kms away round trip and it was quite cold so we used the heater. The return trip took about 75% of the battery so with a 20% degradation, that's a borderline trip, 30% degradation and you don't make it back ...)
Sr. Member
User avatar
Sep 8, 2014
616 posts
466 upvotes
Toronto, ON
5% down is pretty good, better than other Leaf owners I've talked to first hand.

Comparisons:

2013 Smart ED (thousands cheaper than Leaf) had a thermally managed battery pack and measured 99+% of original capacity after 3.5 years. Tesla S 85 is 97+% of original capacity after 4.5 years and 100,000 km.
Deal Addict
Jul 4, 2004
4025 posts
431 upvotes
Ottawa
xxboarderxx wrote:
Nov 13th, 2017 5:08 pm
I'm curious, what year is your Leaf and how has it fared in Ottawa? Would you buy another one (ie. the new Leaf?)
I have a 2015 SV (more efficient heater but only down to about -10C). I purchased it used from the US last year so don't know much about it's history but it was registered in NJ which isn't particularly warm and it doesn't have DCQC so any degradation isn't from that. Personally, I really do like the car (I love that it's so quiet and not having to pay for gas (I don't pay very close attention to the bill but I'm guessing my hydro might have gone up about $20/month - I had been using about $150/gas per month in a Highlander Hybrid) and it suits my usage well but we do have a Toyota Sienna as well so the Leaf is only for in-town drives. Until recently I was commuting almost 70 kms daily but now my commute is only about 25 kms). Also I do have access to a charging station at my old location and at my new one so range to commute is not an issue. I do find the reliability of Nissan inferior to Toyota (although truth be told, I haven't had much to fix on the Nissan but it just seems less reliable) but that wouldn't stop me from getting an 18 (I'm tempted to get one but it really doesn't make sense for me).

Two factors that really affect the range are speed you drive at (my commute is mostly highway which does chew up some range) and outside temperature. In the past month, my range appears to have dropped about 20-25% (and it isn't that cold yet). I was at close to 8 km/KWh and now I'm under 6 km/KWh. Although I did have it last winter, I didn't pay that close attention to the range reduction when it got very cold (since I had the charging station at work) but I don't think it was ever more than about 30%.
Sr. Member
Feb 6, 2017
603 posts
278 upvotes
This live stream just finished . He talks about the lack of TMS on the Leaf which is swaying a lot of buyers from taking the plunge this year. Alex agrees that this is a major concern for the battery life.

If the 2019 gets 220 miles with TMS, I am going to get it if I haven't already gotten the Chevy Bolt before that time lol.

Jr. Member
Aug 18, 2013
195 posts
70 upvotes
NCR
radeonboy wrote:
Nov 13th, 2017 10:37 pm
_20171113_223445.JPG

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... s-compared

Image
Thanks for sharing this. 8 year 70k seems to be the standard. If the Nissan thinks they can provide that warranty without TMS, then I'm not worried. I also live in Canada so no heat issues like in AZ or NV. Even if capacity is reduced to around 70% after 8 years, it should have a range of around 170 km. After that, if you really want a new battery, there's always the opportunity to replace it. I banking in 10 years time, replacement batteries will be a lot cheaper and I will just pass the car to my kids.

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