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[2024 CODE UPDATE] Ask me anything about home electrical requirements, electrical code, wiring, devices

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Deal Addict
Feb 3, 2006
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ChicoQuente wrote: If I am understanding you correctly I'm going to go out on a limb and say you know very little about electrical. As I said before you just need to strip the wire back a little more and put both ends under the plates on your new switch. 2 wires under a terminal is essentially the exact same thing as a continuous piece of wire.

I don't mean to be rude but what you are explaining is such a basic electrical question that I feel maybe you need some assistance in making this change. If you have any friends or family that ever do electrical work for themselves you may want to ask them for some help as someone may be able to explain to you better in person.
You're not being rude at all. I appreciate your help.
You're right, I need to get an electrician or a friend with more insight to help me.
Thanks
Sr. Member
Dec 12, 2007
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Toronto
Have a question on GFCI outlets. Currently none of my kitchen outlets have GFCI. Is it required ?
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Oct 26, 2003
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phoenix_bladen wrote: Have a question on GFCI outlets. Currently none of my kitchen outlets have GFCI. Is it required ?
you are not required to update your house every time a new code book comes out.
Sr. Member
Dec 9, 2013
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divx wrote: you are not required to update your house every time a new code book comes out.
Depends on the purpose. If he's getting an ESA general inspection, then they will ask to change them to GFCI's.
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Jun 21, 2003
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phoenix_bladen wrote: Have a question on GFCI outlets. Currently none of my kitchen outlets have GFCI. Is it required ?
Are any of them 20A T-Slot receptacles within 1.5M of the sink? I assume some must be but those are the only ones that must be GFCI. If they are 15A split receptacles (fed from a 15A double pole breaker) they don't need to be GFCI unless you do any work that affects them.
miscbrah1 wrote: Depends on the purpose. If he's getting an ESA general inspection, then they will ask to change them to GFCI's.
If you are not doing any work that affects the specific receptacles they shouldn't be asking them to be changed. As long as they meet the code at the time they were installed they are grandfathered unless you do work like relocating them. An inspector isn't going to force someone with 15A split receptacles to update to GFCI as that is an expensive breaker and not required to be done for no reason.
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Dec 9, 2013
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Toronto
ChicoQuente wrote: Are any of them 20A T-Slot receptacles within 1.5M of the sink? I assume some must be but those are the only ones that must be GFCI. If they are 15A split receptacles (fed from a 15A double pole breaker) they don't need to be GFCI unless you do any work that affects them.
If you are not doing any work that affects the specific receptacles they shouldn't be asking them to be changed. As long as they meet the code at the time they were installed they are grandfathered unless you do work like relocating them. An inspector isn't going to force someone with 15A split receptacles to update to GFCI as that is an expensive breaker and not required to be done for no reason.
If you get an Esa inspection, an Esa inspector would request that, even if you aren't doing any work. Whether you request an Esa general inspection due to retrofitting a basement apartment or for insurances purposes, it does not matter if you want the ElecCheck certificate. They can even tell you the replace the mast at a 3k+ cost, and you have no choice.
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Dec 12, 2007
978 posts
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Toronto
ChicoQuente wrote: Are any of them 20A T-Slot receptacles within 1.5M of the sink? I assume some must be but those are the only ones that must be GFCI. If they are 15A split receptacles (fed from a 15A double pole breaker) they don't need to be GFCI unless you do any work that affects them.
If you are not doing any work that affects the specific receptacles they shouldn't be asking them to be changed. As long as they meet the code at the time they were installed they are grandfathered unless you do work like relocating them. An inspector isn't going to force someone with 15A split receptacles to update to GFCI as that is an expensive breaker and not required to be done for no reason.
miscbrah1 wrote: If you get an Esa inspection, an Esa inspector would request that, even if you aren't doing any work. Whether you request an Esa general inspection due to retrofitting a basement apartment or for insurances purposes, it does not matter if you want the ElecCheck certificate. They can even tell you the replace the mast at a 3k+ cost, and you have no choice.
Yes I believe one receptacle is 1.5m from the sink. But I don’t think it’s close enough where i may splash water to it. No I dont think I have split 15a receptacles. I have two 20amp but does not look like they have GFCI and also it seems the previous owner changed one of the outlets to a 15 amp with 2 USB. I’m wondering if that 3rd outlet used to be the GFCI and he just took that out instead?

No I am not getting an ESA inspection, I am simply wanting to replace the old working outlet to a decora style one. Since I am doing this update, I am just wondering if it makes sense to make it GFCI.
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Dec 12, 2007
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divx wrote: you are not required to update your house every time a new code book comes out.
Thanks good to know
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Jun 21, 2003
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phoenix_bladen wrote: Yes I believe one receptacle is 1.5m from the sink. But I don’t think it’s close enough where i may splash water to it. No I dont think I have split 15a receptacles. I have two 20amp but does not look like they have GFCI and also it seems the previous owner changed one of the outlets to a 15 amp with 2 USB. I’m wondering if that 3rd outlet used to be the GFCI and he just took that out instead?

No I am not getting an ESA inspection, I am simply wanting to replace the old working outlet to a decora style one. Since I am doing this update, I am just wondering if it makes sense to make it GFCI.
The 15A USB receptacle is not to code on a kitchen counter or island. 15A receptacles must be split receptacles (15A double pole breaker with 14/3AWG wire) which can not be done with USB receptacles (at least with any that I have ever seen). To have USB receptacles in the kitchen they must be a 20A USB receptacle fed from a 20A breaker with 12AWG wire.

EDIT: 2 other things I just thought about. Is that USB receptacle fed from a 20A breaker? If so that is definitely not acceptable as the receptacle is only rated for 15A but the breaker is for 20A. You can't have a device on a breaker with a higher rating than the device. An appliance could maintain drawing 16A on that 15A receptacle due to the 20A breaker. You should definitely swap this out to a proper receotae.

Also, if you're already planning to swap a receptacle out to decora why not swap out the receptacle that is not GFI but within 1.5M of sink? It's not much work or cost and makes sense to do.
Last edited by ChicoQuente on Jan 5th, 2019 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sr. Member
Dec 12, 2007
978 posts
453 upvotes
Toronto
ChicoQuente wrote: The 15A USB receptacle is not to code on a kitchen counter or island. 15A receptacles must be split receptacles (15A double pole breaker with 14/3AWG wire) which can not be done with USB receptacles (at least with any that I have ever seen). To have USB receptacles in the kitchen they must be a 20A USB receptacle fed from a 20A breaker with 12AWG wire.
Thank you for your feedback.

I plan to relocate that USB and do the GFCI 20amp, it was setup incorrectly by the previous owner.

I will take note of that!
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Oct 26, 2003
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ChicoQuente wrote: The 15A USB receptacle is not to code on a kitchen counter or island. 15A receptacles must be split receptacles (15A double pole breaker with 14/3AWG wire) which can not be done with USB receptacles (at least with any that I have ever seen). To have USB receptacles in the kitchen they must be a 20A USB receptacle fed from a 20A breaker with 12AWG wire.

EDIT: 2 other things I just thought about. Is that USB receptacle fed from a 20A breaker? If so that is definitely not acceptable as the receptacle is only rated for 15A but the breaker is for 20A. You can't have a device on a breaker with a higher rating than the device. An appliance could maintain drawing 16A on that 15A receptacle due to the 20A breaker. You should definitely swap this out to a proper receotae.

Also, if you're already planning to swap a receptacle out to decora why not swap out the receptacle that is not GFI but within 1.5M of sink? It's not much work or cost and makes sense to do.
Normally yes, but ESA have published bulletin that allows 15A split to be changed to 15A GFCI for this specific case. So what he can do is to put the new GFCI on separate circuits, since he is reusing the split 15A circuit.
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Mar 7, 2011
3744 posts
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Vancouver
fogo wrote: You're not being rude at all. I appreciate your help.
You're right, I need to get an electrician or a friend with more insight to help me.
Thanks
The wire that goes to your first switch (the one on the left) is actually your home run that brings power to the box from the panel. Disconnect it from that switch and just run 2 separate wires to each of the switches, using a wire nut to hold the 3 loose ends together. This way you don't get scared next time some wire breaks again :)
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May 8, 2008
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hi divx, how can i tell if the LED potlights I have are dimmable? and how can I tell if the fixture is dimmable as well?
thanks!
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Jun 21, 2003
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farkaland wrote: hi divx, how can i tell if the LED potlights I have are dimmable? and how can I tell if the fixture is dimmable as well?
thanks!
Are all of your potlights and fixtures ones that have bulbs in them? If so, it is the bulb itself you want to check to find out if it is dimmable and not the fixture. In most cases the bulb is what matters. If however you have something like a slim LED potlight or another LED integrated fixture then you want to look in to the fixture. In that case you should get the model number of the light and look it up, or share here and we can help you figure that out.
Newbie
Apr 12, 2007
7 posts
Hi, I have to build new walls (as it's shown in the picture) and two receptacles become unaccessible located in "dead space".
The problem is two other receptacles are connected to "closed" once. Do I need to rewire and connect accessible receptacles
directly to the panel (that is hard as old walls are finished) or can leave non-accessible receptacles ASIS?
Will it be accepted by ESA inspector? Thank you for your advice.
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Mar 23, 2008
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Silen wrote: Hi, I have to build new walls (as it's shown in the picture) and two receptacles become unaccessible located in "dead space".
The problem is two other receptacles are connected to "closed" once. Do I need to rewire and connect accessible receptacles
directly to the panel (that is hard as old walls are finished) or can leave non-accessible receptacles ASIS?
Will it be accepted by ESA inspector? Thank you for your advice.
I don't know that they'll like 2 outlets in that "dead space", but you may also have issues with having a wall with no outlets. Code requires outlets every so often.

C
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Jun 21, 2003
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Silen wrote: Hi, I have to build new walls (as it's shown in the picture) and two receptacles become unaccessible located in "dead space".
The problem is two other receptacles are connected to "closed" once. Do I need to rewire and connect accessible receptacles
directly to the panel (that is hard as old walls are finished) or can leave non-accessible receptacles ASIS?
Will it be accepted by ESA inspector? Thank you for your advice.
You can not have buried junction boxes. Those outlets can not stay as is. Can you not disconnect the wires and move the receptacles to the new wall?

EDIT: If the wall is 900mm or greater in length it will require receptacles on it. Even that end piece will need it if it exceeds 900mm
Last edited by ChicoQuente on Jan 7th, 2019 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Newbie
Apr 12, 2007
7 posts
CNeufeld wrote: I don't know that they'll like 2 outlets in that "dead space", but you may also have issues with having a wall with no outlets. Code requires outlets every so often.
Thanks, I'm going to set up outlets on the new wall and connect them separately to the panel. It looks like I have to disconnect two buried outlets and wire rest to the panel.
Newbie
Jan 11, 2019
3 posts
Hi,

I am getting ready to finish my basement and have a question about receptacle placement at the bottom of the stairs.
The stairs enter the basement along the foundation wall and the wall continues about 5 feet to the corner, then there is an 8 foot wall running perpendicular. Is the 5 foot wall considered use-able wall space and do I need to include it in my calculations for receptacles (install 2 receptacles over the total length of 13 ft), or can i simply install 1 receptacle in the 8 foot wall?

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