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[2018 UPDATE] Ask me anything about home electrical requirements, electrical code, wiring, devices

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  • Dec 14th, 2017 12:13 am
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Deal Addict
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Jan 6, 2002
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Need some guidance.. EDIT: laughs and mockery also accepted with good cheer.

Am renoing my upstairs floors and there was some seemingly dead knob/tube wiring in the floor (there were existing snips in some of it.)

I was cleaning up the wires/tubes in prep for joist blocking/etc. Snip. Sparky-spark and out goes the room light. I should've checked with a circuit tester but FFS the wires were already cut elsewhere!!

The circuit is modern up to the light switch, and then presumably feeds an old hot K&T loop that used to go through the floor for some reason -- my guess is it ran off the same circuit as the living room lights and someone else's reno cut out the living room lights (now on modern circuit) and tied the bedroom light K&T into a new circuit fed up to the bedroom switch (two outlets were added on the circuit as well.)

The ceiling light is in a very cramped attic that maybe an anorexic midget could work in. Not 300lb me. So what are my options, really?

1) I can probably splice the wire I snipped back together in a junction box and expose it in the ceiling below.
2) Just get rid of the lighting circuit for now and run a new wall sconce above the switch, and "eventually" replace the light circuit when I next do the roof
3) Hire an anorexic midget electrician and eat the cost?
4) Other suggestions?
I've got a pretty good friend who's seen me at my worst.
He don't care if I'm a blessing or a curse,
But he always shows up when the chips are down.
That's the kind of friend I like to be around.
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Mar 23, 2008
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Aren't you getting a permit and inspection? If so, your only option is #3, I believe. Anything you touch has to be brought up to current code.

C
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CNeufeld wrote:
Nov 23rd, 2017 2:26 pm
Aren't you getting a permit and inspection? If so, your only option is #3, I believe. Anything you touch has to be brought up to current code.

C
Was just cleaning up junk in the joist gap, not "intended" to work on electrical. :|

Image

* The branch leading to the bottom of the picture was already snipped
* There's a K&T splice where highlighted in the picture
* As soon as I snipped beyond the splice, the light went out
* The circuit that powers the light powers the plug as well, which is still active -- hence it's just the loop from the light switch that's affected.

I think I will just remove the lighting circuit for now.
Last edited by hoob on Nov 23rd, 2017 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I've got a pretty good friend who's seen me at my worst.
He don't care if I'm a blessing or a curse,
But he always shows up when the chips are down.
That's the kind of friend I like to be around.
Deal Addict
Sep 11, 2006
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Toronto
hoob wrote:
Nov 23rd, 2017 2:28 pm
Was just cleaning up junk in the joist gap, not "intended" to work on electrical. :|



* The branch leading to the bottom of the picture was already snipped
* There's a K&T splits where highlighted in the picture
* As soon as I snipped beyond the splice, the light went out
* The circuit that powers the light powers the plug as well, which is still active -- hence it's just the loop from the light switch that's affected.

I think I will just remove the lighting circuit for now.
If it were my house, I'd remove any knob and tube wiring that was still active. You really should get a permit at this point.
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DIrty-D wrote:
Nov 23rd, 2017 2:36 pm
If it were my house, I'd remove any knob and tube wiring that was still active. You really should get a permit at this point.
That bedroom light is literally the last circuit I had not directly seen with my own eyes so I know it's the last K&T active in the house. Hence for now just planning on disconnecting/removing at the switch and removing the wires as visible. I will eventually replace the wiring for the overhead light and reactivate it (permit at that time) once I have access up there from the roof.
I've got a pretty good friend who's seen me at my worst.
He don't care if I'm a blessing or a curse,
But he always shows up when the chips are down.
That's the kind of friend I like to be around.
Member
Jul 2, 2013
268 posts
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Newmarket
Can someone direct me to the code that states we cannot use 14/2 or 12/2 romex/bx to power 240v supply? I always thought it was fine to do so by taping the white wire with black tape but apparently this is not allowed and will fail inspection.
I don't want to have to buy a roll of red 12/2 just for a heating circuit if I don't have to.
[OP]
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Oct 26, 2003
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lehmanr wrote:
Nov 25th, 2017 3:43 pm
Can someone direct me to the code that states we cannot use 14/2 or 12/2 romex/bx to power 240v supply? I always thought it was fine to do so by taping the white wire with black tape but apparently this is not allowed and will fail inspection.
I don't want to have to buy a roll of red 12/2 just for a heating circuit if I don't have to.
did someone tell you not to? i don't see why you can't tape the white to use as hot.
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Jan 6, 2006
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Sbould the reading be this high? Ita taken from the outside of an electric thermostat. Before it was only 2 bars with the analog thermostat.
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Jul 4, 2004
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lehmanr wrote:
Nov 25th, 2017 3:43 pm
Can someone direct me to the code that states we cannot use 14/2 or 12/2 romex/bx to power 240v supply? I always thought it was fine to do so by taping the white wire with black tape but apparently this is not allowed and will fail inspection.
I don't want to have to buy a roll of red 12/2 just for a heating circuit if I don't have to.
Who told you it'll fail inspection? Taping wires happens all the time. TECK90 comes with a blue third conductor which has to be taped to white for typical 240v use. ....etc.

The same white jacket 14/2 NMD90 that you use for everything else is extensively used for 240v heating circuits just fine.
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Phat_cow wrote:
Nov 25th, 2017 11:42 pm
Sbould the reading be this high? Ita taken from the outside of an electric thermostat. Before it was only 2 bars with the analog thermostat.
NCV is not a precision tool so doesn't matter.
Member
Jul 2, 2013
268 posts
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Newmarket
divx wrote:
Nov 25th, 2017 3:59 pm

did someone tell you not to? i don't see why you can't tape the white to use as hot.
Drew_W wrote:
Nov 26th, 2017 11:59 am
Who told you it'll fail inspection? Taping wires happens all the time. TECK90 comes with a blue third conductor which has to be taped to white for typical 240v use. ....etc.

The same white jacket 14/2 NMD90 that you use for everything else is extensively used for 240v heating circuits just fine.
Electrician buddy of mine said taping the white wire black in 12/2 is not allowed and that I have to use red romex with a red and black. It's for a 20 amp garage heater circuit I am installing.
Last edited by lehmanr on Nov 27th, 2017 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jul 23, 2004
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lehmanr wrote:
Nov 27th, 2017 9:27 am
Electrician buddy of mine said taping the white wire black in 14/2 is not allowed and that I have to use red romex with a red and black. It's for a 20 amp garage heater circuit I am installing.
14/2 is only rated for 15 amps.
If the color thing worries you, just buy a small pack of red 12/2 for that circuit.
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Jul 2, 2013
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Newmarket
AMD wrote:
Nov 27th, 2017 11:17 am
14/2 is only rated for 15 amps.
If the color thing worries you, just buy a small pack of red 12/2 for that circuit.
I'm using 12/2, I fixed my post. It does not worry me but I'm trying to avoid buying the same wire in a different color if I don't have to. it does not worry me if it's code compiant, hence why I am asking in this thread.
[OP]
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Oct 26, 2003
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lehmanr wrote:
Nov 27th, 2017 9:27 am
Electrician buddy of mine said taping the white wire black in 12/2 is not allowed and that I have to use red romex with a red and black. It's for a 20 amp garage heater circuit I am installing.
short answer is that it is not an code issue. long answer is that just because you can, doesn't mean you should. electrician is aware that over time the tape will fall off and when you work on it down the road, say 10 years from now, people may get hurt by using the white as neutral if they didn't know any better. on commercial projects, I do not allow white to be used for blacks, so if your electrician friend is used to do that sort of work, he would tell you not to do it.
Jr. Member
Jan 2, 2015
134 posts
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Hi!

My thermostat burnt this night.

I don't think it's because of the wiring as I think that in electricity, it's a working/not working thing so if the thermostat wasn't wired properly it would have never worked?

There's two baseboard heater of 1500W connected on this thermostat that can handle 4000W
Image

Does it look ok?

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