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[2018 UPDATE] Ask me anything about home electrical requirements, electrical code, wiring, devices

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  • Jan 20th, 2018 11:32 am
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Deal Addict
Sep 11, 2006
1095 posts
235 upvotes
Toronto
paintballdude05 wrote:
Jan 3rd, 2018 1:34 pm
I'm looking to add an apartment to my single family home (adding another unit). I'll be adding a 60A sub-panel to feed the new unit to conserve space in my existing 100A main. Do I need an electrician to do this work since it's an apartment or can I get away with pulling the permit myself since I'm the homeowner?

Thanks
Pretty sure the rule states "owner occupied" but I may be wrong. Depends which province I guess as well.
Newbie
Feb 28, 2016
58 posts
2 upvotes
I'm in Ontario. I've heard rumors that since it's more than a single family dwelling it turns commercial which means having an electrician do the work.
Deal Addict
Sep 11, 2006
1095 posts
235 upvotes
Toronto
paintballdude05 wrote:
Jan 3rd, 2018 2:52 pm
I'm in Ontario. I've heard rumors that since it's more than a single family dwelling it turns commercial which means having an electrician do the work.
Its not a rumor. You run into wsib issues and such. Who gets sued if a fire happens is basically what it comes down to.
Deal Fanatic
Jul 4, 2004
7265 posts
575 upvotes
Toronto
bpcrally wrote:
Jan 3rd, 2018 12:29 pm
Darn. Ok thank you!
You should be shopping at an electrical supplier for your trimout supplies.

GFCIs (15 and 20A) should be under $15 each. 10pk of receptacles (TR) around $10. 20A receptacles are around $2.50. 2way switches around $1.25 ea, 3 way switches around $1.75 ea. Under $20 for USB receptacles. Wallplates with screws, decora, around 30 cents each, screwless (i.e. Cooper) around $1.50 ea, for single gang. Breakers will be significantly less than HD, or if you are close to the border go get them from HD USA (or from Amazon).

Etc....
Deal Fanatic
Jul 4, 2004
7265 posts
575 upvotes
Toronto
dirtmover wrote:
Jan 3rd, 2018 1:08 pm
Oh dear, yet another home inspector that doesn't know what he's doing :(
Sigh. It's not like this stuff is rocket science. Wait until he finds out I have a 125A rated subpanel in my garage, fed only with 50A. I'm sure I'd have to "sync that up" too based on his report. *eye roll*
Sr. Member
User avatar
Oct 24, 2008
707 posts
265 upvotes
Drew_W wrote:
Jan 4th, 2018 11:39 am
You should be shopping at an electrical supplier for your trimout supplies.

GFCIs (15 and 20A) should be under $15 each. 10pk of receptacles (TR) around $10. 20A receptacles are around $2.50. 2way switches around $1.25 ea, 3 way switches around $1.75 ea. Under $20 for USB receptacles. Wallplates with screws, decora, around 30 cents each, screwless (i.e. Cooper) around $1.50 ea, for single gang. Breakers will be significantly less than HD, or if you are close to the border go get them from HD USA (or from Amazon).

Etc....
Thanks for the heads-up. I'll shop around. I'm not in a rush to get these now anyways. Still lots more work to do on the basement
Newbie
Feb 28, 2016
58 posts
2 upvotes
DIrty-D wrote:
Jan 3rd, 2018 3:17 pm
Its not a rumor. You run into wsib issues and such. Who gets sued if a fire happens is basically what it comes down to.
WSIB shouldn't be an issue as this pertains to accidents on the job. I can understand the second part, who is liable in case of a defect in the installation. In theory though, the installation shouldn't be an issue if inspected correctly. I'd say I'm pretty proficient at wiring and electrical, I'd actually enjoy doing the work. I don't want to hire somebody to do the work but might have to.
Newbie
Jan 6, 2018
3 posts
Kelowna, BC
Hi Folks,

I'm trying to plan rewiring my detached shop with 240V, enough juice to feed a welder (~approx 30A max inrush current) and a compressor, and a subpanel box to lay power on dedicated circuits thorough the backyard. I was thinking I would have to re-wire the whole thing, but I got pleasantly surprised tonight to see some beefy wires going in the conduit. Unfortunately, no marking is clearly visible, and the shop is too cluttered atm to access the wiring. Here is a picture of the junction box:

Image

Could anyone, by any chance identify these wire ? Incoming wires from the main panel are about 4.24mm OD, outgoing wires to the shop are about 5.6mm OD. I'd assume 10AWG incoming, and 8AWG outgoing. Any opinions ?
Deal Addict
User avatar
Dec 12, 2006
4121 posts
422 upvotes
Barrys Bay
Hi,

Living on Ontario, is it code to have a double pole line voltage thermostat in master/main bedroom? as other bedroom just has single pole line voltage thermostat.

Looking at replacing thermostat with a programmable one, and not many companies make a programmable double pole thermostat ( AUBE does ) that we like.

I am very competent with wiring, and the double pole is wired both L1 and neutral from heaters on load wires and L1 and neutral on from power. Can I not just connect( yes power off circuit ) one say L1 load wire to L1 power wire, and then use a single pole thermostat and join neutral wires to one lead and other neutral to other lead?


Yes I know double pole turns off power to heaters, but in winter you even want rooms kept to minimum heat ( aka 15-18 degrees ) so power is always on anyways. And in summer heater breakers are turned off.

So is it code, or am I missing something and reasoning behind it?

Thanks...
Deal Addict
Sep 11, 2006
1095 posts
235 upvotes
Toronto
MathieuN501027 wrote:
Jan 8th, 2018 12:57 am
Hi Folks,

I'm trying to plan rewiring my detached shop with 240V, enough juice to feed a welder (~approx 30A max inrush current) and a compressor, and a subpanel box to lay power on dedicated circuits thorough the backyard. I was thinking I would have to re-wire the whole thing, but I got pleasantly surprised tonight to see some beefy wires going in the conduit. Unfortunately, no marking is clearly visible, and the shop is too cluttered atm to access the wiring. Here is a picture of the junction box:


Could anyone, by any chance identify these wire ? Incoming wires from the main panel are about 4.24mm OD, outgoing wires to the shop are about 5.6mm OD. I'd assume 10AWG incoming, and 8AWG outgoing. Any opinions ?
Wrong size marrets, romex in conduit, romex coming through the back of that box without an approved connector? I'd personally be more concerned about fixing some wiring issues first, and then worry about your new circuits. Who knows what else is messed up solely based on this junction box.
Deal Addict
Mar 17, 2004
4699 posts
189 upvotes
Is this a terrible idea? So our second floor washroom is above our kitchen. It used to have a jaccuzi but we renovated so it's just a regular tub now. But we have left the wiring and the breaker for it in place. It's copper wiring that runs from the basement breaker up to the second floor. Now the wire is still accessible through the ceiling of the kitchen. I'm not sure how it runs inside the wall. Would it be a terrible/stupid idea to use a junction box to extend that wire 10-15 feet into elsewhere in the kitchen so I can have a dedicated breaker for an upright freezer?
Sr. Member
Feb 17, 2012
531 posts
83 upvotes
Toronto
I was wondering if anyone can help me out.

I moved into my home 5 years ago and noticed some weird electrical issues but never really payed too much attention to it until recently.

I have a computer which i mine Bitcoin/alt-coins with a 4 video card setup (a whole different topic) but when it's running the lights flicker. I have tried using different outlets and even an outlet that's close to the power panel that's a dedicated line. I even bought a good quality surge protector that delivers "clean" power and reduces "noise" nothing seems to have worked.

Couple of things I should mention.

The 100A Power panel was installed in 2011. It was inspected and passed by the ESA.

When bigger appliances turn on like the fridge or furnace the lights get BRIGHTER for a split second before returning to normal. Usually it's the opposite. The lights should dim when there is a power draw before returning to normal. Is that correct?

Not every light flickers but the one's that do are all different flavors. Incandescent, flurecent and hologen. Even the fridge light flickers sometimes.

The mining rig draws between 750w to 800w constantly and fluctuates in between there every few seconds (according to the wattage meter it's hooked up to.

My microwave came with the house but it's an older one and because I hardly ever use it I never bought a newer one. It's a 2500w Samsung. When it runs you can hear it start to decrease in power draw after the initial start up.

I plan on calling the ESA and asking for 2nd opinion since I really don't know if the ESA tag is even real!
Looks legit but you never know

I have tried troubleshooting and tried all sorts of scenereos with the computer. I have come to the conclusion that it is not the computer but rather somewhere on the panel. I have checked all wiring on the panel and all seems good.... I'm stumped....

I guess my question is if anyone can help suggest or even tell me what the problem might be. Thank you!!
Newbie
Jan 6, 2018
3 posts
Kelowna, BC
DIrty-D wrote:
Jan 9th, 2018 9:51 am
Wrong size marrets, romex in conduit, romex coming through the back of that box without an approved connector? I'd personally be more concerned about fixing some wiring issues first, and then worry about your new circuits. Who knows what else is messed up solely based on this junction box.
1) how can you know it's the wrong side marrets ? To do so, you'd need a good guess of the wire gauge, which was my original question (that you didn't answer).
2) there is no romex in the conduit (I presume the input romex going though the wall is in "conduit" for physical protection through the exterior wall and not completely enclosed in a raceway, which IIRC meets code).
3) legitimate remark, but in all likelyhood, the romex to the panel will be replaced, so really, it's irrelevant, as the junction box could be addressed the same way.
4) Compared to other outdoor outlet, this junction box seem to have been added afterward, but thanks to presume of the state of the installation with a single picture.

All in all, the whole reason behind my question was to plan for the re-wiring of this circuit but your attitude is more likely to make me delay that work than anything else. So really, you're not helping. [btw, your comment, and its patronizing tone does not make people feel welcome].
Newbie
Jan 9, 2018
1 posts
Hello,
I'm adding a new 40A circuit to my house for a new cooktop. The cooktop has only 2 conductors - black and red. I'm wondering if it's permissible to use 8/2 cable for this circuit (cheaper cable, easier to pull).
Or must I pull 8/3 cable in order to connect black to black and red to red, leaving the white conductor in the new 8/3 unused? I'm in Ontario.
Thanks for any help!
Deal Addict
Sep 11, 2006
1095 posts
235 upvotes
Toronto
MathieuN501027 wrote:
Jan 9th, 2018 9:34 pm
1) how can you know it's the wrong side marrets ? To do so, you'd need a good guess of the wire gauge, which was my original question (that you didn't answer).
2) there is no romex in the conduit (I presume the input romex going though the wall is in "conduit" for physical protection through the exterior wall and not completely enclosed in a raceway, which IIRC meets code).
3) legitimate remark, but in all likelyhood, the romex to the panel will be replaced, so really, it's irrelevant, as the junction box could be addressed the same way.
4) Compared to other outdoor outlet, this junction box seem to have been added afterward, but thanks to presume of the state of the installation with a single picture.

All in all, the whole reason behind my question was to plan for the re-wiring of this circuit but your attitude is more likely to make me delay that work than anything else. So really, you're not helping. [btw, your comment, and its patronizing tone does not make people feel welcome].
Hey buddy you need to relax. I'm not sure how you gauge peoples "online tone" but I was by no means trying to be patronizing. If you want a candy coated answer to your question, this probably is not the place.
You posted one picture and asked a very broad question that nobody can answer with the lack of information you provided, hence why you have not received any other replies. Those wire nuts are not approved for even 2x#10 wires so this is why I made that statement. If the conduit in your picture had proper wiring, 1 it would be marked and 2 it would not have a solid bare ground wire, hence my reasoning why "I THINK" it's a multi conductor cable in conduit which is a code violation "IIRC"...

The work needs to be inspected by your AHJ anyway so I was just trying to "warn" you. They would make you rip it all out if it's not to code and do it properly anyway.
Last edited by DIrty-D on Jan 10th, 2018 3:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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