340 Canadians soldiers killed on this day 62 year ago

[poedua]

well said, brother!

LOL !

[Wulf]

I just think not too many kids actually know much about D-Day these days - apart from what they see in movies.

Although that opening scene in Saving Private Ryan does give kids a pretty good idea of how those 340 Canadian 18 year old kids ( and older ) died so bravely 62 years ago today - June 6, 1944.

unbeleivable really.....not sure I could have done it as an 18 year old...ride a landing craft knowing as you ride in toward the beach for an hour or so you may be dead in a matter of seconds after you hit the beach from a hail of bullets

Good thread...
Not to take anything away from anyone that served in the landings, but the beach landings were a great success. Private Ryan dealt with the American landings at Omaha which were badly messed up for many reasons... lack of decisive air strikes, tanks not getting ashore etc. For landings on Juno beach , where the Canadians landed try reading 'Battle Diary from D-Day and Normandy to the Zuider Zee' by Charles Martin, this gentleman is from Mississauga and his description of the landing is pretty different from the Hollywood version. As I recall he said that the landing craft basically landed alone with several hundred yards between them and they fought ashore and inland in small groups.
I think it was Patton that said that 'all battle plans fall apart after first contact with the enemy' meaning after that its all about bravery of the individual foot soldier that decided the outcome.

[poedua]

Good thread...
Not to take anything away from anyone that served in the landings, but the beach landings were a great success. Private Ryan dealt with the American landings at Omaha which were badly messed up for many reasons... lack of decisive air strikes, tanks not getting ashore etc. For landings on Juno beach , where the Canadians landed try reading 'Battle Diary from D-Day and Normandy to the Zuider Zee' by Charles Martin, this gentleman is from Mississauga and his description of the landing is pretty different from the Hollywood version. As I recall he said that the landing craft basically landed alone with several hundred yards between them and they fought ashore and inland in small groups.
I think it was Patton that said that 'all battle plans fall apart after first contact with the enemy' meaning after that its all about bravery of the individual foot soldier that decided the outcome.

I understand the mess up at Omaha Beach as well ....they took the worst of it....I read about their landing from Ambrose's book ...another good read is the book The Bedford Boys on this too - it's about one small US town of only 3,000 people who sent 100 kids over and lost 19 kids within the first minutes of hitting the beach ! A great read.

My reference to Private Ryan was from the point of view that it gave a pretty good idea of what it was like to land and face a hail of bullets, bodies being blown apart, wounded men left stranded on the beach crying out for their mothers...very sobering stuff...and canadian kids faced that

[EchoAngel911]

god bless the soldiers who fought for our freedom

[Crotchety Old Man]

What is your opinion on the Canadians who died on D-Day ?

Deepest respect.

What is your opinion of Canada's role in WW2 ...i.e should we have joined in the fight agianst Hitler or not in your opinion ?

Yes. (It did wonders for the economy. Though this particular battle was, imho, a needless slaughter of front-line troops, poorly planned by back-line generals.)

[Crotchety Old Man]

If you dont' hold our WW1 & WW2 soldiers in high regard and can't give them the respect they deserve, at least respect the people who do and stay out of this thread.

You're questioning of my respect for Canada's soldiers is getting tiresome, Shaner. My respect takes the form of continuing their fight for freedom and the future of Canada through debating our nation's ideals.

If any future battle memorial thread is labelled "Strictly for memorial purposes only - no relevant parallels are to be drawn from the purpose of our fallen heroes' sacrifice - entomb their ideals in the past", then I will refrain from posting in it, because in my book, that type of thread is the ultimate disrespect.

[poedua]

Deepest respect.


Yes. (It did wonders for the economy. Though this particular battle was, imho, a needless slaughter of front-line troops, poorly planned by back-line generals.)

" War is mainly a catalogue of blunders "

~Winston Churchill

[Crotchety Old Man]

Using WW2 as political grounds to make your stance against Harper is pretty spineless and disgusting!
Way to honour those who died so you could have the freedom to make stupid comments like the one you just made.

Though I find it sad that I have to point it out to you, I'm waiting to see an apology from you for the above disrespectful statement. And please be aware - this apology is certainly not to me, but rather to our veterans and fallen Canadian soldiers, whose hard fought ideals you have sullied with your thoughtless words.

If you truly believe the essence of what you have written, you will publicly recant your slander of our heroic troops. If not, it becomes obvious that you are simply a poser intent on attempting to intimidate, to support your own implied political point of view.

[Peckerwood]

D-Day was not a blunder...it was a calculated risk, where the Alllies determined that they needed an immediate beach head to facilitate the further invasion of europe to press the Germans back.

Air power was not a superior force back then compared to what it is today...nor was it precise in support

Satellite overview was not available for up-to-the-minute information access

Information back then was more like up-to-the-week access...and was not entirely reliable at that.

They could not depend on heavy air support because it would give away their position...they were relying heavily on a ruse that they hoped Hitler would follow. Any other actions would have destroyed the effectiveness of that ruse and instead brought down the German armoured divisions down heavy upon them. So much for a beach head if that was to occur.

Heavy casualties were expected...they knew that they were going to have to punch through a fortified beach position...the one they took was one with some of the best advantages and best positional attack routes available with the least overt attack opportunites...Something that Hitler would have had in the rearward portion of his mind rather than the front of his mind. If they were to take the best beach head then Hitler would have been on them from the get-go.

something about the Art of War..."though efficient, appear to be inefficient; though effective apear to be ineffective...orthodoxy may win some battles, but unorthodoxy wins the war"

Everything about the planning of that attack screamed of stratgey and tactical guesswork.

And behold...it worked.

--------

I'll post this in honour of a relative who is buried in in Itay...killed by the Germans in WW 2 ( 1944 ) anyway.

My Grandfather was in Italy on D-day...Loyal Edmonton Regiment, 2nd Lieutenant John James Mackie;

[poedua]

D-Day was not a blunder...it was a calculated risk, where the Alllies determined that they needed an immediate beach head to facilitate the further invasion of europe to press the Germans back.

Air power was not a superior force back then compared to what it is today...nor was it precise in support

Satellite overview was not available for up-to-the-minute information access

Information back then was more like up-to-the-week access...and was not entirely reliable at that.

They could not depend on heavy air support because it would give away their position...they were relying heavily on a ruse that they hoped Hitler would follow. Any other actions would have destroyed the effectiveness of that ruse and instead brought down the German armoured divisions down heavy upon them. So much for a beach head if that was to occur.

Heavy casualties were expected...they knew that they were going to have to punch through a fortified beach position...the one they took was one with some of the best advantages and best positional attack routes available with the least overt attack opportunites...Something that Hitler would have had in the rearward portion of his mind rather than the front of his mind. If they were to take the best beach head then Hitler would have been on them from the get-go.

something about the Art of War..."though efficient, appear to be inefficient; though effective apear to be ineffective...orthodoxy may win some battles, but unorthodoxy wins the war"

Everything about the planning of that attack screamed of stratgey and tactical guesswork.

And behold...it worked.

--------



My Grandfather was in Italy on D-day...Loyal Edmonton Regiment, 2nd Lieutenant John James Mackie;

Good post.

My relative is buried near Ortona Ilaly. His brother is still alive and each Rememberance Day, it's as if his brother just died yesterday...very emotional stuff for him ( and us ) ...even 62 years later.

Althought I included the " blunder " quote, generally spoeaking I''d have to agree.....that quote was imore in response to Crotchety Old Man who said D-Day was " a needless slaughter " and " poorly planned ".

When ypu consider it was the largest naval armada invasion in history...the fact that they actually panned it and carried it out with virtully secrecy - suprising the Gerrmans - speaks for itself.

I think overall, more went " right " that day " then wrong ".

[FastFokker]

Using WW2 as political grounds to make your stance against Harper is pretty spineless and disgusting!
Way to honour those who died so you could have the freedom to make stupid comments like the one you just made.

Re-read your own quote above, and ask yourself how much you are respecting that particular hard-earned freedom.

Oh nice one!

It's absolutely true.. war, death and poverty all happened on behalf of Canada to keep our rights and freedoms, not to gain anything, but to keep what we had. As a democratic nation, we have the right to elect our own government, made of the people and by the people... from that we also have the rights and freedom to say what we want about that government.

Harper isn't SO bad (so far), but every person (at least those who vote in my opinion) have the right to dissent. Paid for by our nation and by our relatives in the face of adversity. If we wanted to be a conquered people, we should never have fought.. we are NOT a conquered people, so you cannot tell another to shut up in regards to their opinion on democratic politics.

Shame on Shaner!

[Shaner]

Oh nice one!

It's absolutely true.. war, death and poverty all happened on behalf of Canada to keep our rights and freedoms, not to gain anything, but to keep what we had. As a democratic nation, we have the right to elect our own government, made of the people and by the people... from that we also have the rights and freedom to say what we want about that government.

Harper isn't SO bad (so far), but every person (at least those who vote in my opinion) have the right to dissent. Paid for by our nation and by our relatives in the face of adversity. If we wanted to be a conquered people, we should never have fought.. we are NOT a conquered people, so you cannot tell another to shut up in regards to their opinion on democratic politics.

Shame on Shaner!

In case you missed it, I have a problem with what he is saying, not the fact that he is exercising his right to free speech. Just like you don't like my opinion, it doesn't mean you are telling me to shutup.
So unless you can point to a post of mine where I told him to shutup, your thread is pointless.

[Shaner]

Though I find it sad that I have to point it out to you, I'm waiting to see an apology from you for the above disrespectful statement. And please be aware - this apology is certainly not to me, but rather to our veterans and fallen Canadian soldiers, whose hard fought ideals you have sullied with your thoughtless words.

If you truly believe the essence of what you have written, you will publicly recant your slander of our heroic troops. If not, it becomes obvious that you are simply a poser intent on attempting to intimidate, to support your own implied political point of view.

Apology for what? For telling you not to use a WW2 thread to make a stance against Harper? That's exactly what you did.
In case you missed you, I'm not the only one who thinks what you said is wrong!

I haven't disrespected any fallen soldier in the history of RFD nor would I ever. I was trying to keep an important thread on topic and not let it spew off to anti-Harper comments.

You can continue to say what you want, but I'm done arguing with you in such an important thread like this. All we are doing is tarnishing it. Hopefully you see that so that this thread can get back on topic.

[Crotchety Old Man]

I knew it.