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Re: $5 Device Unlocks Car Doors

Posted: Oct 31st, 2013 11:12 am
by ES_Revenge
That's an RF jammer, the article talks about an EM device that can unlock doors. I'm guessing that such a device cannot work on all cars and only cars where a certain system/method is used in the RKE system. Notice how it doesn't work on the first car in the video (a Touareg or a Mazda CX-x?), but does work on the next car.

Re: $5 Device Unlocks Car Doors

Posted: Oct 31st, 2013 11:49 am
by koffey
Tornado F2 wrote: "He said according to the device’s manufacturer, at least 19 of the devices have been shipped to Winnipeg in the past three months."

Interesting that the manufacturer is willing to reveal the number of devices shipped to Winnipeg. That should help police figure out likely suspects. (Especially with the video). But assuming this device has a legitimate use, shouldn't the distributor be checking to ensure that only legitimate trustworthy people are receiving it?
Not sure how it would be a responsibility of the distributor if the product is legit. IE; I can run out and buy tons of home use products and make something deadly with it.

Re: $5 Device Unlocks Car Doors

Posted: Oct 31st, 2013 12:28 pm
by Tornado F2
koffey wrote: Not sure how it would be a responsibility of the distributor if the product is legit. IE; I can run out and buy tons of home use products and make something deadly with it.
I'm not sure exactly what this device is. But if it's an electronic lock opener then they really should be required to have safeguards wrt who gets their hands on it. If not, what's the point of having locks in the first place?

Re: $5 Device Unlocks Car Doors

Posted: Oct 31st, 2013 12:39 pm
by Tornado F2
aqnd wrote: While I see your point, that is a terrible example. As someone in the health information field, this kind of misinformation in the public is really disappointing, and probably explains why we are so very far behind in advancing in this area.
Your beloved 'low-tech' paper files are more secure?
When an EHR is stored, it's encrypted. If someone breaks the lock (computer password) they still need to decrypt the records with valid permissions and user accounts (no one has access to every record, or every field on a record). Break the lock on your filing cabinet, everything is there, in plain text.
Better yet, everything in an EHR has access logs - you know if, when, and by who that record was broken into.
A cabinet of paper, they probably don't even know everythg that was there, never mind what's missing, or if it was even accessed.
I'm glad to hear that you/your employer are taking security precautions, but can you guarantee that every medical facility in the country is taking similar precautions? If they are, why do we keep hearing about sensitive electronic data being lost on hard drives, laptops, etc? Also, perhaps you can tell me this: Why is an elderly friend, diagnosed as having plaque buildup in his arteries only a month ago, suddenly receiving unsolicited commercial mailings concerning that exact condition? Obviously our health information isn't nearly as secure as we (and you) would hope it is.

As for those paper files, I did specify locked cabinets. Sure somebody can perhaps break into them, but they would leave physical damage behind to show that a break-in had occurred. Electronic files, unless adequately secured, can be read/altered/tampered with, often without most people being aware they've been compromised.

Re: $5 Device Unlocks Car Doors

Posted: Oct 31st, 2013 12:50 pm
by Cough
Despite the hype there is NO evidence that this $5 device actually exists. Lots of effort with EMP generators cannot get the locks unlocked. Check out hackaday for discussion. if those guys can't do it, who can?
[QUOTE]Last week we caught wind of a piece from the Today Show that shows very technically minded thieves stealing cars with a small device. Cops don’t know how they’re doing it, and of course the Today show (and the Hackaday comments) were full of speculation. The top three theories for how these thieves are unlocking car doors are jamming a keyless entry’s ‘lock signal’, a radio transmitter to send an ‘unlock’ code, or a small EMP device touched to the passenger side door to make it unlock.

That last theory – using a small EMP device to unlock a car’s door – got the attention of someone who builds mini EMP devices and has used them to get credits on slot machines. He emailed us under a condition of anonymity, but he says it’s highly unlikely a mini EMP device would be able to activate the solenoid on a car door.

This anonymous electromagnetic wizard would like to open up a challenge to Hackaday readers, though: demonstrate a miniature EMP device able to unlock an unmodified car door, and you’ll earn the respect of high voltage tinkerers the world over. If you’re successful you could always sell your device to a few criminal interests, but let’s keep things above board here.

[/QUOTE]

Re: $5 Device Unlocks Car Doors

Posted: Oct 31st, 2013 12:52 pm
by aqnd
Tornado F2 wrote: I'm glad to hear that you/your employer are taking security precautions, but can you guarantee that every medical facility in the country is taking similar precautions? If they are, why do we keep hearing about sensitive electronic data being lost on hard drives, laptops, etc? Also, perhaps you can tell me this: Why is an elderly friend, diagnosed as having plaque buildup in his arteries only a month ago, suddenly receiving unsolicited commercial mailings concerning that exact condition? Obviously our health information isn't nearly as secure as we (and you) would hope it is.

As for those paper files, I did specify locked cabinets. Sure somebody can perhaps break into them, but they would leave physical damage behind to show that a break-in had occurred. Electronic files, unless adequately secured, can be read/altered/tampered with, often without most people being aware they've been compromised.
You talk of locked filing cabinets and then your analogy for electronic is a portable hard drive loaded with unencrypted data. Seriously?
I counter with the employee taking a box of files home in their car, which are also "lost".
People make mistakes, and are generally stupid. But those incidences arere not a fault of the technology, its the stupid people.

If you leave a cabinet or door or computer unlocked and things go missing, that has nothing to do with the technology, that's on you.
When used as intended, there is zero reason to not use EHR.
I know that's not the topic of this thread, so I won't respond again about this.

The technology in the car case is certainly to blame.

Re: $5 Device Unlocks Car Doors

Posted: Oct 31st, 2013 1:34 pm
by djemzine
Tried one of the methods (posted on the 2nd link) with the British guy. Didn't work. So may be for older cars with key fobs BUT no alarm system.

Re: $5 Device Unlocks Car Doors

Posted: Oct 31st, 2013 1:39 pm
by tkyoshi
djemzine wrote: Tried one of the methods (posted on the 2nd link) with the British guy. Didn't work. So may be for older cars with key fobs BUT no alarm system.
It's a silly video, he presses the button while the fob is off screen. Cell phones don't work in the same frequency range as Remote Keyless. Nor are they designed to capture and store frequency codes.

There's another video from awhile back with someone showing you can "unlock" the doors by using a tennis ball to blow air into the lock.

Mythbusters also did a segment on it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ1jfhaL3Ec

Re: $5 Device Unlocks Car Doors

Posted: Oct 31st, 2013 2:34 pm
by Tornado F2
aqnd wrote: I know that's not the topic of this thread, so I won't respond again about this.

The technology in the car case is certainly to blame.
That's good. I wasn't looking to debate it. But encrypted or not (and unless it's required by law, I'll bet many files aren't) hackers still seem to have ways of decrypting them.

Anyway, it was automotive technology that we were really talking about here. If a car has Bluetooth technology, does that open it up to external security threats? And will that become an ever greater concern as the electronics in our vehicles become more advanced? I would think so.

BTW, on the topic of EMP, it was discovered back in the 60s, when the US and others were still crazy enough to perform nuclear tests in the open atmosphere, that an EMP pulse could be generated that would fry electronics for miles around. Obviously that' was a concern then, and a far, far greater one now. It was said that Soviet equipment of the time was far less vulnerable to EMP because they still used comparatively primitive equipment (that still got the job done, mind). So there's definitely an argument for old-school, at least in certain critical applications.

Re: $5 Device Unlocks Car Doors

Posted: Oct 31st, 2013 2:42 pm
by ES_Revenge
tkyoshi wrote: It's a silly video, he presses the button while the fob is off screen. Cell phones don't work in the same frequency range as Remote Keyless. Nor are they designed to capture and store frequency codes.

There's another video from awhile back with someone showing you can "unlock" the doors by using a tennis ball to blow air into the lock.

Mythbusters also did a segment on it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ1jfhaL3Ec
Didn't watch the video but for some reason I have it in my head that old skool MBs with the vacuum actuated powerlocks would be susceptible to this.

Re: $5 Device Unlocks Car Doors

Posted: Nov 1st, 2013 8:20 pm
by spider
Passive door unlocked system can be hacked .

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2011 ... .html#more

Car is always sending a low powered signal waiting for FOB to approach car . Thief stands near car with wireless repeater between him and the FOB location (in house)

FOB now believes car is near and sends encrypted unlock command through the repeater back to the car... car then unlocks.

Re: $5 Device Unlocks Car Doors

Posted: Nov 1st, 2013 11:43 pm
by EPcjay
After market alarm might be a better deterrent?

Re: $5 Device Unlocks Car Doors

Posted: Nov 1st, 2013 11:46 pm
by Tornado F2
EPcjay wrote: After market alarm might be a better deterrent?
My car is protected by $400 Globali stickers. (That I neither requested nor was ever informed about - the stealership just slipped them in). I'm safe. I can't afford anything worth stealing to leave in my car. I was already robbed. :facepalm:

[IMG]http://www.cpkn.ca/sites/default/files/ ... bali_0.jpg[/IMG]

I hate these b-tards.

Re: $5 Device Unlocks Car Doors

Posted: Nov 2nd, 2013 7:03 am
by AudiDude
spider wrote: Passive door unlocked system can be hacked .

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2011 ... .html#more

Car is always sending a low powered signal waiting for FOB to approach car . Thief stands near car with wireless repeater between him and the FOB location (in house)

FOB now believes car is near and sends encrypted unlock command through the repeater back to the car... car then unlocks.
Re read that. If the FOB was in the house, the car can't read it. If you tried to extend the cars signal with an antenna, you still can't get it in the house. If you did get the door open, the FOB has to be in the car for it to start. If you try to yank open the door of an Audi with the FOB in your hand and someone else is touching any of the other doors, the door will not unlock. If you tell a person to open the door and you have the FOB they can open it, but you would have to be close enough to physically touch the car yourself.

Two days ago the car did not start immediately and I watched the key start flashing a red light as it talked to the car and then it started.

In any case, it isn't an easy task to pull off, and I think, you'd have to be near the person, as the key, at least my key, has to be really close to the car.

If anybody wonders what happens if you drive off without the key...

http://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/xj-x3 ... fob-59515/

Re: $5 Device Unlocks Car Doors

Posted: Nov 4th, 2013 7:21 am
by spider
This must be it. only $5

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/69764 ... odule.html

[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... Attack.jpg[/IMG]
AudiDude wrote: Re read that. If the FOB was in the house, the car can't read it. If you tried to extend the cars signal with an antenna, you still can't get it in the house.
The person with the antenna aimed at the owner of the key fob needs to get within 26 feet of the target.

This could be the entrance of the house.
AudiDude wrote: If you did get the door open, the FOB has to be in the car for it to start.
The article had nothing to do with stealing cars....the comfort access system was fooled into opening the door without a key in hand. Driving away without the key would not work.