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88℅ of manufacturing job loss since 2000 due to automation and technology

  • Last Updated:
  • Mar 20th, 2017 9:01 pm
Deal Fanatic
Jul 5, 2005
5052 posts
204 upvotes
Automation took yer jerbs!....errr...except we would have at least still had some high paying jobs had the factories not left for cheaper labour in foreign countries before the manufacturing process became more automated. Automation will prevent the manufacturing jobs from coming back but let's not pretend like our economy wasn't first hollowed out by large corporations and 3rd world countries with terrible human rights records.
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Apr 11, 2008
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hugh_da_man wrote:
Feb 9th, 2017 1:45 pm
Automation took yer jerbs!....errr...except we would have at least still had some high paying jobs had the factories not left for cheaper labour in foreign countries before the manufacturing process became more automated. Automation will prevent the manufacturing jobs from coming back but let's not pretend like our economy wasn't first hollowed out by large corporations and 3rd world countries with terrible human rights records.
It's because large corporations like Walmart that our inflation was extremely low and our investment return was extremely high. Good deal all around.
Newbie
Jan 17, 2017
18 posts
8 upvotes
Haha, don't worry about this.

Automation does not take jobs, it shifts jobs from one to another.

The problem right now is "retraining programs" and the idea of education.

Education needs to be more flexible and "retraining programs" need to be quick and professional. They are very rubbish right now and subpar.

When you have so many machines, you will need a lot of people to maintain these machines, many people to build these machines, many people to order these machines, and etc, etc.

The thing is, there is no one good college, re-training program for mid-aged adults.

It is not hard to train people to take care of machines or supervise machines, but the problem is how, where, and cost.

Canada moving towards automation is great, however, you need to shift workers from manual labour to supervisory roles or design roles.

I would love my mom to become a fashion designer since the automation boom and leave her factory job that will be automated soon.

But where will one learn this stuff quickly? And quickly be able to re-enter the work force?

This is a problem of educational instutions and businesses not working together to quickly shift manpower.

This is something they must fix, or I will fix when I finally come up with a plan to hit the automation industry as well.

It is like teaching our dad's how to translate their wood working skills into Auto-CAD. Same idea. How does one do this?

I believe the software needs to change and be more flexible.

We have touch screens, interactive UIs, and voice commands.

Software developers are out of touch with the physical workers who do the work. I believe if they work together, they can come up with a interactive software that enables manual workers to convert their skills and ideas into the design industry.

Bottom line: We need more co-operation between older adults and younger adults in translating and reforming the design industry. We need better co-operation between businesses and schools to swifty retrain and move manpower to where the jobs are.
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Apr 11, 2008
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Rhylock wrote:
Feb 9th, 2017 2:39 pm
Haha, don't worry about this.

Automation does not take jobs, it shifts jobs from one to another.

The problem right now is "retraining programs" and the idea of education.

Education needs to be more flexible and "retraining programs" need to be quick and professional. They are very rubbish right now and subpar.

When you have so many machines, you will need a lot of people to maintain these machines, many people to build these machines, many people to order these machines, and etc, etc.

The thing is, there is no one good college, re-training program for mid-aged adults.

It is not hard to train people to take care of machines or supervise machines, but the problem is how, where, and cost.

Canada moving towards automation is great, however, you need to shift workers from manual labour to supervisory roles or design roles.

I would love my mom to become a fashion designer since the automation boom and leave her factory job that will be automated soon.

But where will one learn this stuff quickly? And quickly be able to re-enter the work force?

This is a problem of educational instutions and businesses not working together to quickly shift manpower.

This is something they must fix, or I will fix when I finally come up with a plan to hit the automation industry as well.

It is like teaching our dad's how to translate their wood working skills into Auto-CAD. Same idea. How does one do this?

I believe the software needs to change and be more flexible.

We have touch screens, interactive UIs, and voice commands.

Software developers are out of touch with the physical workers who do the work. I believe if they work together, they can come up with a interactive software that enables manual workers to convert their skills and ideas into the design industry.

Bottom line: We need more co-operation between older adults and younger adults in translating and reforming the design industry. We need better co-operation between businesses and schools to swifty retrain and move manpower to where the jobs are.
The question is do you need the same number of designer, supervisor, etc... as workers. For example, if your dad put his wood working skill into Auto-CAD, everybody with the same skill would become redundant.

That's assuming AI needs designers. Once they learn to program themselves, we would be in real trouble.
Newbie
Jan 17, 2017
18 posts
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Archanfel wrote:
Feb 9th, 2017 2:55 pm
The question is do you need the same number of designer, supervisor, etc... as workers. For example, if your dad put his wood working skill into Auto-CAD, everybody with the same skill would become redundant.

That's assuming AI needs designers. Once they learn to program themselves, we would be in real trouble.
Yes, I understand what your saying, However, because we live in a captialistic society, more competition between designers is good, it drives prices down.

Also because you do not need to physically design things in real life anymore to be successful, allowing someone to convert real life ideas into the virutal world, gaming, entertainment, movie industry is also good too.

If we had more "Apple" like companies, prices of electronics would go down.

However, you are right, we do not need that many designers, and the wages would also go down due to the increase of supply in workers. But that would be offset if prices also go down.

So depending on how it works, if AI does replace everything, everything would be dirt cheap and human beings would be on 24/7 holiday. But this is assuming the people who control the machines say that.

So the real question becomes who controls these machines?
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Apr 11, 2008
4149 posts
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Rhylock wrote:
Feb 9th, 2017 3:04 pm
Yes, I understand what your saying, However, because we live in a captialistic society, more competition between designers is good, it drives prices down.

Also because you do not need to physically design things in real life anymore to be successful, allowing someone to convert real life ideas into the virutal world, gaming, entertainment, movie industry is also good too.

If we had more "Apple" like companies, prices of electronics would go down.

However, you are right, we do not need that many designers, and the wages would also go down due to the increase of supply in workers. But that would be offset if prices also go down.

So depending on how it works, if AI does replace everything, everything would be dirt cheap and human beings would be on 24/7 holiday. But this is assuming the people who control the machines say that.

So the real question becomes who controls these machines?
No matter the price, we just don't need that many designers. It would be unemployment rather than lower labour costs.

Take Apple for example, if it has unlimited robotic workforce that can produce anything cheaply, you pretty much just need a few really good designers which would drive all other companies out of business.

Of course, the more interesting question would be, who would be using those apple products when the vast majority of humans are jobless. :)
Deal Fanatic
Jul 5, 2005
5052 posts
204 upvotes
Archanfel wrote:
Feb 9th, 2017 2:36 pm
It's because large corporations like Walmart that our inflation was extremely low and our investment return was extremely high. Good deal all around.
Costs would have been forced lower by innovation and automation here anyways. That's how things always worked before we started subsidizing low cost manufacturing from China by ignoring the disastrous environmental damage of manufacturing in China and shipping it across the ocean. All they did by offshoring all of our manufacturing industries was delay the need for investment and increase the cost to the environment and apparently the climate overall.

But hey, cheap stuff from Walmart so it's all good.
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Apr 11, 2008
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hugh_da_man wrote:
Feb 9th, 2017 3:33 pm
Costs would have been forced lower by innovation and automation here anyways. That's how things always worked before we started subsidizing low cost manufacturing from China by ignoring the disastrous environmental damage of manufacturing in China and shipping it across the ocean. All they did by offshoring all of our manufacturing industries was delay the need for investment and increase the cost to the environment and apparently the climate overall.

But hey, cheap stuff from Walmart so it's all good.
We didn't subsidize anything, we created regulations and big companies simply figured out that our moronic regulations (including those that delayed automation adoption and clean nuclear powers) can't harm them across the ocean.

But, what can we do other than enjoying cheap stuff from Walmart?
Deal Addict
Sep 5, 2010
1915 posts
163 upvotes
Toronto
Archanfel wrote:
Feb 8th, 2017 10:48 am
In other words, low skilled labors need to educate themselves and move to new fields, instead of hoping any policy can bring their job back.

It also beg the question, should we have a tax overhaul to make sure automations pay the same amount of taxes as regular workers.
Great point, I was just going to make the sane comment. If humans are taxed, why won't robots? I am sure governements will look into this (not just to help people but to tap into new revenue sources)

Someone actually floated this idea over 3 years ago, when the issue was still not so serious yet : http://budgetsense.ca/2013/10/as-more-r ... robot-tax/
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Deal Fanatic
Jul 5, 2005
5052 posts
204 upvotes
Archanfel wrote:
Feb 9th, 2017 4:40 pm
We didn't subsidize anything, we created regulations and big companies simply figured out that our moronic regulations (including those that delayed automation adoption and clean nuclear powers) can't harm them across the ocean.

But, what can we do other than enjoying cheap stuff from Walmart?
We could have taxed and tariffed but we didn't, that's a subsidy. Also we have ports, roads and railways we built and maintained with our tax dollars to get these products all over Canada. And the mayor of Vancouver has the nerve to criticize oil pipelines but promote ports that are infinitely worse for the environment.

Elect a better government.
Deal Addict
Dec 9, 2002
1243 posts
94 upvotes
Kitchener
People work and make money.
Use money to buy shit.
Companies profit.
Companies employ automation to reduce costs.
People lose jobs.
People can't buy shit anymore.
Companies lose profit?
Companies go bankrupt?
Machines take over world.
Deal Addict
Feb 9, 2009
3008 posts
761 upvotes
Stayed recently at the Residence Inn LAX/Century City (in LA, of course).

They have a robot named Wally that brings things like food, etc to your door -- no human. I actually needed tape cause something of mine broke and the phone rings that informs you the robot is at your door... it then has some questions it asks on it's little screen and you open the top and take our your item. It then asks how you did and then it rides off to the sunset (youtube videos available of this).

It did a great job, in fact if they wanted to right now they could implement this in fast food restaurants... basically 90% of humans could be replaced (keep 1-2 humans to oversee the bots).

So its closer than everyone thinks... I feel like by 2030 robots will outnumber humans in many of these service fields..
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