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Acrobits Groundwire SIP client $6.99 iOS / $5.49 Android

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  • Nov 16th, 2017 3:34 pm
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Mar 3, 2002
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Lumute wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 3:13 pm
Looking at Groundwire reviews seems like they recently did some mayor GUI changes and it has been awful since
I haven't tested Groundwire on Android in ages, but on iOS, I'm not having problems.
With any client you use, make sure you have your SIP Transport set to TCP, UDP transport for SIP accounts is one of the main battery killers.
TCP is certainly better than UDP (and you don't have to deal with 3rd party privacy issues), but for battery life, nothing beats push.
Not all SIP services support TCP.
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Does anyone know if I can do SMS texting on Acrobits Groundwire on an IOS device?
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mavvee wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 3:20 pm
Does anyone know if I can do SMS texting on Acrobits Groundwire on an IOS device?
They only support SMS with Betamax providers, AFAIK: https://www.acrobits.net/hesk/knowledge ... article=55

It might be worth asking them if they support SMS with other providers now: https://www.acrobits.net/hesk/index.php?a=add.
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Webslinger wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 3:16 pm
TCP is certainly better than UDP (and you don't have to deal with 3rd party privacy issues), but for battery life, nothing beats push.
Not all SIP services support TCP.
True, also TLS is good (and more secure) but same issue here where not every provider supports it...

I agree about push and battery but my main concern as is security (not just privacy), from Zoiper forums:
We cannot make a generic push server for non whitelabel customers without "stealing" our user credentials and store them in plaintext on our server. This is due to apple only allowing 1 push server per application.

As we have millions of users, this would be a big target for hackers. We are not willing to put our customers data at risk.
Not sure about Android but I would still worry about push requiring your credentials to be sent to their servers and no way of knowing these companies implementation details or privacy and security practices so I prefer not to risk it, TCP / TLS is good enough...
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Lumute wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 3:50 pm

I agree about push and battery but my main concern as is security (not just privacy), from Zoiper forums
Not sure what they mean by "non whitelabel."

Zoiper wrote:We cannot make a generic push server for non whitelabel customers without "stealing" our user credentials and store them in plaintext on our server.

Zoiper is basically making the same claims Bria reps used to avoid implementing Push servers four years ago: https://support.counterpath.com/topic/b ... ifications. Now suddenly, 4 years later, Bria is implementing Push. Bottom line is it costs money to implement your own push servers, which is one reason why, I strongly suspect (but am not positive), Bria went to a subscription based model. I have no doubt Bria and Zoiper reps would attempt to counter what I'm writing here (not that I care). I note that no one, at the time, really responded to what Giovanny Vargas wrote: https://support.counterpath.com/topic/b ... ment-17699. And it was mostly guessing about what Acrobits was doing internally. I have nothing against Zoiper or Bria; I just don't necessarily believe the servers are as insecure as they claim. Or if the entire process is a huge security risk, why is Bria suddenly implementing push now, four years later?



https://www.acrobits.net/hesk/knowledge ... article=52

"Security - Acrobits Softphone [and Groundwire] must transfer your account details to SIPIS over a https secure connection in order for Push Notifications to work. But this should not be a concern for most users. SIPIS is very secure, and we have never had a security issue. I think the only users who should be concerned with this would be those using the Softphone or Groundwire with a PBX and [if] their company has very strict security policies. If that's the case, just show this article to your PBX administrator. It should have enough information for them to determine if they will allow you to use Push Notifications. And please note, this only applies when using Push Notifications. This does not occur if you use one of our methods for multitasking. (as mentioned earlier, many users confuse Push Notifications with multitasking)"
Last edited by Webslinger on Nov 8th, 2017 4:23 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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1) I think the patent on g.729 expired (this year) so it theoretically should be free now (?)

2) g.729 does error correction (?) so it's not just a pure bandwidth vs audio quality issue compared to g.711 There could be places on hspa cellular where g.729 works great, but g.711 doesn't work at all

3) A lot of sip providers do not support tcp sip signalling. For those looking at reliable inbound calling, udp based sip signalling needs a lot of udp keep alive packets to be periodically sent when the phone is on standby waiting for the next caller. This prevents the phone radio from sleeping and that kills battery life. You can go from a full charged to dead battery in a few hours.

The Acrobits push server system uses standard apple/Google push notifications, so battery life is not impacted

Udp vs tcp is not an issue if all you do is outbound calling. It only affects inbound calling
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l69norm wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 4:54 pm
1) I think the patent on g.729 expired (this year) so it theoretically should be free now (?)
Yeah, but I suspect providers had to pay for it originally. And the development (and possibly old licensing fees/sunk costs) cost still gets passed on for a number of apps.
Maybe that will change.
g.729 does error correction
The error correction is extremely limited and virtually useless; if a bunch of packets drop, forget it. You can also expect latency to increase.
This was actually a decent writeup (if someone wants to pick it up for further reading): https://books.google.ca/books?id=uhrNIy ... if&f=false
(check out page 537).
Last edited by Webslinger on Nov 8th, 2017 5:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Please do not PM me for assistance unless it's to reply to a PM I sent. I try to help when I can on the forums. Thank you. OBi200/202 Freephoneline setup guide can be found here (v. 1.51x). Related OBi200 discussion can be found here. For OBi202, click here.
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Webslinger wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 4:23 pm
Not sure what they mean by "non whitelabel."
Many SIP providers offer their own client software that only works with their service which is nothing more than the Zopier client with a skin on top and a little bit of customization, this is called whitelabeling and the reason why I its easier to implement push and not a security concern, the push server is dedicated to that provider so it would not be considered a 3rd party when giving it your credentials...
Webslinger wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 4:23 pm
Zoiper is basically making the same claims Bria reps used to avoid implementing Push servers four years ago: https://support.counterpath.com/topic/b ... ifications. Now suddenly, 4 years later, Bria is implementing Push. Bottom line is it costs money to implement your own push servers, which is one reason why, I strongly suspect (but am not positive), Bria went to a subscription based model. I have no doubt Bria and Zoiper reps would attempt to counter what I'm writing here (not that I care). I note that no one, at the time, really responded to what Giovanny Vargas wrote: https://support.counterpath.com/topic/b ... ment-17699. And it was mostly guessing about what Acrobits was doing internally. I have nothing against Zoiper or Bria; I just don't necessarily believe they absolutely must store passwords in plain text (or otherwise have passwords stored as insecurely as they claim). Or is that what Bria is suddenly doing now, four years later? Seems unlikely.

https://www.acrobits.net/hesk/knowledge ... article=52

"Security - Acrobits Softphone [and Groundwire] must transfer your account details to SIPIS over a https secure connection in order for Push Notifications to work. But this should not be a concern for most users. SIPIS is very secure, and we have never had a security issue. I think the only users who should be concerned with this would be those using the Softphone or Groundwire with a PBX and [if] their company has very strict security policies. If that's the case, just show this article to your PBX administrator. It should have enough information for them to determine if they will allow you to use Push Notifications. And please note, this only applies when using Push Notifications. This does not occur if you use one of our methods for multitasking. (as mentioned earlier, many users confuse Push Notifications with multitasking)"
That may be the case but it does not change the fact that you are sharing your credentials with a 3rd party with unknown security practices that then becomes a gold mine to hackers, plus judging by the company I work for and the so many security scandals that come to light all the time, companies tell a lot of BS to customers to gain their trust when in reality their security practices are a disaster waiting to happen... I would avoid sharing credentials with any company unless necessary and in my experience TCP / TLS aer good enough battery wise...
l69norm wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 4:54 pm
1) I think the patent on g.729 expired (this year) so it theoretically should be free now (?)
I was not aware of that, thanks for the info! time to get more channels for my PBX...
Last edited by Lumute on Nov 8th, 2017 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Webslinger wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 5:06 pm
The error correction is extremely limited and virtually useless; if a bunch of packets drop, forget it. You can also expect latency to increase.
This was actually a decent writeup (if someone wants to pick it up for further reading): https://books.google.ca/books?id=uhrNIy ... if&f=false
(check out page 537).
Here's a more concise study on packet loss on audio quality.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/dfb4/1 ... bf276d.pdf
For the packet loss 12% the G.711 codec has a rating R equal to 80 (Tn max = 16.6 ms). For this packet loss the G.729 codec has R = 60 (Tn max = 21.9 ms)
Higher R value is higher subjective quality.
Looking at the graphs, for all tested packet loss percentages G711 produced a higher subjective quality.

As an aside https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... hone&hl=en Linphone offers a free open source implementation of G.729 as well as push notifications.
Last edited by mobad on Nov 8th, 2017 6:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Lumute wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 6:02 pm
Many SIP providers offer their own client software that only works with their service which is nothing more than the Zopier client with a skin on top and a little bit of customization, this is called whitelabeling
Oh, okay, thank you for the explanation.


That may be the case but it does not change the fact that you are sharing your credentials with a 3rd party
I don't dispute the security concern you're raising and have mentioned the same concern over here: anyone-here-using-groundwire-sip-app-io ... #p28062270 (and I also discussed push a little further down: anyone-here-using-groundwire-sip-app-io ... #p28071603). But I do question claims about the desire to not implement push because of how incredibly insecure the entire process is; I doubt that's the whole story. Acrobits has implemented push since 2009 and has never had its SIPIS servers hacked (I don’t deny that they could be hacked, but if the process were completely insecure, it would have happened already).

For those who are security-minded and have resources, they can run their own SIPIS push server: https://doc.acrobits.net/sipis/installation.html.
https://forum.acrobits.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=101#p391
Last edited by Webslinger on Nov 8th, 2017 6:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Please do not PM me for assistance unless it's to reply to a PM I sent. I try to help when I can on the forums. Thank you. OBi200/202 Freephoneline setup guide can be found here (v. 1.51x). Related OBi200 discussion can be found here. For OBi202, click here.
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May 8, 2001
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I used to use Acrobits "Softphone" back in the iPhone 4S days. Is this the same and they just renamed the app or is it a new beast altogether? I still have my unlocked FreePhoneLine account but hardly use it (different area code), but if it is essentially the same will consider purchasing it again if the upgrade isn't free ("Softphone" vs "Groundwire"). Never had problems with the acrobits and third party credentials before so ain't too worried about that.

Thanks.
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MikeNet wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 11:54 pm
I used to use Acrobits "Softphone" back in the iPhone 4S days. Is this the same
Softphone has less features. Groundwire offers conference calling (similar to 3-way calling) and call transfers while Softphone doesn't.
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Sep 5, 2016
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is any body able to find solution to use OPUS codec??
I mostly concentrate on incoming call. With my limited knowledge I cross these hurdles

Csipsimple softphone as app
Antisip.com or sip2sip.info as sip provider

But struck at my DID provider which support only G711 & G729 codec. This time I am using G729, working ok but always want to use OPUS codec . any suggestion which voip company support OPUS codec for incoming DID???
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Dec 9, 2007
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Webslinger wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 12:27 am
Softphone has less features. Groundwire offers conference calling (similar to 3-way calling) and call transfers while Softphone doesn't.
Is there a list of features outlining the differences between the 2 versions? I've been using softphone and aside from periodic Bluetooth issues in my car, it has been really good.
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flair.14 wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 12:09 pm
Is there a list of features outlining the differences between the 2 versions? I've been using softphone and aside from periodic Bluetooth issues in my car, it has been really good.
I'm only aware of those two features being different: https://forum.acrobits.net/faq.php#f0r0.
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