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Advice, advice...how to go about negotiate for a gov. job?

  • Last Updated:
  • Nov 12th, 2017 4:21 pm
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Newbie
Jan 11, 2017
88 posts
25 upvotes
Consulting will almost always bring you higher pay than a full-time CSx position. The consulting you did was for the same organization you received an offer for? Leverage the "government experience" and even though email is convenient, always leave final negotiations to either in person or on the phone. Promote yourself.. leverage "all" your experience inside and out of government.. Good luck and congrats on getting a full-time offer.

Have you received a Letter of Offer?
[OP]
Member
Aug 8, 2010
310 posts
33 upvotes
hdjunkie wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 8:50 am
Consulting will almost always bring you higher pay than a full-time CSx position. The consulting you did was for the same organization you received an offer for? Leverage the "government experience" and even though email is convenient, always leave final negotiations to either in person or on the phone. Promote yourself.. leverage "all" your experience inside and out of government.. Good luck and congrats on getting a full-time offer.

Have you received a Letter of Offer?
NO. If yes, I would be here asking what to do :)

not yet, just told I am the selected one and HR is doing a letter of offer.
Newbie
Jan 11, 2017
88 posts
25 upvotes
Well getting a letter of offer can take some time. Personally I wouldn't start pay negotiations until a letter of offer is in hand.
[OP]
Member
Aug 8, 2010
310 posts
33 upvotes
hdjunkie wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 10:15 am
Well getting a letter of offer can take some time. Personally I wouldn't start pay negotiations until a letter of offer is in hand.
That's the issue.

Ethically, it seems not nice. I thought I should be honest. so I was writing to ask if I could start at a higher step. after reading this, I decide it's important to be safe, so I just deleted that part and sent.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
4732 posts
2309 upvotes
Edmonton
Temporary consulting jobs often pay more than permanent jobs. You need to consider what you value.

Does the contract offer paid stat holidays? Paid vacations? Any training? Any benefits? Pension, matching RRSP, etc?

30k is significant, but it depends on the salary range. For me, if I could get a permanent job at my client site within 30k of my contract pay, I'd jump on it so hard...

C
[OP]
Member
Aug 8, 2010
310 posts
33 upvotes
CNeufeld wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 11:48 am
Temporary consulting jobs often pay more than permanent jobs. You need to consider what you value.

Does the contract offer paid stat holidays? Paid vacations? Any training? Any benefits? Pension, matching RRSP, etc?

30k is significant, but it depends on the salary range. For me, if I could get a permanent job at my client site within 30k of my contract pay, I'd jump on it so hard...

C
Great to know. Thank you! because I am single and healthy and I traveled a bit when I was unemployed, so I don't think much about these perks. Guess, I should think long term.
Deal Expert
Aug 2, 2004
25426 posts
2759 upvotes
East Gwillimbury
1000islands wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 11:35 am
Ethically, it seems not nice. I thought I should be honest. so I was writing to ask if I could start at a higher step. after reading this, I decide it's important to be safe, so I just deleted that part and sent.
I thought you already had the offer.

You can't negotiate on salary with out an offer.
Deal Addict
Oct 16, 2013
1805 posts
407 upvotes
Toronto
Congrats on getting the job.
[OP]
Member
Aug 8, 2010
310 posts
33 upvotes
I also just replied the recruiting firm how much they charge the client and how much they pay me directly...since they insist I must make a decision today.
Deal Addict
Oct 16, 2013
1805 posts
407 upvotes
Toronto
1000islands wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 4:38 pm
I also just replied the recruiting firm how much they charge the client and how much they pay me directly...since they insist I must make a decision today.
They don't have to tell you but it will be a lot (%). I suggest taking the perm position since you will get a gov number and can apply to the internal job board. Plus you may be getting tons of perks.
Newbie
Oct 5, 2016
20 posts
8 upvotes
1000islands wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 9:55 pm
So I just got an contract extension offer and the gov. told me I am selected for a position, half hour apart . Life hasn't been easy for me. Most people graduated the same year and same field as me probably at least managerial level now. and here I am just happy to get something. so I really need your good advice here.

As a tiny female, I want the gov. job, but the monetary difference between IT consulting and perm is substantial, up to 30K. so I am wondering how to talk to the manager/contact person to negotiate to a higher step of the position?

I really don't want to mess things up. So thank you in advance!
Play the long game, take the government job.

Is it correct that the government job is for CS-02 at a federal department ? If so, is the position in the national capital region ?
If yes, then REALLY take the government job. Thinking of the future, the *VAST* majority of positions at the CS-03 level and above are
in the NCR. Here's some statistics that I saved from a year ago (I'm a CS-03 in the fed gov, so I have an interest in this sort of information):

Image

I'm not sure if the hiring manager has a say in what pay step you are offered. That might be the decision of HR. But certainly it's possible to be put
at the highest step based on work experience.

The government rules for pay and benefits are not static. Joining now, you would pay a little less in pension deductions but have to work longer.
Existing employees work under the previous pension rules. Best to join sooner rather than later so you that you may avoid more changes in the future
imposed by future governments.
Newbie
Jan 11, 2017
88 posts
25 upvotes
1000islands wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 4:38 pm
I also just replied the recruiting firm how much they charge the client and how much they pay me directly...since they insist I must make a decision today.
Don't be surprised if they "don't" tell you. I'm also in the IT space with the GOC and can tell you recruiters/agency often take 30% or more. Also depends on the contract they are trying to staff, some contracts are paid out by the GOC with a range and are usually higher than a full-time/indeterm position. The more experience a person has the recruiter/agency can bill more etc.. vs an entry level resource. The trick is to learn the rate range.

HR is extremely slow to produce letter of offers, can take weeks and the step negotiation requires approval and is wise to negotiate your starting rate when hired. Much more difficult to neg. after the fact.. Just something to keep in mind.
[OP]
Member
Aug 8, 2010
310 posts
33 upvotes
hdjunkie wrote:
Nov 10th, 2017 9:39 am
Don't be surprised if they "don't" tell you. I'm also in the IT space with the GOC and can tell you recruiters/agency often take 30% or more. Also depends on the contract they are trying to staff, some contracts are paid out by the GOC with a range and are usually higher than a full-time/indeterm position. The more experience a person has the recruiter/agency can bill more etc.. vs an entry level resource. The trick is to learn the rate range.

HR is extremely slow to produce letter of offers, can take weeks and the step negotiation requires approval and is wise to negotiate your starting rate when hired. Much more difficult to neg. after the fact.. Just something to keep in mind.
They actually told me over the phone. 20% cut...so not bad.

Yes, I still haven't received letter of offer...but sent info for security clearance. so I have to receive the letter before asking for a higher step? I thought they will put the salary info in the letter? if I ask before they produce the letter, it will save their effort and time, right? If I ask after getting the letter, it means they will have to write me another one again if they agree to give me a higher step?
[OP]
Member
Aug 8, 2010
310 posts
33 upvotes
flavious99 wrote:
Nov 10th, 2017 3:48 am
Play the long game, take the government job.

Is it correct that the government job is for CS-02 at a federal department ? If so, is the position in the national capital region ?
If yes, then REALLY take the government job. Thinking of the future, the *VAST* majority of positions at the CS-03 level and above are
in the NCR. Here's some statistics that I saved from a year ago (I'm a CS-03 in the fed gov, so I have an interest in this sort of information):


I'm not sure if the hiring manager has a say in what pay step you are offered. That might be the decision of HR. But certainly it's possible to be put
at the highest step based on work experience.

The government rules for pay and benefits are not static. Joining now, you would pay a little less in pension deductions but have to work longer.
Existing employees work under the previous pension rules. Best to join sooner rather than later so you that you may avoid more changes in the future
imposed by future governments.
All yeses. Thanks for the information! So the pay and benefits are getting worse?
right, I have to think long term instead of monetary short term gain. It seems the consensus now.
Is it hard to get into CS-03?
and the department is 2KM from where I live....now I really hope they keep their words and hire me now.
Penalty Box
User avatar
Mar 23, 2016
753 posts
201 upvotes
1. Make your own decisions
2. I think it is fine to let them know your expectations especially if you have the verbal offer. I'm not sure why you need the letter in hand first.
3. Be prepared for what you want to do if they don't meet your expectations
"Obama is the quintessence of all that is wrong with America today.. people looking at the superficial which is skin color and ignoring idiotic behavior." - the poster AndySixx 😲 :facepalm:

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