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Advice needed to deal with landlord

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  • Mar 21st, 2012 10:24 pm
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[OP]
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Jul 13, 2008
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Advice needed to deal with landlord

I recently finished my lease on a condo and handovered my keys to the landlord. I paid $100 deposit for the keys before as it was on the lease agreement. The landlord said he would mail the cheque to me as he forgot to bring it.

Now I called two weeks later and he said that he is not giving me the $100 because I caused "damages" to the unit....which is total BS, I told him he should've mentioned that if it exist at all when I returned the keys

Can anyone advise what can / should I do next ?
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Jan 18, 2004
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IMHO, its $100. Not worth the hassle. Next time, get the money before giving back the keys.
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Aug 22, 2003
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My understanding is a key deposit is actually illegal. Remind the LL of that tidbit and ask again.
Thinking seriously about the 4 S's...Sun, Sand, Surf and ... Booked for Sept in Mexico and booked Samana DR for Jan!
[OP]
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CSK'sMom wrote:
Feb 16th, 2012 11:28 am
My understanding is a key deposit is actually illegal. Remind the LL of that tidbit and ask again.

hm can you quote me source on that ?
Here is the tidbit from the lease:
"The tenant agrees to pay $100.00 as a key deposit, which shall be refunded upon the return of, all the keys, electronic entry
cards and a garage entry remote unit, in a damage*free condition."
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Jun 15, 2010
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AzureD wrote:
Feb 16th, 2012 11:18 am
I recently finished my lease on a condo and handovered my keys to the landlord. I paid $100 deposit for the keys before as it was on the lease agreement. The landlord said he would mail the cheque to me as he forgot to bring it.

Now I called two weeks later and he said that he is not giving me the $100 because I caused "damages" to the unit....which is total BS, I told him he should've mentioned that if it exist at all when I returned the keys

Can anyone advise what can / should I do next ?

Do you have a copy of your lease agreement? 2) did the lanlord check the apartment before you gave him the keys? What province are you in?. PM me amd i can help you get your 100 dollars plus the legal costs thay you will habe to pay out of your pocket :-)
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Aug 20, 2011
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Pallet Town
If you are renting a premise, collecting a deposit other than Last month's rent is considered illegal according to the RTA (residential tenancy act). There are ways you can go towards collecting the $100... but it is a giant hassle. Considering now the lease ended, and he now plain out owes you money, you'd very well have to take the case to small claims court as I have before. $100 is not worth the hassle and fees it would take towards going to court. Now if it was $1000 that'd be a different story..
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Jan 11, 2008
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The landlord has no right to keep your $100. He's told you he is keeping it due to damage - and damage deposits are not allowed in Ontario.

Regarding key deposits, it is unusual that the Landlord Tenant Board say they are okay (with certain limitations), while the Residential Tenancies Act clearly says they are not allowed. In any case, the landlord cannot keep the $100. If there are damages, he would have to go after you to recover for the damages, but can't keep the $100 for the damages that he claims are there.

Residential Tenancies Act:

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statut ... 6r17_e.htm

Additional charges prohibited
134. (1) Unless otherwise prescribed, no landlord shall, directly or indirectly, with respect to any rental unit,

(a) collect or require or attempt to collect or require from a tenant or prospective tenant of the rental unit a fee, premium, commission, bonus, penalty, key deposit or other like amount of money whether or not the money is refundable;


Landlord Tenant Board says this (which conflicts with the law):

http://www.ltb.gov.on.ca/en/Key_Informa ... 11479.html
Can a landlord ask for a deposit for keys?

Yes, but only if:

the deposit is refundable and,
the amount of the deposit is not more than the expected cost of replacing the key(s) if they are not returned to the landlord.
The landlord must give the deposit back when the tenant turns in their key(s) at the end of their tenancy.


And here's the info you need to get your money back:

Money collected illegally
135. (1) A tenant or former tenant of a rental unit may apply to the Board for an order that the landlord, superintendent or agent of the landlord pay to the tenant any money the person collected or retained in contravention of this Act or the Tenant Protection Act, 1997. 2006, c. 17, s. 135 (1).
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Aug 22, 2003
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LTB stuff is out of date. I can tell you for a fact that they will side with tenant over this. A good friend owns upwards of 60 properties (not units), many student rentals. He was charging students $25 key deposit after getting fed up with so many not returning keys at all or "loosing" them several times over their 8 month lease. One student with lawyer parents took him to the board over this and won. He was told he can't charge the deposit at all, and to boot, if they don't return the keys must sue them for new locks. Lost key replacement fee can only be the cost of the actual key as well.
Thinking seriously about the 4 S's...Sun, Sand, Surf and ... Booked for Sept in Mexico and booked Samana DR for Jan!
[OP]
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Jul 13, 2008
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thanks will bring this up to management, the property manager I've been dealing with is a 80 yrs old senile guy so not the best person to deal with.
The keys are magnetic keys which cost $25 each (I found out a week after I gave the deposit when the keys stopped working and I had to get new ones from the condo directly) so I probably have a ground already to argue since the key deposit cost more than the keys itself
@CSK'sMom do you know what channel he went through ? Did he go through small claim court or just presented the case to the board.

I don't have the receipt for the deposit anymore but I still have the copy of the lease agreement which stated the terms.
I handed over the keys to the property manager after inspection INSIDE the unit itself though a bit rushed (the manager arrived 45 minutes late...and I had to go to a business meeting afterward)

The damages he claimed I did:
- I didn't replace the bulbs (wtf???)
- I painted the ceiling (no idea wtf he is talking about...I don't know how / never painted the ceiling)
- I left foods in the fridge (the fridge was empty upon inspection, he checked it himself)

All in all I think it's pretty BS and hopefully there is a way to solve this without too much hassle
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Aug 22, 2003
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They took him to the LTB. If it was me, I'd start with printing out the section of the RTA and give it to your landlord with a written demand for the deposit back with a firm timeline (say 10 business days). If that doesn't get some action on their part and your money, then file with the LTB.
Thinking seriously about the 4 S's...Sun, Sand, Surf and ... Booked for Sept in Mexico and booked Samana DR for Jan!
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AzureD wrote:
Feb 16th, 2012 11:31 am
Not about the $100 tbh, more about the principle

Don't want to sound offending, but if it was $1 would you still be upset and trying to fight it? No? Then its about the $100.

But even if wasn't about the money, you have to pick your battles. Life's short. Not worth it trying to fight every one. Just my experience, I try to limit the battles I have to fight, because if I look back, it seems I've tried to fight too many in my youth. Less stress = more happy. :)

Admittedly, $100 is worth a fight for some people, and that's okay too if you feel the negatives (if any) don't outweigh the positives.
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CSK'sMom wrote:
Feb 16th, 2012 1:10 pm
LTB stuff is out of date. I can tell you for a fact that they will side with tenant over this. A good friend owns upwards of 60 properties (not units), many student rentals. He was charging students $25 key deposit after getting fed up with so many not returning keys at all or "loosing" them several times over their 8 month lease. One student with lawyer parents took him to the board over this and won. He was told he can't charge the deposit at all, and to boot, if they don't return the keys must sue them for new locks. Lost key replacement fee can only be the cost of the actual key as well.

I agree they will side with the tenant. No question about it. I was just pointing out it is strange that the LTB states something different on their site than the law (current Residential Tenancies Act is from 2006, so this isn't new). My husband and I have owned more than 10 rental properties (all sold now) and always followed the rules exactly. For example, many of my tenants were surprised when they got interest every year on the last month's deposit as they didn't know that is the law.

The laws in Ontario are very pro-tenant, and in this case it is very clear that the landlord is wrong and the OP will win this easily.
[OP]
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Mr Nobody wrote:
Feb 16th, 2012 1:23 pm
Don't want to sound offending, but if it was $1 would you still be upset and trying to fight it? No? Then its about the $100.

But even if wasn't about the money, you have to pick your battles. Life's short. Not worth it trying to fight every one. Just my experience, I try to limit the battles I have to fight, because if I look back, it seems I've tried to fight too many in my youth. Less stress = more happy. :)

Admittedly, $100 is worth a fight for some people, and that's okay too if you feel the negatives (if any) don't outweigh the positives.

I probably won't pursue the case anymore if I have to hire lawyers and go to small claim court, but this is something that I won't slide by that easily even if it's just $1. I just spoke to LTB CSR and they said I should file T1 complaint form which has $45 fee. The fee would be refunded if I won the claim.
They took him to the LTB. If it was me, I'd start with printing out the section of the RTA and give it to your landlord with a written demand for the deposit back with a firm timeline (say 10 business days). If that doesn't get some action on their part and your money, then file with the LTB.
Drafted a letter here, let me know if this is appropriate
To Whom it May Concern,

My name is xxx and I was a tenant at the building you managed: xxx unit xxx from October 2010 to January 2012.

On the lease agreement that both parties signed it stated the following:

“The tenant agrees to pay $100.00 as a key deposit, which shall be refunded upon the return of, all the keys, electronic entry cards and a garage entry remote unit, in a damage* free condition.”

I returned the keys that was provided to me to XXX on February 1st 2012. Upon submitting of the key I requested my $100 key back from XXX which he notified me that he is not aware of such deposit and he would mail a cheque to me after checking the lease agreement.

As of February 16th 2012 I still have not received the cheque from XXX so I followed up via phone call. He responded that he has no intention to return due to the damages I allegedly have caused to the unit.

None of the alleged damages were mentioned by XXX during the key handover inside the unit on February 1st where Phil inspected the unit himself.

This are direct violations of Residential Tenancies Act:
“The only security deposit that a landlord may collect is a rent deposit collected in accordance with section 106. 2006, c. 17, s. 105 (1). “

Also:

“Charges that are allowed Under Regulation 516/06, Section 17, include payment for additional keys, remote entry devices or cards requested by the tenant, not greater than their direct costs, and refundable key/card deposits not greater than their direct costs.”

“Under section 238, Penalties, violations of the Residential Tenancies Act, are punishable by fines of up to $25,000 for each individual, and up to $100,000 for corporations.”

As you can see under Residential Tenancies Act such action is not permitted in Ontario and what XXX doing (claiming the key deposit as damage/security) deposit is illegal

The deposit I provided was $100 and the cost of the building keys were $25 each (2 keys were provided) according to the condominium manager which is also a violation to the act mentioned above

Throughout my term I have not missed a single payment and I am bearing no malicious intent toward the XXX corporation. All I’m asking is my $100 deposit that I am entitled for.

I’m willing to overlook another violation of Residential Tenancies Act on the lease you drafted as long as the security deposit is returned within 10 business days or I will file appropriate complaint toward the Landlord Tenant Board of Ontario for all of the listed violations.


“A landlord of a rental unit shall pay interest to the tenant annually on the amount of the rent deposit at a rate equal to the guideline determined under section 120 that is in effect at the time payment becomes due. 2006, c. 17, s. 106 (6).”

You can contact me at xxxx or mail the cheque to:xxx


Regards,

XXXX
[OP]
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sillysimms wrote:
Feb 16th, 2012 1:32 pm
I agree they will side with the tenant. No question about it. I was just pointing out it is strange that the LTB states something different on their site than the law (current Residential Tenancies Act is from 2006, so this isn't new). My husband and I have owned more than 10 rental properties (all sold now) and always followed the rules exactly. For example, many of my tenants were surprised when they got interest every year on the last month's deposit as they didn't know that is the law.

The laws in Ontario are very pro-tenant, and in this case it is very clear that the landlord is wrong and the OP will win this easily.

sillysimms I read the section where interest should be paid to tenants for security deposit.
However on my lease it stated:
"The parties to this Agreement hereby acknowledge thot, unless otherwise provided tor in this Agreement, the Deposit Holder shall place the deposit in trust in the Deposit Ho|der's non-interest bearing Real Estate Trust Account and no interest Shall be
earned, received or poid on the deposit."

I really don't care about the interest I'm just wondering if that is illegal to put and if it can be used to fight my case as well
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