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The aftermarket car audio thread : Questions welcomed! :)

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Member
Nov 20, 2008
370 posts
115 upvotes
Halifax, N.S.

The aftermarket car audio thread : Questions welcomed! :)

Hello everyone,

I am creating this thread with the aim of having a central discussion on aftermarket car audio.

About me : In a previous life, I was in the aftermarket car audio industry (along with some 2 stroke motorcycle performance products – but that is a different story). I had a lot of exposure to many high end brands from around the world and have had a chance to consult for and participate in some pretty nice builds. It was a different country, different demographics and different market conditions though. However, most of the basic concepts should still be applicable anywhere in the world.

Feel free to post your questions and I will try to answer them as best as I can. I invite other experts on the forum to chip in too :)

Whenever I see a truly valid, archival worthy point being brought up, I will come back to this first page and update the post with the lessons learnt.

Regards,
RJ

******************************************************************************

To help make suggestions faster, please follow a format closer to the below -

1) What car?
2) What's your budget?
3) What are your music preferences?
4) What is your expectation from the system - SQ bias (sound quality), SPL bias (very loud system) or SQL system (very loud but still high quality)?
5) How good are your DIY skills?
159 replies
Deal Addict
Oct 13, 2009
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Ottawa
I recently installed Infinity Reference X-Series 6502i into my Mazda CX-5 front and back doors, sound improvement was great. There are also 3.5" speakers up in the corners of the dash, should I upgrade those next or aim towards adding in an amp? I don't want to touch the headunit as it has alot of the vehicle controls built into it such as lighting, locks, alarm, ect... Thanks.
Member
Nov 20, 2008
370 posts
115 upvotes
Halifax, N.S.
chriscabob wrote: I recently installed Infinity Reference X-Series 6502i into my Mazda CX-5 front and back doors, sound improvement was great. There are also 3.5" speakers up in the corners of the dash, should I upgrade those next or aim towards adding in an amp? I don't want to touch the headunit as it has alot of the vehicle controls built into it such as lighting, locks, alarm, ect... Thanks.
Gotcha!

I am going to assume that you don't have the Bose system option and have THIS headunit?

The real world difference in sound by upgrading the 3.5" dash speakers will be a little harder to spot than your door speakers, since the dash speakers are mostly doing upper midrange and high range duty. If you are big on classical music / music with lots of vocals, then the difference will show immediately though.

Regarding the door speakers upgrade -> They will definitely benefit from an amplifier.
If you check the specs HERE, you will see that the speakers are rated for a nominal power rating of 60W RMS. I usually treat the nominal power rating as the minimum I need to feed the speakers to make sure that they performing closer to their full potential. This is where the tiny amplifier built into the OE headunits falls short - their output per channel is pretty low. If I was to guess, I'd say less than 30W RMS per channel (and I am being really generous).

Ultimately, there is no easy answer to your question. If you have a good chunk of cash to put down, then an amplifier upgrade sounds like a good idea.
If you want to put that off for now and spend little cash in the short term -> dash speaker upgrade.

Follow up questions?


EDIT - Fun link - http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthre ... PORT-model
Member
Nov 20, 2008
370 posts
115 upvotes
Halifax, N.S.
I am going to update this thread atleast on a weekly basis with lessons I have learnt over the years.

Today's TFTD (Thought For The Day) -
The sound quality of your aftermarket car audio is only 40% dependent on the equipment you used. Rest is 30% installation & 30% professional tuning. That's the mantra I usually go with :)
Deal Addict
Oct 13, 2009
2690 posts
2708 upvotes
Ottawa
ScarySkulls wrote: Gotcha!

I am going to assume that you don't have the Bose system option and have THIS headunit?

The real world difference in sound by upgrading the 3.5" dash speakers will be a little harder to spot than your door speakers, since the dash speakers are mostly doing upper midrange and high range duty. If you are big on classical music / music with lots of vocals, then the difference will show immediately though.

Regarding the door speakers upgrade -> They will definitely benefit from an amplifier.
If you check the specs HERE, you will see that the speakers are rated for a nominal power rating of 60W RMS. I usually treat the nominal power rating as the minimum I need to feed the speakers to make sure that they performing closer to their full potential. This is where the tiny amplifier built into the OE headunits falls short - their output per channel is pretty low. If I was to guess, I'd say less than 30W RMS per channel (and I am being really generous).

Ultimately, there is no easy answer to your question. If you have a good chunk of cash to put down, then an amplifier upgrade sounds like a good idea.
If you want to put that off for now and spend little cash in the short term -> dash speaker upgrade.

Follow up questions?


EDIT - Fun link - http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthre ... PORT-model

Thanks for the response,correct about the No Bose but actually it's the GS model with a touch screen HU hopefully a bit more powerful than the small HU you linked. I will most likely do the dash speakers next as I have no idea how to install an amp and will get a shop to do that.

The cx5 does have a bit of road noise though, thoughts on dynamatting on front and back doors?
Deal Fanatic
Oct 26, 2008
7022 posts
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Victoria, BC
ScarySkulls wrote: Feel free to post your questions and I will try to answer them as best as I can. I invite other experts on the forum to chip in too :)
Could you summarize which mainstream car makers in your opinion take sound system design seriously, and which ones just don't get it?

Cars that I have had since the early '90's always had a separate factory amplifier and yet I am surprised even today some new cars come with just 4 or 6 speakers driven just by the head unit.

Cutting costs to bring a model in at a target price level is one thing, but maybe some car makers would get more respect if they standardized on cheap subs under the seat and a modest trunk-mounted amp.

At least that would make upgrades easier. Oh, and how about some better standards among the car audio equipment makers which would also simplify upgrades?
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Jul 29, 2006
2212 posts
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Guelph
Here's my tip: As soon as you start using an amp, get a good capacitor and upgrade your battery or alternator. I was going through one a month back in highschool. Canadian Tire was getting pretty fed up with me exchanging them. lol.
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Dec 11, 2003
5731 posts
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Toronto
[QUOTE]Here's my tip: As soon as you start using an amp, get a good capacitor and upgrade your battery or alternator. [/QUOTE]

NOT true, and not needed for most people, I was running 600 watts to a subwoofer and 200 to my front and rear components, I NEVER had a problem.

It depends on the music you play more than anything, since using 800 watts is NEVER a constant thing, and unless your battery/alternator is weak to begin with you shouldn't have any problem, once you get to DB Drag race type of thing that's a different story.

Remember music is dynamic, and it's not 1 note.
--------------------------------------------------------------
HEATWARE.... if you bought from me ... thanks
Deal Addict
Mar 16, 2010
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m4r 1k8
what kind of head unit do u suggest for something that can (i.e pioneers app radio software mirror GPS while maintain sound? is pioneer my best bet at hybrid gps + great sound + touchscreen?)
Deal Addict
Sep 26, 2013
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MONTR
would replacing my stock speakers in my corolla a cheap first step for better quality sound?
Deal Addict
Dec 28, 2012
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googoo wrote: NOT true, and not needed for most people, I was running 600 watts to a subwoofer and 200 to my front and rear components, I NEVER had a problem.

It depends on the music you play more than anything, since using 800 watts is NEVER a constant thing, and unless your battery/alternator is weak to begin with you shouldn't have any problem, once you get to DB Drag race type of thing that's a different story.

Remember music is dynamic, and it's not 1 note.
+1

I ran 800W RMS on two 12'' subs for a little while with no cap, that was right about the limit of what my car's alternator could take. I had to downsize to 400w because it was making my ears ring and I was pretty sure it couldn't be good for my car. Most people don't need a cap for their basic systems.


Having a system was so much fun :twisted:
I miss being able to do hairtricks (weak ones mind you).
I have tried 33hz frequency sweeps too, but either I wasn't getting honest feedback or I needed more power.
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Jul 29, 2006
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Guelph
Back in highschool it was all the rage. I was running a 1,000 Watts and 500 watts for (2) 12's and a 15 shoved in the back of my Grand Am. Used to get it measured at car shows and stuff too, seemed to be the craze back in the days. I don't see that much anymore nowadays - at least after settling down with a family and all. lol. I remember hitting 130+ dB with my setup. Rear view mirror fell off, bouncing coins off the truck, setting off vehicle alarms and business alarms at night and pissing people off in general. The type of vehicle I ***** and moan about when they drive by my house now. Go figure.
Member
Nov 20, 2008
370 posts
115 upvotes
Halifax, N.S.
chriscabob wrote: Thanks for the response,correct about the No Bose but actually it's the GS model with a touch screen HU hopefully a bit more powerful than the small HU you linked. I will most likely do the dash speakers next as I have no idea how to install an amp and will get a shop to do that.

The cx5 does have a bit of road noise though, thoughts on dynamatting on front and back doors?
Sounds good! :)

Yes, hopefully it is a bit more powerful, however the chances of that are, unfortunately, slim. Reason is that end of the day, the unit is still most likely a standard double din unit - this usually means that space on the inside is not that much. Check out pictures of a double din unit online, and imagine trying to fit the disc drive mechanism, touchscreen hardware etc into that confined space. The internal amp usually ends up being small since it can only get so big and only produce so much heat.

To put things into further perspective, as an extreme case - THIS is what a Class D 50W RMS (claimed) ultra basic amplifier looks like in terms of size. Yeah.... as you can see.. basic problem - sheer lack of space.


Dynamat - Sound deadening always helps. I'm not sure how much it will help in that particular application, but there will be a difference for sure. Most apparent difference will be in closing the doors - a reassuring "European-ish" thunk :)
Member
Nov 20, 2008
370 posts
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Halifax, N.S.
macnut wrote: Could you summarize which mainstream car makers in your opinion take sound system design seriously, and which ones just don't get it?

Cars that I have had since the early '90's always had a separate factory amplifier and yet I am surprised even today some new cars come with just 4 or 6 speakers driven just by the head unit.

Cutting costs to bring a model in at a target price level is one thing, but maybe some car makers would get more respect if they standardized on cheap subs under the seat and a modest trunk-mounted amp.

At least that would make upgrades easier. Oh, and how about some better standards among the car audio equipment makers which would also simplify upgrades?
Haha... Yeah.. the good ol days. Sadly, the dash area is a prime real estate area that had been ignored by car makers for a long time. Not anymore. As the years progress, we will see pretty much all cars shift to full integrated entertainment systems that will be extremely hard to swap out.

On car makers not "getting it" - Car Enthusiasts are usually a small portion of the total customer base and car audio lovers are a minority of even that enthusiast share. I think the car makers realize it, and hence are pretty liberal in terms of cost cutting in a department where most people really don't care that much, because they know they can easily get away with it. Think about how many people just get by listening to radio only for months - Some are perfectly happy playing low bit rate MP3s (128 - 256 kbps) in their car etc.

So, the current formula that the car manufacturers seem to be adopting is - giving a basic sound system cuz they know that the 70% of people will be happy with that. Those that won't be - give them the option of a "premium" system. That will take care of another huge chunk of people who weren't happy with standard audio - say 20%. The remaining 10% - manufacturers leave them alone because they know those people will land up on forums, DIY or pay professionals to do something good.

The premium sound idea is a genius stroke. The price of the option often far exceeds the cost to the manufacturer, and hence increases the margin per car.
Member
Nov 20, 2008
370 posts
115 upvotes
Halifax, N.S.
googoo wrote: NOT true, and not needed for most people, I was running 600 watts to a subwoofer and 200 to my front and rear components, I NEVER had a problem.

It depends on the music you play more than anything, since using 800 watts is NEVER a constant thing, and unless your battery/alternator is weak to begin with you shouldn't have any problem, once you get to DB Drag race type of thing that's a different story.

Remember music is dynamic, and it's not 1 note.
Well said.

The biggest reason for people "thinking" they need capacitors is because the amplifier installation kit is the weak link - wire guage is not properly sized to the power requirements. The attached link is very old, but I kinda still like it and used to use it as a ballpark - find the guage recommendation and going one level up.

http://www.the12volt.com/wiring/recwirsz.asp

Take a poke around on the website. I used to love it! I'm sure the content is still good even today.
Member
Nov 20, 2008
370 posts
115 upvotes
Halifax, N.S.
nomdesplumes wrote: would replacing my stock speakers in my corolla a cheap first step for better quality sound?
I would do headunit first - Get the "guts" / "foundation" sorted out first and then go from there. That's just my preference.
If you find some speakers on sale right now though, sure.. by all means!

For others wondering about the same question, I feel the attached video from of Jeff@Crutchfield sums it up nicely -
Sr. Member
Jan 12, 2003
776 posts
377 upvotes
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My Phoenix Gold Tantrum 1200.1 keeps ripping subs apart, any suggestion ? :)
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Deal Addict
Dec 28, 2012
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slade wrote: My Phoenix Gold Tantrum 1200.1 keeps ripping subs apart, any suggestion ? :)
13w7


turn down volume

good luck ripping these apart

there used to be a better excursion video online... I'll replace this one if I find it.

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