This AP/AC/TD/CIBC/Visa/AMEX development has major implications for the CC churning landscape in the coming years.
Air Canada, TD, CIBC, Visa and Aimia Reach Agreement for Acquisition of Aeroplan
- Last Updated:
- Mar 4th, 2019 12:41 pm
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- SCORE+3
- Elfwood
- Deal Fanatic
- Oct 22, 2014
- 5443 posts
- 3919 upvotes
- Richmond Hill
- jellytime
- Deal Addict
- Feb 19, 2014
- 3352 posts
- 2339 upvotes
- Langley
- Elfwood
- Deal Fanatic
- Oct 22, 2014
- 5443 posts
- 3919 upvotes
- Richmond Hill
https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/aimia-s ... -1.4244876
Now what? When does AMEX + Aeroplan partnership end?Published Tuesday, January 8, 2019 11:11AM EST
MONTREAL -- Aimia Inc. shareholders voted Tuesday to approve the $450-million sale of its Aeroplan loyalty program to Air Canada, cementing the takeover but leaving questions about Aimia's future.
- efrant [OP]
- Deal Fanatic
- Jan 4, 2011
- 7373 posts
- 9178 upvotes
- Montreal
There was a press release late December stating that Amex is still in negotiations with the soon-to-be owners of Aeroplan. No new developments on that front yet, but I think the expectations are that an agreement will be reached and the partnership will continue.Elfwood wrote: ↑https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/aimia-s ... -1.4244876
Now what? When does AMEX + Aeroplan partnership end?
- bylo
- Deal Expert
- Jan 7, 2002
- 29711 posts
- 29135 upvotes
- Waterloo, ON
Air Canada's most profitable customers fly business class. Those passengers usually pay with AmEx. So AC wants to keep AX in the fold. Of course TD and CM have a somewhat different opinion. Oh, to be a fly at the bargaining table...
veni, vidi, Visa
- mech9t5
- Deal Fanatic
- Dec 16, 2005
- 6907 posts
- 5592 upvotes
Even if the transfer to Air canada program will still be available will it be at the same rate?
- bylo
- Deal Expert
- Jan 7, 2002
- 29711 posts
- 29135 upvotes
- Waterloo, ON
That's the 64,000 AP mile question.
veni, vidi, Visa
- EmilePoursan
- Newbie
- Jan 8, 2019
- 24 posts
- 46 upvotes
In August 2019, Québec will amend its consumer Act. There is a new section that deals with “loyalty programs”. Since Air Canada and Amia are both located in Quebec it is fair to assume that these new rules would apply to them.
http://www2.publicationsduquebec.gouv.q ... 103610.pdf
One section that will need interpretation reads as follow:
“79.6.7. A stipulation that allows the loyalty program merchant to unilaterally increase the exchange units required to obtain goods or a service in a disproportionate manner with respect to the increase of the retail value of the goods or service is prohibited”
I’m curious to see how the “disproportionate manner” will be interpreted once Air Canada absorb Aeroplan. One thing should be clear though, they will have to obey that rule which mean they cannot decrease the value of Aeroplan by 50%, that would be a “disproportionate manner”
http://www2.publicationsduquebec.gouv.q ... 103610.pdf
One section that will need interpretation reads as follow:
“79.6.7. A stipulation that allows the loyalty program merchant to unilaterally increase the exchange units required to obtain goods or a service in a disproportionate manner with respect to the increase of the retail value of the goods or service is prohibited”
I’m curious to see how the “disproportionate manner” will be interpreted once Air Canada absorb Aeroplan. One thing should be clear though, they will have to obey that rule which mean they cannot decrease the value of Aeroplan by 50%, that would be a “disproportionate manner”
- bylo
- Deal Expert
- Jan 7, 2002
- 29711 posts
- 29135 upvotes
- Waterloo, ON
"Disproportionate" means "excessive" or "unreasonable." Those words mean "disproportionate, excessive, unreasonable legal fees" to the lawyers who get to argue their actual meaning in the context of a particular situationEmilePoursan wrote: ↑ I’m curious to see how the “disproportionate manner” will be interpreted once Air Canada absorb Aeroplan. One thing should be clear though, they will have to obey that rule which mean they cannot decrease the value of Aeroplan by 50%, that would be a “disproportionate manner”
In any case Air Canada has other tools in their arsenal when it comes to devaluing points. Remember those multi-$100 fuel surcharges? Well now that oil is near record low prices those surcharges remain and can represent half or more of the cost of a "free" flight compared to a paid one.
veni, vidi, Visa
- Arrgh
- Deal Fanatic
- Feb 15, 2006
- 9183 posts
- 3861 upvotes
- Toronto
AC never said it'll be a 1 to 1 transfer. In fact, since AC has refused to say it's 1 to 1 after so many people asked them, it's pointing to being NOT 1 to 1.
It can be 1.5 to 1, 100 to 1, 1000000 to 1. No matter what, enhancement (err, it means devaluation with AC) is coming.
- prmetime
- Sr. Member
- Feb 8, 2014
- 997 posts
- 535 upvotes
- YVR
Not a lot of point in speculating - only time will tell what will happen. We should always be aware of future devaluation in any award program. It's just another currency.
- bigboy09
- Newbie
- Dec 25, 2017
- 20 posts
- 11 upvotes
Earn and burn.
I don't have high hopes for Air Canada leaving the program competitive, or worthwhile; it's Air Canada after all. Sadly, us Canadians won't have many options. It may be time for me to consider dipping my feet into the US credit card market.
I don't have high hopes for Air Canada leaving the program competitive, or worthwhile; it's Air Canada after all. Sadly, us Canadians won't have many options. It may be time for me to consider dipping my feet into the US credit card market.
- efrant [OP]
- Deal Fanatic
- Jan 4, 2011
- 7373 posts
- 9178 upvotes
- Montreal
The transaction officially closed today. https://aimia.mediaroom.com/2019-01-10- ... Air-Canada
Hopefully we'll get some details soon. I would expect something to come out of Air Canada's Investor Day on February 7.
Hopefully we'll get some details soon. I would expect something to come out of Air Canada's Investor Day on February 7.
- smuncky
- Deal Addict
- Sep 13, 2004
- 2737 posts
- 363 upvotes
From AC: https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2019-01 ... y-Business
Aeroplan Miles will be Honoured on One-to-One Basis in Air Canada's New Loyalty Program when it Launches in 2020
-Customers can continue to earn and redeem Aeroplan Miles with confidence
-Altitude Status and privileges remain unchanged for customers
-Credit card loyalty program and network agreements finalized with TD, CIBC and Visa Canada for future participation in Air Canada's loyalty program
-Agreement in principle entered into with American Express for its continued participation in Air Canada's loyalty program post 2020.
Aeroplan Miles will be Honoured on One-to-One Basis in Air Canada's New Loyalty Program when it Launches in 2020
-Customers can continue to earn and redeem Aeroplan Miles with confidence
-Altitude Status and privileges remain unchanged for customers
-Credit card loyalty program and network agreements finalized with TD, CIBC and Visa Canada for future participation in Air Canada's loyalty program
-Agreement in principle entered into with American Express for its continued participation in Air Canada's loyalty program post 2020.
- efrant [OP]
- Deal Fanatic
- Jan 4, 2011
- 7373 posts
- 9178 upvotes
- Montreal
Thanks for posting the info!smuncky wrote: ↑From AC: https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2019-01 ... y-Business
Aeroplan Miles will be Honoured on One-to-One Basis in Air Canada's New Loyalty Program when it Launches in 2020
-Customers can continue to earn and redeem Aeroplan Miles with confidence
-Altitude Status and privileges remain unchanged for customers
-Credit card loyalty program and network agreements finalized with TD, CIBC and Visa Canada for future participation in Air Canada's loyalty program
-Agreement in principle entered into with American Express for its continued participation in Air Canada's loyalty program post 2020.
Based on the link above, it looks like the Amex/Aeroplan partnership will remain:
In addition, Air Canada has entered into an agreement in principle with American Express Canada, which also issues Aeroplan co-branded products, to secure its continued participation in Air Canada's loyalty program after 2020.
- prmetime
- Sr. Member
- Feb 8, 2014
- 997 posts
- 535 upvotes
- YVR
Thanks for posting this information. I'm glad to see that AP miles will be honoured on a one-to-one basis but I wonder if the redemption rates will be the same?? I'm also happy to see that it looks like Amex will remain as part of the program.smuncky wrote: ↑ From AC: https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2019-01 ... y-Business
Aeroplan Miles will be Honoured on One-to-One Basis in Air Canada's New Loyalty Program when it Launches in 2020
-Customers can continue to earn and redeem Aeroplan Miles with confidence
-Altitude Status and privileges remain unchanged for customers
-Credit card loyalty program and network agreements finalized with TD, CIBC and Visa Canada for future participation in Air Canada's loyalty program
-Agreement in principle entered into with American Express for its continued participation in Air Canada's loyalty program post 2020.
- marty3d
- Member
- Sep 2, 2013
- 357 posts
- 398 upvotes
- Ontario
Redemption rates is the big question. I expect to see something more along the lines of Delta Skymiles where redemption rates are variable (closer to Aeroplan's current Market fares).
The best part of today's news is that Amex will remain part of the program.
- LO5254
- Member
- Oct 10, 2017
- 210 posts
- 150 upvotes
I too received this news through e-mail but it means nothing unless to put it easily everything stays the same with the program at a minimum.
Many have brought up these concerns already but:
1) Will the redemption rates stay the same in all categories?
2) Will the redemption rates vary?
3) will the amount of seats available stay the same, go up or go down?
4) Will the "Aeroplan scamcharges" remain with AC and LH and others?
5) Will the "Aeroplan scamcharges" be added to other airlines that currently don't have them?
6) Will the system be "upgraded" to force you onto AC itineraries rather than star alliance partner itineraries?
7) Will AMEX MR still transfer at 1:1 or will that change? Will they change the minimum transfer from say 1,000 MR points to 5,000 MR points?
Regardless if AMEX is still in or whether the new program will transfer Aeroplan points at 1:1, the above questions need to be answered in a good way for me to continue using Aeroplan?
The other thing is how will TD and CIBC brand their AC "new name perhaps" cards. Without FYF or a higher initial point amount for signing up for their cards, I'm not sure how "worth it" it will be to continue using those cards. Everyone says that CIBC Aventura and TD Travel?Expedia cards are being pushed by those banks more so than any Aeroplan card so i'll be curious how CIBC and TD handle the new program.
Many have brought up these concerns already but:
1) Will the redemption rates stay the same in all categories?
2) Will the redemption rates vary?
3) will the amount of seats available stay the same, go up or go down?
4) Will the "Aeroplan scamcharges" remain with AC and LH and others?
5) Will the "Aeroplan scamcharges" be added to other airlines that currently don't have them?
6) Will the system be "upgraded" to force you onto AC itineraries rather than star alliance partner itineraries?
7) Will AMEX MR still transfer at 1:1 or will that change? Will they change the minimum transfer from say 1,000 MR points to 5,000 MR points?
Regardless if AMEX is still in or whether the new program will transfer Aeroplan points at 1:1, the above questions need to be answered in a good way for me to continue using Aeroplan?
The other thing is how will TD and CIBC brand their AC "new name perhaps" cards. Without FYF or a higher initial point amount for signing up for their cards, I'm not sure how "worth it" it will be to continue using those cards. Everyone says that CIBC Aventura and TD Travel?Expedia cards are being pushed by those banks more so than any Aeroplan card so i'll be curious how CIBC and TD handle the new program.
- peroorim
- Member
- Aug 10, 2005
- 331 posts
- 37 upvotes
- Thornhill
How would I go about redeeming in August 2020?
I understand that current Aeoplan will be bookable only until July 2020. Will the new program be bookable only after July 2020?
Looking to book for the whole family so was hoping to book as early as possible.
I understand that current Aeoplan will be bookable only until July 2020. Will the new program be bookable only after July 2020?
Looking to book for the whole family so was hoping to book as early as possible.
- prmetime
- Sr. Member
- Feb 8, 2014
- 997 posts
- 535 upvotes
- YVR
You can never book more then 355 days out. So you'll likely have more information before you need to book sometime in August/September 2019.
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