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Is allowing international students to work and jump the immigration queue a poor immigration policy in Canada?

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  • Sep 18th, 2018 11:20 pm
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Apr 21, 2004
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Is allowing international students to work and jump the immigration queue a poor immigration policy in Canada?

Education here isn't expensive compared to the States but it's not cheap when rent and cost of living are factored in. I guess it makes it easier for Canada to acquire future skilled working class and for universities to make a decent profit on these enrollments.


https://vancouversun.com/opinion/column ... n-students

The Indo-Canadian community is in turmoil over a recent surge in foreign students from India, whose presence is feeding community tensions amid allegations of financial exploitation, an Indian brain drain, exam cheating, mistreatment of young women, employer abuse, drug dealing and the “stealing” of South Asians’ jobs.

The number of international students from India in Canada has jumped by roughly five times in the past few years, after the federal government in 2012 bucked the trend of other Western nations and made it easier for international students to work and to go to the front of the immigration queue.

In the past it was mostly well-off Indian families who sent their children to Canada to study. But now tens of thousands of low-income Indians, including farming families, are stretching their meagre finances to get their children into the Canadian education system, job market and family immigration stream.

The number of international students in Canada has soared to 500,000, the second highest rate per capita in the world.
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Oct 17, 2015
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Do most of Canadians even know what the hell is going on?
A few years ago one had to be extremely talented or a fraudster to enter Canada. Now anyone with $15000 in bank is very welcome. Try applying for jobs and see what a mess it is already becoming.
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Jul 21, 2013
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The vast majority of professional job vacancies required Canadian work experience. People struggling to find work who have Canadian experience and education should not be looking at new arrivals as the issue.

In the entry level market, there is still a unspoken bias towards Canadian born and educated. Again, new graduates unable to find work should not be looking at their international fellow students as the reason for their struggles.
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Nothing against foreign students for sure.

Only if Canadians or Permanent Residents' spots in trade and postsecondary education aren't displaced unfairly, I would consider the situation okay.

Nothing against India but years ago there was an article about how some test centers were turning a blind eye to fraudulent GMAT exams where other people were sitting in for the actual candidates.

If Canadians or Permanent Residents lose spots because of rigged high school grades and work experience, it probably doesn't sound too fair because graduates with postsecondary degrees often have a leg up.

I know most public universities here are pretty good and heresay is majority of those who want to study postsecondary will get a spot, hopefully not only in liberal arts program but in more practical programs and not in far flung cities way too far from home.
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Jul 21, 2013
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alanbrenton wrote:
Sep 12th, 2018 8:42 am

Only if Canadians or Permanent Residents' spots in trade and postsecondary education aren't displaced unfairly, I would consider the situation okay.

Nothing against India but years ago there was an article about how some test centers were turning a blind eye to fraudulent GMAT exams where other people were sitting in for the actual candidates.
I'm yet to see any evidence based on large amounts of data to support either of these situations, there is always going to be individual incidents of cheating but where is the proof that is it more prevalent in these communities.
alanbrenton wrote:
Sep 12th, 2018 8:42 am

I know most public universities here are pretty good and heresay is majority of those who want to study postsecondary will get a spot, hopefully not only in liberal arts program but in more practical programs and not in far flung cities way too far from home.
There will always be barriers to entry for the programs which result in higher pay upon graduation, public universities should never be in a position where they can guarantee choices for any students (abroad of locally). Furthermore, international students through fees subsidize the local children.

Part of the issue is the Canadian mentality when it comes to trades, far too many parents push their children into university when their child is more suited to a trade, the trades (which are well paid) are then scrambling to find bodies and ultimately rely heavily on migration.
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lestat83 wrote:
Sep 12th, 2018 9:13 am
I'm yet to see any evidence based on large amounts of data to support either of these situations, there is always going to be individual incidents of cheating but where is the proof that is it more prevalent in these communities.



There will always be barriers to entry for the programs which result in higher pay upon graduation, public universities should never be in a position where they can guarantee choices for any students (abroad of locally). Furthermore, international students through fees subsidize the local children.

Part of the issue is the Canadian mentality when it comes to trades, far too many parents push their children into university when their child is more suited to a trade, the trades (which are well paid) are then scrambling to find bodies and ultimately rely heavily on migration.
Actually, I read the article years ago. I am not going to make things up. You need not go further for fact-based support than to look at a country's government corruption ranking. If you think that corruption in the government reported in the media doesn't reflect on the amount of cheating going on elsewhere, I would suggest you think it through again.

Just googling, got me this. I'm sure there are other rankings available. I'm not singling out India but the article I read was about Indian GMAT takers. I cannot include other GMAT takers if the article didn't talk about them.
https://www.transparency.org/news/featu ... index_2017

You know there's a lot of nepotism in apprenticeship programs too right? It's definitely not a shoe-in when it comes to trade.
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AdsJoint wrote:
Sep 12th, 2018 6:44 am
Do most of Canadians even know what the hell is going on?
A few years ago one had to be extremely talented or a fraudster to enter Canada. Now anyone with $15000 in bank is very welcome. Try applying for jobs and see what a mess it is already becoming.
1- yes we do

2- Applied for many jobs, there is no problems at all. If you are applying for jobs and have problems, looks like your the only one. Better yourself?
warming up the earth 1 gas fill-up at a time...
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Oct 17, 2015
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tmkf_patryk wrote:
Sep 12th, 2018 9:50 am
1- yes we do

2- Applied for many jobs, there is no problems at all. If you are applying for jobs and have problems, looks like your the only one. Better yourself?
Thanks for the personal jabs, very helpful to foster meaningful discussion, very RFD like.
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lestat83 wrote:
Sep 12th, 2018 8:27 am
The vast majority of professional job vacancies required Canadian work experience. People struggling to find work who have Canadian experience and education should not be looking at new arrivals as the issue.

In the entry level market, there is still a unspoken bias towards Canadian born and educated. Again, new graduates unable to find work should not be looking at their international fellow students as the reason for their struggles.
Not any more, take a detailed look at recent job posts for Cyber Security Analysts. majority are meant for those with multiple years of experience or for those who have no experience and are currently enrolled in colleges and would like to join early next year. No need of Canadian experience. If you have applied for jobs recently, you will notice almost all of them asking whether you have work permit (not whether you are a citizen)
Looks like discovery of new cheap source of labor right within the country.
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It's gotta be more than 15k ? Arent you required to complete your program? So assuming a community college. Take the bare minimum of 2 years, so thats 30k in tution. Gotta live somewhere. So 1200 a month in rent x 24 months minimim. Thats another 30k right there. Add 15k in expenses like food and clothes.

75k isn't exactly pocket change here.
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Jul 21, 2013
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AdsJoint wrote:
Sep 12th, 2018 10:16 am
Not any more, take a detailed look at recent job posts for Cyber Security Analysts. majority are meant for those with multiple years of experience or for those who have no experience and are currently enrolled in colleges and would like to join early next year. No need of Canadian experience. If you have applied for jobs recently, you will notice almost all of them asking whether you have work permit (not whether you are a citizen)
Looks like discovery of new cheap source of labor right within the country.
They're never going to specifically request Canadian only experience but the vast majority place a premium on it, I've been through the process a number of times. The request for a work permit is due to a lack of candidates with Canadian experience.

It's fairly easy to find out the market rate for most professional jobs, even candidates with work permits can very quickly learn of their market rate and demand the same. The only employers taking advantage of a "cheap source of labour" are those who are not reporting the employees for tax reasons, a tiny minority and its almost always minimum wage jobs.

If you've got an education and have Canadian experience, any influx of foreign workers will not affect your ability to find work.
Member
Oct 17, 2015
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AzNCrAzYcOoLeR wrote:
Sep 12th, 2018 10:39 am
It's gotta be more than 15k ? Arent you required to complete your program? So assuming a community college. Take the bare minimum of 2 years, so thats 30k in tution. Gotta live somewhere. So 1200 a month in rent x 24 months minimim. Thats another 30k right there. Add 15k in expenses like food and clothes.

75k isn't exactly pocket change here.
1200 a month? Haven't you been reading news items about rooming houses catching fire, noise complaints, over crowding? Pls do a quick search on student life in Canada, You will be able to peek inside the rooms that are being shared. Look up tiffin service cost for a month on kijiji for specific ethnic foods. You will be blown out of your socks.
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Dec 24, 2007
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Hmm...how should we respond to thread that tries to link two different things (one is factual) and the other is a false generalized statement about something else, so that it implies that there is a problem with international students having an easy way to become Canadian and and taking away jobs?

The Vancouver Sun article is about certain Indo-students that violate the terms of their studies under the work-study permit (those are facts and it isn't restricted just to Indo students, happens with other students from Brazil, Korea, China, Phillipines, and United States.)

The false generalized statement is that international students get to jump the queue (implying they bypass the system and get in after they graduate). No, they don't automatically becoming Permanent Residents. Canada operates under a point system and points are awarded depending upon what skills the immigrant has and whether those are in demand in Canada and will not be able to be fulfilled by Canadians as our birth rates are too low.

Under the Federal Skilled Worker requirements to be eligible for Permanent Residence, you first must have:

Work experience in a National Occupational Classification skill level 0, A or B ie. Managerial jobs (skill level 0), Professional jobs (skill type A), Technical jobs and skilled trades (skill type B) or
Qualify for Arranged Employment In Canada with a Labour Market Impact Assessment and a full-time, permanent job offer from a Canadian employer; and
Speak English or French.

And then you are awarded points for (must meet 65 points) :
Education Up to 25 points
Language Skills Up to 28 points
Work Experience Up to 15 points
Age Up to 12 points
Arranged Employment Up to 10 points
Adaptability Up to 10 points

Post secondary degrees score up to 25, while high school diploma scores up to 5.

So, yes having a Degree definitely helps as it adds 20 points to the eligbility criteria but it doesn't guarantee that a student will automatically become an immigrant just by obtaining one. Their experience must be in an area that Canada has high demand and then they have the skills and other criteria. So just because you have money doesn't get in.

Fraud and oversight of the program is another issue all together and I totally agree that it should be investigated if people become Permanent Residents under false pretenses.

As for jobs, employers are looking for the best and most highly qualified workers, so if you are losing out on jobs to these new "immigrants" that's on you. Immigrants are probably hungrier and willing to do the hard work considering where they came from. If you are expecting employers to hire you because you are "Canadian" and have a degree, it's time to recognize the reality. It is a global economy and Canadian employers owe you nothing other than a right to be considered equally for a job, otherwise they wouldn't survive.
Last edited by WetCoastGuy on Sep 12th, 2018 7:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Jr. Member
Feb 13, 2017
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Nothing wrong with letting international student works once they finish studies IMO. Abundance of highly educated people will make bigger companies invest more in Canada. Believe it or not this is why so many companies are moving to China, more work force. Not cheaper workforce.

IMO, the problem is new immigrants coming in and entering job market without Canadian education who match Canadian graduates on paper but NOT in reality
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Mar 13, 2018
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cutepoison wrote:
Sep 12th, 2018 3:57 pm
Nothing wrong with letting international student works once they finish studies IMO. Abundance of highly educated people will make bigger companies invest more in Canada. Believe it or not this is why so many companies are moving to China, more work force. Not cheaper workforce.

IMO, the problem is new immigrants coming in and entering job market without Canadian education who match Canadian graduates on paper but NOT in reality
There is no problem as Canadian companies do not recognize foreign credentials or experience unless if it was the states . Even from another province, there's a discount to the experience

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