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Aluminium Wiring

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  • Feb 22nd, 2009 3:25 pm
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May 10, 2005
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CSK'sMom wrote: I think you're missing the big issue here.... Will your (or any insurance company even insure the house with aluminum wiring? Many won't, certificate or not. They will require that in order to get insurance it must all be ripped out and replaced within 30/60 or 90 days of taking possession...
As for resale, sure it can be an issue. A rewired older home will generally be worth more than one that needs to be rewired KWIM?
cabbageroll wrote: Most insurance companies will not insure the property if you tell them the house has aluminum wiring. But they usually only ask when it was upgraded and if its 100 amp or 220, not if its copper or alum.
Problems with aluminum wiring
Reported problems with aluminum wiring have been related to the overheating and failure of aluminum wiring terminations. This is due to the tendency of aluminum wiring to oxidize, and aluminum’s incompatibility with devices designed for use with copper wiring only. Aluminum has a higher rate of expansion than copper wiring, which can lead to loose connections, arcing and melting, eventually fire. Warm cover plates or discolouration of switches or receptacles, flickering lights or the smell of hot plastic insulation may be evidence of poor or improperly made connections.
This is not true. I have aluminum wire as well and I have had two brokers dealing with about 20 companies total. None refused to insure and they were all fairly close in premium costs.
The hazards of aluminum wire was most often in the installation. When this is checked and fixed (if needed) it is as good as copper. As a matter of fact, many (if not most) commercial buildings are wired with aluminum even today. There is no ban on the use of aluminum wire at all. You can use it in housing as well.
arisk wrote: The only real problem with aluminum is perception.
The electrical issues can be addressed.
We now know how to handle aluminum wiring properly.
What happens is people run scared.
Can it affect your resale value?
It could. People hear aluminum and get paranoid.
If that scares away buyers, it's a negative, whether there is any real hazard or not.
Just look at this thread to see the effect.
It can be perfectly safe.
Make sure all connections are properly terminated.
This isn't difficult and a competent DIYer can take a weekend to do it and it won't cost much.
Very correct. There is a fear out there that is unfounded and, if properly researched, one will find that it is as good and as safe as any other wiring.
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Sep 11, 2006
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Insurance companies are really fickle. The first house I had had knob & tube, 60 Amp panel, no problem. 4.5 years ago I bought a different house with aluminum wiring, 60 Amp panel, no question, no problem. Two years later with this house knob & tube iffy but no problem as long as most of it was replaced or I put in things like GFSI (or whatever they are called) outlets ,60 Amp a big problem and had to be replaced instantly, and had their been aluminum, no insurance until it was replaced. Go figure. Same company, never had a claim and very different stories all within 5 years.
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Aug 22, 2003
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Pete, read the OP's own reply in this thread. His insurance company will only cover him with an ESA certificate and because he's an existing customer. He's been told that if he was a new customer they would not insure him, certificate or not. Home insurance is not regulated, in the sense that they have to provide coverage to everyone. Because of that they can get away with pretty much anything that they want. Have the wrong breed of dog and try to get coverage at any price. ;) Aluminum wiring is another of those things that many companies don't want to assume the risk of. They have their targeted property demographics that they are willing to assume risk on and if you don't fall into that demographic you are either SOL or the premiums are atrocious...
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Dec 1, 2003
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My father is an insurance agent and has never ran into an issue where they woulnd't cover someone with aluminum wiring, so this is news to me.

My gf's brother also bought a house with aluminum and had no issues getting insurance for it. He didn't even need an ESA cert.
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Nov 19, 2002
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I have 2 insurance companies for clients, and neither one was concerned about the aluminum wiring in my new home. Dominion of Canada required an ESA cert number (didn`t require a new report, they were happy with the cert from 4 years ago on the home) and a couple of other companies didn`t require the cert at all.
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Nov 26, 2001
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As I mentioned, pig tail copper to the alum. wire to cover the OP's safety concerns, and also look to another insurance company, as many are saying and my self included, this EAS cert. is uncommon.
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Feb 23, 2008
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Personally I would pass on the aluminum wiring or budget it into the price of the house and ask for discounts on the offer based on what the inspector said. For piece of mind and re-saleability I would upgrade to copper.

Someone has to do it as some point. The house isn't going anywhere (unless it burns down) so someone is going to have to tackle the wiring at some point. You have to ask yourself if you are going to be the one to do it? I know insurance companies are more concerned about knob and tube wiring and there are electricians that just do this pretty much daily.

If you like the area you might have to bite the bullet and budget this into renovation budget or be prepared to walk away. The houses in the area are just going to walk away and new houses with upgrades come in and replace them.

Its not that aluminum is bad as people have said but the perception that if it isn't copper. It has the perception of causing more house fires just like knob and tube because it is a softer metal and easier to damage in a renovation, etc

I know in my case when I bought my 30's house it was renovated by the contractor that bought it before me and upgraded to new copper (along with new plumbing pipes, finishes, etc). I couldn't have afforded to buy one of these nice older homes and do this myself based on my current financial obligations (mortgage, car, insurance, food, etc) due to cash flow, etc. It was either buy an older home that someone has renovated near a subway/go train line or have to buy an older home somewhere in the burbs.


Solutions Electrical was used by Mike Holmes and I'm not sure if he has expanded into Ottawa area but used extensively in GTA. Does say up to Belleville on their website so perhaps Ottawa area
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Nov 24, 2002
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Toronto
nornet wrote: Could you tell me if they replaced the wiring from the inside of the house or ran conduit outside to the second floor? Approx what was the cost? Thanks
By code, they're allowed to run a conduit on the outside of the house into the attic. This way they can fish the lines down from the attic into all rooms on the 2nd floor, and use the basement to come up to all rooms on the first.

In my case, I got lucky. There's a conduit (hollow space in the wall) that runs from the basement right up into the attic. It's where the HVAC runs through to some of the bedrooms. So my electrician ran all the wires there w/o showing anything on the outside.

On the outside he did install a new mast and wires, new box for the outside meter, etc.

Basically, every wire in my house, and even the one to the end of my driveway was replaced.
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Nov 24, 2002
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bolmsted wrote: Solutions Electrical was used by Mike Holmes and I'm not sure if he has expanded into Ottawa area but used extensively in GTA. Does say up to Belleville on their website so perhaps Ottawa area
Solutions electrical is VERY expensive. But they do the best job money can buy. You should be able to find a good company to do the job at a fraction of the cost.

A typical 2 story house, rewired from knob & tub + new 100 amp service (including panel) should run about 10,000$ and done in less than a week when multiple guys work on the house.

I got all this done for only 5000$ by a master electrician working out of his van for (25+ years of experience). Took three times as long since it was just him, but he had all the permits, and the city inspector came out and passed his work and did the final tie in + new meter.

So look around ..
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Jul 26, 2004
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CSK'sMom wrote: I think you're missing the big issue here.... Will your (or any insurance company even insure the house with aluminum wiring? Many won't, certificate or not. They will require that in order to get insurance it must all be ripped out and replaced within 30/60 or 90 days of taking possession...
No insurance company I've received quotes from has had any issue or asked for further inspections for my current house. All they asked was if it had aluminum yes or no. I'm also with one of them now.That was when I took possession. They didn't require anything to be done, but I went and replaced everything anyway when I found charred wires. I think the whole issue of being unable to get insurance is blown way out of proportion. I have seen houses change hands here a few times and I know for a fact that they are original; I've never heard of issues with insurance companies refusing coverage except from electricians...and now here.

As long as the connections are done properly there should be no issue. AL wiring is uprated gauge anyway.
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Jan 4, 2007
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leonk wrote: Solutions electrical is VERY expensive. But they do the best job money can buy. You should be able to find a good company to do the job at a fraction of the cost.

A typical 2 story house, rewired from knob & tub + new 100 amp service (including panel) should run about 10,000$ and done in less than a week when multiple guys work on the house.

I got all this done for only 5000$ by a master electrician working out of his van for (25+ years of experience). Took three times as long since it was just him, but he had all the permits, and the city inspector came out and passed his work and did the final tie in + new meter.

So look around ..
A neighbour paid about $5.5 k for a similar style house but in his case there were 4 people on the job. Most trades affiliated with Holmes are about twice the going rate. If that brings you peace of mind, who's to argue.
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fastlayne wrote: Your only concern should be whether or not your insurance company will change its mind on your closing day! Certainly get everything confirmed in writing. You'll have to talk to a lawyer to determine how iron-clad their commitment is to insure the house.

As others have stated, aluminum wiring will not pose a problem. Tightening any outlet or switch wiring that is suspect may be required. And any repeat problems can be dealt with by using a copper pigtail and paste for the splice.
We bought a 70s house as well, with aluminum wiring. My husband's an electrician, and that's all he did. He replaced the easily accessible wiring with new copper, but just spliced the old aluminum that would have been a pain to rewire. Perfectly safe.
My DH just added that one concern with aluminum is that it melts easier than copper when overheated from overloaded circuits for example.
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Prankster wrote: As I mentioned, pig tail copper to the alum. wire to cover the OP's safety concerns, and also look to another insurance company, as many are saying and my self included, this EAS cert. is uncommon.
You see, that is exactly the wrong thing to do. Pig tailing the wires together is what is causing problems. Differential in expansion and contraction under the heating of a load, as well as possible dissimilar metal corrosion. There is a method of connecting copper to aluminum wire but it is very expensive and requires special tools built for only that.
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May 11, 2003
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I was required to get ESA certification for my aluminum wiring. They basically check to see if your outlets and light switches are AL certified. Takes about 15 mins. I think it was about $150 or so.

When I told the inspector that I had pigtailed some parts, he wanted to make sure that I used the special marettes that are designed for copper-aluminum connections. There is also a thermal grease designed to cool the connection. I squeezed a bunch of grease into the special marette just to be on the safe side.

If I were to do it all over again, I would probably pass on the aluminum wiring. But the truth is that copper electrical work done by people with little or no experience is probably far more dangerous that aluminum wiring on its own.
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Pete_Coach wrote: You see, that is exactly the wrong thing to do. Pig tailing the wires together is what is causing problems. Differential in expansion and contraction under the heating of a load, as well as possible dissimilar metal corrosion. There is a method of connecting copper to aluminum wire but it is very expensive and requires special tools built for only that.
Actually the method to connect copper wire to aluminum can easily be done by using a special paste compound called Noalox anti-oxidant, made for that purpose. Any homeowner that knows how to do some electrical can do it, and our house has never burned down, and also it was insured no problem. My husband has been a fully licensed electrical journeyman for 20 years.
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Nov 24, 2002
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Paste does work.. but not sure for how long. It might dry out after a few years, and lose its effectiveness over time.

I think the bottom line from this thread is:

- Aluminum wire is not as bad as the negative perception around it. If handled correctly, it's as safe as copper wire.
- Replace your Aluminum wire in your house only if you feel it'll help you sell your house faster/for more in the future.

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