Shopping Discussion

Amazon 3rd Party Seller Scam

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  • Feb 17th, 2017 9:53 am
Deal Addict
Aug 3, 2005
1757 posts
1143 upvotes
Vancouver

Amazon 3rd Party Seller Scam

On RFD, we see a lot of posts in the Hot Deals section from 3rd party Amazon sellers. Some of you guys who know it is an OBVIOUS scam, but you still buy it anyways because you think that Amazon is going to protect you with their A-Z guarantee.

Well, someone posted on Reddit about how he is currently getting scammed from an Amazon 3rd Party seller.

https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinanc ... _recourse/
On December 30th, I purchased a pair of KEF LS50 speakers through a 3rd party store on Amazon. The speakers are $1500 new, but the company was selling them for $1050. They claimed the speakers were brand new, in the box, never opened.

I did a brief look into the company (https://www.amazon.com/sp?_encoding=UTF ... asStoreID=)

They have 99% positive in the last 12 months (91 ratings). I read the first page of reviews (there is a bad one there now that wasn't there when I purchased) but other then that it seemed legit. The price had me a little concerned $450 off retail for brand new speakers.. so I did some further googling and found some people who also purchased KEF speakers for way under retail cost, some of them said that they received the speakers but the serial numbers were removed from them. Another person explained that sometimes retailers from overseas get the speakers for cheaper, remove the serials and send them to the US to be sold at higher prices. They remove the serial so KEF can't link it back to the original seller. I have no idea if that's true or not, but it seemed reasonable. Either way, I called Amazon up before I purchased the speakers and asked if Amazon would protect the sale if I received the speakers and they were either fake/without a serial number. The woman I spoke to said yes, absolutely. So I purchased the speakers.

On Jan 3rd I received an email that the speakers shipped with this tracking number: 1Z145Y7V0391449227

To be delivered on the 11th... But they never actually shipped. The company created a label but never actually shipped anything on that label. On the 9th I asked them about it:

Order ID 107-5584621-XXXXXXX: 1 of KEF LS50 Mini Monitor - High Gloss Piano Black (Pair)
Is this still on track to be delivered by the 11th?

They responded back on the 9th:

Yes.

The 11th came and the tracking still showed as nothing being sent. I contacted them again that night:

Estimated arrival is today and according to UPS they haven't even received the package yet.. am I getting these speakers or should I look elsewhere?

They responded:

Hello dear buyer, Please see a replacement is being shipped to you ASAP.

They created a new shipping label/tracking: 1Z145Y7V4298720230

With estimated delivery of the 18th. This time they actually shipped something on that label though - but they also included a signature requirement. I had the package address changed to my local UPS store, because I wouldn't be home to sign for it. Should also note, the weight of the package changed to 10lbs from 40lbs on the first label - which made me really skeptical.

The 18th came and I went to the UPS store to pick up the package. The UPS guy pulled out a 8.5x11" shipping packet. I told him that can't be it - they are giant speakers. He said "well this says i4mt3hwin on it" Ok. I signed for it (which I guess was a huge mistake) and brought it home. I figured maybe they sent the wrong the audio item, I'd send it back and either ask for a refund or ask for the speakers again.

Well I got home and opened it and inside was a piece of cardboard:

http://i.imgur.com/liCO3h2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/y5GietW.jpg

And that's it.

I immediately contacted the seller and requested a refund. I also contacted Amazon, because I felt like no serious/real company would just send a piece of cardboard as an order. A different audio item? Ok I can buy that - maybe it got mixed up... but no, literally just a piece of cardboard. I also went and did a little more digging.. so remember that 99% positive over 12 months? Well if you go back 2-3 pages on their reviews, almost all of the reviews are from one guy in the span of one month. Clearly there is something fishy going on with this company. And it kind of bothers me that Amazon has no system to prevent that type of abuse.

So the 3rd party company gets back to me, they send me an email requesting that I ship back the speakers and they will refund me the money. Thing is I never received speakers, I received a cardboard box. I'm not shipping that back to them, I'm not wasting money on that. I awaited Amazon's response.

Well Amazon closed my claim.

We have closed your claim for this order because the order is not eligible for coverage. However, the seller has agreed to issue a refund to you after you return the order as per the instructions listed below. The seller is not obliged to refund the return shipping fees.

-- Return Address: XXXXXX XXXXXX

If you decide to return the order, we recommend following these best practices to be sure that your package arrives and to avoid customs fees.

-- Write "Return Merchandise" and the order number on the package -- Complete any customs forms needed and attach them to the package. -- Insure the package and request signature confirmation delivery service. -- Get a receipt for your return costs from the carrier.

Because your order arrived, the order is eligible for coverage only if an item in the order arrives damaged or does not match the seller’s description. Our investigation shows that you received the correct item and that it did not arrive damaged.

So I called them again and explained again that I did not receive the correct item. I received no item other then a piece of cardboard. So I'm not sure what they are expecting for me to ship back to them. So Amazon contacted me again asking for more information:

To resolve your claim quickly, we need your help to understand what went wrong with order 107-5584621-5027431.

Within 3 business days, please reply to this email with a description of the differences between the item that you ordered and the item that you received. If we do not hear from you within 3 business days, we will close your claim until we receive your reply.

We look forward to hearing from you.

-- Date of Claim: January 18, 2017 -- Claim Amount: $1049.99

So I send them this:

I ordered a pair of $1000 KEF LS50 speakers. I received a small piece of cardboard in a shipping packet.

This is what I ordered: http://dagogo.com/wp-content/uploads/20 ... 0x1000.jpg

This is what I Received: http://i.imgur.com/liCO3h2.jpg

This is what the cardboard came in: http://i.imgur.com/y5GietW.jpg

Which obviously can't fit 40 pound speakers.

On the 23rd I get another email back from Amazon:

We have closed your claim for order 107-5584621-5027431 because the tracking information below shows that someone at your address signed for the package. This order is not eligible for the A-to-z Guarantee because it arrived at your address.

So basically now they are telling me that they can't help because I signed/received the order. Which is a little ridiculous to me. Like in this case, yeah - like obviously speakers aren't fitting into that little package, but at the time I felt the package (there was something clearly inside which turned out to be just cardboard) I figured they sent the wrong item, so I figured I'd send it back to them. But what if they sent a big box with bricks in it? Would I just have been equally screwed for signing for it?

Either way, I contacted Amazon get - this time I spoke to a manager and I explained everything. Not only did she agree with me that I should get my money back, but she agreed that the reviews on the company seemed strange and she wanted to push that through and re-escalate my A-Z Claim.

Well today I got another response from the claims:

While we understand your concern, we are unable to assist you with this purchase. As previously stated for your order 107-5584621-5027431 because the tracking information below shows that someone at your address signed for the package. This order is not eligible for the A-to-z Guarantee because it arrived at your address.

Again I called Amazon - this time I spoke to a different manager who said "I shouldn't have signed for the package, Amazon can't help me" essentially.

So I'm sitting here wondering now, what am I supposed to do? I paid for the speakers on my Chase Card and I contacted them. They have to file a dispute which can take 7-10 days to even start it. In the long run I'm going to continue pursuing that - but I've read stories of people's Amazon accounts being closed for disputing large purchases. I buy tons of stuff through Amazon (Prime Member) and I would be really annoyed if they closed my account over this. That being said, I want my money back and I feel like it's ridiculous that Amazon won't cover me because I signed for the package despite nothing being inside of it.

Is there anything else I can do or someone I can contact? The 3rd party store no longer responds to my emails so that's out of the question.

TLDR: Bought speakers through 3rd party store on Amazon. They shipped me a piece of cardboard instead of speakers. Contacted Amazon who told me several times that they can't help me get my money back because I signed for the package.
I'll Keep It Short and Sweet. Family, Religion, Friendship ... These Are the Three Demons You Must Slay if You Wish to Succeed in Business
36 replies
Deal Addict
Jul 6, 2005
4451 posts
2139 upvotes
Toronto
yikes.

First mistake was definitely signing for the package sight unseen.

Hopefully that guy can do a chargeback if bought on a credit card.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Sep 19, 2002
7843 posts
9202 upvotes
Vancouver
No surprise here.

When these fake sellers started popping up a year or two ago, I posted in a couple threads warning this could happen. Of course, some idiots think A-z guarantee is a golden shield.
Deal Addict
Nov 28, 2013
3234 posts
1383 upvotes
Quebec
I mean no offense to you, but how amazon would know that you didn't atually received the headphone and is not trying to scam them?

So i can understand their side too
Member
May 29, 2016
498 posts
284 upvotes
I think the issue is that Amazon may have already paid out to the seller. Usually the process of getting a payout is long when you are just starting off as a seller, but since this seller had 90+ sales (allegedly), they must have received expedited payment meant for established sellers. At this point, siding with the buyer would mean Amazon taking that money from their bottom line and giving it to this guy. Who is an idiot if you ask me. What kind of a fool buys a 1000+ dollar product from a 3rd party seller without doing every bit of research that is humanly possible? Looking at the 2nd page of reviews would have told him what he needed to know.
ratatapa wrote: I mean no offense to you, but how amazon would know that you didn't atually received the headphone and is not trying to scam them?

So i can understand their side too
Maybe the fact that the manufacterers spec says the speakers way 40 lbs but the ups label was for a 10 lb package? But that info would require someone who actually gives a sh*t to do some real research. No CS agent probably cares that much.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Sep 19, 2002
7843 posts
9202 upvotes
Vancouver
50/50 chance a charge back will fail. The credit card company is disputing Amazon who will provide signature proof of delivery. Credit card company will ask buyer to send the package back. Seller will claim a fraudulent return or simply not accept the package back.

This is a game you don't want to be playing just to get your money back.
Deal Guru
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
13006 posts
10009 upvotes
Edmonton
I dunno... If I'm expecting a pair of speakers from a questionable seller, each about a foot cubed, and the "package" is an envelope, there's no way I'm walking out of the UPS office with that.

Some people are just asking to be screwed over.

C
Deal Fanatic
Jul 24, 2009
6578 posts
9073 upvotes
I told people early in other thread that the reviews about the sellers can be fake. Now the some of the items from the top 100 popular are SCAM too.
Deal Addict
Oct 2, 2006
1298 posts
258 upvotes
should have recorded the opening of the package
Deal Addict
Aug 10, 2013
2403 posts
671 upvotes
Toronto
That is awful but I don't understand the logic here I order a ton of items online at any given time, so if I ordered speakers and a smaller package came I would
Assume it wasn't the speakers and something else and sign for it! You need to call Amazon and escalate this as high as possible. I got scammed one time
On Amazon for $10 and I was so mad I can't imagine a 1k purchase someone would've had to die lol
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 28, 2005
3167 posts
1209 upvotes
Montreal
thanks for posting this, OP

it certainly exposes the holes in Amazon.ca

Amazon should get rid of all 3rd party sellers and focus on improving their own reputation.
Last edited by marc_t on Jan 25th, 2017 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Client at: Tangerine, VoIP.ms, Virgin Mobile
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Oct 8, 2006
5666 posts
656 upvotes
Toronto
Not sure will it help, but you could take a picture of the package (yellow envelope with all the tracking details), maybe that will convince them.
Deal Fanatic
Jul 13, 2012
8501 posts
1053 upvotes
Occupied Ottawa
Keep in mind some scammers will legitimately sell a bunch of cheap items to build up good feedback, and then start scamming by listing a bunch of expensive items they don't actually send, figuring they can "sell" a lot of them before the bad feedback starts coming in.
Deal Fanatic
Jul 24, 2009
6578 posts
9073 upvotes
I believe if that person still got claim deny from Amazon after the escalation , I suggest he/she email to Amazon CEO (jeff@amazon.com). If Amazon is still not willing to refund, then send the story to different media.

Also, according to the "A-to-z Claim Conditions" from Amazon, it doesn't mention anything about signing the package and I don't believe it is relevant. For example, SCAMMERS can send me a box of rock and I don't know until I sign the package and open the box. When submitting a claim you have to point out that you meet one of "A-to-z Claim Conditions" which is "The item you received was damaged, defective, or materially different from the item represented on the product detail page".

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/help/customer/ ... =201516940

I admit the concept of third-party seller from Amazon is totally screwed up lately. Basically, I can see different scammers everyday setup as third-party sellers in different product categories. Now, I won't order anything from third-party sellers except one or two regardless how good is the deal. The savings does not worth for the hassle and trouble.
Sr. Member
Nov 28, 2007
560 posts
248 upvotes
Etobicoke
I'm just amazed that when you saw the small box that in no way could have fit your speakers, not only did you sign for it, but walked out of the UPS store with a way too light box without opening it in the store at least. At least this way you could have a witness at the UPS store (which may or may not do much but still.

Damn that really sucks, now I'll be sure not to order anything from 3rd party sellers.

I hope you can get a refund/chargeback, or at least a partial refund. Ugh that's a lot of money.
Deal Addict
Nov 28, 2013
3234 posts
1383 upvotes
Quebec
lcmt wrote: I believe if that person still got claim deny from Amazon after the escalation , I suggest he/she email to Amazon CEO (jeff@amazon.com). If Amazon is still not willing to refund, then send the story to different media.

Also, according to the "A-to-z Claim Conditions" from Amazon, it doesn't mention anything about signing the package and I don't believe it is relevant. For example, SCAMMERS can send me a box of rock and I don't know until I sign the package and open the box. When submitting a claim you have to point out that you meet one of "A-to-z Claim Conditions" which is "The item you received was damaged, defective, or materially different from the item represented on the product detail page".

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/help/customer/ ... =201516940

I admit the concept of third-party seller from Amazon is totally screwed up lately. Basically, I can see different scammers everyday setup as third-party sellers in different product categories. Now, I won't order anything from third-party sellers except one or two regardless how good is the deal. The savings does not worth for the hassle and trouble.
Why always bring shit to media?

The OP is 100% in error for SIGNING IN.

Maybe he did get scammed, if yes it sucks. But he signed for a package as of now there is no way to prove his point.

Even if UPS showed 10LBs instead of 40LBS, by singing, OP agreed to 'this mightve been a typo on the site, and the client accepted the package AS IS"
Deal Expert
Aug 22, 2006
31271 posts
17295 upvotes
ratatapa wrote: The OP is 100% in error for SIGNING IN.
This is ridiculous.
Signing only acknowledges RECEIPT of the package.
Guess what? I have a mailbox service that signs for EVERYTHING.

They don't know if I ordered speakers or am expecting a document.

Some people get stuff shipped to work. They'll also sign for everything.

Besides... what if the seller shipped the speaker boxes but filled it with rocks?
Then what?
Do you not have anything else to do rather than argue with strangers on the internet
Nope. That's why I'm on the internet arguing with strangers. If I had anything better to do I'd probably be doing it.
Deal Fanatic
Jul 24, 2009
6578 posts
9073 upvotes
So you suggest that person should refuse the package, then he/she may not qualify for the claim if the return has no tracking. I cannot guarantee the return has tracking for international package. Here is one of the A-to-z Claim Conditions : "Note: If you refuse the package and the return does not have tracking information, your claim may not be covered.". He/she maybe a little bit stupid to sign it when he/she knows the package is absolutely not the right item. However, signing a package should not be considered under the claim condition. It just means that person received the package, but it doesn't mean he received the right item. If you sign it and receive a box of rocks, is that mean you are not qualify for the claim ???? If yes, then nobody will ever order anything from marketplace sellers from Amazon.

For those people rely on the claim even you know the sellers are SCAM, there is a lifetime limit on the claim. If you repeatedly filing a claim, you are running into risk of (1) permanently account suspension (2) reach the lifetime claim limit.

You are limited to a lifetime maximum of fifty claims for purchases from sellers on the Amazon.ca website. Withdrawn claims do not count towards this maximum. Customers who pay for purchases from an Amazon seller via the Amazon.ca website are eligible to receive up to $2,500 CAD of the purchase price, including shipping charges.


https://www.amazon.ca/gp/help/customer/ ... =201516920

ratatapa wrote: Why always bring shit to media?

The OP is 100% in error for SIGNING IN.

Maybe he did get scammed, if yes it sucks. But he signed for a package as of now there is no way to prove his point.

Even if UPS showed 10LBs instead of 40LBS, by singing, OP agreed to 'this mightve been a typo on the site, and the client accepted the package AS IS"
Deal Addict
Nov 28, 2013
3234 posts
1383 upvotes
Quebec
death_hawk wrote: This is ridiculous.
Signing only acknowledges RECEIPT of the package.
Guess what? I have a mailbox service that signs for EVERYTHING.

They don't know if I ordered speakers or am expecting a document.

Some people get stuff shipped to work. They'll also sign for everything.

Besides... what if the seller shipped the speaker boxes but filled it with rocks?
Then what?
When he sees the package at UPS, he says 'hey this package seems fishy' and ask question about possible returns, or calls amazon at UPS before accepting the package.

If you're at work, well you go where they received the package and goes like 'hey i'm waiting for a package but please don'T sign it call me before'

it's not hard. He was careless. sucks but that's the truth. If he was unsure even when he bought it, he shouldve taken extra steps for security

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