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UBIQUITI ERPOE-5 Edgerouter PoE-Router-Desktop, Wall-Mountable-Black | 16% Off | $174.99

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  • Feb 28th, 2020 10:44 am
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LOL cmon man, there is nothing PRO about these lower end products.

Nerds eat up the marketing from these things because they are not regular brands like linksys, dlink, tplink.

Routers from 10-15 years ago running DD-WRT like WRT54G are pretty much the same device as these lower end ubiquiti line. No regular consumer is going to pump out 50Mbps+ 95th percentile. So why bother?
Mir wrote: These are not a consumer product.
Perhaps these are SOHO or Prosumer product.
Last edited by sexyj on Feb 20th, 2020 12:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
The sweetest gyal
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Sure, its not as power efficient but at the same time I can run other things without additional devices.

pi-hole, NAS, download box, plex etc...

Power efficient don't mean jack when you are also spending power on other devices. People who buy ubiquti is not going to just have a router in their network...
Emporium wrote: pfsense is great (especially if you plan to use IDS/IPS with add-on packages like Snort and Suricata), but you are not building any power efficient pfsense box for such a low cost.
The ERpoe-5 max power consumption is 60W, and that is assuming the full 50W PoE budget is used. So the unit itself is only consuming max 10W. No budget PC will run pfsense comfortably, and use anywhere as low power consumption. Now, if you have a spare Intel NUC lying around, sure it can come close, but the NUC is not cheap. The parts costs start to add up on custom builds (mobo, cpu, power supply, memory, storage, multiport intel nic, etc..). Not sure you are paying that much of a premium for an all enclosed refined box (which does include PoE, which is great to power remote access points).

I have an ERLite‑3 myself (which now sells for $115), and have no issues with it. Works like a charm, and rock solid out of the box. It has the Same CPU, same amount of memory, and same throughput and pps as the ERpoe5. As far as I can tell, only difference is the built in switch and PoE on the ERpoe5. So if you don't need the extra ports or PoE, then the ERLite3 is just as good, for cheaper. I use 2 Cisco APs myself (just because I had them), and I power those using standalone power injectors which I had gotten with the APs.

However, even though I am happy with my ERLite-3, I do think it is time for Ubiquiti to refresh the whole edgerouter lineup (and the USG for that matter), with some newer, more powerful CPUs. Something like the ERlite-3 has been around for nearly 8 years with no change (except for case changing from plastic to metal I believe). CPUs have changed leaps and bounds since then. With more and more people wanting more security, it would be nice to be able to enable IDS/IPS on these devices without a HUGE performance hit. Something like their new Dream Machine, but in a more traditional form factor, and drop the wifi to allow flexible choices (many of us prefer a separate route/security gateway from our access points).
The sweetest gyal
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Zarkey wrote: Average person doesn't really benefit from this.
I would dispute this all day long.
Even here, you see threads almost weekly saying "my router sucks! help" in one way or another.
So while it seems like overkill, I would argue that most consumer routers are severely underkill.
Emporium wrote:
pfsense is great (especially if you plan to use IDS/IPS with add-on packages like Snort and Suricata), but you are not building any power efficient pfsense box for such a low cost.
Just to be pedantic, Netgate does offer an "appliance" based thing that is pretty low powered. It's also not cheap (around the same price as this or even more) but it doesn't take much power.

sexyj wrote:
Routers from 10-15 years ago running DD-WRT like WRT54G are pretty much the same device as these lower end ubiquiti line.
WRT54GL sucked when it was mainstream. It just sucked the least because everything else sucked more.
To compare it to literally anything today is a joke.
Do you not have anything else to do rather than argue with strangers on the internet
Nope. That's why I'm on the internet arguing with strangers. If I had anything better to do I'd probably be doing it.
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death_hawk wrote: I would dispute this all day long.
Even here, you see threads almost weekly saying "my router sucks! help" in one way or another.
So while it seems like overkill, I would argue that most consumer routers are severely underkill.
I was talking as in more features being overkill for average person making it more expensive than similar hardware. Pretty sure when they say the router sucks they mean their wireless components, which this doesn't have.
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sexyj wrote: LOL cmon man, there is nothing PRO about these lower end products.
Routers from 10-15 years ago running DD-WRT like WRT54G are pretty much the same device as these lower end ubiquiti line.
Nerds eat up the marketing from these things because they are not regular brands like linksys, dlink, tplink.
That is big wrong assumption on your end.
When I bought this product, I had following requirement in that order.

1. ASIC Line base speed TCP packets 1 Gbps
2. Rock Solid enterprise stability
3. Multi Vlan NAT/Pat support
4. Intervlan routing.
5. 60 Mbps + IpSec tunnel/SSL tunnel.
7. Mature proven historical record
8. Fanless + Low power requirment
9. Central Management software
10. Air Gap between vlans
11. Some sort of threat management capbility (IDS/IPS)
12 License free model system
13 Throughput control (Bi Directional)
14 DHCP options (150, 42)

Only few were fitting the bill.
Ubiquiti has better Echo system

sexyj wrote:
No regular consumer is going to pump out 50Mbps+ 95th percentile. So why bother?
A what now!
Here is a USG, I just did a fresh test just for you!
Image
Here is a 50Mbps + ! results.
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sexyj wrote: Sure, its not as power efficient but at the same time I can run other things without additional devices.

pi-hole, NAS, download box, plex etc...

Power efficient don't mean jack when you are also spending power on other devices. People who buy ubiquti is not going to just have a router in their network...
I have ubiquiti, and I don't waste too much power. Don't need a server running 300W+ to run these services. Ubiquiti router, and 2 PoE access points. All other services (NAS, Pi-hole, download box, Surveillance station for my IP Cams, etc..) all run on my Synoloogy NAS server. I'm not a fan of Plex, but I could have ran that also on the synology. The Synology (DS1817+) runs at about 30W at idle and 60W at full access with 8 enterprise class drives installed. So it is pretty reasonable, and less than most mini-servers would use. No, I am not running any IDS/IPS either. But for now, I don't "need" it. It is a nice to have, and will eventually. But I will wait till ubiquiti releases their new edgerouter or USG lines. Just no affordable/justifiable solution for home use yet.

Yes, you pay a premium for ubiquiti and synology devices. But you set them up, and forget about them. I don't need to constantly tinker with them. I have an APC Smart-UPS 1500 that they are all connected to (along with my VoIp ATA), and the only times I reboot them, is for firmware updates, otherwise, they just keep chugging along.
I've already done home DIY NAS servers, and pfsense/Snort/Suricata servers in the past. They are very powerful, and YES more flexible. But I just no longer have the patience to tinker with them any more and don't need the IDS/IPS features. And overall, they do use up more power than these pre made devices. Pfsense/Snort/Suricata combined need some decent horsepower to run properly at decent speeds.
TE7 wrote: Would this pfsense box be power efficient enough for you?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3259848 ... JustForYou
First of all, I'm not creating an ali account just to view the link (for some reason, it insists on a login, just to view).
But I used google cache to see it, and energy efficient, sure it is. But it's still USD$125 + shipping + taxes and duties which you may get dinged with (you win some, and lose some). And you will probably wait 2 months (if not more now with the outbreak in china). So after spending close to CDN$200, you will have a no-name brand machine with a warranty that is not worth the paper it may be printed on, which will still only run pfsense, and still no Snort & Suricata at any decent speeds. For CDN$115, you can get the ERLite-3, which has a warranty, decent build quality, and pretty much the same performance as that box. So what's the point ?
Edgerouter is not any more difficult to set up than any pfsense installation. The basic install of one, or the other, is quite simple. The more advanced features/options are just as complicated on one or the other.
Oh ya, and I hope that you flush and do a clean install of pfsense on that box (should someone decide to buy). Not sure I'd trust any install that comes from anyone (especially vendors on Ali).

If something goes wrong and I'm out of town, I like to be able to tell the wife, to just power cycle the router & modem, and not have to worry about corrupting some disk which may no longer boot if it is done at the wrong time (been there, done that). Oh ya, and I keep my old Asus AC3200 configured and in a box on the shelf, "just in case" for when I am out of town.

Different people prefer different things. And there are different devices for different levels of technical knowledge, and depending on the amount of fine tuning you are willing to do regularly. I do enough of it on a daily basis at work, and have no interest to tinker more than I need to when I get home :)

Not saying one solution is BETTER than the OTHER. Just saying there are options out there, and everyone needs to choose what is right for them, depending on what they "need", how much they want to spend, and what their technical capabilities are, etc..
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Any this is why I said nerds eat this up. All the things you listed is so extra other than the ones that actually affect performance. It made absolutely no sense to do it in a regular household.
Mir wrote: ..
When I bought this product, I had following requirement in that order.

snipped

I'm talking about 95th percentile for the month. You can do a speedtest.. wow!

What's your 95th percentile for the month? Use more than 16TB per month? If not, you proved my point.
Mir wrote: Image
Here is a 50Mbps + ! results.
Last edited by sexyj on Feb 20th, 2020 11:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
The sweetest gyal
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You just proved my point.

The people who run ubiquiti is not just gonna have a router going. Your point of power consumption is meh at best.

If I have a server that runs all of those, why would I want another device?
Emporium wrote: All other services (NAS, Pi-hole, download box, Surveillance station for my IP Cams, etc..) all run on my Synoloogy NAS server.
The sweetest gyal
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Yes, we all know you want to run enterprise gear at your house. LOL
death_hawk wrote: WRT54GL sucked when it was mainstream. It just sucked the least because everything else sucked more.
To compare it to literally anything today is a joke.
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sexyj wrote: You just proved my point.

The people who run ubiquiti is not just gonna have a router going. Your point of power consumption is meh at best.

If I have a server that runs all of those, why would I want another device?
You prove nothing.
You don't want your DATA (which is on your NAS) to be on the device that secures your perimeter. That's just pure stu%$#y.
Any authorized access into my network, from the outside, goes through VPN, secured by certificate. So even accessing my NAS to check my security cams, I VPN in first, then access it. There is nothing in my network that is forward facing to the internet. Other than VPN, the rest is closed inbound.

Even though my NAS can act as a router technically, it makes no sense. Each device has it's purpose.

And power consumption is STILL an issue.. Like I said.. NAS uses at most 60W. Most DIY servers out there don't even idle at that.
And this has nothing to do with NAS services. This has to do with a DEVICE that secures the perimeter of your network. The EDGE.
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8008135 wrote: The USG appears to be getting a refresh via the "UMG-Pro" https://community.ui.com/questions/Intr ... 2d77702872
Interesting.. Thnx. could be interesting. Will wait to see what the real world performance results are like, and where they decide to price it.

I've been looking at the UDM-Pro (3.5 Gbps IDS/IPS Throughput is interesting), but it is still about $600. Ouch. Don't "need" it yet. It's an awesome price compared to other enterprise offerings (like those from the like of Fortinet, Cisco, etc..), but just too much for now, for home.
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Emporium wrote: Interesting.. Thnx. could be interesting. Will wait to see what the real world performance results are like, and where they decide to price it.

I've been looking at the UDM-Pro (3.5 Gbps IDS/IPS Throughput is interesting), but it is still about $600. Ouch. Don't "need" it yet. It's an awesome price compared to other enterprise offerings (like those from the like of Fortinet, Cisco, etc..), but just too much for now, for home.
It has to be significantly less than the UDM Pro otherwise nobody will buy it. Even the UDM Pro has been hit and miss according to reddit and the forums. Seems like it should have stayed in beta for a bit longer. I've already got a ckg2+ and would jump all over this if the price was right. The USG does its job well but I'd like to be able to use my full connection with IDS/IDP turned on.
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As others have noted, the Ubiquiti gear is more expensive, and harder to set up. However, the extra cost and time spent are more than paid off in terms of reliability. Our network, with an Edgerouter Lite and two Unifi APs, is rock-solid and the only time these units reboot is either after a firmware update or a power failure. Other than that, they just sit there and work. For me, it's something fun to play with, and for the rest of the family they never have to even think about their Internet connections - so no need for tech support even with multiple dozens of devices in active use.
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Zarkey wrote:
I was talking as in more features being overkill for average person making it more expensive than similar hardware. Pretty sure when they say the router sucks they mean their wireless components, which this doesn't have.
Just because it has certain features doesn't mean one has to use them.
I won't argue cost because Ubquiti or pfSense gear is more expensive up front, but considering that some people are buying new routers every year because of one reason or another means those costs can easily far exceed what a one time hurt of a better router would cost.

Also there's a thread in Computers right now where a user says his router is crashing all the time with nothing to do with wireless.
TE7 wrote:
Would this pfsense box be power efficient enough for you?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3259848 ... JustForYou
No AES-NI on the J1900.
If you're hell bent on one of these, get one with at least a i3-4005U which does have AES-NI.
Personally I'd also look for Intel NICs too but I'm a snob against Realtek.
Now you're looking at over $200USD.

I actually have a Qotom and it performs pretty well. I have about a year and a half uptime on it.
Mir wrote: Here is a 50Mbps + ! results.
95th percentile means something different.
Basically it's saying you're sustaining about 50mbps for 95% of the month after the other 5% that's higher than 50mbps is discarded.
This is how commercial internet is typically billed.

It's a pretty terrible benchmark for a router since even a consumer router should be able to handle that without that many issues.
Not that a speed test is that great either, but I'd rather see what it can burst at rather than sustain unless you're sustaining what you burst (ie 95th at 900mbps)
sexyj wrote: Yes, we all know you want to run enterprise gear at your house. LOL
And yet... I'm the one with the fewest issues.

And I don't want to run, I do run enterprise gear. Well a good portion of it anyways. There's a few consumer things I can't avoid easily.
Do you not have anything else to do rather than argue with strangers on the internet
Nope. That's why I'm on the internet arguing with strangers. If I had anything better to do I'd probably be doing it.
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LOL, it's not on the same device when you can easily spin up VM's.

You are literally just proving my point left and right.
Emporium wrote: You prove nothing.
You don't want your DATA (which is on your NAS) to be on the device that secures your perimeter. That's just pure stu%$#y.
Any authorized access into my network, from the outside, goes through VPN, secured by certificate. So even accessing my NAS to check my security cams, I VPN in first, then access it. There is nothing in my network that is forward facing to the internet. Other than VPN, the rest is closed inbound.

Even though my NAS can act as a router technically, it makes no sense. Each device has it's purpose.

And power consumption is STILL an issue.. Like I said.. NAS uses at most 60W. Most DIY servers out there don't even idle at that.
And this has nothing to do with NAS services. This has to do with a DEVICE that secures the perimeter of your network. The EDGE.
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death_hawk wrote:
No AES-NI on the J1900.
If you're hell bent on one of these, get one with at least a i3-4005U which does have AES-NI.
Personally I'd also look for Intel NICs too but I'm a snob against Realtek.
Now you're looking at over $200USD.

I actually have a Qotom and it performs pretty well. I have about a year and a half uptime on it.
That was just an example as he was babbling about Ubiquiti power efficiency and about having server using 300W+ power to achieve the same as his Ubiquiti router.
So far AES-NI is not required on pfsense and won't be required in v2.5 so investing in i3 or better processor would be only for future proofing.
I agree that Intel NIC are way to go and there are many Qotom or similar boxes having them in the same price range.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... =0&_sop=15
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tvisforme wrote: As others have noted, the Ubiquiti gear is more expensive, and harder to set up. However, the extra cost and time spent are more than paid off in terms of reliability. Our network, with an Edgerouter Lite and two Unifi APs, is rock-solid and the only time these units reboot is either after a firmware update or a power failure. Other than that, they just sit there and work. For me, it's something fun to play with, and for the rest of the family they never have to even think about their Internet connections - so no need for tech support even with multiple dozens of devices in active use.
Ehhh

I get it - you guys want to use this "enterprise-lite" hardware to be cool -- but "the extra cost and time spent are more than paid off in terms of reliability" isn't true...

An ASUS router is just as reliable
Last edited by JustinZ on Feb 21st, 2020 1:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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