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  • Sep 5th, 2017 10:51 pm
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Jr. Member
Feb 17, 2017
104 posts
36 upvotes
ml88888888 wrote:
Jun 14th, 2017 6:33 pm
Not directly. Do you think the bank would like to pay and not recover that cost from the merchants? The merchants would pass the cost to the consumers when the banks charge them.
In the long term, there is very little cost to the bank as mobile payments lower fraud rates (the device gives the card machine a one time token) so data breaches don't affect the bank. Lower fraud rates is good for everyone. In the very long term, psychical card issuance may even be optional (I.e just have the card on your phone).
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Mar 23, 2004
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ml88888888 wrote:
Jun 14th, 2017 5:23 pm
The only benefits is to Apple or Android which the credit card companies has to pay a commission for every transactions we use.
CanadianSpruce wrote:
Jun 14th, 2017 6:22 pm
The bank pays a fee to the mobile wallet provider.
Actually Android Pay is free for all parties involved (you, merchants, banks). Google wants your spending data/pattern, they are not interested in collecting fees.

Source: https://techcrunch.com/2017/05/31/andro ... to-canada/
「もし、奇跡を起こせたら……」
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ml88888888 wrote:
Jun 14th, 2017 5:23 pm
I don't see any benefit of using Android or Apple pay except not carrying the plastic cards in your wallet. The only benefits is to Apple or Android which the credit card companies has to pay a commission for every transactions we use. Actually we the users will be the losers since credit card companies will charge a higher fee to merchants or give the credit card holders a lower reward to compensate the charges they have to pay to Android or Apple.
That is why I would never use neither pay systems.
One massive benefit is that the information transmitted from your phone to the merchant and then up the chain is useless to criminals and cannot be reused if stolen.

You could use Apple Pay / Android Pay at the shadiest scummy looking merchant you could imagine and the info sent from your phone to them could be captured and sold to the black market and be 100% useless.

Think of it like carrying 1000 credit cards in your wallet that are self-destructing after one-time use. The 2nd attempt to use it will never be authorized.
You could use a disposable card like this wherever you want :)

Carrying one phone is smaller than carrying 1000 disposable credit cards though.
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Sr. Member
Nov 30, 2011
658 posts
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GTA
I have a CIBC visa card in my Android Pay App. When I pay at a merchant a Virtual number is transmitted. It appears to be the same virtual number every time. So the merchant doesn't even get the real card nber. That's pretty smart at preventing fraud.
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westcoastyvr wrote:
Jun 16th, 2017 10:18 pm
I have a CIBC visa card in my Android Pay App. When I pay at a merchant a Virtual number is transmitted. It appears to be the same virtual number every time. So the merchant doesn't even get the real card nber. That's pretty smart at preventing fraud.
That's what my post above is describing.

Not only is it a virtual #, but with the most modern tech a unique cryptogram is sent with the virtual card # that is verified upstream and cannot be reused. It is one-time use.

Even with the "not-the-most-modern" tech, a virtual CVV is sent (the 3-digits on the back) that are securely generated for 'one-time' use.

This is why I said it's like, at a minimum, carrying 1000 different cards. Those numbers on the back range from 000-999.

"MSD" is the old tech (magnetic stripe data), and it can't send the more advanced cryptogram so it sends the randomly rotating virtual CVV.

Only the phone and the proper upstream server that knows the secret setup your phone was initialized with can predict what the next correct CVV will be for your card (and it varies based on input from the transaction as well).

It is very secure. And if it is in any way compromised you can just delete the card and add it back to Android/Apple Pay without affecting the physical card or any pre-auth charges you have setup with it.

If everyone switched to mobile payment, fraud from stolen card info should drop by quite a bit.
POLL: How frequent is your RRSP-matching?
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Mar 23, 2004
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ace604 wrote:
Jun 17th, 2017 12:03 am
That's what my post above is describing.

Not only is it a virtual #, but with the most modern tech a unique cryptogram is sent with the virtual card # that is verified upstream and cannot be reused. It is one-time use.

Even with the "not-the-most-modern" tech, a virtual CVV is sent (the 3-digits on the back) that are securely generated for 'one-time' use.

This is why I said it's like, at a minimum, carrying 1000 different cards. Those numbers on the back range from 000-999.

"MSD" is the old tech (magnetic stripe data), and it can't send the more advanced cryptogram so it sends the randomly rotating virtual CVV.

Only the phone and the proper upstream server that knows the secret setup your phone was initialized with can predict what the next correct CVV will be for your card (and it varies based on input from the transaction as well).

It is very secure. And if it is in any way compromised you can just delete the card and add it back to Android/Apple Pay without affecting the physical card or any pre-auth charges you have setup with it.

If everyone switched to mobile payment, fraud from stolen card info should drop by quite a bit.
Hardcore stuff, and here i tam thinking why it uses the same *and* different number everytime.
「もし、奇跡を起こせたら……」
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angel_wing0 wrote:
Jun 17th, 2017 12:12 am
Hardcore stuff, and here i tam thinking why it uses the same *and* different number everytime.
I could see how it could sound contradictory which is why I followed up with more info right away :)

Every time you add a physical card to a new device you get a new virtual card #, and that IS used repeatedly, but with unique additional info required each transaction that cannot be predicted.

The first try at fraud with your info has a virtually 0% chance at being approved with the cryptogram, and a 0.1% chance at succeeding if using the oldschool MSD with the generated 3-digit CVV.

If fraud attempt was detected on a virtual card they can just cancel it and get you to re-add card to device and the thief can't even try a 2nd time. Way less hassle than mailing a new card.
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Deal Addict
Feb 29, 2012
2091 posts
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Richmond
So just to be clear, is it correct to say that you cannot use Android Pay or any similar cell-phone-payment option unless either your phone or your SIM card supports NFC?

I'm puzzled because if so, none of the descriptions mention it. Doesn't that leave out a lot of people?
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Faith24 wrote:
Jun 17th, 2017 9:35 am
So just to be clear, is it correct to say that you cannot use Android Pay or any similar cell-phone-payment option unless either your phone or your SIM card supports NFC?

I'm puzzled because if so, none of the descriptions mention it. Doesn't that leave out a lot of people?
Yes, NFC and Android 4.4 or newer is needed.

According to Google, no.
「もし、奇跡を起こせたら……」
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Jan 7, 2002
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Faith24 wrote:
Jun 17th, 2017 9:35 am
I'm puzzled because if so, none of the descriptions mention it. Doesn't that leave out a lot of people?
angel_wing0 wrote:
Jun 17th, 2017 9:51 am
According to Google, no.
And yet, even some brand new phones still lack NFC, e.g. Moto G5 Review: A $250 smartphone with everything [?!] you need.

It's important for people to verify that their phones, including new ones they're about to buy, do indeed have NFC support.
veni, vidi, Visa
Member
Apr 20, 2011
311 posts
3 upvotes
Scarborough
Is there any advantage of using Android Pay to obtain cashback?

I used my MBNA WE mastercard and get 2% cashback on everything. Will linking this credit card to Android Pay do anything different?
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Dec 16, 2005
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dainfamous41 wrote:
Jun 18th, 2017 4:01 pm
Is there any advantage of using Android Pay to obtain cashback?

I used my MBNA WE mastercard and get 2% cashback on everything. Will linking this credit card to Android Pay do anything different?
MBNA doesn't support Android pay.

And there is no additional monetary benefit of using Android pay. It is primarily for convenience and a little bit security.

If you lose your wallet, you have to cancel your cards. If you lose your phone, just wipe it. Also the card number is not stored anywhere on the phone.
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Aug 22, 2011
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Faith24 wrote:
Jun 17th, 2017 9:35 am
So just to be clear, is it correct to say that you cannot use Android Pay or any similar cell-phone-payment option unless either your phone or your SIM card supports NFC?

I'm puzzled because if so, none of the descriptions mention it. Doesn't that leave out a lot of people?
Not all devices with NFC or OS 4.4 are supported.

https://support.google.com/androidpay/a ... 4811?hl=en

Devices that aren’t compatible with Android Pay

If you’re having problems getting set up or see the message "Android Pay cannot be used," it might be because of changes to your software or the type of phone you have.

Android Pay won’t work with phones that are:
•Running a version of Android prior to Kit Kat (4.4)
•Running developer versions of Android
•Rooted, custom rom, or where the factory software was modified
•Using Samsung MyKnox
•Untested and haven’t been approved by Google
•You have an unlocked bootloader on your device

Device models that don’t support Android Pay include:
•Elephone P9000
•Evo 4G LTE
•Nexus 7 (2012)
•Samsung Galaxy Note III
•Samsung Galaxy S3
•Samsung Galaxy Light
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vkizzle wrote:
Jun 19th, 2017 10:09 am
Devices that aren’t compatible with Android Pay

If you’re having problems getting set up or see the message "Android Pay cannot be used," it might be because of changes to your software or the type of phone you have.
Another situation that can result in NFC problems even on phones that are supposed to support it: The antenna used by NFC is sometimes integrated into the smartphone battery. Some non-OEM batteries lack this antenna. If you replace the original battery with one of these then that will render NFC inoperable.

Also note that NFC has to be enabled: Settings -> Wireless & networks -> ... More -> NFC
veni, vidi, Visa
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Apr 20, 2011
311 posts
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Scarborough
mech9t5 wrote:
Jun 18th, 2017 4:14 pm
MBNA doesn't support Android pay.

And there is no additional monetary benefit of using Android pay. It is primarily for convenience and a little bit security.

If you lose your wallet, you have to cancel your cards. If you lose your phone, just wipe it. Also the card number is not stored anywhere on the phone.
So pretty much no advantage to using Android Pay other than not having to carry around your credit cards?

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