Computers & Electronics

Anyone else hate windows 10 with a passion?

  • Last Updated:
  • Nov 14th, 2017 8:54 pm
Member
Dec 7, 2015
414 posts
78 upvotes
Ottawa, ON
Upgraded two machines to Xubuntu 17.10. Took 20 min. each. Upgraded Win10 on one machine to Creator's - took 2 hours and downloaded 4.7GB (!!!!!) to do it. (FWIW, the largest Linux distro I know of, Kali, is only 2.7GB for a full install; most are only about 1-1.2GB)

Win10 runs like a slug (both cores at full speed and cooling fans running full blast) while Xubuntu is relatively quick (1 core full speed, the other half speed and cooling fan moderate)- in both cases, comparable workloads.
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
16454 posts
1764 upvotes
Montreal
Xubuntu is not bad, if a bit plain Jane. Since Mint is dropping their KDE spin, I'm now in search of a new home. Xfce ain't a bad choice and the layout is simple and works with my daily workflow.

Ubuntu Mate also looks pretty good.
Deal Expert
Aug 2, 2004
25435 posts
2761 upvotes
East Gwillimbury
I went all in with FreeBSD and xfce

Still tweaking. Finally got the screen tearing to a minimum. Screen fonts are still a challenge. Virtualbox was another challenge but I managed to get a Windows 8.1 virtual machine setup for the things I can't do in FreeBSD

If I had to use Linux, I think it would be Gentoo or Debian

Here is a good read for any Windows users

https://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/winstupid/1

Why FreeBSD and not Linux

https://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/r ... d4linux/01
Deal Addict
Sep 13, 2004
2363 posts
259 upvotes
Toronto
Gee wrote:
Nov 11th, 2017 7:52 pm
I went all in with FreeBSD and xfce

Still tweaking. Finally got the screen tearing to a minimum. Screen fonts are still a challenge. Virtualbox was another challenge but I managed to get a Windows 8.1 virtual machine setup for the things I can't do in FreeBSD

If I had to use Linux, I think it would be Gentoo or Debian

Here is a good read for any Windows users

https://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/winstupid/1

Why FreeBSD and not Linux

https://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/r ... d4linux/01
But FreeBSD "just works". How could you have screen tearing?

I actually think much of those two pages are out-dated or wrong-headed. I've been using UNIX as my main platform since 1975 so I've seen a lot of the history. But myths help bind communities, so I don't need to argue with him. Here, for example, are some hints about how BSD debased UNIX http://harmful.cat-v.org/cat-v/ It's kind of funny (but not completely wrong) that the BSD folks claim Linux debased UNIX. Plan 9 is probably the epitome of Unix style but almost nobody uses it. (Richard Miller, at least, uses it and makes it available, for free, on the Raspberry Pi.)

Linux is more practical than BSD because there is so much more effort pooled to move it forward. And as Fuller says, that argument can be used to support Windows over Linux.

Linux is now dominant in super-computers, embedded systems, and the kernel is dominant in phones (Android). It is probably dominant in servers and especially the cloud. It will probably never dominate the desktop.

I am not ignorant of Windows or BSD. Yet I choose Linux. I'm a software developer. I don't play games or DRMed media on my main machines. I value the openness of Linux (and BSD).

I am not suggesting that your use of BSD is a mistake. BSD is smaller than Linux and slower-moving so it should be easier to master. But mastering an OS is barely possible these days.
Deal Addict
Sep 13, 2004
2363 posts
259 upvotes
Toronto
I barely use Windows 10. I have it on several small boxes (HP Stream Mini, Infocus Kangaroo Mobile Desktop, Dell Venue 8 pro, Asus T100taf) that came with 2G of RAM and 32G of "disk".

The major thing I do with Windows is upgrade it. And boy is that a chore.

So many times it fails, yielding only a 8 hex digit code. Googling for those codes just turns up tens of other victims and a whole bunch of useless, superstitous advice. Likely somewhere in there is a pony.

I'm pretty sure that most of the problems come down to disk space. But these devices cannot easily be expanded. They should never have been sold with such limited resources. Yet the specs came from Microsoft in their quest to beat back the ARM invasion. And, in fact, I bought about half of these devices from the Microsoft Store. So I hold them responsible
  • their error messages are unhelpful
  • their logging is unhelpful (at least to me, and I've put some effort in)
  • their minimum requirements for Windows apparently aren't reasonable
  • their maximum requirements for cheap Windows licensing are too low (that made it uneconomical for manufacturers to put in 64G of disk)
  • their support folks are clueless on these problems
  • their Windows Update methods are grossly inefficient in time and space
Full Linux distros behave very well within these constraints. And come with much more functionality. Unfortunately Linux doesn't support some of the odd-ball features of the SoCs. And normal Linux distros don't have fluid tablet interfaces.
Deal Addict
Sep 13, 2004
2363 posts
259 upvotes
Toronto
When I use Win 10 off of a spinning hard drive, it seems miserably slow. When I use an SSD, it is fine.

I think that this is why people disagree about whether Win10 is fast or slow.

This also applies to the Gnome Desktop, used by many Linux and BSD systems.
Last edited by Hugh on Nov 12th, 2017 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Expert
Aug 2, 2004
25435 posts
2761 upvotes
East Gwillimbury
Hugh wrote:
Nov 12th, 2017 4:46 pm
But FreeBSD "just works". How could you have screen tearing?
The screen tearing is in my desktop environment (xfce). The nVidia drivers needs to be tweaked, but it is closed source. I've been using FreeBSD for almost 20 years. Since the days when Walnut Creek still distributed it.

I switched to Debian for a few years, but I recently decided to come back to FreeBSD.

I agree with the articles. FreeBSD is an operating system with basic utilities and a file system. Linux is a kernel and a bunch of fragmented GNU utilities.

If you have been using it since 1975, then you will understand that BSD, not Linux should be the dominant operating system. If it wasn't for the law suit which stunted the progress of BSD, Linux would never have grown as fast as it did. BSD has been around since the 70s, there is a lot of history there.
Penalty Box
Aug 26, 2001
15818 posts
470 upvotes
Oak Ridges, ON
Chalk me up as another one who hates Win10 with a passion. Even with the most recent "creators update" or whatever they call it, it still can't seem to make up it's mind - is it a desktop OS or mobile/tablet OS?

I prefer working on my desktop PC (Win7) over my Win10 laptop, and I've begun to take a liking to my wife's Macbook Pro. I have a feeling that my next laptop will run OS X.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Mar 12, 2005
7456 posts
773 upvotes
Victoria
I don't hate it, but I also customize it to make it run like windows 7.

I disable cortana & telemetry. I install classic start menu over the new one. I use Aeroglass to bring back transparency (so it's not so windows 95 looking). I use an off line account as I have no intention of using the windows store.... etc... I set it up so it automatically boots straight to desktop (automatically logging me in). You can make win10 run the way you like. I don't find it's slow at all (in fact it's pretty snappy on my 6.5 year old PC).

I've customized every version of Windows, windows 10 has needed the most, but at least you can do it.
Last edited by zod on Nov 14th, 2017 12:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
Member
Jun 10, 2006
306 posts
29 upvotes
My own 2 cents: Have an old Atom 330 based mini desktop that I had 'retired' for a while, and decided to slap W10 on it (already have a newer quad-core with my 'real' W10 install on it). Linux is my primary OS on the many machines I have, and I wanted to see how easy it would be to download, install, and configure a fresh install of W10. Could I suspend my bias against Windows sufficiently to give it an honest attempt?

The download was (as said) extremely large, and my PC was very reluctant (for some reason) to allow me to boot from a USB stick -- and just as much so when I put the ISO on a DVD instead -- but it eventually worked. Lots of waiting for the install to complete (yes, it is a slow PC).

Some sort of bug then made the system crash whenever I tried to open an image file (!), which surprised me. I think I got past that by installing an *older* graphics driver from W7 -- this brought up many painful memories of obscure Windows errors and rabbit-trail solutions read on the web...

Installed Putty (for SSH), and next tried TightVNC (for VNC) but just couldn't get it to work properly (screen would not update on the remote client).

Excluding performance (from the slow hardware), in comparison to the Linux desktop I am familiar with, I still find the user interface inefficient, awkard, and ugly. Setting up a static IP seems to be (?) just as difficult (for a newbie at least) as it has ever been. Yes, some things are easier than they used to be, but I feel sorrow for any new person to computers that is forced to use and learn on this platform. For the record, I worked for many years in my career on Windows (for IBM).

For me, it is not a question of the 'apps' that are available, or the ability to do the 'tasks' that one desires to do -- both Windows and Linux and Mac OS can do this -- but for minimal fuss and clutter, and maximum intuitiveness and fun, Linux (at least the flavor that I use) is just the way to go. At this point, unless a person has no choice, I would strongly suggest Linux over Windows. Am I biased? Yes, but I still think that I made a good effort to be as objective as possible in this recent experiment :)
Deal Guru
Aug 2, 2010
10949 posts
2175 upvotes
Ilovejaneandfinch wrote:
Nov 5th, 2017 9:21 am
hate hate hate hate. That is all I can say about how I feel about windows 10.

Everything from logging in, to the way its aesthetics look. Programs are slow too. Hate it all. Anyone else in the same boat?

Windows xp was fine. I had zero complaint about windows 7 too.
I love Win 10 more than life itself. Doesn't crash like XP always did, love the UI, very fast. There's nothing not to love!
Penalty Box
User avatar
Aug 23, 2006
2950 posts
186 upvotes
Ilovejaneandfinch wrote:
Nov 5th, 2017 9:21 am
hate hate hate hate. That is all I can say about how I feel about windows 10.

Everything from logging in, to the way its aesthetics look. Programs are slow too. Hate it all. Anyone else in the same boat?

Windows xp was fine. I had zero complaint about windows 7 too.
“There are some things money can’t buy, and for everything else there’s MasterCard. Well, get out your checkbooks ladies and gentlemen, because it seems like the entire liberal cabinet can be bought. TRUDEAU: I CAN’T BE BOUGHT...LMAO. Because its 2017
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May 8, 2009
1788 posts
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I switched to Ubuntu back in the days of windows xp, started with Ubuntu version 7.04 (had to install ndiswrapper to get wifi). It's evolved a fair bit since. My experience with more recent versions of windows have been primarily windows 7, but a strip-down & locked-down version for my workstation. The annoyances with windows at work is primarily the fact that everything's locked down, making tweaking certain settings impossible. I managed to change my keyboard layout, but I have to keep changing it for every window and browser tab. Fortunately I was able to establish a keyboard shortcut for this. I also find it annoying how windows lacks certain cool features like Linux's copy-paste with the mouse (middle-click pastes selected text).

As for windows 10, I'm in no rush to use it. I really have no time for windows on my own equipment. No time for disk defrag, virus scans, searching for good software that isn't malaware, etc.
Motorola phone. Linux on 2xcomputers. Brew beer & wine @home.
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Deal Addict
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Jul 15, 2003
2603 posts
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Ontario, Canada
Windows 10 issues i've fun into. Some are windows being stupid. Some are my fault. Some are maybe lazy design.

The windows search bar is far less helpful than it used to be. Someone in this thread posted how when they type "sleep" it only offered a web search instead of the power options settings. I see they fixed this but there are many things that i find windows 7 would give you a helpful suggestion and windows 10 does not.

Automatic forced updates - yeah enough said in this thread.

Classic style vs new style apps. This started with windows 8. There is the control panel and all it's sub categories. But now there's also the tablet friendly "windows settings" dialog/app that replicates some of the functionality but categorizes it all differently.

And my favorite the "Service Host: Delivery Optimization" process using up 100% of my download bandwidth randomly for hours at a time. This one isn't strictly their fault but i think there should have been some sort of notification or indication what was going on. Googling this problem usually told you to go into the windows update settings and turn off as much automatic update stuff as you could. I did this and i still kept getting this problem intermittently even when i knew there were no new windows updates that needed downloading. The only solution was to completely kill the task but it would come back next boot. Eventually i found it. Apparently at some point in the past i had signed up to the techincal alpha of Sea Of Thieves which was distributed through the microsoft store or xbox app or something. I downloaded it but never tried it out. But apparently every time they pushed out an update (20Gb or greater in size) my computer would automatically download it. In the end i had to launch the store or xbox app ( i don't remember anymore) and go into the settings to turn off automatic updates. So while it is true that i apparently did have automatic updates turned on, every other game/app/anything that downloads large updates gives you some sort of notification that it is doing so. either in the system tray or ... SOMETHING!
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
16454 posts
1764 upvotes
Montreal
darethehair wrote:
Nov 14th, 2017 8:37 am
My own 2 cents: Have an old Atom 330 based mini desktop that I had 'retired' for a while, and decided to slap W10 on it (already have a newer quad-core with my 'real' W10 install on it). Linux is my primary OS on the many machines I have, and I wanted to see how easy it would be to download, install, and configure a fresh install of W10. Could I suspend my bias against Windows sufficiently to give it an honest attempt?

The download was (as said) extremely large, and my PC was very reluctant (for some reason) to allow me to boot from a USB stick -- and just as much so when I put the ISO on a DVD instead -- but it eventually worked. Lots of waiting for the install to complete (yes, it is a slow PC).

Some sort of bug then made the system crash whenever I tried to open an image file (!), which surprised me. I think I got past that by installing an *older* graphics driver from W7 -- this brought up many painful memories of obscure Windows errors and rabbit-trail solutions read on the web...

Installed Putty (for SSH), and next tried TightVNC (for VNC) but just couldn't get it to work properly (screen would not update on the remote client).

Excluding performance (from the slow hardware), in comparison to the Linux desktop I am familiar with, I still find the user interface inefficient, awkard, and ugly. Setting up a static IP seems to be (?) just as difficult (for a newbie at least) as it has ever been. Yes, some things are easier than they used to be, but I feel sorrow for any new person to computers that is forced to use and learn on this platform. For the record, I worked for many years in my career on Windows (for IBM).

For me, it is not a question of the 'apps' that are available, or the ability to do the 'tasks' that one desires to do -- both Windows and Linux and Mac OS can do this -- but for minimal fuss and clutter, and maximum intuitiveness and fun, Linux (at least the flavor that I use) is just the way to go. At this point, unless a person has no choice, I would strongly suggest Linux over Windows. Am I biased? Yes, but I still think that I made a good effort to be as objective as possible in this recent experiment :)
I've refined installing Linux from scratch down to an art. I can do it in one sitting on toilet bowl. Windows is half a day at best.

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