Anyone else think co-op is stupid?

[Stinger]

you don't pay tuition while on a co-op work term. that would be ridiculous.

Ahh if only it worked that way

Co-op is a little different that a practicum I supose (though they often call it the same thing) but when I did mine I paid out 6 credits worth of tuition fees for the practicum "course". Plus the 250 hours of lost wages having to take time off work. My mandatory (to graduate) work term opportunity cost me over $5000 and the area I was placed in, it was physically impossible to even be hired at that position after it was over because of mandatory experience requirements. Insult to injury, it couldn't add anything relevant to my resume for the entry level position I would have to compete for after I graduated to get into that line of work.

Jokes on me I guess - could have got 30 credits worth of courses for the price of 6.




Don't get me wrong, it was a great experience, I learned a lot and made some good contacts, and there are some schools and programs that have very strong Co-op programs. But damn, be careful, you may wind up paying someone else so you can do their work for them with little net benefit - and the school is laughing because they can cash in on fees without even providing a course

[lilVC]

Co-Op is stupid?

It's a lot harder for you to look for a job as oppose to having 100's of jobs to apply for where the employer comes to you, not the other way around (99% of the time anyways). For ~$500 you have companies from Alberta to California looking to hire students. Honestly, this fee isn't much of an issue when you're making over 10 grand after the first co-op (in my program anyway) and having 3-5 interviews onwards. You'll make enough money to pay your tuition and graduate debt free if you're smart with your money.

Lol don't let a simple fee interfere with practical experience + income which funny enough, would be stupid.

[iEyeCaptain]

After graduating and seeing my non co-op friends not being able to find jobs for months/years because of lack of work experience, I would gladly pay many times that $500 per term for the ability to do co-op.

[coolspot]

Im not 100% sure if this is how it works, but to my knowledge , we have to pay around $500 to find a co-op placement ourselves. Correct me if Im wrong, but most college/uni don't even find a co-op placement for you. So I am basicly paying the $1000 to the school for nothing, when I can just find a job myself

What school? Waterloo has lot of high quality placements and I don't think there was a surcharge for co-op.

But co-op is useful... graduates with no experience no only get paid less, but also make a lot of stupid mistakes during their first job

[vaportrails]

not sure where you're getting your info.

Yes, we pay certain fees for co-op services, but you know you get paid during the job, which when saved smartly should cover a lot of the tuition during school terms.

Pfft. Try renting your own place and paying your own bills and having a life, then tell me co-op is going into a savings account. What a joke.

Seriously what did you expect? There are ZERO schools will just "find a placement FOR YOU". You're expecting the university to just "place" you into a job without interviews or applications or ANY selection process?

UW's co-op program for example gathers job openings from various companies looking to hire co-ops. And through the university co-op job posting you apply and interview for co-op jobs. Once a company gathers all the resumes from the university, they pick candidates to interview and the university will set up the interview between you 2. So what you're paying for is the ASSISTANCE and PROCESS in landing a job, not a gift wrapped job and send you on the way. Part of the co-op process does involve some independence in knowing what and how to apply for jobs. How to conduct interviews, etc.

Co-op was not stupid. True, the things I worked on arent very applicable (thats just my case), but I saw a lot of work environments. MOST IMPORTANTLY it showed me what I DIDN'T want as a career.

When I signed up for the co-op at Fanshawe College, it was completely stupid. I had a 3.4 GPA my first year and I worked weekends waiting tables, making enough money to barely cover my bills (still was $15hr with tips) on weekends. I was a shoe-in, but I didn't get interviewed because the program coordinators were a husband/wife team, and they cherry-picked their favourite students to talk up to employers. If you weren't on their short list of golden boys, you got snowed - but that didn't stop them from getting everyone to sign up.

I can't speak for other schools, but unless you can ensure there's a merit-based process involved in getting a shot at the co-op jobs, then they shouldn't have the program at all.

[Sylvestre]

co-op is a money grab by the colleges. It has little or nothing to do with work exposure. You can have a program with a term of work, called a paid internship and it doesn't have to be co-op.

Internship is the same as co-op, minus the cash grab.

The supposed idea of co-op is that you are paying the college to source/manage/administer the co-op placement, but rarely is that money actually applied to staffing that function. Your cash goes into the general accounts and disappears into the bureaucracy.

A lot of schools charge additional for internship. There's no free lunch.

Internships are generalized and don't come with any general salary increases as you get experience. In co-op, the university co-op office provides you with specific jobs that are more relevant to your interests with salaries more competitive than the internships. Keep in mind any organisation needs to be profitable to survive--otherwise it will be unsustainable. Just my 2 cents.

Internships and co-op salaries are generally very competive. Remember that internships are almost always 3rd yr students so the salary is comparative to a 3yr student doing their 3rd or 4th co-op.

And trust me, the out of pocket expenses for hiring students is quite minimal. We only pay about 30 cents for every dollar of salary we offer. The rest is grants and tax credits.

[Maedhros]

Pfft. Try renting your own place and paying your own bills and having a life, then tell me co-op is going into a savings account. What a joke.

When I signed up for the co-op at Fanshawe College, it was completely stupid. I had a 3.4 GPA my first year and I worked weekends waiting tables, making enough money to barely cover my bills (still was $15hr with tips) on weekends. I was a shoe-in, but I didn't get interviewed because the program coordinators were a husband/wife team, and they cherry-picked their favourite students to talk up to employers. If you weren't on their short list of golden boys, you got snowed - but that didn't stop them from getting everyone to sign up.

I can't speak for other schools, but unless you can ensure there's a merit-based process involved in getting a shot at the co-op jobs, then they shouldn't have the program at all.

I'm currently eating out every day + paying rent & bills, Yet I'm STILL SAVING Cash for uni. I also have an RESP, so I'm not entirely worried about payin for tuition.

I think the fact that your at Fanshawe college is part of the problem. @ Waterloo the coop placement is very fair. I don't know anyone who didn't get a job (unless they didn't apply or else didn't want one).

Again, colleges might work differently then universities, but @ loo it was the employers who decided which students got interviews.

[Mark77]

And trust me, the out of pocket expenses for hiring students is quite minimal. We only pay about 30 cents for every dollar of salary we offer. The rest is grants and tax credits.

Pretty unfortunate, since, at the margin, these students are competing against new grads -- and certainly, new grads suffer the burden of having their competition essentially subsidized by the government if you are receiving grants and tax credits.

[Zelig]

You don't need to go through your school's co-op program, I know a fair number of people who just took applied to co-op programs at companies themselves, and took a semester off to do the work.

[hystat]

A lot of schools charge additional for internship. There's no free lunch.

there is in my program. We organize and schedule interviews on campus. We run the sign-ups, and gather the sheets/reports afterwards for credit.

We charge $0
We even buy all the employers lunch.

The school administration would like us to make the course co-op so we can charge the students for the work we do.
We have fought to keep it this way for over a decade.

[vaportrails]

[B]

I'm currently eating out every day + paying rent & bills, Yet I'm STILL SAVING Cash for uni. I also have an RESP, so I'm not entirely worried about payin for tuition.

This begs more questions than it answers. You do realize this, right?

I think the fact that your at Fanshawe college is part of the problem. @ Waterloo the coop placement is very fair. I don't know anyone who didn't get a job (unless they didn't apply or else didn't want one).

Again, colleges might work differently then universities, but @ loo it was the employers who decided which students got interviews.

Well, I'll admit the co-op at Fanshawe was awful. I would fully expect that a respectable university like Waterloo would have a better structured program with more checks and balances.

[DJ Dennis]

Nothing stupid about coming out of undergrad with 0 debt.

[soul_taker]

Co-Op is stupid?

It's a lot harder for you to look for a job as oppose to having 100's of jobs to apply for where the employer comes to you, not the other way around (99% of the time anyways). For ~$500 you have companies from Alberta to California looking to hire students. Honestly, this fee isn't much of an issue when you're making over 10 grand after the first co-op (in my program anyway) and having 3-5 interviews onwards. You'll make enough money to pay your tuition and graduate debt free if you're smart with your money.

Lol don't let a simple fee interfere with practical experience + income which funny enough, would be stupid.

This is how I feel about co op. I'd gladly pay a $500 fee (and am doing such right now at Seneca) to have interviews lined up for me. As well the amount of time i'd save looking for a job will be spent working where i'd be making more money than the $500 fee I had to spend to get the interviews lined up in the first place.

A lot of employers are looking for work experience over a post-secondary education. If a single paid work term less $500 (in which case i'd still end up with more money then I started with) saves me two years at a entry level help desk job then i'd say it's worth it.

[lalalalala]

I'm a third year management co-op student at UTSC (University of Toronto Scarborough) and let me tell you that at least for my program I think it is money WEELLL spent. Since you guys seem very cynical I'll really spell out my program for you.

Yes. It is true that no one will "give" you a job but let me ask you, do you really want to be imposed into a role? Every time I have searched within our co-op boards, there has been over 120 job positions specifically tailored to the management streams (marketing, finance, accounting, HR, IT and others). Not only will you gain practical, RELEVANT work experience but the range for the hourly salary is $15-$20 depending on stream (finance pays the highest, then maybe IT/accounting, marketing). By the second or third workterm the average wage is really around $18. So overall, the three co-op terms will land you around $35000-$40000 which is a really nice supplement to my $13k for two semester tuition fee. Also, I don't see how $500 a semester is such an expensive investment given how much you gain from it both in experience and money. I'll be honest, I think my co-op coordinators may spew too much BS some time but I do get access to jobs that are not open to non-co-op students and trust me, because of government incentives there are more co-op jobs than regular intern positions. Co-op jobs are also available year round whereas internships are mostly in the summer.

I have always thought about going to the St.George campus for Rotman but I really think that co-op gives me a leg up over other business programs. It also forces you to think about your career decisions which is more than what I can say for some of my psychology/anthropology/philosophy/political science peers who I know a few that has never had ANY jobs and have NO idea what to do with their life after university.

I have heard from employers that they water down certain internship positions compared to its co-op counterpart. I'm dubious as to the relevance and the competition is fierce. But hey, if you REALLY think that you can get a very good paying job that gives you a lot of RELEVANT experiences than good for you for saving $3200.

http://mgmtcoop.utsc.utoronto.ca/students/fees