Admitting defeat - when theres no more money basically

[Spidey]

OK, so should this be in financial or parenting. I decided parenting because this deals with my family, as well as finances. So here goes.

While single people can reply, dont even think you know what its like to raise a family and the burden it is, and no matter how much you plan, you cant plan for everything.

I'm not going to try and fake it like many do about the money we make and out lifestyle. We are struggling and I'm sick of it.

Long story short, right now we basically live pay check to pay check. Now while all the bills are paid, we pay a bit extra each month on the mortgage ($92 a month), theres food on the table, and we have small CC debt of about $800 thats seems to fluctuate each month due to whatever (at no interest because we usually pay off what we put on in a pay period)

We budget for everything, from the restaurant fund of $40 a month to the pet fund to pay for pet food, shots, etc of $50 a month. Kids clothes fund, a birthday gift fund. Our budget consists of making sure if something comes up, we are more or less covered. We also put away for retirement, pay ourselves first, but every day that is getting harder and harder

Saying that, we never seem to have any money left over, ever. After I get paid I literally put aside $20 as my fun money for 2 weeks, thats all I can afford.

As a family we have no daily habits to cut back on. We aren't part of the Starbucks affect, we brown-bag it everyday for years, we buy kids clothes at Value Village or when they are on a really big sale. All of our living expense are all cut back to the bare minimum like our home phone, TV, cell phones, etc. We are cheap with power and natural gas, we dont rent movies, we do as much free stuff as possible as a family. We dont eat out barely, we barely travel, etc, etc. A trip to Halifax this summer for a wedding we are members of and have been saving up for since the fall will be our first big vacation on 4 years, and we have cut back things just to save up for that, and will still be about $2000 short to take it after the flight is paid for. But its a promise we made to our best friends last fall when they asked us.

If we do get a big windfall of cash say from a tax refund, it goes to pay off debt we have. We have 3 main payments, our mortgage, our camping trailer and our car. On paper we should have money left over, but thats not the case. gas and groceries alone the last 2 months have increased a minimum of 25%, and thats a big chunk of change when feeding a family of 5. Our grocery bill is running close to $1000 and doesn't show any signs of slowing down. and this is living on the cheap, getting the 50% off bread thats old, using coupons, no name products, having a garden, etc. Our kids get a small allowance each month and no advances. If they want something they pay for it, we dont give into their whims of wanting the latest video game, etc.

The reason for the post is yesterday we got news that our oldest son needs braces, to a touch of $6800. I almost punched the orthodontist when he said "you can make monthly payments of ONLY $300 a month" He made it sound that $300 is just sitting around extra a month for parents these days.

And every place is like this, I have pet owners and vets that think I'm a bad pet owner and make me feel guilty when I take my pet in for shots cause I dont spend hundreds of dollars on them for all the extras and buy them the cheapest pet food I can find.

So when as a parent do you just say, I cant cut anything else to make this work. Do we start selling things we enjoy. I have a quad we use alot, do I sell it, do I sell my little 12 Ft aluminum fishing boat that cost me $100. Do we move to a cheaper house back to the city. Do we totally cancel things like our cell-phone or the dish. I look at our budget and I cant seem to find anything to cut that will even come close to an extra $300. Do we not put away for retirement anymore?

I dont want to be one of those people that just live and just let debt pile up and let the CC take care of things, I want to be a responsible parent, etc. But what do you do when theres just no more money left.

My wife and I have sat down and tried to figure out where our money goes, we have even done the write everything down thing. And theres just nothing thats reoccurring thats makes up the expenses, except the rise of food and fuel. And sure while I go out for beer and wings here and there, the 6-7 times a year (thats right a year, not a month) I dont think is the culprit. Do we not treat our kids every Friday to a slush thats costs us $6 a week (not every week either)

hell, I dont even go to the movie anymore unless I have enough point on my scene card or a GC, just because I dont have the money.

So maybe on RFD where cheap is king, I can get some ideas. As I am typing this I am wearing my $4 polo shirt from VV, my $7 pair of shoes from VV and my jeans from 10 years ago. So I'm showing that as a family we aren't extravagant or care about name brands. So what am I missing, where did I mess up. All the books I read is cut back where you can, and that makes sense, but what happens when you are cut back as much as you can and cant cut anymore?

As I said to my wife last night, I think the man upstairs always wants me to be poor. Anytime we ever get ahead, like a bill paid off, etc, there is always something that comes along and just takes it place.

[manyapples]

Hi Spidey,

My advice is to cut the cable/sat TV. I just cut mine, and it's a savings of $70/month. Also, I know you probably like camping/the trailer - but I would consider cutting this as well.

[dekay]

Not in the same shoes, but I really feel for you.

At some point when there's nothing else to cut, you really have to find an extra source of income whether it be an extra shift/job or hopefully a raise from your current employer via extra responsiblities etc. I'd assume you'd check this already, but if you haven't, check if your group medical plan covers braces (I believe mine covers up to $2k, but of course it differs from company to company).

[Spidey]

Hi Spidey,

My advice is to cut the cable/sat TV. I just cut mine, and it's a savings of $70/month. Also, I know you probably like camping/the trailer - but I would consider cutting this as well.

Was thinking the satellite to, but in true RFD style, we have the cheapest plan and the PVR for free because of the deal on here, so thats only $30 a month. Well $30 extra is better than no dollars I guess.

Camping and the trailer is the one thing we truly enjoy as a family. Thats why we dont go on big vacations, etc because we do that instead.

We budget for it as well at $100 a month to our camping fund, so thats $1200 a year. That covers basically everything from fuel, site and groceries. of course this summer with everything going up that wont be the case. Also with this trip to Halifax our camping fund basically went towards that, since we couldn't afford the extra money to put away, something had to give.

Is camping expensive, its in perspective I guess, you have a trailer sitting 7 months of the year, the cost of food, gas, campsites. But we were gone an entire month last summer to 3 provinces and it cost us about $1500 for the month, which for a family of 5 is cheap compared to a lot of vacations.

But if we do get rid of the camper, then that takes away from our one thing we enjoy as a family. Is it worth it, do we give it up for 2 years while braces are paid off. Having that as something to look forward to for the summer monthly of July, Aug and September saves our sanity it seems and brings us together as a group.

It has been tentatively been put on the chopping block though, sad to say

[deep]

The two things that immediately come to mind are lottery tickets (I believe you play, no?) and cable. I personally wouldn't tell you to get rid of anything that gets you and your family outdoors, like the quad/trailer/boat, but maybe you have a few too many interests going on that front? Are you spending a lot on upkeep and consumables for those things? If so, maybe considering slimming down in that regards.

It's a tough tough spot to be in - I've lived it for a couple of years when my first kids were born and my wife and I wanted to be home 24/7 for them. I can't honestly say I'm happier now that we both decided to work again, but at least that's one set of concerns that disappeared.

Basically, you can make more, spend less, and do more with whatever money remains. Which of those three pillars do you feel is the weak point as of now?

[Spidey]

Not in the same shoes, but I really feel for you.

At some point when there's nothing else to cut, you really have to find an extra source of income whether it be an extra shift/job or hopefully a raise from your current employer via extra responsiblities etc. I'd assume you'd check this already, but if you haven't, check if your group medical plan covers braces (I believe mine covers up to $2k, but of course it differs from company to company).

I have been looking, and for the last 10 years I have had a side business of computer repair. But the last few years I just havent had the time to concentrate on promoting it like I used to just due to family life being so busy.

While I still fix some, Ive went from making on average $800 a month to maybe $200 now. And only 30% goes back into the business, the rest goes directly on any outstanding bill or debt, or I might "occasionly" use some and take my wife out. And when I say occasionlly, I mean 2-3 times a year.

Im trying new things with my business to attract more customers that wont cost me too much overhead, but everyday there are more and more guys like me that work from their house doing the same thing

My old boss offered me my part time job of dj-ing back at a local place, but Im to old to work until 2 am to be back up at 6 am for work then next day. Ive done my time with that.

Im currently looking into my health plan for extra coverage. My next raise wont be until the fall, they are scheduled. Im jealous of the guys right our of school making 70K, I havent even cracked 50K yet.

[taylyn]

I completely understand where you are coming from. I am a single parent, and 2 years ago when my daughter needed braces I went through everything you are now. Here I am 2 years later, her braces come off in July, and my last payment will be in January 2012. The cost was$8900, my benefits covered a lifetime max of $2k, and the rest was on a payment plan of $200 a month. Ouch. I live according to a strict budget too, and do not veer. Ever.

What I did do was get a line of credit from my bank and use that for payments - it comes direclty off that, then I repay. If one month is tighter than another (like December) I can pay the minimum for that particular month. I also started a second job last Sept-Dec, and will be doing it again once the kids go back to school in Sept and jobs are more available.

You do what you have to do, and someone how when you look back on it you wonder how the hell did I *do* that???? I'm on one income and live comfortably, but I am like you - a couple paycheques away from disaster. But yet I have savings, a RRSP, and now am starting an education fund. You can't do everything.

$1000 a month on groceries is just too much, even for a family of 5. I spend $50 a week for 2 of us, and that's eating well. You also have to LIVE your life, so cutting back 6 times a year for beer and wings won't make a dent. You can get cheaper dental services at the Toronto Ortho college - you have to get your son there for appts, but the cost is significantly less there.

You did not say if your wife works. I would hope given your situation she does. If not, she should ask if she can work at the ortho clinic for free in exchange for a discounted rate for braces. She needs to provide for the family too, 5 kids or not. Times are tough, you have to be creative.

All I can say is trust me, you will find a way and be fine :)

[Spidey]

The two things that immediately come to mind are lottery tickets (I believe you play, no?) and cable. I personally wouldn't tell you to get rid of anything that gets you and your family outdoors, like the quad/trailer/boat, but maybe you have a few too many interests going on that front? Are you spending a lot on upkeep and consumables for those things? If so, maybe considering slimming down in that regards.

It's a tough tough spot to be in - I've lived it for a couple of years when my first kids were born and my wife and I wanted to be home 24/7 for them. I can't honestly say I'm happier now that we both decided to work again, but at least that's one set of concerns that disappeared.

Basically, you can make more, spend less, and do more with whatever money remains. Which of those three pillars do you feel is the weak point as of now?

Lotto tickets come to $6 a week. And I agree every little bit helps. Saying that Ive actualy cut back to one a week so its only $3 a week. With the wins I get from them Im a little bit ahead, but not much.

The dish runs $30 a month here, and once again that would help as well. With summer coming we might just do that, and rely on Netflix alone. That could be cut to for $8 a month

If I did cut all those, that would be $50 a month on average.

Upkeep for my boat is nil, its a 12 ft old Sears aluminum that I got with a trailer for $100. Only upkeep is repacking wheel bearings each spring, thats it. So its not a cost to me just sitting there. and mykids and I like to fish, and while a fishing license costs be $25 a year and some gas when we go, is it worth it to cut out so you cant do things as a family?

Trailer or quad upkeep are all my own, I try and do as much as possible myself. Quads almost a neccessary evil as we use it in the winter as a snow plough. I guess we do have the cost to license and insure it each year. But once again its a good stress reliver as well, and something we and my kids enjoy. Its also paid for cash, I had a thread a few years back when my car got smashed wether to use the insurance money to pay down the mortgage or get a quad, and the quad won out

I know we could get rid of a lot of stuff we have, but at the sake of what, not being able to do anything we enjoy. We are outdoors people.

As for the pillars, Im thinking I just need to make more. Spend less, sure, but like Ive mentioned the couple things to cut back really isnt going to amount to much. We already "spend less" as it is. Same as the do more with the money make, I dont think we can stretch the dollars we have any more, we already so everything we can on the cheapest way possible.

[Spidey]

I completely understand where you are coming from. I am a single parent, and 2 years ago when my daughter needed braces I went through everything you are now. Here I am 2 years later, her braces come off in July, and my last payment will be in January 2012. The cost was$8900, my benefits covered a lifetime max of $2k, and the rest was on a payment plan of $200 a month. Ouch. I live according to a strict budget too, and do not veer. Ever.

What I did do was get a line of credit from my bank and use that for payments - it comes direclty off that, then I repay. If one month is tighter than another (like December) I can pay the minimum for that particular month. I also started a second job last Sept-Dec, and will be doing it again once the kids go back to school in Sept and jobs are more available.

You do what you have to do, and someone how when you look back on it you wonder how the hell did I *do* that???? I'm on one income and live comfortably, but I am like you - a couple paycheques away from disaster. But yet I have savings, a RRSP, and now am starting an education fund. You can't do everything.

$1000 a month on groceries is just too much, even for a family of 5. I spend $50 a week for 2 of us, and that's eating well. You also have to LIVE your life, so cutting back 6 times a year for beer and wings won't make a dent. You can get cheaper dental services at the Toronto Ortho college - you have to get your son there for appts, but the cost is significantly less there.

You did not say if your wife works. I would hope given your situation she does. If not, she should ask if she can work at the ortho clinic for free in exchange for a discounted rate for braces. She needs to provide for the family too, 5 kids or not. Times are tough, you have to be creative.

All I can say is trust me, you will find a way and be fine :)

Well maybe $1000 was high, I dont shop for them. My wife budgets $600 a month for them, but seems she is always at the store getting things in between the big monthly shop. And its not going to the store either to buy more fruit roll-ups either, this is for staples like bread, milk or something that ran out unexpectdly. Sometimes its higher if there is a meat sale at the co-op or costco, and saying that we get as much free meat as we can from relatives that go hunting, etc.

Problem is Im a big eater, as well as my kids are. I was blessed or cursed with a high metabolism, as well as my kids, so we eat a lot of food. I cant tell my kids not to eat just to keep the grocery budget down. And the pantry isnt filled with crap fillers either like soda or chips. We try and eat healthy with occasional cheating.

When you say $50 a month for 2, times that by 3, thats $150 a week, which is $600 a month. A food bill can more than triple when you get up from 2 to 5.

You mentioned Toronto, we dont live there. We have one orthodontist in town and a second opinion is 2 hours away. While I am considering a second opinion (not for price but if he needs them) thats an extra cost just for gas and the appoitment.

Oh sorry, I did forget to mention my wife works, and she makes more than me. I may just have to face facts I have to change jobs, but thats not happening overnight in a smaller center. And what also sucks is I love my job, so I want to go work rigs at my age just to pay for kids braces?

We are creative, but we have nowhere more to be creative. Meals are planned for the week, Sunday is the making meals for the week, just so we dont fall back on take out.

Even if we cut out all the little things, like the treat ice cream cone once in awhile, the date night that happens once every 3 months, etc. There just doesnt seem to be anything that stands out that happens all the time to cut back on.

And while sure, we could not go out for an ice cream cone, is the $7 you save from that even going to help at all, at the sake of "we never do anything or go anywhere" I guarantee things will get pretty stressful around here. You cant always do things just in the house, sometimes you have to just get out.

3/4 of the time the only way I can treat my wife to a night out is if its free from a local contest I won wether it be GC's to a restarant or a radio station contest party. and while she says its ok, I feel I shouldnt have to do that just to get her away from the house

[manyapples]

Was thinking the sattelite to, but in true RFD style, we have the cheapest plan and the PVR for free because of the deal on here, so thats only $30 a month. Well $30 extra is better than no dollars I guess.

Having said that, lately I have been using hulu.com to stream any shows I want. I found out about this through RFD. Just download a VPN shield (I think I use hotspot shield or something of the sort, then stream away using hulu) it works very well.

[Spidey]

Having said that, lately I have been using hulu.com to stream any shows I want. I found out about this through RFD. Just download a VPN shield (I think I use hotspot shield or something of the sort, then stream away using hulu) it works very well.

Thing is, how do my kids and wife operate it. Im the only tech guy in the house, and how does it stream to the rest of the house? Is the VPN shield free?

If its not user friendly and they cant use it when Im not there, not much sense in having it

[Blvck_Scvle]

Lottery tickets at $12 a month is still $144 a year. Don't fool yourself into thinking this is a winning proposition, even if it can be in streaks.

I think the biggest thing you need to do is figure out your grocery bill. There's a large difference between $600 and $1000. Is it $150 a week or $250 a week? If it's $250 a week, why? Even at $150, cutting out a few things will really save you money. Maybe try buying bulk on things you use a lot of? Schedule your grocery visits so you take advantage of any promotional savings days? I know we have 10% off Tuesdays at Sobey's if your total is over a certain amount. Sign up for a points card too if you use Sobey's, that can help also.

I don't suggest cutting back on simple things like time spent at a sports bar with your friends, that's ridiculous. As mentioned earlier, you do need to live your life. One thing my family does is we don't have a home phone. I don't see the use for a home phone if every member of your family has a cell phone. Then again, there's only 3 of us and 5 of you so maybe that's not a winning proposition. If you have no use for TV, cut that out and sign up for Netflix. This wouldn't work for me, but it can work for some folks if you don't have a need to watch sports or anything.

The best advice I can give is just to buckle down. Try to not cut yourself off from having the small things, but don't indulge yourself on EVERY small thing. Every time you say "oh, it's just $3" can add up in a hurry.

I also have a crazy off the wall suggestion that may work for you, because it worked for a friend of mine. I don't ever recommend it as anything but an experimental thing ... but if you're worried that your family eats WAY too much to maintain a proper grocery budget, try appetite suppressants. My friend took them for three months when he had the same problem and he cut his grocery bill in half because he just wasn't as hungry. Obviously, he did this in combination with training for a bodybuilding competition but it still worked. :lol:

[Spidey]

Lottery tickets at $12 a month is still $144 a year. Don't fool yourself into thinking this is a winning proposition, even if it can be in streaks.

I think the biggest thing you need to do is figure out your grocery bill. There's a large difference between $600 and $1000. Is it $150 a week or $250 a week? If it's $250 a week, why? Even at $150, cutting out a few things will really save you money. Maybe try buying bulk on things you use a lot of? Schedule your grocery visits so you take advantage of any promotional savings days? I know we have 10% off Tuesdays at Sobey's if your total is over a certain amount. Sign up for a points card too if you use Sobey's, that can help also.

I don't suggest cutting back on simple things like time spent at a sports bar with your friends, that's ridiculous. As mentioned earlier, you do need to live your life. One thing my family does is we don't have a home phone. I don't see the use for a home phone if every member of your family has a cell phone. Then again, there's only 3 of us and 5 of you so maybe that's not a winning proposition. If you have no use for TV, cut that out and sign up for Netflix. This wouldn't work for me, but it can work for some folks if you don't have a need to watch sports or anything.

The best advice I can give is just to buckle down. Try to not cut yourself off from having the small things, but don't indulge yourself on EVERY small thing. Every time you say "oh, it's just $3" can add up in a hurry.

I also have a crazy off the wall suggestion that may work for you, because it worked for a friend of mine. I don't ever recommend it as anything but an experimental thing ... but if you're worried that your family eats WAY too much to maintain a proper grocery budget, try appetite suppressants. My friend took them for three months when he had the same problem and he cut his grocery bill in half because he just wasn't as hungry. Obviously, he did this in combination with training for a bodybuilding competition but it still worked. :lol:

All the grocery things you mention my wife does. MBNA card to get the $50 check back which goes to buy more groceries, superbucks at the Superstore when we buy gas, somethimes they have save $30 with $250 worth of groceries. She buys bulks, we make almost all meals at home, we dont buy name brand food. We are just big eaters, theres no way around it. We do or have done everyway we can think of to save money food wise. Thats what I mean there doesnt seem to be anything more we can do to cut back on food alone. Cereal is all generic brands, no Fruit Loops, fruity-o's instead.

Home phone we talked about and impossible to get rid of. When my wife and I are gone, how do our kids get a hold of us from home if something happens, or how do we get a hold of them as well. Im old school, my kids dont have or probably never will never have a cell phone unless they have a job and pay for it themselves, just the way I parent. I know many think its cruel these days, I think it stupid for a 10 year old to have a cell phone. Just the way it goes. Home phone is $25 a month and long distance is barely used, maybe $3-$4 a month, if that. So while not having it would save us money, its something thats needed for emergencies.

Actually the its only $3 never crosses my lips, in fact I lost .50 cents the other day and i was pissed off. Its countless the times when we go to do something that I will try and save a few bucks, even the occasional mcdonalds meal I will only get a burger, and just share some of my kids fries and drinks. $2 at a coat check at a bar for the rare times I go, forget it.

TV make get the axe, and just use Netflix, we arent 100% sure on that yet.

As for the appetite suppresents, that would be just wrong, no way am I doing that to my kids to save a few bucks. We are a healthy family, use 4 just have good appetites. And we defintly arent over weight, we just burn calories like crazy

Im doing some math and even if we cut all unneeded things like the dish, the lotto tickets, etc, Im not even hitting $75 yet.

[taylyn]

Well maybe $1000 was high, I dont shop for them. My wife budgets $600 a month for them, but seems she is always at the store getting things in between the big monthly shop.


I call this the $20 Leech. It's like going to the bank machine a few times a week to take out $20 for a $5 item, and that other $15 gets frittered away. Do you set a cash budget? If your wife goes to the store between shops, this has to stop. It means she likely is not shopping the sales and is paying more than she should for convenience. Good planning on the weekend for the week ahead makes a huge difference. Check how many times you are going tot he bank machine too - that $1.50 per transaction can add up a lot in a month. Look at your bank fees for your accounts as well, there may be some room to maneuver there.

Other than that, there is not much to cut out - you certainly do not want to live in poverty, and you don;t want to feel like you are working for nothing. You have to have a life, too.

A second source of income is your best bet, just temporarily until you have the braces paid off. If benefits do not cover any of it (unlikely) you have to earn $300 more a month. At $10 (low-ball minimum wage type rate) that's 30 working hours a month, or 7.5 hours a week. Completely manageable. You get the income without sacrificing your current lifestyle, it's not that much time, your son gets a beautiful smile which will last him a lifetime. You AND your wife could split that part-time income and then cut your hours in half. It's doable, it's temporary.

Then next year on your income taxes, claim what you paid the prior year on your taxes. This was the only time I have ever reached the threshold to claim a medical expense, then use that refund to pay off the orthodontist. You can stop working part-time earlier and there you go. I opted to continue working part-time as I enjoy ther $500 a month discretionary income :)

[canuckgirl]

If you don't have the money for braces, you don't have it. How bad are your child's teeth? I can't even count the number of kids that have 1 tooth slightly askew and they pay thousands of dollars to fix it. Teeth can still get fixed as an adult. Sucks, but if it is what it is then you just don't have the money.

[Spidey]

I call this the $20 Leech. It's like going to the bank machine a few times a week to take out $20 for a $5 item, and that other $15 gets frittered away. Do you set a cash budget? If your wife goes to the store between shops, this has to stop. It means she likely is not shopping the sales and is paying more than she should for convenience. Good planning on the weekend for the week ahead makes a huge difference. Check how many times you are going tot he bank machine too - that $1.50 per transaction can add up a lot in a month. Look at your bank fees for your accounts as well, there may be some room to maneuver there.

Other than that, there is not much to cut out - you certainly do not want to live in poverty, and you don;t want to feel like you are working for nothing. You have to have a life, too.

A second source of income is your best bet, just temporarily until you have the braces paid off. If benefits do not cover any of it (unlikely) you have to earn $300 more a month. At $10 (low-ball minimum wage type rate) that's 30 working hours a month, or 7.5 hours a week. Completely manageable. You get the income without sacrificing your current lifestyle, it's not that much time, your son gets a beautiful smile which will last him a lifetime. You AND your wife could split that part-time income and then cut your hours in half. It's doable, it's temporary.

Then next year on your income taxes, claim what you paid the prior year on your taxes. This was the only time I have ever reached the threshold to claim a medical expense, then use that refund to pay off the orthodontist. You can stop working part-time earlier and there you go. I opted to continue working part-time as I enjoy ther $500 a month discretionary income :)

But how is needing milk a leech? When she shops she buys 5 at a time, my kids drink milk, I drink milk, we eat cereal, etc. You cant buy 20 4 litres of milk to last the month, it would go bad.

When she sees a bread sale on for 50% off, she buys tons and we freeze it, but sometimes those sales arent on or they are out, so she onyl buys a few. Bread as well is a staple that doesnt stay long, or last lonf if you leave it due to mold.

I wouldnt say this is like the bank machine thing because neither of us do the bank machine thing. IF we take out $20 and use $5, we have $15 left, dont go blow it. We have joint accounts, and we can see where the money goes. And besides the occasional Tim hortons 2-3 times a month (a month, not a week) theres no unneccesary transcations.

Our bank plan is unlimeted transactions so we dont get dinged those extra charges. We pay $13 a month for that, but for the amount of transactions and online bill payments we do, its paid for itself. We could mvoed banks to like PC Financial, but Ive been with BMO for almsot 35 years now, so hard to leave when I get a lot of extra charges waved when I have to do other stuff.

All the bad things youve mentioned are things we defintly dont do, because we know thats where you end up getting nickled and dimmed to death.

Im with you, I need to make more money, and when I mean me I mean me. Im not subjecting my wife to working more than she does, she already does tons with work and the kids. Plus Im the one that makes less, not her, I should be the one picking up the lack of finances.

Maybe I just need to do my business more. At one time I was making 20K a year off it, but thats when I worked part-time and could concentrate on it more. I mean one hour of mu computer work is netter than 6 hours of other work when it comes out to the same pay basically

[Spidey]

If you don't have the money for braces, you don't have it. How bad are your child's teeth? I can't even count the number of kids that have 1 tooth slightly askew and they pay thousands of dollars to fix it. Teeth can still get fixed as an adult. Sucks, but if it is what it is then you just don't have the money.

Thats why Im trying to get a second opion at least. Ive talked to some friends that where in the same boat, and they got a second opinion and got the same thing done with a retainer for a few years.

Im no dentist, his teeth look like teeth. They are over crowded and has only one more baby tooth to lose, and they are just being all misaligned because of this.

I will see whhat happens after i see about my benefits and my wifes. Maybe it will cut it in half, not sure.

Im sure there are lot of parents out there that are all going through the same thing. Maybe not braces, but way less money than expenses, and just living expenses. Its happening more and more, where does it end?

[oddduck]

I feel for you. While we're not there right now, we're close. Our situation is a bit different though as we're paying 2 mortgages right now.

I dunno, it sounds like you're doing the best you can. The only thing I can think of are your car and housing expenses (or possibly daycare, not knowing how old your kids are).

What percentage of your net income is your housing expenses (include everything -- taxes, hydro, natural gas, insurance, etc)?

What percentage of your net income is your vehicle/transportation costs?

We're a family of 4 (2 kids, 2 adults), but sort of 5 (MIL lives with us). I had been feeding my mother in law until the middle of April, but she has started to prepare her own meals now. My husband eats more then normal due to a medical condition, and can easily loose 20-30lbs if not careful. My kids are young, one is still in diapers -- not eating a whole lot. Our grocery bill is $120/week right now, closer to $150/week when MIL was eating with us. I could easily see it hitting $200 with 3 teens in the house. When I was off on maternity leave, our budget was lower as I was home earlier and could spend more time on meal prep.

Who does most of the evening meal prep? What does dinner normally consist of?

Personally, when I want to cut back on groceries -- I make more "from scratch". When ground beef, chicken, etc goes on sale -- I stock up. Eg. When I walked into Loblaws and saw ground beef at $0.99/lb I grabbed like 5 family packs. On Sunday, I prepared meals using ground beef and froze/refrigerated (chili, shepherds pie, meatballs, taco's, hamburgers, meatloaf). We warm one each day, and have leftovers for lunch.

Frozen veggies are cheaper then fresh if cost is a concern. But with a garden you should be in pretty good shape depending on what your growing.

Frozen boneless skinless chicken breasts are quite a bit cheaper then fresh as well. I regularly get these for $1.99/lb. Costco also has powdered mashed potatoes, 18 pouches for $11. While I wholeheartedly prefer actual potatoes, for the price I really can't beat them.

I personally try my best to keep most my meals under $10, but regularly splurge on a few meals each week (steak, prime rib roast, kabobs). I know my Easter dinner alone ran $40, but it was so worth it :)

Most stores now break up the bills by department. Where is most of your grocery money being spent?

[CSK'sMom]

We've been there with the braces, twice with the same kid. Almost $10k by the time we did both phases. Our benefits don't cover ortho work either. :| We were lucky to have a down payment both times to get the monthly payments down. The last phase I think cost us $108/mth.

If it was me, the toys would be going. All toys come with a cost and it's the first place to cut the budget. So instead of a trailer you're back to tenting it. Hulu is a great option for tv, just hit the website with the blocker pick a show to watch. The grocery budget is way out of whack too. We're a family of 5 and don't spend anywhere near that much with essentially 3 grown men. Sales and bulk and no unplanned grocery trips. Run in to pick up milk and walk out $40 later with other impulse buys. Shop to a grocery budget vs a meal plan and forget stuff like boneless skinless chicken or steaks.

There are definitely ways to find the money but I think this is more an exercise in priorities and wants. For us in this situation, braces were a need due to structural issues vs. cosmetics. She still may need her jaw broken actually after all of this... Our wants went out the door as her need took precedence...

[TrevorK]

So maybe on RFD where cheap is king, I can get some ideas. As I am typing this I am wearing my $4 polo shirt from VV, my $7 pair of shoes from VV and my jeans from 10 years ago. So I'm showing that as a family we aren't extravagant or care about name brands. So what am I missing, where did I mess up. All the books I read is cut back where you can, and that makes sense, but what happens when you are cut back as much as you can and cant cut anymore?

As I said to my wife last night, I think the man upstairs always wants me to be poor. Anytime we ever get ahead, like a bill paid off, etc, there is always something that comes along and just takes it place.

I'm not a parent, but I think I can contribute something from the financial perspective.

You seem to indicate increasing your incoming and decreasing your day-to-day expenses isn't possible. I'll take you at your word that's true, because without seeing a budget/inspecting the bills I can't verify.

Why not try something outside the box and extend your mortgage/withdraw some equity? Not everyone in life can make large sums of money and there's nothing wrong with taking an extra 10 years to pay off your house if it increases your quality of life. Your home is a large source of value you can tap into to help increase your quality of life until your children are old enough to take care of themselves and move out.


The ideas being thrown out are saving a dollar here, a dollar there. Which is great. But if you need to save large sums/access high amounts of funds you're going to need to something big as well.

[taylyn]

I think as a parent it's up to us to provide for our kids, and I include braces if needed in that thinking. My parents did it for me, and I was - and am - forever grateful. Benefits only cover the cost of braces for minor children, not adults, so if you wait for them to do it as adults the entire financial burden will be on them. You find a way.

Your issue, braces or otherwise, is you just don't earn enough as a family to support what you need AND enjoy your life while living it. The only solution is to earn more money.

While I can understand that a family of 5 can consume a lot of food, it is a lot of your income to spend. You have to try different things. For example, in the winter months instead of spending $30 a week on cereals and milk, eat oatmeal or eggs. Your consumables (milk, bread) are a high proportion of your grocery spending. Are you throwing out any food (like veggies or things in the fridge)? Do you have set menus for the week? Do your kids require snacks a lot? If so, do they have say an apple, or a pudding cup? Have you calculated the averge cost per meal per person? It's a really good exercise to do this for a few weeks. You may find you are spending a disporportionate amount of say lunches and can look at ways to reduce cost. There are tons of ways to reduce costs by a few dollars, and I say with certainty it adds up fast. I used to buy a magazine I loved every month at the store - cost was $4.95 a magazine. Through here, I ordered a subscriptuion via Amazon and got 12 issues for $13. Savings per year: $46.40 just on that alone. You need to get serious and see exactly where your grocery bills are going, and how much you actually are spending on each meal. It takes some time, but organizaing menus for the week based on whatever is on sale will save you time, money and energy. You need $300 a month, so you need to spend $700 a month on groceries. That's $175 a week. If I can make a full chicken dinner with leftovers for 6 people for $20, you can figure out how to do this.

[Spidey]

We've been there with the braces, twice with the same kid. Almost $10k by the time we did both phases. Our benefits don't cover ortho work either. :| We were lucky to have a down payment both times to get the monthly payments down. The last phase I think cost us $108/mth.

If it was me, the toys would be going. All toys come with a cost and it's the first place to cut the budget. So instead of a trailer you're back to tenting it. Hulu is a great option for tv, just hit the website with the blocker pick a show to watch. The grocery budget is way out of whack too. We're a family of 5 and don't spend anywhere near that much with essentially 3 grown men. Sales and bulk and no unplanned grocery trips. Run in to pick up milk and walk out $40 later with other impulse buys. Shop to a grocery budget vs a meal plan and forget stuff like boneless skinless chicken or steaks.

There are definitely ways to find the money but I think this is more an exercise in priorities and wants. For us in this situation, braces were a need due to structural issues vs. cosmetics. She still may need her jaw broken actually after all of this... Our wants went out the door as her need took precedence...

Tonight we are going over the gorcery budget and see what can be cut. Maybe the kids and I drink half a glass of milk instead of a full one. Actually I bet I myself out eat your 3 grown men per day. With the amount I do and move around, my body needs to be constantly fed. No one that has ever seen me eat can beleive the amount of calories and food I consume per day, And my other 2 sons are right behind me. Its hard to compare grocery budgets when you dont know a families eating habits. Maybe ours is actually low for the amount of food we eat. Not sure. But defintly a good place to start. When I look in the pantry its not full of crap snacks, etc. And anything that is for snacks are for school and work lunches. Granola bars, your not eating those around the house, those are for lunches (as an example) And its rows and rows of no name products, or staples for baking and coooking.

We do do sales and we by bulk a lot, or if there is a huge meat sale we are buying a lot and freezing it for later. And its not high end steaks or boneless chicken. This is chicken parts by the cardboard box, or even cheaper is whole chickens from the Hutterites we cut up ourselves or roast for a weekend meal. As for steaks, Ive never bought one in my life. I wouldnt even known a good price for a streak, if I dont shoot it or butcher is myself, its not in the freezer. Being from the farm there are ways to get meat cheap, you just have to work for it.

As for the milk run, I have seen that she comes home with stuff, but its still stuff to eat. Like more bananas we ran out of, or some cereal that was on sale, or more bagels that were 50% off. its not like she comes home with 2 Cosmo magazines and a crossword puzzle

I will have to look into this Hulu thing, maybe be worht it. See what it takes to have it stream to 2 other tvs in the house, and use that and Netflix.

True, the toys can go, but at what cost. My quad is used for work and play, and shoveling snow for 5 hours vs using the quad for half an hour (we used to have to shovel, and thats how long it took sometimes) just makes sense. It isnt some racing quad, this is a work horse 4 x 4 quad. Plus its for good stress relief and family time as well.

But then again, the cost of insurance and plates and maintenance are there as well even if it is paid off. But on the other hand, where do you draw the line where you give everything up recreational just to save some money. There has to be a balance and you have to have some fun sometimes.

[Spidey]

I'm not a parent, but I think I can contribute something from the financial perspective.

You seem to indicate increasing your incoming and decreasing your day-to-day expenses isn't possible. I'll take you at your word that's true, because without seeing a budget/inspecting the bills I can't verify.

Why not try something outside the box and extend your mortgage/withdraw some equity? Not everyone in life can make large sums of money and there's nothing wrong with taking an extra 10 years to pay off your house if it increases your quality of life. Your home is a large source of value you can tap into to help increase your quality of life until your children are old enough to take care of themselves and move out.

The ideas being thrown out are saving a dollar here, a dollar there. Which is great. But if you need to save large sums/access high amounts of funds you're going to need to something big as well.

Im defintly going to push more for increasing my income. It seems to be the only way to take the stress off. Sure there are ways to trim, but its not going to end up saving hundred and hundreds per month, maybe $100 give or take (just from some quick math I did ) if there was something that would defintlly save us a ton of money without putting a burden on us emotionally or making more stress in another way, I would do it. Could we make due with 1 car, defiitly not. Sure it would save us a ton, but with a working family of 5 and no public tranportation, and 2 people staring work at the same time, how is that even possible.

The nickel and dime stuff we do now to save defintly doesnt ever seem to matter. In fact it makes us want to say, why even bother to NOT go out to eat or to NOT go out for beers with the guys. Doesnt seem to make a difference anyway, just more miserable because your constantly saying no we cant to friends because we cant go out here and there with them like we want. Ive had to say no to a lot of things Ive been invited to because I cant afford it, like even ball hockey league because I couldnt afford the entry fee.

Everything goes up but your wage, just like everyone else. While tons of people say "What do I do with my bonus this year", we are saying "Whats a bonus?" Gas is up all across the country for everyone, and while my driving habits where frugal already, theres no way to not drive, and when that price goes up, no matter how cheap I am with driving, that moneys got to come from somewhere

[Spidey]

I feel for you. While we're not there right now, we're close. Our situation is a bit different though as we're paying 2 mortgages right now.

I dunno, it sounds like you're doing the best you can. The only thing I can think of are your car and housing expenses (or possibly daycare, not knowing how old your kids are).

What percentage of your net income is your housing expenses (include everything -- taxes, hydro, natural gas, insurance, etc)?

What percentage of your net income is your vehicle/transportation costs?

We're a family of 4 (2 kids, 2 adults), but sort of 5 (MIL lives with us). I had been feeding my mother in law until the middle of April, but she has started to prepare her own meals now. My husband eats more then normal due to a medical condition, and can easily loose 20-30lbs if not careful. My kids are young, one is still in diapers -- not eating a whole lot. Our grocery bill is $120/week right now, closer to $150/week when MIL was eating with us. I could easily see it hitting $200 with 3 teens in the house. When I was off on maternity leave, our budget was lower as I was home earlier and could spend more time on meal prep.

Who does most of the evening meal prep? What does dinner normally consist of?

Personally, when I want to cut back on groceries -- I make more "from scratch". When ground beef, chicken, etc goes on sale -- I stock up. Eg. When I walked into Loblaws and saw ground beef at $0.99/lb I grabbed like 5 family packs. On Sunday, I prepared meals using ground beef and froze/refrigerated (chili, shepherds pie, meatballs, taco's, hamburgers, meatloaf). We warm one each day, and have leftovers for lunch.

Frozen veggies are cheaper then fresh if cost is a concern. But with a garden you should be in pretty good shape depending on what your growing.

Frozen boneless skinless chicken breasts are quite a bit cheaper then fresh as well. I regularly get these for $1.99/lb. Costco also has powdered mashed potatoes, 18 pouches for $11. While I wholeheartedly prefer actual potatoes, for the price I really can't beat them.

I personally try my best to keep most my meals under $10, but regularly splurge on a few meals each week (steak, prime rib roast, kabobs). I know my Easter dinner alone ran $40, but it was so worth it :)

Most stores now break up the bills by department. Where is most of your grocery money being spent?


All the things groceries and meal wise, we do. Sundays are meal prep days for the week, so no relying in the fast stuff like pizza pops, etc In fact the only way I can see our grocery bill being less is well, to eat less, and I dont see that happening. Im not going to tell my kids not to eat.

Dinners at night are prepared by my wife with the kids helping. It can vary from one night being Hamburger Helper to the next being Tuna Melts, to the next one of thr frozen or chilled meals from Sunday. A lot of casseroles so they can be just heated up and then have left overs the next day

But lets face it, the price of food is a lot higher than even late last year. When things are up 20-25% doesnt take long for the grocery bills to go up

[CSK'sMom]

Sure there has to be balance but it's not a forever thing either. Say sell the trailer to make the down payment large enough to cut the monthly bill and if you can earn extra pay extra to get the braces paid off sooner. Then when you feel in a more comfortable financial situation you buy again KWIM?

As Taylyn said, take a good hard look at the grocery budget and break it down to cost per meal. I hate to say it, but we've never had any "snack" type stuff in this house. They are notoriously unhealthy and expensive, especially times 5 per weekday for lunches. Make your own. ;) Home baking is a better option, cheaper and at least you know whats in it... We eat very well, I've always been a bit of a healthy eating nazi. My kids never had store bought cookies for example, they got cookies when I baked. We all sit down together every single night to a homecooked, healthy meal. I use nothing but fresh veggies but we do have the advantage of all the free produce we can eat as a perk of hubby's job. I even made all our own bread for years when the kids were young in a bread machine. No instant type oatmeals (again yucky nutritionally) and instead steel cut oats bought dirt cheap in bulk and pre-cooked off in a batch. Pennies a serving, healthy as hell and filling. All things to seriously look at....

[Spidey]

I think as a parent it's up to us to provide for our kids, and I include braces if needed in that thinking. My parents did it for me, and I was - and am - forever grateful. Benefits only cover the cost of braces for minor children, not adults, so if you wait for them to do it as adults the entire financial burden will be on them. You find a way.

Your issue, braces or otherwise, is you just don't earn enough as a family to support what you need AND enjoy your life while living it. The only solution is to earn more money.

While I can understand that a family of 5 can consume a lot of food, it is a lot of your income to spend. You have to try different things. For example, in the winter months instead of spending $30 a week on cereals and milk, eat oatmeal or eggs. Your consumables (milk, bread) are a high proportion of your grocery spending. Are you throwing out any food (like veggies or things in the fridge)? Do you have set menus for the week? Do your kids require snacks a lot? If so, do they have say an apple, or a pudding cup? Have you calculated the averge cost per meal per person? It's a really good exercise to do this for a few weeks. You may find you are spending a disporportionate amount of say lunches and can look at ways to reduce cost. There are tons of ways to reduce costs by a few dollars, and I say with certainty it adds up fast. I used to buy a magazine I loved every month at the store - cost was $4.95 a magazine. Through here, I ordered a subscriptuion via Amazon and got 12 issues for $13. Savings per year: $46.40 just on that alone. You need to get serious and see exactly where your grocery bills are going, and how much you actually are spending on each meal. It takes some time, but organizaing menus for the week based on whatever is on sale will save you time, money and energy. You need $300 a month, so you need to spend $700 a month on groceries. That's $175 a week. If I can make a full chicken dinner with leftovers for 6 people for $20, you can figure out how to do this.

Throwing out of food idsvery rare, maybe an occasional last peice of bread that went moldy that was forgotten about, or a piece of fruit that fell behind something. But more or less everything brought in is consumed.

Set menus, not sure what you mean. Do we eat the same things each week, no. But the meals can vary from Kraft dinner with tuna and peas to pork chops the next, all depends what was in the freezer on Sunday.

Snacks for the kids are always fruit, any boughten snacks are for lunches, and only one per day. We all like desert, so a no name pudding cup once a day as a desert I think is alright. I mean I want a desert to for lunch, why wouldnt they. But if there was baking done thats always eaten first, the packaged stuff is always used last and it wont go bad for a long time.

magazines, neither of us buy any, dvds, we rent from the library for free. No idea what we spend each meal, but its not like they consist of Sirloin steaks and shrimp, and whats the cost of making a cassrole, no idea. But if the kids are eating healthy and eating, not picking at it and not eating, then its a well made meal.

All of your ideas are great, but more or less we are doing them all. Each breakfast isnt just cereal and milk, one day its that, the next toast, the next oatmeal, maybe eggs and toast one day. The kids make their own breakfasts, so each one varies. My son eats a whole grapefruit at breakfast many times, not the half, the whole thing as well as his breakfast. Its not like its 2 bowls of Lucky Charms, he's eating a healthy breakfast, how can I say to a 14 year old boy whos hungry at breakfast to not eat a hole grapefruit if he's hungry.

[Spidey]

Sure there has to be balance but it's not a forever thing either. Say sell the trailer to make the down payment large enough to cut the monthly bill and if you can earn extra pay extra to get the braces paid off sooner. Then when you feel in a more comfortable financial situation you buy again KWIM?

As Taylyn said, take a good hard look at the grocery budget and break it down to cost per meal. I hate to say it, but we've never had any "snack" type stuff in this house. They are notoriously unhealthy and expensive, especially times 5 per weekday for lunches. Make your own. ;) Home baking is a better option, cheaper and at least you know whats in it... We eat very well, I've always been a bit of a healthy eating nazi. My kids never had store bought cookies for example, they got cookies when I baked. We all sit down together every single night to a homecooked, healthy meal. I use nothing but fresh veggies but we do have the advantage of all the free produce we can eat as a perk of hubby's job. I even made all our own bread for years when the kids were young in a bread machine. No instant type oatmeals (again yucky nutritionally) and instead steel cut oats bought dirt cheap in bulk and pre-cooked off in a batch. Pennies a serving, healthy as hell and filling. All things to seriously look at....

The snacks in our house are home baked. I like desserts, so sure I eat them. The other snack stuff like say a pudding cup or granola bars or the 50% yogurt cups you can get are for backup when they baked stuff is gone.

We domnt have pop in the house or store bought cookies either. In fact their friends are all weirded out when they come over and they arent allowed a pop or to snack on a bag of chips, etc while just being there. we are pretty good about healthy eating, but you cant always be 100% perfect when eating to :)

Everything you mentioned above, we do, or do to a degree. We may even do other things that cut back that you dont. Know that we have a garden we havent paid for potatoes in over a year now.

Do we give up camping for a couple years? That would be a hard one, while I know a lot on here dont camp, its been a part of our lives for 13 years now as a family alone, thats not including with us growing up. While most on here are flying to Disneyland or going to Mexico, thats what we do as our family time

More of it points to I just need to make more money. I need to be like all the RFDers on here that are amking 100K plus before they are 25. Please send me some places to go to get that kind of money please :-)

[Enslaver]

I'm sorry but it seems the only way out of your predicament is to make more money.

Perhaps work some overtime etc.

When money is tight and you've already got everything budgeted and well thought out what else is there to do?

[Spidey]

I'm sorry but it seems the only way out of your predicament is to make more money.

Perhaps work some overtime etc.

When money is tight and you've already got everything budgeted and well thought out what else is there to do?

No overtime, Im on salary.


I could push my business more, but then thats not guaranteed money, but more per hour. While a part-time job would be for sure money, it would be longer hours for the same pay.

Its just looking that way, I could slash the budget even more that we have, but at what cost, everyone being bitter because things are cut back even more than they are now

[3weddings]

Hi friend...long time no see!(on my part!)

I was separated last summer and have been living a tumultuous life since June. Our lives (the kids and I) are not even close to what we were used to, but I am managing. We live much more humbly now, we don't go out as much, we have gone back to a simpler lifestyle.

Budgeting, planning, and sticking to it appear to be working for me. Are the kids happy? I think so. I know I am much happier now. Are we doing without, we most certainly are, however what we are doing without we didn't need.

My biggest joy comes from menu planning, and shopping around that. I wish I could shop biweekly, but I can't store the purchases so I still succumb to weekly shopping. I flyer shop as much as possible and carry them with me to price match at the grocers (yes me!!?!!)

As for braces, although we have not hit that nail on the head yet, my own personal opinion on anything cosmetic like braces is that I would only allow them if they are medically necessary. I am sorry but these days there are too many (hideously) perfect mouths out there!! God did not put us on earth to appear perfect...a blemish here and there is not a bad thing.

[Spidey]

Hi friend...long time no see!(on my part!)

I was separated last summer and have been living a tumultuous life since June. Our lives (the kids and I) are not even close to what we were used to, but I am managing. We live much more humbly now, we don't go out as much, we have gone back to a simpler lifestyle.

Budgeting, planning, and sticking to it appear to be working for me. Are the kids happy? I think so. I know I am much happier now. Are we doing without, we most certainly are, however what we are doing without we didn't need.

My biggest joy comes from menu planning, and shopping around that. I wish I could shop biweekly, but I can't store the purchases so I still succumb to weekly shopping. I flyer shop as much as possible and carry them with me to price match at the grocers (yes me!!?!!)

As for braces, although we have not hit that nail on the head yet, my own personal opinion on anything cosmetic like braces is that I would only allow them if they are medically necessary. I am sorry but these days there are too many (hideously) perfect mouths out there!! God did not put us on earth to appear perfect...a blemish here and there is not a bad thing.

So sorry to hear that, its been a long time and wondered what happened.

It does seem a lot more kids these days have braces, and is it just for cosmetic reasons or that they actually need them. While I have good teeth, they arent perfect, and Im sure I as well could get braces.

Thats why I want a second opinion. Just talked to someone in my office that went to the same guy at it was going to be $7000 for her at the same place, and then other place about 2 hours away was $5400 for the exact same thing.

if he needs them, Im not going to deny them to him, but if its for cosmetic reasons, probably not. If its to do with over crowding and 2 many teeth, maybe a tooth be removed to make room, and let nature do its magic.

So far I have emailed all the orthodontists in Southern Alberta, and most are in Calgary, and some are offering free consulatatioins.

Sorry, Im just leary of the greed of dentists these days. Years ago I went to one that said I had 4 cavities and needed fillings. Struck me as odd as the year before I had none at another dentist, and have the same brushing/flossing techniques.

Went for a second opinion, and I had none. So the bastard was going to out in 4 fillings in 2 fake cavities just to make some money. Since that day I have never trusted them.

[nyik]

Hey Spidey,

Didn't see if you mentioned this or not, but is there any way to increase your family income? I know you mentioned that you weren't looking at getting a raise until fall, what about your wife?

Realistically, you can only do two things - cut spending, or increase cash flow. I'm sure you've racked your brains out with this. But at the end of the day, if you can't cut anymore, you're just looking at increasing cash flow. Can either one of you get another part-time job? What about taking advantage of an asset you already have? ie, if you had a spare room, maybe look to see if renting it out is feasible? Any work-at-home jobs you guys can do? Are your kids old enough for a paper route/summer yard work?

I feel your pain. But on the bright side, you're carrying on with no CC debt, and teaching your kids to be responsible. Kudos to you, my friend.

[Orphen98y]

Couple ways to save on food,though you may not want to do this. You could go to your corner store, and maybe ask them to save their old bread for you. Can always make up a story like you use it to feed birds. I did this for about 2 years, went in before new stock came in and got all the old bread for free.
Plus you can use any extra bread and dry it out and use it as filler for meats such as hamburger.

Possible way to save on eggs, if you happen to live close to an egg farm. see if they allow you to buy direct from them, I used to get a flat of cracks (eggs the bakeries buy) for $3.

[taylyn]

So sorry to hear that, its been a long time and wondered what happened.

It does seem a lot more kids these days have braces, and is it just for cosmetic reasons or that they actually need them. While I have good teeth, they arent perfect, and Im sure I as well could get braces.

Thats why I want a second opinion. Just talked to someone in my office that went to the same guy at it was going to be $7000 for her at the same place, and then other place about 2 hours away was $5400 for the exact same thing.

if he needs them, Im not going to deny them to him, but if its for cosmetic reasons, probably not. If its to do with over crowding and 2 many teeth, maybe a tooth be removed to make room, and let nature do its magic.

So far I have emailed all the orthodontists in Southern Alberta, and most are in Calgary, and some are offering free consulatatioins.

Sorry, Im just leary of the greed of dentists these days. Years ago I went to one that said I had 4 cavities and needed fillings. Struck me as odd as the year before I had none at another dentist, and have the same brushing/flossing techniques.

Went for a second opinion, and I had none. So the bastard was going to out in 4 fillings in 2 fake cavities just to make some money. Since that day I have never trusted them.

See what the cost includes. It's usually better for the higher cost because it includes everything from retainers to post-braces check-ups for life, and any adjustments he might need in future. I doubt the reason is purely cosmetic or greed. If you do not align teeth properly he can have bite issues later on, jaw alignment problems, etc. Nature does not fix bad teeth. My daughter has a front baby tooth with no adult tooth underneath. One of the good reasons for braces was so the teeth would align and save the baby tooth for about 15 years before she would need an implant. Without it, the baby tooth would be crooked and pushed around with the other adult teeth and fall out in 5 years. It's a worthwhile expense for many reasons.

Don't be discouraged. Take a look at where every dime is going. Get a second job. Don't give up camping with your family - that is so important to your family. Look into what your insurance pays. Shop the sales and plan weekly menus around them. Don't let your kids see you stressed about it. Look into a line of credit or loan from your bank. There are ways, you just need to take a breath and find them, it's not hopeless. If I can do what I do then so can you. Once I review the flyers tomorrow and make up my menus for next week (which will be for 4 people as my parents are coming in from Alberta to visit) I will send it to you so you can see how I do it. Prices are not that much different here and there.

[CatDog]

Seems the only solution is to increase your income. Part time job on the weekends, extra hours?

RE: braces.. yes it's for cosmetics IMO it is money well spent.

[Lone_Prodigy]

How old are your kids? Maybe they could chip in with some part-time work or a job in the summer. Tutoring, babysitting, mowing neighbours' lawns.

I know you cut out junk food and try to eat healthy, but junk food is cheap food. High-calorie food that fills you up could cut down on food costs.

I seem to remember you had a thread about moving back to the city? If it cuts down on commuting costs and time and results in a smaller mortgage it could be something to consider. True, you lose the quiet and space a rural home gives you, but it may be easier to get work in the city. For example, if your daily commute is 2 hours, that's 2x5 = 10 hours a week. A $8/hour part-time job for 10 hours is an extra $80 a week.

[camzie]

We budget for every little expense as well. Welcome to the club. From what you describe, your quality of life seems fine. Just need to tighten up and bit, sounds like you want to save money but you aren't willing to actually do the hard work of cutting back. Well this is only $xx and we enjoy it, etc. Keep track of every expense, keep receipts. If you do a good job tracking its amazing all of the sub $20 purchases you can find that don't seem like a big deal at time but can add up to several hundred dollars in a month.

For the braces, I'm no expert and don't have experience with braces, however I have heard from some people that getting braces is no longer recommended ( except by orthodontists who obviously have an incentive to push braces ) until adulthood because your jaw is still growing. You could pay 8 G's for braces and when your kid is 21 their teeth are f'ed again because they moved as the jaw developed, wisdom teeth came in, etc. Case in point, my teeth were perfect until my wisdom teeth came in, then my bottom front teeth crowded a bit. This would have happened if I had braces earlier in life.

[KCO]

If your son needs the braces, do whatever you can for him. I am so happy my parents got braces for me, I don't know how they did it. Family of 6 on under $50000 a year when they were both working, which wasn't all the time...it must have been hard but they did it! My brother wasn't so lucky, and you can see how uncomfortable he has always been with his teeth's appearance...he doesn't fully smile and always covers his mouth. It does a lot for a person's self esteem.

I hope you do figure out a way, it sounds like you try so hard and are still stuck in a bad situation...there have been lots of great ideas here. I second the previous posts that mention the grocery bill and the need to reduce that...Cheaper foods are definately a good way to go. Oatmeal, pancakes, potatoes, rice, pasta, learn to make your own yogurt, all good cheap staples that should help fill up your family. A serving of oatmeal compared to a serving of box cereal has a huge cost difference. Find ways to cook with the cheapest staples to make different types of meals so that everyone is happy and doesn't get sick of a food. Make a couple days during the week meatless days, beans/legumes are good and cheap! Since you have a garden, try a veggie chili, with just veggies and beans and spices...that sort of thing. Savings will add up!

And clip coupons and price match while shopping. Each week I go shopping, and save $10 - 20 a trip by using coupons or pricematching, which is a lot of money over the month. Walmart, No Frills, Freshco all will pricematch. No one with a family has time to run around to all the stores, make the best of their flyers and use them somewhere else!

[jaxx lite]

A trip to Halifax this summer for a wedding we are members of and have been saving up for since the fall will be our first big vacation on 4 years, and we have cut back things just to save up for that, and will still be about $2000 short to take it after the flight is paid for. But its a promise we made to our best friends last fall when they asked us.


I'm sure that your friends would understand if you told them that you can't afford to go to the wedding.

And life would go on if you didn't go to their wedding.

No joke.

[jaxx lite]

I take my pet in for shots cause I dont spend hundreds of dollars on them for all the extras and buy them the cheapest pet food I can find.

How many pets do you have?

You won't adopt more pets, right?

[Spidey]

I'm sure that your friends would understand if you told them that you can't afford to go to the wedding.

And life would go on if you didn't go to their wedding.

No joke.

We arent just going to the wedding, we are part of the wedding as best man and maid of honour. We accepted that after a family meeting saying that this will be our summer trip and no camping becaue of it.

As for not going, tickets for 5 are already bought, non refundable from West Jet

[Spidey]

How many pets do you have?

You won't adopt more pets, right?

we have 3, 1 dog 2 cats. Used to be 3 cats but one went missing last week. They are outside cats for mousing, so they are needed out here for that. Our one cat we have had for almost 4 years, we only buy food and worm pills for. Our cats dont get shots

[jaxx lite]

Do you have cable tv?

If yes,
you don't really need it, right?

[Spidey]

How old are your kids? Maybe they could chip in with some part-time work or a job in the summer. Tutoring, babysitting, mowing neighbours' lawns.

I know you cut out junk food and try to eat healthy, but junk food is cheap food. High-calorie food that fills you up could cut down on food costs.

I seem to remember you had a thread about moving back to the city? If it cuts down on commuting costs and time and results in a smaller mortgage it could be something to consider. True, you lose the quiet and space a rural home gives you, but it may be easier to get work in the city. For example, if your daily commute is 2 hours, that's 2x5 = 10 hours a week. A $8/hour part-time job for 10 hours is an extra $80 a week.

Oldest is under 14, and he chipped in already by stepping up and telling us we could cut back his allowance. Summer job he kinda has with cadets since he gets paid to go to camp.

Saying that, he helps out tons here already that saves us money and time anyway. He's looking into his babysitting course, so will see.

Moving back to the city isnt like commuting from the suburbs into Toronto where most of the RFD community is based, My or my wifes commute time one way to work is 20 minutes right now living 7 miles out.

So if we moved back to the city, we would save maybe 10 minutes each in commute time both ways, since the major time is once we hit the city limits.

Plus when I looked at the local real estate city property taxs and utilities are way higher than what we pay now out here. It used to be the opposite, but not the same now. So while we may save on mortgage, we would lose that in utilities and taxes. So basically the costs are just in a different place, but not making any headway.

Im pushing for extra on my side business. If I can even fix 3 machines a week, that would be $500 a month there on average. In fact im working on one right now, but just got home at 9. Hard to find the time to work extra when your only getting home at 9 pm and leave at 7:30 am

[Spidey]

Do you have cable tv?

If yes,
you don't really need it, right?

Thats been discussed, yes it can be cut, save $30. Its on the tentative block as well.

All the little cuts Ive been contemplating though will only amount to $75 a month. We just dont have any daily habits to cut back on like coffees or a daily muffin

Lotto tickets at $6 a week would save me $144 a year. I dont think that $144 will go far, plus my wins equal to more than that anyway per year.

But its on the list

[blainehamilton]

Admitting defeat is an overdramatic conclusion here. Sounds more like apathy about the situation.


Simple, if painful solutions.

Cancel the Dish service. Get a used set of rabbit ears. Cancel Netflix. Spending $30 on satellite AND another $8 on Netflix a month is stupid. Set an educational and financial good example for your kids. $40 a month saved.

Cut your internet to a 'lite' high speed service. The kids get high speed access at school. All you need at home is light speed for internet and email. That should save another $10 to $20 a month. $10 a month saved.

Cut your grocery bill. Start growing all your vegetables and berries. From the 4? acres you have you should never need to buy Potatoes, Turnips, Peas, Carrotts, Rasperries, Strawberries, Pumpkin, Onions, Radishes, etc, etc. Start drinking less milk (but still enough to get your calcium and vit a/d, and drink more water. High metabolism is no excuse for such a high monthly bill for a family of 5. Start looking at everyone's caloric intake and see how much excess your family members are consuming each day. $100 a month per person should be MORE than enough food. $200 a month saved.

Get rid of the cell phones. Keep the phone at home, and use the phone at the office. 15 years ago we survived just fine without them. The phones will still work for 911 emergency service even if you end your normal provider service. $60 a month saved.

Get rid of the trailer. Payments you can't afford, no matter how much fun camping is. You can still stay in a tent perfectly fine for the couple of trips a year. Making payments on an RV is one of the dumbest things you can ever do, since they depreciate 30% of their value in the first 3 years, 50% after 10. $200? a month saved.

Since you already booked 5 tickets for the wedding (and you shouldn't have - at most just you and your wife should have gone) you need to find a family/friend to stay with in Halifax. Your family can't afford summer hotel/restaurant rates in the maratimes right now. $300 one time savings.

No more lottery tickets. None. No more Tim Hortons. None. No more wings and beer. None. Take that $20 'fun money' you have each week, and stick it in the account to pay for the braces. You can't afford frills, you said that yourself. Until you give up all these things, there is still money basically. $80 a month saved

Allowances? Sorry, no room in the budget for that. The kids can help contribute to the household chores. Any income they bring in on their own should be theirs to keep with your assistance in managing it.

You need to consider a different employer and possibly a different career. It's great that you love your job, but if it barely puts food on the table for your family, you need to swallow your pride and do something you may not like for a while to help ends meet better. You haven't even mentioned what you do for a living. DJ work after hours doesn't sound like it would bring in a big salary either.

BOTH you and your wife need to get a second job. Part time 5-10 hours a week. Even at $10 an hour, you will pull in a minimum of $300 more a month working a single 5 hour shift on a weekend each. Raises aren't an option as you eluded, so a second income is the next logical step. $300 a month extra income.

Fixing computers as a side business was fine and dandy a decade or so ago, but now it's just wasted time. Nobody is going to spend hundreds of dollars to fix a computer when they can buy a brand new one for the same amount. Stop wasting time and effort trying to promote a failed garage workbench industry and get a real second income. You can bring in more income with next to no effort at a part time job elsewhere.



So there you have it. Cutting hard to the bone and following just the items I listed here should put an extra $1000 on the table PER MONTH. Suddenly $5000 for braces isn't so scary.

The real issue is making these hard choices, and sticking to them.

[blainehamilton]

I know you mentioned you upgraded the insulation in your attic sometime in the past year to save on heating costs, and you have a cistern (sp?) and bring home your own water to save on those costs.

Do you have an automatic thermostat to reduce the temps when nobody is home during the day? We saved 10 to 20 percent of our heating costs with one.

Also, do you have CFLs installed in all the light fixtures in the house? We saved another 10-20 percent in electricity costs with those.


Just noticed you are ALSO making payments on a car as well. How much per month, and how many payments still oweing on this? If it's leased, break it, and get something used, cheap.

[AudiDude]

Admitting defeat is an overdramatic conclusion here. Sounds more like apathy about the situation.


Simple, if painful solutions.

Cancel the Dish service. Get a used set of rabbit ears. Cancel Netflix. Spending $30 on satellite AND another $8 on Netflix a month is stupid. Set an educational and financial good example for your kids. $40 a month saved.

Cut your internet to a 'lite' high speed service. The kids get high speed access at school. All you need at home is light speed for internet and email. That should save another $10 to $20 a month. $10 a month saved.

Cut your grocery bill. Start growing all your vegetables and berries. From the 4? acres you have you should never need to buy Potatoes, Turnips, Peas, Carrotts, Rasperries, Strawberries, Pumpkin, Onions, Radishes, etc, etc. Start drinking less milk (but still enough to get your calcium and vit a/d, and drink more water. High metabolism is no excuse for such a high monthly bill for a family of 5. Start looking at everyone's caloric intake and see how much excess your family members are consuming each day. $100 a month per person should be MORE than enough food. $200 a month saved.

Get rid of the cell phones. Keep the phone at home, and use the phone at the office. 15 years ago we survived just fine without them. The phones will still work for 911 emergency service even if you end your normal provider service. $60 a month saved.

Get rid of the trailer. Payments you can't afford, no matter how much fun camping is. You can still stay in a tent perfectly fine for the couple of trips a year. Making payments on an RV is one of the dumbest things you can ever do, since they depreciate 30% of their value in the first 3 years, 50% after 10. $200? a month saved.

Since you already booked 5 tickets for the wedding (and you shouldn't have - at most just you and your wife should have gone) you need to find a family/friend to stay with in Halifax. Your family can't afford summer hotel/restaurant rates in the maratimes right now. $300 one time savings.

No more lottery tickets. None. No more Tim Hortons. None. No more wings and beer. None. Take that $20 'fun money' you have each week, and stick it in the account to pay for the braces. You can't afford frills, you said that yourself. Until you give up all these things, there is still money basically. $80 a month saved

Allowances? Sorry, no room in the budget for that. The kids can help contribute to the household chores. Any income they bring in on their own should be theirs to keep with your assistance in managing it.

You need to consider a different employer and possibly a different career. It's great that you love your job, but if it barely puts food on the table for your family, you need to swallow your pride and do something you may not like for a while to help ends meet better. You haven't even mentioned what you do for a living. DJ work after hours doesn't sound like it would bring in a big salary either.

BOTH you and your wife need to get a second job. Part time 5-10 hours a week. Even at $10 an hour, you will pull in a minimum of $300 more a month working a single 5 hour shift on a weekend each. Raises aren't an option as you eluded, so a second income is the next logical step. $300 a month extra income.

Fixing computers as a side business was fine and dandy a decade or so ago, but now it's just wasted time. Nobody is going to spend hundreds of dollars to fix a computer when they can buy a brand new one for the same amount. Stop wasting time and effort trying to promote a failed garage workbench industry and get a real second income. You can bring in more income with next to no effort at a part time job elsewhere.



So there you have it. Cutting hard to the bone and following just the items I listed here should put an extra $1000 on the table PER MONTH. Suddenly $5000 for braces isn't so scary.

The real issue is making these hard choices, and sticking to them.


Pretty much sums up what I was thinking. Now lets get the fact out in the open that I am not married with kids, so how can my advice be useful? My family didn't grow up with anything extravagant and some of the stuff you have seems a little odd. I stopped eating cereal because it is crap and expensive when I was a kid. As far as the grocery thing goes, there are immigrants who spend less money to feed more kids. They would balk at the fact that you would give a family member his own piece of chicken. Everything is a gravy with the meat in it, served on rice, with beans, or potatoes, or bread. Add some vegetables and you're done. In the summer, all of our vegetables were grown. You keep talking about fruit? That is some expensive stuff considering that a lot of it is imported. We had our own apple and peach trees, our own raspberry and blackberry bushes. Every year we canned tomatoes for the whole year (we being the entire family). We freeze all the fruit we can't eat and make pies. We buy peppers and fruit off the markdown rack to make roasted peppers and pies. We buy pork shoulder on sale and make sausages (the entire family) which can be frozen. We ate like kings and all the food we used to cook is Italian peasant food, now being sold to people at exorbitant prices in high end restaurants.

I cook cheaper tough cuts of meat in the smoker and then use the bones to make soup in the pressure cooker.The pressure cooker itself allows me to cook cheap tough cuts of meat with less electricity because of it's efficiency.

Beef shank or Ox tail dredged in flour, pan seared and then set to braise in a liquid of dollar store ground tomatoes, diced onion, diced carrot, garlic clove and soup stock I made from bones in the pressure cooker (frozen in freezer).

Put the whole thing in the pressure cooker and serve on a bed of polenta (corn meal) with swiss chard and white beans (buy the beans dry and soak them, not in cans).

Tastes fantastic, in a restaurant , they'd charge lots of money, but what would that really cost you?

If you think it takes a little longer to prepare some dishes, it does. Whip out the calculator and figure out the savings and think that if you went to work to get the money to buy different, more expensive foods, does that offset staying home and spending the same time or less cooking different?

[mietief]

Something doesn't sound right. You mentioned that you haven't cracked 50k yet... I'm assuming you're near it? And that also your wife makes more than you. So assuming that your household income is 80k that means your net income should be around $5500/mo. If you're spending a $1000 on food.. and lets say another $1500 on your other bills you should be left with $3000. How much is your mortgage payment? I'm thinking you may be house rich but cash poor. It's tough to give proper advice unless you give the full info.

[Sea]

Moving back to the city isnt like commuting from the suburbs into Toronto where most of the RFD community is based, My or my wifes commute time one way to work is 20 minutes right now living 7 miles out.

So if we moved back to the city, we would save maybe 10 minutes each in commute time both ways, since the major time is once we hit the city limits.

Plus when I looked at the local real estate city property taxs and utilities are way higher than what we pay now out here. It used to be the opposite, but not the same now. So while we may save on mortgage, we would lose that in utilities and taxes. So basically the costs are just in a different place, but not making any headway.


Looks like you compared owning to owning. What about selling the house and renting for a while? When you consider your mortgage, property tax, utilities + upkeep, how does that compare to a monthly rent payment? Would it make a significant difference in the cash flow issue?

[Spidey]

I know you mentioned you upgraded the insulation in your attic sometime in the past year to save on heating costs, and you have a cistern (sp?) and bring home your own water to save on those costs.

Do you have an automatic thermostat to reduce the temps when nobody is home during the day? We saved 10 to 20 percent of our heating costs with one.

Also, do you have CFLs installed in all the light fixtures in the house? We saved another 10-20 percent in electricity costs with those.


Just noticed you are ALSO making payments on a car as well. How much per month, and how many payments still oweing on this? If it's leased, break it, and get something used, cheap.

Anything savings related to home energy we have done to the max, besides upgrading the furnace, etc. All CFLs, programable thermostat, lights on timers, etc. Winter time we save money on natural gas my burning wood in our upstairs wood stove. I dont mind cutting firewood in the summer and the kids help out a lot. Whole household knows not to leave lights on, etc. Anything vampire related is on power bars as well.

Car payment of $300, its being questioned as well. Not leased, bought, and could go back to a 7 passenger cheap minivan. But this is our main family travel vehicle, so I dont want a POS that will leave us stranded either.

[Spidey]

Looks like you compared owning to owning. What about selling the house and renting for a while? When you consider your mortgage, property tax, utilities + upkeep, how does that compare to a monthly rent payment? Would it make a significant difference in the cash flow issue?

Any house we can fit in and rent, would basically equal a mortgage payment. Would save on property taxes true.

Im looking to fix the problem we have. Not do a whole lifestyle switch that will affect everyone for years because of braces. If this is the case I mgiht as well just rent, sell everything we have and start over.

Sometimes things arent just as easy as people make it sound. Can sell, sure. House wont sell over night, could take weeks or months. Whos knows with todays market.

We could move into an apartment as well right next to my work to, so I dont have to drive. We could move bacxk to SK and live in some small town where a house is super cheap to, but do we want to, no

But there has to be balance as well, Im all for making changes where we can, but to totally uproot the entire family for the sake of braces.

All comes down to some cut backs that many have mentioned, and me making some more money

[Spidey]

Something doesn't sound right. You mentioned that you haven't cracked 50k yet... I'm assuming you're near it? And that also your wife makes more than you. So assuming that your household income is 80k that means your net income should be around $5500/mo. If you're spending a $1000 on food.. and lets say another $1500 on your other bills you should be left with $3000. How much is your mortgage payment? I'm thinking you may be house rich but cash poor. It's tough to give proper advice unless you give the full info.

Ok, $1000 is high looking last night, buts its $750 for sure.

House payment is high, around $2000 a month with our extra payment we make. When we bought I went shorter term just to pay it off faster, but back then we had a great buffer zone to handle it. 3.5 years ago we had no problem affording what we have. And while we didnt waste money back then either, when something extra came up, we were able to handle it.

Lately though that buffer zone is gone, due to well everything increasing, gas, food, utilities.

Will we be able to handle it, well so far in life Ive been through alot, we have been through job loss before and made it, so Im sure we will with this as well. Will just take being creative.

Do I really have to give up beer though, say its not so. Not even my cheap $12 12 pack I buy once a month

[CSK'sMom]

We budget for every little expense as well. Welcome to the club. From what you describe, your quality of life seems fine. Just need to tighten up and bit, sounds like you want to save money but you aren't willing to actually do the hard work of cutting back. Well this is only $xx and we enjoy it, etc. Keep track of every expense, keep receipts. If you do a good job tracking its amazing all of the sub $20 purchases you can find that don't seem like a big deal at time but can add up to several hundred dollars in a month.

For the braces, I'm no expert and don't have experience with braces, however I have heard from some people that getting braces is no longer recommended ( except by orthodontists who obviously have an incentive to push braces ) until adulthood because your jaw is still growing. You could pay 8 G's for braces and when your kid is 21 their teeth are f'ed again because they moved as the jaw developed, wisdom teeth came in, etc. Case in point, my teeth were perfect until my wisdom teeth came in, then my bottom front teeth crowded a bit. This would have happened if I had braces earlier in life.

I just wanted to comment on this part for others. This is wrong. All kids are recommended to see an ortho at age 7. This is because there is more they can do while the jaw it still growing vs. after. A good ortho can manipulate the growth of the jaw to correct issues like overjet and underbite. It's why my kiddo went through 2 phases. Phase 1, starting at age 8 was lots of manipulating jaw growth. She had her arch expanded and upper jaw growth manipulated to slow it while increasing lower jaw growth. Jaw growth stops once puberty hits so it's easier and ultimately cheaper to deal with these kinds of structural issues before puberty. My kiddos 2nd phase started after puberty to correct the alignment issues as her teeth were 1 1/2 tooth widths off where they should have been....She just got her braces off last fall at age 15 1/2 so it was a long, long road for us that still may not be done. At this point we are told she still needs to be assessed at age 21 to decide if she will need her jaw broken to lengthen it even further. Moral of the story folks.... No thumbsucking allowed and break the habit before age 3!!!! If they are still sucking their thumbs at age 3, go to an ortho who can put an appliance in to break the habit before damage is done. ;)

[taylyn]

Ok, $1000 is high looking last night, buts its $750 for sure.

House payment is high, around $2000 a month with our extra payment we make. When we bought I went shorter term just to pay it off faster, but back then we had a great buffer zone to handle it. 3.5 years ago we had no problem affording what we have. And while we didnt waste money back then either, when something extra came up, we were able to handle it.

Lately though that buffer zone is gone, due to well everything increasing, gas, food, utilities.

Will we be able to handle it, well so far in life Ive been through alot, we have been through job loss before and made it, so Im sure we will with this as well. Will just take being creative.

Do I really have to give up beer though, say its not so. Not even my cheap $12 12 pack I buy once a month

You have your answer yourself. Revisit your mortgage. Sure it would be nice to have your home paid for earlier, but seriously do you really want to live this way until it is???? Stop makijng the extra payments (for now), and re-do your mortgage so not only are your monthly payments more affordable but you have back that cushion. You can make it up in later years.

You have already said you can't decrease your spending by much, so you have little options. Move to a significantly cheaper home, get a second job, get a better paying job, refinance your existing mortgage.

[ak-47]

Would it be possible to renegotiate your mortgage payment to $1500 from $2000 a month for a longer term/higher interest rate? That seems like its the easiest way to find that $300 a month for your son's braces without sacrificing your entire family's life style

[Spidey]

Admitting defeat is an overdramatic conclusion here. Sounds more like apathy about the situation.

Yesterday I was just having a bad day I think. The news of that and the shock of where the hell is this money coming from now. Im defintly better today after we talked last night about it

Simple, if painful solutions.

Cancel the Dish service. Get a used set of rabbit ears. Cancel Netflix. Spending $30 on satellite AND another $8 on Netflix a month is stupid. Set an educational and financial good example for your kids. $40 a month saved.
This is defintly being looked at. If the dish is gone and just keep Netflix. While the dish and PVR are cheap, the $30 a month can defintly go to somehwre else more useful. Netflix is getting more and more stuff everyday.

Cut your internet to a 'lite' high speed service. The kids get high speed access at school. All you need at home is light speed for internet and email. That should save another $10 to $20 a month. $10 a month saved.

Cant, the internet is what it is. We arent on ADSL or cable, we are on Xplornet. But I did call them last fall when are 3 year term was up and got them to knock off $15 a month for staying with them because there is more competition. Could we go without internet, well sure, but its a tool I use for not only my business, but work as well when I cant make it and work from home

Cut your grocery bill. Start growing all your vegetables and berries. From the 4? acres you have you should never need to buy Potatoes, Turnips, Peas, Carrotts, Rasperries, Strawberries, Pumpkin, Onions, Radishes, etc, etc. Start drinking less milk (but still enough to get your calcium and vit a/d, and drink more water. High metabolism is no excuse for such a high monthly bill for a family of 5. Start looking at everyone's caloric intake and see how much excess your family members are consuming each day. $100 a month per person should be MORE than enough food. $200 a month saved.

Already grow what we can. But rmember the things mentioned dont grow overnight, and alot cant be harvested until fall. Saying that we are still eating potatoes from last fall. Everythhing you mentioned are already planted, but as a family of 5 and bothj working, its not like we have the entire day to garden. Even with the kids helping, its not the same as when I was growing up on the farm and my parents only farmed. The garden was part of working the farm from home. In fact yesterday all our tomatoe plants went in. Milk wise the most times it drank is at meals, in between meals its water besides the occasional choclate milk here and there. Actually, unless you have a super high metabolism, you dont know the calorie intake you need. When we have BBQ burgers, Im eating 3 alone, and my other son 3 as well. And thats gone in a few hours. So yes we eat, and Im not going to start my kids to count calories. They eat, and not crap, they eat healthy foods, not sugar snacks. and I gurantee Im not going to be hungry so I consume less calories.

Get rid of the cell phones. Keep the phone at home, and use the phone at the office. 15 years ago we survived just fine without them. The phones will still work for 911 emergency service even if you end your normal provider service. $60 a month saved.

Where thinking this, but hard to do. I work out of town here and there, and if something comes up, how do I get contacted, My cell number has been linked to my busiess for 9 years and get calls on it from that, so if I cancel it how do clients get ahold of me. Plus with the running around of 3 kids, and 2 parents being in 2 places at different times, how do we get ahold of each other during those times. While it sucks, cellphones are almost needed today with the way life runs. I dont want to say that, Id rather be like the old days and say we lived without them then, but todays soceity is a different beast. And 3/4 of the time its not calls it txts, since during the day we cant really talk. If I could make it less I would, but we have the cheapest grandfathered plan available. We dont have data or anything, just txt and phone

Get rid of the trailer. Payments you can't afford, no matter how much fun camping is. You can still stay in a tent perfectly fine for the couple of trips a year. Making payments on an RV is one of the dumbest things you can ever do, since they depreciate 30% of their value in the first 3 years, 50% after 10. $200? a month saved.
Thats on the potential block to. As for the dumbest comment, thats your opinion. Everything depreciates, and we bought it used as is. So just becaise something depreciates over time should you never buy it? But its true it wouls save $200 a month, but we defintly arent going to give up camping as a family.

Since you already booked 5 tickets for the wedding (and you shouldn't have - at most just you and your wife should have gone) you need to find a family/friend to stay with in Halifax. Your family can't afford summer hotel/restaurant rates in the maratimes right now. $300 one time savings.
We talked about just us going, but my wife and I have been a lot of places just the 2 of us the last 5 years, due to mostly some contest wins. So to say to the kids, sorry you cant go to the wedding of someone that you basically treat as your aunt and uncle. These are our best friends, and a big part of our kids lives we well. In Halifax we are in a hotel, but used airmiles to pay for almsot all of it. And from another thread I have, we were going to drive to save money, but it turned out flying would be cheaper after all becayse we cut out 12 days of fuel, meals and hotels on the trip there and back Just curious though, do you have kids. While Im a fairly strict parent, sometimes you cant just do the thing you mentioned, just wouldnt be fair.

No more lottery tickets. None. No more Tim Hortons. None. No more wings and beer. None. Take that $20 'fun money' you have each week, and stick it in the account to pay for the braces. You can't afford frills, you said that yourself. Until you give up all these things, there is still money basically. $80 a month saved
Whil in theory, it sounds easy on paper, are you telling me you wouldnt ever go out with friends or family, ever in 2 years to save money if you got asked out to a meal or a special occasion. Im not talking every week, but evern once for twice a year, you would say no? My $20 fun money isnt every week, its every 2 weeks, so $40 a month. Theres a fine line between saving money and sanity. And the 6 timees a year I go out for wings and beer with friends, defintly saves my sanity. Thats $60 the entire year you save my telling your friends, no I m going to go home. I dont know where you get $80 a month saved?

Allowances? Sorry, no room in the budget for that. The kids can help contribute to the household chores. Any income they bring in on their own should be theirs to keep with your assistance in managing it.
Kids already said they will give up their allowance, and they pick bottles, etc on walks to make extra money. Chores, my kids do more chores in a week than any city kid would do in an entire month.

You need to consider a different employer and possibly a different career. It's great that you love your job, but if it barely puts food on the table for your family, you need to swallow your pride and do something you may not like for a while to help ends meet better. You haven't even mentioned what you do for a living. DJ work after hours doesn't sound like it would bring in a big salary either.
I dont want a differnet carerr, Im in IT, and I like it. As for a differnet employer, IT related jobs arent all over the place down here. and I never said it barely put food on the table, you did. Im saying with the rising cost of everything and the extra burden of $300 a month coming up is where the issue is. Never once in my life have we not had food, or had the bill collector banging on the door.

BOTH you and your wife need to get a second job. Part time 5-10 hours a week. Even at $10 an hour, you will pull in a minimum of $300 more a month working a single 5 hour shift on a weekend each. Raises aren't an option as you eluded, so a second income is the next logical step. $300 a month extra income.
If anyone does, it will be me. I have more time freedom than she does, plus Im the one thats making the lower income, just make sense

Fixing computers as a side business was fine and dandy a decade or so ago, but now it's just wasted time. Nobody is going to spend hundreds of dollars to fix a computer when they can buy a brand new one for the same amount. Stop wasting time and effort trying to promote a failed garage workbench industry and get a real second income. You can bring in more income with next to no effort at a part time job elsewhere.
Well this wasted time has made me 101K the last 9 years, so pretty hard to just say screw it and quit. And my clients dont spend hundred of dollars, I have low rates, your just assuming I charge b$100 an hour to fix a computer. I have regular clients, it just goes in spurts. Summer tiime is harder as people dont use their machines as much as the fall and winter. So the slump for that is coming


So there you have it. Cutting hard to the bone and following just the items I listed here should put an extra $1000 on the table PER MONTH. Suddenly $5000 for braces isn't so scary.

The real issue is making these hard choices, and sticking to them.
Alot of your ideas are good, but some just wont work as I mentioedn above. a person can save a ton of money by always going home and never going out, well ever. How is that for your social well being and sanity. There has to be a medium somewhere..

[Spidey]

Pretty much sums up what I was thinking. Now lets get the fact out in the open that I am not married with kids, so how can my advice be useful? My family didn't grow up with anything extravagant and some of the stuff you have seems a little odd. I stopped eating cereal because it is crap and expensive when I was a kid. As far as the grocery thing goes, there are immigrants who spend less money to feed more kids. They would balk at the fact that you would give a family member his own piece of chicken. Everything is a gravy with the meat in it, served on rice, with beans, or potatoes, or bread. Add some vegetables and you're done. In the summer, all of our vegetables were grown. You keep talking about fruit? That is some expensive stuff considering that a lot of it is imported. We had our own apple and peach trees, our own raspberry and blackberry bushes. Every year we canned tomatoes for the whole year (we being the entire family). We freeze all the fruit we can't eat and make pies. We buy peppers and fruit off the markdown rack to make roasted peppers and pies. We buy pork shoulder on sale and make sausages (the entire family) which can be frozen. We ate like kings and all the food we used to cook is Italian peasant food, now being sold to people at exorbitant prices in high end restaurants.

I cook cheaper tough cuts of meat in the smoker and then use the bones to make soup in the pressure cooker.The pressure cooker itself allows me to cook cheap tough cuts of meat with less electricity because of it's efficiency.

Beef shank or Ox tail dredged in flour, pan seared and then set to braise in a liquid of dollar store ground tomatoes, diced onion, diced carrot, garlic clove and soup stock I made from bones in the pressure cooker (frozen in freezer).

Put the whole thing in the pressure cooker and serve on a bed of polenta (corn meal) with swiss chard and white beans (buy the beans dry and soak them, not in cans).

Tastes fantastic, in a restaurant , they'd charge lots of money, but what would that really cost you?

If you think it takes a little longer to prepare some dishes, it does. Whip out the calculator and figure out the savings and think that if you went to work to get the money to buy different, more expensive foods, does that offset staying home and spending the same time or less cooking different?

Sounds exactly what we do. We cut alot of our own meat, can get it free or cheap from friends or family from hunting season. My wife knows how to make great meals on the cheap. we arent eating steak and lobster nightly

Have our own apple trees, althoufh crab apples. When they are to be pciked we dont buy apples, but even if we planted they dont mature overnight. They take years to get to that stage

My no means are we regular restaurant people.

[Spidey]

You have your answer yourself. Revisit your mortgage. Sure it would be nice to have your home paid for earlier, but seriously do you really want to live this way until it is???? Stop makijng the extra payments (for now), and re-do your mortgage so not only are your monthly payments more affordable but you have back that cushion. You can make it up in later years.

You have already said you can't decrease your spending by much, so you have little options. Move to a significantly cheaper home, get a second job, get a better paying job, refinance your existing mortgage.

Cant re-do our mortgage for another 1.5 years, fall of 2012 We are stuck with the decision we made. Ive been to many places like the CIBC that had the cash back option fior mortgages moved to them, but we have to much of our term left to do anything. This fall we will strat looking again with only a year left.

I know the only way is to make more money. Made an extra $90 last night and will be makig $60 tonight from some computer repair. I just need to get my name out there again.

[Spidey]

Would it be possible to renegotiate your mortgage payment to $1500 from $2000 a month for a longer term/higher interest rate? That seems like its the easiest way to find that $300 a month for your son's braces without sacrificing your entire family's life style

Cant until the fall.

Got our home energy rebates yesterday so have an extra $500 now after paying for all the things done. So thats a down payment at least

I talked to someone that went to this same person who was going to charge them 7K and got it done at another place for 5400, it was just 2.5 hours away

SO im defintly going to ask for a price match if anything.

It boils down to this, yesterday was a ****** day, I took the news hard and jsut had blinders on about the situation. I havent found out my benefits situation yet, and just when you hear $7000 that you werent expecting, well Im sure Im not the only that goes "oh thats just great"

Stepping back with some sacrifices like mentioned about (but not all of them) and myself concentrating more on my side business, we should be fine. Should, not will. Wont know until it starts happening.

Thanks for all the tips, some where new and someare ones we have been doing for a long time already

[Lone_Prodigy]

You say you don't want a complete lifestyle change just for braces, but what if another large cost happens? What if another of your kids needs braces? You mentioned a "buffer zone", money saved for a rainy day. You don't have that anymore. I'm not saying anything will happen (touch wood), but you don't seem to have the resources necessary should something occur.

Getting in touch with each other can be done without cellphones. 20 years ago we had pay phones on almost every corner. Nowadays everyone has a cellphone; borrow a friend's, or even a stranger's. Schools have phones too.

I have a prepaid phone plan: $100 a year. Texts are $0.15 and it's $0.39 a minute ($0.01 evenings/weekends), but less than $9 a month is cheaper than any monthly plan. Even without text/calls, there's email/MSN, and a work/home phone.

[1maybe2]

For saving monthly cost, I would suggest almost everything people are saying. I am a low income family too and I do NOT have cable, Netflix, homephone, etc etc. What we did was we did hulu as ppl recommended and we have a OTA, which was a one time $50 and I have free tv for 2 years now! For food and stuff, I cook a crap load of whole grains. I make plain rice ( not uncle ben) and I use it as a base for EVERYTHING ( chilli, pasta sauce, chicken noodle soup but replaced with rice, etc), plain oats, mixed with barley and rice. It keeps my family full and its good for us. As people have mentioned already, some foods have got to go, meat and fruit are expensive and instead of getting full on it, I use it as a side.

Now in regards to the braces, I grew up from a family of poverty. I was so poor my parents didn’t buy us toothpaste or tooth brush, we had to wash our mouth with soap and water. I had been to the dentist once in my childhood because both my cheek had swell up so much I couldn’t eat. (even then as a child, I was so afraid to ask my parents to go to the dentist because I KNEW we couldn’t afford it) and I had two teeth that had to be taken out ASAP as it was rotted, causing the swelling. The dentist also said I needed braces as I had an over bite and it will give me headaches and jaw pains from biting the wrong muscles instead of gum. I was 10 at the time – my parents asked the dentist to reduce the swelling and got me out of there. No rotten teeth taken out. No braces. They couldnt afford it period. They would have to wait until my teeth got so bad that eventually it became medically necessary and OHIP covered it as it was done in the hospital.

I’m not sure how bad your child’s teeth are but can the braces wait a bit? Even waiting for a year until you can lessen the financial burden could be helpful.

[Spidey]

You say you don't want a complete lifestyle change just for braces, but what if another large cost happens? What if another of your kids needs braces? You mentioned a "buffer zone", money saved for a rainy day. You don't have that anymore. I'm not saying anything will happen (touch wood), but you don't seem to have the resources necessary should something occur.

Getting in touch with each other can be done without cellphones. 20 years ago we had pay phones on almost every corner. Nowadays everyone has a cellphone; borrow a friend's, or even a stranger's. Schools have phones too.

I have a prepaid phone plan: $100 a year. Texts are $0.15 and it's $0.39 a minute ($0.01 evenings/weekends), but less than $9 a month is cheaper than any monthly plan. Even without text/calls, there's email/MSN, and a work/home phone.

You know what, you cant plan for everything in life, you just cant. You cant plan for when you loss your job, sure you can have an account saved for it, but for how long, 3 months, 6 months, a year.

You cant plan for illness, for an accident, for a divorce, etc. You have to have a middle ground. We budget for everything, including an emergency fund of $1000 for the what-ifs. But what big of a what-if do you plan for, $1000, $5000, $10000.

Cell phones, oh how I hate them. If I could, Id get rid of them. But I'm 38 years old, I'm not going to be constantly asking strangers to borrow their phones. 20 years ago thats right there were pay phones, not so much now it seems. And there aren't many pay phones in the middle of nowhere when your out with your kids. Many things I'm part of with my kids we aren't near anything.

You mention email/msn, isn't it harder to have computer access than phone access. What am I supposed to do go to a local convenience store to email my wife. And how would she get it anyway when shes not at work or home?

Can we not use our cellphones, its doable. But I would lose out on business calls with that. Plus without them we would be paying more on gas due to missed pickups, backtracking etc

So in theory, yep there moneys saved on the cellphone, but extra paid on gas because someone couldn't get a hold of you to pick someone up because an emergency came up, so you have to go back and get him or her

Last night it saved me from a 40 minute drive because I was at baseball and got a text from my wife to pick something up needed for today. If I didnt get that text I or her would of had to drive back and get it, wasting gas.

Now if we had full blown Iphones with a data plan, I could see it, but we both have basic free phones, and its a cost up front, but saves time and money in the long run as well

[Spidey]

For saving monthly cost, I would suggest almost everything people are saying. I am a low income family too and I do NOT have cable, Netflix, homephone, etc etc. What we did was we did hulu as ppl recommended and we have a OTA, which was a one time $50 and I have free tv for 2 years now! For food and stuff, I cook a crap load of whole grains. I make plain rice ( not uncle ben) and I use it as a base for EVERYTHING ( chilli, pasta sauce, chicken noodle soup but replaced with rice, etc), plain oats, mixed with barley and rice. It keeps my family full and its good for us. As people have mentioned already, some foods have got to go, meat and fruit are expensive and instead of getting full on it, I use it as a side.

Now in regards to the braces, I grew up from a family of poverty. I was so poor my parents didn’t buy us toothpaste or tooth brush, we had to wash our mouth with soap and water. I had been to the dentist once in my childhood because both my cheek had swell up so much I couldn’t eat. (even then as a child, I was so afraid to ask my parents to go to the dentist because I KNEW we couldn’t afford it) and I had two teeth that had to be taken out ASAP as it was rotted, causing the swelling. The dentist also said I needed braces as I had an over bite and it will give me headaches and jaw pains from biting the wrong muscles instead of gum. I was 10 at the time – my parents asked the dentist to reduce the swelling and got me out of there. No rotten teeth taken out. No braces. They couldnt afford it period. They would have to wait until my teeth got so bad that eventually it became medically necessary and OHIP covered it as it was done in the hospital.

I’m not sure how bad your child’s teeth are but can the braces wait a bit? Even waiting for a year until you can lessen the financial burden could be helpful.

Trust me I know about poverty. I didnt have running water or an inside toilet until I was 8 years old. I defintly didnt come from money.

My parents couldnt afford the dentist either, back then they had dentists that came to the schools for low income families and get work done there.

This Hulu thing has got me curious. Defintly going to look into it. What OTA though?

Food wise, I tink a lot of peopel think we just eat high organix expensive food all the time. Fruit is used as a snack or a side, or at breakfast. But its a healthy snack, what else is good to have in the house with kids that they can eat when they are hungry. As for meat, we arent vegetarians, and we get meat as cheap as possible as it is.

[TrevorK]

Im defintly going to push more for increasing my income.


I might have missed it - but what about the thought of adjusting your mortgage to reduce your expenses/withdraw equity?

[Spidey]

I might have missed it - but what about the thought of adjusting your mortgage to reduce your expenses/withdraw equity?

hate to say, Im old school. Having a home equity loan just isnt a good idea in my eyes. I know alot say its there for emerencies, etc. Just not the way I roll.

We got caught up in this when we first got married and had a LOC and abused it with home renos and it took us a few years to get back from that.

While we are older and know better now, just the temptation is there that you can just say instead of making things work, just use the HELOC

I know it sounds backwards since we have 2 payments besides our mortgage, just not the way I do things

[1maybe2]

Trust me I know about poverty. I didnt have running water or an inside toilet until I was 8 years old. I defintly didnt come from money.

My parents couldnt afford the dentist either, back then they had dentists that came to the schools for low income families and get work done there.

This Hulu thing has got me curious. Defintly going to look into it. What OTA though?

Food wise, I tink a lot of peopel think we just eat high organix expensive food all the time. Fruit is used as a snack or a side, or at breakfast. But its a healthy snack, what else is good to have in the house with kids that they can eat when they are hungry. As for meat, we arent vegetarians, and we get meat as cheap as possible as it is.

OTA = Over the Air antenna. Just point it to a window, plug in your tv, and voila, TV! It even has some HD channels! No fancy set up required unless you want to set it up high in the sky for better/more reception.

[jamesfitzgibbon]

I feel your pain, buddy.

I'm close to giving up on everything.

[Spidey]

OTA = Over the Air antenna. Just point it to a window, plug in your tv, and voila, TV! It even has some HD channels! No fancy set up required unless you want to set it up high in the sky for better/more reception.

Oh I know how those work. Antenna or coat hanger. Used to do that when we lived in Manitba and coild pick up stations from the states

You do realize I dont live in TO right, not quite the same selection you have. :lol:

[Spidey]

I feel your pain, buddy.

I'm close to giving up on everything.

Im defintly better today. Yesterday was just me seeing the bad side of everything.

[jamesfitzgibbon]

Im defintly better today. Yesterday was just me seeing the bad side of everything.

well I hope I feel that way soon too

[Blvck_Scvle]

This might sound harsh but unfortunately, someone has to say it.

The biggest problem I've noticed from reading this thread is that you don't seem to know how bad your problem is.

When you're trying to budget for a child's braces and you can't even commit to cutting lottery tickets entirely out of your budget, you've got a problem. I don't care what you say about lottery tickets, you're going to be fighting a losing battle if you try to convince me that they are a winning proposition over the long-term. If you're up over your lifetime on them now, pat yourself on the back and give it up while you're still ahead.

If you can't eat less because you "don't want to go hungry", too bad. Suck it up. 3 burgers every time you BBQ? That's a bit over the top.

There are plenty of great tips in this thread and even a person like myself who says that money isn't the end all be all of life and that it's important to live your life ... even with that being my stance on things, I can see that you have a big problem admitting that there is a problem. And that needs to end.

[Pyro]

have you tried couponing? combining sales + coupons to get things for crazy cheap/free. might sound stupid but it sounds like you need help on your basic necessaities since you cut out most luxeries already

my gf just started couponing hard and so far:

gilette body wash @ $1 vs $3-4
Dove Bar Soap for free
ocean spray cranberry juice for free (lots of 1L bottles)
minute maid orange juice 1.89 L @ $1
addidas deoderant @ 25 cents or so
free shampoo and lotion (travel size bottles but when you take alot lol)
this week i can get the stouffer's frozen dinners (good for at least 2 people) @ $3 each. these arn't TV dinners either - can't compain about $1.50 per person for a meal of pasta, chicken, and veggies like carrots and broccoli.

we're saving lots of cash on stuff our families will use anyways, so what if we hoard - even if i hoard alot of stuff for free i dont need, i can give it to charities

the trick is to take coupons from stores and wait for a good sale at another store. the store that has the coupon never has a good sale, doesnt mean you cant take the coupon and use it somewhere else

there's also lots of sites like brandsaver and save.ca to order coupons, order them all and only use the ones on sale items

go to the Sm@rt Canucks forums, you'll see how people are getting alot of groceries for insanely cheap, and you can follow what they do to score similar deals

[Blvck_Scvle]

And let me just follow up and say it's nothing personal, either. I'm just trying to point out that I've noticed that almost every suggestion directed your way, you've said "no, that just won't work and here's why."

At some point, you're going to have to make it work. If you can't enjoy your life because of it, unfortunately for you that's just the way it is because to get to the point you're at now, you've obviously mismanaged at some point in time during your life and I guess now it might be time to pay for it. I wish you the best of luck though.

[Spidey]

This might sound harsh but unfortunately, someone has to say it.

The biggest problem I've noticed from reading this thread is that you don't seem to know how bad your problem is.

When you're trying to budget for a child's braces and you can't even commit to cutting lottery tickets entirely out of your budget, you've got a problem. I don't care what you say about lottery tickets, you're going to be fighting a losing battle if you try to convince me that they are a winning proposition over the long-term. If you're up over your lifetime on them now, pat yourself on the back and give it up while you're still ahead.

If you can't eat less because you "don't want to go hungry", too bad. Suck it up. 3 burgers every time you BBQ? That's a bit over the top.

There are plenty of great tips in this thread and even a person like myself who says that money isn't the end all be all of life and that it's important to live your life ... even with that being my stance on things, I can see that you have a big problem admitting that there is a problem. And that needs to end.

Who says I havent? Today I usualy get one (lotto ticket) I didnt. Its a cost being cut since I heard the news. Lot of assuming there.

And actually if you look at my list of wins, my track record proves its not a losing proposition, Im out ahead, alot. But since its not a 100% guarantee, its being cut until I can afford otherwise

Whos says Im not going to use any of the tips in this thread. I have said above I will be doing some, or already do some as it is.

You say 3 burgers is over the top, maybe it is for you. For others its not, tell that to the young people that eat and eat and eat and dont gain a pounbd.

What problem am I not admitting, that I dont have enough money? What part did I miss, or am I misunderstanding what you said.

I can cut back, and I have so. Ive gone weeks without spending actual cash money (besides the cost of living like utilities, etc)

Ive pointed out many times its myself that has to make more money. This may be the kick in the butt I needed to push my side business more and make that extra $500 we need, or even more

[taylyn]

And let me just follow up and say it's nothing personal, either. I'm just trying to point out that I've noticed that almost every suggestion directed your way, you've said "no, that just won't work and here's why."

At some point, you're going to have to make it work. If you can't enjoy your life because of it, unfortunately for you that's just the way it is because to get to the point you're at now, you've obviously mismanaged at some point in time during your life and I guess now it might be time to pay for it. I wish you the best of luck though.

I have to agree - there are some great suggestions here, and you have essentially dismissed all them but looking into HULU. You have a serious financial situation in front of you and living life loks pretty bleak, and without some changes to your attitude about it, your kids are not going to get the dental treatment they likely need. You do what you have to do, and I think a reality check and a hard impersoanl look of where you are is in order. You DO have the money to reallocate, you are just unwilling to look at this as a viable option.

You received advice about your side business, that is a low chance of being successful as a secondary income. You received advice about your mortgage. You received tips on cost-cutting.

I wish you all the best in figuring this out.

[Spidey]

And let me just follow up and say it's nothing personal, either. I'm just trying to point out that I've noticed that almost every suggestion directed your way, you've said "no, that just won't work and here's why."

At some point, you're going to have to make it work. If you can't enjoy your life because of it, unfortunately for you that's just the way it is because to get to the point you're at now, you've obviously mismanaged at some point in time during your life and I guess now it might be time to pay for it. I wish you the best of luck though.

I never said Im not going to go any of the suggestions, Im just not going to do them all. I know whats needed and whats not. And I know what can be trimmed that wouldnt cause a huge huge change in lifestyle (like moving, not an option Im willing to do)

But as an example, the $60-$80 on average per YEAR (not month) I spend on beer and wings with the guys, isnt going to change. Its part of getting out, being social and keeping bonds with your friends. That has paybacks in less stress, etc. Which is money well spent

Now if it was $60-$80 a month, then ya, I could see that as a huge debt.

[Spidey]

have you tried couponing? combining sales + coupons to get things for crazy cheap/free. might sound stupid but it sounds like you need help on your basic necessaities since you cut out most luxeries already

my gf just started couponing hard and so far:

gilette body wash @ $1 vs $3-4
Dove Bar Soap for free
ocean spray cranberry juice for free (lots of 1L bottles)
minute maid orange juice 1.89 L @ $1
addidas deoderant @ 25 cents or so
free shampoo and lotion (travel size bottles but when you take alot lol)
this week i can get the stouffer's frozen dinners (good for at least 2 people) @ $3 each. these arn't TV dinners either - can't compain about $1.50 per person for a meal of pasta, chicken, and veggies like carrots and broccoli.

we're saving lots of cash on stuff our families will use anyways, so what if we hoard - even if i hoard alot of stuff for free i dont need, i can give it to charities

the trick is to take coupons from stores and wait for a good sale at another store. the store that has the coupon never has a good sale, doesnt mean you cant take the coupon and use it somewhere else

there's also lots of sites like brandsaver and save.ca to order coupons, order them all and only use the ones on sale items

go to the Sm@rt Canucks forums, you'll see how people are getting alot of groceries for insanely cheap, and you can follow what they do to score similar deals

Do it all the time, anythign free on here I get. Been doing it for years. Plus we use superbucks when we get them from filling up with gas, that can be used for groceries.

If theres a way to get food cheaper, we do it, trust me

[Spidey]

I have to agree - there are some great suggestions here, and you have essentially dismissed all them but looking into HULU. You have a serious financial situation in front of you and living life loks pretty bleak, and without some changes to your attitude about it, your kids are not going to get the dental treatment they likely need. You do what you have to do, and I think a reality check and a hard impersoanl look of where you are is in order. You DO have the money to reallocate, you are just unwilling to look at this as a viable option.

You received advice about your side business, that is a low chance of being successful as a secondary income. You received advice about your mortgage. You received tips on cost-cutting.

I wish you all the best in figuring this out.

Whoa whoa, were have I said Im not doing any of them? I have even wrote that I do many already and that some will be used as well.

Ive read a lot of tips, Im just not going to use them all. And some tips I already do. Someone gave me advice on my supposdly crappy side business, yet no one replied to when I put that Ive made 101K, thats 101,000 over 9 years. Not 10,000 but 100,000.

No one here has even mentioned of selling stuff on Kijiji. Well I do still do, in fact sold something small today for $10 which will go to something. Anything I sell goes into an account as well, I just dont use it to go blow on candy or magic beans

From the sounds of it you sound like a dentist trying to make a parent feel bad about dental stuff. Im getting a second opion, is that wrong. I never said we arent doing it, I said I want a second opinion to see if its neccessary, or if there is another cheaper way to do it

I dont get what my attitude should be? Ive accepted the help and tips people have posted and started making changes today.

Or should me attitude just be apathetic and just follow every ones ideas to a T, without any feedback of my own

[Pyro]

Do it all the time, anythign free on here I get. Been doing it for years. Plus we use superbucks when we get them from filling up with gas, that can be used for groceries.

If theres a way to get food cheaper, we do it, trust me

well like other people said, your food bill is pretty damn high and thats for normal people too
i dont know if you're couponing hard enough then...no offense but you are getting alot of stuff on the cheap/free and your bill is STILL that high??

and i have to strongly disagree against you not utilizing your home equity - money is used to live your life, and as long as you dont use it foolishly, you SHOULD be using it. right now you have a large life expense you need to pay for. trust me im all for not having debt, but if you dont know how you're going to pay for your expense, how can you sit there and tell all of us "i cant pay for it, but i wont pay for it this way"...if you're financially disciplined as you are describing yourself right now, you should be able to handle it.

dont take it personally, but reading over this thread you're shooting down alot of great ideas 'because you dont want to'. even thinking your family should eat 15-20 burgers in one meal.....there's a difference between not going hungry and eating excessively.

[Spidey]

well like other people said, your food bill is pretty damn high and thats for normal people too
i dont know if you're couponing hard enough then...no offense but you are getting alot of stuff on the cheap/free and your bill is STILL that high??

and i have to strongly disagree against you not utilizing your home equity - money is used to live your life, and as long as you dont use it foolishly, you SHOULD be using it. right now you have a large life expense you need to pay for. trust me im all for not having debt, but if you dont know how you're going to pay for your expense, how can you sit there and tell all of us "i cant pay for it, but i wont pay for it this way"...if you're financially disciplined as you are describing yourself right now, you should be able to handle it.

dont take it personally, but reading over this thread you're shooting down alot of great ideas 'because you dont want to'. even thinking your family should eat 15-20 burgers in one meal.....there's a difference between not going hungry and eating excessively.

Man I wish I never put $1000. I rounded up and thoughts that it was, buts it not. My wife budgets $600 a month for groceries, but she does go pick up staples here and there in between.

BUT ITS NOT $1000!!!!!!!! I should edit my original post

Now saying $750, is that too high for a family of 5 a month, because thats more or less the cost from the CC receipts.

Im shooting down some ideas, not all. Theres no way I can do every idea posted in this thread, I have to pick whats do-able and reasonable to the way we live

Ive mentioned that we get meat cheap or free, just sweat equity. No mention at all that that is a good thing to do. Just pushing the fact that other things are higher

If I followed every idea on here Id be down to no car, renting and living on water and noodles for 5 years and for my kids to not eat because they dont beleive people can have high metebolisms

Come on people, everyones lifestyles are different. But from all that posted, please mention if you have kids or not. Not all of us live in downtown TO either.

As for the burgers, I never said my family eats 20 burgers a meal, I said I eat 3. And thats not every time, it depends on what I was doing that day.

but i will say this. I WILL NOT GO HUNGRY. Im an active person, I excercise, I work hard, etc. I eat to feed that.

Meals on the farm growing up was huge, why, because we burned it off in the field all day. On the weekend expecially in the summer my bodys in constand burn mode. If I dont eat, I get dizzy and dont feel good. So Im supposed to ignore my body and not eat.

[jamesfitzgibbon]

please mention if you have kids or not. Not all of us live in downtown TO.

3 kids - one with special dietary needs - live in Downtown TO.

[Spidey]

3 kids - one with special dietary needs - live in Downtown TO.

Then you know how expensive it is to eat. Expecially with special dietary needs.

ok, Ill turn the table a bit, please tell me what a food budget should be for a family of 5. Obviosuly by the sounds of it even $600 is too much

[Pyro]

Man I wish I never put $1000. I rounded up and thoughts that it was, buts it not. My wife budgets $600 a month for groceries, but she does go pick up staples here and there in between.

BUT ITS NOT $1000!!!!!!!! I should edit my original post

Now saying $750, is that too high for a family of 5 a month, because thats more or less the cost from the CC receipts.

Im shooting down some ideas, not all. Theres no way I can do every idea posted in this thread, I have to pick whats do-able and reasonable to the way we live

If I followed every idea on here Id be down to no car, renting and living on water and noodles for 5 years and for my kids to not eat because they dont beleive people can have high metebolisms

Come on people, everyones lifestyles are different. But from all that posted, please mention if you have kids or not. Not all of us live in downtown TO.

ok $750 for 5 people is pretty reasonable actually, sorry i missed that. i didn't read the whole thread
i agree with you that its pretty dumb to cut some stuff out.....$100 on timmies isn't really going to be missed

but you really should look into where you can draw cash from (ie your house)

in your computer repair business - do you do data recovery?
theres some software you can buy to do it, and if you charge a decent amount of recover data (irreplaceable memories) vs simple repair (which people could choose to just buy a new computer instead) then maybe you can help your side business out

if you're really down to the bone as you've described imo you gotta take money if you need to (ie loan or house equity) or make more money (second job, work more in your computer business etc)

[Spidey]

ok $750 for 5 people is pretty reasonable actually, sorry i missed that. i didn't read the whole thread
i agree with you that its pretty dumb to cut some stuff out.....$100 on timmies isn't really going to be missed

but you really should look into where you can draw cash from (ie your house)

in your computer repair business - do you do data recovery?
theres some software you can buy to do it, and if you charge a decent amount of recover data (irreplaceable memories) vs simple repair (which people could choose to just buy a new computer instead) then maybe you can help your side business out

if you're really down to the bone as you've described imo you gotta take money if you need to (ie loan or house equity) or make more money (second job, work more in your computer business etc)

I bet we dont even spend $100 a year on Timmies. I bet I have maybe one French Vanilla every 6 weeks give or take. Like many to save money, I have a cup at home of instant coffee, thats it

We know how to cut corners, I said in my first post we do all we can to do so. Just now we have to do so even more

It just comes down to making some more money and cutting back on something like the dish and replace with Hulu, see how that works. Im game for free tv as well.

Im more or less mobile computer repair. I made 22K one year from it buit I was working part time and could get my name ou there more.

I think with that and some cut backs we will be fine. Will have to be, but I know for a fact Im not making my kids go hungry each meal just to save $100 a month. Ill make that up somewhere else if I have to.

[Blvck_Scvle]

Then you know how expensive it is to eat. Expecially with special dietary needs.

ok, Ill turn the table a bit, please tell me what a food budget should be for a family of 5. Obviosuly by the sounds of it even $600 is too much

I don't know what the food budget should be, but I can tell you that if your food budget includes meals where you gorge on a half dozen hamburgers between you and your kid, it's probably the FIRST place you need to start cutting dollars.

You don't want to cut your food budget because you're hungry. Great, I get that. But condition yourself to eat less. Have a higher water intake. It's pretty simple, but I know that if your one example is 6 burgers for two people and you apply the same attitude to the rest of your meals, you definitely have room to cut some of your food intake. Point blank period. There's a difference between not wanting to and not being able to and your attitude in this whole thread has a lot of "not wanting to" and not a whole lot of "not being able to".

[CSK'sMom]

Spidey, just a caution from experience here... By all means get a 2nd opinion, preferably free. But do take into account that ortho treatment requires office visits every 4,6 or 8 weeks. With the price of gas, to an ortho 2 hrs away, it may not actually end up being cheaper in the long run. And that isn't taking into account emergency appt's because a bracket came off, a wire came out and you can't get it back in, etc. Just throwing that out.... :)

[Spidey]

Spidey, just a caution from experience here... By all means get a 2nd opinion, preferably free. But do take into account that ortho treatment requires office visits every 4,6 or 8 weeks. With the price of gas, to an ortho 2 hrs away, it may not actually end up being cheaper in the long run. And that isn't taking into account emergency appt's because a bracket came off, a wire came out and you can't get it back in, etc. Just throwing that out.... :)

Im not going to deny my kids braces if he needs them. many on here are thinking that for some reason. Of course we will do whats needed if he needs them

but i want that from more than one person saying it. Ive never trusted dentists since Ive had one say I had 4 cavities and then I went for a second opinion and he said I had none. Every since that Ive just seen them as greedy. If one can do it for 7000 and the other one can do it for 5400, that doesnt add up to me.

But if the second opinion says yes, then for sure he will get them. but if the second opinion gives me a cheaper solution, like a retainer or whatever they cna use, then Ill go that route.

I do agree with the trips thing, and with a 4 hour round trip eahc time, that original $1500 saved would be eaten up pretty fast with gas and time.

[Spidey]

I don't know what the food budget should be, but I can tell you that if your food budget includes meals where you gorge on a half dozen hamburgers between you and your kid, it's probably the FIRST place you need to start cutting dollars.

You don't want to cut your food budget because you're hungry. Great, I get that. But condition yourself to eat less. Have a higher water intake. It's pretty simple, but I know that if your one example is 6 burgers for two people and you apply the same attitude to the rest of your meals, you definitely have room to cut some of your food intake. Point blank period. There's a difference between not wanting to and not being able to and your attitude in this whole thread has a lot of "not wanting to" and not a whole lot of "not being able to".

so if my 14 year old son who has helped me all day in the garden wants to eat another burger, Im supposed to deny him that? If Im hungry after working in the yard today and i was denied a second helping because someone thought I didnt need it, you think I would be happy, and not hungry.

Plus, whats wrong with eating good at a sumemr meal. We dont have a BBQ everyday, burgers are had maybe once a month if that. All depends if there was a sale on them or something.

So your saying youve never gorged on anything before, on your favorite food?

Im sorry you dont understand people that have high metabolims. I do alot during the day to stop it. Ive got a watter bottle at my desk, I eat regular snacks so I dont go home hungry, things like that

But I cant deny my body when its hungry. Should I stop excercing just so I dont burn off more calories?

Ill cut alot of things, but I will not deny my kids food if they are hungry.

Have you ever sat at a lunch room table of people that do a lot of physical activity in their jobs. The amount of food consumed on the farm growing up was massive when we were out all day doing whatever. Why was there so much, because it was burned off that afternoon.

Please mention, do you have kids?

[Blvck_Scvle]

so if my 14 year old son who has helped me all day in the garden wants to eat another burger, Im supposed to deny him that? If Im hungry after working in the yard today and i was denied a second helping because someone thought I didnt need it, you think I would be happy, and not hungry.

Plus, whats wrong with eating good at a sumemr meal. We dont have a BBQ everyday, burgers are had maybe once a month if that. All depends if there was a sale on them or something.

So your saying youve never gorged on anything before, on your favorite food?

Im sorry you dont understand people that have high metabolims. I do alot during the day to stop it. Ive got a watter bottle at my desk, I eat regular snacks so I dont go home hungry, things like that

But I cant deny my body when its hungry. Should I stop excercing just so I dont burn off more calories?

Ill cut alot of things, but I will not deny my kids food if they are hungry.

Have you ever sat at a lunch room table of people that do a lot of physical activity in their jobs. The amount of food consumed on the farm growing up was massive when we were out all day doing whatever. Why was there so much, because it was burned off that afternoon.

Please mention, do you have kids?

I don't want to get real straight forward and blunt real fast, but I will if these types of responses continue from you. Like you've admitted, you need to change something. If you don't want to give up lotto tickets, give up your kid's extra hamburger. If you don't want to give up TV or the ice cream once every two weeks, say goodbye to family BBQ days every third weekend. If you don't want to give up your trailer, sayonara to brews with the boys.

OR

Get a second job and not some two bit DJ gig or basement computer repair work. A real one. You seem to be a healthy eating, in shape individual from all your comments. Get a construction job on weekends or after your regular job.

Problem solved.

[Spidey]

I don't want to get real straight forward and blunt real fast, but I will if these types of responses continue from you. Like you've admitted, you need to change something. If you don't want to give up lotto tickets, give up your kid's extra hamburger. If you don't want to give up TV or the ice cream once every two weeks, say goodbye to family BBQ days every third weekend. If you don't want to give up your trailer, sayonara to brews with the boys.

OR

Get a second job and not some two bit DJ gig or basement computer repair work. A real one. You seem to be a healthy eating, in shape individual from all your comments. Get a construction job on weekends or after your regular job.

Problem solved.

Ive already admitted numerous times Im going to be making more money. Maybe Ill do that just so I dont go hungry.

But you know what, I have gone hungry. When we had our first born and just starting out, it was in between formula for him or food for us, guess what won out. We have both been there, going hungry and theres no food in the house.

Well Im not doing that, Ill go without power before I go without food. there will always be food in the fridge for my kids, no matter what. My parents didnt have much growing up, and even if it was from the garden or hunting, we had food in the house, We didnt have indoor plumbing, but we had food.

I consider my side business a real second job, one that allows me to make money when I want and can. It allows me to be be able to be flexible with my schedule so I can take care of my kids when needed, etc

You forgot to mention, do you have kids.

[Blvck_Scvle]

I have 6 kids, why is that relevant?

[Enslaver]

You've got to stop buying lottery tickets; no matter what you think or MAY have won in the past, you're throwing your money away.

Your best bet at this point is to refinance your home. What's the mortgage rate you're currently paying?

[Spidey]

I have 6 kids, why is that relevant?

So youve posted multiple times, and this is the first time youve mentioned it???? Something doesnt add up.

If Im wrong I apologize, but you've put nothing to show you are a parent of 6 kids.

Why is it relevant, because unless your in the situation, you dont know that side of it

Its like single people wkithout kids giving parenting advice to parents.

[EmperorOfCanada]

This may or may not help at all depending on situation spidey but I will mention, just in case.

Haircuts - dont know if you shell out $20 a person to get your hair cut every other month or if you or the wife do it yourselves. This may not be for everyone but i know when I was younger i just paid $20 for a pair of clippers and shaved my head a couple times a month.

Garden - if you have a yard to support it, grow your own fruits and vegetables, even if it is only for the summer months and edible food you can grow could end up saving you, especially because fresh produce isnt cheap.

Sorry if my ideas suck :p

^and no I dont have kids, but Im not preaching, just throwing out ideas.

[Spidey]

You've got to stop buying lottery tickets; no matter what you think or MAY have won in the past, you're throwing your money away.

Your best bet at this point is to refinance your home. What's the mortgage rate you're currently paying?

Thats been done, as of today. I just checked the one from Saturdays draw and got $2. But didnt buy another one.

Now what if you can get into the work lotto group for $2 a week, is that ok.

[Enslaver]

This may or may not help at all depending on situation spidey but I will mention, just in case.

Haircuts - dont know if you shell out $20 a person to get your hair cut every other month or if you or the wife do it yourselves. This may not be for everyone but i know when I was younger i just paid $20 for a pair of clippers and shaved my head a couple times a month.

Garden - if you have a yard to support it, grow your own fruits and vegetables, even if it is only for the summer months and edible food you can grow could end up saving you, especially because fresh produce isnt cheap.

Sorry if my ideas suck :p

I cut my own hair! Of course I just buzz it all off, been doing it for about 6 years now, I figured I've saved about ~$1500 so far.

On another note, your mortgage rate? If you're paying a ludicrous rate (5%+) you could save a lot of money refinancing.

[Spidey]

This may or may not help at all depending on situation spidey but I will mention, just in case.

Haircuts - dont know if you shell out $20 a person to get your hair cut every other month or if you or the wife do it yourselves. This may not be for everyone but i know when I was younger i just paid $20 for a pair of clippers and shaved my head a couple times a month.

Garden - if you have a yard to support it, grow your own fruits and vegetables, even if it is only for the summer months and edible food you can grow could end up saving you, especially because fresh produce isnt cheap.

Sorry if my ideas suck :p

^and no I dont have kids, but Im not preaching, just throwing out ideas.

Some good ideas, and all we do

gardens already mentioned and been doing that since last year. Planted the tomatoes just last night

My wife cuts the kids hair, but she gets hers cut at a saloon, as well do I. I only pay $18.90 and its about every 6 weeks to 2 months. And I dont tip either

Saying that, is it wrong to not tip. Alot of times I dont because I dont have the extra money to do it.

The many on here that says its wrong to not tip, if your trying to save money is it wrong to not tip

Or because we are supposed to thats wrong. if so why? If your trying to save money, isnt not tipping a viable option

[Spidey]

I cut my own hair! Of course I just buzz it all off, been doing it for about 6 years now, I figured I've saved about ~$1500 so far.

On another note, your mortgage rate? If you're paying a ludicrous rate (5%+) you could save a lot of money refinancing.

Oh dont get me started on my mortgage rate. Freaking 5.74.

for the last 3 years I have ran every number I can do about doing the payout to get a lower interest rate, etc. And it never comes ahead ever.

Im stuck for another 1.5 years. Thats why we are making the extra payment to kind of put of the higher interest rate.

Id cut my own hair to if I jsut buzzed it, but I dont do that hairstyle.

[Enslaver]

First off, if you're saving money you shouldn't be going out to eat. Not tipping for poor service is agreeable but not tipping in general is just poor social etiquette.

If you're not going to try the refinancing route then I doubt anybody here can help you. Your mortgage is your biggest source of debt, why not try to improve what you're paying on it?

[Enslaver]

Oh dont get me started on my mortgage rate. Freaking 5.74.

for the last 3 years I have ran every number I can do about doing the payout to get a lower interest rate, etc. And it never comes ahead ever.

Im stuck for another 1.5 years. Thats why we are making the extra payment to kind of put of the higher interest rate.

Id cut my own hair to if I jsut buzzed it, but I dont do that hairstyle.

So obviously I don't have the exact amount remaining on your mortgage, but if you refinanced (paid a penalty for breaking which you can add into your new mortgage btw) your monthly payments can be significantly lower.

For example your mortgage is $250k - at that rate you're paying about $1450 a month.

If you refinance even for a fairly mediocre rate of 4.09% you're going to save about $250 a month.

Think about it, that's about $3000 a year right there.

[Enslaver]

Your problem seems not to be your overall debt load, but rather how much of it you are paying back monthly.

Restructure your payments for debts and I'm sure the clouds will part and birds will sing.

[Spidey]

First off, if you're saving money you shouldn't be going out to eat. Not tipping for poor service is agreeable but not tipping in general is just poor social etiquette.

If you're not going to try the refinancing route then I doubt anybody here can help you. Your mortgage is your biggest source of debt, why not try to improve what you're paying on it?

Thats true, but say in a year theres no way anyone will ever eat out. We barely do eat out, but it happens. Thats why we put away into a restaurant fund for those times like that.

I dont want to turn this into a tipping thread, but if I only have 4 dollars in my wallet, and a beer is $4, you get $4. Im not going into my overdraft for a $1 tip. (as an example)

So tipping is excempt then from trying to save money. Why is that?

Mortgage we already pay extra, do we pay more so we have less for other things?

There has to be balance. Sure I could put every left over dime each pay to my mortage, just to sit at home for 2 weeks.

Im sure to save you could never have lights on, but is that reasonable

[Spidey]

So obviously I don't have the exact amount remaining on your mortgage, but if you refinanced (paid a penalty for breaking which you can add into your new mortgage btw) your monthly payments can be significantly lower.

For example your mortgage is $250k - at that rate you're paying about $1450 a month.

If you refinance even for a fairly mediocre rate of 4.09% you're going to save about $250 a month.

Think about it, that's about $3000 a year right there.

But if the payout equals to the headway you have made the last 3 years whats the point. Sure your saving $250 a month but then your mortgage time is increasing and your starting right from scratch again.

Im trying to minimize debt, not lengthen it

[EmperorOfCanada]

This is how I view tipping:

If you can afford to tip, tip generously. If you cant afford to tip, dont. I dont think its bad Karma to not tip because you cant afford to.

Also

If pride doesnt get in your way, tell the hairdresser / waiter before you leave that you had no issue with the service, just money tight is right now. It might be a little humbling but it might make you feel less awkward that you might offend them and they will also know that you arent just a jerk or hated their service.

Thats just IMO and I know some people who think if you cant afford to tip then you cant afford the service.

Thats your call to make

[Spidey]

This is how I view tipping:

If you can afford to tip, tip generously. If you cant afford to tip, dont. I dont think its bad Karma to not tip because you cant afford to.

Also

If pride doesnt get in your way, tell the hairdresser / waiter before you leave that you had no issue with the service, just money tight is right now. It might be a little humbling but it might make you feel less awkward that you might offend them and they will also know that you arent just a jerk or hated their service.

Thats just IMO and I know some people who think if you cant afford to tip then you cant afford the service.

Thats your call to make

Ive been going to the same hairdresser for years. Ive jut never tipped for a haircut, didnt know you were supposed to. Me coming back so she has clients is making her money, and she knows since I come back regularly I am happy with her service.

But just cause I hear other people tip doesnt mean I will start.

As for meals, well I know sometimes when I go out by myself I have enough money for that one item, thats it. Does that mean I shouldnt go because I dont have extra money to tip. That doesnt make the business money if I stay away

[Blvck_Scvle]

So youve posted multiple times, and this is the first time youve mentioned it???? Something doesnt add up.

If Im wrong I apologize, but you've put nothing to show you are a parent of 6 kids.

Why is it relevant, because unless your in the situation, you dont know that side of it

Its like single people wkithout kids giving parenting advice to parents.

Why would I mention it before now? It's not like I personally can relate to this situation, I've never had to be in a position like this so ... I didn't think my own personal experience or background was relevant.

[Enslaver]

At this point it doesn't seem like a wise choice for you to dump all your money into your mortgage.

If you need money for other things wouldn't it be easier on yourself if you made SMALLER payments? A mortgage ideally should be one of if not the lowest interest rate debt that you would carry. You should aim to use that to your advantage.

I will never understand statements like the one you made above. Instead of making a sacrifice and not eating out at all, why should the server be the one to suffer?

When I was growing up we didn't really eat out much, if ever, and even when we did it was something crappy. Now I'm doing okay and have more than enough to splurge when I like but I respect my parents for making sacrifices I know were tough.

Lifestyle changes are usually the toughest!

[Lone_Prodigy]

OP, I'm getting the feeling that you're not willing to sacrifice. You say you've cut out almost all excess already, that you don't eat out all the time, stand in line at Starbucks every morning, etc. That's great, you should be commended for it.

But if it's still not enough, you have to keep going. You can't say "oh but I already do so much compared to so-and-so and I can't help it if I have a huge metabolism and why can't I have that ONE little thing that costs peanuts?" It breeds entitlement and bitterness.

Accept the fact that you can't eat out once a week, you can't buy lottery tickets, and you can't have cable. Make it a normal part of your lifestyle; don't view it as "cutting back".

Beer and wings with the boys? Have it at someone's house rather than a bar. Chip in a box of frozen wings and get a keg. Traditions don't last forever.

EDIT: as for tipping, I view it as part of the final bill (like tax). If I can't tip as much I'll get a cheaper item. But that's off-topic.

[Spidey]

OP, I'm getting the feeling that you're not willing to sacrifice. You say you've cut out almost all excess already, that you don't eat out all the time, stand in line at Starbucks every morning, etc. That's great, you should be commended for it.

But if it's still not enough, you have to keep going. You can't say "oh but I already do so much compared to so-and-so and I can't help it if I have a huge metabolism and why can't I have that ONE little thing that costs peanuts?" It breeds entitlement and bitterness.

Accept the fact that you can't eat out once a week, you can't buy lottery tickets, and you can't have cable. Make it a normal part of your lifestyle; don't view it as "cutting back".

Beer and wings with the boys? Have it at someone's house rather than a bar. Chip in a box of frozen wings and get a keg. Traditions don't last forever.

EDIT: as for tipping, I view it as part of the final bill (like tax). If I can't tip as much I'll get a cheaper item. But that's off-topic.

Where have I said I wont be sacrificing?

Satellite being cut, lotto cut, we are talking about selling the trailer.

I am taking the ideas on here and using what I think are viable options for us, my family.

Once a week, who the hell eats out once a week? Not us, once a month more like it, if that.

Beer and wings, who says we dont do that as well. Just sometimes, you need to get out, a change of scenery. Good for a person, and the way people make it sound that I do it every singlle day. Once every 2 months, really, thats whats causing this? Not the greedy oil companies charging $1.50 a litre for gas thats basically taking any wing and beer money I have and using it to make them selves rich

Tipping is defintly another topic. I dont go out and get less so someone else can have more. And once again, I dont get tips either

Sayign that, its not that I never tip. But if I cant tip I wont.

[Spidey]

At this point it doesn't seem like a wise choice for you to dump all your money into your mortgage.

If you need money for other things wouldn't it be easier on yourself if you made SMALLER payments? A mortgage ideally should be one of if not the lowest interest rate debt that you would carry. You should aim to use that to your advantage.

I will never understand statements like the one you made above. Instead of making a sacrifice and not eating out at all, why should the server be the one to suffer?

When I was growing up we didn't really eat out much, if ever, and even when we did it was something crappy. Now I'm doing okay and have more than enough to splurge when I like but I respect my parents for making sacrifices I know were tough.

Lifestyle changes are usually the toughest!

Oh boy here we go. The tipping, the sacrifices a waitress makes and she suffers because I dont tip. So I should sacrifice an odd night out (and its very odd) just so I dont feel bad about not tipping a server. Why should I give up a night out for that?

Please dont turn this into a tipping thread, there are millions on here

Why is she suffering because I may or may not tip. Isnt she getting paid already. Who decides who gets tips anyway, soceity.

Either or, we may stop making extra payments on the mortgage, just for now. Was nice to see the term go down with each extra payment, but cant have everything I guess

[siriuskao]

...
in your computer repair business - do you do data recovery?
theres some software you can buy to do it, and if you charge a decent amount of recover data (irreplaceable memories) vs simple repair (which people could choose to just buy a new computer instead) then maybe you can help your side business out

...

On the income generation side, perhaps you need to take your side business seriously and develop it with ideas such as the above. Any skill you gain may help further your IT career (IIRC, you are working as IT support).

[Enslaver]

Oh boy here we go. The tipping, the sacrifices a waitress makes and she suffers because I dont tip. So I should sacrifice an odd night out (and its very odd) just so I dont feel bad about not tipping a server. Why should I give up a night out for that?

Please dont turn this into a tipping thread, there are millions on here

Why is she suffering because I may or may not tip. Isnt she getting paid already. Who decides who gets tips anyway, soceity.

Either or, we may stop making extra payments on the mortgage, just for now. Was nice to see the term go down with each extra payment, but cant have everything I guess

If you're not ready to change your own lifestyle and attitude nobody else can help you.

[canehdianman]

If you're not ready to change your own lifestyle and attitude nobody else can help you.

Skimming this thread, this is dead on. Spidey doesn't want advice from anyone who doesn't have the exact same situation as him. Even going so far as to question people who say they have more kids than him

He wants to be patted on the back for already doing everything he can, without actually accepting any advice what a martyr!

Anyways, to be on topic, you arent willing to alter your expenses so it appears your best advice is to find ways to make more income. Get a better paying job, or a second job (expand your business).

[Spray]

You live in the country, why don't you go halfsies on a cow with someone, full up a deep freezer with beef? That is by the far the best way to do it on the cheap, and that's always what my parents did. Hell our neighbour only had 2 acres and but the calf, raised it then had it killed. For a family of 5, that takes care of your meat budget mostly right there.

I can't help you a lot with the rest of the stuff. I'm a young male, and don't really budget all that much on groceries. I eat what I want. I'm sure that'll change once I have kids though.




Throwing out of food idsvery rare, maybe an occasional last peice of bre

ad that went moldy that was forgotten about, or a piece of fruit that fell behind something. But more or less everything brought in is consumed.

Set menus, not sure what you mean. Do we eat the same things each week, no. But the meals can vary from Kraft dinner with tuna and peas to pork chops the next, all depends what was in the freezer on Sunday.

Snacks for the kids are always fruit, any boughten snacks are for lunches, and only one per day. We all like desert, so a no name pudding cup once a day as a desert I think is alright. I mean I want a desert to for lunch, why wouldnt they. But if there was baking done thats always eaten first, the packaged stuff is always used last and it wont go bad for a long time.

magazines, neither of us buy any, dvds, we rent from the library for free. No idea what we spend each meal, but its not like they consist of Sirloin steaks and shrimp, and whats the cost of making a cassrole, no idea. But if the kids are eating healthy and eating, not picking at it and not eating, then its a well made meal.

All of your ideas are great, but more or less we are doing them all. Each breakfast isnt just cereal and milk, one day its that, the next toast, the next oatmeal, maybe eggs and toast one day. The kids make their own breakfasts, so each one varies. My son eats a whole grapefruit at breakfast many times, not the half, the whole thing as well as his breakfast. Its not like its 2 bowls of Lucky Charms, he's eating a healthy breakfast, how can I say to a 14 year old boy whos hungry at breakfast to not eat a hole grapefruit if he's hungry.

[nyxeus]

On the income generation side, perhaps you need to take your side business seriously and develop it with ideas such as the above. Any skill you gain may help further your IT career (IIRC, you are working as IT support).

Totally agreed. I believe you could easily make $15-20K more if you gain some valuable skills to become say an administrator. I know it is extremely hard to let go of your side business and invest in your career but a couple of my friends took 1-2 yrs off for MBA and they are now manger level or above making 100K+ (just an example, no saying you should get MBA). Most of my friends in the IT industry with 5+ yrs are making $75K-85K, they don't work 7:30 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. and get decent benefits which definitely help in your case since you have several kids. For example, my company's plan covers 50% for braces. Again, I know it is easy to say and there is absolutely no guarantee you will get into a company with excellent benefits making good money but still it is something you might want to consider.

[Spidey]

You live in the country, why don't you go halfsies on a cow with someone, full up a deep freezer with beef? That is by the far the best way to do it on the cheap, and that's always what my parents did. Hell our neighbour only had 2 acres and but the calf, raised it then had it killed. For a family of 5, that takes care of your meat budget mostly right there.

I can't help you a lot with the rest of the stuff. I'm a young male, and don't really budget all that much on groceries. I eat what I want. I'm sure that'll change once I have kids though.

We get meat on the cheap or free already from either hunting season, which takes care of a lot of our meat bill. It just takes us helping out is all. As for the above, we have thought about it. But since slaughter time is fall anyway, we just go the wild range meat instead

[1maybe2]

I haven't gone thru the 8 pgs of comments but may i suggest renting out a room for the extra income? I know where I lived, there was a need from students to rent a room (a whole month of rent was cheaper then a night at the hotel) and I made some extra cash off of that. I did it while having small children at the house and the renter didn't even mind helping us with babysitting! Could that be an option?

[Spidey]

Skimming this thread, this is dead on. Spidey doesn't want advice from anyone who doesn't have the exact same situation as him. Even going so far as to question people who say they have more kids than him

He wants to be patted on the back for already doing everything he can, without actually accepting any advice what a martyr!

Anyways, to be on topic, you arent willing to alter your expenses so it appears your best advice is to find ways to make more income. Get a better paying job, or a second job (expand your business).

I dont understand????? Where have I said Im not taking any advice? Im just not taking all of it. Chirst, If I did everyhting they say on this thread Id be living in the dark with candles. I wanted some ideas, not a complete lifestyle that makes me sell my home to live in an apartment in the city.

Plus alot of the idea given on here I already do. Garden, done. Coupons, done. Barely going out, done. Doing as much things free as we can for entertainment, done

Im already took some advice and am doing the folloiwng

1. Lotto tickets - not buying anymore
2. Satellite - Im looking into that Hulu thing people mentioned. Once I figured it out, cancelled
3. Trailer - we are considering selling it. Havent had time to sit down and talk fully about it
4. Make more money - Done. Already Ive pushed my side business more and made $250 since Tuesday.

Im all for advice, doesnt mean I have to take every piece of it and use it. And just because I dont do everything people are mentioning, thats makes me a martyr. Please

[canehdianman]

I dont understand????? Where have I said Im not taking any advice? Im just not taking all of it. Chirst, If I did everyhting they say on this thread Id be living in the dark with candles. I wanted some ideas, not a complete lifestyle that makes me sell my home to live in an apartment in the city.

Plus alot of the idea given on here I already do. Garden, done. Coupons, done. Barely going out, done. Doing as much things free as we can for entertainment, done

Im already took some advice and am doing the folloiwng

1. Lotto tickets - not buying anymore
2. Satellite - Im looking into that Hulu thing people mentioned. Once I figured it out, cancelled
3. Trailer - we are considering selling it. Havent had time to sit down and talk fully about it
4. Make more money - Done. Already Ive pushed my side business more and made $250 since Tuesday.

Im all for advice, doesnt mean I have to take every piece of it and use it. And just because I dont do everything people are mentioning, thats makes me a martyr. Please

Yeah, I apologize. I had only read the first few pages when I posted that. Later on, you get a little less defensive and start talking about cutbacks.

I hope everything gets better for you, you seem to have quite a few good ideas already. I do think that increasing your income would be the easiest way to up your quality of life though.

[Spidey]

Why would I mention it before now? It's not like I personally can relate to this situation, I've never had to be in a position like this so ... I didn't think my own personal experience or background was relevant.

Ok, so if you have 6 kids, and are doing well. Whats your food budget? What things do you to to keep the family moving along. Everything is increasing these days, and most wages arent keeping up to the pace.

Some of your ideas you have mentioned I have already done. Besides the cutting back on your kids eating, what do you to cut back on food.

With a family of 7 your food budget must be huge. Im sure you have some good ways to cut back on family meals etc. And are you dual or single income, that would make a huge difference if a single income.

Are they all younger or some in their teens. Older they get the more they eat, so ech year your food budget has to go up

[Spidey]

On the income generation side, perhaps you need to take your side business seriously and develop it with ideas such as the above. Any skill you gain may help further your IT career (IIRC, you are working as IT support).

Actually I do. anything I learn at work I use for that as well. Since theres always something new it just moves over to that naturally.

The reason I like to do my side business besides an actual part-time job is because Im on salary and my hours vary everyday.

Somedays Im out at 4, sometimes not until 6:30. Sometimes if something happens here very late.

I cant have a part-time job that I have to worry about getting to when I have a full-time job that doesnt have real set hours and then have to call my other job and say I wont be in. Wont be working the second job very much.

But doing it this way, I can work it around my work schedule.

[Spidey]

If you're not ready to change your own lifestyle and attitude nobody else can help you.

No your basically saying I should never go out because I may or may not be able to tip.

Our going out is to the minimum a year as it is. Should we not do it ever again, just to save $50 every 2-3 months.

Date nights between my wife and I aree maybe 5 times a year if that. Shoudl we cancel those to, just in case some waitress cant get an extra $5 tip.

And if there is no money to go out due to whatever, we arent going out.

As Ive pointed out, Ive already implemented some changes that people have mentioned, so I dont get where Im not changing my lifestyl.e

[Spidey]

I haven't gone thru the 8 pgs of comments but may i suggest renting out a room for the extra income? I know where I lived, there was a need from students to rent a room (a whole month of rent was cheaper then a night at the hotel) and I made some extra cash off of that. I did it while having small children at the house and the renter didn't even mind helping us with babysitting! Could that be an option?

We dont have an extra room to rent. And we dont live in the city. So not an option. if we did would consider it, because a drive out here is only 7 minutes anyway, but defintly not walking distance

[Spidey]

Totally agreed. I believe you could easily make $15-20K more if you gain some valuable skills to become say an administrator. I know it is extremely hard to let go of your side business and invest in your career but a couple of my friends took 1-2 yrs off for MBA and they are now manger level or above making 100K+ (just an example, no saying you should get MBA). Most of my friends in the IT industry with 5+ yrs are making $75K-85K, they don't work 7:30 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. and get decent benefits which definitely help in your case since you have several kids. For example, my company's plan covers 50% for braces. Again, I know it is easy to say and there is absolutely no guarantee you will get into a company with excellent benefits making good money but still it is something you might want to consider.

Unless we are willing to move from the city, this isnt happening. Any jobs like that arent availble like in the bigger centres.

The wages you mention are from where though, Toronto. Wages vary depending on the size of the city, hence while I have a good job and am in charge of the IT for the whole company, my wage is lower.

It sucks, but just the way it goes. So I could do what you mention, but doesnt mean I will get hired where I live

And Im not moving to a huge city, theres a reason why we dont now. Im not moving to Calgary or Vancounver to make more money and hate where I live. If we wanted to move to a big city, we would of 9 years ago when we moved from Saskatchewan with no jobs.

I am studying to get more certifications as we speak. So hopefully when it comes to the next raise I can use that to up it even more

[Spidey]

Yeah, I apologize. I had only read the first few pages when I posted that. Later on, you get a little less defensive and start talking about cutbacks.

I hope everything gets better for you, you seem to have quite a few good ideas already. I do think that increasing your income would be the easiest way to up your quality of life though.

I was getting more or less defensive when everyone kept saying I refuse to change anything.

While the cutbacks we can do will help, Ive even told my wife to stop buying me creamer for my coffee in the morning and Ill just get it at work. But even doing small things like that, it comes down to me making more money. And I plan on it, have 3 appointments this week booked already.

[taylyn]

I don't tip for anything. I pay the price for any product or service I use, nothing more, nothing less. I feel it's unfair for someone to say "stop going out" at all because you choose not to tip or can't afford the extra. There is no law that says you must pay 15% above the price of something. People will say what they want, but at the end of the day it's not as though someone will not give you a service or product you are paying for because you don't pay 15-20% more. I don't care if someone does wish to do this, I choose not to. For example, I get my hair done every 4 weeks for $75 plus HST. I made a deal with the salon that if I am a regular customer going there every 4 weeks I would not tip. They want my $1000+ a year business, so they are ahead. If I did tip that's the equivalent of 2 trips a year. Everyone wins :)

[Spidey]

I don't tip for anything. I pay the price for any product or service I use, nothing more, nothing less. I feel it's unfair for someone to say "stop going out" at all because you choose not to tip or can't afford the extra. There is no law that says you must pay 15% above the price of something. People will say what they want, but at the end of the day it's not as though someone will not give you a service or product you are paying for because you don't pay 15-20% more. I don't care if someone does wish to do this, I choose not to. For example, I get my hair done every 4 weeks for $75 plus HST. I made a deal with the salon that if I am a regular customer going there every 4 weeks I would not tip. They want my $1000+ a year business, so they are ahead. If I did tip that's the equivalent of 2 trips a year. Everyone wins :)

Im 100% with this. The place I get my hair cut I dont tip, but Ive been going to them for 9 years. My tip is my consistent business to them.

If I have $3 in my wallet and it comes to $3, thats what you get is $3. Im supposed to not get the item because I dont have money to tip. So then the business itself loses money because I dont have the extra money to tip.

I myself dont understand that. The place makes money by people coming there, not by tipping.

But this isnt a tipping thread, if I save money by not tipping, then I wont tip.

Why is it every other sacrifice has to be made, but tipping is the one thing thats allowed to slip through

[.Jessica]

It's good that you're pushing the side business. Bringing more money in is the only way to make things work sometimes. Data recovery is a great idea if you don't already offer it. Can you switch from landline to VOIP for home phone? Can you save on cell phones? If you do choose to cut your TV and go with hulu or netflix take bandwidth caps into account (if you have a cap). Getting rid of the trailer might seem harsh now but is using a tent so wrong? Can you go with a cheaper car and drive less to save on fuel? I don't blame you for wanting to get your hair cut instead of doing it yourself and wanting to go out once in a while but if it's getting really tight look into cutting down a little more.

I scanned the whole thread and the food budget seems to me the big thing... You don't have to go hungry but do you think sometimes it might be excessive? You get your meat mostly free, grow some veggies and fruit, but it's still $750 for 5 people? Can I ask where most of that is going (you don't have to answer if you feel it's too personal)? Produce maybe? You CAN grow year round but you'll have to put a little into the set up and of course maintenance. It might sound a little extreme but growing indoors isn't as bad as it seems. You can do the upside down hanging planters, hydroponic systems which can be set up cheap, are clean, compact, and effective. Once a week they need some maintaining but that can be shared among family members. What about a small, very simple greenhouse too? If you could cut even $250 a month from your grocery budget with an upfront investment of $500-600 do you think you would be willing to? Eggs are always cheap, nutritious and filling too so you don't feel like you're going hungry. I think you said you're baking your own bread and cookies. Use coupons when you can obviously but I know a lot of them are for junk food which you don't want anyway. You don't have to starve yourself but see if there are any foods that are relatively cheap and healthy and keep you more full.

Couponing on personal items helps too. Do you or your wife colour your hair? You buy no name food but are you specific when it comes to personal care products? Some have to be brand name, I understand, but if you can go from $5 soap to $1 soap and $15 shampoo and conditioner to $2 a bottle stuff it's something. There are some great cheaper brands but a lot of people don't want to switch brands in this area.

If you just don't tip, you don't have to start. My mom tips for everything (she tipped 60% on my tattoo. That's right, six followed by zero :facepalm:), and I do it too because that's just what I'm used to, it's appreciated and it helps the other person but if you don't have the little extra or just don't think you should be paying extra don't worry about it. If it's someone you see regularly you can give them a thank you card or bring them a slice of cake once in a while if you do appreciate the good job they do. That might be worth more than the $2 to them.

If one of your children really needs braces try to do it. Leaving it can be more costly and more painful for your son. Some things are exaggerated so getting the second opinion is worth it. If it's only cosmetic you might have to see if it can wait but in a lot of cases it's not. Even if it is cosmetic and he's self conscious you might want to seriously consider it. The added confidence can do a lot of good in the long run too. Could your son help pay at all?

If you can save $250 a month on food, $200 on the trailer $15 on lottery tickets, $30 on TV, $30 on home phone, and say an average of $50/month in little tiny things over the year you're doing $575 better every month than you were before. There are some sacrifices but you might find that overall you're actually more comfortable with a little safety net and some of the weight off your shoulders than having the things you do now and feeling the pinch. If you can bring in an extra $200 a month from your computer business that's great too. If you can save and bring extra in think about keeping the trailer because you seem to love it. It's just about balance.

[Spidey]

It's good that you're pushing the side business. Bringing more money in is the only way to make things work sometimes. Data recovery is a great idea if you don't already offer it. Can you switch from landline to VOIP for home phone? Can you save on cell phones? If you do choose to cut your TV and go with hulu or netflix take bandwidth caps into account (if you have a cap). Getting rid of the trailer might seem harsh now but is using a tent so wrong? Can you go with a cheaper car and drive less to save on fuel? I don't blame you for wanting to get your hair cut instead of doing it yourself and wanting to go out once in a while but if it's getting really tight look into cutting down a little more.

I scanned the whole thread and the food budget seems to me the big thing... You don't have to go hungry but do you think sometimes it might be excessive? You get your meat mostly free, grow some veggies and fruit, but it's still $750 for 5 people? Can I ask where most of that is going (you don't have to answer if you feel it's too personal)? Produce maybe? You CAN grow year round but you'll have to put a little into the set up and of course maintenance. It might sound a little extreme but growing indoors isn't as bad as it seems. You can do the upside down hanging planters, hydroponic systems which can be set up cheap, are clean, compact, and effective. Once a week they need some maintaining but that can be shared among family members. What about a small, very simple greenhouse too? If you could cut even $250 a month from your grocery budget with an upfront investment of $500-600 do you think you would be willing to? Eggs are always cheap, nutritious and filling too so you don't feel like you're going hungry. I think you said you're baking your own bread and cookies. Use coupons when you can obviously but I know a lot of them are for junk food which you don't want anyway. You don't have to starve yourself but see if there are any foods that are relatively cheap and healthy and keep you more full.

Couponing on personal items helps too. Do you or your wife colour your hair? You buy no name food but are you specific when it comes to personal care products? Some have to be brand name, I understand, but if you can go from $5 soap to $1 soap and $15 shampoo and conditioner to $2 a bottle stuff it's something. There are some great cheaper brands but a lot of people don't want to switch brands in this area.

If you just don't tip, you don't have to start. My mom tips for everything (she tipped 60% on my tattoo. That's right, six followed by zero :facepalm:), and I do it too because that's just what I'm used to, it's appreciated and it helps the other person but if you don't have the little extra or just don't think you should be paying extra don't worry about it. If it's someone you see regularly you can give them a thank you card or bring them a slice of cake once in a while if you do appreciate the good job they do. That might be worth more than the $2 to them.

If one of your children really needs braces try to do it. Leaving it can be more costly and more painful for your son. Some things are exaggerated so getting the second opinion is worth it. If it's only cosmetic you might have to see if it can wait but in a lot of cases it's not. Even if it is cosmetic and he's self conscious you might want to seriously consider it. The added confidence can do a lot of good in the long run too. Could your son help pay at all?

If you can save $250 a month on food, $200 on the trailer $15 on lottery tickets, $30 on TV, $30 on home phone, and say an average of $50/month in little tiny things over the year you're doing $575 better every month than you were before. There are some sacrifices but you might find that overall you're actually more comfortable with a little safety net and some of the weight off your shoulders than having the things you do now and feeling the pinch. If you can bring in an extra $200 a month from your computer business that's great too. If you can save and bring extra in think about keeping the trailer because you seem to love it. It's just about balance.

For the food budget, Im not in charge of food. My wife is, I dont do any of it. We have our roles and thats hers. We dont have the combined time to both go with each other. But when she brings stuff home on the big monthly run, Im not seeing garbage, and Im not seeing high end cuts of steak either (for that matter no cuts of steak actually) Im sure some could be cut, but I know a lot of the stuff i see the 50% off because she buys that stuff to save money.

Junk food isnt in the house. Maybe a couple bags of no name chips and movie nights are popper popcorn (not microwaveable) We areny big fans of keeping junk food and pop around all the time. While we do have 2 litres of pop in the pantry, thats for a treat, not to be drank daily. Plus its my mix as well if we have guests, they know better to touch it :lol:

Cheaper car, hard to do. Need my truck (paid for) for the acreage to haul water and the trailer, and the car we have it a 3 row car because we need more than 5 passengers for hauling the family around. We used to have 5 of us in a 1993 VW gold before we upgraded to a minivan. We know whats its like to squeeze into a small car. But with them growing,, theres no way we can do that now.

Besides if we do go for a cheaper used car, then what happens if its a POS and Im spending a fortune on repairs. Could it be done, Im sure it could. Thing is though where do you draw the line for saving money and making something being more than just an inconvienience. If we have a car we all cant fit in with stuff for the day on a road trip for something, then whats the point in downsizing

Couponing is big, food or personal items. We dont buy name brand stuff unless a coupon makes it less than the egeneric brand. Mouthwash, shampoo, etc. We are brand loyal, whatsvers on sale works for us

The braces he says hes ok not getting them, but from looking at his bottom row they are very out of line as in one in front and one complete behind, and more than just 2. he wont be paying for them, we are his parents, not something he should be burdened with. I want a second opion for 2 reasons. Cost, will the other person be chraper. Second, is there a cheaper route to do. But if not, then for sure he will be gettingg them.

Eggs we get from the next door farmer on the cheap, and sometimes free because they like our kids.

We can and do get creative to save money. Its just a fact of getting a little more of being creative. Just tweaking a bit more of what we do

[.Jessica]

For the food budget, Im not in charge of food. My wife is, I dont do any of it. We have our roles and thats hers. We dont have the combined time to both go with each other. But when she brings stuff home on the big monthly run, Im not seeing garbage, and Im not seeing high end cuts of steak either (for that matter no cuts of steak actually) Im sure some could be cut, but I know a lot of the stuff i see the 50% off because she buys that stuff to save money.

Junk food isnt in the house. Maybe a couple bags of no name chips and movie nights are popper popcorn (not microwaveable) We areny big fans of keeping junk food and pop around all the time. While we do have 2 litres of pop in the pantry, thats for a treat, not to be drank daily. Plus its my mix as well if we have guests, they know better to touch it :lol:

Cheaper car, hard to do. Need my truck (paid for) for the acreage to haul water and the trailer, and the car we have it a 3 row car because we need more than 5 passengers for hauling the family around. We used to have 5 of us in a 1993 VW gold before we upgraded to a minivan. We know whats its like to squeeze into a small car. But with them growing,, theres no way we can do that now.

Besides if we do go for a cheaper used car, then what happens if its a POS and Im spending a fortune on repairs. Could it be done, Im sure it could. Thing is though where do you draw the line for saving money and making something being more than just an inconvienience. If we have a car we all cant fit in with stuff for the day on a road trip for something, then whats the point in downsizing

Couponing is big, food or personal items. We dont buy name brand stuff unless a coupon makes it less than the egeneric brand. Mouthwash, shampoo, etc. We are brand loyal, whatsvers on sale works for us

The braces he says hes ok not getting them, but from looking at his bottom row they are very out of line as in one in front and one complete behind, and more than just 2. he wont be paying for them, we are his parents, not something he should be burdened with. I want a second opion for 2 reasons. Cost, will the other person be chraper. Second, is there a cheaper route to do. But if not, then for sure he will be gettingg them.

Eggs we get from the next door farmer on the cheap, and sometimes free because they like our kids.

We can and do get creative to save money. Its just a fact of getting a little more of being creative. Just tweaking a bit more of what we do

I do get the food thing, my mom does the same, buying 50% off, shopping on sale, buying in bulk and no-name and it's still expensive. She wanted to start growing some fruits and vegetables because they've all shot up 20-40% and what they're doing to them is a little disgusting TBH. Growing is some work, especially indoors, but if you can save enough it's always something to consider. You can't totally cut down though. Nobody wants to feel like they're starving and you do need a few treats too. The car I get too, the farther away you are from the city the more you need it. We moved from Toronto to Whitby and it's been a pain in the butt since my mom doesn't drive and I can't even take my written test for a few more months. I can imagine how much you need something reliable in the country. I definitely didn't mean making your son pay if he needs them, that's a huge burden, but if it's only cosmetic you could talk about it. Not making the full payments but contributing if it's more of a want than a need. Opinions change a lot as you get older and the pressure to present that image of "perfection" is more than ever. I think you said your son is 12? I'm 16 in a few months and even the guys I know are getting way more concerned about appearance than they were a few years ago. I do agree it is tough cutting back more when you're already doing plenty to save. My mom is a bit of a penny pincher but there are things she just won't give up too. We don't have cable but she won't drop the 3 cell phones that add up to $150/month. Everyone needs a few pleasures or you just end up pissed off at life and feeling like everything you're doing isn't worth it. Sitting down with the family and talking makes it seem more fair and your kids will probably appreciate you teaching them how to be frugal even if they don't now. I've learned a lot from my mom and yeah, sometimes being told "no" or compromising is annoying but at least I'll be able to manage money and not give in to every little want when I'm on my own.

[Spidey]

I do get the food thing, my mom does the same, buying 50% off, shopping on sale, buying in bulk and no-name and it's still expensive. She wanted to start growing some fruits and vegetables because they've all shot up 20-40% and what they're doing to them is a little disgusting TBH. Growing is some work, especially indoors, but if you can save enough it's always something to consider. You can't totally cut down though. Nobody wants to feel like they're starving and you do need a few treats too. The car I get too, the farther away you are from the city the more you need it. We moved from Toronto to Whitby and it's been a pain in the butt since my mom doesn't drive and I can't even take my written test for a few more months. I can imagine how much you need something reliable in the country. I definitely didn't mean making your son pay if he needs them, that's a huge burden, but if it's only cosmetic you could talk about it. Not making the full payments but contributing if it's more of a want than a need. Opinions change a lot as you get older and the pressure to present that image of "perfection" is more than ever. I think you said your son is 12? I'm 16 in a few months and even the guys I know are getting way more concerned about appearance than they were a few years ago. I do agree it is tough cutting back more when you're already doing plenty to save. My mom is a bit of a penny pincher but there are things she just won't give up too. We don't have cable but she won't drop the 3 cell phones that add up to $150/month. Everyone needs a few pleasures or you just end up pissed off at life and feeling like everything you're doing isn't worth it. Sitting down with the family and talking makes it seem more fair and your kids will probably appreciate you teaching them how to be frugal even if they don't now. I've learned a lot from my mom and yeah, sometimes being told "no" or compromising is annoying but at least I'll be able to manage money and not give in to every little want when I'm on my own.

He's 14, and he isnt into the physical appearance perfection yet like some guys are at that age. Not saying he's a slob, but he doesnt care about name brand clothes or things like that.

I do agree though when you have to cut back, you have to have a little but of fun as well. Otherwise your just gonna hate your life. Nit saying it has to be super expensive fun, but even so, we are social beings, we need to get out once in awhile

[KevC]

Wow - just wanted to pop in here and say hang in there, Spidey.

It really does sounds tough but you are still clearing every month so just try to keep it up!

I'm not meaning this is any sarcastic way, just trying to offer some support.

Don't feel too bad about not being able to offer your kids braces. I never had braces when I was young, wish I had though. But I never once blamed my parents for not giving em to me. Now that I'm working full-time, I'm going to be taking advantage of my dental plan at work to get a metal-mouth :lol:

How old are your children? When they reach 15/16, they might be able to help out with a part-time job? I know it isn't a good feeling to lean on your children, but that's what family is for; right?

As for groceries, have you tried purchasing all fresh things? As in - no processed things. Only things on sale (obviously), and only things in the produce section. I find anything that comes in a box (like cereal, granola bar snacks, etc) are more expensive than bringing fruit for snacks, for example. Fruit is far healthier too.

[1maybe2]

The braces he says hes ok not getting them, but from looking at his bottom row they are very out of line as in one in front and one complete behind, and more than just 2. he wont be paying for them, we are his parents, not something he should be burdened with. I want a second opion for 2 reasons. Cost, will the other person be chraper. Second, is there a cheaper route to do. But if not, then for sure he will be gettingg them.



My teeth are like that. One in the front, next two in the back, next one in the front again and it repeats. Food kept getting stuck in bewteen but other then that I didn't really suffer much. I don't know any more details and im not saying don't get him the braces but it sounds like it can wait a few months or even a year until you saved a bit. I never got braces until i got my first job. At that point, my dentist told me that i didnt really need my top half done so I worked out a deal with the dentist and only did the bottom teeth or "half" and reduced the price. Paperwork wise, I did the "whole" thing and insurance took the claim. Hope this could work out for you.

[Spidey]

My teeth are like that. One in the front, next two in the back, next one in the front again and it repeats. Food kept getting stuck in bewteen but other then that I didn't really suffer much. I don't know any more details and im not saying don't get him the braces but it sounds like it can wait a few months or even a year until you saved a bit. I never got braces until i got my first job. At that point, my dentist told me that i didnt really need my top half done so I worked out a deal with the dentist and only did the bottom teeth or "half" and reduced the price. Paperwork wise, I did the "whole" thing and insurance took the claim. Hope this could work out for you.

He has been going to this ortho for about 3 years now every 6 months, and each time he said lets wait and see as kids mouths change as they age. So while he said he needs them, he didnt say he needs them ASAP. So thats give us some breathing room for second opinions and saving some more for a down payment if he truly does need them.

He has one more baby tooth that needs to be pulled that may help with the crwoding, but he said its doubtful they will align back because of just the shape they are in.

[Spidey]

Wow - just wanted to pop in here and say hang in there, Spidey.

It really does sounds tough but you are still clearing every month so just try to keep it up!

I'm not meaning this is any sarcastic way, just trying to offer some support.

Don't feel too bad about not being able to offer your kids braces. I never had braces when I was young, wish I had though. But I never once blamed my parents for not giving em to me. Now that I'm working full-time, I'm going to be taking advantage of my dental plan at work to get a metal-mouth :lol:

How old are your children? When they reach 15/16, they might be able to help out with a part-time job? I know it isn't a good feeling to lean on your children, but that's what family is for; right?

As for groceries, have you tried purchasing all fresh things? As in - no processed things. Only things on sale (obviously), and only things in the produce section. I find anything that comes in a box (like cereal, granola bar snacks, etc) are more expensive than bringing fruit for snacks, for example. Fruit is far healthier too.

Thanks

Its just the keeping up sometimes gets to a person somedays. The day I orignally posted it was just "great, im broke as it is, lets just pile more on" As it is I barely do anything as it is, do I just deny myself everything now.

But after a few days and with some cuts we should be fine, and me making more money I hope. Doesnt mean we are changing the way we save money know, we will just add more to what we already do

[blainehamilton]

Spidey, after reading the additional posts in the thread and your responses, it is clear you are severly overextended on your mortgage.

You need to either:

1. Bring in an additional $1000+ income after tax between your wife and yourself.

2. Take a line of credit on the house and pay off the car and trailer balance oweing.

3. Reduce that mortgage payment by about $500 via renegotiation and cut out that trailer and car payment.

4. Nickle and dime all the other little stuff to make up $1000 in savings a month.


Option 1. would be most preferable, but needs to be consistent. Working variable hours on a low salary with fixed increases as head IT for a company is not practical, regardless if you love it or not. I'd be looking for a better paying fulltime job not in the IT sector. Otherwise, look for part time work that pays well on top of your existing full time income. Working as a cashier or attendant somewhere isn't glamorous, but it will help pay the bills.

You do have to admit your initial post was pretty dire, and you were pretty critical of some of the responses. You said you were at the end of your rope, then your details showed the extra slack rolled up in your budget, people pointed that out, and you proceeded to endlessly defend it.

Having kids that need braces means you give up rvs, new cars, beers and wings, lotto tickets, satellite and internet, cell phones, 3rd burgers and any other frills if you aren't pulling in 6 figures these days. I watched my parents in the early 80s struggle with 20% mortgage rates, raise 4 boys, work 2 jobs, scrimp and save every penny they could to make ends meet, and that's how they did it.


It's summer for 5 months. At the very minimum, cut off the Satellite, Netflix, Hulu entirely, and downgrade the internet to light speed. Set up a set of rabbit ears for OTA transmissions, even if it's not HD. You and your family will survive...

[Spidey]

Spidey, after reading the additional posts in the thread and your responses, it is clear you are severly overextended on your mortgage.

You need to either:

1. Bring in an additional $1000+ income after tax between your wife and yourself.

2. Take a line of credit on the house and pay off the car and trailer balance oweing.

3. Reduce that mortgage payment by about $500 via renegotiation and cut out that trailer and car payment.

4. Nickle and dime all the other little stuff to make up $1000 in savings a month.

Option 1. would be most preferable, but needs to be consistent. Working variable hours on a low salary with fixed increases as head IT for a company is not practical, regardless if you love it or not. I'd be looking for a better paying fulltime job not in the IT sector. Otherwise, look for part time work that pays well on top of your existing full time income. Working as a cashier or attendant somewhere isn't glamorous, but it will help pay the bills.

You do have to admit your initial post was pretty dire, and you were pretty critical of some of the responses. You said you were at the end of your rope, then your details showed the extra slack rolled up in your budget, people pointed that out, and you proceeded to endlessly defend it.

Having kids that need braces means you give up rvs, new cars, beers and wings, lotto tickets, satellite and internet, cell phones, 3rd burgers and any other frills if you aren't pulling in 6 figures these days. I watched my parents in the early 80s struggle with 20% mortgage rates, raise 4 boys, work 2 jobs, scrimp and save every penny they could to make ends meet, and that's how they did it.

It's summer for 5 months. At the very minimum, cut off the Satellite, Netflix, Hulu entirely, and downgrade the internet to light speed. Set up a set of rabbit ears for OTA transmissions, even if it's not HD. You and your family will survive...

As mentioned numerous times, Im making changes as we speak. Taking some ideas and using them and not using others. cant use them all

My salary may not be 50K yet, but its not exactly a pittance either. Plus with the way raises are going Ive gone up 18.4% since Jan 2007. So while I should of maybe negotiated a higher starting wage, it was a higher wage than I was currently making at my old job. As for variable hours, whats wrong with that. Somedays I get off really early, and in the summer months get ever 2nd Friday off with pay. While money is awesome, its not what makes the job totally. Perks as well make up for a lot.

I know for sure I need to pull in more income, and thats what my main concentration will be, plus the smaller things like getting rid of the sattelite, etc, etc. And as Ive mentioned hard to take another part-time job when I have varied hours. If I know everyday Im done at 4:30, then sure, I could. But I dont, somedays Im out of town for work and get back late. I cant keep calling my other job and say I wont be in because of that, they wont keep me on. So my side business will be what I will do more, advertise a bit more on the cheap or free side, or even use the barter system for some places if I can

As for nickle and dime stuff, we no where nickle and dime ourselves to $1000 a month, not even a fraction of that. I went to the movie last Saturday, that and a beer cost me $3.50. Was the first movie I went to since the fall, and my friends invited me to go. So I was to say no to save $3.50 Sure, its $3.50 but Im mentioned previously, a person cant be a hermit. If I didnt have my Scene points to get the free movie, Im sure I wouldnt of gone.

You say your parents did that, I dont doubt it, mine did as well without jobs, they were farmers, and not a guaranteed wage. We as well do what we can to raise our family as well, and if that means we give up more than what we already have, so be it.

[jamzbe]

The nickel and diming isn't about paying for the braces, it's for the future. These nickels and dimes that you've cut back and save over the years could have saved you a nice cash cushion so that when you need to buy the braces for example you aren't stuck. How far back could you have nickel and dimed? You'd be surprised on how much you could have saved for a cash cushion.

Also, although it's not glamorous, you might want to look for government subsidies or help. You've paid into a lot of the social benefits so you might want to tap into it. Maybe you can find a non-profit dentist? Lots of people dismiss this but you'd be surprised on what's out there.

[Spidey]

The nickel and diming isn't about paying for the braces, it's for the future. These nickels and dimes that you've cut back and save over the years could have saved you a nice cash cushion so that when you need to buy the braces for example you aren't stuck. How far back could you have nickel and dimed? You'd be surprised on how much you could have saved for a cash cushion.

Also, although it's not glamorous, you might want to look for government subsidies or help. You've paid into a lot of the social benefits so you might want to tap into it. Maybe you can find a non-profit dentist? Lots of people dismiss this but you'd be surprised on what's out there.

Thats the thing, when do you start not doing the nickle and dime stuff, late teens, mid 20's, etc.

We all have out little things we do that cost money, from a Tim Hortons coffee to a monthly magazine. But where do you draw the line of not doing anything to saving money. And when do you start. I has kids at 24, was I supposed to start saving for braces then? How can a person know whats going to happen in the future. You cant plan for everything, and you cant save every dime you make for some potential problem in the future, otherwise you would have no money for anything every, it would all be saved for "something" that may happen

Some of our nickle and dime stuff we dont do go towards other things like the kids RESPS, etc. But you cant save every nickle and dime, you just cant. No one in the world does.

I could go back to being 5 years old and buying a bag of chips. All of us could, there has to be a middle ground somewhere

[Angela V]

I woudn't shop at Superstore if there's a No Frills or Food Basics store around. The kids and I had to live with my Mom for 5 months when my husband was job hunting. Yes sometimes there were deals at the Superstore but I found it was cheaper to shop at No Frills or Food Basics. I currently have a No Frills and use coupons whenever I can and watch out for deals. I don't stock up as much anymore because this store is good at having their own sales. I know the deal is going to come around again soon and find this better. I don't end up spending more at one time for sales. We used to be members of Costco and honestly now that we aren't, I feel like we weren't really saving because we were spending more at one time to save. My husband makes much less then he did before but now were we live I have found I can manage the money better.

[Spidey]

I woudn't shop at Superstore if there's a No Frills or Food Basics store around. The kids and I had to live with my Mom for 5 months when my husband was job hunting. Yes sometimes there were deals at the Superstore but I found it was cheaper to shop at No Frills or Food Basics. I currently have a No Frills and use coupons whenever I can and watch out for deals. I don't stock up as much anymore because this store is good at having their own sales. I know the deal is going to come around again soon and find this better. I don't end up spending more at one time for sales. We used to be members of Costco and honestly now that we aren't, I feel like we weren't really saving because we were spending more at one time to save. My husband makes much less then he did before but now were we live I have found I can manage the money better.

We dont have any of those stores here. Superstore is the cheapest we have, and with the superbucks we save even more (we get 4.5cent backa litre of fuel from the gas bar)

Costso we split a membership with the mother-in-law and only shop there occasionally if theres a big sale on something

[macy69]

When I was younger and was depressed about my financial situation, I read Angela's Ashes. It would usually brighten my day considerably

[poedua]

I feel for you. While we're not there right now, we're close. Our situation is a bit different though as we're paying 2 mortgages right now.

I dunno, it sounds like you're doing the best you can. The only thing I can think of are your car and housing expenses (or possibly daycare, not knowing how old your kids are).

What percentage of your net income is your housing expenses (include everything -- taxes, hydro, natural gas, insurance, etc)?

What percentage of your net income is your vehicle/transportation costs?

+1

This can be a HUGE drain on monthly cash flows.

[deep]

I think people are getting hung up on the food thing. That part of your budget never disappears, and as long as you are doing your reasonable best to keep the costs down, that's good. You can't just arbitrarily say "cut $250 per month from your food budget" as some people have suggested. I just looked over our 2010 tracker, and we averaged $848 per month for a family of 5 (but that's 3 under 10, no teenagers yet!). We don't eat prepared foods, nothing pre-packaged for kids lunches except for granola bars, no pop, little booze, and not much junk food. Could I do even better? Sure, but I do like eating well, and we almost never go out.

Just keep it up Spidey.

Side note: It's funny how much of some people's lives we've experienced through RFD. I think I know as much about Spidey, who lives thousands of km away, than I do about most of my coworkers, and some of my friends :)

[Spidey]

I think people are getting hung up on the food thing. That part of your budget never disappears, and as long as you are doing your reasonable best to keep the costs down, that's good. You can't just arbitrarily say "cut $250 per month from your food budget" as some people have suggested. I just looked over our 2010 tracker, and we averaged $848 per month for a family of 5 (but that's 3 under 10, no teenagers yet!). We don't eat prepared foods, nothing pre-packaged for kids lunches except for granola bars, no pop, little booze, and not much junk food. Could I do even better? Sure, but I do like eating well, and we almost never go out.

Just keep it up Spidey.

Side note: It's funny how much of some people's lives we've experienced through RFD. I think I know as much about Spidey, who lives thousands of km away, than I do about most of my coworkers, and some of my friends :)

While we aheva high food budget, its not from garbage food. We arent coming with packs of pizza pops and TV dinners. But we are a family of 5 with 3 growing kids, and one a teenager. They eat, there is no denying it. They eat food that is good for them, not pre packaged garbage.

Im sure we could cut out the no name puddings for them for desserts. But they are good to have in a pinch when you dont have any baking for desserts. YEs we eat dessert, a meal doesnt feel complete unless we have one. Mostly me and the kids, not my wife.

Since I originally posted things are looking better. Gas jsut jumped another 10 cents a litre. So while I want to say it the food, etc. Its just the rising cost of everything, food, utilities, gas, etc. No control over that, unless we stop driving all together

[poedua]

While we aheva high food budget, its not from garbage food. We arent coming with packs of pizza pops and TV dinners. But we are a family of 5 with 3 growing kids, and one a teenager. They eat, there is no denying it. They eat food that is good for them, not pre packaged garbage.

Im sure we could cut out the no name puddings for them for desserts. But they are good to have in a pinch when you dont have any baking for desserts. YEs we eat dessert, a meal doesnt feel complete unless we have one. Mostly me and the kids, not my wife.

Since I originally posted things are looking better. Gas jsut jumped another 10 cents a litre. So while I want to say it the food, etc. Its just the rising cost of everything, food, utilities, gas, etc. No control over that, unless we stop driving all together

How many vehicles do you own ? Did you buy them new or used ? How long do you plan on hanging on to them ?

What is your budget like in terms of ' cost of ownership ' for vehicle transportation - i.e gas, insurance, maintenance and repairs ?

And on an unrelated note, what are you cell phone charges like ? More than one cell ? Do you still have a land line ?

[Spidey]

How many vehicles do you own ? Did you buy them new or used ? How long do you plan on hanging on to them ?

What is your budget like in terms of ' cost of ownership ' for vehicle transportation - i.e gas, insurance, maintenance and repairs ?

And on an unrelated note, what are you cell phone charges like ? More than one cell ? Do you still have a land line ?

We have 2, both bought used, and keeping them for minimum 8-10 years. Our minivan before was for almost 9 an my other car I had for 14 years.

Cost of ownership, we budegt $100 a month for maintenance and repairs for both vehciles, etc. Insurance is insurance for them, unless we converted to 2 small hatchbacks, insurance isnt really easy to be changed. We do have all our insurance through one place and get huge discounts for that, good driving, claims, free, etc

Cell phones are $70 for both, just texting and phone. No data, no websurfing. And yes we still have a land line because how do we get ahold of the kids when they are home or how do they get a hold of us in an emergency.

Id like to get tid of the cells but with just the running around of 3 kids, it saves us time and money in the long run from missing things, or picking up someone or something that was forgotten, etc

Could we do without the cellphones, Im sure we would manage. But they have saved us a lot of time in the past from unneeded running around when things come up

[masterhapposai]

While we aheva high food budget, its not from garbage food. We arent coming with packs of pizza pops and TV dinners. But we are a family of 5 with 3 growing kids, and one a teenager. They eat, there is no denying it. They eat food that is good for them, not pre packaged garbage.

Im sure we could cut out the no name puddings for them for desserts. But they are good to have in a pinch when you dont have any baking for desserts. YEs we eat dessert, a meal doesnt feel complete unless we have one. Mostly me and the kids, not my wife.

Since I originally posted things are looking better. Gas jsut jumped another 10 cents a litre. So while I want to say it the food, etc. Its just the rising cost of everything, food, utilities, gas, etc. No control over that, unless we stop driving all together

I'm one of the cheapest people around, so I'm going to help out by telling you what to do here to save your family.

I've seen you post for years now on this same forum and it would be a shame if you go down due to a few things you could easily correct. There's also probably more at play here, I'm curious about your wife's usage of the finances. You sound frugal enough, but is she?

#1. cut the damn pudding and dessert out. Nevermind the price, you don't understand the harm you're causing your family in giving them sugar. Living on a low sugar allowance and definitely having no artificial sweeteners whatsoever, will ensure they don't get diabetes or an endocrine system issue later on. It will also keep them sharp and prevent them from having sugar lows.

You want a smart family who doesn't fall victim to insulin resistance and hormonal abuse, so plainly just don't do it. No desserts. Your bank account will thank you greatly, dessert is expensive.

Replace dessert with honey + bread. Peanut Butter & Jam. Their bodies will thank you and your profits may raise just due to diet alone.

[masterhapposai]

We have 2, both bought used, and keeping them for minimum 8-10 years. Our minivan before was for almost 9 an my other car I had for 14 years.

Cost of ownership, we budegt $100 a month for maintenance and repairs for both vehciles, etc. Insurance is insurance for them, unless we converted to 2 small hatchbacks, insurance isnt really easy to be changed. We do have all our insurance through one place and get huge discounts for that, good driving, claims, free, etc

Cell phones are $70 for both, just texting and phone. No data, no websurfing. And yes we still have a land line because how do we get ahold of the kids when they are home or how do they get a hold of us in an emergency.

Id like to get tid of the cells but with just the running around of 3 kids, it saves us time and money in the long run from missing things, or picking up someone or something that was forgotten, etc

Could we do without the cellphones, Im sure we would manage. But they have saved us a lot of time in the past from unneeded running around when things come up

#2. Replace both cell phones with pay as you go. Consider changing your home phone to a pay as you go phone too. So, 3 of them.

OR

get something like this:
http://publicmobile.ca/pmconsumer/

Unless I'm missing something, thats $15 x 3. $45 total. And probably $100+ to knock off your monthly bills. I know I'm throwing these things out fast and might be slightly inaccurate, but take it dead seriously, services like Public Mobile are cheap and you can't tell me you're talking for hours per day on the cell phone trying to avoid the extra costs of "missing things".

[masterhapposai]

For the food budget, Im not in charge of food.

Eggs we get from the next door farmer on the cheap, and sometimes free because they like our kids.



#3. Find out what exactly is being purchased for food and post it here. Then start dropping products and make everyone eat eggs every morning.

Your human requirement for protein will thank you.

Find things like this, and eat it every day. Hell, twice a day if you have to. Eggs are a super food and Doctors are idiots, they don't cause high cholesterol and some studies actually point at them raising your good cholesterol (HDL), not bad cholesterol (LDL), letting you eat even more of them. The cholesterol in Eggs are perfectly healthy and boost your natural hormones, thereby increasing your motivation and intelligence, possibly helping people in the family get better jobs.

Its a free source of food? cheap? USE IT A LOT.

Cereal/milk/etc.. is expensive and a waste of $ and time. Eat eggs and bread for breakfast.

[masterhapposai]

Beer and wings, who says we dont do that as well. Just sometimes, you need to get out, a change of scenery. Good for a person, and the way people make it sound that I do it every singlle day. Once every 2 months, really, thats whats causing this? Not the greedy oil companies charging $1.50 a litre for gas thats basically taking any wing and beer money I have and using it to make them selves rich

.

#4. You are to give your family a "Cheap beer, wings, board games and downloaded movie night"

When I was poor, this was my family thing. Obviously the kids won't drink beer. Buy a food that is on sale, such as Pizza, and fill them up with Grill Cheese sandwiches / Honey Bread / Peanut Butter & Jam sandwiches /etc.. then bust out the board games and watch a DOWNLOADED movie later on.

Sub in dominoes and other games.

If you have problems with the morality of downloading, well then the board games and Over The Air TV will suffice. But, you're going to seriously have to start questioning WHY you don't download entertainment, if you have a problem with it. It is key to poor people having a form of entertainment at home.

Done.

[masterhapposai]

A trip to Halifax this summer for a wedding we are members of and have been saving up for since the fall will be our first big vacation on 4 years, and we have cut back things just to save up for that, and will still be about $2000 short to take it after the flight is paid for. But its a promise we made to our best friends last fall when they asked us.



#5. Your friends, all of them, have to immediatly and instantly realize now that you're not in their salary bracket and can't participate in anything expensive they're doing.

We'll tell them why you're not going.

Kids remember things vividly. Events like that I'd remember for the rest of my life as "the day mommy and daddy sent us to the poor house, because they were trying to keep up with the Joneses":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeping_up_with_the_Joneses

Don't care what you promised. If your friends don't take this well, they're not your friends and its a sign that they're going to take you down in the long run. My friends understood, and so will yours, IF they're your real "best friends". You'll find out soon enough.

#5 applies to all of the below. I think you retain these things for social status. They're definitely not required to have a good time, see #4 for how to have a good time and keep the family even tighter than before.


our camping trailer and our car.

Cut em. Unless one of you loses your job for not having 2 cars, toss 1. The trailer, immediately toss it.


Do we start selling things we enjoy.

Yes. See #4 and do things that are enjoyable and don't put you in more debt.


I have a quad we use alot, do I sell it

Absolutely sell it.


, do I sell my little 12 Ft aluminum fishing boat that cost me $100.

If Fishing is costing $ or maintaining this $100 boat does, or you're paying for things related to this boat, sell it and stop it.


Do we move to a cheaper house back to the city.

100% Especially if it means less gas mileage


Do we totally cancel things like our cell-phone or the dish.

Long time ago. Shocked you even have these when its a major dent in your bills.


I look at our budget and I cant seem to find anything to cut that will even come close to an extra $300.

I found tons, probably giving you $1000 back or more.


Do we not put away for retirement anymore?

Retirement doesn't help you now whatsoever. Meanwhile your debt mounts. Take all retirement funds (unless its RRSP and will affect income tax) and put it into paying off debt and mortgage. CPP from your pay checks will fund youre retirement just fine, until you start getting enough for RRSPs/etc. again.


every Friday to a slush thats costs us $6 a week (not every week either)

Make your own.


hell, I dont even go to the movie anymore unless I have enough point on my scene card or a GC, just because I dont have the money.

What? You don't download movies? This is a family event too.


but what happens when you are cut back as much as you can and cant cut anymore?

Plenty to cut back.



As I said to my wife last night, I think the man upstairs always wants me to be poor.

He probably wants your family to spend more time together in the house, not fishing, or in a camping trailer, or going out to a movie, or eating slushies outside. Have more talks with your family using advice from #4, and they can be fun niights.

[trini]

GET RID OF THE PET!
Get rid of cable, borrow movies from the library and use OTA antenna.
Good luck and all the best, it could be worse.

[masterhapposai]

Tonight we are going over the gorcery budget and see what can be cut. Maybe the kids and I drink half a glass of milk instead of a full one. Actually I bet I myself out eat your 3 grown men per day. With the amount I do and move around, my body needs to be constantly fed. No one that has ever seen me eat can beleive the amount of calories and food I consume per day, And my other 2 sons are right behind me. Its hard to compare grocery budgets when you dont know a families eating habits.

#6. You are to start understanding science and how the body actually works. Use it to your advantage to save $. End Goal : Eat Less.

You can slow down your metabolism by simply eating at larger intervals. You'll be hungry for a few days, get over it, then start gaining weight and wonder why you didn't do this before. This is how the body works.

Put up with the pain for the short term, for the long term benefits. I know people that would eat only at 6pm, or 9pm. As long as you space the food eating out to 4+ hrs between gaps your metabolism should slow down.

Look up the Spartan diet, there are variations of it that cause your metabolism to really slow down and make you less hungry.

Until you get accustomed to this, you can sub-in water + honey or even kool aid (preferably honey), in between meals.

[masterhapposai]

GET RID OF THE PET!
Get rid of cable, borrow movies from the library and use OTA antenna.
Good luck and all the best, it could be worse.

ehhh, the pets the least of his worries, but yes its an expense and a big time budget risk.

That being said, I had pets when I was poor. And I had (have) no pets when I'm doing well.

[ItemFinder]

What do you and your wife make combined? Your wife is a teacher and you're in IT. You should not be hurting for money. I personally make enough to afford 3 children, so two incomes should be more than enough.

[masterhapposai]

What do you and your wife make combined? Your wife is a teacher and you're in IT. You should not be hurting for money. I personally make enough to afford 3 children, so two incomes should be more than enough.

I'm guessing he makes 47k and his wife about 55k. I tried to estimate based on what he's said in the thread.

If its more than that I'm going to have a heart attack.

I've seen and know single moms who raise 3 kids on a < $20k income.

[trilinearmipmap]

I don't want to lecture this guy because I am not in his shoes but a couple of points come up.

One is, the things we see now as "necessities" didn't even exist or were extreme luxuries when I was growing up. Somehow I didn't feel deprived having 3 channels (over-the-air) of black and white TV for the first 20 years of my life. There was no such thing as internet or cell phones. We were considered a middle-class family but the life we lived back then would be considered borderline poverty now.

The second point is the people telling this guy to ditch everything are not being realistic. Ditch the things that have ongoing monthly bills (cell, satellite TV, internet). Things like a fishing boat or camping trailer don't have much ongoing cost associated with them. What exactly is this guy supposed to do with his time after all his electronics are turned off? It is a lot healthier for his family and kids to spend time camping, fishing etc. rather than plugged into various electronic distractions.

If the OP ditched internet/satellite/cell he would provide what was considered a normal healthy middle class existence back in the 1970's.

[ItemFinder]

I'm guessing he makes 47k and his wife about 55k. I tried to estimate based on what he's said in the thread.

If its more than that I'm going to have a heart attack.

I've seen and know single moms who raise 3 kids on a < $20k income.
This is exactly why he deserves no pity. 100k and you can't raise 3 kids? Big failure IMHO.

[gman]

I would cut the boat, cut the camping trailor and cut the pet (if emotionally possible). Find a cheaper place for a the brace. It may not be the best but does it have to be?

[Gloaming]

Coming from an actual Dentist: Just don't do the braces. Braces are a OPTIONAL treatment with a primary focus on esthetics- NOT function. If braces are so important to your kids, they can get a part time job when they are teens and help pay for them. You should never overextend yourself for a non-essential treatment.

[sauga79]

OP, you are under no moral obligation or parental obligation to give your kids braces.

My parents didn't have the means to buy me braces so I went through high school without smiling. It really affect my self-esteem to see so many confident people around me and I was so insecure. So like any of my friends in school they took up part-time jobs. They saved their money to buy nice things for themselves like a car. Whereas I saved up my money for braces.

It changed me in two ways 1) I was a brand new me. I was totally different person. I became more social and outgoing and I wasn't shy to smile. 2) A sense of great accomplishment that the most expensive 4-figure purchase I made at 19 was braces. It could not have come at a better time as ppl who wore them before me had to where them for like 2-3 years and I had to wear mines for only 18 months. Let me tell you, I had some buck tooth, f'd up vampire teeth going on. Before they could do anything, they needed to remove my 4 wisdom teeth so that the teeth could be pushed to the back to spread out the crowding.

Anyways, don't put it on yourself that you need to provide everything and anything they need. Your child won't die if they don't get their teeth done. But hopefully they are smart enough and determined enough like myself to realize parents can only do so much. Hopefully your child is smart enough to realize that they are capable of making their own coin and you can guide them to spend it on things they need instead of those things every child at that age wants.

[Spidey]

GET RID OF THE PET!
Get rid of cable, borrow movies from the library and use OTA antenna.
Good luck and all the best, it could be worse.

Boy, its just that easy. Just get rid of them, who cares about the kids or us. Just gone.

We took a commitement when we got the pets to keep them, not give them to the SPCA Our dog was a rescued dog, not one bought at a store.

And our cats our mousers so we dont have mice in the house or garage. They earn their keep

Any movie we watch is from the library, we have recented in age. And if we ever do rent, its from the safeway kiosk for $1.89. And the last time we did that was 4 months ago.

Dish is on the way out, and might just keep Netflix for our tv entertainment

[sauga79]

...and once you get over that braces hurdle, there is post-secondary education as well. Once I learned I was capable of making my own money, I funded my own education. My parents could only afford to send me that first year. I was up the creek without a paddle when I asked them for money for 2nd year. I need to fix this problem myself, my way, with my own means.

[gman]

Boy, its just that easy. Just get rid of them, who cares about the kids or us. Just gone.

We took a commitement when we got the pets to keep them, not give them to the SPCA Our dog was a rescued dog, not one bought at a store.

And our cats our mousers so we dont have mice in the house or garage. They earn their keep

Any movie we watch is from the library, we have recented in age. And if we ever do rent, its from the safeway kiosk for $1.89. And the last time we did that was 4 months ago.

Dish is on the way out, and might just keep Netflix for our tv entertainment

Pet is expensive and you have pets. It appears you really can't afford to have pets. You have only that many choices. Either cut something out or earn more money.

[Spidey]

Pet is expensive and you have pets. It appears you really can't afford to have pets. You have only that many choices. Either cut something out or earn more money.

Thats what Ive explained many times, Im going to make more money

[gman]

Thats what Ive explained many times, Im going to make more money

In that case, problem solved.

[gman]

Our bank plan is unlimeted transactions so we dont get dinged those extra charges. We pay $13 a month for that, but for the amount of transactions and online bill payments we do, its paid for itself. We could mvoed banks to like PC Financial, but Ive been with BMO for almsot 35 years now, so hard to leave when I get a lot of extra charges waved when I have to do other stuff.


Get a line of credit so that you can save that $13 per month and have the same kind of service.

[sauga79]

also, don't forget to use mad rfd skills and do your research on the orthodontist and the braces they employ. Check for prices around town or even out of town. Some specialist might be more sympathetic with your situation. Keep in mind though once the braces are on, you have to visit like once a month to have them make adjustments so going the distance may not totally be favorable.

I think some parents get shafted for using older technology when the dental team knows they are gonna get paid regardless through 3rd party insurer. my dentists was quite nice to ask if I had coverage or not. They gave me a lower invoice when I told them i had no coverage. Then when i started working a job with benefits, damn dentals bills sky rocketed cause they knew i wasn't paying for it out of my pocket.

[sauga79]

Get a line of credit so that you can save that $13 per month and have the same kind of service.

I second that. BMO (or a lot of banks IMO) does not offer the same value as PCF does. Every year that goes by with PCF I make money by saving money through charges and/or groceries.

[gman]

I second that. BMO (or a lot of banks IMO) does not offer the same value as PCF does. Every year that goes by with PCF I make money by saving money through charges and/or groceries.

Not exactly what I mean. I mean to ask him to get a BMO LOC and stay using BMO service without paying $13.
I am not sure if it is do-able in BMO but I have been doing that for over 15 years in CIBC.

[ItemFinder]

I think this needs to be said: if you don't give your child braces, you're a lousy parent.

[Octavius]

Before starting, I'll say up front that I'm not a parent. Still, I don't think this means my suggestions should be disregarded on this basis.

I noticed in your first post that you and your wife make contributions to an RRSP and/or "paying yourself first". While this is a great principle to follow, frankly, your current financial situation makes it difficult (if not impossible) to continue on with this practice with the advent of this new expense looming over your head. While your wife, as a teacher, may not have an option as to whether or not to pay into the pension, you and your wife do with an RRSP.

Until you pay off the braces or until you get more income coming in, you should seriously consider stopping this practice. While in 30-40 years from now the compound interest gained from the funds put in today will result in a lot more available savings for you, the fact of the matter is that you don't really have a lot of options here. You need the money TODAY, NOW, not in decades from now.

Alternatively, and I know you mentioned you didn't want to do this earlier, you should look into a HELOC. It's 7k at worst, and that's before a downpayment and any benefits covered through your work and your wife's work. Refuse to go into the HELOC for anything else; if you're diligent enough to operate the household the way you have, you should be able to use the HELOC for the braces and only the braces - and to pay it off when you can.

And of course, cut the cable. That's totally an unnecessary expense, especially with the internet having more and more TV shows available for streaming.

If all else fails, get a second job. It'll suck, but sometimes we have to do stuff we really don't want to do.

Best of luck.

[Spidey]

I think this needs to be said: if you don't give your child braces, you're a lousy parent.

Never said i wasnt going to, but am I going to get a second opinion and see if there are other cheaper options than braces. if he needs them, he needs them. We arent going to deny him having them if he needs them. I just want to 100% make sure he does is all

[Spidey]

also, don't forget to use mad rfd skills and do your research on the orthodontist and the braces they employ. Check for prices around town or even out of town. Some specialist might be more sympathetic with your situation. Keep in mind though once the braces are on, you have to visit like once a month to have them make adjustments so going the distance may not totally be favorable.

I think some parents get shafted for using older technology when the dental team knows they are gonna get paid regardless through 3rd party insurer. my dentists was quite nice to ask if I had coverage or not. They gave me a lower invoice when I told them i had no coverage. Then when i started working a job with benefits, damn dentals bills sky rocketed cause they knew i wasn't paying for it out of my pocket.

Im defintly shopping around, and already found out this same otrhodontist charged $1500 more from another one in another ciry 2.5 hours away for the same procedure. So while I wont go 2.5 hours for that, I will defintly try to get him to price match, and explain to me why.

I wish before hand they didnt know we had coverage, whenever they find that out, they always charge more. I wish we said now, got the quote, and then said, of Ya I just got coverage.

So if dentists arent greedy, why do any of their procedures go up in price when you have coverage

[Spidey]

...and once you get over that braces hurdle, there is post-secondary education as well. Once I learned I was capable of making my own money, I funded my own education. My parents could only afford to send me that first year. I was up the creek without a paddle when I asked them for money for 2nd year. I need to fix this problem myself, my way, with my own means.

We already save for their education at $60 a month each into RESPS. We get government grants with that as well. We have been doing that since they were born.

While it may or may not cover their education, it will help them start out. But thats all they will get from us, no more, no less. They will have to figure out the rest their own way.

[Spidey]

Coming from an actual Dentist: Just don't do the braces. Braces are a OPTIONAL treatment with a primary focus on esthetics- NOT function. If braces are so important to your kids, they can get a part time job when they are teens and help pay for them. You should never overextend yourself for a non-essential treatment.

Not all braces are for that, some correct biting issues as well. Im defintly researching more before we say yes or no

[Spidey]

I would cut the boat, cut the camping trailer and cut the pet (if emotionally possible). Find a cheaper place for a the brace. It may not be the best but does it have to be?

Trailer, its being talked about

Boat, what for. It costs me nothing just sitting there. So why get rid of it.

Pets, like Ive mentioned, cats are for mousing. They pay for themselves just with that.

Dog, sure, we could get rid of her. Fair to the family, nope. Not to save a few bucks. While many on here think I'm a crappy pet owner because we buy her whatever on sale for food, and get the minimum shots required for her. So we get rid of her and put more strain on the unwanted animals at the SPCA? Or worse off, she gets put down

[Spidey]

Before starting, I'll say up front that I'm not a parent. Still, I don't think this means my suggestions should be disregarded on this basis.

I noticed in your first post that you and your wife make contributions to an RRSP and/or "paying yourself first". While this is a great principle to follow, frankly, your current financial situation makes it difficult (if not impossible) to continue on with this practice with the advent of this new expense looming over your head. While your wife, as a teacher, may not have an option as to whether or not to pay into the pension, you and your wife do with an RRSP.

Until you pay off the braces or until you get more income coming in, you should seriously consider stopping this practice. While in 30-40 years from now the compound interest gained from the funds put in today will result in a lot more available savings for you, the fact of the matter is that you don't really have a lot of options here. You need the money TODAY, NOW, not in decades from now.

Alternatively, and I know you mentioned you didn't want to do this earlier, you should look into a HELOC. It's 7k at worst, and that's before a downpayment and any benefits covered through your work and your wife's work. Refuse to go into the HELOC for anything else; if you're diligent enough to operate the household the way you have, you should be able to use the HELOC for the braces and only the braces - and to pay it off when you can.

And of course, cut the cable. That's totally an unnecessary expense, especially with the internet having more and more TV shows available for streaming.

If all else fails, get a second job. It'll suck, but sometimes we have to do stuff we really don't want to do.

Best of luck.

Have been thinking this to, but Im going to push for more work.

Alot of ideas on here contradict others, while this one is good, other people say always pay yourself first no matter what.

[Spidey]

I don't want to lecture this guy because I am not in his shoes but a couple of points come up.

One is, the things we see now as "necessities" didn't even exist or were extreme luxuries when I was growing up. Somehow I didn't feel deprived having 3 channels (over-the-air) of black and white TV for the first 20 years of my life. There was no such thing as internet or cell phones. We were considered a middle-class family but the life we lived back then would be considered borderline poverty now.

The second point is the people telling this guy to ditch everything are not being realistic. Ditch the things that have ongoing monthly bills (cell, satellite TV, internet). Things like a fishing boat or camping trailer don't have much ongoing cost associated with them. What exactly is this guy supposed to do with his time after all his electronics are turned off? It is a lot healthier for his family and kids to spend time camping, fishing etc. rather than plugged into various electronic distractions.

If the OP ditched internet/satellite/cell he would provide what was considered a normal healthy middle class existence back in the 1970's.

Oh I know all about that, theres some definite things that we think are needed today that didnt even exist back then.

Internet is it a want or a need. Well I use it for work, but does that mean its needed?

As for ditching everything, Im a little with you on this. I k now we can cut back on a lot of small things like sattelite, cell phones, net flix, etc. B ut like you said, if we get of out other family entertainment like the boat and fishing (and its a 12 ft aliminum boat, not a 30 foot ski boat) then what do we do. Its something we like to do as a fmaily, so whats wrong with having it. If I dont use it, its not costing me a dime to have it.

Are we a plugged in family, hard to say. Compared to many we barely are from the threads on here about Iphones and needing a data plan to have everything at your fingertips. My kids dont even have email, just at school. And they are barely on the internet at home anyway

[taylyn]

Coming from an actual Dentist: Just don't do the braces. Braces are a OPTIONAL treatment with a primary focus on esthetics- NOT function. If braces are so important to your kids, they can get a part time job when they are teens and help pay for them. You should never overextend yourself for a non-essential treatment.

That's just not true.

[Spidey]

#5. Your friends, all of them, have to immediatly and instantly realize now that you're not in their salary bracket and can't participate in anything expensive they're doing.

We'll tell them why you're not going.

Kids remember things vividly. Events like that I'd remember for the rest of my life as "the day mommy and daddy sent us to the poor house, because they were trying to keep up with the Joneses":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeping_up_with_the_Joneses

Don't care what you promised. If your friends don't take this well, they're not your friends and its a sign that they're going to take you down in the long run. My friends understood, and so will yours, IF they're your real "best friends". You'll find out soon enough.

#5 applies to all of the below. I think you retain these things for social status. They're definitely not required to have a good time, see #4 for how to have a good time and keep the family even tighter than before.



Cut em. Unless one of you loses your job for not having 2 cars, toss 1. The trailer, immediately toss it.



Yes. See #4 and do things that are enjoyable and don't put you in more debt.



Absolutely sell it.



If Fishing is costing $ or maintaining this $100 boat does, or you're paying for things related to this boat, sell it and stop it.



100% Especially if it means less gas mileage



Long time ago. Shocked you even have these when its a major dent in your bills.



I found tons, probably giving you $1000 back or more.



Retirement doesn't help you now whatsoever. Meanwhile your debt mounts. Take all retirement funds (unless its RRSP and will affect income tax) and put it into paying off debt and mortgage. CPP from your pay checks will fund youre retirement just fine, until you start getting enough for RRSPs/etc. again.



Make your own.



What? You don't download movies? This is a family event too.



Plenty to cut back.



He probably wants your family to spend more time together in the house, not fishing, or in a camping trailer, or going out to a movie, or eating slushies outside. Have more talks with your family using advice from #4, and they can be fun niights.


Thanks for all the tips. Do some already, will be doing some others, and not doing some others you mentioned.

The way people type om here, Im amazed that some seem to never ever spend money on anything thats not life related. They never ever seem to go out, never spend one dime on anythign extra, never enjoy a coffee or beer, or a movie, like ever. Do you always say no to everyone that asks you to go do something that costs money, even a few dollars. If so I call you a liar, because while you can do tons for free, and we do, there is times you have to go spend money on entertainment, even $5. Or are you ok with going out and your friends or family paying for everything.

Im into cutting back to make things work, but if I can have an evening out for $3.50, then Ill do it. If it was for $35, then I would of said no. But I collect scene points for tyhis reason, so I can see movies for free. This was the first movie since the fall I went to, and that and the hour after was $3.50 Pretty good deal to get out of the house and be with some friends for awhile.

This poster said I should of gone to the movie with my friends but donwload it instead. So its ok to be cheap and do things that are illegal. Its a gray area, but where do you draw the line. Family movie nighst are at home and are free, by either borrowed movies or movies from the library.

There has to be a balance, you cant always not spend money all the time. And while I dont have any daily habits that cost me money, Im not going to deny myself going out a few times a year to save $60 the entire year.


Thanks for everyones help. This thread is just going in circles now, and I got some good ideas from it. Does that mean I will be doing them all, not at all. Defintly not selling my boat, thats time with my family I enjoy. My kids and I enjoy fishing, and for the cost of a fishing license a year and some gas thats worth it to me.

But you just say sell them, sell everything we own. I know living in the city you dont understand the concept of outdoor activities, but the things we own like that our used for entertainment as well as for utilitarian purposed. The quad, sell it, then shovel snow for 5-6 hours after each major snowfall. Sell the boat, yet you keep saying eat food thats free. If we go out fishing and bring back our limits, we have free food right there. I dont sport fish, I go out to spend time with my kids and as well to have fish to eat, because we like it. And if we dont fish, having the boat doesnt cost me a thing sitting there.

Trailer is potentially on the chopping block, but we sell that, but then thats our family vacation gone each year. I know alot on here dont "get" camping, they think its a waste of time and resources. Thats fine, but many families in the country enjoy it as a family outing. Sorry alot of people that arent into the outdoors dont understand that, but not all of us were born and raised in the city.

I do love your comment about the man above wants us to spend more time in the house. Really, why. Like everyone doesnt spend enough time indoors these days. Parents in the office all day, kids in school all day, just to go home and stay inside some more. Why wouldnt I want to get away from the house and go fishing with my kids on a Saturday? You may be fine by being a shut-in, Im defintly not. You make it sound like its bad to spend time outside of the house with my family

[Spidey]

#2. Replace both cell phones with pay as you go. Consider changing your home phone to a pay as you go phone too. So, 3 of them.

OR

get something like this:
http://publicmobile.ca/pmconsumer/

Unless I'm missing something, thats $15 x 3. $45 total. And probably $100+ to knock off your monthly bills. I know I'm throwing these things out fast and might be slightly inaccurate, but take it dead seriously, services like Public Mobile are cheap and you can't tell me you're talking for hours per day on the cell phone trying to avoid the extra costs of "missing things".

Do people not read where Im from under my avatar?

Your throwing out stuff for out east if Im not mistaken? Public mobile doesnt exist out here according to their coverage maps

Pay as you go would work, on contract though. So a pay out is in order to get out, is it worth it to pay out to save the monthyl fee?

[Spidey]

#3. Find out what exactly is being purchased for food and post it here. Then start dropping products and make everyone eat eggs every morning.

Your human requirement for protein will thank you.

Find things like this, and eat it every day. Hell, twice a day if you have to. Eggs are a super food and Doctors are idiots, they don't cause high cholesterol and some studies actually point at them raising your good cholesterol (HDL), not bad cholesterol (LDL), letting you eat even more of them. The cholesterol in Eggs are perfectly healthy and boost your natural hormones, thereby increasing your motivation and intelligence, possibly helping people in the family get better jobs.

Its a free source of food? cheap? USE IT A LOT.

Cereal/milk/etc.. is expensive and a waste of $ and time. Eat eggs and bread for breakfast.

How is milk a waste of time and money? How is something that is good for you a waste of time. Who says we dont eat eggs at breakfast. Kids are alwatys mixing it uo each day from toast one day to eggs the next day.

How about you eat the same free thing day in and day out for weeks on end and see how you like it. Do-able, yep, but Im also not getting free eggs all the time either.

Whats with the motivation and intellegence crap your throwing around above? Your telling me im not motivated or smart? I defitnyl dont need a lecture from you on how to eat healthy, while everyones out there eating fast food we are having balance meals at home.

[Spidey]

#4. You are to give your family a "Cheap beer, wings, board games and downloaded movie night"

When I was poor, this was my family thing. Obviously the kids won't drink beer. Buy a food that is on sale, such as Pizza, and fill them up with Grill Cheese sandwiches / Honey Bread / Peanut Butter & Jam sandwiches /etc.. then bust out the board games and watch a DOWNLOADED movie later on.

Sub in dominoes and other games.

If you have problems with the morality of downloading, well then the board games and Over The Air TV will suffice. But, you're going to seriously have to start questioning WHY you don't download entertainment, if you have a problem with it. It is key to poor people having a form of entertainment at home.

Done.

Ive mentioned already numerous times we do many things as a family for free. Friday nights are movie night, costs us nothing except a bowl or two of popcorn. And the movies are free from the library for the most part. Sometimes its board game night, or other entertainment we have around the house

WHY I dont download, not sure. Could I ya, but where the line drawn between saving money and doing stuff illegal (grey area illegal) What am I teaching my kids, thats its OK to do that at the cost of saving a few dollars.

[dekay]

While i've never had to worry about money to the extent of the OP, some of the things people are telling him to cut are to the point that he'll be happier slitting his wrists. :confused:

OP clearly is the outdoorsie type, and deems some of these activities as essential for him and his family. Selling his boat/trailers etc. now and having him buying something comparable later when times are better (and probably at a higher cost) makes little sense to me. Repeating what I originally said, increase your income. Though I'd recommend just getting a part time job whether it'd be McDonalds or whatever. The hours/shifts are set and the income stream is consistent. Unlike your business where you'd have to put X amount of money back into it and spend Y amount of time self-marketing (which you probably did not include when you calculate your $/hr).

[Spidey]

While i've never had to worry about money to the extent of the OP, some of the things people are telling him to cut are to the point that he'll be happier slitting his wrists. :confused:

OP clearly is the outdoorsie type, and deems some of these activities as essential for him and his family. Selling his boat/trailers etc. now and having him buying something comparable later when times are better (and probably at a higher cost) makes little sense to me. Repeating what I originally said, increase your income. Though I'd recommend just getting a part time job whether it'd be McDonalds or whatever. The hours/shifts are set and the income stream is consistent. Unlike your business where you'd have to put X amount of money back into it and spend Y amount of time self-marketing (which you probably did not include when you calculate your $/hr).

I know if I sell my boat/trailer/electric motor I would never be able to find abother for $100. Expecially a trailer that was prewired and just needed a new tire. I could sell it and make money, but I wouldnt be able to stumble across a deal like that ever again as long as I live.

Having it "sit" costs me nothing. Plus many have pushed the free food thing. Well right there is free food when we go fishing

[ItemFinder]

Are you a big guy? Are your children big too? You mentioned you have a high metabolism, but you also eat a lot. So are you fat?

[Spidey]

Are you a big guy? Are your children big too? You mentioned you have a high metabolism, but you also eat a lot. So are you fat?

Nope and nope. Thats what high metobilism means, you stay thin.

While I excercise as well, its not to lose weight. Its to maintain what I have now and to be in shape for things I like to do. Kids are active as well outside, they arent couch potatoes

[1maybe2]

I think it's easy to tell OP to cut this and cut that without actually being in his shoes. He isn't saying that he won't cut it, he is just hoping that he can find ways to balance his finances so that he can accommodate for this new expense (braces). In the OP's defense, I think that it would be a little unfair for him to cut out ALL the little luxuries in his family's life like the boat, netflix, and pets. Remember that he isn't the only one that uses these things, he has a family too. We tell Spidey to lose all these things so his child doesn’t lose out on braces, but in the end his child will lose out on other things in his childhood, like fishing in his boat with his dad, and having movie night with his family, or bonding with his pets. It’s not just Spidey that has to lose this activities, it’s the rest of his family too. I think that when we put that into perspective, you’ll see how he has to think of not just himself, but the rest of his family’s needs as well.

[Spidey]

I think it's easy to tell OP to cut this and cut that without actually being in his shoes. He isn't saying that he won't cut it, he is just hoping that he can find ways to balance his finances so that he can accommodate for this new expense (braces). In the OP's defense, I think that it would be a little unfair for him to cut out ALL the little luxuries in his family's life like the boat, netflix, and pets. Remember that he isn't the only one that uses these things, he has a family too. We tell Spidey to lose all these things so his child doesn’t lose out on braces, but in the end his child will lose out on other things in his childhood, like fishing in his boat with his dad, and having movie night with his family, or bonding with his pets. It’s not just Spidey that has to lose this activities, it’s the rest of his family too. I think that when we put that into perspective, you’ll see how he has to think of not just himself, but the rest of his family’s needs as well.

Nice to see somone put it into perspective. As a family, we do cut and do stuff on the free as much as we can.

The dog, nothing beats seeing a boy and his dog playing in the backyard, or all the kids for that matter. If we got rid of her to save a few bucks to pay for braces, he will totally hate having braces I guarantee it. It teaches are kids responsibility as well with walking, feeding, etc.

Im not looking for an entire lifestyle change, many have mentioned sell my house and move back to the city. Thats not what this is about, I want to find ways to make room for this extra expense, not totally change the way we live and our location.

Our kids go without alot as it is compared to their friends. No name brand clothes, no cell phones, no fast food, no movie nights, etc. Is that going without, not really. Going without is not having food in the fridge. In theory if we want, sell all our electronics too. They are costing us money too in power. That would save us money, but you cant go your entire life not spending money.

Internet, sure I could get rid of it. But its used daily, kids use it to access their school emails for school projects, we use it for skype to talk to friends and family, use it to stay in touch and communication. So with that save $42 a month, but at the cost of what? Im setting up a family reunion for the past 3 years, and the mail communication has been email. For what Ive emailed out I would of had to spend hundreds in postage and paper to get the same info out by email.

Of all the ones that say cut, would you cut your internet? I bet anything else would go first before that

Im trying to find a balance that basically doesnt uproot what we have, not to have a complete lifestyle change that involves not doing family things we enjoy, and for us to live back in the city. I hated living in the city, so we move back to maybe save, and hate where I live

[Lone_Prodigy]

You say that you don't want a complete lifestyle change for "just braces", but even if the braces hadn't come up, you still sound like you're barely scraping by. Living paycheque to paycheque isn't sustainable: you need to save for a rainy day. You're planning a big trip to Halifax this summer that will be your one vacation in years and you still don't have enough money for it. You're setting up a family reunion: how much is that going to cost?

What if another child needs braces? How will you budget for that?

[SirloinofBeef]

Didn't read the whole thread. In the OP you mentioned that you paid yourselves first and were on salary. If you set up automatic contributions to a personal RRSP (not group) you can increase your monthly cash flow and forgo the annual tax refund by filling in Form T1213 (http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pbg/tf/t1213/). Your taxes get reduced because your HR dept recalculates the salary after taking into consideration the RRSP contributions. There are other items that are eligible too like childcare and charity. I did this out of spite this year for giving the government a tax free loan year after year and am very happy to see a higher take home pay.

[Spidey]

You say that you don't want a complete lifestyle change for "just braces", but even if the braces hadn't come up, you still sound like you're barely scraping by. Living paycheque to paycheque isn't sustainable: you need to save for a rainy day. You're planning a big trip to Halifax this summer that will be your one vacation in years and you still don't have enough money for it. You're setting up a family reunion: how much is that going to cost?

What if another child needs braces? How will you budget for that?

Family reunion, not costing me anything but time. Its somethign thats been going on every 3 years since 1970. i stepped up to plate to take of it this time. Its all being paid for by family members, etc. In fact its saving me money by doing it since I dont have to pay for anything with my registration fees.

Do you think when someone sets up a family reunion the person hosting foots the whole bill? Ive never heard of that ever

Who says we dont have a rainy day fund? We do, we put away for it every month, for either job loss, or if something major comes up. We have it capped at a certain amount, because you cant save for every situation in life.

as for the vacation, thats right, we didnt have $5000 just sitting around in our vacation fund. if you do, thats great. We budget for trips every payday as well, just not on this one.

Would the money we have been saving for this been used for something else. probably, anything you spend on thats not for survival is money you can spend elsewhere.

What if another one needs braces, then we deal with it as it comes up. what if, what if, what if/ If a person planned and saved for every what if in life, you wouldnt have a dime to your name for yourself

[Spidey]

Didn't read the whole thread. In the OP you mentioned that you paid yourselves first and were on salary. If you set up automatic contributions to a personal RRSP (not group) you can increase your monthly cash flow and forgo the annual tax refund by filling in Form T1213 (http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pbg/tf/t1213/). Your taxes get reduced because your HR dept recalculates the salary after taking into consideration the RRSP contributions. There are other items that are eligible too like childcare and charity. I did this out of spite this year for giving the government a tax free loan year after year and am very happy to see a higher take home pay.

That is a good idea. We do get a tax refund every year, but it usualy goes on the mortage, or the trailer lately to get it paid off.

Thats true, they use your money for free. In theory its almost better to owe them a little bit each year.

Have to look into this. Thanks

[poedua]

Nice to see somone put it into perspective. As a family, we do cut and do stuff on the free as much as we can.

The dog, nothing beats seeing a boy and his dog playing in the backyard, or all the kids for that matter. If we got rid of her to save a few bucks to pay for braces, he will totally hate having braces I guarantee it. It teaches are kids responsibility as well with walking, feeding, etc.

How much does this dog cost you - vet visits, shots, insurance, licence, food etc. - each year ?

[poedua]

I would cut the boat, cut the camping trailor and cut the pet (if emotionally possible). Find a cheaper place for a the brace. It may not be the best but does it have to be?

Not a bad idea.

Unlike braces for your kids ...they're a ' nice to have '....not a ' have to have ' IMO.

Would also remove the necessity of owning a large vehicle capable of towing them.

[Spidey]

Not a bad idea.

Unlike braces for your kids ...they're a ' nice to have '....not a ' have to have ' IMO.

Would also remove the necessity of owning a large vehicle capable of towing them.

Trailer, I will admit costs us each month, in insurance and a payment.

Boat though, no ones explained to me why. Why sell a paid off item ($100) when its costing me nothing just sitting there. Doesnt cost me insurance or plates.

My large vehicle to tow is a mid sized Frontier. I didnt need a big truck so I never bought one. And if I get rid of that, how do we get out of the house in a bad storm without a 4 x 4. or how do I haul water for the house without a truck. I use my truck as a truck, it hauls, it tows, etc. Its not a city truck that nevers see gravek

I know a lot dont understand whats its like to live out of the city. Its just not black and white. Water is needed, and hauling it myself saves me a lot. My water bill is way less than anyones in the city because there is no middle man

[Spidey]

How much does this dog cost you - vet visits, shots, insurance, licence, food etc. - each year ?

Insurance? Sorry I dont insure my pets, if they get majorly hurt or sick that will cost thousands, guess what happens, what happened on the farm, put down. Does that mean Im a terrible pet owner because I dont insure them? Wheres the line drawn for being a good pet owner and saving money? Cats, nothing is ever done to them. Just worm pills every six months.

Shots I guess for the dog have been about $40 a year. License is free as long as the dog is fixed. We put away $25 each a month for the pets, be it for food, worm pills, or vet visits.

So I guess that would be $600 total a year for the pets with everything

Cats cost a little more last month as I got them both fixed at $90 a shot. But wanted to be responsible and not have them making more cats. Not something I wanted to do at the cost, but had to. That was covvered by the access in the pet fund (almost)

As Ive said before, country pets are treated differently than city pets. Cat teeth cleaning, really?

[Blvck_Scvle]

I really didn't want to get re-involved in this discussion, but you sound like an awful pet owner. Family pets aren't supposed to be raised or treated like farm animals. It saddens me to hear of the way you treat your pets ... especially concerning the way you feed it. You can't sacrifice one extra hamburger at supper, but you toss whatever deal of the week food you can find at your pets? How do you think your pets enjoy eating their crappy bargain bin food that changes weekly or monthly? Minimum shots? Put them down if they become strapped with an expensive illness?

Your family pets are supposed to be part of the family. If you can't provide them with that type of care, maybe giving your pets up is a good alternative.

[Spidey]

I really didn't want to get re-involved in this discussion, but you sound like an awful pet owner. Family pets aren't supposed to be raised or treated like farm animals. It saddens me to hear of the way you treat your pets ... especially concerning the way you feed it. You can't sacrifice one extra hamburger at supper, but you toss whatever deal of the week food you can find at your pets? How do you think your pets enjoy eating their crappy bargain bin food that changes weekly or monthly? Minimum shots? Put them down if they become strapped with an expensive illness?

Your family pets are supposed to be part of the family. If you can't provide them with that type of care, maybe giving your pets up is a good alternative.

Well my pets are happy and healthy. They eat cheap dog and cat food, table scraps and meat scraps and bones. They arent frail, sick over weight or under weight. They get plenty of excercise each day.

We had pets growing up on the farm, and they were treated the same, and they all lived a long healthy life. If they got into anything major they were put down. Dog with a broken back from getting hit with a car, had to be put down. One dog got into a porcupine so bad she had quills down the back of her throat. Had to be put down.

Such is life, doesnt mean we are terrible pet owners because we wont spends thousands of dollars on our pets if they have cancer.

As for minimum shots, what are the minimum shots for a dog? One vets minimum differs from another. Ill take the word over a farm vet that deals with outside and farm dogs everyday, then any city vet,

And guess what, they are all outside pets as well. Is that wrong as well that animals live outside instead of the house. Thats the difference between rural and urban, face the facts. You think Im the only person in Canada that thinks this.

Sp what your saying is the more money you spend on a pet, the better owner you are? Whats the base cost a pet should be befroe you label the person a bad owner?

This is basically like the tipping crap for saving money. So now its not fine to save money this way. So if I mentioned that I spent tons of money on my pets, that would be ok?

So many contradictions in this thread alone, hard to follow anymore.

[Blvck_Scvle]

Well my pets are happy and healthy. They eat cheap dog and cat food, table scraps and meat scraps and bones. They arent frail, sick over weight or under weight.

We had pets growing up on the farm, and they were treated the same, and they all lived a long healthy life. If they got into anything major they were put down. Dog with a broken back from getting hit with a car, had to be put down. One dog got into a porcupine so bad she had quills down the back of her throat. Had to be put down.

Such is life, doesnt mean we are terrible pet owners because we wont spends thousands of dollars on our pets if they have cancer.

As for minimum shots, what are the minimum shots for a dog? One vets minimum differs from another. Ill take the word over a farm vet that deals with outside and farm dogs everyday, then any city vet,

And guess what, they are all outside pets as well. Is that wrong as well that animals live outside instead of the house

Thats the difference between rural and urban, face the facts. You think Im the only person in Canada that thinks this.

This is basically like the tipping crap for saving money. So now its not fine to save money this way

So many contradictions in this thread alone, hard to follow anymore.

At this point, I'm not really talking about you trying to save money. I'm more concerned with how you're skimping to provide yourself (and your pets) with this false sense of reality that you're actually capable of affording the lifestyle you're providing for yourself.

Everything you're trying to justify is only being justified because you can't afford the alternative. I don't believe you should be trying to provide for animals when you can't afford to offer them beyond the minimum. What happens in a week where you can't find any dog food on sale? Do they go hungry? Eat unhealthy human food?

[dekay]

I really didn't want to get re-involved in this discussion, but you sound like an awful pet owner. Family pets aren't supposed to be raised or treated like farm animals. It saddens me to hear of the way you treat your pets ... especially concerning the way you feed it. You can't sacrifice one extra hamburger at supper, but you toss whatever deal of the week food you can find at your pets? How do you think your pets enjoy eating their crappy bargain bin food that changes weekly or monthly? Minimum shots? Put them down if they become strapped with an expensive illness?

Your family pets are supposed to be part of the family. If you can't provide them with that type of care, maybe giving your pets up is a good alternative.

Should call child services and take away his kids too. The man refuses to decrease his kids food intake nor his $3 lottery spending per month. :facepalm:

[Spidey]

Should call child services and take away his kids too. The man refuses to decrease his kids food intake nor his $3 lottery spending per month. :facepalm:

Want my phone number and address to a$$hole. Make it easier for you to find me

Comments like this make me sick.

[dekay]

^
I guess I should've wrote /sarcasm. But nevermind . . .

[Spidey]

At this point, I'm not really talking about you trying to save money. I'm more concerned with how you're skimping to provide yourself (and your pets) with this false sense of reality that you're actually capable of affording the lifestyle you're providing for yourself.

Everything you're trying to justify is only being justified because you can't afford the alternative. I don't believe you should be trying to provide for animals when you can't afford to offer them beyond the minimum. What happens in a week where you can't find any dog food on sale? Do they go hungry? Eat unhealthy human food?

I dont buy food every week, I buyt it when they need it and running out. Thats why we budget for that and buy it when its on sale.

I also asked what your budget is for your family of 7, yet you didnt want to provide that. Why not, I asked a valid question about how you are managing with 7 people in your house with the cost of libing these days.

But who sets the minimum for pets, you? Vet says she is the perfect wieght, great muscle tone, great teeth, etc. So she only gets a couple of shots a year. Maybe she isnt around other animals like in the city. I get the shots with the situation we are in, not for some dog that goes to the kennel/.

My dog probably eats more meat in a month than most dogs on here from scraps from cooking and butchering animals. But no, everyone thinks you need to spen a firtune in name brand food for pets to be healthy.

[Spidey]

^
I guess I should've wrote /sarcasm. But nevermind . . .

Maybe you should of. That was over the line totally, you dont say that to a parent. And maybe read some more, I quit buying lotto tickets. And my kids come first at the table, if its the last of something and they are hungry and I am as well, they are eating before me

[poedua]

Trailer, I will admit costs us each month, in insurance and a payment.

Boat though, no ones explained to me why. Why sell a paid off item ($100) when its costing me nothing just sitting there. Doesnt cost me insurance or plates.

Assuming it's a power boat - the the cost of gas is relevant I suppose.

How often do you haul / use your boat / trailer a year ? How far do you haul it ?


My large vehicle to tow is a mid sized Frontier. I didnt need a big truck so I never bought one. And if I get rid of that, how do we get out of the house in a bad storm without a 4 x 4.

First of all, you don't need a 4 X 4 truck to get around in winter during a bad storm and if the storm is really bad - just stay at home. So, strictly from a winter driving context at least, a pick-up is simply a ' nice to have ' instead of a ' have to have ' IMO.


or how do I haul water for the house without a truck. I use my truck as a truck, it hauls, it tows, etc. Its not a city truck that nevers see gravek

What size of water container are you talking about, such that it can only be transported by a pick-up ?

And how many people does it take to unload a container of water ?

btw - what does your wife drive ?

[Blvck_Scvle]

Maybe you should of. That was over the line totally, you dont say that to a parent. And maybe read some more, I quit buying lotto tickets. And my kids come first at the table, if its the last of something and they are hungry and I am as well, they are eating before me

He was joking. :facepalm:

[Blvck_Scvle]

I dont buy food every week, I buyt it when they need it and running out. Thats why we budget for that and buy it when its on sale.

I also asked what your budget is for your family of 7, yet you didnt want to provide that. Why not, I asked a valid question about how you are managing with 7 people in your house with the cost of libing these days.

But who sets the minimum for pets, you? Vet says she is the perfect wieght, great muscle tone, great teeth, etc. So she only gets a couple of shots a year. Maybe she isnt around other animals like in the city. I get the shots with the situation we are in, not for some dog that goes to the kennel/.

My dog probably eats more meat in a month than most dogs on here from scraps from cooking and butchering animals. But no, everyone thinks you need to spen a firtune in name brand food for pets to be healthy.

I don't have a strict budget for my family to follow. We probably spend $200-250 a week on groceries and then we try to have one family meal out every 10-14 days (add another $100) and one meal for my wife and I during the week when we can meet for lunch or something ($50). Then I also have to pay for business lunches or whatever.

So my food budget monthly? Ballpark it at low end $1200, high end $1800 on a monthly basis.

[Spidey]

Assuming it's a power boat - the the cost of gas is relevant I suppose.

How often do you haul / use your boat / trailer a year ? How far do you haul it ?

Actually I only have an electic motor that came with it. I cant afford to buy an actual engine yet. And the battery I use for it is my old Die hard from my car that got trashed a few years ago. Use is varied on time, maybe 5 -6 times. Sometimes they go with the grandparents when things get busy. We travel maybe a maximum 60 miles one way, but thats not the norm. The one place we try mostly is onyl a few miles away

First of all, you don't need a 4 X 4 truck to get around in winter during a bad storm and if the storm is really bad - just stay at home. So, strictly from a winter driving context at least, a pick-up is simply a ' nice to have ' instead of a ' have to have ' IMO.
Well you need a 4 x 4 when you need a 4 x 4. While its not all the time, its gotten me out of situations before. And wether its a 4 x 4 truck, I still need a truck. No sense selling a 4 x 4 truck thats paid for a non 4 x 4 truck. Plus in the winter, I do need it when I haul water for traction on slopes, etc. So your "nice to have" is my "need to have", no two ways about it. if I lived in the city, I would agree with what you said, but I dont.

What size of water container are you talking about, such that it can only be transported by a pick-up ?

600 gallons, hauled on a water trailer. Only by a pickup, as it is Im almost pushing the limits of the truck I have now. I haul 2 load every second sunday at $3 a load, so $12 a month plus gas a month. If I got it hauled by someone, it would be $95 a month for water.

And how many people does it take to unload a container of water ?
None, just me, I back up to the outside cistern and run the pipe from the tank to the cistern and turn that tap. Takes about 1o minutes to unload

btw - what does your wife drive ?
We upgraded 2 years ago to a used taurus X after the minivan was ready to go. After 9 years it was time to move on, and with the things going on with the van, I didnt feel comfortbale having it as our long distance family vehicle. That we are making payments on,but at a low interest rate
..

[Spidey]

He was joking. :facepalm:

Maybe he should of put that then. Would you as a parent like it if someone came up to you and said theya re going to take your kids away because of the way you parent?

[Mrbj]

deleted - dont see any reason to keep it.

[Spidey]

I don't have a strict budget for my family to follow. We probably spend $200-250 a week on groceries and then we try to have one family meal out every 10-14 days (add another $100) and one meal for my wife and I during the week when we can meet for lunch or something ($50). Then I also have to pay for business lunches or whatever.

So my food budget monthly? Ballpark it at low end $1200, high end $1800 on a monthly basis.

wait a minute here, your at $1000 as well, and even higher with the take out, yet your saying our food budget is way to high for us and I shoudl eat less.

2 extra people or not, your budget is basically the same as mine, and even higher.

How does that work that mine food expenses are high according to you, but yours are fine

[Blvck_Scvle]

wait a minute here, your at $1000 as well, and even higher with the take out, yet your saying our food budget is way to high for us and I shoudl eat less.

2 extra people or not, your budget is basically the same as mine, and even higher.

How does that work that mine food expenses are high according to you, but yours are fine

To put it simply, because I can afford it and you can't.

I go out for lunches at restaurants. You shouldn't be.
I go out for dinners with my family. That can't be happening in your case.
I buy the food I like to eat and some of it is higher priced. You need to be buying what you can afford.

I don't mean to be rude, but this is what I can afford to do with my food budget. Your situation, unfortunately, does not allow you the same luxury.

[Spidey]

I can't believe I read that whole thing. I feel bad for those little kids who be going through all this and the parents who are not sure what the futures is gonna bring to their family. I wouldn't lose hope though - not gonna ask what did you do with that 25k you wont the other day..

Please explain what my kids are going through that makes you feel bad?

No parent ever knows what will happen to their family. Everything from sickness to death can happen. We as parents are planning for them as well as we can and supporting them as well as we know how.

The 25K I won the other day?????? That was 9 years ago.

We as well took a chance and moved to a new city with no jobs and no help, and made it here. So good on you for doing what you did

[Spidey]

To put it simply, because I can afford it and you can't.

I go out for lunches at restaurants. You shouldn't be. I and we dont. I dont know the last time I ate a lunch out. Just because i find it a pain in the but to wait in line.
I go out for dinners with my family. That can't be happening in your case. Dont spend enough a year for this to be an issue either. And we budget for it, of theres no money in that fund, we dont go out
I buy the food I like to eat and some of it is higher priced. You need to be buying what you can afford. So do we

I don't mean to be rude, but this is what I can afford to do with my food budget. Your situation, unfortunately, does not allow you the same luxury.Sure we can, and have. But with an extra $300 bill a month coming up, something have to be cut.

So tell me this, what will happen if every kid you have will get braces at 6K a pop. How will you deal with it, you have that much disposable income around to just deal with $36000 with no problem with the way your family lives on a day to day basis

[Blvck_Scvle]

So tell me this, what will happen if every kid you have will get braces at 6K a pop. How will you deal with it, you have that much disposable income around to just deal with $36000 with no problem with the way your family lives on a day to day basis

Braces? Been there, done that with 2 of them.

Could I do it again? Sure.

[Spidey]

Braces? Been there, done that with 2 of them.

Could I do it again? Sure.

And we will to, just have to make some adjustments.

Do you both work? Whats your income between the two of you per year?

I guess really its the internet, you could be just saying all this for spite sake. Ill never know, you could be one of the many people that make 100K right out of school with no expereince as well.

Either or, Ill have to take your word on all of it.

Same can be said for me as well. I could be making this all up as well, but my track record on here shows Im pretty open on most things.

Most people that try and fake their stories get caught sooner or later. Not saying your not a father of 6 and that 2 had braces, but no way for anyoen to know for sure

[Mrbj]

Please explain what my kids are going through that makes you feel bad?

No parent ever knows what will happen to their family. Everything from sickness to death can happen. We as parents are planning for them as well as we can and supporting them as well as we know how.

The 25K I won the other day?????? That was 9 years ago.

We as well took a chance and moved to a new city with no jobs and no help, and made it here. So good on you for doing what you did

Sorry man. I think I got too emotional and you took it too personal. Only reason I put that out there is that the stressed out parents (player/teacher/anybody) can't make right decisions for the family and that may affect their everyday life.

I shared my story just to show that there is a hope. If plan A is not working, plan B should kick in right away. Good luck and all the best! Sorry if anything I've said hurt you – even though I had good intentions.

[samm]

Question OP: what do you do for a living that allows you to go on RFD the whole day? :mad:

[Spidey]

Sorry man. I think I got too emotional and you took it too personal. Only reason I put that out there is that the stressed out parents (player/teacher/anybody) can't make right decisions for the family and that may affect their everyday life.

I shared my story just to show that there is a hope. If plan A is not working, plan B should kick in right away. Good luck and all the best! Sorry if anything I've said hurt you – even though I had good intentions.

No everything is fine here, but we dont try and hide stuff from our kids. They know why sometimes you have to cut back as a family. We are a team when it comes to a lot of stuff, have to be these days.

We have been through dire straits before, from job loss (more than once) to unexpected expenses. We will deal with this like any other, hard work.

[Mrbj]

Another thing, you might be working a job that you like not the one that pays you the best. Sometimes you have to sacrify what you love.

BTW..I started my jouney from $6.5/hour job and now 55K/year [I know it's not the best, but it works out pretty good].

[Lone_Prodigy]

You keep mentioning how your trailer is so cheap, your boat is so cheap, and your costs for your pets is so cheap. Yes they're absolute steals and you'd be hard-pressed to replace them at that price down the road, but you know what's cheaper? Zero. Nothing. $0 for insurance, fishing license, shots, pet food.

You won't be paying $300 a month forever. Eventually the braces will come off, your kids will be old enough to go to university and move out, maybe you get a huge raise, etc. Then you can buy another trailer, take a big family trip, and get a pet.

[Spidey]

Question OP: what do you do for a living that allows you to go on RFD the whole day? :mad:

IT :razz:

Were in a slow spot right now, so I have to catch up on a lot of stuff in the office and do this.

Im also studying for my MCSE as well at work.

[Spidey]

You keep mentioning how your trailer is so cheap, your boat is so cheap, and your costs for your pets is so cheap. Yes they're absolute steals and you'd be hard-pressed to replace them at that price down the road, but you know what's cheaper? Zero. Nothing. $0 for insurance, fishing license, shots, pet food.

You won't be paying $300 a month forever. Eventually the braces will come off, your kids will be old enough to go to university and move out, maybe you get a huge raise, etc. Then you can buy another trailer, take a big family trip, and get a pet.

Well lights cost me money to, should I cut off the power to my house to. That will bring that down to $0. Where do you draw the line to saving money.

I know I wont be paying off $300 forever, so we get rid of the family pet for 2 years just to get another. How is that even being close to responsible?

People say put in a garden, thats awesome. Guess whats, thats not free either. Land or not, it still costs to have a garden. I got a roto tiller for free to till it, still had to buy gas. Have to buy seeds, those cost,etc

Everyone keeps saying my boat. Ok, what if I didnt have my boat, and just bought a fishing license at $25 a year and caughty and ate fish. Isnt that like the garden, costs money to get fish, so I spend $25 to get a license but eat fish for free the rest of the year

[Spidey]

Another thing, you might be working a job that you like not the one that pays you the best. Sometimes you have to sacrify what you love.

BTW..I started my jouney from $6.5/hour job and now 55K/year [I know it's not the best, but it works out pretty good].

What did you take in school to get to that. Thats good progress

[masterhapposai]

Thanks for all the tips. Do some already, will be doing some others, and not doing some others you mentioned.

The way people type om here, Im amazed that some seem to never ever spend money on anything thats not life related. They never ever seem to go out, never spend one dime on anythign extra, never enjoy a coffee or beer, or a movie, like ever. Do you always say no to everyone that asks you to go do something that costs money, even a few dollars. If so I call you a liar, because while you can do tons for free, and we do, there is times you have to go spend money on entertainment, even $5. Or are you ok with going out and your friends or family paying for everything.

Im into cutting back to make things work, but if I can have an evening out for $3.50, then Ill do it. If it was for $35, then I would of said no. But I collect scene points for tyhis reason, so I can see movies for free. This was the first movie since the fall I went to, and that and the hour after was $3.50 Pretty good deal to get out of the house and be with some friends for awhile.

This poster said I should of gone to the movie with my friends but donwload it instead. So its ok to be cheap and do things that are illegal. Its a gray area, but where do you draw the line. Family movie nighst are at home and are free, by either borrowed movies or movies from the library.

There has to be a balance, you cant always not spend money all the time. And while I dont have any daily habits that cost me money, Im not going to deny myself going out a few times a year to save $60 the entire year.


Thanks for everyones help. This thread is just going in circles now, and I got some good ideas from it. Does that mean I will be doing them all, not at all. Defintly not selling my boat, thats time with my family I enjoy. My kids and I enjoy fishing, and for the cost of a fishing license a year and some gas thats worth it to me.

But you just say sell them, sell everything we own. I know living in the city you dont understand the concept of outdoor activities, but the things we own like that our used for entertainment as well as for utilitarian purposed. The quad, sell it, then shovel snow for 5-6 hours after each major snowfall. Sell the boat, yet you keep saying eat food thats free. If we go out fishing and bring back our limits, we have free food right there. I dont sport fish, I go out to spend time with my kids and as well to have fish to eat, because we like it. And if we dont fish, having the boat doesnt cost me a thing sitting there.

Trailer is potentially on the chopping block, but we sell that, but then thats our family vacation gone each year. I know alot on here dont "get" camping, they think its a waste of time and resources. Thats fine, but many families in the country enjoy it as a family outing. Sorry alot of people that arent into the outdoors dont understand that, but not all of us were born and raised in the city.

I do love your comment about the man above wants us to spend more time in the house. Really, why. Like everyone doesnt spend enough time indoors these days. Parents in the office all day, kids in school all day, just to go home and stay inside some more. Why wouldnt I want to get away from the house and go fishing with my kids on a Saturday? You may be fine by being a shut-in, Im defintly not. You make it sound like its bad to spend time outside of the house with my family

I am pretty sure Spidey, if you only take "some" of our tips, you won't improve the situation enough and may fall into depression or worse worrying about your finances.

If you take only a bit of our advice and manage to work it out, please post here what you did. We're all curious and what to hear some metrics on the validity of our advice.

In regards to this post, please understand that many of us grew up poor, and we had a great time being poor. Times are even better of course now that we're out of the hole, but nothing can replace a family spending time together, getting along, and having fun in a closed-in space, indoors. I notice these days with technology that people are getting farther apart from each other socially and going outside only serves to make an anti-social outing, where you talk less because something is distracting all of you.

You'd be surprised how many days you can stay in and not have a problem with it. There many free activities you can do outside, that are much more healthy for you than eating icecream. Such as playing Ball Hockey, its a very small investment.

[masterhapposai]

Do people not read where Im from under my avatar?

Your throwing out stuff for out east if Im not mistaken? Public mobile doesnt exist out here according to their coverage maps

Pay as you go would work, on contract though. So a pay out is in order to get out, is it worth it to pay out to save the monthyl fee?

Giving you straight up fast advice, hence why I said "I know I'm throwing these things out fast and might be slightly inaccurate".

Its not like you're giving me your exact details. There's the location and it may not even be real. Anyway, you even agree "pay as you go".

Contract? Call them 3x a week, threatening to quit unless they reduce the prices. You'll catch them off guard once and if you use tips on how to talk about cancellations, from this forum, you'll definitely get it.

[Spidey]

I am pretty sure Spidey, if you only take "some" of our tips, you won't improve the situation enough and may fall into depression or worse worrying about your finances.

If you take only a bit of our advice and manage to work it out, please post here what you did. We're all curious and what to hear some metrics on the validity of our advice.

In regards to this post, please understand that many of us grew up poor, and we had a great time being poor. Times are even better of course now that we're out of the hole, but nothing can replace a family spending time together, getting along, and having fun in a closed-in space, indoors. I notice these days with technology that people are getting farther apart from each other socially and going outside only serves to make an anti-social outing, where you talk less because something is distracting all of you.

You'd be surprised how many days you can stay in and not have a problem with it. There many free activities you can do outside, that are much more healthy for you than eating icecream. Such as playing Ball Hockey, its a very small investment.

I grew up poor as well, and I know there are tons of things indoors and outdoors we can do for free. I prefer the outdoor activities. We play soccer outside as a family, hiking, walking the dog, cycling, picnics, firepits and roasting hot dogs. So while you said whats bolded above, Im on the other spectrum that nothing brings a family together like outside activities and discovering new things.

I dont understand why you think going outside makes people for a more anti-social setting? Isnt the opposite when you go outside and meet people. Thats where we meet alot of the friends we have, outside at parks and playgrounds.

I have no problem staying inside, thats what we do alot of the winter with family activities.. But after being cooped up all winter, I defintly want to get outside.

Like Ive posted before if I took everyones advice on here some contradicts others, so Im taking what will work for us and go from there

[masterhapposai]

How is milk a waste of time and money? How is something that is good for you a waste of time. Who says we dont eat eggs at breakfast. Kids are alwatys mixing it uo each day from toast one day to eggs the next day.

How about you eat the same free thing day in and day out for weeks on end and see how you like it. Do-able, yep, but Im also not getting free eggs all the time either.

Whats with the motivation and intellegence crap your throwing around above? Your telling me im not motivated or smart? I defitnyl dont need a lecture from you on how to eat healthy, while everyones out there eating fast food we are having balance meals at home.

Milk isn't necessarily good for you. There are definitely some issues with it. Read up on how it actually doesn't deliver the nutrients to your body as they proclaim. Its not a good source of calcium.

If you eat the eggs more often, you'll save $ (you get a discount right?). They're harmless, and super beneficial to your health.


How about you eat the same free thing day in and day out for weeks on end and see how you like it.

Been there done that. Try years. Many University students eat tons of Kraft dinner too. I'm not saying do it for life. Just until you get your head above water. But, eggs are an awesome cheap food, even at retail price.


Whats with the motivation and intellegence crap your throwing around above? Your telling me im not motivated or smart? I defitnyl dont need a lecture from you on how to eat healthy, while everyones out there eating fast food we are having balance meals at home

That's a key problem here.

You're not those people, you can't compare yourself to others at the moment. There's a definite financial issue in your home and until you isolate it, you have to pull all the stops. You realize, if you live paycheck to paycheck, you can end up in some serious debt right? Things like this cause great family stress and most divorces are about $ trouble. Eating eggs every day is the least of your worries and if anything will keep you in top notch sharp minded shape.


Whats with the motivation and intellegence crap your throwing around above? Your telling me im not motivated or smart?

To post this thread, you're smart and motivated. You need to be even more on the top of your game now though. You're Peter Parker (nothing wrong with that, the guy's smart) and its time to be Spiderman.

[Spidey]

Giving you straight up fast advice, hence why I said "I know I'm throwing these things out fast and might be slightly inaccurate".

Its not like you're giving me your exact details. There's the location and it may not even be real. Anyway, you even agree "pay as you go".

Contract? Call them 3x a week, threatening to quit unless they reduce the prices. You'll catch them off guard once and if you use tips on how to talk about cancellations, from this forum, you'll definitely get it.

Nothing on the internet is real, expecially on here. Although I can say Im probably one of the more honest ones on here with my situations

[masterhapposai]

You keep mentioning how your trailer is so cheap, your boat is so cheap, and your costs for your pets is so cheap. Yes they're absolute steals and you'd be hard-pressed to replace them at that price down the road, but you know what's cheaper? Zero. Nothing. $0 for insurance, fishing license, shots, pet food.

You won't be paying $300 a month forever. Eventually the braces will come off, your kids will be old enough to go to university and move out, maybe you get a huge raise, etc. Then you can buy another trailer, take a big family trip, and get a pet.

This.

Its all stealth costs, adding up and taking him down. That boat isn't $100, there are many hidden costs that go with it. For all I know its prob more like $500-1000 per year tied directly into boat usage. The other things prob much worse.

Like I said, I know single moms who make likely 1/4 his family's dual income and handle 3 kids no prob.

[masterhapposai]

I grew up poor as well, and I know there are tons of things indoors and outdoors we can do for free. I prefer the outdoor activities. We play soccer outside as a family, hiking, walking the dog, cycling, picnics, firepits and roasting hot dogs.


That's fine, but I seen many other things that I pointed out to drop, and they're not in that list. i.e trailer, 4x4, boat, etc. anything that requires Gas, I'd toss. I listed more than this even, so have others.

Going outside can be anti-social because there are too many distractions. i.e going to a movie (i know, u don't go often), you don't have time or ability to talk to each other.



Like Ive posted before if I took everyones advice on here some contradicts others, so Im taking what will work for us and go from there

Choose the advice that results in the most profit and most $ saved, always.

I don't think its one thing killing your income. You should be living very comfortable, eating out often, having lots of $ outings with your family. Something's off and I think it has to do with all of your machinery, gas expenses, etc. (I may be wrong, but this is my gut instinct)

[ItemFinder]

Nothing on the internet is real, expecially on here. Although I can say Im probably one of the more honest ones on here with my situations
That's only what you think, and I know you're referring to salaries on RFD. Not everyone that claims to be making six figures is lying.

[masterhapposai]

WHY I dont download, not sure. Could I ya, but where the line drawn between saving money and doing stuff illegal (grey area illegal) What am I teaching my kids, thats its OK to do that at the cost of saving a few dollars.

It taught me how to use a computer very well, be tech savvy (pun intended), and learn the value of a dollar.

I didn't turn out to be one of those kids or adults who went into credit card debt stocking up their DVD collection and re-buying songs on iTunes for my $5000 Apple hardware collection.

I was on the subway the other day and heard a bunch of 20 yr old girls justifying why they can get an iPad:
-"its not much $ to me, think about it, I can get $ from my parents"
-"I work, but since my parents cover school, I can waste it on whatever I want"

so, it can't go towards books, tutoring, or trying to pay down their student debt? lol

Yeah, teach them how to buy buy buy, and you might be rewarded with kids who buy what they shouldn't.

I was taught to use coupons and find ways to get things for free. This helps to this day. Even if you're not teaching them to buy a lot, but if you tell them you're buying at retail price, and not even showing them alternatives, they'll fall behind in internet tech / tech in general, they'll be more "legit users" who will eventually end up wasting $, etc.., there are many side effects to not downloading in the long run, especially for a poor family (again, I don't how you got poor, given your combined salary).

I believe poor people (real poor, who have below $50k combined income) deserve to experience entertainment for free. It would clean up our ghetto areas and get people indoors learning family values and spending time with each other.

[easterclause]

I'm going to confess, I just spent an hour reading this thread and 30 minutes thinking about this post cause I was insanely curious as to how willing an RFDer would be to cut back.

I'm young, and don't have a family, but a plethora of good advice has been given here. It just seems like you're using some circular logic, Spidey.

"Cut this cut this cut this"
"Why should I deny myself this? It's so small! Is it really too much to have _____?"

The answer on page after page of this thread is "yes, it is". Why not work to live instead of live to work? Working more hours has been demonstrated by some of the posts here (~7.5 hours extra a week) to be effective at meeting your new obligation, but that's time away from family, which you made clear is very important. I think what people are saying is that they know belt tightening is not pleasant, but you're also showing a real inability to act on it beyond the basics, like the lotto tickets.

I would not worry about the moral quandary of downloading films for my family's entertainment if I couldn't purchase something instead. The reverse is also true: a film exec would drop a suit against you in a New York second once the news reported you couldn't afford to (if you went to the news about it). Bad PR. There are many other life lessons, and many other instances in which basic principles like "don't steal" can be imparted; let this one slide.

The Netflix...perhaps this is the time for you to cultivate a different sort of family. The kind that kicks back with a book in the evenings instead of television. It would help with sleep patterns, and foster intellectual curiosity in your children (if they don't have it already, and what kid isn't curious about things...help them along even more!) That's 9 bucks after tax, that's 100 bucks a year, in your pocket. I don't want to give you an example of how easy it is by saying I don't watch television...but I don't. It's doable, my parents never let me watch a lot of TV when I was younger.

Get a cheaper cell phone plan. Get the Clever plan for you and your wife. http://shop.windmobile.ca/ Medecine Hat falls squarely within the coverage area. For 15/month you get unlimited calls to her, 100 minutes if you need to communicate with the house, and 50 texts. An easy 40 bucks a month there, and that's something you can do long term. Many people make do that way. Alternately, for 25 dollars a month, you get unlimited calling and unlimited texting, which is still cheaper than your existing plan of 70 dollars/month. Easiest solution to start putting money in your pocket.

You've dealt with the dish; good. RFD is not about saving money, it's about spending money to save money, and you can't pay 30/month. This is fine. That's 360 a year you've saved. You've also saved your kids' brain cells. =)

Think about it this way, if you use the Clever plan, suddenly you're paying 30 versus 70, that's 4 hours of minimum wage back in your pocket and you don't have to work another minute than you do now. Same with Netflix, another hour a week back in your pocket. Same with the satellite.

I guess I have to agree with many of the people here who are posting the same thing. You've got a lot of luxuries you can't afford. No, you shouldn't have to deprive your kids of television or netflix, but this is life, and compromise is essential, which is why switching out things like television for borrowing a lot more books from the library is an easy deal.

You also mentioned you had two or three televisions in the house. If they're worth anything, consider getting rid of one or two, and rely on books instead.

The whole thing about eggs. You responded to that point by basically saying it was unreasonable to expect kids to deal with the same thing every morning for breakfast. Eggs are cheap and nutritious and if there's one thing I know, it's what my accounting prof told me: people can get used to anything. Anything. "No you don't need to do well in this course or your degree to survive...after all, people survive eating out of garbage dumpsters." See where I'm going with this? Your kids may complain for a week, or a month, but they'll get used to it, and meanwhile, the protein in those eggs will be helping them feel fuller, longer. Plenty of adults eat the same thing for breakfast every day; help your kids and help yourself by giving them eggs.

Lastly, fibre and protein. Two things that help you feel fuller, longer. You should review a list of the top ten foods by fibre and protein content. Avocados, beans, chick peas...buy them in bulk and start incorporating them into all your meals. They're are extremely nutritious. I know you're adamant about three hamburgers, but you don't need three hamburgers, your objections to the contrary notwithstanding. Start feeding your kids sides of high fibre/protein veggies like the ones I listed, and space out that second hamburger by about 15 minutes, after the stomach has started sending "I'm full" to their brains, and you won't be handing out those second burgers. That's not being cruel, it's not depriving your children, you're simply taking a more active interest in their health. This should also let you or whoever else is eating snacks cut down on the costs of those. You'll be feeling full in between meals.

Incidentally, eating red meat leads to bowel cancers later in life, because red meat takes its time going through the digestive tract, allowing for harmful reactions that lead to cancers. Help your kids by feeding them lean meat (chicken), not beef. Eating fibrous, protein-rich foods will also help cut down on meat.

This doesn't have to put more strain on your family, and it doesn't have to result in you breaking your back more to provide for them. Just take it as an opportunity to realign your family, home and eating habits to your disposable income and make some healthy decisions!

[poedua]

So tell me this, what will happen if every kid you have will get braces at 6K a pop. How will you deal with it, you have that much disposable income around to just deal with $36000 with no problem with the way your family lives on a day to day basis

Well, kids come first. Especially when it comed to heatth and dental issues with your kids.

So, to pay for braces, you simply do whatever it takes to come up with the cash...


- sell some assets you may have ( i.e boat, trailer )
- reduce your daily costs by making hard choices of cutting things back drastically or cutting them out altogether.
- you and or your wife get a second job
- you borrow funds somehow


....again, you do whatever it takes.:)

[Bullseye]

I read the first chunk of this thread, then speed read/skipped some, so maybe this is repetitive...cutting down meat consumption is a pretty big money saver, probably $200/month for a family. My family (wife, 2 boys, 4 and 6 years old) cut down to eating meat once a week as a new years resolution 5 months ago, and we've saved a tonne. I figure most dinners for four are costing us less than $5 in total! We did it for health and environmental reasons, but the money savings are a nice bonus. I thought it would be a difficult change, but with some recipe research, it's actually been far easier than I thought. So much so that we're going even further with it that we planned, sometimes going 2-3 weeks without meat. As someone posted above, you can get used to ANYTHING if you just try it for awhile. We don't feel deprived at all, we make delicious and nutritious meals every day. Some examples;

Stuffed potatoes skins with a bean salad side
Portobello mushroom burgers
Homemade subs with tomatoes, cheese, eggs, smoked salmon, whatever else we have around
Curried chick peas over rice
Antipasto dinner - hummous, baguettes, picked vegs, whatever else
Clams and spaghetti
Pasta with homemade 'kitchen sink' sauce (all veggies in fridge/garden, whizzed to fine sauce)
Peanut noodle curry
Polenta with a nice sauce
Veg chilli
Salad nicoise
Tuna melts
Glam tuna sandwiches
Any fish done any way, rice and raw veg on side
Homemade veg pizza - anything you want on it
Black bean quesadillas/burritos/tacos
Eggplant parmigian
Homemade Veg quiche
Homemade veg soups of all sorts, with fresh bread
Homemade veg lasagna

Whoa, got carried away there. And hungry now. ;)

We do lots of other ideas in this thread to save money as well. Using these various techniques, we are able to live well in the GTA for $4k/month. I can put up my budget if you think it will be helpful. We do this so we can pay our mortgage down fast and be free to explore our dreams, not because we have to financially, but it is still very rewarding.

[Spidey]

Thanks for some more tips.

But I am curious, why do people keep saying Im not cutting back???? There are still posts saying I refuse to give up lotto tickets???????????? When I have mentioned many times that I am giving that up.

Cell phones, going to try and get out of the contract if I can, or at least lower them even more.

Also many are making it sound like my kids are mindless Tv zombies as well that do absolutely no physical activity and dont know how to read. Just because we have a few (free) tvs in the house doesnt mean thats all we do. Ive been told Im a bad parent in other threads that I limit their screen time use to an hour every day, or that I dont allow them to play video games that arent rated for them. So with that that shows I dont just use electronic devices as babysitters

Your also making it sound like all are kids are interested in is material things, and comparing them to kids on the bus wanting an IPAD2. Where that couldnt be further from the truth as we are teaching them the exact opposite. And also that we donty know what its like to live of KD for weeks on end, we were both students once as well with no food in the fridge. We eat KD still, just not every day.

While I am taking many ideas off of here, Im not taking them all. if I did like Ive said before we would be living in a one bedroom apartment with no vehciles at all, because I should get rid of anything that uses gas.

And as for my boat (which still cant believe is an issue, a 12 foot aluminum boat that cost be $100) Im not getting rid of it. Why, because if I dont use it this year at all, its costing me nothing sitting there. its not costing me insurance, maintenance, or storage space, nothing. So why get rid of an item that costs me nothing.

Like Ive said before, this thread is going in circles. We will find away to afford it, we always do. I just wanted to get some ideas, and I have.

Thanks

[Spidey]

Well, kids come first. Especially when it comed to heatth and dental issues with your kids.

So, to pay for braces, you simply do whatever it takes to come up with the cash...


- sell some assets you may have ( i.e boat, trailer )
- reduce your daily costs by making hard choices of cutting things back drastically or cutting them out altogether.
- you and or your wife get a second job
- you borrow funds somehow


....again, you do whatever it takes.:)

We will be, thats why I posted, to get some ideas. And I have and will use some.

Ive been a parent for over 14 years, I know what needs to be done.

[Lone_Prodigy]

OP, people are skeptical of you because you're struggling to raise three kids with two decent incomes. Others here have survived on much less.

[Spidey]

OP, people are skeptical of you because you're struggling to raise three kids with two decent incomes. Others here have survived on much less.

So have we, we just hit a bump in the road. Changes are being made as we speak

[ricoboxing]

havent read all the posts, but are his teeth that bad that he has to get them done now?

I remember back in the days, my sister needed braces. My dad didnt have enough money so he offered to take family portraits (he had a photography business) of the orthodontists family to reduce the cost.

[Spidey]

havent read all the posts, but are his teeth that bad that he has to get them done now?

I remember back in the days, my sister needed braces. My dad didnt have enough money so he offered to take family portraits (he had a photography business) of the orthodontists family to reduce the cost.

IM phoning around locally this afternoon to some dentists that do braces. The one we were referred to was an actual orthodontist. So maybe they will be cheaper


Mods, can you lock the thread please. Theres just triplicates of everything now. Basicall y going around in circles now. THanks

[CSK'sMom]

locked up tight per OP's request. :)