Concert Photography

[saint2e]

Gonna be going to a charity concert on friday and I'm gonna be doing some photography for the bands.

Never done this before, but have been reading up on things. Thought I'd start a topic. obviously lighting is gonna be horrible and unreliable, so here's my initial equipment/settings:

Canon T1i
50mm f1.8
18-200mm (probably won't use this one at all)

Settings:
Manual mode (Aperture set from 1.8 - 2.8, Shutter speeds probably try and keep around 1/160)
ISO 1600
Spot Metering
Continuous Auto Focus
Auto White Balance

Obviously depending on lighting and my position in front of the stage, these will change.

Anyone else have any tips or suggestions?

[fishwallop]

Gonna be going to a charity concert on friday and I'm gonna be doing some photography for the bands.

Never done this before, but have been reading up on things. Thought I'd start a topic. obviously lighting is gonna be horrible and unreliable, so here's my initial equipment/settings:

Canon T1i
50mm f1.8
18-200mm (probably won't use this one at all)

Settings:
Manual mode (Aperture set from 1.8 - 2.8, Shutter speeds probably try and keep around 1/160)
ISO 1600
Spot Metering
Continuous Auto Focus
Auto White Balance

Obviously depending on lighting and my position in front of the stage, these will change.

Anyone else have any tips or suggestions?

Rent some faster glass, like a 70-200 f/2.8 and/or, if you're closer to the stage, a 17-55 f/2.8 IS. The IS won't help freeze motion at all, but the f/2.8 will help.
Faster primes are available too...

[Jimbobs]

You don't mention flash so I assume you are not allowed to use it. If you can, you definitely should. If nothing else you could use your flash for auto focus assist.

My choice would be to use Aperture Priority rather than Manual, with aperture wide open; spot metering, of course. I think your lens decision will depend on your location.

Add: unless you have time to familiarize yourself, I wouldn't bother renting new gear. Practice with what you have until you are completely comfortable with that and away you go.

[saint2e]

Yeah I may get away with flash, but I'm assuming I won't be able to. And I should have free range, so I think my nifty 50 should be sufficient.

My next lens will be better glass, but unfortunately no budget for it at the moment..

Probably i find with Aperture priority is that sometimes the shutter speeds can get down lower than 1/30. So I'd rather have underexposed shots than blurry... If that makes sense.

[Jimbobs]

Yeah I may get away with flash, but I'm assuming I won't be able to. And I should have free range, so I think my nifty 50 should be sufficient.

My next lens will be better glass, but unfortunately no budget for it at the moment..

Probably i find with Aperture priority is that sometimes the shutter speeds can get down lower than 1/30. So I'd rather have underexposed shots than blurry... If that makes sense.

In a concert setting, the auto focus assist capability of your flash is very helpful and very fast. Definitely worth getting to know and using.

[saint2e]

That won't flicker the flash during the concert, will it? It uses the red led, rather than the full bulb, correct?

[Astin]

I assume you're shooting in RAW? You'll want to be fixing the white balance afterwards almost definitely.

Can you get to the venue beforehand? During sound check, setup, etc? That way you can take practice shots around the empty venue to get an idea of where you'll want to be. 50mm on a crop is going to get ugly if you're too close. By wandering around you'll know how much you can get into a shot, what perspective you'll have (ie.- is there a balcony or raised portion?). Also, you might want to see if you can get to a few off-limits-to-the-public areas for a better shot.

Don't get married to settings either. If you come in close for a shot, f/1.8 could give you a depth of field you don't want (less of a problem further back), so you might have to up the ISO to compensate for a slower aperture and still maintain a good shutter speed. Unless you can use a flash.

In fact, shutter priority may be a better choice than Av - it will likely stick on the widest aperture, but may surprise you since you'll have spot metering on. That way you can be sure your shutter speed is locked to something that works to freeze the action (or get the right amount of motion blur if you'd prefer).

[sylpherware]

Can you give more details about the venue and the band? Like, where will you be standing? How many people will be on stage?

I brought my XSi + 85mm f1.8 and 11-16mm f2.8 to a rock concert once, and I was about 10ft away from the stage. No flash.
Here's what I got: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sylpherware/sets/72157625087512868/

I felt the stage lighting illuminated the band enough (except for the drummer at the back) to get more natural-looking shots in.

[saint2e]

Definitely shooting in RAW and I'll be there early to setup chairs, so I'll have all the angles and what not down hopefully.

It's just a bunch of guys who had a band in high school, and they're doing a charity concert for the family of a classmate of mine who died recently.

Since I'm actually helping organize the show, access and ability to move around will not be an issue.

Thanks for the insights guys.

BTW, those are some very nice shots.

[sylpherware]

I see. So it'll be less rowdy and have less dynamic lighting than a rock concert. Something similar to this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sylpherware/sets/72157623612445616/
shot mostly with 55-250mm.

Like others have suggested then, you may want to get something 70mm+ with f2.8. This way you can get close-up shots without being too intrusive. If you have the control over the position and lighting, it might be easier to tell the band where to play for the best result, instead of you fiddling around with camera setting during their performance.

Oh, and, some motion blur is good ;)

[kay188]

If you can't rent, use what you have. 18-200 is good for your wide angle. Then you can switch to your 50 to get tighter crop body shots. Why not use the 18-200 for the tighter crop body shots? Obviously because it's not F/1.8.

Figure out where you might need to stand to use your 18-200, and the 50 for the people shots. You would probably be in the front row which for a small event like this is okay.
A 70-200 will have you standing at the back of the room.

Not even ISO1600. Probably even 3200. You want the fastest shutter speed you can get. The faster the better. Less camera shake and motion blur.

AV Mode will fail you. Spot metering will fail you. AI Servo AF will fail you.

One Shot. Manual Mode. Evaluative Metering.
Focus. Shoot. Chimp. Adjust. Repeat until you get the desired exposure on your camera.
Since it's a lit stage, the only adjustments you'll ever need to make would be your shutter speed (and or aperture) IMO.
For me, if it got a bit bright, flick the shutter wheel 1 click and keep shooting. Too dark, flick it back the other way.

[thericyip]

If you have the access, go wide! It's more interesting!

Skip the flash if it's a well lit stage.

Tokina 11-16, Sigma 30/1.4, Canon 50/1.8, Tamron 17-50/2.8 non-VC are great budget crop lenses.

[kay188]

If you have the access, go wide! It's more interesting!

Skip the flash if it's a well lit stage.

Tokina 11-16, Sigma 30/1.4, Canon 50/1.8, Tamron 17-50/2.8 non-VC are great budget crop lenses.

IMO, too wide would be useless in the long run for concerts unless you're up front and personal to the people on the stage.

Yes. I forgot to mention to skip the flash. Flash is very hard to use with the stage lights and can ruin your photos if you don't know what you are doing.

There's a mint Tokina 11-16 being sold on Kijiji for $500 in the Mississauga region.

VERY VERY GOOD DEAL.

[ritz1010]

AV Mode will fail you. Spot metering will fail you. AI Servo AF will fail you.
Focus. Shoot. Chimp. Adjust.


^^kay188^^
Great suggestions my friend. A newb here. 2 stupid questions
#1 If you could please, throw some light on Why AV, SM, AI servo would fail ??
#2 Chimp..............does it mean check ??

[Jimbobs]

That won't flicker the flash during the concert, will it? It uses the red led, rather than the full bulb, correct?

You just need to Disable the main flash through your camera's menu and then the flash unit (when turned on!) will just project a red grid for auto-focus assist. It's a great help in low-light situations. The only problem you might have is people coming up to you telling you your flash is not working :)

[Jimbobs]

Chimp..............does it mean check ??

Chimp is when you check every shot on the LCD screen, sometimes used in a derogatory manner by pros.

[kay188]

^^kay188^^
Great suggestions my friend. A newb here. 2 stupid questions
#1 If you could please, throw some light on Why AV, SM, AI servo would fail ??
#2 Chimp..............does it mean check ??

AV - You do not have full control of your exposure. You're setting your aperture, and your camera sets the shutter speed based on what the metering tells you.
Spot Metering - You're only spotting the center focus point. If it's too bright to the camera you'll get a really dark picture if you match the needle to the center of the meter.
AI Servo - You do not have full control of your focus point. The people may move too fast for you to follow with the center focus point, even if they're not moving, your camera is not perfect, and the focus may shift to what the CAMERA thinks is correct. You want full control of your focus. Tell the camera to focus on one point and it stays fixed on that point.

AV + Spot - You only have control of the aperture, not shutterspeed. Spotting the center, the camera does not know what you want. If you're relying on your meter and the camera thinking for you then your photos will come out bad.

Chimp does mean check. It's a derogatory term used by the pros because they think "chimping" is bad because you waste the time reviewing your photo when you could be taking another one.
I personally chimp until I get my correct exposure and then I start shooting. I check here and there just to make sure focus and exposure is correct.


You just need to Disable the main flash through your camera's menu and then the flash unit (when turned on!) will just project a red grid for auto-focus assist. It's a great help in low-light situations. The only problem you might have is people coming up to you telling you your flash is not working :)

Most cameras do not have the option to disable the external flash, resulting in only using the AF assist light. Only prosumer cameras have that option, entry level do not.

Focus on a stage when you're far from it, the AF assist does jack all. The stage is lit anyways, why would you need a AF assist lamp?
The AF assist lamp is for subjects close to you in very dim light. That's when it works.

[ritz1010]

^^thanks bro^^ will try to remember it when I am shooting something like that..........or even otherwise.

[Jimbobs]

Most cameras do not have the option to disable the external flash, resulting in only using the AF assist light. Only prosumer cameras have that option, entry level do not.

OP said he had a T1i which, AFAIK, does have the capability of disabling the external flash. In a fast changing, variable lighting situation AF assist it is very helpful, IMHO.

What you describe is not really "chimping" but is, in fact, what better photographers actually do. Chimping is where a poor photographer takes a shot, wastes time studying the screen, showing his/her friends, who all go oooh and aaah and then he takes another shot and repeats the process.

But, anyway, the main point is to not waste an excessive time reviewing when you should be shooting.

[saint2e]

Thanks for all your input. Thought I'd post the results of the concert experiment.

Very happy with how most of them turned out, and came to the conclusion that I need more practice, and some better glass if I wanna do this sort of thing again. :) Walking around with a 50mm isn't ideal, but it got the job done in this case.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/saint2e/sets/72157627972228636/

[kay188]

The photos are pretty alright for what they are. They're a bit underexposed to me.

The 50 did get the job done, but from your EXIF data, IMO you changed your ISO way too often. Going from 1600, to 400, to 800, to 1600, to me is too much.

You were better off sticking with ISO1600, F/1.8 or F/2.8, and just varied the shutter speed for exposure IMO.

[saint2e]

The photos are pretty alright for what they are. They're a bit underexposed to me.

The 50 did get the job done, but from your EXIF data, IMO you changed your ISO way too often. Going from 1600, to 400, to 800, to 1600, to me is too much.

You were better off sticking with ISO1600, F/1.8 or F/2.8, and just varied the shutter speed for exposure IMO.

Yup... Gym stage/lighting made things interesting.

And as far as the Aperture/ISO settings changing, I tried a few things to see what would affect the shots I got. I like to play around with settings and see what works best.

I had some fun. :)

[kay188]

That's good, that you're at least changing things here and there to see what they do, and how you can get the same exposure with different values. :)

[saint2e]

Yeah. My main problem I found was lack of depth of field on some of the wider shots, which is to be expected given the apertures I was working with.

[HeyKatie]

Any advice for someone shooting concerts with a point and shoot to get somewhat decent pictures? I'm using a Canon Powershow SX220 HS

[Ethan15]

Any advice for someone shooting concerts with a point and shoot to get somewhat decent pictures? I'm using a Canon Powershow SX220 HS

P&S has a pretty low aperture and with what they are ... I suggest

- buying gorilla pod so you can attach your camera to fixtures near you, this will allow longer exposure and eliminate camera shake

- increasing ISO

[ericdraven]

With Canon G11
No Flash...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2802/4490789475_b3c8a4974e_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcwong/4490789475/)
Black Rebel Motorcycle Club Show @ La Tulipe (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcwong/4490789475/) by davidcwong888 (http://www.flickr.com/people/davidcwong/), on Flickr

[Jimbobs]

Any advice for someone shooting concerts with a point and shoot to get somewhat decent pictures? I'm using a Canon Powershow SX220 HS

Yes. Point the camera at the stage and press the shutter release :)
Seriously, though, with a P&S, you just need to take lots and lots of photographs in the hope of getting one good one. Your control is very limited on top of the fundamental limitations of that camera.

ADD: but there is one thing you can do that will definitely help and that is to turn off the flash.

[ericdraven]

===


Canon G10
No Flash...


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2570/4126698671_d43960bf74_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcwong/4126698671/)
The Cranberries @ Olympia Theater (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcwong/4126698671/) by davidcwong888 (http://www.flickr.com/people/davidcwong/), on Flickr

[HeyKatie]

I don't think that my canon powershot sx210 is has very good low light settings tbh.

[ericdraven]

Olympus E-PL1
No Flash


http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5285/5236654619_5ed180a68a_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcwong/5236654619/)
Brandon Flowers @ Club Soda - Montreal (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcwong/5236654619/) by davidcwong888 (http://www.flickr.com/people/davidcwong/), on Flickr

[Astin]

ADD: but there is one thing you can do that will definitely help and that is to turn off the flash.

That's crazy! Every concert, game, event, etc. that I go to, is filled with tiny little flashes going off in a giant arena. All those people can't be wrong, can they?

/sarcasm

[saint2e]

I love the flash lights from the upper deck/bowls of venues too. That's REALLY gonna help.

[jodeci78]

I'm on a canon 50D with a 70-200mm f2.8 IS mk ii

ISO: 800
TV (shutter priority)
1/160

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4191/00img4172web.jpg

[ericdraven]

Panasonic GF1
No Flash

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6139/5946398766_f6b607d96c_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcwong/5946398766/)
David Usher @ BRP Crescent Street Summer Festival (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcwong/5946398766/) by davidcwong888 (http://www.flickr.com/people/davidcwong/), on Flickr

[ericdraven]

===


Panasonic GF1


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7011/6448058901_33cf7c1bf5_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcwong/6448058901/)
Lights @ Corona (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcwong/6448058901/) by davidcwong888 (http://www.flickr.com/people/davidcwong/), on Flickr

[jbnc_]

Don't forget you can always stitch to get wide angle shots (if the lighting is fairly constant for the moment) if you dont have many lenses! (posted these in the other pic thread but I figure this might be helpful here too with exif)

5dmkii ISO: 3200 , 1/60, f2 , 35mm (Stitched together like 20 shots)
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6224/6399644325_e18e8b9ffd_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/63525177@N06/6399644325/)
watch the throne (http://www.flickr.com/photos/63525177@N06/6399644325/) by jbnc_ (http://www.flickr.com/people/63525177@N06/), on Flickr

5dmkii ISO: 400 , 1/200, f2 , 35mm
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7156/6399636413_0857638264_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/63525177@N06/6399636413/)
THAT SH*T CRAY (http://www.flickr.com/photos/63525177@N06/6399636413/) by jbnc_ (http://www.flickr.com/people/63525177@N06/), on Flickr

5dmkii ISO: 1600 , 1/60, f2 , 35mm
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7010/6399639005_85869966dc_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/63525177@N06/6399639005/)
otis (http://www.flickr.com/photos/63525177@N06/6399639005/) by jbnc_ (http://www.flickr.com/people/63525177@N06/), on Flickr

[ericdraven]

===


Apple iPhone 4



http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7141/6463918593_0b2186ae1c_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcwong/6463918593/)
VNV Nation @ Club Soda - Montreal (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcwong/6463918593/) by davidcwong888 (http://www.flickr.com/people/davidcwong/), on Flickr

[ericdraven]

===


Apple iPhone 4


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7169/6509057461_8144f350bc_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcwong/6509057461/)
VNV Nation @ Club Soda - Montreal (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcwong/6509057461/) by davidcwong888 (http://www.flickr.com/people/davidcwong/), on Flickr

[ericdraven]

===


Panasonic GF1


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7152/6838206201_f3557b5033_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcwong/6838206201/)
The Kills @ Olympia (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcwong/6838206201/) by davidcwong888 (http://www.flickr.com/people/davidcwong/), on Flickr

[ericdraven]

Panasonic GF1

No Flash...


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7146/6838203443_ea8a1f62d2_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcwong/6838203443/)
The Kills @ Olympia (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcwong/6838203443/) by davidcwong888 (http://www.flickr.com/people/davidcwong/), on Flickr

[George W. Bush]

Canon 50mm f1.4

[ieGod]

5dmkii ISO: 400 , 1/200, f2 , 35mm
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7156/6399636413_0857638264_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/63525177@N06/6399636413/)
THAT SH*T CRAY (http://www.flickr.com/photos/63525177@N06/6399636413/) by jbnc_ (http://www.flickr.com/people/63525177@N06/), on Flickr


Stellar pic! Stitching these at f/2.0 should yield a pretty shallow depth of field. We're talking Brenizer effect, but the shallow dof isn't very pronounced here. Is that just because I'm looking at a small res version? Do you have anything larger? Also what are you using for noise reduction?

[ericdraven]

Panasonic GF1


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7148/6838719749_f445202f24_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcwong/6838719749/)
Marie-Pierre Arthur @ La Tulipe (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcwong/6838719749/) by davidcwong888 (http://www.flickr.com/people/davidcwong/), on Flickr

[jbnc_]

Stellar pic! Stitching these at f/2.0 should yield a pretty shallow depth of field. We're talking Brenizer effect, but the shallow dof isn't very pronounced here. Is that just because I'm looking at a small res version? Do you have anything larger? Also what are you using for noise reduction?

Thanks :D! Only the first pic was stitched together(the blue one). The shallow dof you see in the other examples online of the brenzier method is due to each individual pic having shallow dof. At the distance I was at, even at f2 almost everything was in focus because it was only a 35mm lens. If I ever use noise reduction It would be a combination of the adobe camera raw and noise ninja. In these pictures, no noise reduction was applied because at 400 iso on a 5dmkii there is no noise to speak of. I could afford to use a low iso because I simply waited for the moments in the concert where there were plenty of lights on the stage.

[ericdraven]

Panasonic GF1


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7051/6798746244_da0f8e337e_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcwong/6798746244/)
Ariane Moffatt @ Theatre Rialto (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcwong/6798746244/) by davidcwong888 (http://www.flickr.com/people/davidcwong/), on Flickr