Flagged at the US-CAN border for under-declaring. What to expect now?

[Yuross]

Last weekend I imported a motorcycle from Detroit and got busted for having an under-valued bill of sale (by $2,500). I took an idiotic advise from someone and surely regret it now. I had to pay a $600 fine and the officer told me I am now flagged for 7 years. :facepalm:

I am an avid traveller. I never travel to shop in US, but I do go overseas on ski and bike trips often. Until this time, I always truthfully declared my goods and plan on doing so in the future.

I am just stressing out about what it will be like next time I travel. Has anyone on this forum been flagged and can share their experience?

Please do not tell me how it was "not worth it" and how I should have "known better". I know all this. It was a tough lesson and I accept full consequences. I am not shifting the blame on anyone. I have nothing against CSBA. The officer was very nice and could have easily strapped a much harsher fine on me.

All I want to know is what should I expect next time I travel?
Will US border be notified as well? Any risk that I will be denied entry?

Thank you!

[HungJai]

I don't think you will have any trouble going into the US boarder...its more of a problem with the Canadian boarder...

Your going to get pulled over every time now at the boarder...and probably be searched more often at the airport...

My buddy had the same problem at the boarder bring over a motorcycle (they didn't believe the price...but lucky for us...we had all the paper work...after 45 mins being harassed by them)

[Yuross]

I really don't mind being searched at the border coming in. I've been searched randomly before and aside from a minor delay it's nothing terrible.
What I am really worried about are some additional procedures that could "ruin" my travel for years to come...like being detained, strip-searched or my luggage confiscated.
I hope I'm over-reacting, but I just fear that next time I go over the border I will be treated like a terrorist.

[dutchca]

You are likely in for secondary inspection coming back into Canada for a long time. I don't think they will try cavity searches or anything like that, so relax.

[cwb27]

You (and anyone travelling with you) or anyone using your vehicle will be subject to more frequent and thorough searches when crossing into Canada by air land or sea modes for up to 7 years.

[cwb27]

I really don't mind being searched at the border coming in. I've been searched randomly before and aside from a minor delay it's nothing terrible.
What I am really worried about are some additional procedures that could "ruin" my travel for years to come...like being detained, strip-searched or my luggage confiscated.
I hope I'm over-reacting, but I just fear that next time I go over the border I will be treated like a terrorist.

No detentions, personal searches or seized luggage unless the situation warrants it.

[whampoa]

I didn't under declared. I didn't declared period.

The officer is searching my leather jacket and start counting the Benjamin.

I didn't know you have to declare it to the CSBA, on your way back from the US, pre-911.

Anyhow he gave me this lecture about my name on the system for God know how long.

Then he puts the stash back where it comes from and I walk my merry way.

Since that time, I didn't find anything out of the ordinary when I crossed the border back and forth.

[Nice Sass]

Former CBSA Officer with a decade of experience - quit a few years ago, so my info may be admittedly out of date, but here's how it worked before:

1. Yes, your name is in the system for several years, in which you will be selected for secondary inspection again, with declining frequency towards the end of that period.

2. You didn't say how you transported the motorcycle: Did you ride it? Trailer it? I ask because the vehicle plate stays in the system as well. Assuming that you didn't already have ON plates on it, you may have escaped having your personal vehicle in the system. If it was on a trailer, may just be the trailer plates that were entered.

3. Officers at land border points don't have the time to run every single NAME of every traveller in the system at primary; if your vehicle plate is NOT in the system, you may not even get pulled over UNLESS they run your name. Plates will come up as plate hits, so any plates entered at the time of this event WILL be in the system and will cause you to be referred to secondary. If you cross OFTEN, best way to avoid this is simple: Go pick yourself up a set of new license plates - nurses working in the states (by far the biggest daily cross-border working population) do this all the time once caught not declaring.

4. At airports, they tend to run more NAMES as they obtain passenger manifest lists in advance of the plane's arrival. If your travel is by air, count on secondary inspection.

To answer your remaining questions:

If you are a Canadian citizen, you cannot be denied entry to your own country. If you mean denied entry to the US, that could happen any time anyhow, as we have no innate RIGHT to enter another country. If the story as you've told it is the extent of it, the information will NOT be shared with the US. Shared info pertains only to the BIG stuff (terrorism, drugs, money, weapons, etc.), and it has to be BIG, because then you're getting into some substantial laws.

Next time: Assuming that they run your name and you're a "hit", they will code the referral slip appropriately, and you will be sent for secondary inspection. Note that you should NOT expect any more "freebies" if you ever had any before....so for example, if you went over on a day trip and spent $100, expect that this time you'll be paying. They do this because that sort of solidifies a declaration when you're handing the receipts over and paying taxes on them, and primary officers aren't caught allowing things to go in tax-free. So, expect to pay on everything unless you have an exemption, and even when you have an exemption, expect that they will send you in and document the declaration fully. Any subsequent misdoings (which I know you won't do) result in increased penalty rates based on being greater than first offense.

[mkjr]

since you are CDN, your probably going to just spend longer coming into Canada for a long time to come and pay to the penny on anything over your limits.

now if you were someone that transits through CDN airports to get to the US from say the UK or the EU, then i would say you should probably stop transitting via Canada since you would start missing flight connections and have almost no recourse against the airlines when you miss and they do not accomodate you because you were held up in customs.

[seadog83]

Out of curiosity how did they bust you? You have a receipt. Thought that was the point of a receipt. They basically said "we don't believe you", then you admitted it? What if that actually was the price? Can no one get a deal on a bike? Obviously if you're going to the trouble of going to another country and importing it, it would have to be a deal. I mean unless you we're completely out in left field saying a new bike for $500 or something.

Like lets say you did get a great deal. Some guy who needed the money that day for coke or whatever and you just happened to luck out. Does customs have the unilateral power to decide that despite a factual circumstance a) your lying b) assume a price and c) slap you with fines?

Why doesn't customs do like a lot of provinces do and base the import duty (tax in province's case) on a predetermined value rather than actual price paid?

[seadog83]

since you are CDN, your probably going to just spend longer coming into Canada for a long time to come and pay to the penny on anything over your limits.

now if you were someone that transits through CDN airports to get to the US from say the UK or the EU, then i would say you should probably stop transitting via Canada since you would start missing flight connections and have almost no recourse against the airlines when you miss and they do not accomodate you because you were held up in customs.

Ever since a over zealous customs agent in the US took it upon himself to decide I was lying about a pre-employment/househunting trip to evaluate the place prior to signing a contract and that I actually had an "illegal work agenda" I get to go to the US custom's bonus round probably about 30-40% of the time. One time a guy in there was saying about how he had a tight connection and asked how long it would be, anyways they replied not to worry that US customs covers a new flight if it was missed due to the holdup.

Now, not sure if that was true because based on my experience I could see them saying that to shut him up, him only to discover the truth once he's no longer their problem.

So in the US anyway they said they'd cover it. Not sure about Canada...

[mkjr]

Ever since a over zealous customs agent in the US took it upon himself to decide I was lying about a pre-employment/househunting trip to evaluate the place prior to signing a contract and that I actually had an "illegal work agenda" I get to go to the US custom's bonus round probably about 30-40% of the time. One time a guy in there was saying about how he had a tight connection and asked how long it would be, anyways they replied not to worry that US customs covers a new flight if it was missed due to the holdup.

Now, not sure if that was true because based on my experience I could see them saying that to shut him up, him only to discover the truth once he's no longer their problem.

So in the US anyway they said they'd cover it. Not sure about Canada...
interesting. i suspect delays in lines will not suffice.

[Yuross]

Out of curiosity how did they bust you? You have a receipt. Thought that was the point of a receipt. They basically said "we don't believe you", then you admitted it? What if that actually was the price? Can no one get a deal on a bike? Obviously if you're going to the trouble of going to another country and importing it, it would have to be a deal. I mean unless you we're completely out in left field saying a new bike for $500 or something.

Like lets say you did get a great deal. Some guy who needed the money that day for coke or whatever and you just happened to luck out. Does customs have the unilateral power to decide that despite a factual circumstance a) your lying b) assume a price and c) slap you with fines?

Why doesn't customs do like a lot of provinces do and base the import duty (tax in province's case) on a predetermined value rather than actual price paid?

I did have a bill of sale signed by the seller for $3,000. I bought the bike for $5,500. But I guess the officer did not believe it. He asked me where I found the bike, and I told him the truth; Craigslist. He then left for a few minutes, came back with a stern look and told me that he checked CraigsList and saw the bike was listed for more than that. He then proceeded to list a number of "scenarios" of what would happen if I keep lying; all of them sounded terrifying and involved seizure of the bike, the truck, and very high fines. He said he will ask me "one more time" and if I come clean I can pay the lowest fine and be on my way in 10 minutes. I immediately confessed.

In retrospect I guess I could have stood my ground and argued. But at that moment I was 300 km from home and just wanted to get the hell out of there. In such situation, the CBSA has full power and you are pretty much at their mercy. They can sieze your property until you prove them wrong. I really did not want to be stuck in Windsor and having to deal with all of it.

Yes it is perfectly normal for items on CraigsList to be sold for less than advertised. I am not sure what would have happened if I stuck to my story...maybe they would have called the seller? Maybe they would have gone by the Craigs' ad, or requested my bank statement. It just seemed that it was going to be an ordeal no matter what, and $600 fine looked like a small price to pay. I found out about the 7-year flag only after I paid the fine....

After I came clean the officer warmed up and told me this happens all the time. He said he busts somebody trying to under-declare a vehicle every day and that my case was peanuts compared to what people try to pull off.

@NICE SASS
Thanks for your detailed and informative post. You put a lot of my fears to rest....doesn't really seem that bad. Its annoying for sure, but I'm glad it will not be anything that will stop me from enjoying travel.

As for car plates. I borrowed a friend's truck. And more than anything I feel absolutely terrible for getting him indirectly involved. He did me a favour and now his plates are flagged. I told him what happened and he said he'll wait to see what happens next time he crosses. I offered to buy him new plates if it is even the slightest bother to him.

I am Canadian but never go to US to shop, so I'm not too worried about paying tax on everything I buy.
But will they now question me even on the items that I had with me when I left the country? Lets say, I go on a ski trip with my own skis (laptop, camera, etc) , when I come back will I have to prove that I did not buy them abroad?

[navyseals]

I did have a bill of sale signed by the seller for $3,000. I bought the bike for $5,500. But I guess the officer did not believe it. He asked me where I found the bike, and I told him the truth; Craigslist. He then left for a few minutes, came back with a stern look and told me that he checked CraigsList and saw the bike was listed for more than that. He then proceeded to list a number of "scenarios" of what would happen if I keep lying; all of them sounded terrifying and involved seizure of the bike, the truck, and very high fines. He said he will ask me "one more time" and if I come clean I can pay the lowest fine and be on my way in 10 minutes. I immediately confessed.

In retrospect I guess I could have stood my ground and argued. But at that moment I was 300 km from home and just wanted to get the hell out of there. In such situation, the CBSA has full power and you are pretty much at their mercy. They can sieze your property until you prove them wrong. I really did not want to be stuck in Windsor and having to deal with all of it.

Yes it is perfectly normal for items on CraigsList to be sold for less than advertised. I am not sure what would have happened if I stuck to my story...maybe they would have called the seller? Maybe they would have gone by the Craigs' ad, or requested my bank statement. It just seemed that it was going to be an ordeal no matter what, and $600 fine looked like a small price to pay. I found out about the 7-year flag only after I paid the fine....

After I came clean the officer warmed up and told me this happens all the time. He said he busts somebody trying to under-declare a vehicle every day and that my case was peanuts compared to what people try to pull off.

@NICE SASS
Thanks for your detailed and informative post. You put a lot of my fears to rest....doesn't really seem that bad. Its annoying for sure, but I'm glad it will not be anything that will stop me from enjoying travel.

As for car plates. I borrowed a friend's truck. And more than anything I feel absolutely terrible for getting him indirectly involved. He did me a favour and now his plates are flagged. I told him what happened and he said he'll wait to see what happens next time he crosses. I offered to buy him new plates if it is even the slightest bother to him.

I am Canadian but never go to US to shop, so I'm not too worried about paying tax on everything I buy.
But will they now question me even on the items that I had with me when I left the country? Lets say, I go on a ski trip with my own skis (laptop, camera, etc) , when I come back will I have to prove that I did not buy them abroad?

Don't worry about it. There's tons of these. As the officer said you will be flagged for the set amount of years and you may be required to go for a secondary examination when you re-enter the country...no biggie...it's like a speeding ticket. It's good that you under-declared rather than not declared at all.

It's not a good idea to go shop in the USA when you are flagged but if you do always declare truthfully. Most likely you will be referred for further examination but they still have the authority to let you go.

[Nice Sass]

<snip>

Yes it is perfectly normal for items on CraigsList to be sold for less than advertised. I am not sure what would have happened if I stuck to my story...maybe they would have called the seller? Maybe they would have gone by the Craigs' ad, or requested my bank statement. It just seemed that it was going to be an ordeal no matter what, and $600 fine looked like a small price to pay. I found out about the 7-year flag only after I paid the fine....

After I came clean the officer warmed up and told me this happens all the time. He said he busts somebody trying to under-declare a vehicle every day and that my case was peanuts compared to what people try to pull off.

Yes, they would have called this seller. This does actually happen a lot - in fact, it seemed like more people who purchased used vehicles via online sources undervalued their declarations than those who told the truth. This is why there is immediate skepticism and verification. Although a US seller will generally have no problem issuing a phony receipt, by the time the purchaser is long gone and the transaction over, they generally tell the truth as they have nothing to lose once they've been paid. To get very technical, there are SIX methods of valuation that can be applied to imported goods, the first and most commonly accepted being "transactional value" (what your receipt says). When the transactional value becomes questionable, as it did, they can revert to other valuation methods that are less favorable. For example, value of like/similar goods - if they found a similar bike to yours, in similar condition with similar mileage, they can apply that value because it can be substantiated. There are a host of technicalities to all of these, and I won't get into them here. Just know that the officer was correct, and wasn't just using veiled threats to illicit a confession.

<snip>


I am Canadian but never go to US to shop, so I'm not too worried about paying tax on everything I buy.
But will they now question me even on the items that I had with me when I left the country? Lets say, I go on a ski trip with my own skis (laptop, camera, etc) , when I come back will I have to prove that I did not buy them abroad?


If you're very concerned, for instance items are very new and may appear to have been recently purchased, you can stop at a Customs office and get a card that lists serial numbers of all goods. If memory serves me correctly, this is called a Y38...for items without serial numbers, they can place a Y38-1 which is a yellow sticker with a uniquely identifiable number. People used to get these all the time years ago; now it's rare to see anyone with them. You have to bring the items with you to the Customs office (so don't plan on just showing up with a list of serial numbers...they know better as people would just write down the serial numbers of goods they had purchased in the states then go pick them up). Most items you travel with have markings that indicate that it was purchased in Canada however - turn your laptop over and you should see on the model/serial # portion some French labelling - they don't do this in the US. If you bought it in the states, then absolutely - get the card, just to be safe. Coincidentally, the LEAST picky for this kind of stuff are those in Windsor because the port is just too busy - but cross in the prairies or Eastern Canada at land crossings - they have so much more time to dedicate per traveller that they absolutely nit-pick. If you're hitting the slopes in Vermont, play it safe. I know someone who was busted with a full-on seizure because she forgot that she bought running shoes there - had this been attempted in Windsor, the officer would have been ridiculed.