Academic integrity scenario

[mr_toast]

True story.

Say you hand in project number 2 of 2 worth 10% of your final mark. The project 1 of 2 was worth 10% as well, and you earned 5.5/10. You went to speak to the prof about the mark, and the prof gave you insightful feedback on what you did and didn't include.

The day before you receive project 2 of 2 back, the prof emails you to say that you've done a great job, but simply reversed definitions of two terms in the paper (in this paper, definitions determine most of the rest of the paper, since if the definitions are messed, your examples will be messed too).

The prof gives you a second chance. "Email me a fixed copy of the project before I start marking yours so you can get a better mark".


What would you do? What I've done is rejected the offer outright, and instead offered to show the prof why I thought of my answer in such a way, all the while stating that I'll take any grade I deserve from the project.

Also, should I even report it to the academic integrity/misconduct people?

[JK400]

Yes, this is against the law. Report him to the authorities and he'll be doing some hard jail time in the near future.

[Kasakato]

There is no misconduct.

[jungeon]

True story.

Say you hand in project number 2 of 2 worth 10% of your final mark. The project 1 of 2 was worth 10% as well, and you earned 5.5/10. You went to speak to the prof about the mark, and the prof gave you insightful feedback on what you did and didn't include.

The day before you receive project 2 of 2 back, the prof emails you to say that you've done a great job, but simply reversed definitions of two terms in the paper (in this paper, definitions determine most of the rest of the paper, since if the definitions are messed, your examples will be messed too).

The prof gives you a second chance. "Email me a fixed copy of the project before I start marking yours so you can get a better mark".


What would you do? What I've done is rejected the offer outright, and instead offered to show the prof why I thought of my answer in such a way, all the while stating that I'll take any grade I deserve from the project.

Also, should I even report it to the academic integrity/misconduct people?

The organization on the university (like discrimination office/acadmic integrity etc) are not there to protect the students (I know it sounds perverse right) they are actually there to quash claims against staff, protect the school/professors from ALL claims no matter how legitimate they are. Professors have unions and have a union agreement, and neither the human rights/academic integrity nor even the dean can discipline the professors, even ones who are not tenured. You have to understand that the academic integrity people will NEVER side with you, they are PAID by the school to take the side of the professor and never find any wrong doing. If they find wrong doing they have to pretend they did not find it. There are lots of internal politics in universities, you can't be working in an office there and getting the employees who may be in a senior position to investigate claims against its own employees. If the university was serious, then they would have these organizations operate externally from the university and hire outsiders to investigate the matter. All those offices like misconduct, discrimination are for is to tell students they have no case, so that they do not sue the school even when they have a valid case. A professor could have kicked you in the mouth and these people will say that they couldn't find any witnesses.

[Kasakato]

The organization on the university (like discrimination office/acadmic integrity etc) are not there to protect the students (I know it sounds perverse right) they are actually there to quash claims against staff, protect the school/professors from ALL claims no matter how legitimate they are. Professors have unions and have a union agreement, and neither the human rights/academic integrity nor even the dean can discipline the professors, even ones who are not tenured. You have to understand that the academic integrity people will NEVER side with you, they are PAID by the school to take the side of the professor and never find any wrong doing. If they find wrong doing they have to pretend they did not find it. There are lots of internal politics in universities, you can't be working in an office there and getting the employees who may be in a senior position to investigate claims against its own employees. If the university was serious, then they would have these organizations operate externally from the university and hire outsiders to investigate the matter. All those offices like misconduct, discrimination are for is to tell students they have no case, so that they do not sue the school even when they have a valid case. A professor could have kicked you in the mouth and these people will say that they couldn't find any witnesses.

The dispute resolution process is much, much more involved. For one, expulsions are typically handled through the Senate. There is usually at least one student, not necessary in their undergrad, sitting on Senate. The student must also either be competent to represent themselves, or a lawyer or other legal representative is appointed to them. Also, claims against the school or its agents do not travel through student discipline processes. The student government will have a academic complains resolution process to resolve these issues.

[Mulder and Scully]

All I'm getting from this is that you made an error on your paper, the professor caught it and offered you a chance to correct it. If this is correct then that's an incredibly nice thing for him to do. However, you feel that you're right and the professor is wrong. In addition, you feel that you're ethically superior to him by rejecting his offer.

Let's see now... The professor has experience reading and grading this paper topic year after year and knows exactly what to look for and what to expect from students. You on the other hand are doing this for the first time.

When your grade for the class ends up being a D+ will you still feel superior then?

More than that, you have no case against the professor. You asked for his help (on the first paper) and he gave it to you, twice (first on the feedback of the first paper and second on this second paper).

[mr_toast]

I never said I was right or ethically superior, nor did I mean it that way - I just found it odd and off-putting and out-of-place that a prof would even offer to let me change my paper after the due date for my benefit.

[chinaboy1021]

I would reassess my own paper and see if I still want to sell my own point to the prof. Most likely, no and that I will be proven to have made a mistake. You will not get positive benefits for reporting a prof for whatever you think he has done wrong. Profs have A LOT of leeway in terms of how they want to run their course. They are not allowed to favor students, have sex with students, and whatever. But in terms of giving fair, equal chances to students, there is a ton of room for them to move if they choose to.

Maybe you can reassess your own paper and see if you can side with the prof. There might be an instant light bulb if you can get past your own ignorance (if in fact that is what is causing a mental block). Profs may describe something wrong verbally or make mistakes in class, but they are still the boss. Consider that.

If you still want to try to convince a professor (a lot of academic/work/life experience, read: stubborn) of your idea or whatever, ok. I don't understand what you are hoping to achieve here.

[BryceS]

I never said I was right or ethically superior, nor did I mean it that way - I just found it odd and off-putting and out-of-place that a prof would even offer to let me change my paper after the due date for my benefit.

My friend teaches at university.

Sometimes he has people who have put a lot of effort into an assignment but have obviously missed the entire point of the assignment.

If has time he will allow the student to redo the assignment if it has major errors in it.

I'm referring to assignments where he would grade it around 20-40% and he believes that the student actually put some effort into it.

[millow]

What would you do? What I've done is rejected the offer outright, and instead offered to show the prof why I thought of my answer in such a way, all the while stating that I'll take any grade I deserve from the project.

Also, should I even report it to the academic integrity/misconduct people?

WHY?! Your trying to get good marks aren't you? Just do what the prof said. Why would you even consider reporting something like this, you would just get laughed out and the prof would see it as personal attack. You really do have stick up your butt don't you?

[blzn]

Am I really reading this? Prof see's you made a simple mistake and offers you a chance to fix it and you want to report the prof?

..

[UWO Engineer]

:facepalm:

[komal]

This is pretty stupid.

You really think the prof would ever get into trouble?

LOTS of students get special chances like you are getting in this case.

Students who approach the prof and let them know they are trying hard and want to do well USUALLY get better marks and get more chances from the prof.

This isn't new or unusual.

You made it clear to the prof you were trying before when you asked him about your bad mark, now he's trying to save you from missing out on marks because in his mind, he's trying hard.

I've talked to a lot of profs and never gotten this kind of return on knowing a prof, the most I've gotten is detailed feedback and some good 1 on 1 time, but you should appreciate it that the prof is giving you this chance.

Nothing would happen to him if you reported him. Instead you would be laughed at for thinking you were going to get him into trouble for being nice to you.

Blatant discrimination is one thing, but letting students improve if they've given the prof the impression they are trying hard is a compassionate thing that no Dean/Chancellor/President would ever punish a prof for.

You're very misguided.

Bottom line:

You're clueless. Prof isn't doing anything wrong, being nice to certain students who the prof believes are trying hard is completely reasonable and justified and will never be punished.

You should be doing this kind of 1 on 1 interaction with every prof if possible.

Instead you should be trying to ace this class and get a reference letter since this prof now knows you somewhat and might be willing to go out on a limb for you, even if your mark isn't that great at the end of the semester.

[DrXenon]

The point of going to school is education, not slavish adherence to rules. When you make the correction, you're going to actualize that you made a mistake, and you probably won't make it again, ever. This is the goal of education.

When I was in Grade 9, my English teacher (a former Jesuit priest, and they know something about education) told us that if, after a test, we corrected our errors and returned the paper, we would get most of the marks back. That man was a teacher, as opposed to the educational functionaries that pass for teachers in most of the universities these days.

[tng11]

Is this thread for real? You actually want to report the prof for wanting to give you a chance to get a better mark, plus learn from your mistakes? :facepalm:

One of my foreign language courses had a very specific clause on the syllabus that said any essays would be returned with errors clearly marked, and a satisfactorily edited second copy would receive a full letter grade higher than the one assigned on the original copy. Everybody loved that policy, not only because it saved our terrible marks (the first essay had a failing average), but because the process of knowing where you were wrong and having to find out how to fix it yourself went a very long way in improving our writing skills.