So Chinese cars are finally here

[KawaiiTentacleBeast]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/21/business/in-a-first-chinese-built-cars-arrive-in-north-america.html?_r=2&src=tp



In Canada, a Car Built in China

Ariana Lindquist for The New York Times
Honda Fits being built in Guangzhou, China. Honda has sent the car from China to 27 countries.
By NICK BUNKLEY and IAN AUSTEN
Published: December 20, 2011

DETROIT — Chinese-made cars have quietly arrived in North America for the first time, but without the bamboo dashboards and quirky names that have adorned them at recent auto shows.

The cars, in fact, are not even from the myriad Chinese automakers whose North American ambitions have been stymied by inferior quality and sometimes laughably poor performances in crash tests.

Instead, the Japanese automaker Honda is crossing the threshold by importing subcompact cars into Canada from one of its plants in China. This month, Honda Canada began receiving its smallest model, the Fit, from China instead of Japan, as part of a strategy to produce more vehicles outside its home country.

The decision allows Honda to eke out higher profit in a segment of the auto market where margins are extremely thin, especially since the high value of the yen cuts into all Japanese automakers’ overseas operations.

“The yen has been getting stronger and stronger,” Jerry Chenkin, executive vice president of Honda Canada, said on Tuesday.

Few car shoppers are likely to notice the change, and there is no expectation that Chinese-made cars are destined for the United States anytime soon. But the Honda imports are significant because vehicles are among the few categories of consumer products in North America for which manufacturers had not turned to China to try to cut costs.

“There’s been much talk about Chinese cars being sold in North America, but we hadn’t seen that yet,” said Michelle Krebs, a senior analyst with Edmunds.com, an automotive research Web site. “These are from a well-known, major global automaker, so that eliminates some of the challenges that face Chinese automakers.”

All the major automakers have plants in China, which they generally use to make vehicles to sell there. Only 3 percent, or 580,000, of the vehicles built in China last year were exported. Many automakers are reluctant to use that capacity to supply other countries because they want to maximize sales in China, now the world’s largest car market.

Mr. Chenkin said that the move had relatively little to do with direct costs. He declined to comment about wage differences between Japan and China.

“From what I understand, in terms of the cost of production for the Fit, the difference between China and Japan is not significant,” he said. “But the exposure of the yen exchange rate is of concern to Honda and other manufacturers.”

Lower disposable incomes and higher gasoline prices in Canada mean that small cars like the Fit are more popular there than in the United States. Honda’s profit on the Fit is further squeezed by a 6.1 percent import duty, while many competing models enter Canada duty-free because they are made in Mexico or the United States.

Honda is building a plant in Mexico that is scheduled to start assembling the Fit for the United States and other countries in early 2014. Honda is likely to use that plant to supply Canada as well, most likely making the importing from China a temporary measure.

Honda has been exporting the Fit from China to 27 countries, mainly in Europe where it is sold as the Jazz, for about five years, so there is no concern in Canada about the quality of its production, Mr. Chenkin said.

“We are fully confident that these vehicles meet all Honda standards,” he said. The company has imported electrical power generators to Canada from Honda plants in China for some time without encountering quality issues or customer resistance, he said.

John Mendel, executive vice president of American Honda, said that there were no plans to supply dealers in the United States with Chinese-made Fits.

Ms. Krebs said Honda and other automakers would have a more difficult time selling cars assembled in China to Americans than to Canadians and Europeans. Although made-in-China products are common in the United States, most cost a small fraction of the price of a car. Even established automakers like Honda are hesitant to risk turning off buyers with Chinese imports, particularly because the United States is an important source of profit and prestige.

“Canada’s always been much more open to cars from places that it was not acceptable for the U.S.,” Ms. Krebs said. “Honda has a production system that it uses every place in the world. Consumers can be pretty confident that the same standards apply.”

Analysts note that American car shoppers were largely skeptical of Japanese and Korean vehicles in their early days here and would tend to react similarly to models made in China, at least initially. A study earlier this year by the consulting firm GfK Automotive found that about one-third of Americans were open to buying a car from China. Younger respondents were more amenable.

The Fit is a relatively small-volume car in Canada, with sales of 2,802 through November. That is down 55 percent from the same period in 2010, largely because of supply shortages in the wake of the earthquake and tsunami in Japan in March.

Honda has a large manufacturing presence in Canada, where it builds the Civic, several Acura models and engines. It is hiring an additional 400 workers in Alliston, Ontario, where production of CR-V sport utility vehicles will begin next month.

Nick Bunkley reported from Detroit and Ian Austen from Ottawa.

[mr_raider]

Nothing new. Look at the trunk hinges on your toyota, the wheels or your GM, or the pastic dash parts on your VW. Chances are, some of the parts are from china.

[defencerulez]

So who wants to buy a Honda Fit now? :facepalm: Is there a discount and they are selling it for less than 10K? :razz:

[ItechJester]

if i remember correctly from school, virtually every car on the roads today have components manufactured in a minimum of 16 different countries. That's not including the gas that comes from the middle east :razz:


so how is this news?

[booblehead]

Somebody confirm if the manual is in English ? :D

[ferkel]

half the parts in my 09 crv are from china.

[JohnB]

Hmmmm, Ive always like the Honda Fit...not enough to buy one since I dont think it would be good on the highway, but I like little cars in concept.

But I wouldnt buy a made in China FIT...Id pay more for the MIJ, its just in my head.

[packardbell]

low content please close

[qaz393]

everything will be made in china soon. very misleading title.

[zzz3]

^^cars made in america, rage! cars made in china, problem? nah.

also does this mean i can get a long wheel base fit with a chauffeur? and 1.5L is too much...

[qaz393]

^^cars made in america, rage! cars made in china, problem? nah.

also does this mean i can get a long wheel base fit with a chauffeur? and 1.5L is too much...

i like the idea of a LWB fit. in china, they have so many LWB cars made specifically for their market. will be interesting to see

[dealsaddict]

Retail for CAN$5000? No? Don't care. Just a higher profit margin for someone else!

Do they make cars in Bangladesh?

[thrifthunter]

It's just an assembly plant in another location, the car will be the same.

[Rainne]

Anything complex (has 8000+ parts) and is assembled in China..= no-no.

[mkjr]

probably not made with genuine parts and come with a side of melamine and some cadmium.

[trixstar]

i'll be extra careful not to accidentally rub against a honda fit.. u can't be too sure about that paint.

[rdha]

You meant "Chinglish"????.... lol[


QUOTE=booblehead;13967704]Somebody confirm if the manual is in English ? :D[/QUOTE]

[rdha]

That's where they use it on their plastics perhaps....hahaha


i'll be extra careful not to accidentally rub against a honda fit.. u can't be too sure about that paint.

[flyz]

Anything complex (has 8000+ parts) and is assembled in China..= no-no.

Tons of people trust their i products. Where are those assembled?

[sandikosh]

I just wasted 3 minutes of my time reading and replying to this useless thread!

[carniver]

Would you call a made-in-USA Corolla an American car? No. This is not a Chinese car.

I'd welcome Chinese-branded cars with open arms. More competition can't hurt.

[booblehead]

Navigation in Chinese and English ?:D

[FrogPrince]

Tons of people trust their i products. Where are those assembled?

There's quite a difference in the level of trust you require from < 1lb communication device and a one tonne machine that travels + 100km/h. No?

[thrifthunter]

There's quite a difference in the level of trust you require from < 1lb communication device and a one tonne machine that travels + 100km/h. No?

What do you think the Japanese just throw them to the wolves untrained?
Honda is not just going to throw their reputation out the window for cheaper labour, the plant will be diligently overseen the same as all their other plants in the world are..

[mangoman]

I wouldn't buy a Chinese manufactured Honda because given the choice, I would rather have a fellow Ontarian (who might be of Chinese descent)/American/Japanese/worker from a country that has proper minimum standards of labour build that vehicle so that we can keep the standard of living in Canada up and keep the higher-skilled jobs here in Canada. If you keep exporting all those types of jobs abroad for cheaper labour (which usually equates to lower worker safety standards), we'll just be a nation of Walmart greeters (nothing wrong with anyone working there, but you can't build an economy if that's the most highly-skilled job).

Send a message to Honda and just don't buy the Chinese-manufactured Honda Fits.

[FrogPrince]

What do you think the Japanese just throw them to the wolves untrained?
Honda is not just going to throw their reputation out the window for cheaper labour, the plant will be diligently overseen the same as all their other plants in the world are..

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that.

[JohnB]

I just wasted 3 minutes of my time reading and replying to this useless thread!

A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.

[dealsaddict]

I wouldn't buy a Chinese manufactured Honda because given the choice, I would rather have a fellow Ontarian (who might be of Chinese descent)/American/Japanese/worker from a country that has proper minimum standards of labour build that vehicle so that we can keep the standard of living in Canada up and keep the higher-skilled jobs here in Canada. If you keep exporting all those types of jobs abroad for cheaper labour (which usually equates to lower worker safety standards), we'll just be a nation of Walmart greeters (nothing wrong with anyone working there, but you can't build an economy if that's the most highly-skilled job).

Send a message to Honda and just don't buy the Chinese-manufactured Honda Fits.

You're more than welcome to donate your OWN money to Ontarian. Wait, some provinces or a province is doing that regardless. :D

And this "high-skilled" job logic, obvious not very high unless it's a very low standard to start with.

[defencerulez]

Which one of the following car win more of your trust?

Honda Fit made in China
Hyundai Accent made in Korea
VW Jetta made in Mexico

Rank them and reason?

[mtlrabbit]

If they sell the Chinese fit $5000 less and meet the safety code (they have to), I will buy it over other NA made subcompact. If they sell the same price, you should boycott Honda, not Chinese. Honda China pay Chinese workers $2.00/hour compare $30 to their NA workers, if Honda charge you same price, you know what to do. The problem of Chinese is they always make thing to meet your price, no matter how low it is.

[thrifthunter]

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that.

Yeah, you keep telling me to tell myself that.

[qaz393]

If they sell the Chinese fit $5000 less and meet the safety code (they have to), I will buy it over other NA made subcompact. If they sell the same price, you should boycott Honda, not Chinese. Honda China pay Chinese workers $2.00/hour compare $30 to their NA workers, if Honda charge you same price, you know what to do. The problem of Chinese is they always make thing to meet your price, no matter how low it is.

production of cars cost nearly the same. can u justify the price of labour in building a Acura TL for 50k vs a honda fit for 18K???? most cost goes back into r&d, marketing etc.....

[dealsaddict]

production of cars cost nearly the same. can u justify the price of labour in building a Acura TL for 50k vs a honda fit for 18K???? most cost goes back into r&d, marketing etc.....

$3000 Tata Nano (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Nano) (w/o RFD effect), comes w/ RWD and front/rear independent suspensions! Looks like none of the suppliers come from India or China!!! Maybe a $1000 car that can be purchased from a vending machine is possible:cheesygri

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Tata_Nano_im_Verkehrszentrum_des_Deutschen_Museums .JPG/800px-Tata_Nano_im_Verkehrszentrum_des_Deutschen_Museums .JPG

[FrogPrince]

Which one of the following car win more of your trust?

Honda Fit made in China
Hyundai Accent made in Korea
VW Jetta made in Mexico

Rank them and reason?

Korea
Mexico






















China

[thrifthunter]

Which one of the following car win more of your trust?

Honda Fit made in China
Hyundai Accent made in Korea
VW Jetta made in Mexico

Rank them and reason?
Honda is and has always been top notch.
Even German made VW's have their share of issues.
Korea has many many years pumped out piece of crap cars, I don't get the hype.

[packardbell]

here comes the china made e-class:)

[dealsaddict]

Korea
Mexico






















China

It was about 30 years ago US automakers ( likely others as well) realized that they can make cars "cheaply" in Mexico and therefore increase their profit margins. What really surprised them and the researchers was the Mexican made cars were not only "cheap" BUT better!

[fredf]

It has more to do with design and engineering than where the car is made.

When I read the title of this thread I thought that Chinese cars were being sold in Canada now. In fact it is Japanese cars sold in Canada...that happen to have Chinese content.

Cars are a world product.

And the title of this thread is completely misleading.

[mikeymike1]

Korea
Mexico






















China

You're being really generous to the Chinese made Honda's. I'd put them way farther down. If fact way below and under the South African made BMW's and Alabama made M-classes

[KorruptioN]

I think this would be a good opportunity for somebody to put a Chinese-made Fit side-by-side with a standard Fit to examine the differences, if any.

[carniver]

You're being really generous to the Chinese made Honda's. I'd put them way farther down. If fact way below and under the South African made BMW's and Alabama made M-classes
And you haven't even seen the actual product. Prejudice is all you know.

[mikeymike1]

And you haven't even seen the actual product. Prejudice is all you know.

It as nothing to do with being prejudice, racially religiously or otherwise
It has to do with quality control and workmanship. I've owned a first gen m-class from Alabama. Never again.
The same goes for quality products made in china. Cheap labour brings cheap skillsets. I'm sure there's lots of qualified engineers in China but they're not going to work for pennies on the line which in fact is the mandate of all the factories and manufacturing facilities in China. That's the sole reason why some companies outsource to China - cheap labour... not technical skillsets.
China's reputation is cheap labour and with that it brings poor quality control. Thats its reputation. Unless you just got out of jail or live under a rock you should know this. Its reputation precedes them

Something worth reading:
http://arabiangazette.com/german-automobile-industry-seeking-engineers/

[mangoman]

Uhhh you can have highly-skilled labour that's dirt-cheap if you don't have minimum labour standards (which is why the labour is so cheap in China - or did you somehow miss what happened to all the Chinese workers at Foxconn committing suicide in their slave-labour work city for Apple or perhaps child-labour?).

You can ignore the obvious but if the majority of people end up working in the service industry, then who are they actually going to serve? If I'm going to buy a Honda regardless, I'd rather consider one made in a country that has such minimum labour standards and if the brand makes it right here in Canada at a plant that usually has higher quality than any other N. American Honda plant, why wouldn't I?

(Full disclosure: I bought a Ford Focus (second ever Ford in the last 30 years in our family) built in Michigan over a Kia/Honda for a couple of reasons, one of which was to support the N. American labour force, the others being design/style/features).


You're more than welcome to donate your OWN money to Ontarian. Wait, some provinces or a province is doing that regardless. :D

And this "high-skilled" job logic, obvious not very high unless it's a very low standard to start with.

[dealsaddict]

Uhhh you can have highly-skilled labour that's dirt-cheap if you don't have minimum labour standards (which is why the labour is so cheap in China - or did you somehow miss what happened to all the Chinese workers at Foxconn committing suicide in their slave-labour work city for Apple or perhaps child-labour?).

You can ignore the obvious but if the majority of people end up working in the service industry, then who are they actually going to serve? If I'm going to buy a Honda regardless, I'd rather consider one made in a country that has such minimum labour standards and if the brand makes it right here in Canada at a plant that usually has higher quality than any other N. American Honda plant, why wouldn't I?

(Full disclosure: I bought a Ford Focus (second ever Ford in the last 30 years in our family) built in Michigan over a Kia/Honda for a couple of reasons, one of which was to support the N. American labour force, the others being design/style/features).

Three quarter of the world is "cheap" and "slavery". Interestingly, it only brought to the "West's " or the better off's attention when some of them start making cars and Apple products either for profits or for fear of losing jobs.

My rule of thumb is buy as "cheap" as possible and take your share of the profit margins! Notice how retailers are responding to complaints of "cheap" China made stuff .... raise the price of the same "cheap" China made stuff:idea:. To appease thinkings/propagandas that include words like "slave" and "cheap", the majority of Canadians take a hit on their purchasing power while only a small minority reap the benefits.

In the end, it's your money, life is short, use it as you please and be happy.

[carniver]

It as nothing to do with being prejudice, racially religiously or otherwise
It has to do with quality control and workmanship. I've owned a first gen m-class from Alabama. Never again.

That's only the fault of MB's shabby management, Honda has been building cars in China for a long time and will not repeat that mistake.

Building cars isn't rocket science. The "highly skilled" workers from UAW is just as clueless if not more than the trained workers from China, in fact the ones from China is likely better since they are the few selected among fierce competition of their men.

[mangoman]

Actually, the problem is because we (the West) have convinced enough in the other countries that it's better to make massive profits "legally" by doing so in the name of corporate profits / share value at the expense of the majority of workers.
Why is it that you don't adopt the view that we allow/convince the other 3/4 of the world to raise their working standards (with the effect that the cost of production will go up)? Doing so does several things:
1) stabilize massive job losses here because there's less of an advantage to export those jobs overseas.
2) moderate our excessive consumption attitude which our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents did not have
3) reduce the possible financial incentives (usually in the form of stock bonuses) available to the executives (if the execs think they can maximize profits which would increase share price by outsourcing labour to countries that don't force them to maintain equivalent labour standards, they will)

When you vote with your dollar by not buying such a product, you're actually doing more for your future and your future standard of living (however short you think it will be).


Three quarter of the world is "cheap" and "slavery". Interestingly, it only brought to the "West's " or the better off's attention when some of them start making cars and Apple products either for profits or for fear of losing jobs.

My rule of thumb is buy as "cheap" as possible and take your share of the profit margins! Notice how retailers are responding to complaints of "cheap" China made stuff .... raise the price of the same "cheap" China made stuff:idea:. To appease thinkings/propagandas that include words like "slave" and "cheap", the majority of Canadians take a hit on their purchasing power while only a small minority reap the benefits.

In the end, it's your money, life is short, use it as you please and be happy.

[mr_raider]

Actually, the problem is because we (the West) have convinced enough in the other countries that it's better to make massive profits "legally" by doing so in the name of corporate profits / share value at the expense of the majority of workers.
Why is it that you don't adopt the view that we allow/convince the other 3/4 of the world to raise their working standards (with the effect that the cost of production will go up)? Doing so does several things:
1) stabilize massive job losses here because there's less of an advantage to export those jobs overseas.
2) moderate our excessive consumption attitude which our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents did not have
3) reduce the possible financial incentives (usually in the form of stock bonuses) available to the executives (if the execs think they can maximize profits which would increase share price by outsourcing labour to countries that don't force them to maintain equivalent labour standards, they will)

When you vote with your dollar by not buying such a product, you're actually doing more for your future and your future standard of living (however short you think it will be).

Dude, you want me to pay more than 3 bucks for a 6 pack of tube socks? Madness!

[mtseymourguy]

I wouldn't buy a Chinese manufactured Honda because given the choice, I would rather have a fellow Ontarian (who might be of Chinese descent)/American/Japanese/worker from a country that has proper minimum standards of labour build that vehicle so that we can keep the standard of living in Canada up and keep the higher-skilled jobs here in Canada. If you keep exporting all those types of jobs abroad for cheaper labour (which usually equates to lower worker safety standards), we'll just be a nation of Walmart greeters (nothing wrong with anyone working there, but you can't build an economy if that's the most highly-skilled job).

Send a message to Honda and just don't buy the Chinese-manufactured Honda Fits.

If you are going to give away a precious family supporting job to a chinese person, give it to a chinese person in china who is at least not getting overpaid and respects his country. Why should a chinese person in canada be making more than a chinese person in china?????

[mangoman]

I don't think I said I did - I never said to pay more for products that are made in sweat shops abroad for peanuts. We were talking about products made by higher-skilled/higher-payed workers, i.e. the Honda Fit to which this thread is talking about.

(Odd that you mentioned the tube socks ... a relative of mine actually used to have a factory right in the GTA and employed Toronto workers during the striped tube sock heyday of the late 70's/early 80's supplying major dept. stores like Sears/JCPenney - he's retired now.) But if you had a pack of tube socks Made in China for $3 and another Made in Canada going for $5, yes I would go for the $5 pack.




Dude, you want me to pay more than 3 bucks for a 6 pack of tube socks? Madness!

[mangoman]

I don't get it - why is a Canadian citizen or Permanent Resident of Chinese descent less respecting of Canada in your eyes?

He should be getting paid more because he is paying taxes to Canada, to the province and city he lives in, thereby supporting the Labour Ministries that we have to ensure that workers are not abused, contributing to maintaining our Healthcare, our Pension Plan, the plowing of your city roads, the services his and your children use like the library/the community pool, need I go on or would you have voted for Ford if you lived in Toronto?



If you are going to give away a precious family supporting job to a chinese person, give it to a chinese person in china who is at least not getting overpaid and respects his country. Why should a chinese person in canada be making more than a chinese person in china?????

[dealsaddict]

Actually, the problem is because we (the West) have convinced enough in the other countries that it's better to make massive profits "legally" by doing so in the name of corporate profits / share value at the expense of the majority of workers.
Why is it that you don't adopt the view that we allow/convince the other 3/4 of the world to raise their working standards (with the effect that the cost of production will go up)? Doing so does several things:
1) stabilize massive job losses here because there's less of an advantage to export those jobs overseas.
2) moderate our excessive consumption attitude which our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents did not have
3) reduce the possible financial incentives (usually in the form of stock bonuses) available to the executives (if the execs think they can maximize profits which would increase share price by outsourcing labour to countries that don't force them to maintain equivalent labour standards, they will)

When you vote with your dollar by not buying such a product, you're actually doing more for your future and your future standard of living (however short you think it will be).

Your "idealistic" meter is way off the chart.

And your view about raising the rest of the world's standards including Chinese, Blacks, Arabs, Persians, indians, Southeast Asians, Muslims, Catholics, etc ... people like mtseymourguy (of low self-esteem/inner worth) will find it objectionable.

[Tacoma]

(Full disclosure: I bought a Ford Focus (second ever Ford in the last 30 years in our family) built in Michigan over a Kia/Honda for a couple of reasons, one of which was to support the N. American labour force, the others being design/style/features).

And while you're supporting the N. American labour force, American's are saying screw you, as they legislate to BUY AMERICAN to protect American workers.

So, instead of buying the Michigan built Ford Focus, you'd do better helping CANADIANS by buying a Toyota Corolla or Matrix built here in Ontario.

[defencerulez]

I don't get it - why is a Canadian citizen or Permanent Resident of Chinese descent less respecting of Canada in your eyes?

He should be getting paid more because he is paying taxes to Canada, to the province and city he lives in, thereby supporting the Labour Ministries that we have to ensure that workers are not abused, contributing to maintaining our Healthcare, our Pension Plan, the plowing of your city roads, the services his and your children use like the library/the community pool, need I go on or would you have voted for Ford if you lived in Toronto?

Regarding immigrants, let me say 1 thing, you will have a lot more respect if you have never moved to GTA and Quebec :) Move to my homeland, in the praries, lots of high paying jobs looking for people all the time, nicer culture over there respecting everybody, but also be prepared to live a mainstream Canadian lifestyle. If I move to Vancouver, I would've became the minority and might be racist against by your folks :razz: GTA is a big mistake for immigrants because for whatever reasons immigrants like to isolate themselves into communities and create that segregation among cultures... I've travelled around quite a bit in North America as a trucker, and I can never understand why immigrants have to keep flooding into GTA, when you can have higher quality life almost anywhere else in Canada...

I personally think Ford is doing a very good job, he's the rare pitbull who fights the public unions fiercely! I'll vote for more of these people in the future, you know, I am the type of guy in my fifties who pay a lot more tax than I deserve and I really don't use much public service living in the country side near Tri-City... Looking back, my decision to accept my company's invitation and take the management job in Ontario like 15 years ago was probably the biggest mistake in my life... I would've had a much better life if I stayed in the praries and the mountains...

[mangoman]

I think you nailed it regarding Rob Ford and your pitbull analogy ... pitbulls will attack everything and anything including the hand that feeds it ... they act without thinking. Usually the end result of that is that they're put down (he just ended any chance of continuing his political career past this term).

I do agree that there is ghetto-ization/self-segregation among immigrants in the GTA though. I think what you're missing is part of the "why" it has occurred/continues to occur. In the past (and it still occurs), "previous generation" immigrant Canadians (read: non-visible minorities), refused to recognize international experience and education, or if they did they refused to pay those immigrants the same salary as someone born here with the same levels of educ. and experience (I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of the reason why your co. offered you the position rather than someone who might be from a more recent immigrant background). So when they found a place to live that they could afford, naturally they would relay that same info to newcomers from the same background. Eventually, specialty stores/services opened up because they saw the opportunity in being located close to the customer base. That in turn had spillover effects. Kind of the same argument as to why you want those Hondas to be built here in Canada/N.America - those higher paying jobs with better working conditions lead to more disposable income to be spent in the community.

Now you don't just have "fringe" businesses catering to immigrants and because enough have clawed their way up the ladder and are in a position to hire, there is actually less discrimination in the private sector (relative to the cities like Ottawa) and new immigrants know from what they've been told by the other members in their community.

Wonder what the native people of Canada think about how your view of "integration" seeing as you (or your parents) didn't adopt their views.


Regarding immigrants, let me say 1 thing, you will have a lot more respect if you have never moved to GTA and Quebec :) Move to my homeland, in the praries, lots of high paying jobs looking for people all the time, nicer culture over there respecting everybody, but also be prepared to live a mainstream Canadian lifestyle. If I move to Vancouver, I would've became the minority and might be racist against by your folks :razz: GTA is a big mistake for immigrants because for whatever reasons immigrants like to isolate themselves into communities and create that segregation among cultures... I've travelled around quite a bit in North America as a trucker, and I can never understand why immigrants have to keep flooding into GTA, when you can have higher quality life almost anywhere else in Canada...

I personally think Ford is doing a very good job, he's the rare pitbull who fights the public unions fiercely! I'll vote for more of these people in the future, you know, I am the type of guy in my fifties who pay a lot more tax than I deserve and I really don't use much public service living in the country side near Tri-City... Looking back, my decision to accept my company's invitation and take the management job in Ontario like 15 years ago was probably the biggest mistake in my life... I would've had a much better life if I stayed in the praries and the mountains...

[mangoman]

Or any other Honda built here as opposed to one built in a country where there are such shoddy labour standards - thanks for backing up my argument.

Some Americans are trying to implement "buy 'merican" clauses because they're blinded/misguided somewhat like you are. But if you educate, folks will learn. If you only buy Canadian products, does that help the Americans? If they're not selling to us, then won't their bottom lines get hurt and force them to consider shutting the Cdn. arms of their manufacturing lines?
Instead spread the wealth - all I'm saying is try to buy from a manufacturer that treats its employees fairly whether that's here in Canada/US/Mexico/Germany/Japan or even one day in China (the point is that if they do then the product won't be dirt cheap/disposable - it doesn't need to be exhorbitantly expensive either to have been manufactured "fairly").



And while you're supporting the N. American labour force, American's are saying screw you, as they legislate to BUY AMERICAN to protect American workers.

So, instead of buying the Michigan built Ford Focus, you'd do better helping CANADIANS by buying a Toyota Corolla or Matrix built here in Ontario.

[Rainne]

The thing about Chinese "built" cars is they'll eventually start sourcing more and more parts/materia from China to reduce costs.

Companies will do anything to increase profit margins while remaining seemingly reputable despite decline in quality.

[azn_dan]

i'm in for one, why isn't this chinese car deal thread in the hot deals ;)

[navyseals]

Quality will be just as good. It's the quality control that matter, not the country it's made in. I've been in a BMW that was made in China, it was exactly the same as North American ones.