[Merged] "Standard tip in Toronto restaurants now 20 per cent": Toronto.com

[shahn2]

What BS is this? >:(

http://www.toronto.com/article/710035



A 20 per cent tip could be the new normal.

A small but growing number of Toronto restaurants are urging customers to tip more than the customary 15 per cent.

Diners at new Roncesvalles Ave. restaurants The Westerly and The Ace are prompted to tip 20 per cent on their bill when paying with credit and debit cards on handheld terminals.

“We feel we are providing great service. Waiters don’t get paid too much,” said Tom Earl, co-owner of The Westerly.

Machines are programmed to accept tips as a dollar amount or as a percentage of the bill after tax. Customers can change the suggested percentage.


When the service is exceptional, I DO tip 20%. Asking a default of 20% is way to presumptuous of them.
Most restaurants provide barely adequate service and now they want to up the tip to 20%?!?!?!!?
The restaurants just need to pay the wait staff better if they really feel strongly about them!

[ronin1701]

“We feel we are providing great service. Waiters don’t get paid too much,” said Tom Earl, co-owner of The Westerly.

And who's responsibility is it to pay their staff? Nice .....


“It’s not a sneaky thing nor is it an expectation. I always tip at least 20 per cent when I go out” said Greg Boggs, co-owner of The Ace.

I call B.S. on hat one.


“About time,” tweeted Mike Christie of Toronto. “It’s customary in other big cities, like New York.”

Of course, the minimum wage in NYC is lower than here, AND the cost of living is higher.

[ronin1701]

When the service is exceptional, I DO tip 20%. Asking a default of 20% is way to presumptuous of them.
Most restaurants provide barely adequate service and now they want to up the tip to 20%?!?!?!!?
The restaurants just need to pay the wait staff better if they really feel strongly about them!

+1

Agree 100%. It's the responsibility of management to ensure that staff are paid adequately. Yes, it's true that in the end all costs are passed through to the diners, one way or another, but at least we'd be able to decide whether or not to go to that restaurant based on the posted prices.

If I were ever handed a terminal prompting me to pay 20%, I'd just change it back to whatever I felt was reasonable. 15% is my "default" at full-service restaurants, 10% at serve-yourself buffets, and adjust up and down depending on the quality of service.

And you're right - it's incredibly presumptuous of them. Let the diner decide - if the service is really that awesome, then I have no problem tipping at that level, and have done so in the past. Otherwise this becomes less of a reward for good service, and more of an entitlement.

[Gmas]

“We feel we are providing great service. Waiters don’t get paid too much,” said Tom Earl, co-owner of The Westerly.

Reads as "We don't pay our staff enough so we're asking customers to make up for that and tip them more."

So I'd really like to hear the justification for this new higher tip % - has the service gotten better over the past few years? What more am I now getting for that extra tip I'm giving?

[exiledinottawa]

20% is fine, if you can't afford to tip that much...eat at home or go to McDonalds. I'm not a rich guy but 20% is what I usually tip if the service is good

[ronin1701]

20% is fine, if you can't afford to tip that much...eat at home or go to McDonalds. I'm not a rich guy but 20% is what I usually tip if the service is good

Is that just you, or is that the Quebec standard?

Either way, this is how tip inflation starts. What starts as a reward becomes an entitlement.

It's not about being cheap. It's not our responsibility to pay the staff adequate wages, it's management's.

People (i.e. mostly Americans) talk about the British being cheap tippers, but have you ever noticed:

Restaurant wages (relative to local cost of living): Australia > UK > Canada > U.S.

Tip expectation: U.S. > Canada > UK > Australia

[4flava]

This "tipping culture" is really getting outta hand. Servers are paid to SERVE and that's the bottom line. You tip when someone goes outta their way to do something out of their realm of responsibilities. Go to Japan and try to tip and see what happens.

Geez, nowadays you go out to have a $100 meal and it comes out to $133. I surely will not be going to any restaurants that DEMAND a 20% tip.

[ahujie]

I can understand the tipping culture in America, where servers make as little as $2-$3 per hour in most states. Tips can make or break these people's lives.

However, in Ontario, servers make about $9 per hour ($8.90 to be exact).
Source: http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pubs/guide/minwage.php

Still less than minimum wage, but not as pathetic as in the States. So in Canada, they realistically only need to earn about $2/hour in tips to bring them back up to min wage. However, most servers I know make more than $2/hour in tips, even after tip out. And even if customers on average tip 10-15%, they will still reach the min wage threshold. Especially in downtown T.O restaurants, even chains like Oliver and Bonacini.

My former room mate easily pulls in $20/hour ($8.90 + tips) at a suburban Kelsey's if people only tip 10-15%. And she still complains about those that tip less than 15%. It really is a sense of entitlement that is pervasive throughout the industry now.

[booblehead]

Another hot debate topic on tipping once again ...


Sure, I will tip 20% but at the same time, I expect the menu prices come down 20% ... Is this going to happen ? Unlikely ! Therefore, same goes for the answer for tipping. :razz:

I always tip 15% (90% of the time).

[Rainne]

Lol, I understand serving is a difficult job but,

Normal service (ex: most Asian restaurants such as Pho) where they simply take your order, bring your food (sort of like a robot) - 10% tip

Above average service - places where the waiters actually greet you with a friendly, "Hi, how are you this evening?" and attempt to make small talk and tend to your needs, ex: "Would you like more water?" - 15-20+% tip.

Rude service - no tip + never go there again

A waiter's job is to serve, hence, customer service. If you can't be a professional and do the minimum requirements of your job (ex: be friendly, courteous and willing to please), don't expect 20% tips. If that's too much for your pride, you're in the wrong industry.

[4flava]

I can understand the tipping culture in America, where servers make as little as $2-$3 per hour in most states. Tips can make or break these people's lives.

However, in Ontario, servers make about $9 per hour ($8.90 to be exact).
Source: http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pubs/guide/minwage.php

Still less than minimum wage, but not as pathetic as in the States. So in Canada, they realistically only need to earn about $2/hour in tips to bring them back up to min wage. However, most servers I know make more than $2/hour in tips, even after tip out. And even if customers on average tip 10-15%, they will still reach the min wage threshold. Especially in downtown T.O restaurants, even chains like Oliver and Bonacini.

My former room mate easily pulls in $20/hour ($8.90 + tips) at a suburban Kelsey's if people only tip 10-15%. And she still complains about those that tip less than 15%. It really is a sense of entitlement that is pervasive throughout the industry now.

I agree but why does the customer have to pay the Restaurant employee wages?

Hey I don't mind tipping and I actually tip very well but it just bothers me that a "Tip" which should be voluntary is now more like a mandatory service fee inorder to be served accordingly.

[Punisher]

I can't remember the last time I had great service at a restaurant (talking about average restaurants here and not the high-end). Far too often the wait staff is unattentive, doesn't check in during the meal, and in general isn't proactive enough in ensuring that I'm being satisfied. How difficult is it to notice when my beverage is low and fill it up as needed without me asking for it.

I have no problem tipping 20% when the service is great but now a days we have been programmed to tip 15% when the service is mediocre at best.

[shahn2]

20% is fine, if you can't afford to tip that much...eat at home or go to McDonalds. I'm not a rich guy but 20% is what I usually tip if the service is good

And what do you do when the service is NOT good? When you have to wait long to get your order or haul someone down or have someone talk back at you?
My experience has been that mediocre service is the norm at the chain restaurants, rather than the exception.
And I refuse to pay 20% tips for mediocre service.

Are there any restaurants in TO where tips are refused by the waiters? Where the wait staff is paid by the restaurant? I would happily visit them if the restaurant is somewhat good.

[matdwyer]

I tip 15% when the service is good/OK and 5% when it is bad. I understand that everyone has bad days, crap happens, etc. Don't think I've ever left no tip.

You'd have to be pretty phenomenal to get 20-25% (i.e. comping drinks, bringing extras, entertaining etc).

Sometime tells me that the association of food servers in Canada has hired a PR firm to push stories like this - if the average that most people tip is 15% (which I think it pretty well is) then that's the standard, not what an article or restaurant suggests

[mbg]

Seems excessive... I thought the standard tip was 10%?


A 20 per cent tip could be the new normal.

A small but growing number of Toronto restaurants are urging customers to tip more than the customary 15 per cent.

Diners at new Roncesvalles Ave. restaurants The Westerly and The Ace are prompted to tip 20 per cent on their bill when paying with credit and debit cards on handheld terminals.

source: http://www.toronto.com/article/710035?bn=1

[divx]

Tipping is BS, they should just raise their menu prices and pay their server more. If anyone ever "tipped" me for my work it would be called a bribe.

[Crinkle_cut]

Seems excessive... I thought the standard tip was 10%?



source: http://www.toronto.com/article/710035?bn=1

We should be more like Australia, where they don't tip. The servers there are paid a decent hourly wage though.

[Pho6]

Wow.. and here I am still paying only 10% tip everytime....

[kennyhohoho]

Seems excessive... I thought the standard tip was 10%?



source: http://www.toronto.com/article/710035?bn=1

They can "urge" for 100% tip for all I care.

10% is the standard, and should always be the standard for average service.

Seems stupid to me. That's sure to leave a sour taste in the mouth of prospective customers. Especially those who accidentally skip over it and are automatically charged 20% without realizing it. I know if it were me I'd avoid going to those restaurants again.

[Montague]

A 20 per cent tip could be the new normal.

A small but growing number of Toronto restaurants are urging customers to tip more than the customary 15 per cent.

Diners at new Roncesvalles Ave. restaurants The Westerly and The Ace are prompted to tip 20 per cent on their bill when paying with credit and debit cards on handheld terminals.
How about those restaurants themselves instead pay their own workers the difference.;)

[DiceMan]

Seem's way to presumptuous to "suggest" a tip of 20 percent. If it's at the descretion of the customer, they should set it at 10 and let the customer work up.

My standard is still 15% and I don't mind tipping more if warranted. It's distasteful to me to be dictated 20%.

[suffocate]

Seem's way to presumptuous to "suggest" a tip of 20 percent. If it's at the descretion of the customer, they should set it at 10 and let the customer work up.

My standard is still 15% and I don't mind tipping more if warranted. It's distasteful to me to be dictated 20%.
THIS ^

[ronin1701]

Tipping by %age of bill, although the accepted convention, has always seemed strange to me. Think about it:

Scenario A:

Mom-and-pop restaurant, dinner for 2: $30 bill (pre-tax), great service, you tip 20% = $6.00

Scenario B:

Mid-range restaurant, dinner for 2: $50 bill (pre-tax), good service, you tip 15% = $7.50

Scenario C:

High-end (read: expensive) place, dinner for 2: $100 bill (pre-tax), satisfactory (but unexceptional) service, you tip 10% = $10.00

Bizarre, right?

While I agree that total bill is being used as a proxy for effort (on the basis that ceteris paribus a higher bill = more quantity of food and drink = more effort involved in serving it to you), that basis doesn't really hold up when the restaurants compared are apples and oranges price-wise.

And when you think about it, shouldn't it be the pricey restaurants that can actually afford to pay their staff higher wages in the first place?

[angekfire]

I find it just as ridiculous as when fast food places prompt for a tip when using debit or credit. They used to do it at quizno's. "You made me a sandwich, I paid for said sandwich. What is the service here being performed that deserves a tip?"

[partytime2009]

I tip based on service:

Bad service = 0%
Average service = 10%
Above average = 15%
Good service = 20%
Exceptional service = 25-40%

I don't care whether it is mandatory or not. I will pay base on service.

[tighty whities]

looks like they want customers to cover the interchange fees.

[ronin1701]

Sometime tells me that the association of food servers in Canada has hired a PR firm to push stories like this - if the average that most people tip is 15% (which I think it pretty well is) then that's the standard, not what an article or restaurant suggests

This kinda reminds me of how "3 months salary" is now becoming the standard for wedding rings, when it used to be "2 months salary" not so long ago (and even that was just an invention by De Beers (http://www.debeers.com/), which came up with the original "1 month salary rule" as a marketing ploy to sell more diamonds!).

[suffocate]

I find it just as ridiculous as when fast food places prompt for a tip when using debit or credit. They used to do it at quizno's. "You made me a sandwich, I paid for said sandwich. What is the service here being performed that deserves a tip?"

THIS ^ (as well)

The same can be said for tipping people who make you a coffee at Tim Hortons. (Anytime I've left change behind at Mcd for coffee it promptly gets dropped in the donation box. )

[flashy_mcflash]

I don't understand the furor about this. It's a debit machine that gives you the OPTION to pay 20%. I've seen these all over the place, and you can put in 10%, 15%, 20%, or pick your own amount. What's the big deal? Pay what you want.

[manmanny]

I think is US they have to pay 20% or 25% if the bill is over 100,000/-
Anyhoo Chara get big bucks.

http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/bruins-receipt.jpg

I

[4flava]

LOL this reminds of a CAB ride that I took in Chicago. I had no cash so I paid by CC. My 3 options for tip was 20%, 30% and 40% and no options for no tip. :|

[ronin1701]

I don't understand the furor about this. It's a debit machine that gives you the OPTION to pay 20%. I've seen these all over the place, and you can put in 10%, 15%, 20%, or pick your own amount. What's the big deal? Pay what you want.

The furor is that the restaurants are now pushing the 20% tip as a "standard". Yes, you can adjust what's on the machine, but how many people will bother (I would, but I also know some who probably wouldn't even pay attention and just pay it).

Would you be as forgiving if Rogers decided to bring back negative-option billing? Because that's precisely what this is.

Also, most POS terminals, when they give you the option to pay a %, calculates it on the after-tax amount not the pre-tax. So you need to be doubly careful and make sure to enter a fixed $ amount rather than a %.

[flashy_mcflash]

The furor is that the restaurants are now pushing the 20% tip as a "standard". Yes, you can adjust what's on the machine, but how many people will bother (I would, but I also know some who probably wouldn't even pay attention and just pay it).


You're forced to choose, so I think everyone, literally 100% of people, will bother. I haven't seen one that 'pushes' 20%, but maybe this is some new thing. Still though, I can't imagine most restaurants trading in their POS machines for some other one that suggests 20% as the norm.

[4flava]

repost: http://forums.redflagdeals.com/standard-tip-toronto-restaurants-now-20-per-cent-toronto-com-1132073/

[feidailo]

Ive worked in restaurants before, and if u havent, then ur ignorant about tipping. In the states, its 15-20 percent for average. Auto-grat is roughly 17-18% for large parties. Here in Canada, its less, like 10-15%. Tipping is strictly an American/Canadian thing, but if you want to be like other countries, we can jack up every single item on the menu, and have the servers being paid $15-20 an hour. People who never tip and think their bigshots because of it are generally viewed as *********s. I for one support the 20% standard. Like I said, if you have never worked in the service industry, then you dont know what a *****ty feeling it is to give a customer your very best service, only to be stiffed.

[ronin1701]

You're forced to choose, so I think everyone, literally 100% of people, will bother. I haven't seen one that 'pushes' 20%, but maybe this is some new thing. Still though, I can't imagine most restaurants trading in their POS machines for some other one that suggests 20% as the norm.

The newer POS terminals should be custom programmable. I've also seen a couple that "suggested" a tip for me >:(

[deltone]

How about those restaurants themselves instead pay their own workers the difference.;)

People can debate this until the cows come home and there will never be an agreement by all so at the end of the day, you jjust tip what you want as there is no law, just guidelines. Your suggestion really makes no sense though because you do know that if the restaurant's expenses (ie wages) go up, the cost of your food goes up right? I mean you do know that restaurants are there to make a profit, right? You do know that the restaurant owner isn't going to eat the increase in their payroll, right?

I'm in the US right now and I had an interesting conversation with our waiter at a Bonefish Grille, a really nice but affordaable seafood restaurant. The guy told me that they make $2.35 an hour. Yep, you read that right. I had also heard that before from some other people and he confirmed it. Not only that, an assumption is made that they will make a certain percentage of their total sales for the day. Whatever that assumption is, they must give a certain percentage to the kitchen staff, and to the bus staff, and the bartender etc. Also, while I don't remember exactly how he explained it but that certain assumption that he made tips based on his sales is what he is taxed on and that money (the tax amount)is automatically deducted from his salary. He must also claim these tips at the end of the year, on his tax based on what the assumption of that certain percentage is, even if he didn't make that much in tips. Again, I'm not explaining it exactly how he described it to me but it was pretty shocking. This is in the US though.

Oh, and a big joke in the US amongst serving staff is "what is the difference between a Canadian and a canoe?"















A conoe tips. :D

[zz000ter]

Pay the servers a decent wage
Forget about tipping

Through the tipping system servers earn a lot of money!

Consider this - each server serves 10 tables of 2 per hour and each meal is $60.
That is a billable $600
15% of $600 is $90

$90 per hour is not too bad!

[4flava]

Ive worked in restaurants before, and if u havent, then ur ignorant about tipping. In the states, its 15-20 percent for average. Auto-grat is roughly 17-18% for large parties. Here in Canada, its less, like 10-15%. Tipping is strictly an American/Canadian thing, but if you want to be like other countries, we can jack up every single item on the menu, and have the servers being paid $15-20 an hour. People who never tip and think their bigshots because of it are generally viewed as *********s. I for one support the 20% standard. Like I said, if you have never worked in the service industry, then you dont know what a *****ty feeling it is to give a customer your very best service, only to be stiffed.

Sure, jack it up! you work for the restaurant and therefore they should be paying your wage not the customers. I'm sure you would also support 25%, 30%, 35%, 40% tips etc and I don't blame ya. :razz:

[4flava]

Pay the servers a decent wage
Forget about tipping

Through the tipping system servers earn a lot of money!

Consider this - each server serves 10 tables of 2 per hour and each meal is $60.
That is a billable $600
15% of $600 is $90

$90 per hour is not too bad!


To be fair, servers don't pocket everything themselves. They must split with the kitchen and so on.

[epik89]

from people i've known that worked in several restaurants

they all have told me they usually make 15-20 dollars an hour if you include tips

and of course the minimum is 8 something for servers.

id say thats pretty decent

[ronin1701]

I'm in the US right now and I had an interesting conversation with our waiter at a Bonefish Grille, a really nice but affordaable seafood restaurant. The guy told me that they make $2.35 an hour. Yep, you read that right. I had also heard that before from some other people and he confirmed it. Not only that, an assumption is made that they will make a certain percentage of their total sales for the day. Whatever that assumption is, they must give a certain percentage to the kitchen staff, and to the bus staff, and the bartender etc. Also, while I don't remember exactly how he explained it but that certain assumption that he made tips based on his sales is what he is taxed on and that money (the tax amount)is automatically deducted from his salary. He must also claim these tips at the end of the year, on his tax based on what the assumption of that certain percentage is, even if he didn't make that much in tips. Again, I'm not explaining it exactly how he described it to me but it was pretty shocking. This is in the US though.


That's pretty much how it's done in Canada as well.


Oh, and a big joke in the US amongst serving staff is "what is the difference between a Canadian and a canoe?"

A conoe tips. :D

I'd hate to find out what they think of the Brits and Aussies, who tip even less.

As stated before:

Restaurant wages (relative to local cost of living): Australia > UK > Canada > U.S.

Tip expectation: U.S. > Canada > UK > Australia

Notice a pattern? :lol:

I used to think my Dad was cheap, because he would tip 10% for good service, but now that I think about it, I understand better - he comes from a country where there's very little expectations as regards tips, so in his mind 10% is probably being pretty generous already (of course, tip expectations in Canada also used to be lower back in the day ....)

[Aznsilvrboy]

I am in favor of jacking up the price on menus and getting rid of the "servers" minimum wage, and get rid of the tipping culture. Let the servers earn the general minimum wage or whatever the restaurant is willing to pay them and let the restaurants price their items accordingly.

[gilboman]

Ive worked in restaurants before, and if u havent, then ur ignorant about tipping. In the states, its 15-20 percent for average. Auto-grat is roughly 17-18% for large parties. Here in Canada, its less, like 10-15%. Tipping is strictly an American/Canadian thing, but if you want to be like other countries, we can jack up every single item on the menu, and have the servers being paid $15-20 an hour. People who never tip and think their bigshots because of it are generally viewed as *********s. I for one support the 20% standard. Like I said, if you have never worked in the service industry, then you dont know what a *****ty feeling it is to give a customer your very best service, only to be stiffed.

tipping is expected in china/hong kong as well, it's automatically charged on your bill and you tip in addition to that. In china they hustle you for tips

[feidailo]

tipping is expected in china/hong kong as well, it's automatically charged on your bill and you tip in addition to that. In china they hustle you for tips

if thats true then stand corrected, but thats even worse than north america lol

[ronin1701]

tipping is expected in china/hong kong as well, it's automatically charged on your bill and you tip in addition to that.

Since when? Hong Kong does have a tip expectation, but it's pretty low, usually on the order of under 5%, maybe 10% if the service was really good and you're familiar to them. And I've never had a tip automatically added to my bill.


In china they hustle you for tips

And there's even less of an expectation in China (or maybe that's changing - I haven't been to the Mainland in ten years). Perhaps this is yet another example of "Western culture" permeating its way into the PRC, because it was never like that in the past.

On my last trip there, back in 2001, I remember having a meal with some friends in Chengdu - the service there was exceptional, and we were also having language issues (we all speak Cantonese, but virtually no Mandarin) but the staff was super patient and helpful. Even though we were well aware that no tip was expected, we left one anyways, something like around 5% of the bill - a small but unexpected amount to show our appreciation. As we were leaving, we had one of the staff run after us with the money, because they thought we'd left it behind by mistake!

So maybe it's more of a Beijing/Shanghai thing, and less so out in the boonies?? And/or a sign of the changing times.


if thats true then stand corrected, but thats even worse than north america lol

No, you were generally correct. It's only in Canada and the U.S. where tipping has truly become akin to an "entitlement".

That's why I like to use the UK and Australia as examples, because in most respects we're culturally similar, but not as far as tipping goes. Tipping does occur in the UK and Aus, but it's a much smaller amount. In the UK it's more like 5-10%, although I suppose in places like London it's probably inflated to 15-20% or more because of all the American tourists and businessmen (not to mention more than a few Russian Oil Oligarchs :lol:). In Australia, there's generally no expectation of a tip because their wait staff are paid fairly well already.

[feidailo]

Pay the servers a decent wage
Forget about tipping

Through the tipping system servers earn a lot of money!

Consider this - each server serves 10 tables of 2 per hour and each meal is $60.
That is a billable $600
15% of $600 is $90

$90 per hour is not too bad!

holy crap! 10 tables in a single hour! 15 percent EH?
i can tell uve worked restaurants before.
oh and forget about the host, busboy, bartender, maybe barback, kitchen, etc, they dont get tipout.
that 90 dollars an hour is exactly wut every single server in every single restaurant makes.
cant wait for the mandatory 20%.

[Rainne]

LOL

Mandatory 20%??

What a joke.

Meal price + 13% HST + 20% on top of that LOL

[gilboman]

Since when? Hong Kong does have a tip expectation, but it's pretty low, usually on the order of under 5%, maybe 10% if the service was really good and you're familiar to them. And I've never had a tip automatically added to my bill.

It's been like that for years, but fwiw, I just got back yesterday. 10% service charge is automatically added at "full service" restaurants. You don't have to tip at those cheap noodle places or fast food. I'm not talking about nice places, just a run of the mill restaurant that doesn't require you to share a table lol

But seriously, HKG's been a 10% service charge since I was a kid 20+ years ago in addition to all the bogus "tea, table cloth and sauce fees"




And there's even less of an expectation in China (or maybe that's changing - I haven't been to the Mainland in ten years). Perhaps this is yet another example of "Western culture" permeating its way into the PRC, because it was never like that in the past.

Again, service charge of 10% automatically added at "full" service restaurants and tip boxes were huge and everywhere at massage places and for services used, the signoff sheet had tip preselected for you to choose and it was well above 10% range.



On my last trip there, back in 2001, I remember having a meal with some friends in Chengdu - the service there was exceptional, and we were also having language issues (we all speak Cantonese, but virtually no Mandarin) but the staff was super patient and helpful. Even though we were well aware that no tip was expected, we left one anyways, something like around 5% of the bill - a small but unexpected amount to show our appreciation. As we were leaving, we had one of the staff run after us with the money, because they thought we'd left it behind by mistake!

So maybe it's more of a Beijing/Shanghai thing, and less so out in the boonies?? And/or a sign of the changing times.

I didn't even go to PEK, this was just in zhong san, SZ, GZ areas. I don't think it has anything to do with western influence, it's just service is getting better and quality is improving and you're going to have to pay for it. China of 2011 despite all its faults is a lot better than China of 2001 so of course you are going to have to pay for service standards and qualities that are comparable to western standards.

The world is changing, no point holding on to the past, otherwise, you'll be saying a quarter used to buy you a car and you walked to school uphill 10kms each day in deep snow :lol:

[sandikosh]

I always tip 10%, nothing more. To me it doesn't matter what class is the restaurant.

[ronin1701]

China of 2011 despite all its faults is a lot better than China of 2001 so of course you are going to have to pay for service standards and qualities that are comparable to western standards.

If you have to pay extra to get good service, then it's not really service at all, it's more like a bribe, right?

Just because the 鬼佬 do it, doesn't mean it's automatically the right thing to do.

And the restaurant I went to in the above anecdote wasn't exactly a hole in the wall, either ....

[rageking]

The only 2 restaurants trying to make this the new norm are:
The Westerly and The Ace; owned by Tom Earl, and Greg Boggs.

They suckered the media into making it sound like every restaurant's on board on this one. Based on the article, it looks like the only motivation is for the owners of these 2 places to pay the same or less to their waiters while getting the clients to pay more. When did the media get so bloody stupid? 2 restaurants, looks like the owners know each other very well, and suddenly the media is saying 20% might be the new norm?!

Boycott The Westerly and The Ace owned by Tom Earl, and Greg Boggs and see if these vampires dont get their fair due.

[mbg]

20% is fine, if you can't afford to tip that much...eat at home or go to McDonalds. I'm not a rich guy but 20% is what I usually tip if the service is good

I've heard this from people before -- stay home if you can't afford a big tip.

If that's the cost then they should charge it.

They way they are trying to do it here is to lure you in with a price they consider too low and then try to use social pressure to coerce you to pay more than they are asking, and by making you the one who's supposed to feel sorry for the waiter... that they won't get paid enough if you don't pay more than the menu price.

I'm not against tipping, but I'm against mandated tipping and especially those places that automatically add it to your bill and hope you won't notice.

[mbg]

Anyone know a restaurant that give a happy ending?

[deltone]

I think one of the problems with this whole tipping issue is that the Canadian servers are forgetting that their situation is very different from their American counterparts, due to the huge difference in hourly salary, and the big difference in menu prices. Also, if they are looking for a "raise" due to the cost of living, they are failing to realize that their raise is already built in to the rise in restaurant prices. I have noticed that most restaurants have increased their prices a lot over the past couple of years, and yes, a lot of it is understandable as their food costs and all other expenses have gone up so they have to pass it on to the customer and they do that by raising prices. So, if let's say a typical dinner for two cost $45 a year ago, and now it's $55 (due to menu increase and tax increase) the 15% of $45 back then was $6.75 but now the 15% of $55 is $8.25, a tidy increase of $1.50. Not bad considering many people haven't had a raise. Every time the restaurant increases it's price, it pretty much assures the server gets a raise.

Also, in comparison to the US, the meal prices here are much less. Case in point, I had lunch the other day at a popular restaurant called TGIF, or Fridays. They have a lunch special that is $6.99 and that includes unlimited bread sticks, soup, salad and a soft drink or coffee. Also the taxes are less so the overall bill is less. The bill was something like $16.00 so the 15% tip would be $2.40 and a 20% tip would be $3.20 whereas in Canada, a typical similar meal, at say Kelseys, where the lunch trio is $9.99, soft drink is $2.99 so for 2 with tax that would be $29.33 so with a 15% tip it would be $4.40 and a 20% tip it would be $5.86 so it's quite a bit more that the Canadian server makes, as well as the fact that they make a lot more per hour.

The other thing I notice is that for the most part (but certainly not always) the servers in the US are far more attentive and much better and I suppose it's because they know that if they're not they won't make a good tip and when you're making just over $2 an hour, you obviously depend on the tip.

[ronin1701]

Anyone know a restaurant that give a happy ending?

Gilboman probably knows a few :razz::


Again, service charge of 10% automatically added at "full" service restaurants and tip boxes were huge and everywhere at massage places and for services used, the signoff sheet had tip preselected for you to choose and it was well above 10% range.

[36469]

I disagree with the 20% tip but I also disagree on making food prices higher. It's already expensive to go out, if prices go up, we have no option but to pay it; that, or save money and stay at home. The amount that you tip is flexible and that's how it should stay.

My rule of thumb: usually for average service, I tip the HST (13%) I pay plus a little more so it comes to about 15%.

[kookoo]

I hate Toronto and the pretentious attitude it forces upon the rest of us. It took me a while to get used to 15% and now I tip that amount for dinner all the time. 20% is ridiculous though.

If everyone didn't go out because they couldn't afford the tip, restaurants would go out of business. I am almost certain, deep, deep down, people hate paying tip. Especially when the server is terrible.

[kookoo]

Question for you guys though. Do you pay % on pre or taxed amounts?

[Sibica]

Aussies don't tip, period. It isn't a part of their culture and many of them view it as offensive. The first time I moved there, I was unaware and tipped the waitress. She looked at me, smiled and asked where I was from. In the end, she didn't take the tip. That being said their wages (service industry, anyway) are a lot higher than here. Example, working in a KMart will get you close to $20 an hour. Bartender, unskilled, new to the job: $20/hr cash. Grocery store? Same thing. McD's: starting pay was something like $15. Blockbuster: $17 an hour.... you get the picture.

But in saying that, their standard of living is much higher than here...

[ronin1701]

Question for you guys though. Do you pay % on pre or taxed amounts?

I'm tipping them for the food and service provided, not on an arbitrary amount set by the government, so always pre-tax. Especially since the tax amount will vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

If a POS terminal set to % charges on the after-tax bill, it's either a) a technological failure (since the terminal generally can't tell what the pre- and post-tax amounts are), or b) someone getting greedy.

[ronin1701]

I hate Toronto and the pretentious attitude it forces upon the rest of us. It took me a while to get used to 15% and now I tip that amount for dinner all the time. 20% is ridiculous though.

If everyone didn't go out because they couldn't afford the tip, restaurants would go out of business. I am almost certain, deep, deep down, people hate paying tip. Especially when the server is terrible.

Seriously? You're blaming this on Toronto? Pretentious folk exist everywhere - I'm sure rich pretentious folk in Vancouver or the Oil Patch are just as bad. If you scan through this thread, I'm sure most of the people complaining about this entitlement culture are from GTA.

And why are you leaving a tip when the service is terrible? That reinforces the sense of entitlement more than any pretentious-type ever could.

[_Allan_]

It's not a tip (I.e. you shoe is untied.). It is a gratuity that I pay...
Definition of GRATUITY
: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service.

I will graciously give a gratuity of 10%-15% if the server is attentive, hygenic (doesn't stink of BO or cigarette), and smiles at least once.
For a taxi, I don't bother with tips anymore. I've seen too many pulls thick wads of cash from their pockets.

[kookoo]

Seriously? You're blaming this on Toronto? Pretentious folk exist everywhere - I'm sure rich pretentious folk in Vancouver or the Oil Patch are just as bad. If you scan through this thread, I'm sure most of the people complaining about this entitlement culture are from GTA.

And why are you leaving a tip when the service is terrible? That reinforces the sense of entitlement more than any pretentious-type ever could.

Yeah, you're right. Maybe I spoke without thinking on that one. I tip 15% because the money doesn't just go to the waitress (at least from what I know, through people that work in the industry) and bar backs and so on shouldn't be screwed over because someone is having a bad day (or just a terrible person).


It's not a tip (I.e. you shoe is untied.). It is a gratuity that I pay...
Definition of GRATUITY
: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service.

I will graciously give a gratuity of 10%-15% if the server is attentive, hygenic (doesn't stink of BO or cigarette), and smiles at least once.
For a taxi, I don't bother with tips anymore. I've seen too many pulls thick wads of cash from their pockets.

I thought it was called tip because they're only screwing you out of a little bit of your money :D

[DiceMan]

Question for you guys though. Do you pay % on pre or taxed amounts?

Pre-tax for me.

[LostInTruth]

Currently, I tip regardless of service (I.E. we're all human and we've all had bad days). Now, if it's repeat bad service then the tip will go down.

If I can afford to go out, then I don't have a problem with tipping someone for their service, or else I would have stayed home.

[slowtyper]

Since when? Hong Kong does have a tip expectation, but it's pretty low, usually on the order of under 5%, maybe 10% if the service was really good and you're familiar to them. And I've never had a tip automatically added to my bill.



And there's even less of an expectation in China (or maybe that's changing - I haven't been to the Mainland in ten years). Perhaps this is yet another example of "Western culture" permeating its way into the PRC, because it was never like that in the past.

On my last trip there, back in 2001, I remember having a meal with some friends in Chengdu - the service there was exceptional, and we were also having language issues (we all speak Cantonese, but virtually no Mandarin) but the staff was super patient and helpful. Even though we were well aware that no tip was expected, we left one anyways, something like around 5% of the bill - a small but unexpected amount to show our appreciation. As we were leaving, we had one of the staff run after us with the money, because they thought we'd left it behind by mistake!

So maybe it's more of a Beijing/Shanghai thing, and less so out in the boonies?? And/or a sign of the changing times.



No, you were generally correct. It's only in Canada and the U.S. where tipping has truly become akin to an "entitlement".

That's why I like to use the UK and Australia as examples, because in most respects we're culturally similar, but not as far as tipping goes. Tipping does occur in the UK and Aus, but it's a much smaller amount. In the UK it's more like 5-10%, although I suppose in places like London it's probably inflated to 15-20% or more because of all the American tourists and businessmen (not to mention more than a few Russian Oil Oligarchs :lol:). In Australia, there's generally no expectation of a tip because their wait staff are paid fairly well already.

In my experience in Shanghai tips are not expected unless its a higher end place (or a western place...doesn't have to be high end), and only sometimes are they included as service charge. In HK, I just got back from there, and was charged service charge (10%) at a lot of places, and those places had pretty horrible service compared to what we get in Canada. You get charged this at the nicer restaurants, however there were a couple cheaper restaurants that I noticed had charged 10% (they put up signs in the restaurant). From the people I was staying with, they told me its customary to tip a little bit extra for nice places that charge service charge, but leave nothing for restaurants that have no service charge. I kept saying that made no sense at all but...whatever...I just slipped a few bucks behind whenever I could and nobody was looking.

I'm a big advocate of tipping properly but understand that the general public is really misinformed on how the whole system works and why its necessary for the system we have created. However I still think 20% "mandatory" or even "suggested" is totally out to lunch.

[nalababe]

Not really a big deal...tip if you want, don't if you don't want...

This past weekend, we went to a nice small restaurant. They found us a table, they comped (who were undoubtedly regulars) their dessert and tea to free up a table for four. They were wonderful with us and the kids. And we had a great time. Our 2 year old also made a bit of mess with his rice: we tipped 20 on 80.

[Aznsilvrboy]

Aussies don't tip, period. It isn't a part of their culture and many of them view it as offensive. The first time I moved there, I was unaware and tipped the waitress. She looked at me, smiled and asked where I was from. In the end, she didn't take the tip. That being said their wages (service industry, anyway) are a lot higher than here. Example, working in a KMart will get you close to $20 an hour. Bartender, unskilled, new to the job: $20/hr cash. Grocery store? Same thing. McD's: starting pay was something like $15. Blockbuster: $17 an hour.... you get the picture.

But in saying that, their standard of living is much higher than here...

Minimum wage in Australia is $15/h, regardless of what industry you are in.

[ItechJester]

Well, the way I see it is, either we tip ourselves, or the restaurants start hiking up the bills by 30% and they pay their staff better. I say 30% because undoubtedly the restauranteur will take advantage of the opportunity to increase prices and pocket the change for themselves.

OR

We continue to tip what we feel like. And hopefully most of you realize that the waiter/waitress is using this money to live off of, and that they are working in an industry with no benefits, and no retirement package.

Considering that the average employee at my place makes 60k plus 40% performance bonus, plus benefits, plus vacation, plus pension contributions etc.... The cost of each employee at my company is over 100k per year. Suddenly wait staff don't seem so rich to me.

[Aznsilvrboy]

Well, the way I see it is, either we tip ourselves, or the restaurants start hiking up the bills by 30% and they pay their staff better. I say 30% because undoubtedly the restauranteur will take advantage of the opportunity to increase prices and pocket the change for themselves.

OR

We continue to tip what we feel like. And hopefully most of you realize that the waiter/waitress is using this money to live off of, and that they are working in an industry with no benefits, and no retirement package.

Considering that the average employee at my place makes 60k plus 40% performance bonus, plus benefits, plus vacation, plus pension contributions etc.... The cost of each employee at my company is over 100k per year. Suddenly wait staff don't seem so rich to me.

Restaurant can hike their prices as much as they want to try to take advantage of the opportunity and give themselves a raise too, but it doesn't mean people will go. If they raises the price too much, people won't eat there. So the market will restrict how much he will be able to hike the price. I prefer it this way. People at your company have careers, waiters and waitresses don't, they only have jobs with high turnover rates. What's the job function of the employees at your company? Are they skilled or unskilled? You can't really compare them like that. Tipping is stupid because it give servers a sense of entitlement even though they did nothing to deserve it. Minimum wage != living wage, a lot of people work more than one job just to survive. They don't deserve any special treatment (this also means getting rid of the servers minimum wage and just have one general minimum wage for all workers).

[Mike_wang]

I thought this was redflagdeals?

Obligatory tipping scene from reservoir dogs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-qV9wVGb38

[iridium001]

I was chased after in SE Asia whenever I left a tip in the hotel.

It was funny and the people insisted I take my money back, they didn't want the tip.

Why can't it be like that here, damn pretentious greedy pricks in the restaurant industry.

[Oishi Girl]

I was chased after in SE Asia whenever I left a tip in the hotel.

It was funny and the people insisted I take my money back, they didn't want the tip.

Why can't it be like that here, damn pretentious greedy pricks in the restaurant industry.

Same here...just returned from Thailand...no tipping necessary, only diff...if you did tip, it was much appreciated or they
insisted we take it back! Kool.

[slowtyper]

Why can't it be like that here, damn pretentious greedy pricks in the restaurant industry.

You are a classy dude.

[MoonDoggy]

I prefer the way they do it in Japan, where the tip and taxes already calculated into the price on the menu. If you get bad service or food quality, you just dont go back. Service and food quality is part of the whole restaurant experience, not part of one or the other.

[hi-tech]

F*ck waiters, I don't care if they need they need my money for their disabled mother, until EVERYONE in the service industry gets paid tips, like people at McDonalds, Subway, the people at the cellphone stores, people at clothing stores etc, I will continue paying based on the quality of service, and at most 15%, 20% if it was unbelievable.

Remember, no one put a gun to these peoples heads. They make $8.90 as a base, that only $1.35 less per hour than someone at McDonalds or any other minimum wage job. Why should I pay them 20% more out of my pocket?

[gadogry]

tipping is expected in china/hong kong as well, it's automatically charged on your bill and you tip in addition to that. In china they hustle you for tips


if thats true then stand corrected, but thats even worse than north america lol

I lived in Hong Kong for 15 years, and what gilboman said is entirely untrue. Some dim sum restaurants have a manditory 10% service charge, but otherwise you're not expected to tip.

Can't say about mainland China, though.

[ronin1701]

I was chased after in SE Asia whenever I left a tip in the hotel.

It was funny and the people insisted I take my money back, they didn't want the tip.

Why can't it be like that here, damn pretentious greedy pricks in the restaurant industry.


You are a classy dude.

Well, there's some truth to that .... ever notice that the ones who receive the most, tend to appreciate it the least? (Although that could probably be said of pretty much any industry and profession/occupation).

[retroman80s]

When you use a coupon(WagJag,Groupon,etc) at a restaurant, do you base your tip at the discounted price or original price before discount?

[ronin1701]

When you use a coupon(WagJag,Groupon,etc) at a restaurant, do you base your tip at the discounted price or original price before discount?

Original, pre-discounted price.

If tipping is based on the quality and quantity of service, then the coupon or group voucher shouldn't make a difference, because the staff puts in the same amount of effort either way (hopefully).

[gilboman]

I lived in Hong Kong for 15 years, and what gilboman said is entirely untrue. Some dim sum restaurants have a manditory 10% service charge, but otherwise you're not expected to tip.

Can't say about mainland China, though.

I've lived in Hong Kong longer than you, but as I said, if you goto the cheap restaurants and fast food, there's no service charge. Any sit down full service restaurant be it part of the Maxim group, Tao Heung group etc.. all have 10% service charge, even pizza hut does

So either you eat at the street vendors only or too cheap to eat at any restaurant above cafe de coral or you are just full of crap.

Here is direct link from Hong Kong Tourism Board

http://www.discoverhongkong.com/eng/dining/tips.html

Service Charge
Most restaurants add 10% to the bill. However, some tea cafes do not impose service charge. Please check with the waiter about the charges before being seated.

So just as I said, the cheap places won't charge it, just like mcdonald's or hot dog stand, but any full service restaurant or any decent one will.

Which rock did you live under while in Hong Kong?

[gilboman]

Gilboman probably knows a few :razz::

I guess you've never been to china? or do you giggle everytime someone goes get a massage? :facepalm:

but seriously, as a rule of thumb.."full service" restaurants in HKG where a SC of 10% is added, is basically any place where you don't have to go up and pay your own bill I find.

[duckdown]

I don't care what they "recommend" or if they suggest 20%. They won't be getting it if the service was unacceptable or the food wasn't good, period.. But on the other hand if it was a great experience all around, I've done 20% or more before for sure and would do it again.

[ronin1701]

I've lived in Hong Kong longer than you, but as I said, if you goto the cheap restaurants and fast food, there's no service charge. Any sit down full service restaurant be it part of the Maxim group, Tao Heung group etc.. all have 10% service charge, even pizza hut does

So either you eat at the street vendors only or too cheap to eat at any restaurant above cafe de coral or you are just full of crap.

Here is direct link from Hong Kong Tourism Board

http://www.discoverhongkong.com/eng/dining/tips.html

Service Charge
Most restaurants add 10% to the bill. However, some tea cafes do not impose service charge. Please check with the waiter about the charges before being seated.

So just as I said, the cheap places won't charge it, just like mcdonald's or hot dog stand, but any full service restaurant or any decent one will.

Which rock did you live under while in Hong Kong?

Nice ... not only did you find a way to be insulting, but you've found a way to be pretentious while you're doing at it. Two for the price of one!

Awesome .... guy who's lived in HK for that long who needs to quote a tourist guide to support his case? :razz:


I guess you've never been to china? or do you giggle everytime someone goes get a massage? :facepalm:

but seriously, as a rule of thumb.."full service" restaurants in HKG where a SC of 10% is added, is basically any place where you don't have to go up and pay your own bill I find.

Are you implying that there are "Massage Parlours" in China? Perish the thought!!

Good lord, someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning :facepalm: Or has no sense of humour to begin with, more likely.

And yes, I've been to China - you read my anecdote from earlier about my experience in China? (or maybe you didn't) - never felt the need to get a "massage" there though, but you're an adult, what you do is your business.

Anyways, I'm going to call B.S. on you, or else you're just a sucker for going to restaurants that you allow to run all over you with the service charges tacked on. In any case, do you really think that the "service charge" is going to the staff, or more likely just lining the pockets of the owners? Because by any definition a "service charge" is not the same as a "tip / gratuity". I'll bet that you think the "delivery charge" for your pizza order goes straight into the hands of the driver too, right? :facepalm:

[Magoo]

There is a sense of entitlement in the industry that is absolutely disgusting; just like the union people.

To keep it simple - a waiter starts off with automatic 10% tip, this percentage will go up or down depending on service.

I've left with giving no tip before so I have no qualms with doing that again.
20% tip has to be OUTSTANDING service which I've only received a handful of times and I eat out often.

[gilboman]

Nice ... not only did you find a way to be insulting, but you've found a way to be pretentious while you're doing at it. Two for the price of one!

Awesome .... guy who's lived in HK for that long who needs to quote a tourist guide to support his case? :razz:



Are you implying that there are "Massage Parlours" in China? Perish the thought!!

Good lord, someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning :facepalm: Or has no sense of humour to begin with, more likely.

And yes, I've been to China - you read my anecdote from earlier about my experience in China? (or maybe you didn't) - never felt the need to get a "massage" there though, but you're an adult, what you do is your business.

Anyways, I'm going to call B.S. on you, or else you're just a sucker for going to restaurants that you allow to run all over you with the service charges tacked on. In any case, do you really think that the "service charge" is going to the staff, or more likely just lining the pockets of the owners? Because by any definition a "service charge" is not the same as a "tip / gratuity". I'll bet that you think the "delivery charge" for your pizza order goes straight into the hands of the driver too, right? :facepalm:

well you say you've been to hong kong or even lived there, but don't even know there's a 10% SC levied on full service restaurants???

What exactly are you calling BS on? do you call BS on the world is not flat as well? If you want to believe the world is flat and there's no standard 10% service charge in Hong Kong non fast food restaurants..then so be it. I mean, you believe the world is flat, humans roamed the world with dinosaurs and so forth, then so be it.

But if not quoting directly from a Hong Kong tourism board about 10% sc in restaurants..who would be a better source? the guy who lived there 15 years but never ate at a place above cafe de coral?

[ronin1701]

well you say you've been to hong kong or even lived there, but don't even know there's a 10% SC levied on full service restaurants???

What exactly are you calling BS on? do you call BS on the world is not flat as well? If you want to believe the world is flat and there's no standard 10% service charge in Hong Kong non fast food restaurants..then so be it. I mean, you believe the world is flat, humans roamed the world with dinosaurs and so forth, then so be it.

But if not quoting directly from a Hong Kong tourism board about 10% sc in restaurants..who would be a better source? the guy who lived there 15 years but never ate at a place above cafe de coral?

I never said I'd lived there, only that I've been there.

And whether or not there's a service charge, is actually secondary to whether or not that service charge is a gratuity to the server, or a surcharge to line the owners' pockets. Do you tip your pizza delivery guy, or is the "delivery charge" enough?

I've seen S/Cs levied, but it's also not standard, because I've been to enough decent restaurants that haven't charged it.

The fact that the world is flat is an immutable, physical fact. The "fact" that every restaurant in HK levies a S/C is not an immutable fact, because YMMV depending on where you go.

[Neovingian]

I have no problem tipping 20% everytime if I was guaranteed an annual salary increase of 20% for what I do, to make up for the loss after inflation. But in most industries, 20 % pay raises don't happen.

I've found myself tipping less, esp in the GTA. as previous posters have said, service in Toronto has been shoddy lately. Lately, I actually find I get better service in the US, the last 6 times I've eaten there, I have got the following: free wine, free refils or premium bevs, comped desert, comped meal, hot servers, prompt service, + 1 of my buddies got the servers #. When service is this good, we usually tip 20-25%, plus I figure the service staff prolly needs the tips more.

[iridium001]

You are a classy dude.

Thanks. I try. ;)

I'll tip higher base on good genuine service, not because I'm waiving a $20 around so I'll give it to you because you just sucked up to me during my meal, especially, especially when you ignored me and were rude when I first entered the restaurant.

For instance, when I go to Guu, I've always tipped 20%. Even though the machines they use gives me choice of entering in 15% or exact amount. Guu is a perfect example of friendly, attentive service in an environment that's loud and rowdy.

[Zelig]

I can understand the tipping culture in America, where servers make as little as $2-$3 per hour in most states.

There is nowhere in the US where servers can only make $3/hr.

At the very least, restaurants must abide by federal minimum wage legislation, which specifies that waiters cannot receive less than $7.25/hr - if tips don't bring the wage to at least this amount, the employer must make up the difference.

[Rainne]

F*ck waiters, I don't care if they need they need my money for their disabled mother, until EVERYONE in the service industry gets paid tips, like people at McDonalds, Subway, the people at the cellphone stores, people at clothing stores etc, I will continue paying based on the quality of service, and at most 15%, 20% if it was unbelievable.

Remember, no one put a gun to these peoples heads. They make $8.90 as a base, that only $1.35 less per hour than someone at McDonalds or any other minimum wage job. Why should I pay them 20% more out of my pocket?

EXACTLY.

You're only making $1.35 less than a min wage job compared to other people in the food service industry. I hate the people who complain, "We make less than min wage." That's complete BS. You're not being paid less than min wage. The 10-15% "mandatory" tip from 1-2 customer/per of a $10+ order already compensates for it, and if not, your employer will (at which point you'd be fired anyways if you can't even get tips totalling more than $1.35/hr).

Go serve in USA then come crying, those people literally make $2.35/hr, FAR below minimum wage, it's no wonder the service in USA is so much better, they legitimately rely on tips to make up the greater proportion of their income. I gladly tip those people 20-25%+.

I respect servers and understand the difficult of their job and whenever provided meaningful friendly service, a tip of 20%+ is easily warranted.

But when a waiter just seats you, writes down your order in a monotone voice, leaves in a rush, brings you your food, doesn't check up on you until the rest of the evening and gives you your bill, don't expect more than 10-15%+.

[Rainne]

Thanks. I try. ;)

I'll tip higher base on good genuine service, not because I'm waiving a $20 around so I'll give it to you because you just sucked up to me during my meal, especially, especially when you ignored me and were rude when I first entered the restaurant.

For instance, when I go to Guu, I've always tipped 20%. Even though the machines they use gives me choice of entering in 15% or exact amount. Guu is a perfect example of friendly, attentive service in an environment that's loud and rowdy.

Guu is an excellent place to eat, despite being rowdy and loud, the waiters somehow maintain their energy levels and provide very friendly, attentive and satisfying service.

Some people don't just go out to eat for the food, they go out to eat for the experience and the SERVICE.

[gilboman]

I never said I'd lived there, only that I've been there.

And whether or not there's a service charge, is actually secondary to whether or not that service charge is a gratuity to the server, or a surcharge to line the owners' pockets. Do you tip your pizza delivery guy, or is the "delivery charge" enough?

I've seen S/Cs levied, but it's also not standard, because I've been to enough decent restaurants that haven't charged it.

The fact that the world is flat is an immutable, physical fact. The "fact" that every restaurant in HK levies a S/C is not an immutable fact, because YMMV depending on where you go.

which "decent" place didn't charge it in hong kong?

[ronin1701]

which "decent" place didn't charge it in hong kong?

Beats me. I just know I have. Can't name it, because I don't read Chinese characters. I go with relatives - they drive, I pay (sometimes) :lol:

At least I'm giving you an honest answer.

[ahujie]

Servers in Ontario make $1.35 less than min wage. Servers make $8.90 and min wage is $10.25.

What if restaurants did start paying servers min wage, and tipping was abolished? I’m sure there would be a flood of people exiting server positions, as it would no longer be as lucrative as it is with tips. They would still complain if they made $10.25 an hour.

The cost to run the restaurant would rise by $1.35/hour that each server works. Critics say increase in wages will be passed on to the customers in the form of menu prices rising. So say a server works a three hour shift, that costs the resto an extra $4.05. I would gladly pay an extra $4.05 for a nice dinner than an inflated amount in the form of a tip (for example, tip could be $10, assuming 20% tip on a $50 meal). And of course, if we assume this server has clients other than me during that shift, than the extra $4.05 cost to have them work would be split amongst the tables. So if they serve 3 or 4 tables during that 3 hours shift, then it really only costs clients an extra $1 each. And we save on tip. Servers get paid min wage. Everyone wins right?

[alaska2014]

People are making it black and white, it has to be either franchise's garbage or over-priced food, there is no in-between.

I think Canadians are encouraging restaurants to go high tiers, in a bad way, making it a norm to act fancy while most of them don't even serve the kind of food that goes on par with the price they charge, it has nothing to do with service, no matter how great you serve, some of them just do not qualify for that mark up.

I don't agree with the "if you don't want to tip a ton, then stay home theory". The tipping incentive should be optional as a true high tier restaurant would have all the waiters serving the best they can in all circumstances.

The common food is over-priced and this article shows that they are trying to make it further more expensive.