Why do people visit China expect to get by with just English?

[divx]

I'm gonna state the obvious since it doesn't seem to be obvious to a lot of people, if you go visit China (mainland), do NOT expect anyone to speak English at an usable level over there, so if you can only speak English, you will have a heck of a time unless you have a guide. I don't know why is that people kept asking if it's doable, where did you get that impression? Chinese people don't bother with English, and yes, I'm aware that the schools teach English but so does our schools which teaches French, and how many of you can speak French at an usable level? I thought it is reasonable to expect Quebecker to speak English, but when I went there around 2000, and went in to A&W (or was it KFC) that nobody speaks English, I had to point to the menu item. Is it too much to ask for the Quebeckers to speak English than to ask the Chinese to speak English?

[FrogPrince]

Its amazing how fast people learn English when you wave a dollar bill in front of them.

[Jimboski]

Money Talks.

[doberman_baby]

I have friends who don't speak a single word of Chinese going to china and had no issues.
YMMV.

[time space]

Marco Polo might as well have stayed home.

[hordosr]

its engrish

[peano]

Why do people visit China at all?

[Jimboski]

Why do people visit China at all?

Buy stuff for cheap!

[Talamasca]

I'm gonna state the obvious since it doesn't seem to be obvious to a lot of people, if you go visit China (mainland), do NOT expect anyone to speak English at an usable level over there, so if you can only speak English, you will have a heck of a time unless you have a guide. I don't know why is that people kept asking if it's doable, where did you get that impression? Chinese people don't bother with English, and yes, I'm aware that the schools teach English but so does our schools which teaches French, and how many of you can speak French at an usable level? I thought it is reasonable to expect Quebecker to speak English, but when I went there around 2000, and went in to A&W (or was it KFC) that nobody speaks English, I had to point to the menu item. Is it too much to ask for the Quebeckers to speak English than to ask the Chinese to speak English?

You'll find it amazing what sign language and pointing can do. I've been in rural Egypt where English was not spoken and I didn't speak Arabic but I got by. A smile is universal.

[divx]

Money Talks.

I've witnessed foreigners get ripped off when they try to buy stuff, a bottle of water normally 2 yuan they were charged 10 yuan. That's what you get for letting your money talk instead of yourself.

Marco Polo might as well have stayed home.
Well he sure did have a heck of a time visiting.

its engrish
They don't even speak at that level.

[drdrma]

Why don't people use paragraphs?

[Mark77]

I'm going for a wedding.

And yes, I will be met by a billingual person. Although the point of my previous inquiry was to see how utterly useless I might be if I am seperated from them.

[Nakuruin]

I don't speak mandarin and a lot of the people I encountered didn't seem to know Cantonese so i mostly communicated in English or i just shook my head to show that i didn't understand. :razz: A lot of them in Beijing seemed to speak a conversational level of English though, and i overheard a few conversations when these foreigners were asking about features of the product and the sales associates were able to communicate quite well.

of course i understand the situation is likely to be different in smaller cities and rural areas since they have no need of english.

[navyseals]

Why do people visit China at all?

Food, culture, shopping, business.
Why are people so dumb?

[boyoflondon]

Chinese people don't bother with English,

Ahhh, I guess that answers why so many people that migrated here and have lived here for years don't speak English either.

[divx]

I'm going for a wedding.

And yes, I will be met by a billingual person. Although the point of my previous inquiry was to see how utterly useless I might be if I am seperated from them.
Now you know.

I don't speak mandarin and a lot of the people I encountered didn't seem to know Cantonese so i mostly communicated in English or i just shook my head to show that i didn't understand. :razz: A lot of them in Beijing seemed to speak a conversational level of English though, and i overheard a few conversations when these foreigners were asking about features of the product and the sales associates were able to communicate quite well.

of course i understand the situation is likely to be different in smaller cities and rural areas since they have no need of english.

Beijing have a population of around 12 million, so even a tiny fractional percentage can speak english, it would be a lot of people, except they are still a small small percentage, so the chances are, the people you meet won't be able to help you out.

[divx]

Ahhh, I guess that answers why so many people that migrated here and have lived here for years don't speak English either.

That's only possible in GTA Chinatown.

[FunSave22]

Beijing have a population of around 12 million, so even a tiny fractional percentage can speak english, it would be a lot of people, except they are still a small small percentage, so the chances are, the people you meet won't be able to help you out.
As has already been pointed out, many of us here travel to countries where we don't speak the language and we don't have many problems.

Basic tourist sign language can get you very far. A simple smile, a greeting in the local language and some obvious sign language gestures will solve most of your problems. There's nothing special about China in this respect.

[slowtyper]

Actually I found it very easy to get around mainland China with English only. OP keeps saying its such a small rare subset of the population that can understand English but I disagree a lot. I encountered, worked with, and made friends with countless Chinese who had some understanding of English.

Japan on the other hand....that is a completely different matter!

[dekay]

I've witnessed foreigners get ripped off when they try to buy stuff, a bottle of water normally 2 yuan they were charged 10 yuan. That's what you get for letting your money talk instead of yourself.

Only people who speak the local language don't get ripped off. Ya right. :facepalm:

If everybody thinks like you, the travel industry would've been dead ages ago.

[slowtyper]

That's only possible in GTA Chinatown.

Actually chinatown doesn't really have that many chinese anymore....but you can find other pockets of the city (quite large) where people can (and people do) live their entire lives without speaking English. The term is ethnic enclaves.

[navyseals]

Ahhh, I guess that answers why so many people that migrated here and have lived here for years don't speak English either.

Most of the Chinese families now have the mother and child in Canada while the father works in China and sends money back. Then if he visits he speaks no English although hes a PR.

[allenace]

As has already been pointed out, many of us here travel to countries where we don't speak the language and we don't have many problems.

Basic tourist sign language can get you very far. A simple smile, a greeting in the local language and some obvious sign language gestures will solve most of your problems. There's nothing special about China in this respect.

I agree 100% that you can make your way in most countries. We went earlier in the year to China and had few problems communicating. Had a bit of an issue with the taxi driver when we wanted to go to the birdsnest. We just drew a symbol of the Olympic rings and he knew right away.

[slowtyper]

Most of the Chinese families now have the mother and child in Canada while the father works in China and sends money back. Then if he visits he speaks no English although hes a PR.

LOL "most" Chinese families eh?

[odin88]

At least the Beijing subway is bilingual English/Mandarin announcing upcoming train stations. Guangzhou subway also bilingual English/Cantonese but this may have been for all the tourists entering the city for the Asian Olympics when I was there end of Oct/10.
HK was the best with trilingual subway announcements in English/Cantonese/Mandarin.
I only spoke basic Cantonese which was useless in northern China. For the taxi, circle where u want to go on a map or bring a Chinese tourist brochure.
** For restaurants in China, u can do your own ordering by bringing a bilingual Chinese takeout menu from Canada and hi-lighting what u wish to eat. **
Then again, u may not want to know what u are eating in Beijing. Snake hotpot, anybody? :-0

[Conquistador]

Why do people visit China at all?
:facepalm:


Food, culture, shopping, business.
Why are people so dumb?
Good question.

[toisanwu]

It's fine to ask question if one could get around in a foreign land with English only. I would be nervous travelling to a foreign land whose tongue I don't speak. China is a fast developing nation, particularly so in big metropolitans, such as Beijing and Shanghai. Learning English seems to be a craze going through the whole country. The efforts, although not every effective, into learning English are incredible, much more so then Anglophone students trying to learn French at school. Many university graduates are able to read and write decent level of English. Their oral English skills are no doubt NOT up to the same levels as they lack the environment to practice it. However, if you speak at a slower pace and using simple vocabularies, they should be able to understand you and perhaps speak back to you in English.

If OP really wants someone to help, he should check out an university campus. There are countless students who are willing to help you out. All they expect in return, in most cases, is that they will have a chance to sharpen their oral English skill hanging out with a native English speaker. I've known some English speakers who hired a student in Beijing for 100RMB a day to show them around the major touristic areas in Beijing.



At least the Beijing subway is bilingual English/Mandarin announcing upcoming train stations. Guangzhou subway also bilingual English/Cantonese but this may have been for all the tourists entering the city for the Asian Olympics when I was there end of Oct/10.
HK was the best with trilingual subway announcements in English/Cantonese/Mandarin.
I only spoke basic Cantonese which was useless in northern China. For the taxi, circle where u want to go on a map or bring a Chinese tourist brochure.
** For restaurants in China, u can do your own ordering by bringing a bilingual Chinese takeout menu from Canada and hi-lighting what u wish to eat. **
Then again, u may not want to know what u are eating in Beijing. Snake hotpot, anybody? :-0

You probably didn't pay much attention during your subway rides in Guangzhou :razz: They do announce in Mandarin as well. Guangzhou and Shenzhen's subway systems are modeled after HK's.



I've witnessed foreigners get ripped off when they try to buy stuff, a bottle of water normally 2 yuan they were charged 10 yuan. That's what you get for letting your money talk instead of yourself.

Unfortunately what you have witnessed happens everywhere where there are tourists, which is, truly a borderless phenomena!

[bfr]

This thread makes me wish I didn't understand English.

[simplysic]

Might not be the most efficient way but this surely could help...thanks Google!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq1dow1vTHY&feature=player_embedded

[nalababe]

While we don't expect it, we have never had trouble. But we don't expect anything.

Now it Is one reason that we pick a chain hotel (usually le meridian, westin, Sheraton)...and usually have emailed them in advance with questions. While not a perfect test it has always steered us correctly.

Really, any big city and you are fine. We had no trouble in Tokyo, Beijing, nor Indonesia, nor Malaysia, nor anywhere in Europe.

Maps, books, pctures, and one can do fine. Especially if tourism is a focus. And yes, if doing something more challenging, we will hire a driver. In all cases, if they had no English, the would just pass us their phone and we talked to dispatch or someone in the office who did speak English.

We will always read the lonely planet and trip advisor to learn about restaurants that can handle some English. But really, we have been to restaurants in Toronto where we had more trouble.

We are going for three weeks to Chengdu, Yangshuo, shanghai and have no worries.

[nalababe]

I've witnessed foreigners get ripped off when they try to buy stuff, a bottle of water normally 2 yuan they were charged 10 yuan. That's what you get for letting your money talk instead of yourself.

Well he sure did have a heck of a time visiting.

They don't even speak at that level.

We just buy from the supermarket....or hotel. When paying 10k on a trip....an extra dollar is not a big deal...you just have to be smart. You can make stupid decisions regardless of language.

Part of the fun is that you don't speak the language.

[time space]

Why do people visit China at all?

Errr... because it's one of the original homes of human civilization and contains wonders beyond imagination?

[FrogPrince]

Most of the Chinese families now have the mother and child in Canada while the father works in China and sends money back. Then if he visits he speaks no English although hes a PR.


LOL "most" Chinese families eh?

Yeah, adult chinese males are so rare around here. :facepalm:

[nerak]

Why do people hate American tourists? Same thing. Have Americans stopped going outside of anglophone countries? Not that I'm aware of.

Quebecois probably understood your English. They just refused to speak to you in English. This is especially true outside of Montreal, and especially true if you showed no signs of trying to speak French.

[NorthYorker]

I found this to be a trend in any non-Anglophone country with population more than, say, 40 mlns - once you are outside of major cities, it might be hard to find anyone understanding (let alone speaking) basic English. Spain, Germany, Italy, France, Poland, Russia, Ukraine - pattern is the same. The reason is very natural - everything worth reading/viewing is translated to their native tongues, so there's absolutely no reason for a smaller-town burgher to know English. Ppl in big metro areas know English because a lot of them are either involved in international business or somehow hope to get into it, and smaller-country folks are likely to know English from their Uni years (it's a lot harder to find a decent scientific book in Norwegian or Albanian than in English). There's nothing specifically China-related about this problem.

[Aznsilvrboy]

I am going to China (Beijing, Shanghai) in less than 3 weeks. I'll come back and report how difficult it is to get by with just English.

[nalababe]

I am going to China (Beijing, Shanghai) in less than 3 weeks. I'll come back and report how difficult it is to get by with just English.

Really, you should have no issue. We went to the forbidden city, temple of heaven, summer palace, night market, Silk Market, Ming Tombs and countless other places. For half the time we had our friends who spoke Mandarin...the other half we could speak nothing. Not a big deal.

[humayoon]

Never had many problems anywhere until I went to Turkey. Other than the major touristy areas, even in the cities you will have a hard time communicating with English only.

[trellaine201]

I'm gonna state the obvious since it doesn't seem to be obvious to a lot of people, if you go visit China (mainland), do NOT expect anyone to speak English at an usable level over there, so if you can only speak English, you will have a heck of a time unless you have a guide. I don't know why is that people kept asking if it's doable, where did you get that impression? Chinese people don't bother with English, and yes, I'm aware that the schools teach English but so does our schools which teaches French, and how many of you can speak French at an usable level? I thought it is reasonable to expect Quebecker to speak English, but when I went there around 2000, and went in to A&W (or was it KFC) that nobody speaks English, I had to point to the menu item. Is it too much to ask for the Quebeckers to speak English than to ask the Chinese to speak English?

If your in Shanghai/Beijing you will be fine with no chinese. :facepalm:, there both international cities!

[divx]

Only people who speak the local language don't get ripped off. Ya right. :facepalm:

If everybody thinks like you, the travel industry would've been dead ages ago.

there are official attraction hotspots where they charge few times more for a foreign ticket than a local ticket, so if you don't speak the language it would be rather obvious which ticket they will make you pay for. also if you don't speak the language you have no chance of bartering, and super markets are still rare and often overpriced compared to local street vendors. of course the tourist won't feel being ripped off because tourists are rich compared to the local population so they probably feel the price they are paying is rather typical.

[divx]

Most of the Chinese families now have the mother and child in Canada while the father works in China and sends money back. Then if he visits he speaks no English although hes a PR.

you got that backwards, it's more like the other way around.

[divx]

I agree 100% that you can make your way in most countries. We went earlier in the year to China and had few problems communicating. Had a bit of an issue with the taxi driver when we wanted to go to the birdsnest. We just drew a symbol of the Olympic rings and he knew right away.

are you going to draw every place you want to visit?

[slowtyper]

there are official attraction hotspots where they charge few times more for a foreign ticket than a local ticket, so if you don't speak the language it would be rather obvious which ticket they will make you pay for. also if you don't speak the language you have no chance of bartering, and super markets are still rare and often overpriced compared to local street vendors. of course the tourist won't feel being ripped off because tourists are rich compared to the local population so they probably feel the price they are paying is rather typical.

I can't speak for all the cities in China but in Shanghai, where I lived, this is not really the case.

Supermarkets are generally a bit more expensive but there are all different kinds of supermarkets and prices vary. There are supermarkets frequented by mostly locals which are not much more expensive (for produce and veg) than the wet markets and for other goods are cheaper. They are not rare at all.

Also, you can very easily still barter when purchasing goods on the street in English. In Shanghai I visited numerous street markets (fake designer goods market, cell phone market, textiles market (to get suits and clothes custom made). Most of the workers there could speak or understand a bit of English (some were actually very good). I mean it is their livelyhood.

Yes taxis are often a problem. What I would suggest is just get a Chinese sim card with data plan (China mobile operators speak perfect English...trust me I had to call China mobile dozens of times to change services and what not) and its cheap. If you have a smartphone and data, telling a taxi driver where you want to go is no problem at all.

[divx]

At least the Beijing subway is bilingual English/Mandarin announcing upcoming train stations. Guangzhou subway also bilingual English/Cantonese but this may have been for all the tourists entering the city for the Asian Olympics when I was there end of Oct/10.
HK was the best with trilingual subway announcements in English/Cantonese/Mandarin.
I only spoke basic Cantonese which was useless in northern China. For the taxi, circle where u want to go on a map or bring a Chinese tourist brochure.
** For restaurants in China, u can do your own ordering by bringing a bilingual Chinese takeout menu from Canada and hi-lighting what u wish to eat. **
Then again, u may not want to know what u are eating in Beijing. Snake hotpot, anybody? :-0

Not a chance in hell. I would hardly call the Chinese food here real Chinese food, places in China serve authentic Chinese food, and I have never witness the pseudo crap over there. LOL chicken balls? I lived in China for over a decade and have never seen any of the "Chinese food" served here, if it wasn't labeled as such I won't have a clue what ethnic is belongs to.

[slowtyper]

divx, where in china have you actually lived? And how long ago was it? No offence but I find most of your post about this topic completely wrong. Perhaps your last time living in China was quite a while ago? Was it within the last 5 years? I'm guessing maybe it was and things have just changed (as they do in China very quickly)

[slowtyper]

Not a chance in hell. I would hardly call the Chinese food here real Chinese food, places in China serve authentic Chinese food, and I have never witness the pseudo crap over there. LOL chicken balls? I lived in China for over a decade and have never seen any of the "Chinese food" served here, if it wasn't labeled as such I won't have a clue what ethnic is belongs to.

Does SK mean Saskatchewan? Because we have pretty damn good Chinese food in GTA (well mostly Cantonese but its growing).

However ordering in Chinese restaurants is not too too difficult...more often than not I found a lot of restaurants have picture menus (for at least the popular dishes).

There are some where you will be completely out of luck though with a complete chinese menu! However, if you are really interested in food or know a few dishes that you like, you can compile a list of them online (its very easy to find) that you would like and save a copy to your phone to show the waiter. If you go to chowhound you could easily get someone to make up a list for you (or find one already done).

Or, as many foreigners do, just point to something at another table and ask for that. Might seem crude, and I"ve never done it because I never had to, but I've seen many foreigners do that. Its not really considered rude as it would be here.

[divx]

It's fine to ask question if one could get around in a foreign land with English only. I would be nervous travelling to a foreign land whose tongue I don't speak. China is a fast developing nation, particularly so in big metropolitans, such as Beijing and Shanghai. Learning English seems to be a craze going through the whole country. The efforts, although not every effective, into learning English are incredible, much more so then Anglophone students trying to learn French at school. Many university graduates are able to read and write decent level of English. Their oral English skills are no doubt NOT up to the same levels as they lack the environment to practice it. However, if you speak at a slower pace and using simple vocabularies, they should be able to understand you and perhaps speak back to you in English.

If OP really wants someone to help, he should check out an university campus. There are countless students who are willing to help you out. All they expect in return, in most cases, is that they will have a chance to sharpen their oral English skill hanging out with a native English speaker. I've known some English speakers who hired a student in Beijing for 100RMB a day to show them around the major touristic areas in Beijing.




You probably didn't pay much attention during your subway rides in Guangzhou :razz: They do announce in Mandarin as well. Guangzhou and Shenzhen's subway systems are modeled after HK's.




Unfortunately what you have witnessed happens everywhere where there are tourists, which is, truly a borderless phenomena!

They put a lot effort into learning English, but their school system, much like ours, in that they teach to exams, so they tend to memorize a lot of info but to be able to communication orally is another story. If you give them a test they can probably pass with flying colors but if you ask them a question, they may not understand.

[divx]

Might not be the most efficient way but this surely could help...thanks Google!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq1dow1vTHY&feature=player_embedded

Works well and I use it sometimes, but zero help in this context.

[allenace]

you got that backwards, it's more like the other way around.

They've got this right. There's a lot of weath in China and many Chinese families will root themselves in Canada. I've witnessed this on many occasions.


are you going to draw every place you want to visit?

The point is that if you use a bit of creativity, you typically can make your way around. You may as well stay in your backyard if you're afraid of some language barriers. To single out china is pretty short sighted. The most issues that we've had travelling with some language barrier was Italy but we still manged to get around without issue.


Not a chance in hell. I would hardly call the Chinese food here real Chinese food, places in China serve authentic Chinese food, and I have never witness the pseudo crap over there. LOL chicken balls? I lived in China for over a decade and have never seen any of the "Chinese food" served here, if it wasn't labeled as such I won't have a clue what ethnic is belongs to.

Don't know about SK but in Vancouver many of the chefs at the Chinese restaurants out here are from either HK or China. The noodle houses out here are pretty well the same as the noodle houses in China or HK. If you think the chinese food in Canada is limited to chicken balls, then you might want to come out of that cave you're living in.

[beerbaron105]

I went to China for 3 weeks, and unless you were in downtown major cores, very few people spoke fluent english, sign language did get me by when I wasn't with my guide, but without him, I wouldn't have experienced as much in those three weeks, most restaurants were difficult to order from unless it was a picture menu... I went with Gap Adventures and it was amazing!

[beerbaron105]

Not a chance in hell. I would hardly call the Chinese food here real Chinese food, places in China serve authentic Chinese food, and I have never witness the pseudo crap over there. LOL chicken balls? I lived in China for over a decade and have never seen any of the "Chinese food" served here, if it wasn't labeled as such I won't have a clue what ethnic is belongs to.


You can still order sweet and sour pork, or stirfry, or chicken and rice, probably the most common and safest foods to eat there, but Chinese food is amazing compared to what we get here, especially "hot pot"

[divx]

Why do people hate American tourists? Same thing. Have Americans stopped going outside of anglophone countries? Not that I'm aware of.

Quebecois probably understood your English. They just refused to speak to you in English. This is especially true outside of Montreal, and especially true if you showed no signs of trying to speak French.

no hating on tourists, just you should not expect an easy time

whatever happened to customer is always right? or am i wrong to speak english at a fast food joint in canada?

[divx]

I am going to China (Beijing, Shanghai) in less than 3 weeks. I'll come back and report how difficult it is to get by with just English.

no wonder so many people got the wrong impression, it's all about beijing, shanghai, hongkong, etc, they don't represent china

[divx]

Really, you should have no issue. We went to the forbidden city, temple of heaven, summer palace, night market, Silk Market, Ming Tombs and countless other places. For half the time we had our friends who spoke Mandarin...the other half we could speak nothing. Not a big deal.

you felt comfortable cause you know you can count on your friends who can speak chinese, they are acting as your guide/translator

[divx]

If your in Shanghai/Beijing you will be fine with no chinese. :facepalm:, there both international cities!

because only those 2 places are worth visiting

[divx]

I can't speak for all the cities in China but in Shanghai, where I lived, this is not really the case.

Supermarkets are generally a bit more expensive but there are all different kinds of supermarkets and prices vary. There are supermarkets frequented by mostly locals which are not much more expensive (for produce and veg) than the wet markets and for other goods are cheaper. They are not rare at all.

Also, you can very easily still barter when purchasing goods on the street in English. In Shanghai I visited numerous street markets (fake designer goods market, cell phone market, textiles market (to get suits and clothes custom made). Most of the workers there could speak or understand a bit of English (some were actually very good). I mean it is their livelyhood.

Yes taxis are often a problem. What I would suggest is just get a Chinese sim card with data plan (China mobile operators speak perfect English...trust me I had to call China mobile dozens of times to change services and what not) and its cheap. If you have a smartphone and data, telling a taxi driver where you want to go is no problem at all.

another shanghai example, do you guys ever check out other places?

[divx]

divx, where in china have you actually lived? And how long ago was it? No offence but I find most of your post about this topic completely wrong. Perhaps your last time living in China was quite a while ago? Was it within the last 5 years? I'm guessing maybe it was and things have just changed (as they do in China very quickly)

xi'an, was there for a month last year. i'm getting the impression nobody wants to go a bit more in land.

[FunSave22]

you felt comfortable cause you know you can count on your friends who can speak chinese, they are acting as your guide/translator
You really need to travel to a country where you don't speak the language. You'll discover it's not that difficult and unless you normally have frequent panic attacks, you'll quickly become quite comfortable.

Everyday on this planet there are huge numbers of people visiting a country (without this assistance of a guide or translator), where they don't speak the language and aren't intimately familiar with the culture. International tourism is a huge business. And nearly of these tourists do fine.


There's nothing special about China in this regard. And there is no reason to be overly concerned.

[divx]

They've got this right. There's a lot of weath in China and many Chinese families will root themselves in Canada. I've witnessed this on many occasions.



The point is that if you use a bit of creativity, you typically can make your way around. You may as well stay in your backyard if you're afraid of some language barriers. To single out china is pretty short sighted. The most issues that we've had travelling with some language barrier was Italy but we still manged to get around without issue.



Don't know about SK but in Vancouver many of the chefs at the Chinese restaurants out here are from either HK or China. The noodle houses out here are pretty well the same as the noodle houses in China or HK. If you think the chinese food in Canada is limited to chicken balls, then you might want to come out of that cave you're living in.

i'd say it's more common the other way around. should be well understood that people come here from a 3rd world country to make money and send back home.

SK is like a cave.

[divx]

I went to China for 3 weeks, and unless you were in downtown major cores, very few people spoke fluent english, sign language did get me by when I wasn't with my guide, but without him, I wouldn't have experienced as much in those three weeks, most restaurants were difficult to order from unless it was a picture menu... I went with Gap Adventures and it was amazing!

exactly, you need a guide to get the proper experience

[allenace]

i'd say it's more common the other way around. should be well understood that people come here from a 3rd world country to make money and send back home.

I have a tough time classifying China as a 3rd world country. They have the most billionaires in the world next to the US. Infrastructure around China is being built up constantly and the standard of living has increased over the last decade. It really is unfortunate though that the wealth is so unevenly distributed and the poor don't have alot to work with. :(



SK is like a cave.
:lol:

[allenace]

I went to China for 3 weeks, and unless you were in downtown major cores, very few people spoke fluent english, sign language did get me by when I wasn't with my guide, but without him, I wouldn't have experienced as much in those three weeks, most restaurants were difficult to order from unless it was a picture menu... I went with Gap Adventures and it was amazing!

This applies to pretty well anyplace you go. Even in North America where you can speak the language, you will always get more when you have a guide. I live in Vancouver and in all honesty, apart from some good restaurants and watering holes, I really can't tell you a whole lot about the history.

[Talamasca]

You really need to travel to a country where you don't speak the language. You'll discover it's not that difficult and unless you normally have frequent panic attacks, you'll quickly become quite comfortable.

Everyday on this planet there are huge numbers of people visiting a country (without this assistance of a guide or translator), where they don't speak the language and aren't intimately familiar with the culture. International tourism is a huge business. And nearly of these tourists do fine.


There's nothing special about China in this regard. And there is no reason to be overly concerned.

Best post in this thread and completely agree with all your points. I've been to all a bunch of countries where I didn't speak the native language and did just fine. I'm planning a vacation right now to five countries with four different languages spoken amongst them and I don't speak any of them. I'll try to learn some key phrases for each language but will obviously be nowhere near fluent in them. Will I have the same experience that a local would? Of course not but I wouldn't expect to. I have to think that the millions of non-Chinese speaking tourists who visit China each year do just fine, as do the non-Spanish speaking tourists who visit Spain, etc.

And as for the majority of tourists visiting the big cities, that is not unique to China. The majority of tourists visit the key cities in the countries they visit. Go to England and you explore London, you go to Italy and you visit Rome, and so on. The big cities almost always have more things to see and do than smaller places.

If you have to be fluent in a country's language to visit there as OP argues, there wouldn't be very many places we could visit.

[divx]

You really need to travel to a country where you don't speak the language. You'll discover it's not that difficult and unless you normally have frequent panic attacks, you'll quickly become quite comfortable.

Everyday on this planet there are huge numbers of people visiting a country (without this assistance of a guide or translator), where they don't speak the language and aren't intimately familiar with the culture. International tourism is a huge business. And nearly of these tourists do fine.


There's nothing special about China in this regard. And there is no reason to be overly concerned.

I'm an engineer, I can't handle uncertainties. I don't visit Countries where I can't speak the languages, because of what might happen will happen.

[divx]

I have a tough time classifying China as a 3rd world country. They have the most billionaires in the world next to the US. Infrastructure around China is being built up constantly and the standard of living has increased over the last decade. It really is unfortunate though that the wealth is so unevenly distributed and the poor don't have alot to work with. :(



:lol:

How about it is a 3rd world country to all but the elite few? Their central government spends a lot of time and efforts building up image for the outside world instead of helping their own people. If you were to look into it, it's a complete **** hole. Remember back in 2008 Olympics the government forced poor people to relocate outside of public view, and built a wall to cover up the poor areas. That country is a total fake and an embarrassment for humanity.

[divx]

This applies to pretty well anyplace you go. Even in North America where you can speak the language, you will always get more when you have a guide. I live in Vancouver and in all honesty, apart from some good restaurants and watering holes, I really can't tell you a whole lot about the history.

I expect to be served in English in Canada, and I will take offense otherwise, which is why I don't visit Quebec and they are better off separating if they can't figure out English.

[divx]

Best post in this thread and completely agree with all your points. I've been to all a bunch of countries where I didn't speak the native language and did just fine. I'm planning a vacation right now to five countries with four different languages spoken amongst them and I don't speak any of them. I'll try to learn some key phrases for each language but will obviously be nowhere near fluent in them. Will I have the same experience that a local would? Of course not but I wouldn't expect to. I have to think that the millions of non-Chinese speaking tourists who visit China each year do just fine, as do the non-Spanish speaking tourists who visit Spain, etc.

And as for the majority of tourists visiting the big cities, that is not unique to China. The majority of tourists visit the key cities in the countries they visit. Go to England and you explore London, you go to Italy and you visit Rome, and so on. The big cities almost always have more things to see and do than smaller places.

If you have to be fluent in a country's language to visit there as OP argues, there wouldn't be very many places we could visit.

You can still visit places, but you are better off getting a guide/translator.

[FunSave22]

I'm an engineer, I can't handle uncertainties. I don't visit Countries where I can't speak the languages, because of what might happen will happen.


I expect to be served in English in Canada, and I will take offense otherwise, which is why I don't visit Quebec and they are better off separating if they can't figure out English.

Now I just think you're trolling.

[nalababe]

you felt comfortable cause you know you can count on your friends who can speak chinese, they are acting as your guide/translator

No, they were not there for the last week. Nor did we know anyone in Malaysia or Bali.

On our next trip we don't have any friends travelling with us....just the us and the kids.

[nalababe]

are you going to draw every place you want to visit?

How many places to you need to visit?

We went to the Birdsnest, a restaurant for Bejing Duck (one of the nicer ones) and the summer palace. We pointed to three pictures. Not that challenging.

Take a map, take an ipad. Not hard.

[IceBlueShoes]

Now I just think you're trolling.
Or a close minded individual.
You know the kind that gets mad if something happens because THEY don't speak the local language.

How many places to you need to visit?

We went to the Birdsnest, a restaurant for Bejing Duck (one of the nicer ones) and the summer palace. We pointed to three pictures. Not that challenging.

Take a map, take an ipad. Not hard.

+1. Research!

[trajancavalous]

My two yuan;

Spent 8 days in Beijing and Tianjin. Had a professional guide one day. Spent most of two days with a friend who teaches English there. Rest of the time we were on our own, we speak no Chinese and had no problem. We stayed at the Days Inn Forbidden City, staff spoke english and in the neighborhood around there at I think every place we visited somebody spoke english. Around the city like others noted subway signage is also in english. At the tourist attractions like the war museum or the summer palace it wasn't hard to find people who spoke english. Harder to find in other locations but it was never an insurmountable obstacle. Imho in regards to Beijing at least a visitor can get by just fine not knowing any Chinese.

[trajancavalous]

How about it is a 3rd world country to all but the elite few? Their central government spends a lot of time and efforts building up image for the outside world instead of helping their own people. If you were to look into it, it's a complete **** hole. Remember back in 2008 Olympics the government forced poor people to relocate outside of public view, and built a wall to cover up the poor areas. That country is a total fake and an embarrassment for humanity.

lol Reading more of this guy's posts and I think troll is the right description. 'complete ****hole?' You could find some bad areas but after walking through some of the worst neighborhoods in Beijing and Tianjin I've seen worse in Vancouver's Downtown East Side. There is much to criticize Chine for but imho your post is ridiculous.

[thepersianguy]

so would it be better to learn mandarin or cantonese? i'm going to teach english in either zhuhai or dongguan in a few weeks.

[Aznsilvrboy]

lol Reading more of this guy's posts and I think troll is the right description. 'complete ****hole?' You could find some bad areas but after walking through some of the worst neighborhoods in Beijing and Tianjin I've seen worse in Vancouver's Downtown East Side. There is much to criticize Chine for but imho your post is ridiculous.

divx is right. China spends a lot of money on cosmetic projects to make China look good to foreigners. This means any city that you can name. The fact that most people only know Beijing, Shanghai, Tianjin, Shenzhen, Guangzhou and only ever go to those places to visit means you're not seeing the whole picture.

[Aznsilvrboy]

so would it be better to learn mandarin or cantonese? i'm going to teach english in either zhuhai or dongguan in a few weeks.

If you're going to mainland China, learn Mandarin.

[toisanwu]

If you're going to mainland China, learn Mandarin.

Re-read what he is going to be. Those two cities are in Guangdong where Cantonese is dominant. However, you can get get around there in either Mandarin or Cantonese there.

[toisanwu]

divx is right. China spends a lot of money on cosmetic projects to make China look good to foreigners. This means any city that you can name. The fact that most people only know Beijing, Shanghai, Tianjin, Shenzhen, Guangzhou and only ever go to those places to visit means you're not seeing the whole picture.

You sure it's a fact?:facepalm:

How many non-Western and non-English speaking people living outside of Canada would really know any other Canadian places other than Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa?

When people travel to another country, they will always fly into big metropolitans, such as London or Paris or Beijing. Tourists tend to use those big cities as stepping stones to visit surrounding places. Take a look at the map of China, see if Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou are close together or not? Aren't they the perfect entry points for foreigners to visit China?

[toisanwu]

I'm an engineer, I can't handle uncertainties. I don't visit Countries where I can't speak the languages, because of what might happen will happen.

A competent engineer thrives on challenges, that is, uncertainties. Engineers are problem solvers, not following prescribed routes.


How about it is a 3rd world country to all but the elite few? Their central government spends a lot of time and efforts building up image for the outside world instead of helping their own people. If you were to look into it, it's a complete **** hole. Remember back in 2008 Olympics the government forced poor people to relocate outside of public view, and built a wall to cover up the poor areas. That country is a total fake and an embarrassment for humanity.

You obviously cannot speak Chinese and therefore never has visited China, and you knew it's a complete **** hole? Oh, you learnt that from the media then, eh?


I expect to be served in English in Canada, and I will take offense otherwise, which is why I don't visit Quebec and they are better off separating if they can't figure out English.

It's people like you that Quebecois want to have their own country.

[Aznsilvrboy]

You sure it's a fact?:facepalm:

How many non-Western and non-English speaking people living outside of Canada would really know any other Canadian places other than Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa?

When people travel to another country, they will always fly into big metropolitans, such as London or Paris or Beijing. Tourists tend to use those big cities as stepping stones to visit surrounding places. Take a look at the map of China, see if Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou are close together or not? Aren't they the perfect entry points for foreigners to visit China?

There's nothing wrong with them visiting the big cities. It's just that's all they're seeing, which doesn't represent the general picture of how China is. Every Chinese knows for a fact that they're a 3rd world country, I don't even know why you are trying to argue otherwise.

[Aznsilvrboy]

A competent engineer thrives on challenges, that is, uncertainties. Engineers are problem solvers, not following prescribed routes.



You obviously cannot speak Chinese and therefore never has visited China, and you knew it's a complete **** hole? Oh, you learnt that from the media then, eh?



It's people like you that Quebecois want to have their own country.

I am pretty sure OP is from China.

[allenace]

divx is right. China spends a lot of money on cosmetic projects to make China look good to foreigners. This means any city that you can name. The fact that most people only know Beijing, Shanghai, Tianjin, Shenzhen, Guangzhou and only ever go to those places to visit means you're not seeing the whole picture.

We went to my fathers home village 2 hours outside of Guangzhou with a population of about 200 people. My father was a peasant in a farming community and I was expecting a lot of poverty. I was quite shocked to see how good the housing was as his house was still standing after 60 years and still looked in excellent shape. Sure there was no forced air heating or in house plumbing but water and electricity were readily available as was firewood. Roads to the village were excellent and there were communal bathrooms with toilets and showers which were pretty modern and clean. I do realize the south is somewhat more wealthy than Northern China but for government housing, it didn't look as bad as I thought it would have been.

[packardbell]

you should see how the language barrier is overcome with money.:)

[avz]

I spent two months backpacking around China and went to everything from the big cities to the smallest towns. English is pretty much useless anywhere except Hong Kong. If you put even minimal effort into learning the basic words, you will get by fine. I think sometimes travelers forget that language is a huge part of culture. If you want to experience culture, then you need to try to understand the language.

[toisanwu]

There's nothing wrong with them visiting the big cities. It's just that's all they're seeing, which doesn't represent the general picture of how China is. Every Chinese knows for a fact that they're a 3rd world country, I don't even know why you are trying to argue otherwise.

As a tourist, one cannot never really understand the country as a whole. It's up to them to visit whatever they want.

I was not trying to argue that China was not a 3rd world country, I actually believe it's.

[toisanwu]

I am pretty sure OP is from China.

You may be right. It was pretty late late for me when I replied to his posts.

[time space]

As a tourist, one cannot never really understand the country as a whole.

As an RFDer, one cannot never really understand the post as a whole.

[toisanwu]

We went to my fathers home village 2 hours outside of Guangzhou with a population of about 200 people. My father was a peasant in a farming community and I was expecting a lot of poverty. I was quite shocked to see how good the housing was as his house was still standing after 60 years and still looked in excellent shape. Sure there was no forced air heating or in house plumbing but water and electricity were readily available as was firewood. Roads to the village were excellent and there were communal bathrooms with toilets and showers which were pretty modern and clean. I do realize the south is somewhat more wealthy than Northern China but for government housing, it didn't look as bad as I thought it would have been.

I assumed that was your first visit to your father's hometown? A 60 years old house should look pretty rundown in southern China due to its climate. Perhaps it has been restored? Anyway, there were some old houses were indeed very well constructed.

If you only rely on the Western media to learn about China, you would always be misinformed. People in China, particularly in southern coastal China, people have been improving their lives tremendously over the past couple of decades. They have achieved all that on their own, without much government handouts like big cities like Beijing and Shanghai.

Many of my cousins back at the village have small vehicles (they have mostly abandoned their old scooters). Every few years I go back there, I would get a shock to see how much things have improved. Of course, there have been scores of other social problems as well, such as the great divide between the have and have-nots.

[toisanwu]

As an RFDer, one cannot never really understand the post as a whole.

:cheesygri That was a good one. Hope my English teacher was not reading my posts!

[allenace]

I assumed that was your first visit to your father's hometown? A 60 years old house should look pretty rundown in southern China due to its climate. Perhaps it has been restored? Anyway, there were some old houses were indeed very well constructed.

If you only rely on the Western media to learn about China, you would always be misinformed. People in China, particularly in southern coastal China, people have been improving their lives tremendously over the past couple of decades. They have achieved all that on their own, without much government handouts like big cities like Beijing and Shanghai.

Many of my cousins back at the village have small vehicles (they have mostly abandoned their old scooters). Every few years I go back there, I would get a shock to see how much things have improved. Of course, there have been scores of other social problems as well, such as the great divide between the have and have-nots.

Actually the house hadn't been restored. It still has the shrine to my grandmother when she was killed during the war. It really was in unbelievably good shape. These people in the village are still poor but their living accomodations were surprisingly good.

[nalababe]

divx is right. China spends a lot of money on cosmetic projects to make China look good to foreigners. This means any city that you can name. The fact that most people only know Beijing, Shanghai, Tianjin, Shenzhen, Guangzhou and only ever go to those places to visit means you're not seeing the whole picture.

But how is that any different than any other country?

Travel to Toronto and you have no idea about cottage country, northern Ontario, the farm belts.....completely different.

[Hairball]

But how is that any different than any other country?

Travel to Toronto and you have no idea about cottage country, northern Ontario, the farm belts.....completely different.

Exactly, when you are visiting a geographically large country, there is only so much you can see. Even within Canada most of us have hardly seen that much of the country. Even though it was just another city, for example my first visit to Vancouver was very interesting.

[slowtyper]

No, they were not there for the last week. Nor did we know anyone in Malaysia or Bali.


Malaysia isn't a good example though..it is an English speaking country!

[trellaine201]

This is a bit off topic but I booked my flight to shanghai about one month ago. Then heading to Tokyo. I am really having second thoughts on giving my business to china :( more due to politics than the actual country. I'm kinda stuck at this point. I won't get into my views or chinas policies cause this isn't allowed I think in forums.

I am suppose to go April 2. :(

[blizzah]

This is a bit off topic but I booked my flight to shanghai about one month ago. Then heading to Tokyo. I am really having second thoughts on giving my business to china :( more due to politics than the actual country. I'm kinda stuck at this point. I won't get into my views or chinas policies cause this isn't allowed I think in forums.

I am suppose to go April 2. :(

Better get rid of all those things in your house that are Made in China then.

[time space]

This is a bit off topic but I booked my flight to shanghai about one month ago. Then heading to Tokyo. I am really having second thoughts on giving my business to china :( more due to politics than the actual country. I'm kinda stuck at this point. I won't get into my views or chinas policies cause this isn't allowed I think in forums.

I am suppose to go April 2. :(

Don't be sad - China is an amazing country - and be sure to ride the Maglev (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Maglev_Train)!


(As to your second thoughts, I suggest you read this (http://web.mit.edu/krugman/www/smokey.html) and reflect upon it.)

[trellaine201]

Don't be sad - China is an amazing country - and be sure to ride the Maglev (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Maglev_Train)!


(As to your second thoughts, I suggest you read this (http://web.mit.edu/krugman/www/smokey.html) and reflect upon it.)

Maglev = fast train? I was gonna do that from shanghai to huangzhou?

[slowtyper]

This is a bit off topic but I booked my flight to shanghai about one month ago. Then heading to Tokyo. I am really having second thoughts on giving my business to china :( more due to politics than the actual country. I'm kinda stuck at this point. I won't get into my views or chinas policies cause this isn't allowed I think in forums.

I am suppose to go April 2. :(
You definitely should not go! That will teach them a lesson.

[Cerenity]

Maglev = fast train? I was gonna do that from shanghai to huangzhou?


no they are different. the maglev he's referring to is the one connecting to Pudong Airport
the train to hangzhou isnt a maglev, its just a faster than typical train

[trellaine201]

You definitely should not go! That will teach them a lesson.

Some people are idiots.:facepalm:

[Aznsilvrboy]

But how is that any different than any other country?

Travel to Toronto and you have no idea about cottage country, northern Ontario, the farm belts.....completely different.

The difference is that other countries don't spend a lot of money they don't have and do a lot of cosmetic projects to create a good impression for foreigners.. This is why people shouldn't visit China and then come back and say it's developed, it's utter nonsense.

[xlc_88]

I recommend people to visit their city's Chinatown to get a small taste before visiting China.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39gSS0rRc7w

[shybutsly]

This is a bit off topic but I booked my flight to shanghai about one month ago. Then heading to Tokyo. I am really having second thoughts on giving my business to china :( more due to politics than the actual country. I'm kinda stuck at this point. I won't get into my views or chinas policies cause this isn't allowed I think in forums.

I am suppose to go April 2. :(


The difference is that other countries don't spend a lot of money they don't have and do a lot of cosmetic projects to create a good impression for foreigners.. This is why people shouldn't visit China and then come back and say it's developed, it's utter nonsense.

Ultimately you should do as your conscience dictates. However in my experience, every country in the world is riddled with hypocrisy and if you really want to you can build a case to never travel anywhere. You can also make the same case for Canada.

Some examples ... taking a stand against travelling to a country with poverty, well travel to a first nation reserve to see poverty at home. Don't travel to Thailand because of its reputation for sex tourism, go to your nearest mini-mall and look for the massage parlor with neon signs that likely has trafficed women working there as defacto slaves. Take a stand on the ethics and quality of Chinese products, go to Quebec and see asbestos mines.

I would recommend that you still go on your trip and keep an open mind. Eventually, China should improve and perhaps your trip will give you a better understanding of how things really are instead of how the media chooses to present it - both good and bad.

[trellaine201]

Ultimately you should do as your conscience dictates. However in my experience, every country in the world is riddled with hypocrisy and if you really want to you can build a case to never travel anywhere. You can also make the same case for Canada.

Some examples ... taking a stand against travelling to a country with poverty, well travel to a first nation reserve to see poverty at home. Don't travel to Thailand because of its reputation for sex tourism, go to your nearest mini-mall and look for the massage parlor with neon signs that likely has trafficed women working there as defacto slaves. Take a stand on the ethics and quality of Chinese products, go to Quebec and see asbestos mines.

I would recommend that you stilt go on your trip and keep an open mind. Eventually, China should improve and perhaps your trip will give you a better understanding of how things really are instead of how the media chooses to present it - both good and bad.


I will still go and your right...think of it as a learning experience :) I'm very open minded having traveled quite a bit...thru Taiwan/hk and Japan 2-3 times. It's just china doesn't paint a good picture from the western world/media. Im sure it will be fun. It's all what I make of it. I'll try to disconnect from the negative.

Thanks

[Slippery_Pete]

I'm an engineer, I can't handle uncertainties. I don't visit Countries where I can't speak the languages, because of what might happen will happen.

Too bad for you. Now leave the rest of us who can handle uncertainties alone. LOL

[toisanwu]

I will still go and your right...think of it as a learning experience :) I'm very open minded having traveled quite a bit...thru Taiwan/hk and Japan 2-3 times. It's just china doesn't paint a good picture from the western world/media. Im sure it will be fun. It's all what I make of it. I'll try to disconnect from the negative.

Thanks

You would be surprised how different China is when compared to what you have learnt from the Western media.

Enjoy your trip!

[nalababe]

The difference is that other countries don't spend a lot of money they don't have and do a lot of cosmetic projects to create a good impression for foreigners.. This is why people shouldn't visit China and then come back and say it's developed, it's utter nonsense.

Sure the do...relatively money is pumped into Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal for the express purpose of getting visitors and making an impression.

Have you travelled to poorer areas like Newfoundland or other parts of Atlantic Canada. While I love these areas, they far from projecting the same image and quality of life. We drove through towns where there were countless buildings are almost falling down... If i consider work, There are many hospitals that are so remote or don't have the utilities, or don't have people who could use the equipment we sell. Also take a look at some of our reservations....

The only difference is scale.

Again, visit any city and you don't see the whole country.

As for cities like Beijing....you can definitely get a real understanding that life is different and hard. Just watch the people, walk through the hutongs. You can tell within seconds that it is different.

[Aznsilvrboy]

Sure the do...relatively money is pumped into Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal for the express purpose of getting visitors and making an impression.

Have you travelled to poorer areas like Newfoundland or other parts of Atlantic Canada. While I love these areas, they far from projecting the same image and quality of life. We drove through towns where there were countless buildings are almost falling down... If i consider work, There are many hospitals that are so remote or don't have the utilities, or don't have people who could use the equipment we sell. Also take a look at some of our reservations....

The only difference is scale.

Again, visit any city and you don't see the whole country.

As for cities like Beijing....you can definitely get a real understanding that life is different and hard. Just watch the people, walk through the hutongs. You can tell within seconds that it is different.

Oh yes, but not on the scale of the government going bankrupt and almost defaulting on its loans like the Railway Ministry in China. I've been to the following provinces: Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick , PEI, Nova Scotia. Their quality of life seemed pretty nice, it's a simpler life for sure, but not by any means worse.

[packardbell]

Oh yes, but not on the scale of the government going bankrupt and almost defaulting on its loans like the Railway Ministry in China. I've been to the following provinces: Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick , PEI, Nova Scotia. Their quality of life seemed pretty nice, it's a simpler life for sure, but not by any means worse.


simple is better. never could take the hong kong lifestyle even after 7 years lol!!!

[gobbledygoo]

Better get rid of all those things in your house that are Made in China then.

LOL yep kiss your iPhone, iPad, MP3 player, big screen TV, home theatre system, lamps, hair dryer, microwave, hot water kettle, coffee maker, and some of your brandname clothes/accessories goodbye :p

To keep my post on-topic: in big cities you can get by without knowing the local language like everywhere else in the world, and rural areas you have no chance with English of course lol. But what I find is that rural areas people are nicer and you get a truer sense of what that country is about. I would rather go into a restaurant that has little/no English and no pictures on the menu than to go to one that offers familiar NA fares like hamburgers and fries (why would you travel thousands of kilometres/miles to eat NA food in a foreign land?)

[packardbell]

i don't they have a problem in china. lol!!:)

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h343/packardbell2nhand/guangzhou%20part%202%20pictures%202012/P1080378.jpg



http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h343/packardbell2nhand/guangzhou%20part%202%20pictures%202012/P1080414.jpg
http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h343/packardbell2nhand/guangzhou%20part%202%20pictures%202012/P1080413.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h343/packardbell2nhand/guangzhou%20part%202%20pictures%202012/P1080415.jpg
http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h343/packardbell2nhand/tianhe%20guangzhou%202012/P1080251.jpg
http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h343/packardbell2nhand/cny%202012/P1070712.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h343/packardbell2nhand/cny%202012/P1070713.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h343/packardbell2nhand/gz%20pictures/DSC00059.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h343/packardbell2nhand/gz%20pictures/DSC00057.jpg

[Jimboski]

^ I don't get It..

[ryanmission]

^ I don't get It..

He's creepin people.

The moral of the story here, is dont help any foreigners in Canada who cant speak english...equality is important.

[packardbell]

He's creepin people.

The moral of the story here, is dont help any foreigners in Canada who cant speak english...equality is important.

It is not creeping but showing you how does it feel to be a minority.:D

[toisanwu]

i don't they have a problem in china. lol!!:)



Curious, were those photos taken around a Guangzhou bus station around which there are tons of wholesale outlets for clothing and shoes?

[packardbell]

Curious, were those photos taken around a Guangzhou bus station around which there are tons of wholesale outlets for clothing and shoes?

beijing road, tianhe district, zhongshan 5 road, wholesale home decor area in liwan district which is close to wholesale baby garment and guangzhou train station.

[toisanwu]

beijing road, tianhe district, zhongshan 5 road, wholesale home decor area in liwan district which is close to wholesale baby garment and guangzhou train station.

Interesting I was around that region last August, close to Zhongshan University on Zhongshan 3 Road.

[packardbell]

Interesting I was around that region last August, close to Zhongshan University on Zhongshan 3 Road.

I walked here from Zhongshan 8, get to see alot along the way lol! things changed alot last time when I was here during the Asian game.

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h343/packardbell2nhand/cny%202012/P1070738.jpg

[nalababe]

It is not creeping but showing you how does it feel to be a minority.:D

Most of us don't care if we are the minority. Hell, I get the same experience walking up around first Markham place or Pacific Mall.

As for other countries, we have already experienced being the focal point of glares and attention. In Tienanmen square and inside the Forbidden City, we had crowds around us and countless Chinese people wanting pictures with the blue eyed little boy and/or the nearly 6' tall long haired woman. We also had this happen in a number of other countries. We became the tourist attraction.

[divx]

lol Reading more of this guy's posts and I think troll is the right description. 'complete ****hole?' You could find some bad areas but after walking through some of the worst neighborhoods in Beijing and Tianjin I've seen worse in Vancouver's Downtown East Side. There is much to criticize Chine for but imho your post is ridiculous.
everything is wrong with that country, if it was any good I won't have left.

so would it be better to learn mandarin or cantonese? i'm going to teach english in either zhuhai or dongguan in a few weeks.
majority speaks mandarin.

divx is right. China spends a lot of money on cosmetic projects to make China look good to foreigners. This means any city that you can name. The fact that most people only know Beijing, Shanghai, Tianjin, Shenzhen, Guangzhou and only ever go to those places to visit means you're not seeing the whole picture.
finally someone who gets it.

You sure it's a fact?:facepalm:

How many non-Western and non-English speaking people living outside of Canada would really know any other Canadian places other than Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa?

When people travel to another country, they will always fly into big metropolitans, such as London or Paris or Beijing. Tourists tend to use those big cities as stepping stones to visit surrounding places. Take a look at the map of China, see if Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou are close together or not? Aren't they the perfect entry points for foreigners to visit China?
those cities are completely different from other areas of the country. if you gonna say that's like comparing toronto to some small town in saskatchewan, but the difference being the small towns in canada do not look poor, there is a smaller population but the houses, roads, and vehicles look just like the big city, where as in China small towns typically look like a dump.

A competent engineer thrives on challenges, that is, uncertainties. Engineers are problem solvers, not following prescribed routes.



You obviously cannot speak Chinese and therefore never has visited China, and you knew it's a complete **** hole? Oh, you learnt that from the media then, eh?



It's people like you that Quebecois want to have their own country.

good, they should separate, besides draining the transfer funds what else are they good for?

[divx]

But how is that any different than any other country?

Travel to Toronto and you have no idea about cottage country, northern Ontario, the farm belts.....completely different.

cottage country, norther ontario, farm belts, are all beautiful places, the only difference between canadian cities is population, housing, transportation, people's live style is generally comparable.

[divx]

I will still go and your right...think of it as a learning experience :) I'm very open minded having traveled quite a bit...thru Taiwan/hk and Japan 2-3 times. It's just china doesn't paint a good picture from the western world/media. Im sure it will be fun. It's all what I make of it. I'll try to disconnect from the negative.

Thanks

good luck, it's not just the western media paint china bad, the chinese living there hates china too.

[divx]

Sure the do...relatively money is pumped into Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal for the express purpose of getting visitors and making an impression.

Have you travelled to poorer areas like Newfoundland or other parts of Atlantic Canada. While I love these areas, they far from projecting the same image and quality of life. We drove through towns where there were countless buildings are almost falling down... If i consider work, There are many hospitals that are so remote or don't have the utilities, or don't have people who could use the equipment we sell. Also take a look at some of our reservations....

The only difference is scale.

Again, visit any city and you don't see the whole country.

As for cities like Beijing....you can definitely get a real understanding that life is different and hard. Just watch the people, walk through the hutongs. You can tell within seconds that it is different.

a lot people bringing up examples of poor areas in canada on indian reserves, while they are indeed poor areas, but the choice to stay in the poor area is decided by the individual, the government does not restrict them from moving, how can you compare that with China? In China the government tells you where you can and can't live. So if you got stuck in a poor area then you can't do anything to get better. Basically to sum up, if you are poor in a 1st world country, it's your own damn fault, if you are poor in a 3rd world country, then it's the government's fault.

[toisanwu]

a lot people bringing up examples of poor areas in canada on indian reserves, while they are indeed poor areas, but the choice to stay in the poor area is decided by the individual, the government does not restrict them from moving, how can you compare that with China? In China the government tells you where you can and can't live. So if you got stuck in a poor area then you can't do anything to get better. Basically to sum up, if you are poor in a 1st world country, it's your own damn fault, if you are poor in a 3rd world country, then it's the government's fault.

The whole discussion is going off tangent WRT to the original topic. But anyhow...

I am usually pretty critical of the Chinese government, but in this regard (WRT the bold), you are so 80's:facepalm: Right now, everything in China is money talks. As a Chinese citizen, one could pretty much live where he/she wants nowadays.

As for the Native Indians, they've ended up in the reserves not because of their own choices. You should read up on some recent Canadian history. Yes, they could all leave the reserves now, but they have been living off the merger handouts of the fed government for way too long. They lost their incentives to fight for better lives. Sad, truly sad.

[nerak]

a lot people bringing up examples of poor areas in canada on indian reserves, while they are indeed poor areas, but the choice to stay in the poor area is decided by the individual, the government does not restrict them from moving, how can you compare that with China? In China the government tells you where you can and can't live. So if you got stuck in a poor area then you can't do anything to get better. Basically to sum up, if you are poor in a 1st world country, it's your own damn fault, if you are poor in a 3rd world country, then it's the government's fault.

Natives lose some perks of their status when they leave the reserve. I don't think there's a relevant enough point to drag them into this conversation regardless of whether you think they choose to live off the government. Sort of apples and oranges.

"Off-reserve band members have only partial tax exemptions and may not be exempt from provincial tax laws." link (http://www.scowinstitute.ca/library/documents/RPRightsofWomen.pdf)

I also agree that money talks in China. Otherwise, the government can just tell people they must live in that empty residential city that was built. And those that were removed from their homes from the dam building could easily just live in one of those empty detached homes. And they are *slowly* coming to terms with democracy (I know I'll get flamed for this, but there IS a little bit more flexibility within what the government's find comfortable). Continuing with the dam example, the government has listened to people's wish to not be removed from their homes for the further building of the dams. And finally, people flocked to places like Shanghai from the rural areas the same way the Canadian ancestors flocked to the larger cities decades ago all for a chance of better life. It's pretty much how your iphone factory fills their plants.

And if it's true that it's the government's fault you're poor in China, then people wouldn't be starving themselves for 3 months just to buy an LV bag. There are capitalistic influences.

[elmst200]

well, you minced half of Beijing's population.

China is not a free country, people are restricted to moving around the country.

The number of 12m is for people with "resident permits" in Beijing. There are another 10m+ people who are residents of Beijing but do not have the "permits". Almost all statistics and social benefits are targeting the former 12m people while the latter enjoy virtually nothing, although they are law-abiding citizens who are working and paying taxes to the city.


Beijing have a population of around 12 million

[elmst200]

English in China is regarded as a language of higher being (elites), although the English spoken by the elites of China is to broken to understand. Most upper-class people send their kids to English crach schools in hope of being among the elites.

[nerak]

English in China is regarded as a language of higher being (elites), although the English spoken by the elites of China is to broken to understand. Most upper-class people send their kids to English crach schools in hope of being among the elites.

I don't know about it to comment, but this just reminded me of the professor that went onto their national TV channel (CCTV?) earlier this year saying anyone that doesn't speak Mandarin is a dog. Cantonese doesn't count, and English (Brits) too. He obviously wasn't sent to an English crach school as a child. Hahaha. [context: how dare HKers speak to mainlanders in cantonese?!?!?!] Such blatant racism.

[nalababe]

English in China is regarded as a language of higher being (elites), although the English spoken by the elites of China is to broken to understand. Most upper-class people send their kids to English crach schools in hope of being among the elites.

Our good friends taught at one top English based schools in Beijing. They were excellent teachers (extremely well respected in the IB community world wide). The positions are extremely highly fought after...and they therefore get the best of the best.

The education that they provide is exceptional, the materials and programs they implemented would match even the top private schools here...the English of any kids attending was not broken...

[vaportrails]

I'm gonna state the obvious since it doesn't seem to be obvious to a lot of people, if you go visit China (mainland), do NOT expect anyone to speak English at an usable level over there, so if you can only speak English, you will have a heck of a time unless you have a guide. I don't know why is that people kept asking if it's doable, where did you get that impression? Chinese people don't bother with English, and yes, I'm aware that the schools teach English but so does our schools which teaches French, and how many of you can speak French at an usable level? I thought it is reasonable to expect Quebecker to speak English, but when I went there around 2000, and went in to A&W (or was it KFC) that nobody speaks English, I had to point to the menu item. Is it too much to ask for the Quebeckers to speak English than to ask the Chinese to speak English?

If you can't order from a fast food menu in french, you're a sorry excuse for a Canadian. Oh, and lol@Quebecker - You're such a trog. Use fracophone or quebecois.

I learned french in school and I can hold a conversation.

[divx]

The whole discussion is going off tangent WRT to the original topic. But anyhow...

I am usually pretty critical of the Chinese government, but in this regard (WRT the bold), you are so 80's:facepalm: Right now, everything in China is money talks. As a Chinese citizen, one could pretty much live where he/she wants nowadays.

As for the Native Indians, they've ended up in the reserves not because of their own choices. You should read up on some recent Canadian history. Yes, they could all leave the reserves now, but they have been living off the merger handouts of the fed government for way too long. They lost their incentives to fight for better lives. Sad, truly sad.

my info is current as of last year, there is a bit more freedom as you can move but you do not enjoy the same status as locals, at least not until you get all the paperwork sorted out after bribing bunch officials.

the natives were wronged in the past, but that's no excuse for the present. I don't hold the present day japanese responsible for the WW2 genocide, there is no ill will now and all is forgiven, let what's past be behind us. I'm not aware of any Chinese using that as an excuse for incompetence, nor are there any descendents of the Japanese who got rounded up during WW2. The jews were wronged before and they aren't relying on handouts and been bottom feeders. Can you name another group of people besides the natives who feel so entitled to be leeches of society?

[divx]

English in China is regarded as a language of higher being (elites), although the English spoken by the elites of China is to broken to understand. Most upper-class people send their kids to English crach schools in hope of being among the elites.
indeed, those elite rich people, specialized private education like that is incredibility expensive, cost more than an average family's salary, you gotta be loaded or morally bankrupted to backdoor in there.

If you can't order from a fast food menu in french, you're a sorry excuse for a Canadian. Oh, and lol@Quebecker - You're such a trog. Use fracophone or quebecois.

I learned french in school and I can hold a conversation.

it's only fair for the minority to learn the language of the majority than the other way around.