UPS Brokerage Bill?!?!?

[mjbdc07]

it was a mistake, all is well now thanks everyone.

[iamnotamerican.com]

ok so a couple weeks ago i refused a package because it had a collect on delivery on it. maybe a week later i received the item again no cod this time. i thought great they deceided to waive the fee. Today i recieved a bill from them today for $21.96(payable upon receipt).
It was left at my door, i didn't technically accept it had no contact with the driver just found it when i got home.

i would call them right now but their offices are closed anyone have a similar situation or any advice on how i should proceed

You have accepted the delivery, since you clearly read the contents.

You owe them the money.

How should you proceed? Pay the bill, or dispute the charges and potentially have to pay more fees.

[cheaper_than_cheap]

I would pay the bill, learn the lesson and never use UPS from outside the country again.

[mjbdc07]

that's pretty bs if it had a COD why would they have left it at my door, going to call them later when they open

[Kasakato]

Call UPS and explain the situation. Since you never agreed to pay the brokerage fee (in fact, you reject it by turning it away), you may have a case.

[Jimboski]

What you can do Is possibly contact the sellers and ask If they can cover the brokerage fees for you.. Some companies do this where If you get dinged they'll cover the costs.

[NG]

You have accepted the delivery, since you clearly read the contents.

You owe them the money.

How should you proceed? Pay the bill, or dispute the charges and potentially have to pay more fees.

How'd the OP accept delivery?

He refused it the first time when they told him there was duty.

He came home and found it outside their door. Should he have just left it there for any random person walking by to steal? Then UPS and the seller would have claimed he received the item and he'd be in a bigger pickle.

The UPS driver never should have dropped the package off outside a door where it could be stolen.

The UPS driver never should have released a package that had brokerage fees to be collected.

The UPS driver is now hoping that he won't get in trouble since he didn't follow the rules.

What's next - telling someone who found their UPS TV tossed over their fence like that Youtube video to glue it back together?

And how the HELL might he "potentially have to pay more fees". That's a bullying chill tactic designed to scare the OP into paying with no proof to back it up (prove me wrong, prove me wrong).

[NG]

Call UPS and explain the situation. Since you never agreed to pay the brokerage fee (in fact, you reject it by turning it away), you may have a case.

+1 In no way did he accept delivery. He just brought a package inside so it couldn't be stolen by some passerby.

[mjbdc07]

i'll update you guys after i call ups, thanks for the help

[iamnotamerican.com]

+1 In no way did he accept delivery. He just brought a package inside so it couldn't be stolen by some passerby.

Betcha he didn't phone UPS to ask them to come pick up the package he was refusing.

By taking it inside and opening the shipping document/invoice, he has accepted delivery.

If he was refusing delivery, he should have left the package unopened and called UPS for a refusal pickup.

[zoro69]

was this something you bought? Surely you knew there would be tax to pay

How much was it? considering canadapost would be $8.50 plus tax it isnt that much of a premium. it would be pretty naive to think UPs was going to waive their fee and pay the tax on your item lol

[mjbdc07]

Betcha he didn't phone UPS to ask them to come pick up the package he was refusing.

By taking it inside and opening the shipping document/invoice, he has accepted delivery.

If he was refusing delivery, he should have left the package unopened and called UPS for a refusal pickup.

the only reason i refused the package was because there was a brokerage fee, when i found it at my door i made the mistake of thinking the fee had been waived. how was i to know i would be billed later, usually if there is a COD it wouldn't be left at my front door the driver would have to get payment for the package before releasing the package. but i guess now i know better for next time...

[Wingding]

i thought great they deceided to waive the fee.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

UPS deciding to waive a brokerage fee would be something like Canada Revenue deciding to waive charging you any income tax.

[D-Roc]

I had two packages recently delivered by UPS and they were sent from outside of Canada. I was not charged any brokerage fees.

[Coz4k]

I would let them run.

They will give up at some point.

[NG]

Betcha he didn't phone UPS to ask them to come pick up the package he was refusing.

By taking it inside and opening the shipping document/invoice, he has accepted delivery.

If he was refusing delivery, he should have left the package unopened and called UPS for a refusal pickup.

Why should the OP go around cleaning up the mistakes of the UPS driver? Why should he waste his time? Why, if he's like me and just has a PAYG cellphone, should he pay to call up UPS (likely being put on hold for a few good minutes) out of his own pocket?

I'm still waiting for a reply on my question:


And how the HELL might he "potentially have to pay more fees". That's a bullying chill tactic designed to scare the OP into paying with no proof to back it up (prove me wrong, prove me wrong).

Where's the link from UPS.com that says the customer will be punished with a higher fee if he appeals/complains of a delivery/brokerage.

[Kasakato]

Betcha he didn't phone UPS to ask them to come pick up the package he was refusing.

By taking it inside and opening the shipping document/invoice, he has accepted delivery.

If he was refusing delivery, he should have left the package unopened and called UPS for a refusal pickup.

Sounds like negative option billing - an illegal business practice. UPS cannot drop packages off at your house and then expect you to call and ask for a (re)pick-up. If things worked like that I would start dropping gold bars at your doorstop and expect either a call or payment.

[zoro69]

Sounds like negative option billing - an illegal business practice. UPS cannot drop packages off at your house and then expect you to call and ask for a (re)pick-up. If things worked like that I would start dropping gold bars at your doorstop and expect either a call or payment.


uh, while op seems to be deliberately leaving out some details, it would seem highly, highly likely he ordered something to be delivered by ups. UPS wasn't leaving him an unsolicited gift. UPs has nothing to do with the law that requires tax to be collected.

[iamnotamerican.com]

Why should the OP go around cleaning up the mistakes of the UPS driver?

OP (presumably) ordered something which was to be delivered through UPS. UPS is contracted to deliver the item - there's no mistake on the driver's part that I can see here. However, if OP was adamant they did not want the package anymore, they have the option to refuse delivery, and therefore they have the option to contact the shipping company and explain they had no intent to accept delivery of the package and request a pickup for the incorrectly or improperly delivered item. IT appears OP didn't do that, and they went ahead and opened at a minimum the shipping documentation, and possible the package itself, with the latter confirming acceptance of the package as delivered.


Why should he waste his time? If he doesn't want to accept the package, I wouldn't think it was a waste of time.


Why, if he's like me and just has a PAYG cellphone, should he pay to call up UPS (likely being put on hold for a few good minutes) out of his own pocket?

When you make a decision to limit your phone options to PAYG, that's the risk you run. I have a PAYG phone also, and on rare occasions, I have wished I didn't. Having said that, if you have the internet, you have free North American calling (at least to 1800/1888 numbers, through Skype or Google phone. Then again, there are always pay phones and or work phones (if you're able to use a work phone)




I'm still waiting for a reply on my question:
Where's the link from UPS.com that says the customer will be punished with a higher fee if he appeals/complains of a delivery/brokerage.
Didn't see this, sorry. There is no link. There doesn't need to be. The higher fees could be court and filing costs, should the creditor (in this case, UPS) take the outstanding debt to court for recovery. That was what I was referring to, although the creditor could have some additional fees - late payment fees possibly, or interest on unpaid bills, possibly.

[Wingding]

I had two packages recently delivered by UPS and they were sent from outside of Canada. I was not charged any brokerage fees.

So what? That just means that
a) the contents of each was valued under $20;
b) they came UPS air express, rather than ground;
c) the shipper authorized the brokerage and import charges to be billed to him/her; and/or
d) the goods went through an intermediary logistics stage in Canada, such as break-bulk and repacking by UPS (which the big courier companies commonly do for large US mail-order companies such as Land's End)

. . . . none of which are germaine to OP's situation.

[iamnotamerican.com]

Sounds like negative option billing - an illegal business practice. UPS cannot drop packages off at your house and then expect you to call and ask for a (re)pick-up. .

Has nothing to do with negative option billing. As outlined in another post, UPS is contractually required to deliver the package (in this case, a package presumably ordered by the OP) or return it to sender if undeliverable. In this case, they made a genuine and successful delivery attempt (improper by leaving it on the doorstep maybe, but still successful). If OP no longer wanted the item they initially ordered, then it's not unreasonable to expect they would inform someone they did not want to accept the delivery.


f things worked like that I would start dropping gold bars at your doorstop and expect either a call or payment.
I'd be quite grateful after the first bar, since I am not legally obliged to pay for unsolicited merchandise. If you want to keep delivering gold bars to me, you go right ahead. I don't want them and I didn't order them, but who am I to offend someone in that manner?

Unfortunately for your comparison however, as far as we know, the package about which OP has written was not unsolicited.

[makellen]

So if you order from a smaller company from the US that delivers via UPS and the product is over $20 you will be charged brokerage fees? How much is duty usually? Sorry, I have not done this before. I am looking in to buying a special litter box for my cat since I switched to pine pellets, but it only seems to be available in the states. I called the company to ask how much it would cost. The total was $25.48 + $20 shipping by UPS. They do not seem to charge taxes, but did not know if I'd have to pay duty or how much that would be...

Anyone with more experience with customs/duties know what I should expect? This is being shipped to Ontario, so I should expect to pay sales tax at least, right?

Thanks!

[Kasakato]

Has nothing to do with negative option billing. As outlined in another post, UPS is contractually required to deliver the package (in this case, a package presumably ordered by the OP) or return it to sender if undeliverable. In this case, they made a genuine and successful delivery attempt (improper by leaving it on the doorstep maybe, but still successful). If OP no longer wanted the item they initially ordered, then it's not unreasonable to expect they would inform someone they did not want to accept the delivery.


I'd be quite grateful after the first bar, since I am not legally obliged to pay for unsolicited merchandise. If you want to keep delivering gold bars to me, you go right ahead. I don't want them and I didn't order them, but who am I to offend someone in that manner?

Unfortunately for your comparison however, as far as we know, the package about which OP has written was not unsolicited.

The package is unsolicited after it was rejected on the basis of additional brokerage charges. Our OP turned the package away - UPS had completed its due diligence by making a delivery attempt. The fact UPS later came back and dropped the package off again, without the OP requesting it, makes any additional charges extraneous as condition to delivery.

Again, just like you said, the OP is not responsible for unsolicited goods. There simply is no obligation to pay.

[NG]

OP (presumably) ordered something which was to be delivered through UPS. UPS is contracted to deliver the item - there's no mistake on the driver's part that I can see here. However, if OP was adamant they did not want the package anymore, they have the option to refuse delivery, and therefore they have the option to contact the shipping company and explain they had no intent to accept delivery of the package and request a pickup for the incorrectly or improperly delivered item. IT appears OP didn't do that, and they went ahead and opened at a minimum the shipping documentation, and possible the package itself, with the latter confirming acceptance of the package as delivered.

If he doesn't want to accept the package, I wouldn't think it was a waste of time.

He refused the package when told of the duties the first time. Often online stores don't tell the customer who the shipper will be and sometimes will even switch shippers without notifying the customer.

After he refused the package he did his duty. The fact that the package was left like it was a piece of trash on his property after the fact is secondary.


When you make a decision to limit your phone options to PAYG, that's the risk you run. I have a PAYG phone also, and on rare occasions, I have wished I didn't. Having said that, if you have the internet, you have free North American calling (at least to 1800/1888 numbers, through Skype or Google phone. Then again, there are always pay phones and or work phones (if you're able to use a work phone)

There's no risk for me to take nor would I go to the trouble of plugging in my headset or use a payphone to clean up his mistake.

UPS is lucky the OP just didn't leave the package out there to be stolen and then filed a chargeback since it wasn't properly delivered.


Didn't see this, sorry. There is no link. There doesn't need to be. The higher fees could be court and filing costs, should the creditor (in this case, UPS) take the outstanding debt to court for recovery. That was what I was referring to, although the creditor could have some additional fees - late payment fees possibly, or interest on unpaid bills, possibly.

You never said he could incur higher costs if he didn't pay. You said he could incur higher costs if he even contested the charge.


How should you proceed? Pay the bill, or
dispute the charges and potentially have to pay more fees.

There is no risk of higher fees simply to dispute the charges however I'm sure misrepresent what you said again to defend your position.

[HoleyMoley]

the only reason i refused the package was because there was a brokerage fee, when i found it at my door i made the mistake of thinking the fee had been waived. how was i to know i would be billed later, usually if there is a COD it wouldn't be left at my front door the driver would have to get payment for the package before releasing the package. but i guess now i know better for next time...

Why would you assume UPS would waive their brokerage fees?

If you refused the package because of the fees, then it was your legal responsibility to communicate with the seller that you are refusing to pay for an item already shipped. You would need to review the terms of sale between you and the buyer to determine if you can refuse to accept the package without penalty. If that is the case, the seller would be responsible for the brokerage fees. Either way, UPS did their duty, and it is not their responsibility to tell you how much it will cost - it was the sellers.

The issue is between you and the seller, not UPS.

[HoleyMoley]

He refused the package when told of the duties the first time. Often online stores don't tell the customer who the shipper will be and sometimes will even switch shippers without notifying the customer. After he refused the package he did his duty. The fact that the package was left like it was a piece of trash on his property after the fact is secondary.......

The customer had an agreement with the seller. His duty was to review the terms of sale, see if he can cancel the purchase without penalty, and discuss it from there. UPS has no contract with the buyer - their obligation is to fulfill the terms with the shipper (in this case, the seller).


....UPS is lucky the OP just didn't leave the package out there to be stolen and then filed a chargeback since it wasn't properly delivered....

This is fraud. If the OP ordered the item, it was successfully delivered. The seller needs to review if there were terms in the sale agreement defining "properly delivered".


... You never said he could incur higher costs if he didn't pay. You said he could incur higher costs if he even contested the charge. There is no risk of higher fees simply to dispute the charges however I'm sure misrepresent what you said again to defend your position.

It depends on the term of sale. If the terms allow the customer to refuse the item upon delivery without penalty, then NO, there would be no additional fees. If the terms told the seller they would responsible for any brokerage fees/taxes/customs, then the seller would legally be liable for paying 2 brokerage fees - one for the delivery to the customer, the second for the delivery back to the seller (after he refused the item).

If the customer keeps the item and ignores the UPS bill, then both UPS would have a claim against the buyer (for the unpaid brokerage fees) as well as the seller (for not fulfilling the terms of the sale).


Sounds like negative option billing - an illegal business practice. UPS cannot drop packages off at your house and then expect you to call and ask for a (re)pick-up. If things worked like that I would start dropping gold bars at your doorstop and expect either a call or payment.

UPS has a contract with the seller, not the buyer. If the seller pays them to deliver a package to an address, UPS did their job and nothing remotely illegal.
If the seller has a contract with the buyer stipulating that the buyer will be responsible for brokerage fees, and can show that to UPS, the buyer is committing an illegal act against both the seller (for not fulfilling their obligation according to the contract) and UPS.

[NG]

Why would you assume UPS would waive their brokerage fees?

If you refused the package because of the fees, then it was your legal responsibility to communicate with the seller that you are refusing to pay for an item already shipped. You would need to review the terms of sale between you and the buyer to determine if you can refuse to accept the package without penalty. If that is the case, the seller would be responsible for the brokerage fees. Either way, UPS did their duty, and it is not their responsibility to tell you how much it will cost - it was the sellers.

The issue is between you and the seller, not UPS.

Where's your proof that it's his "legal" responsibility to contact the seller? It would be considered good form and he may very well be required to eat the purchase and shipping costs but unless he's contractually required to contract the seller per the TOS of the store he bought it from he doesn't need to speak with them.

Also where you're proof that the seller would be responsible for the brokerage fees? Is it in the TOS of dealing with UPS if a customer refuses a package it's billed to the seller's account? If so where?

If I was the OP I'd just stick the notice on the fridge and forget about it and see if UPS sends him an invoice for amount owing and take it from there.

[HoleyMoley]

Where's your proof that it's his "legal" responsibility to contact the seller? It would be considered good form and he may very well be required to eat the purchase and shipping costs but unless he's contractually required to contract the seller per the TOS of the store he bought it from he doesn't need to speak with them....

The OP has a legal agreement with the seller. If the agreement stipulates the buyer is bound to pay any associated brokerage fees upon delivery, and the buyer refuses, they are committing an act of fraud.
If the OP wasn't bound to pay any brokerage fees, then the seller would be held responsible. But UPS would still file a claim against the buyer for unpaid fees.


Also where you're proof that the seller would be responsible for the brokerage fees? Is it in the TOS of dealing with UPS if a customer refuses a package it's billed to the seller's account? If so where?

UPS has a legal agreement with the seller to deliver a package. The seller is bound to ensure UPS is paid for that service. Brokerage fees are included in the service fees paid to deliver.


If I was the OP I'd just stick the notice on the fridge and forget about it and see if UPS sends him an invoice for amount owing and take it from there.

UPS already sent him an invoice. The OP mentioned it in his first post.

[cheaper_than_cheap]

So if you order from a smaller company from the US that delivers via UPS and the product is over $20 you will be charged brokerage fees? How much is duty usually? Sorry, I have not done this before. I am looking in to buying a special litter box for my cat since I switched to pine pellets, but it only seems to be available in the states. I called the company to ask how much it would cost. The total was $25.48 + $20 shipping by UPS. They do not seem to charge taxes, but did not know if I'd have to pay duty or how much that would be...

Anyone with more experience with customs/duties know what I should expect? This is being shipped to Ontario, so I should expect to pay sales tax at least, right?

Thanks!
Sadly in this situation I would not buy from this vendor. I personally am tired of being raped by UPS. I would find someone else that ships USPS or do without.

Somewhere buried deep within the UPS.com site there is a list of the brokerage fees, and actually it's not all that expensive for small amounts like that (they have a tiered system based on declared value), but I avoid UPS like the plague.

[NG]

The OP has a legal agreement with the seller. If the agreement stipulates the buyer is bound to pay any associated brokerage fees upon delivery, and the buyer refuses, they are committing an act of fraud.
If the OP wasn't bound to pay any brokerage fees, then the seller would be held responsible. But UPS would still file a claim against the buyer for unpaid fees.



UPS has a legal agreement with the seller to deliver a package. The seller is bound to ensure UPS is paid for that service. Brokerage fees are included in the service fees paid to deliver.

You're making a lot of assumptions of the contract the OP entered into without having any idea what they are. As such there's no need to tell the OP he's "legally" obligated to pay the fee.


UPS already sent him an invoice. The OP mentioned it in his first post.

The OP said that in his first post. He also said that he refused the package when they first came to his door. They ignored his request the first time and just dropped the package off; If I were him I'd ignore them and see if they follow up.

I'm betting there's a good shot they won't bother to follow up. If they do, since he declined to pay for it the first time, he can tell them to just come and get the package back.

Better yet just 'happen' to be out when they arrive the first time.

[iamnotamerican.com]

The package is unsolicited after it was rejected on the basis of additional brokerage charges. Our OP turned the package away - UPS had completed its due diligence by making a delivery attempt. The fact UPS later came back and dropped the package off again, without the OP requesting it, makes any additional charges extraneous as condition to delivery.

Again, just like you said, the OP is not responsible for unsolicited goods. There simply is no obligation to pay.

With all due respect, you're wrong here.

The contract was between the buyer and the seller. The buyer ordered the product from the seller, and therefore it is not an unsolicited product.

OP may not have accepted the shipping company's (UPS) delivery terms, but he would have undoubtedly accepted the seller's terms.

The buyer is quite within his rights to dispute the charges from the shipping company, but he is still fully liable for the actual item.

[iamnotamerican.com]

He refused the package when told of the duties the first time. Often online stores don't tell the customer who the shipper will be and sometimes will even switch shippers without notifying the customer.

No bearing on the buyer's contract with the seller. The item was not unsolicited and therefore OP is responsible for it until it has been returned to the seller or they can prove the item was refused at delivery and retained by the shipping company.


After he refused the package he did his duty. The fact that the package was left like it was a piece of trash on his property after the fact is secondary.
I'm verging on agreeing with you on this statement, however the fact OP accepted the redelivered item by opening it and keeping it is key...and certainly far from being secondary.


There's no risk for me to take (when using a PAYG phone)
Oh, yes there is...you run the risk of using up your prepaid time if there's something pressing or time consuming. I've been there and done that.


nor would I go to the trouble of plugging in my headset or use a payphone to clean up his mistake.
There was no mistake. This is a redelivery attempt (legitimate or not, the burden of proof would be the OP's to establish), and part of that burden of proof would be to establish a good faith and reasonable effort to refuse the re/delivered package. Simply saying "I didn't want to experience the high level of stress involved in plugging in a headset or picking up the handset on a payphone and dialling a toll-free number" wouldn't cut it. It's not at all unreasonable to send an Email or pick up a phone or plug in a headset to arrange a pickup of an incorrectly delivered item.


UPS is lucky the OP just didn't leave the package out there to be stolen and then filed a chargeback since it wasn't properly delivered.
Wouldn't have had much bearing on UPS at all, unless their contract with the seller outlined full liability. Having said that, the scenario you are suggesting would result in the buyer being legally liable for the cost of the item (and therefore a chargeback being refused) because OP did nothing to mitigate the loss.


You never said he could incur higher costs if he didn't pay. You said he could incur higher costs if he even contested the charge.
...and one contests the charges by refusing to pay (at least, that's how it's usually done). While you certainly can dispute charges after you pay them, often you're in a better negotiating position if you refuse payment first. Not always, but often.


There is no risk of higher fees simply to dispute the charges however
To basically say "I disagree with these charges..." as a dispute, no. But if the dispute involves a refusal to pay and results in court action being taken in order to recover the outstanding disputed fees, there very well could be court fees and legal fees. Those are the fees to which I was referring in my original comment, and summarised in a followup post. There could even be other fees. I've never been sued before, so I wouldn't know. I'm sorry I wrote in an unclear fashion causing you to misinterpret my statement, but thanks for requoting it in context.


I'm sure misrepresent what you said again to defend your position.
...I notice you've done a good job at attempting to misrepresent what I and others have said, so I guess you're an expert at misrepresentation? I'm just glad you're not a lawyer. :)

[Kasakato]

With all due respect, you're wrong here.

The contract was between the buyer and the seller. The buyer ordered the product from the seller, and therefore it is not an unsolicited product.

OP may not have accepted the shipping company's (UPS) delivery terms, but he would have undoubtedly accepted the seller's terms.

The buyer is quite within his rights to dispute the charges from the shipping company, but he is still fully liable for the actual item.

We never were discussing the obligation to pay the vendor, only UPS's brokerage fee. :facepalm: Even if we were discussing an obligation to pay the seller, the specifics of the agreement between the buyer and merchant would come into play - its impossible to speculate further without that agreement.

[Kasakato]

I'm verging on agreeing with you on this statement, however the fact OP accepted the redelivered item by opening it and keeping it is key...and certainly far from being secondary.

There was no mistake. This is a redelivery attempt (legitimate or not, the burden of proof would be the OP's to establish), and part of that burden of proof would be to establish a good faith and reasonable effort to refuse the re/delivered package. Simply saying "I didn't want to experience the high level of stress involved in plugging in a headset or picking up the handset on a payphone and dialling a toll-free number" wouldn't cut it. It's not at all unreasonable to send an Email or pick up a phone or plug in a headset to arrange a pickup of an incorrectly delivered item.



The OP took a positive and conscious effort to reject the package at the door on the grounds that it was not wanted after brokerage is assessed. That in and of itself is his duty to contest the charge, no further action is necessary.
UPS has already been sued for this exact issue. A preliminary decision was rendered last year finding that brokerage services are in fact unsolicited services under the CPA.