Economics/Accounting

[Thevinstar]

Hi Everyone, I just opened an account and this is my first post so bear with me.

I am a southern ontarioGrade 11 student interested in Economics/Accounting.

I have been interested in economics since the 2009 recession when that sort of thing intrigued me. I am in grade 11 and have completed grade 11 Accounting (Last semester) I am currently doing 12 accounting. I have found so far these courses to be very easy, like I just get it.

I have always been a strong student and I have never had much problems putting up high 70's to low 90's in school by not completing a ton of homework and not putting in lots of effort. However, I have never really been an overly strong math student as I finished with a 53 last semester in university, but I had a reasonable solid understanding of most of the topics but I just thought I could get away by slacking (Which, I realized doesn't work past grades 9 and 10 in life) I did understand most of the topics(some I didn't understand until I was taught one on one), as I said, but some, Such as Trig identites, completely went over my head.

I am taking 12 economics next year. I am also seriously considering doing an economics degree at a nearby university.

However I am very worried that I will struggle with the Calculus and Advanced math in it ( I am fully prepared to apply myself to a significant extent in order to succeed)

I am very interested in economics as a whole but mainly in the theory. (Granted I don't hate or dislike math, but just do not think it is my strong suit, I just read Steven Levitts "Freakonomics" AND absolutely LOVED it.)

Now, granted, I am not sure if I will find these subjects hard (As I didn't find math THAT difficult, just that I slacked, [One unit I thought the stuff was soooo easy based on the lesson, didn't do any homework or anything, missed a few days due to a concussion and had to write the test late and failed it) but I just want to get a sense.



A few questions I would like to ask.

Can I succed in economics and not be extremely strong in subjects such as basic Calculus and Econometrics?


But, On the other hand, I have read online, and it seems alot of people think that most economic minded people hate accounting and vice versa, so I ask...

Does accounting get signifigantly harder at the designation level?

and with economics, Is it signifigantly hard with the math at university level? (Granted I havn't even taken 12 yet but I have watched some Macro/Micro econ videos on KhanAcademy and found them quite intriguing)

Is economics fairly open ended... Like can I get my econ undergrad and then decided I want to be certain finance related career and then continue getting the additional education required for it?

In 6 years when i'm finishing my degree, what will the jobs be in? (It seems as though there are always accounting jobs available, even if it is a $35,000 year job as a payroll clerk, better than 10.25 at Walmart 8 hours/week)

and finally, with an Econ undergrad, what could I be right out of school?

(Odviously if I'm going for postgrad I will need a job)


I know it's a big first post but I have alot of questions, If you read it all, I appreciate the time/effort.

[HTTP04]

UofT student here,

I am not majoring in economics nor accounting (Im in Finance) but I took a fair amount of economic courses so I will give you my 2 cents:

I dont recall having any difficult mathematics in economic courses

Most I have ever used was things like: quadratic formula, differentiating

Even if you are not a math whiz, I wouldnt worry

[bluejazzy]

Economics by requires more mathematical skills by far. Accounting is more applied, but economics requires serious comfortability with numbers, especially if you want to make a career out of it and that most likely requires a post grad in economics.

[Thevinstar]

UofT student here,

I am not majoring in economics nor accounting (Im in Finance) but I took a fair amount of economic courses so I will give you my 2 cents:

I dont recall having any difficult mathematics in economic courses

Most I have ever used was things like: quadratic formula, differentiating

Even if you are not a math whiz, I wouldnt worry

Okay, thanks that is reassuring, I am fairly confortable with the quadratic formula.

Anyone else?

[the_fm]

Does accounting get signifigantly harder at the designation level?

oh yes but mainly because everything you learned throughout your degree, you'll get all of that lump into one single class (kind of)
there's not much math besides the basic stuff. it's all about understanding the situation and being able to dissect it and help your client understand it

[Thevinstar]

oh yes but mainly because everything you learned throughout your degree, you'll get all of that lump into one single class (kind of)
there's not much math besides the basic stuff. it's all about understanding the situation and being able to dissect it and help your client understand it

Extremely reassuring, thanks, anyone else?

[appletjuice]

Graduate level economics requires very strong mathematical ability. For undergrad, it really depends on the class or the type of degree. If you're, for example, a business student taking a few Econ classes, the math won't appear hard. But for a degree, you'll need to be comfortable with calculus.

That said, don't let this scare you. :) Give it a shot if you like it. Sometimes math skills take time to develop.

[AstonM]

I'm a Senior Econ major right now at university so I think I can help with your questions, PM me with any you have on top of what you posted. A lot of questions in your OP but generally I think this will help.

1) Econ is only math intensive if you are going planning on going to a graduate level. I've had a 1-2 classes with double integrals or Lagrangians but that's it, most of it is around a calc 2 (2nd calculus course in Uni, generally, or BC calc in states) level or below. Vast majority of courses for my major will only require basic calc.

2) Econ in school is not like Freakonomics. That is a great book that I also loved and it does look into some really interesting topics but it is more of a glossy version of the majority of the field. This will vary somewhat depending on if your school is a practical econ or theoretical econ school. Just don't want you having an overzealous view of econ.

3)University courses will require you to work more for a decent grade, this is true for most/all majors

4)I actually love accounting and have taken 4 accounting courses while at school. Good knowledge to have wherever you are.

5)You can succeed in econ with mediocre math skills. Don't forget you are only in Gr 11 and you have plenty of time to learn calc. It gets easier with time and don't forget to go to extra help sessions, especially if they are close to 1:1. These will help greatly and office hours for uni classes will help a lot, GO to them!

6) My econ degree was fairly open, take minimum of 8 major courses out of around 45-50ish (i think)

7) Jobs after graduation vary significantly. You may find it harder to find a finance degree if you are competing with finance majors, but you have a broader understanding of markets and the world and it will help you find something. It may be more open, though slightly tougher to get a job (in today's market, but you are ~6 years out).

Hope this helps, others may have different opinions so make sure you take in all accounts and feel free to PM me for any other info. Don't be scared to pursue what you want to do!

[RodDog999]

I wouldn't worry about strong math skills. Economics is a social science, and not a hard science - even though the field likes to think of itself as a hard science. My calculus class was leaps and bounds tougher than my first and second year economics classes. Not sure what sort of math is required at the third of fourth year level though but I can't imagine it being anywhere close to the hard sciences.

[Hansol]

Accounting math isn`t anything to worry about. You just add and subtract, multiply a few things, and mess around with compound interest. Nothing hard or abstract involved.

[tylaw83]

Don't listen to the ones here who base their "advice" on a few econ courses they took in undergrad.

Graduate level economics is significantly harder and more numbers based, and often required for some of the more interesting assignments/positions.

[AstonM]

Don't listen to the ones here who base their "advice" on a few econ courses they took in undergrad.

Graduate level economics is significantly harder and more numbers based, and often required for some of the more interesting assignments/positions.

Agreed. I took one grad level course and it was a different beast. All depends on what you want to do.

[apollom]

To complete an economics undergrad, you will need to be decent at math. To pursue economics at the graduate level, you will need to be very strong at math. In fact, a maths degree would be just as appropriate (or more appropriate) than an econ undergrad if you are looking at econ grad studies.

Accounting is not difficult (anyone who does reasonably well at university will have no problem) and is something you can pursue after you econ degree.

[fuzzy_avocado]

If you're looking to get an accounting designation you are able to do this WITHOUT a university degree (except for a CA). CGA and CMA designations can be attained without going to uni. Just wanted to let you know before you plop a lot of time and $$$$$$$ for a uni degree in the future.

[bruizeman]

If you're looking to get an accounting designation you are able to do this WITHOUT a university degree (except for a CA). CGA and CMA designations can be attained without going to uni. Just wanted to let you know before you plop a lot of time and $$$$$$$ for a uni degree in the future.

Also, don't listen to people like him, who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

Economics is essentially describing human behaviour through mathematical models. You better believe you'll need a deep knowledge of mathematics in order to accomplish that.

[rasadam]

Accounting is a huge umbrella of professions. I don't want to discourage you, but don't consider your high school courses as much of an indicator of what the field is actually like. Even a major in accounting in University is not much of an indicator of a career in accounting.

Math is also a little vague too. If you consider statistics as part of math, there are some professions within Accounting that will use heavy statistics. For example, if you specialize in specific types of auditing, you will need data analytic skills to be able to extrapolate data. Most of this is done with auditing software/tools, but an understanding of statistics would be key to be able to use and interpret the output of audit procedures.

Generally, as you advance in Accounting (regardless of streams), it's your soft skills and judgement that matter more than technical skills.

You're very young and you have a long road ahead of you. Don't get too caught up in the long road ahead as you have a lot of hurdles to cross on your way there. At your age, there is a high probability that your interests will change as your grow older, especially in your 20s. Approach education with an open mind and explore your interests. If you're weak in math now, don't let that exclude things that may interest you. There are multiple methods of getting to the same end result (ie alternative ways to study or improve technical skills, like calculus, if a university course requires it for whatever you want to do)

[rasadam]

If you're looking to get an accounting designation you are able to do this WITHOUT a university degree (except for a CA). CGA and CMA designations can be attained without going to uni. Just wanted to let you know before you plop a lot of time and $$$$$$$ for a uni degree in the future.
Wrong. The CMA program has a degree entrance requirement.

The CGA program has a degree exit requirement. As such, you can enter the program without a degree but you need to obtain a degree before getting the designation.

[tylaw83]

Math is also a little vague too. If you consider statistics as part of math, there are some professions within Accounting that will use heavy statistics. For example, if you specialize in specific types of auditing, you will need data analytic skills to be able to extrapolate data. Most of this is done with auditing software/tools, but an understanding of statistics would be key to be able to use and interpret the output of audit procedures.

Data mining for forensic audits doesn't take much more than excel.
IT audits typically are not performed by accountants.

So...what are you talking about?

[rasadam]

Data mining for forensic audits doesn't take much more than excel.
CAATs (Computer Aided Auditing Tools) are far more than Excel.


IT audits typically are not performed by accountants.
There are IT components to financial statement audits. I wasn't even referring to IT audits anyway. On a typical audit (especially banking and insurance audits), you perform many analytics on system data (eg journal entries, transactions, claims, premiums, etc).


So...what are you talking about?
Speaking from experience, since this is what I do for a living.

[BananaHunter]

For economics, you shouldn't worry too much about math. Economics is more of a social science, but you should note that economics is a field where there has been an increase in mathematical formalism. Put it this way, you don't really need to know calculus to understand the concept of supply and demand. But some high level academics are bored so they start teasing you with unnecessarily difficult math problems. You do need some degree of math to get through economic courses. But not knowing math will not stop you from understanding economics.

I think the stronger factor that should be influencing you is job prospects. People always tell you to do what you love. I agree to some extent. But note that you're going to feel absolutely miserable if you can't get a job (which leads to other miserable things like not being able to raise a family). I think accounting definitely has stronger job prospects. For economics majors, an undergrad degree doesn't excite employers. People usually hire economists for high level policy making. It can be really hard for an undergrad to distinguish himself. Many of the most famous economists have an academic background. They write some famous papers and have years of teaching experience. I think it's pretty hard to compete with these people for jobs.

If you really like economics, or any subject just for the theory of it, nothing should stop you from learning. You can take engineering or accounting and read economics books in your spare time. I think hobbies do not always have to translate into a career.

[adehbone]

OP your post is so long-winded and incoherent, I just skimmed it. Either way let me break this down for you simply not sure why people are responding even. Not sure wtf you looking at jobs post graduation. Currently in your situation no good school for accounting or economics will take you.

Things you need to fix:
-Math average of 53. This is abysmal. Unless you get an 84+ in your last year math courses. I would say do not even consider economics. You will never have the logical/mathematical aptitude to understand economics in depth which is what it takes to get a 85+ in university Econ. If you can not re-arrange a formula, or understand how a basic derivative works you will never get how elasticity or interest rates work. I have seen too many dumb math social science majors get owned in 1st year economics.

-You do not do lots of hw and sit on your ***** . Guess what your grades are not all that great, so not sure who you fooling here? Besides yourself. Get your butt into gear. Once you have a 85+ average in top 6 and math/english. We could start to talk.

-No accounting program in the country will take anyone with a calculus grade less than 75. Atleast they did not in my day. All the good programs, AFM as well I beleive look for 87+.

Stop worrying about life 6-10 years from now. Focus on the here and now, cause you gotta lots of **** to improve right now to begin with.

[onsen]

and finally, with an Econ undergrad, what could I be right out of school?

(Odviously if I'm going for postgrad I will need a job)

Try to find what you really wanna do for living after school. Search job postings in WORKOPOLIS/MONSTER.CA for requirements, and choose what to study in post-secondary. If you can't decide for yourself, print off postings and take them to your school counselor for advice.

[appletjuice]

What schools do you guys go to that doesn't require a decent level of mathematical ability for an Econ degree? Even for a BA with no intention of anything post-grad will require Math/stats/and Econ courses that require math and strong analytical abilities. No, it won't be like a physics degree, but you'll need math skills for the core Econ classes (not talking about the electives that business/finance majors take).

[Metagame]

What schools do you guys go to that doesn't require a decent level of mathematical ability for an Econ degree? Even for a BA with no intention of anything post-grad will require Math/stats/and Econ courses that require math and strong analytical abilities. No, it won't be like a physics degree, but you'll need math skills for the core Econ classes (not talking about the electives that business/finance majors take).

Lol at you for considering calculus 1 and 2 and very elementary linear algebra as "decent level of mathematical ability". :lol:

[nauru]

What schools do you guys go to that doesn't require a decent level of mathematical ability for an Econ degree? Even for a BA with no intention of anything post-grad will require Math/stats/and Econ courses that require math and strong analytical abilities. No, it won't be like a physics degree, but you'll need math skills for the core Econ classes (not talking about the electives that business/finance majors take).

McGill gives economics degrees with almost no math required, last time I checked. Not even a single econometrics course required either.

[eiad77]

Lol at you for considering calculus 1 and 2 and very elementary linear algebra as "decent level of mathematical ability". :lol:

I'd say that's "decent". Which degrees besides engineering, physics, math, or statistics require more math than that? All he is saying is that you need more math in economics than other "social sciences".

Actually, the poster above me is correct. The non-honours economics at McGill doesn't require any calculus. I think they have separate questions for non-honours economics students. I knew a transfer student who came from McGill and took a few upper level economics courses at UBC and was in for a rude awakening hahaha.

[Macman8507]

I go to Mcmaster currently registered as an Accounting major. I have been taking upper level maths and Economics courses throughout my three years at Mac. They definitely are not easy, the advanced econometrics is equally on par in terms of difficulty with taxation. However I truly believe that nothing is too difficult to learn. Sure it might take you a little longer than the next individual but with persistant effort you can obtain an equal understanding. Also in high school i hated math, got a 65 in advanced functions and didn't take any calc. I took grade 12 calc during my first year at Mac it was hard, but the professor made the subject extremely interesting. I took the business calc and frankly it was a joke. I then took calc 2 and calc 3 and linear algebra 1,2 and a course on differentials . Learned a lot and did well in all of them. Long story short your high school marks do not indicate your strengths and pursue what you enjoy. I have done well in accounting but will likely switch into the Math and Economics program at the end of the term. Something you will appreciate as you take upper level maths is equation derivation. Makes accounting/finance easier to understand.

[adehbone]

I'd say that's "decent". Which degrees besides engineering, physics, math, or statistics require more math than that? All he is saying is that you need more math in economics than other "social sciences".

Actually, the poster above me is correct. The non-honours economics at McGill doesn't require any calculus. I think they have separate questions for non-honours economics students. I knew a transfer student who came from McGill and took a few upper level economics courses at UBC and was in for a rude awakening hahaha.

There is a reason its called non-honours. Also a reason no grad school on earth will take that degree seriously.

[nauru]

Okay...

An economics degree without math is somewhat similar to a physics degree without math. There is so much basic stuff in the field that you won't be able to comprehend or do without the math that it is pretty meaningless to give someone either an economics degree or a physics degree without some reasonable level of math background. To not require any math calls into question the quality of all the other courses in the program, since having a class full of people who can't handle a partial derivative would necessitate an aggressive dumbing down, or possibly a complete rewrite of the course material. Does McGill also offer mathless physics degrees and call them "non-honours"?

[eiad77]

There is a reason its called non-honours. Also a reason no grad school on earth will take that degree seriously.

It's not called "non-honours" it's just called economics. I was distinguishing it from "honours economics".