ESL Teaching abroad

[Pep]

My son is currently in Grade 10 and is thinking of pursuing a career as an ESL teacher abroad. I would like to get some feedback about this area of study (ie. the process, employment outlook, etc.)

[FrustratedBeanCounter]

I taught English overseas in Taiwan for some time. That's pretty cool that your son is already interested in doing that. Most of the other teachers I knew overseas hadn't decided until either in university or after.

Anyway, as far as credentials go, your son would be best off having a university degree in English followed up by a bachelor of education. So 4 to 5 years of school depending on if its an honours program or not. In addition, if he really wanted to be at the top of the pay scale he could get TEFL certification from Oxford University. Its the worldwide standard for esl courses, and he can take them at certain places in Canada. Not too cheap though.

As far as where to go, if he went to the middle east he could make anywhere from $40k to $100k. A lot of those countries are tax free or very low compared to Canada. If he went to Asia, the salaries are often much less, but so is the standard of living. I rented a 5 bedroom apartment with 3 other people for $80 a month each in Taiwan, and it was huge.

One other suggestion, since he's still in high school, maybe you could convince him to choose a country and to start learning that language as part of his high school curriculum. Learning Mandarin became a priority when I first moved, I was lucky that I picked up the basics pretty quick. I knew a lot of people that couldn't say a word of the local languages and had much harder times getting around in their everyday lives.

Anyway, it sounds great that he knows what he wants to do. Encourage it, moving overseas was the greatest experience of my life so far, definitely don't regret it.

Good luck!

[el_diablo007]

I've been in China for just over 2 years at this point so I'll chime in here. Originally I came to China to teach English so that I could touch up on my Mandarin Chinese to make me more employable back home, but ESL eventually became more of a career path for me, surprisingly. For most people, TESL in China is basically a gap year of sorts - there's really no long term career viability for English teachers in China due to the fact that there is no social security (read: retirement benefits/package) for ex-pats, vague career development opportunities, and work experience that isn't very transferable (as in, a lot of employers back home do not view long term China TESL experience as a good thing). If you want to use TESL in China as a career option, you have to do something else, whether that be starting your own school, getting into management, obtaining more specialized training (TOEFL/IELTS), or even performing (singing, dancing, acting, voice acting, etc.), and etc.

The teaching jobs in China are plentiful; market demand still far outstrips supply. Living-teaching conditions/process vary greatly between employers. If you happen to get a bad school, it can totally ruin your experience and you'll never want to come back. If on the other hand, you've found a good employer who is reasonable, sticks to the contract, then you'll probably have a good time teaching in China. Teach for a year or two, find your footing quickly, and if you decide that TESL abroad is the way to go, work your way into something else. My advice is to use teaching abroad as a stepping stone for another education based career. TESL alone is not (IMHO) a career choice in and of itself.

[Aznsilvrboy]

I taught English overseas in Taiwan for some time. That's pretty cool that your son is already interested in doing that. Most of the other teachers I knew overseas hadn't decided until either in university or after.

Anyway, as far as credentials go, your son would be best off having a university degree in English followed up by a bachelor of education. So 4 to 5 years of school depending on if its an honours program or not. In addition, if he really wanted to be at the top of the pay scale he could get TEFL certification from Oxford University. Its the worldwide standard for esl courses, and he can take them at certain places in Canada. Not too cheap though.

As far as where to go, if he went to the middle east he could make anywhere from $40k to $100k. A lot of those countries are tax free or very low compared to Canada. If he went to Asia, the salaries are often much less, but so is the standard of living. I rented a 5 bedroom apartment with 3 other people for $80 a month each in Taiwan, and it was huge.

One other suggestion, since he's still in high school, maybe you could convince him to choose a country and to start learning that language as part of his high school curriculum. Learning Mandarin became a priority when I first moved, I was lucky that I picked up the basics pretty quick. I knew a lot of people that couldn't say a word of the local languages and had much harder times getting around in their everyday lives.

Anyway, it sounds great that he knows what he wants to do. Encourage it, moving overseas was the greatest experience of my life so far, definitely don't regret it.

Good luck!

Where did you teach in Taiwan and how much was the pay?

[FrustratedBeanCounter]

I taught in a town called Chiayi and in Kaohsiung. Typical salaries were $600 NT per teaching hour, or if you were on salary it was $60,000 a month for roughly 20-25 hours a week plus those stupid office hours.

[FrustratedBeanCounter]

I've been in China for just over 2 years at this point so I'll chime in here. Originally I came to China to teach English so that I could touch up on my Mandarin Chinese to make me more employable back home, but ESL eventually became more of a career path for me, surprisingly. For most people, TESL in China is basically a gap year of sorts - there's really no long term career viability for English teachers in China due to the fact that there is no social security (read: retirement benefits/package) for ex-pats, vague career development opportunities, and work experience that isn't very transferable (as in, a lot of employers back home do not view long term China TESL experience as a good thing). If you want to use TESL in China as a career option, you have to do something else, whether that be starting your own school, getting into management, obtaining more specialized training (TOEFL/IELTS), or even performing (singing, dancing, acting, voice acting, etc.), and etc.

The teaching jobs in China are plentiful; market demand still far outstrips supply. Living-teaching conditions/process vary greatly between employers. If you happen to get a bad school, it can totally ruin your experience and you'll never want to come back. If on the other hand, you've found a good employer who is reasonable, sticks to the contract, then you'll probably have a good time teaching in China. Teach for a year or two, find your footing quickly, and if you decide that TESL abroad is the way to go, work your way into something else. My advice is to use teaching abroad as a stepping stone for another education based career. TESL alone is not (IMHO) a career choice in and of itself.

I agree with everything except your last two sentences. I know several people that taught ESL their entire career, its a perfectly fine career choice. The stipulation was that they either had proper education (a Bach of Ed usually) so they worked at proper private schools where they paid benefits, or they worked and married into the local population. I also know a person that's working in the MidEast making amazing money (over $80k a year nearly tax free as he's no longer a Canadian resident). Making that much, he doesn't need to have a pension as he can make his own with some good smarts.

Perhaps you meant you couldn't do it in China, and that may be true. But even there, I'm sure they have high priced private schools that hire foreign teachers that get paid big bucks. I know that the vast majority of ESL jobs in china rarely paid more than $1000 CD a month, in which case, yea, I wouldn't want that as a career either. My 2 cents.

[Aznsilvrboy]

I taught in a town called Chiayi and in Kaohsiung. Typical salaries were $600 NT per teaching hour, or if you were on salary it was $60,000 a month for roughly 20-25 hours a week plus those stupid office hours.

Considering how you were able to rent for so cheap and $600 NT/hr or $60,000/month is pretty decent, you must have been able to save a lot of that income, arguably no less than if you worked a $40k salary job in Canada. How long did you stay there, how did you like it and why did you leave in the end?

[divx]

It's a lot nicer to teach to people who actually wanted to learn instead to people who are stuck there, you get to enjoy the former if you teach in China.

[kmarcie]

Considering how you were able to rent for so cheap and $600 NT/hr or $60,000/month is pretty decent, you must have been able to save a lot of that income, arguably no less than if you worked a $40k salary job in Canada. How long did you stay there, how did you like it and why did you leave in the end?

I haven't personally taught overseas myself, but from talking with multiple people who have taken this route, I actually find that they aren't able to save up. In this case he's able to rent a place for cheap and save a large portion of what he earns, but even taking that into consideration the amount he is able to save up is still not much compared to the relatively higher pay here.

He's only renting a room there for $80 CDN. If he were renting a room here it might be a few hundred bucks, but his salary might be $3500 here.

He's still eventually going to have to take that chunk of money and return here.

[Pep]

Thank you everyone for your insight and sharing your experience. My niece is an ESL teacher. She has taught in Korea, Japan and Hong Kong. She's currently working in France. She loves what she does so I guess my son wants to follow in her footsteps.

[Aznsilvrboy]

I haven't personally taught overseas myself, but from talking with multiple people who have taken this route, I actually find that they aren't able to save up. In this case he's able to rent a place for cheap and save a large portion of what he earns, but even taking that into consideration the amount he is able to save up is still not much compared to the relatively higher pay here.

He's only renting a room there for $80 CDN. If he were renting a room here it might be a few hundred bucks, but his salary might be $3500 here.

He's still eventually going to have to take that chunk of money and return here.

With higher taxes here, $3500 salary ends up being $2700 or so per month, minus the few hundred bucks in rent and cost of every day life items, I would think it's about the same. I know some schools also offer rent subsidies, so you can really save a lot if you teach ESL in places with higher pay like Taiwan, South Korea and Hong Kong.

[FrustratedBeanCounter]

Most people in Taiwan that were making $60k nt a month were able to put $30k nt in the bank easily. That equates to roughly $12k CD a year saved, after taxes. I'm not sure how much most people here would have to earn hourly in order to save that much a year but I bet it is upwards of $40,000, once you take into consideration a bachelor lifestyle and Canada's huge income tax. I can't remember the exact rules but I know most people paid under 10% tax a year legitimately. A lot of the foreign teachers that I knew didn't go home 'rich' though because traveling can become quite addictive over there.

If anyone has anymore specific questions you can just pm me as the original poster is finished. Thanks.

Oh and the big cost, $1000 to $1200 flights each way across the pacific can add up unless your willing to stay there.

[eudaii]

no offense but teaching abroad should not be a career aspiration. it could be something that your son does for 1-2 years after graduating from university, but making a career out of it is not a good decision. tell him to major in something that will get him a decent job in canada... all you need for teaching abroad is any university degree, so it doesn't have to be english. just my opinion don't mean to be offensive, but i would never advise anyone to aspire to be an ESL teacher abroad. it seems to be more of an 'adventure' type thing rather than a career.

[divx]

no offense but teaching abroad should not be a career aspiration. it could be something that your son does for 1-2 years after graduating from university, but making a career out of it is not a good decision. tell him to major in something that will get him a decent job in canada... all you need for teaching abroad is any university degree, so it doesn't have to be english. just my opinion don't mean to be offensive, but i would never advise anyone to aspire to be an ESL teacher abroad. it seems to be more of an 'adventure' type thing rather than a career.

I understand what you are saying, but you might want to elaborate to the masses here.

[eudaii]

I understand what you are saying, but you might want to elaborate to the masses here.

the bulk of people who teach english abroad are of this variety:
they graduate from university with a BA, don't know what to do with their lives, apply to teach english abroad, so they can help those poor little foreigners and in the process "find themselves". they teach during the daytime, drink and sing karaoke at night, post pics of their cute little asian students on facebook, come back to canada, and find themselves unemployed.

i'm obviously exaggerating but you get the picture. your ultimate goal should be to become employable in canada... with teaching abroad being secondary, like an afterthought. of course i'm saying this with the assumption that your son doesn't plan on living in asia forever.

[el_diablo007]

From what I hear about the middle east, it's a bit of a unique place. Salaries are high, requirements are high, and the cost of living is high but beyond that I don't know much, so I can't really comment.

It's true my opinions are solely based around TESL in China, and I'm referring specifically to teachers who only have an undergraduate degree + TEFL/TESL certification who make up the vast majority of the foreign teaching population here in China. If you are a certified and experienced teacher who can work in Canada but chooses to go abroad, then I do take back my comments about teaching not being a career. If you are certified you can work for an international school who will give you the full employment package, but in that case, you're not teaching ESL; in an international school, you'd be teaching subjects.

[kmarcie]

With higher taxes here, $3500 salary ends up being $2700 or so per month, minus the few hundred bucks in rent and cost of every day life items, I would think it's about the same. I know some schools also offer rent subsidies, so you can really save a lot if you teach ESL in places with higher pay like Taiwan, South Korea and Hong Kong.

Even taking into consideration of the rent, I still think an average individual can save up more than $1000 of the $2700. Keep in mind the $80 CDN rent was for a room only.

And like the other poster has said, the people who teach abroad eventually spend it all on doing local traveling or just eating out, and in the end you end up saving nearly nothing of your earnings. Most people I knew came back with no savings whatsoever.

That being said, one could argue that that chunk of money spent on traveling and eating is money well spent.

This is why the teaching abroad thing can only be done when you are fresh out of university. Any later than that and you would waste quite a few years not accumulating any savings or assets.

[Pep]

Yes, I agree that the travelling abroad is an incentive for some new grads hoping to spread their wings and do some travelling before they settle down. I spoke to my son today to try to learn more about what his plans are and he is attracted to the travel part but he said sooner or later he'll have to settle down and will most likely return to Canada. That is why he wants to do an undergraduate degree and then enroll in teacher's college and then teach abroad and do some travelling while he's young and able. As a mother, I worry about his future because he's so far away but if this is what he wants I have to support his decision.

As I said, my niece taught in Hong Kong and rent was pretty much covered by the school so that's pretty good. Food is cheap in HK so you can save money.

[kmarcie]

Yes, I agree that the travelling abroad is an incentive for some new grads hoping to spread their wings and do some travelling before they settle down. I spoke to my son today to try to learn more about what his plans are and he is attracted to the travel part but he said sooner or later he'll have to settle down and will most likely return to Canada. That is why he wants to do an undergraduate degree and then enroll in teacher's college and then teach abroad and do some travelling while he's young and able. As a mother, I worry about his future because he's so far away but if this is what he wants I have to support his decision.

As I said, my niece taught in Hong Kong and rent was pretty much covered by the school so that's pretty good. Food is cheap in HK so you can save money.

Depending on what organization you work for, a few of my friends who taught abroad did not go to teacher's college. If your son doesn't want to be a teacher as a career he can skip that part.

[divx]

Depending on what organization you work for, a few of my friends who taught abroad did not go to teacher's college. If your son doesn't want to be a teacher as a career he can skip that part.

Wait, you can be a teacher without proper papers? Any joe blow can do it? Does that mean I can be a Chinese teacher here?

[FrustratedBeanCounter]

no offense but teaching abroad should not be a career aspiration. it could be something that your son does for 1-2 years after graduating from university, but making a career out of it is not a good decision. tell him to major in something that will get him a decent job in canada... all you need for teaching abroad is any university degree, so it doesn't have to be english. just my opinion don't mean to be offensive, but i would never advise anyone to aspire to be an ESL teacher abroad. it seems to be more of an 'adventure' type thing rather than a career.

I'd love for my friend that currently lives in the middle east to see this post. He's been teaching abroad for 10 years and currently makes $80k nearly tax free and plans on doing similar jobs the rest of his life until retirement. He also has a proper Bach of Ed. and TEFL certs. I know several people who have made careers out of teaching abroad. Sure a good 60-80% of them are just there for a few years, but they know that going into it. I also wouldn't call those short stints a 'career aspiration.' If a kid in grade 10 is already looking forward to working overseas as a teacher do you really think he would just do it for one year as a fluke?

[Pep]

I am glad my son is covering his bases by going to teacher's college. The main draw of teaching abroad is the adventure of a foreign land and who knows he may really like it there and want to settle down but that's his choice. He won't know until he's tried it out. He always has the option of coming back to teach in Canada. On his list of places to teach are: Korea, Japan and Hong Kong. I am originally from Hong Kong so this is an added incentive for me to go back to my homeland one of these day.

[imingwan]

If you haven't already, read through this thread. There are likely others as well if you search.

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/teaching-abroad-english-1032549/

[jewville]

unless your son has a natural instinct for business and would like to start his own english teaching firm then forget about it.. its not a career, just a way to spend some time

[jewville]

the only good english teaching jobs are in the oil rich states of the gulf but its highly competitive