Leave $54k full-time for $70k one year contract - Chartered Accountant [Archive]

Szyzzlin

Mar 15th, 2012, 11:44 PM

lornegershman

Mar 15th, 2012, 11:59 PM

Do it

hybridfx2

Mar 16th, 2012, 12:18 AM

If you were a basketball player, would you even question leaving the Raptors to go play for the Lakers?

LaserEnvy

Mar 16th, 2012, 12:35 AM

One year is plenty of time. It should be more than enough to prove your value to the company so that they extend your contract or hire you. It is also plenty of time to network should you not get an extension. Too much trust is often placed on full time job security anyways. You could be let go in one years time. Who knows.

packardbell

Mar 16th, 2012, 12:40 AM

jump ship bro.

nyik

Mar 16th, 2012, 12:50 AM

Is it just for the $?
Are the responsibilities different? In what way? More/less? Title change?
Are you able to negotiate with your current employer to match your prospective employer?

chedo009

Mar 16th, 2012, 01:17 AM

I'm a CA that works in a small firm for $54k and I've been offered a job to work for a big public company for 12 months for $68-72k. What are your thoughts on the risks of leaving a stable job for a contract position? I'm pretty sure I'm going to take it because it looks so good.

I've listed the following:

Pros
-Higher pay
-Better opportunities for advancement in the future.
-Looks good on resume
-If I am good... I will likely have first dibs on any positions that open up in the future for the company
-Interesting new experience

Cons
-No job in 12 months
-Might not like the job (... I'd consider this a low risk as the position looks good)
-Have to work harder than usual to try to impress ;)

Unless a VP Finance position looks promising for you in that small firm, there is very little advantage for you to remain in your current position at 55K$/year as you are severely underpaid for a CA accountant working in Vancouver of all places.I can tell you from experience as I'm now concluding my 3rd contractual mandate in a row with pay around 55K$/year as a financial accounting analyst without any designation at all in Montreal, with much lower cost of living than in Vancouver.Now working for a big public company compared to a small firm implies much more specialized work, demands more flexibility, adaptation to a impersonal corporate culture, which might be more difficult for some.I agree with the items you listed except that, in order to avoid wrong expectations, you should inquire what are the realistic chances of permanency.Never forget that you are considered first and foremost a temp employee , and as such you would have the LAST dibs on any positions that open up in the future for the company even if you are good as permanent employees do take precedence.Also, I do not believe that you will stay w/o a job for very long after the mandate which may come to term before 12 months are due if things do not work out for some reason.Finally, as a temp employee you will have to work LESS harder than a new permenent hire would to impress as there are much less expectations set on a temp employee.

hash76

Mar 16th, 2012, 01:24 AM

Totally Absolutely take the job. Just do it.

ukilledanoob

Mar 16th, 2012, 01:29 AM

jump ship but look for a new job while your on contract!

tylaw83

Mar 16th, 2012, 01:30 AM

Unless a VP Finance position looks promising for you in that small firm, there is very little advantage for you to remain in your current position at 55K$/year as you are severely underpaid for a CA accountant working in Vancouver of all places.I can tell you from experience as I'm now concluding my 3rd contractual mandate in a row with pay around 55K$/year as a financial accounting analyst without any designation at all in Montreal, with much lower cost of living than in Vancouver.Now working for a big public company compared to a small firm implies much more specialized work, demands more flexibility, adaptation to a impersonal corporate culture, which might be more difficult for some.I agree with the items you listed except that, in order to avoid wrong expectations, you should inquire what are the realistic chances of permanency.Never forget that you are considered first and foremost a temp employee , and as such you would have the LAST dibs on any positions that open up in the future for the company even if you are good as permanent employees do take precedence.Also, I do not believe that you will stay w/o a job for very long after the mandate which may come to term before 12 months are due if things do not work out for some reason.Finally, as a temp employee you will have to work LESS harder than a new permenent hire would to impress as there are much less expectations set on a temp employee.

This isn't how the real world works and your incorrect approach why you are still on contract.

-You are given EQUAL opportunity to impress people and network your way into a better position. If the manager of your department has the capacity and budget and he wants you, HR will not say no.
-As a temp employee, you should be working HARDER than everyone else to demonstrate your abilities to get that permanent position.

OP, go for it. If you were leaving an 80k job for a 15k bump, you might want to hesitate and consider it carefully. For a 54k job though, it's a no brainer. It wouldn't be hard for you to go back to a similar salary if things don't work out.

komal

Mar 16th, 2012, 01:48 AM

Why are you at the small public practice firm?
Do you like public practice?
Do you want to make partner?

If you don't want to make partner, then don't stay. You might have better options if you stay til manager, but don't sit at a company you're unhappy with.

eudaii

Mar 16th, 2012, 02:18 AM

first of all, congrats. what a wonderful opportunity

Szyzzlin

Mar 16th, 2012, 03:32 AM

If you were a basketball player, would you even question leaving the Raptors to go play for the Lakers?
haha.... good point.

One year is plenty of time. It should be more than enough to prove your value to the company so that they extend your contract or hire you. It is also plenty of time to network should you not get an extension. Too much trust is often placed on full time job security anyways. You could be let go in one years time. Who knows.
True... I guess there really isn't anything called job security these days anyways..

Is it just for the $?
Are the responsibilities different? In what way? More/less? Title change?
Are you able to negotiate with your current employer to match your prospective employer?

New responsibilties and better aligned with my skillset. The title change isn't going to be anything impressive.. because I'll be on a low rung of a huge company.
Current employer won't be able to afford me at the going rate.

-You are given EQUAL opportunity to impress people and network your way into a better position. If the manager of your department has the capacity and budget and he wants you, HR will not say no.
-As a temp employee, you should be working HARDER than everyone else to demonstrate your abilities to get that permanent position.

That's what I thought??? You should be bustin your ***** trying to showcase your abilities so the next time a full-time position comes up you'll be the next likely candidate. If you're outperforming everybody there... I doubt they'd just wave goodbye after 12 months??

Why are you at the small public practice firm?
Do you like public practice?
Do you want to make partner?

If you don't want to make partner, then don't stay. You might have better options if you stay til manager, but don't sit at a company you're unhappy with.

Nope.. not trying to make partner. Just trying to advance my career and gain valuable experience.

hvc

Mar 16th, 2012, 08:35 AM

Do you want to do public accounting? If you do, then I'm not sure industry is the best decision. Otherwise, I would take the position without hesitation.

You're designated, and you make $54k/year? That must be an absolute tiny firm..? I would take the $15k jump, work your ***** off, and unless you're covering mat leave you'll be offered something afterwards.

Kohanz

Mar 16th, 2012, 12:28 PM

Unless a VP Finance position looks promising for you in that small firm, there is very little advantage for you to remain in your current position at 55K$/year as you are severely underpaid for a CA accountant working in Vancouver of all places.I can tell you from experience as I'm now concluding my 3rd contractual mandate in a row with pay around 55K$/year as a financial accounting analyst without any designation at all in Montreal, with much lower cost of living than in Vancouver.Now working for a big public company compared to a small firm implies much more specialized work, demands more flexibility, adaptation to a impersonal corporate culture, which might be more difficult for some.I agree with the items you listed except that, in order to avoid wrong expectations, you should inquire what are the realistic chances of permanency.Never forget that you are considered first and foremost a temp employee , and as such you would have the LAST dibs on any positions that open up in the future for the company even if you are good as permanent employees do take precedence.Also, I do not believe that you will stay w/o a job for very long after the mandate which may come to term before 12 months are due if things do not work out for some reason.Finally, as a temp employee you will have to work LESS harder than a new permenent hire would to impress as there are much less expectations set on a temp employee.

If you're implying that salaries should be higher in Vancouver because cost of living is higher, it unfortunately doesn't work that way. Vancouver is an extremely desirable place to live. So desirable that people here are willing to pay high living costs and work for lower salaries. In general, a position in Vancouver will pay 15 to 20% (just ball-parking) less than it would in Toronto. What's more, you'll make less in Vancouver than you would in smaller cities with much lower costs of living (e.g. London, Ontario).

JuanExprales

Mar 16th, 2012, 12:45 PM

Even if you're newly qualified 54k is a bit low. If your current firm doesn't pay that well either they don't think much of you (never make partner) or they underpay everyone and it's not a place to stay.

One thing to keep in mind is that even if you want to move back into public practice in the future, firms love someone who's worked in industry, especially at big companies. You'll be bringing in different experience and industry contacts.

The contract is only one year but as a young designated CA you'll have no trouble finding employment. In a year if the economy has gone down the crapper you might not find your dream job but you'll have no trouble finding something in public practice or another contract position (you may have to take a bit of a pay cut though).

chedo009

Mar 16th, 2012, 01:32 PM

If you're implying that salaries should be higher in Vancouver because cost of living is higher, it unfortunately doesn't work that way. Vancouver is an extremely desirable place to live. So desirable that people here are willing to pay high living costs and work for lower salaries. In general, a position in Vancouver will pay 15 to 20% (just ball-parking) less than it would in Toronto. What's more, you'll make less in Vancouver than you would in smaller cities with much lower costs of living (e.g. London, Ontario).

It seems to me that idea of Vancouver as an extremely desirable place to live is only a sad West-coast fad (except maybe for canadians from Asian descent or Asian immigrants looking to settle among their own culture), similar in a way to Seattle accross the border like an overpriced Stabucks caffe-latte, with an inflated & overrated home-market bubble ready to burst.

"Vancouver crime among worst in North America":
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/12/16/bc-progress-board-report-crime-poverty.html

chedo009

Mar 16th, 2012, 01:45 PM

This isn't how the real world works and your incorrect approach why you are still on contract.

-You are given EQUAL opportunity to impress people and network your way into a better position. If the manager of your department has the capacity and budget and he wants you, HR will not say no.
-As a temp employee, you should be working HARDER than everyone else to demonstrate your abilities to get that permanent position.

OP, go for it. If you were leaving an 80k job for a 15k bump, you might want to hesitate and consider it carefully. For a 54k job though, it's a no brainer. It wouldn't be hard for you to go back to a similar salary if things don't work out.

"This isn't how the real world works.." , please give me a break and stop preaching the politically correct BS intended for the ignorant and tell OP what you REALLY mean.

You are given EQUAL opportunity to impress people (IF YOU SUCK-UP TO THEM) and network (i.e KISS A**) your way into a better position. If the manager of your department has the capacity and budget and he wants you, HR will not say no.

-As a temp employee, you should be working HARDER (i.e SUCKING-UP & KISSING A**) than everyone else to demonstrate your (i.e SUCKING-UP & KISSING A**) abilities to get that permanent position.

Also, you should know that being on contract is my personal choice as it gives me more flexibility and no obligations to stay if I do not like the job or the firm. I have already declined permanent offers on 2 previous occasions just so that I can land on EI for my own personal benefit & to have more time to look for something better.

Kohanz

Mar 16th, 2012, 02:01 PM

It seems to me that idea of Vancouver as an extremely desirable place to live is only a sad West-coast fad (except maybe for canadians from Asian descent or Asian immigrants looking to settle among their own culture), similar in a way to Seattle accross the border like an overpriced Stabucks caffe-latte, with an inflated & overrated home-market bubble ready to burst.

"Vancouver crime among worst in North America":
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/12/16/bc-progress-board-report-crime-poverty.html

It's not a fad, it's a fact. I'm not some big Vancouver fanboy, but how else can you explain the combination of low salaries and high living expenses? It can only be explained by a high demand to live here.

Vancouver doesn't have a lot of jobs/industry (for a city of its size), the jobs it does have don't pay as well as other cities, the cost of real estate is out of this world, yet people flock here in droves. Must be a fad...

Also, to say it is a West coast thing is ridiculous. I'm from Ontario originally and since I moved here last year, almost everyone I know (outside of work) also moved here from somewhere else. Most from Ontario, others from around the world. People move here from Ontario looking for a different lifestyle. Typically, when you hear of people moving back, it's because of financial reasons (can't afford it out here, can't find steady job, etc.).

JuanExprales

Mar 16th, 2012, 02:30 PM

tylaw83

Mar 16th, 2012, 02:41 PM

"This isn't how the real world works.." , please give me a break and stop preaching the politically correct BS intended for the ignorant and tell OP what you REALLY mean.

You are given EQUAL opportunity to impress people (IF YOU SUCK-UP TO THEM) and network (i.e KISS A**) your way into a better position. If the manager of your department has the capacity and budget and he wants you, HR will not say no.

-As a temp employee, you should be working HARDER (i.e SUCKING-UP & KISSING A**) than everyone else to demonstrate your (i.e SUCKING-UP & KISSING A**) abilities to get that permanent position.

Also, you should know that being on contract is my personal choice as it gives me more flexibility and no obligations to stay if I do not like the job or the firm. I have already declined permanent offers on 2 previous occasions just so that I can land on EI for my own personal benefit & to have more time to look for something better.

You basically just agreed with me and refuted your earlier post in a more crude fashion...

You strike me as a very confused individual.
-If you do a good enough job, word gets out and you won't need to "look" for your next job. People will come to you. Nobody builds a strong career temping.
-The article you post on Vancouver - did you even read it? Property crime? Is that really even a big concern aside from a small hassle to claim insurance? Vancouver's personal safety ranking is on par with Toronto, Calgary, Montreal, and Ottawa and is ranked MUCH higher in terms of quality of living even taking into account the low salaries. Wake up.

chedo009

Mar 16th, 2012, 04:17 PM

You basically just agreed with me and refuted your earlier post in a more crude fashion...

You strike me as a very confused individual.
-If you do a good enough job, word gets out and you won't need to "look" for your next job. People will come to you. Nobody builds a strong career temping.
-The article you post on Vancouver - did you even read it? Property crime? Is that really even a big concern aside from a small hassle to claim insurance? Vancouver's personal safety ranking is on par with Toronto, Calgary, Montreal, and Ottawa and is ranked MUCH higher in terms of quality of living even taking into account the low salaries. Wake up.

Yeah and you strike me as a very illusioned individual preaching fantasy BS. Now let's stop the name calling which btw you first started and let's start thinking about about the weekend.

keano

Mar 16th, 2012, 04:55 PM

Id jump.

it seems to me you have maxed out your growth in earning, learning, and advancement within the company. You are movIng to a contract, but you will learn and move quick upwards. Lots of cas I know went te contract route and are now controllers way before they even hit 30 in industry. You can always go back to public too if you want because they love people who work in big industry companies. My relative took the same path you would be taking and still wound up as a partner at a good sized firm...so even if you change your mind and wanna try to make partner it's still doable

El-Cheapo88

Mar 16th, 2012, 09:41 PM

if you're hard working, willing to do lots of OT, going above and beyond then jump ship.

Personally, I took a contract job at KP and I wouldn't do it again as they worked my ***** off. It's contract, as soon as I was done something, I would have some other crap to do. It was relentless

rdtx2002

Mar 16th, 2012, 11:10 PM

if you are single and can incorporate.. do it.

if you have a family.. then think about it.

54k Salary = to about 70ish contract anyways.. judging from adding 16k based on benefits, vacation and perks that full time offers vs none for contract offers.

lornegershman

Mar 17th, 2012, 02:27 AM

noreason

Mar 17th, 2012, 03:18 AM

Employee benefits can range quite a bit from 15% to 35% or more depending on how rich the benefits are...

It's easy to see that 54k = approx $26/hr

As a contractor you typically don't receive vacation... 3 weeks (3k or so)
Usually no stat holidays either... 10 days per year (2k or so)
Sick days? That's more $
Extended Health (probably a couple thousand a month)
BC MSP - usually paid by employers but if you're single that's $768 a year.

Retirement plans? Matching RRSP contributions?

There's also employer CPP/EI contributions that a contractor would need to fully pay themselves.

This is all assuming that this is a true contractor position and not a contract employee position.

Anyways, sounds like a good opportunity OP if it meets your current life goals. Best of luck.

Coke355mL

Mar 17th, 2012, 11:57 AM

Am I missing something here? If you were offered the job, I'm assuming you applied for it (either on your own or through a recruiter) and got the offer, so didn't you WANT it in the first place and still do if it has gotten this far? Or was an 'opportunity' presented to you?

Otherwise like everyone else said, this is a no brainer. At 54k, it's a 30% salaray jump and you get a big name firm under your belt. This would pave the way for a better career.

Let's look at it on the other side. If you stayed at your firm, you would be crawling your way for the next +/- FIVE years just to make an equivalent salary. And by the time that happens, you'll want to be looking for a job and be in the SAME situation 12 months from today if you took that contract job! Imagine the earning potential you have by taking the contract position now.

The only other consideration like another poster said is that you need to compare apple to apple so yes, the benefits are not included in the new role but that's something you can sacrifice for now, because you're young and you have a great opportunity.

Also the debate about the real world, it happens both ways... It depends on the manager and the position in question. Sometimes, not the best person gets promoted either because of the relationship the manager has with another person or because the manager wants you to stay in your current position because you're good at what you do. The reality is, there's lots of bad managers out there. Sometimes it could also be because you're the best at what you do but you don't know how to play the office politics to get your name out there. Or it could be different interests in the manager (i.e. They promote those who can talk and look like a leader rather than a smart, hard worker). Conversely, there are good managers out there who recognize talent and strength and will promote fairly.

Terrific_Deals2k8

Mar 19th, 2012, 03:59 AM

Take the offer, congrats btw!

rdtx2002

Mar 20th, 2012, 03:11 PM

^Can someone please tell me how you can allocate that 16k towards benefits. I'm sorry but I can't see him getting 16k in benefits even from a 100k job. Except maybe a company car, of which you'll pay 1/3rd of that back in taxes anyhow.

-Health Benefits (STD, LTD, Life Insurance, Accidental Death Benefits, Extended Health)
-Dental Benefits
-Vacations
-Sick Days
-Recreation Days
-Public Holidays
-Perks
-RRSP Matching
-CPP
-EI
-RRSP Plans
-Retirement Plans
-Services like Morneau Sheppell

all these add up to quite an amount.

tylaw83

Mar 20th, 2012, 05:33 PM

-Health Benefits (STD, LTD, Life Insurance, Accidental Death Benefits, Extended Health)
-Dental Benefits
-Vacations
-Sick Days
-Recreation Days
-Public Holidays
-Perks
-RRSP Matching
-CPP
-EI
-RRSP Plans
-Retirement Plans
-Services like Morneau Sheppell

all these add up to quite an amount.

Given that this is a salaried temp contract and not paid hourly, I doubt many of these apply...most likely just no long-term benefits like rrsp and extended health.

keano

Mar 20th, 2012, 06:01 PM

-Health Benefits (STD, LTD, Life Insurance, Accidental Death Benefits, Extended Health)
-Dental Benefits
-Vacations
-Sick Days
-Recreation Days
-Public Holidays
-Perks
-RRSP Matching
-CPP
-EI
-RRSP Plans
-Retirement Plans
-Services like Morneau Sheppell

all these add up to quite an amount.

Yea if he's salaried temp contract under the company he would only see:

- Vacation - likely 3 weeks up front and not accrued
- Sick (maybe)
- Holidays
- Sheppell FGI

Thats really it. Only way they would see the whole list you described is if they are in government and if the position is not a mat leave replacement

rdtx2002

Mar 21st, 2012, 11:23 AM

it's just an assumption that he will get no benefits based on previous replies to what I commented on.

floppy

Mar 29th, 2012, 12:42 AM

I will consider the non monetary benefits as well before taking a new job.

The commute
The people at work
Good places to eat during lunch time
The satisfaction you get everytime you finish your work
The views from your work area especially if you are a guy

But most importantly, what is more important to you.

Making less money but dont mind going to work or take on more pressure/work/stress and be better compensated for it.
I'm assuming you like your current job otherwise it's not hard choosing the new job.

RastaManMax

Mar 30th, 2012, 02:20 PM

I'd take it if you think it's going to add to your skill set and where you want to go in the future. That being said some CA's that I know went for money early and ended up shooting themselves in the foot.

Ie. they left right away for 20%+ more when they were in their promotion year. Literally 6 months later, they were paid the same as somebody still in public practice that got promoted but working less (so it seemed like a good decision at the time). A year later these people left for 30%+ more and entered industry at a level above those that left earlier and a lot of those people a few years later still haven't got promoted.

Personally I wanted out ASAP because I didn't want to do tax/accounting in general. Just make sure you know what you want to do before jumping ship.