What % of students get 4.0 at University of Toronto?

[avmans]

% people who get 4.0:
% people who get between 3.7-3.9:

Just curious...what do you think?

[jjrousseau]

% people who get 4.0:
% people who get between 3.7-3.9:

Just curious...what do you think?

depends on the major.

U of T is hard for life sciences and engineering. Arts/humanities at the undergrad level is the same as at any other Canadian university.

So I'm sure a lot of arts/humanities students get above 3.7. Engineering/life sci... probably close to none.

[andyyuen]

probably not students whom are answering your question on this forum LOL, since they have no time to chat

i was at UT life science(UTSC). it was brutal. First year biology we had almost 2000 students in the pavilion.
second year, about 300people left in biology
third year.. about 100..
fourth year.. about 20 in a room haha

by year 4, i think there are probably 1/4 that are still getting 4.0

[avmans]

lol Good point + that's insane. Any idea what it's like in computer science and math?

[JuliTheNub]

probably not students whom are answering your question on this forum LOL, since they have no time to chat
The first 7 credits I received at U of T Mississauga were 4.0s. That was in first year + summer school.
The combo breaker was a philosophy course that had a ridiculously pointless final exam.

Students who are smart, diligent and a little lucky would probably get 4.0s in their first year. I know quite a few. Among my friend list, I'd say 10% had 3.7 GPA and above in their first year.

I don't think anybody can graduate with a perfect 4.0 though. U of T courses aren't all "easy". Some are just bloody insane.

[avmans]

The first 7 credits I received at U of T Mississauga were 4.0s. That was in first year + summer school.
The combo breaker was a philosophy course that had a ridiculously pointless final exam.

Students who are smart, diligent and a little lucky would probably get 4.0s in their first year. I know quite a few. Among my friend list, I'd say 10% had 3.7 GPA and above in their first year.

I don't think anybody can graduate with a perfect 4.0 though. U of T courses aren't all "easy". Some are just bloody insane.

Maybe it's just an illusion but for a few courses in UoT, I feel like it's impossible to really study it enough to feel confident for the tests, so I don't bother studying hardcore for them. I could see someone taking all memorization (no writing) psych/sociology courses and getting 4.0s though.

[JuliTheNub]

Maybe it's just an illusion but for a few courses in UoT, I feel like it's impossible to really study it enough to feel confident for the tests, so I don't bother studying hardcore for them. I could see someone taking all memorization (no writing) psych/sociology courses and getting 4.0s though.
well, that's why I said there's a luck factor. some professors might just wanna screw with you and put obscure topics in the psych/soc tests and finals. if that happens, it's near impossible to get a 4.0. it's happened to me and some of my friends

[chinesedevil]

Depends on year. Probably like 10-15% get 3.7-4.0 in first/2nd year. 3rd year a tad bit higher maybe around 20%. 4th year are mostly students who are specialized so a lot either know what they are doing or work hard to get good grades so the averages are higher too.

[Sammmy]

Some quotes I read from an article a while back:

"Two-thirds of UTSC students report receving average grades of B- and lower. At similar schools (the survey grouped UTSC with Carleton and Ryerson), only 55 per cent of students get such marks. And only four per cent of UTSC students get mostly A’s and A+’s, compared to 10 per cent elsewhere."

"For Rob Wulkan, the VP academics at SCSU, the lower marks come as no surprise.

Over the years there has been a gradual grade inflation at other institutions,” he said. “But at UTSC we have the same grade scheme.” Twenty per cent of marks at UTSC fall in the A range.

As a result, SCSU is lobbying U of T administrators to overhaul its grading scheme, hoping to upgrade their academic showing.

“It’s not that UTSC students are dumber than students at other universities-professors are grading harder,” said Wulkan. “A B+ from UTSC is actually a good mark.”

[Syne]

The first 7 credits I received at U of T Mississauga were 4.0s. That was in first year + summer school.
The combo breaker was a philosophy course that had a ridiculously pointless final exam.

What were your first 7 credits?

[JuliTheNub]

What were your first 7 credits?
First year philosophy, first and 2nd year maths (102,137,etc), first and 2nd year economics

math and economics are a lot easier for getting 4.0s imo because the questions and answers are objective and there are no essays

[Bskll]

afaik, out of a first year life sci class of 2k, there are maybe 100-150 people with 4.0 gpa.

engineering, even less.

other subjects don't know anything about.

[mickey12]

depends on the major.

U of T is hard for life sciences and engineering. Arts/humanities at the undergrad level is the same as at any other Canadian university.

So I'm sure a lot of arts/humanities students get above 3.7. Engineering/life sci... probably close to none.


U of T is not hard. First year courses ARE all high school review (except for calculus depending on much of it you learned...) I did Life Science before I switched to Chemical Engineering all at U of T. My high school average was only an 83% from an average Ontario high school (so no gifted or IB or AP or whatever stuff like that) and I constantly stayed at an A average for all my courses at U of T. Everyone complains about U of T being so hard when it really isn't; its like all other universities. From my experience, the ones who complained about the difficulty of achieving high marks were the ones who either constantly get 90+ average in high school easily or from people who don't actually enjoy their program and are doing it for post-graduate opportunities or medicine, law, etc...

To the OP, don't ask how many students get 4.0 GPA at U of T, don't even bother cause it only shows that you want the marks but not the opportunity to learn and study in something you would enjoy. People like that will fail or receive low marks and claim that its the end of the world because of U of T, when it was really their fault.

[avmans]

U of T is not hard. First year courses ARE all high school review (except for calculus depending on much of it you learned...) I did Life Science before I switched to Chemical Engineering all at U of T. My high school average was only an 83% from an average Ontario high school (so no gifted or IB or AP or whatever stuff like that) and I constantly stayed at an A average for all my courses at U of T. Everyone complains about U of T being so hard when it really isn't; its like all other universities. From my experience, the ones who complained about the difficulty of achieving high marks were the ones who either constantly get 90+ average in high school easily or from people who don't actually enjoy their program and are doing it for post-graduate opportunities or medicine, law, etc...

To the OP, don't ask how many students get 4.0 GPA at U of T, don't even bother cause it only shows that you want the marks but not the opportunity to learn and study in something you would enjoy. People like that will fail or receive low marks and claim that its the end of the world because of U of T, when it was really their fault.

This is a good point lol although I do love learning.. but I also do take school as seriously as working and think of GPA as my performance.

[Coz4k]

3.95 here


umad ?

(not joking)

[Syne]

3.95 here


umad ?

(not joking)


I wasn't going to be mad because I thought you were joking, but now that you confirmed that you're not in fact joking, heck yes, I'm mad as hell!

[Coz4k]

I wasn't going to be mad because I thought you were joking, but now that you confirmed that you're not in fact joking, heck yes, I'm mad as hell!

GOOD ! :lol:

Are we talking about the average on 4.33 here ? A+ being 4.33


I study in QC, dont know if we are talking about the same thing.
If yes we are indeed talking about the same thing.

[chinesedevil]

UofT is on a scale of 4.0 lol.

[Coz4k]

UofT is on a scale of 4.0 lol.

so to have an average of 4.0 you need to get A+ everywhere...

Suuure.

[mickey12]

so to have an average of 4.0 you need to get A+ everywhere...

Suuure.

That depends what you mean by A+ because at U of T, an A+ is anything above an 85%

[Coz4k]

That depends what you mean by A+ because at U of T, an A+ is anything above an 85%

Ah.

Here (Qc)
A- is between 80-84.99
A is between 85-89.99
A+ is 90-100

[chinesedevil]

That depends what you mean by A+ because at U of T, an A+ is anything above an 85%

4.0 is A and A+ at UofT.

A being 85-89.99.
A+ being 90+.

Professional schools like Med and Law use A as a 3.9 but both A and A+ are still 4.0's.

So straight A's is sufficient to get a 4.0 at UT.

[fuzzy_avocado]

depends on the major.

U of T is hard for life sciences and engineering. Arts/humanities at the undergrad level is the same as at any other Canadian university.

So I'm sure a lot of arts/humanities students get above 3.7. Engineering/life sci... probably close to none.

Unless you've gone to other schools doing the same artsci program, you're the typical life sci/eng kid who complains and assumes artsci kids got it easy.

[mickey12]

4.0 is A and A+ at UofT.

A being 85-89.99.
A+ being 90+.

Professional schools like Med and Law use A as a 3.9 but both A and A+ are still 4.0's.

So straight A's is sufficient to get a 4.0 at UT.

Yeah you are right, but using GPA here really provides no indication of the distinction between an A or A+ student. You add the fact that you MUST get an 85% or higher in all your courses to have a 4.0 GPA. I remember reading something like that on studentawards where they talked about a student with 85% in all their courses getting a 4.0 GPA, but another student who got 100% in all their courses but one where they got an 84%; this means that their GPA is lower then 4.0 but does that mean that ain't A+ material?

[JuliTheNub]

Yeah you are right, but using GPA here really provides no indication of the distinction between an A or A+ student. You add the fact that you MUST get an 85% or higher in all your courses to have a 4.0 GPA. I remember reading something like that on studentawards where they talked about a student with 85% in all their courses getting a 4.0 GPA, but another student who got 100% in all their courses but one where they got an 84%; this means that their GPA is lower then 4.0 but does that mean that ain't A+ material?
i don't know about other departments but the math department gave me a congratulatory letter and a spot on their honors roll website for getting 90+ in 3 math courses in first year.

so getting 90+ does have its separate set of rewards

[xlc_88]

To OP: If you're not willing to study your *** off, then you'll probably not get that 4.0. There's no point asking people if you're not willing to work hard. UofT doesn't give out A's easily.

To other posters: I do think UofT does make a distinction for people that get 4.0s. For example, for the Governor General Silver Medal, UofT has to select top three students across all the campuses. I'm sure there are a few 4.0s across all the campuses so they'll have to look at % next to determine the winners.

[chinesedevil]

i don't know about other departments but the math department gave me a congratulatory letter and a spot on their honors roll website for getting 90+ in 3 math courses in first year.

so getting 90+ does have its separate set of rewards

Which campus is this?

[mickey12]

i don't know about other departments but the math department gave me a congratulatory letter and a spot on their honors roll website for getting 90+ in 3 math courses in first year.

so getting 90+ does have its separate set of rewards

oh wow, never knew that happens

[IMWHFMPC]

UTSC here... honestly I have tried in a few courses where I really like it and I put 100% my effort and study every detail of it. But at the end, I never get over 80%.... (doing environmental science) I asked my friends, majority are 70s, a few 60s, 1 or 2 got 80s and 90s. So... I think I just suck. No matter how much effort I put in, i never score high! damn it

[chinesedevil]

UTSC here... honestly I have tried in a few courses where I really like it and I put 100% my effort and study every detail of it. But at the end, I never get over 80%.... (doing environmental science) I asked my friends, majority are 70s, a few 60s, 1 or 2 got 80s and 90s. So... I think I just suck. No matter how much effort I put in, i never score high! damn it

Find past assignments/exams to succeed.

[mickey12]

chinesedevil is right, find past exams/assignments because it will give you a sense of how the professor tests their students, on what and how they also mark the questions. I've heard the same story from my friends who go to Ryerson, York, University of Ottawa and MacMaster. No matter, how much you study, it might not do you any good if your professor does a complete 180 on you.

[avmans]

UTSC here... honestly I have tried in a few courses where I really like it and I put 100% my effort and study every detail of it. But at the end, I never get over 80%.... (doing environmental science) I asked my friends, majority are 70s, a few 60s, 1 or 2 got 80s and 90s. So... I think I just suck. No matter how much effort I put in, i never score high! damn it

I find that hard to believe that you give 100% effort and don't get over 80%. Do you do all of the following?

1. Take notes in class
2. Read the powerpoint slides ahead of time
3. Read the required readings ahead of time
4. Go to office hours when you don't get some concepts
5. Go to other help aid centres
6. Ask upper years for help
7. Do all the past exams/midterms
8. Rewrite all of the notes of everything that could be in the test/midterms from memory+ then going over what you missed.
9. Make practice tests for yourself
etc. etc.

I don't always do all of the following but I do when I struggle...People don't know what it means to say you give 100%, even doing all of the above isn't giving 50% of what's possible. I know upper year math student who studies 20 hours a day and sleeps the rest of 4 hours

[jjrousseau]

Unless you've gone to other schools doing the same artsci program, you're the typical life sci/eng kid who complains and assumes artsci kids got it easy.

Lol. I'm actually an arts student. I'm definitely not saying that artsci kids have it easy, I was just making the point that the arts/humanities courses at U of T are not harder than they are at other Canadian universities. U of T students like to think its sooo much harder at U of T than anywhere else. Its really not.

[xlc_88]

UTSC here... honestly I have tried in a few courses where I really like it and I put 100% my effort and study every detail of it. But at the end, I never get over 80%.... (doing environmental science) I asked my friends, majority are 70s, a few 60s, 1 or 2 got 80s and 90s. So... I think I just suck. No matter how much effort I put in, i never score high! damn it

You have to study smart. Focus on what the prof has covered in class. Talk to past students and definitely try to get past exams/assignments.

It's unusual that you've never gotten anything higher than 80 as a lot of my friends have taken enviro courses to boost up their GPAs (myself included).

[JuliTheNub]

UTSC here... honestly I have tried in a few courses where I really like it and I put 100% my effort and study every detail of it. But at the end, I never get over 80%.... (doing environmental science) I asked my friends, majority are 70s, a few 60s, 1 or 2 got 80s and 90s. So... I think I just suck. No matter how much effort I put in, i never score high! damn it
Study hard. Not study smart. Then add a dash of luck.

Do past year exams/tests.
The prof might put up suggested questions or study guidelines or practice tests/exams. Use those.
Study with someone smarter. Learn from the best.


Which campus is this?
If my location isn't already a dead give-away... =P I'm at U of T Mississauga

[chinesedevil]

If my location isn't already a dead give-away... =P I'm at U of T Mississauga

Might be a UTM thing. No such thing at UTSC unfortunately lol

[Syne]

My study strategy depends on the course.

Right now I'm taking 4 courses, two of which I didn't even buy the textbook for. The courses I didn't buy the text for, I record the lectures, study the slides and supplement with online/wiki reading. The 3rd class the prof. sells a lecture manual for $50 which is basically his lecture notes, so I don't even go to that class. I just read the notes and write the exam. The last course is online but it is probably the hardest because you have to write a paper every other week and the tests are intensive.

Overall, I study smart, not hard. I cram like a pro. I stick around 3.2 (which translates to ~75 average) at Western.

[aTriangle]

Lol. I'm actually an arts student. I'm definitely not saying that artsci kids have it easy, I was just making the point that the arts/humanities courses at U of T are not harder than they are at other Canadian universities. U of T students like to think its sooo much harder at U of T than anywhere else. Its really not.

I was a philosophy student at UTSC (humanities) and I've talked to a number of the faulty and phd candidates that have attended and taught at non-UofT and UofT schools in philosophy, and everyone agrees that UofT is a notch higher compared to other Canadian universities (excluding Ivy). I'm not sure if this would be the case in other departments in the humanities. I've even been told that if I were to pursue a phd in philosophy, I should only consider UofT or UBC, because a phd in philosophy at any other Canadian university would be very difficult to secure a job because their philosophy departments are all very weak on an international stage.

So, UofT humanities (at least in philosophy) is harder than other Canadian universities.

[jjrousseau]

I was a philosophy student at UTSC (humanities) and I've talked to a number of the faulty and phd candidates that have attended and taught at non-UofT and UofT schools in philosophy, and everyone agrees that UofT is a notch higher compared to other Canadian universities (excluding Ivy). I'm not sure if this would be the case in other departments in the humanities. I've even been told that if I were to pursue a phd in philosophy, I should only consider UofT or UBC, because a phd in philosophy at any other Canadian university would be very difficult to secure a job because their philosophy departments are all very weak on an international stage.

So, UofT humanities (at least in philosophy) is harder than other Canadian universities.

I guess its impossible to generalize across all departments. I know nothing about the U of T philosophy department, so I can't comment on that. However, in my experience (went to U of T and then York later) arts/humanities was the same stuff. I would say definitely that the focuses were different, theoretically/politically speaking. But in terms of workload, difficulty, etc., it was the same.

And I'm also just talking about the undergrad level. Undergrad education is the same at any university in Canada (at least in arts/humanities).

And do you mean that philosophy departments besides U of T and UBC are weak on an international stage in the sense that they aren't renowned internationally?

[aTriangle]

I guess its impossible to generalize across all departments. I know nothing about the U of T philosophy department, so I can't comment on that. However, in my experience (went to U of T and then York later) arts/humanities was the same stuff. I would say definitely that the focuses were different, theoretically/politically speaking. But in terms of workload, difficulty, etc., it was the same.

And I'm also just talking about the undergrad level. Undergrad education is the same at any university in Canada (at least in arts/humanities).

And do you mean that philosophy departments besides U of T and UBC are weak on an international stage in the sense that they aren't renowned internationally?

Cool. I'm just the regurgitating what I've been told, so I'm not sure if these claims are true of they have been exaggerated. However, to address the point you made about workload, difficult, etc., one of my professors says the standard is just higher at UofT after having taught elsewhere. For example, the workload for the same class, etc., might be the same at different schools, but the student output is a standard higher - in other words, UofT students produce better work. This difference in level of difficulty is apparent at the undergraduate level: a phd candidate told me that an A in an upper level philosophy course at UofT looks better relative to an A in the same upper level course somewhere else to phd programs. Graduate programs 'know' which is the taught school.

For philosophy, UofT ranks top 20 in the world and UBC is somewhere far down the list. Places like York, Ryerson, Waterloo, etc. aren't even listed. Another of my professors (from Stanford and Princeton) says that in philosophy, phd graduates find jobs at schools with lesser reputations. For example, he came from Princeton, so he moves down to Toronto. In his opinion, a phd graduate from McMaster has nowhere to move down to because he was trained by a lower level faculty.

[Mykester]

My study strategy depends on the course.

Right now I'm taking 4 courses, two of which I didn't even buy the textbook for. The courses I didn't buy the text for, I record the lectures, study the slides and supplement with online/wiki reading. The 3rd class the prof. sells a lecture manual for $50 which is basically his lecture notes, so I don't even go to that class. I just read the notes and write the exam. The last course is online but it is probably the hardest because you have to write a paper every other week and the tests are intensive.

Overall, I study smart, not hard. I cram like a pro. I stick around 3.2 (which translates to ~75 average) at Western.

3.2 won't get you into any grad school.

[xlc_88]

3.2 won't get you into any grad school.

Grades are not everything especially if you are applying to a research based program.

[orangealphabet]

While UofT is difficult, they have many resources that you are entitled to use as an undergrad student. I've been to the Academic Success Centre (which offers many good workshops for you to improve your studying skills), attended a notetaking workshop (which has helped me IMMENSELY... writing key terms in different colours has definitely helped me process what the professor is saying while I'm writing it down, for instance), gone to Writing Centres and the like. Also, it's always a good idea to go to your prof's office hours. They often give you tips for an assignment, even if you haven't started on it. I had a really nice chat with my prof about one of my upcoming essays and we tossed some ideas back and forth. All these resources are designed to help you! A lot of students don't take advantage of them, which is a shame. I've had really good grades at UofT, while still having the time for extra-curriculars, going to the gym, and socializing and meeting new people.


depends on the major.

U of T is hard for life sciences and engineering. Arts/humanities at the undergrad level is the same as at any other Canadian university.

So I'm sure a lot of arts/humanities students get above 3.7. Engineering/life sci... probably close to none.

I was in engineering in first year. Had a pretty good cGPA (3.95).
Switched to Arts and Science in second year, majoring in physics. Still kept a pretty good GPA :P.
Then I switched to Arts; I'm in English now. I actually find my marks are lower now because few English professors will give higher than a 85 or 90 on papers, and it's also harder to do well on papers than problem sets. But I'm happier with what I'm studying.
I guess my point is, don't assume that arts and humanities are necessarily easier? I think it's harder to do well in the arts because the marking is, because of the nature of the courses, a bit more subjective. Anyway, a lot of students engineering and life science students receive good grades as well. I keep in touch with a lot of friends from engineering and physics and I know a lot of them who have 3.5's+, if not higher.

[flamez1000]

I was in engineering in first year. Had a pretty good cGPA (3.95).
Switched to Arts and Science in second year, majoring in physics. Still kept a pretty good GPA :P.
Then I switched to Arts; I'm in English now. I actually find my marks are lower now because few English professors will give higher than a 85 or 90 on papers, and it's also harder to do well on papers than problem sets. But I'm happier with what I'm studying.
I guess my point is, don't assume that arts and humanities are necessarily easier? I think it's harder to do well in the arts because the marking is, because of the nature of the courses, a bit more subjective. Anyway, a lot of students engineering and life science students receive good grades as well. I keep in touch with a lot of friends from engineering and physics and I know a lot of them who have 3.5's+, if not higher.


Why would you switch out of engineering with a 3.95 GPA?? Especially to something like English...

[jjrousseau]

I was in engineering in first year. Had a pretty good cGPA (3.95).
Switched to Arts and Science in second year, majoring in physics. Still kept a pretty good GPA :P.
Then I switched to Arts; I'm in English now. I actually find my marks are lower now because few English professors will give higher than a 85 or 90 on papers, and it's also harder to do well on papers than problem sets. But I'm happier with what I'm studying.
I guess my point is, don't assume that arts and humanities are necessarily easier? I think it's harder to do well in the arts because the marking is, because of the nature of the courses, a bit more subjective. Anyway, a lot of students engineering and life science students receive good grades as well. I keep in touch with a lot of friends from engineering and physics and I know a lot of them who have 3.5's+, if not higher.


That's definitely true. Its impossible to get over a 90 in the arts. But I guess my point was that its easier to do well (e.g. 80%) in the arts than it is in engineering.

P.S. I've never been in Engineering, so I am just reiterating what I have heard from others. Are you telling me that U of T Engineering is actually quite easy? I know U of T students like to exaggerate about how hard it is there (no offense if you're from U of T), but my impression was that Engineering truly was difficult.

[antibasher]

I was in engineering in first year. Had a pretty good cGPA (3.95).
Switched to Arts and Science in second year, majoring in physics. Still kept a pretty good GPA :P.
Then I switched to Arts; I'm in English now. I actually find my marks are lower now because few English professors will give higher than a 85 or 90 on papers, and it's also harder to do well on papers than problem sets. But I'm happier with what I'm studying.
I guess my point is, don't assume that arts and humanities are necessarily easier? I think it's harder to do well in the arts because the marking is, because of the nature of the courses, a bit more subjective. Anyway, a lot of students engineering and life science students receive good grades as well. I keep in touch with a lot of friends from engineering and physics and I know a lot of them who have 3.5's+, if not higher.

For such a high calibre engineer, don't you find it odd to switch out a program while getting such good grades? A smart fellow like an engineer should also know the value of engineering degrees and science compare to arts in today's job market. Also are you rich and have a lot of time in your hands that you can jump to different programs year after year? Most people I know want to finish with school asap and get a job.

[Audience]

For such a high calibre engineer, don't you find it odd to switch out a program while getting such good grades? A smart fellow like an engineer should also know the value of engineering degrees and science compare to arts in today's job market. Also are you rich and have a lot of time in your hands that you can jump to different programs year after year? Most people I know want to finish with school asap and get a job.

University is not about "getting a job"

[antibasher]

University is not about "getting a job"

Unfortunately too many people think that way too.

[xlc_88]

University is not about "getting a job"

Wow. Thank you so much for that insight! :facepalm: Tell that to all the (baby boomer) parents that are enrolling their kids into University these days.

[deals881]

University is not about "getting a job"

What is university about?

Without OSAP, parents easily pay $20000 per year for tuition and room and board for each kid. That's a whooping $80000 for a 4 year program if the kid is responsible enough to complete it.

[JK400]

While UofT is difficult, they have many resources that you are entitled to use as an undergrad student. I've been to the Academic Success Centre (which offers many good workshops for you to improve your studying skills), attended a notetaking workshop (which has helped me IMMENSELY... writing key terms in different colours has definitely helped me process what the professor is saying while I'm writing it down, for instance), gone to Writing Centres and the like. Also, it's always a good idea to go to your prof's office hours. They often give you tips for an assignment, even if you haven't started on it. I had a really nice chat with my prof about one of my upcoming essays and we tossed some ideas back and forth. All these resources are designed to help you! A lot of students don't take advantage of them, which is a shame. I've had really good grades at UofT, while still having the time for extra-curriculars, going to the gym, and socializing and meeting new people.



I was in engineering in first year. Had a pretty good cGPA (3.95).
Switched to Arts and Science in second year, majoring in physics. Still kept a pretty good GPA :P.
Then I switched to Arts; I'm in English now. I actually find my marks are lower now because few English professors will give higher than a 85 or 90 on papers, and it's also harder to do well on papers than problem sets. But I'm happier with what I'm studying.
I guess my point is, don't assume that arts and humanities are necessarily easier? I think it's harder to do well in the arts because the marking is, because of the nature of the courses, a bit more subjective. Anyway, a lot of students engineering and life science students receive good grades as well. I keep in touch with a lot of friends from engineering and physics and I know a lot of them who have 3.5's+, if not higher.

I've been through the UofT engineering system and I can say without a doubt a GPA like that would put you easily into the top 5 ranking in the program if not #1. Clearly you are well above average and shouldn't be taken as a typical case.

[Experimentalist]

I was in physics at UofT and finished with a 3.5 cGPA which is among the highest in the department. There was not a single physics major with a solid 4.0 while I was there and sh*t got pretty serious after third year.

[orangealphabet]

P.S. I've never been in Engineering, so I am just reiterating what I have heard from others. Are you telling me that U of T Engineering is actually quite easy? I know U of T students like to exaggerate about how hard it is there (no offense if you're from U of T), but my impression was that Engineering truly was difficult.

No, engineering was difficult for me (despite the fact that I had a good GPA) because of the incredibly involved/full schedules engineers have (25+ hours a week most of the time). I think Arts and Science courses are difficult in another way though, and some engineers overlook that. In some English classes, for instance, the readings are crazy.


For such a high calibre engineer, don't you find it odd to switch out a program while getting such good grades? A smart fellow like an engineer should also know the value of engineering degrees and science compare to arts in today's job market. Also are you rich and have a lot of time in your hands that you can jump to different programs year after year? Most people I know want to finish with school asap and get a job.

Nah. To be honest, there were a lot of personal considerations that influenced my decision. I felt really depressed in engineering and couldn't see myself finishing all 4 years of the program. I also didn't find myself identifying as an engineer, and couldn't see myself doing engineering work in the future. Also, I knew I wanted to explore more of my interests in literature and language, and I wouldn't have had the chance to do that in engineering because of the rigid schedule. Also, let me clarify; I still have a physics major and added an English major just afterwards (so double major in physics/English and minor in math). Sure, perhaps the job prospects are lower, but 1) I didn't see myself being in engineering jobs anyway, and 2) a physics/English degree generates a lot of interesting reactions :P.

I am not poor, but I'm also not rich (still getting OSAP). If anything, that the Arts and Science tuition was lower helped me on the financial front (it's like half the engineering tuition). I did do several things to help myself pay off my tuition; I did work-study in my second year, and held jobs in the summers and another job in 4th year, and commute to school from home. Also, I didn't actually spend any more time than your average student. I actually am poised to finish my degree in my 4th year of university despite having transferred from engineering.


I've been through the UofT engineering system and I can say without a doubt a GPA like that would put you easily into the top 5 ranking in the program if not #1. Clearly you are well above average and shouldn't be taken as a typical case.

While it's true I probably shouldn't be taken as a typical case, what I wanted to get across was that UofT has a lot of resources that helped me improve my GPA (note taking workshops from the Academic Success Centre, office hours, etc.) but that a lot of people don't use and are not aware of. Anyway, it seems to me that a lot of people's GPAs increase as they go through University, probably as they develop better studying skills/listening skills (for listening to lectures)/writing skills/test-taking skills or whatever. So I don't think UofT always has to be the GPA sinkhole some rumours claim it is... there's a lot people can do to improve their studying and whatnot. Iunno.

[mickey12]

I was in physics at UofT and finished with a 3.5 cGPA which is among the highest in the department. There was not a single physics major with a solid 4.0 while I was there and sh*t got pretty serious after third year.

Don't know what you're talking about but I have friends now in astrophysics with over a 3.7 cGPA. My girlfriend seems poised to graduate with a 4.0 cGPA in the physics/math program. To state that no one in the physics program got a 4.0 GPA would mean that you interviewed EVERY physics major at U of T and then came to that conclusion which is doubtful.

[JuliTheNub]

Don't know what you're talking about but I have friends now in astrophysics with over a 3.7 cGPA. My girlfriend seems poised to graduate with a 4.0 cGPA in the physics/math program. To state that no one in the physics program got a 4.0 GPA would mean that you interviewed EVERY physics major at U of T and then came to that conclusion which is doubtful.
****. graduate with a 4.0? and she has enough of a life to get a bf? nice
i had a lucky 4.0 cGPA first year and trying in vain to maintain it in 2nd year destroyed my social life... =(

[mickey12]

****. graduate with a 4.0? and she has enough of a life to get a bf? nice
i had a lucky 4.0 cGPA first year and trying in vain to maintain it in 2nd year destroyed my social life... =(

Haha, I know how you feel, while kind of....(still have a social life, I'm just slacking off now). She enjoys physics and she studies smart. Basically she studies the concepts that she's learned and attempts to make up her own questions while also relating what she has learned in one course to her other ones. Its amazing what happens when you see just how everything that you're learning fits together, even in courses that you thought had no relevance with others. Me and her were pretty average during high school (I did better in biology and chemistry, while she got the physics and our math was pretty much even).

[ever1221]

I love how some are having engineering same level as life sciences...you sure don't know wth you're talking about. I don't know a single life science student lower than 3.8, and at the same time I don't know a single engineering student with a gpa of 3.7.

[ever1221]

I was in engineering in first year. Had a pretty good cGPA (3.95).
Switched to Arts and Science in second year, majoring in physics. Still kept a pretty good GPA :P.
Then I switched to Arts; I'm in English now. I actually find my marks are lower now because few English professors will give higher than a 85 or 90 on papers, and it's also harder to do well on papers than problem sets. But I'm happier with what I'm studying.
I guess my point is, don't assume that arts and humanities are necessarily easier? I think it's harder to do well in the arts because the marking is, because of the nature of the courses, a bit more subjective. Anyway, a lot of students engineering and life science students receive good grades as well. I keep in touch with a lot of friends from engineering and physics and I know a lot of them who have 3.5's+, if not higher.

troll alert.

you are either lying, or went to university of zimbabwe.

[mickey12]

I love how some are having engineering same level as life sciences...you sure don't know wth you're talking about. I don't know a single life science student lower than 3.8, and at the same time I don't know a single engineering student with a gpa of 3.7.

Well now you know one engineer (chemical) with a cgpa of 3.9, haha

[Bskll]

Well now you know one engineer (chemical) with a cgpa of 3.9, haha

show me an Eng Sci with 3.9 and we'll talk.

[clwrry]

I'm a third year at U of T (it's April so I'm almost done my third year), and I can honestly tell you getting a 4.0 in all four years is next to impossible. If you are in physics/math/engineering, you can pretty much kiss your 4.0 goodbye. Even if you are very smart and works very hard, getting a 4.0 in U of T is going to be very very difficult, and depends A LOT on luck. For those of you who claim to have 4.0s in U of T, if they are real (which I highly doubt, especially if you are in the three majors I listed), congrats on being the top 1% of the u of T population. I don't know how you did it, but I'm sure you worked very hard for it.

PS, the reason a 4.0 is hard in UT is this: while most classes are normal (~65-75% averages), every once in a while, you will encounter a lethal class where the prof gives you impossible tests and the class average becomes 35%. On tests like these, it's not about how much you studied what was taught in the course, it's about how lucky you are in ACCIDENTLY writing down something on the test paper that the prof was looking for. I emphasize on ACCIDENTLY because the test can not be done with only knowledge from that course, which is why the low average. Therefore, while there are people who get like 60s on those tests (which means they would get like 80-90 after the bellcurve), they are likely to be the very lucky few who either have knew how to do the question from previous experience (like from another course or some unique life experience), or are just plain very very lucky. Everyone else would get about 60% after bellcurve, and your 4.0 is gone. Point is, you can't be lucky for every single lethal course that you encounter, and I'll guarantee you that you will encounter at least 3 or more of these courses in your entire U of T career. Therefore, a 4.0 is nearly impossible. This is the way for sciences/engineering/commerce, not sure for humanities.

[Metagame]

Don't know what you're talking about but I have friends now in astrophysics with over a 3.7 cGPA. My girlfriend seems poised to graduate with a 4.0 cGPA in the physics/math program. To state that no one in the physics program got a 4.0 GPA would mean that you interviewed EVERY physics major at U of T and then came to that conclusion which is doubtful.

Pics of transcript with core math and physics specialist courses or GTFO. There are some with high 3.7+ but they worked their schedule without ever taking the quantum mechanics courses and no other math other than PDE. If your GF is a true 4.0, then she would have transferred to somewhere like Caltech or MIT. There are so few physics majors compared to other faculties, so everyone essentially knows each other and who has the highest GPA.

BRB imaginary girlfriend with a 4.0 in PHY356, PHY354, PHY350, MAT327, MAT347, MAT354, MAT357 and still has a life to be in a relationship with OP.

[ever1221]

Well now you know one engineer (chemical) with a cgpa of 3.9, haha

whats even more ironic is that you think chem eng is engineering...most engineers dont consider it an engineering program.

[BananaHunter]

% people who get 4.0:
% people who get between 3.7-3.9:

Just curious...what do you think?

There are certainly people who get 4.0 in a few courses. But if you get below 4.0 in just a few courses, that already ruins your average. CGPA of 4.0 feels almost impossible at UofT. You're bound to run into one of those "I'm a prick and will give you low marks" professors in your 4 years. I don't think studying a ton guarantees anything. I've had a professor who gave everyone between 70-85. No one can get higher.

[mickey12]

show me an Eng Sci with 3.9 and we'll talk.

Engineering Science students come on down!

[acdree]

I'm a third year at U of T (it's April so I'm almost done my third year), and I can honestly tell you getting a 4.0 in all four years is next to impossible. If you are in physics/math/engineering, you can pretty much kiss your 4.0 goodbye. Even if you are very smart and works very hard, getting a 4.0 in U of T is going to be very very difficult, and depends A LOT on luck. For those of you who claim to have 4.0s in U of T, if they are real (which I highly doubt, especially if you are in the three majors I listed), congrats on being the top 1% of the u of T population. I don't know how you did it, but I'm sure you worked very hard for it.

PS, the reason a 4.0 is hard in UT is this: while most classes are normal (~65-75% averages), every once in a while, you will encounter a lethal class where the prof gives you impossible tests and the class average becomes 35%. On tests like these, it's not about how much you studied what was taught in the course, it's about how lucky you are in ACCIDENTLY writing down something on the test paper that the prof was looking for. I emphasize on ACCIDENTLY because the test can not be done with only knowledge from that course, which is why the low average. Therefore, while there are people who get like 60s on those tests (which means they would get like 80-90 after the bellcurve), they are likely to be the very lucky few who either have knew how to do the question from previous experience (like from another course or some unique life experience), or are just plain very very lucky. Everyone else would get about 60% after bellcurve, and your 4.0 is gone. Point is, you can't be lucky for every single lethal course that you encounter, and I'll guarantee you that you will encounter at least 3 or more of these courses in your entire U of T career. Therefore, a 4.0 is nearly impossible. This is the way for sciences/engineering/commerce, not sure for humanities.

While I am not at the University of Toronto, I can kind of agree with clwrry's statement on certain b****y classes. This happens at all universities; crappy professor (amazes me how they got their tenure!), tests that seemed to have no relevance to anything that was taught, etc.... but that's not to say that it ain't likely someone will score high because I am sure it happens. P.S. why isn't chemical engineering considered an engineering discipline and who the hell told you that? (not you clwrry, just another comment here I read)

[imflying12]

Arts is considered a joke at Uoft. So if you want a high gpa, switch into arts.