Canadians Flocking to US Airports for Cheap Fares

[webworm]

This is no suprise to most of us looking for a deal as Canadians continue to head for US airports in search of cheap fares. This was all over the news today.
http://www.ctv.ca/generic/generated/static/business/article2375888.html

[matdwyer]

No surprises here - If the market talks enough, maybe some discount providers will service here too.

The only flights in the past 5 years I've taken from Toronto was to Cuba. Anything else it makes so much sense to drive to Buffalo (a trip I took last week we drove to Washington to fly, albeit we had something to do there too)

You end up paying with your time - to drive 4 hours (or even 1.5 hours) is a fair amount of time (and hassel for a family), but when the savings amount to hundreds or even thousands then it is a no brainer to me.

The key is you fly from smaller airports, serviced by charter & discount carriers. Of course a direct air situation could happen, but its risky business haha.

[mr_toast]

I've always flown out of BUF on Jetblue. The few times I flew out of YYZ was either for family trips (when we didn't know flying out of BUF was cheaper), or when scheduling was extremely tight.

On the odd occasion I've considered flying out of YYZ, but what kills the fare is the outbound tax (which amounts to a few hundred dollars in some cases). The inbound is always reasonably priced - a few dollars more pricier than flying into BUF to get back to Canada (eg. recently AC had a 50% off sale. BOS-YYZ was $77, and with tax it came to about $100 - JetBlue BOS-BUF was at about $70+$15 tax, plus a one-way Greyhound ticket at $14 pegged the total flight at $99).

[MVP1]

Out West lots of people fly out from Bellingham and even Seattle, you save so much compared to YVR.

[peano]

The fact that YYZ is probably the worst run airport in the free world has a lot to do with it I am sure. The GTAA screws the airlines with exorbitant fees and then screws up everything from customs to ground transportation to parking. It is a disaster.

Combine that with the terrible design of terminal one - get off the plane, walk and walk and walk. Then go up stairs, then down stairs, then up stairs, then down stairs etc, etc. Then go outside for a taxi and none are there. 400 of them are sitting in a parking lot waiting but the idiots at GTAA can't seem to organize anything.

[Kaz]

We will be going to Cancun in May and were very surprised to find the best deal was out of Vancouver. $480 return.


We usually fly airmiles from where we are into either Vancouver or Seattle. We're a 12 hour drive from Vancouver. :(
We generally fly Seattle -> wherever -> Vancouver as this seems to work out pretty well.

[bilingualmk]

It is so true. For any flight to/within the US I won't even search what the price from YYZ is.

As a general rule, I have found that flights:

to Asia are usually cheaper out of YYZ.
to Europe and Africa are usually cheaper out of BUF (except Air Transat fares). The hassle to fly to Europe out of BUF usually negates the savings as there will always be a stopover (EWR, ATL, IAD, JFK)
to the US are always cheaper out of BUF/IAG.
to chartered sun destinations are usually cheaper out of YYZ (plus they are direct. Most flights down south from BUF on AA have a stopover in MIA)

The benefits that I have found from flying out of YYZ is that generally there are fewer stopovers. But, yes, the whole walking a km from your arrival gate to customs in YYZ is completely nonsensical. This isn't Bangkok (one terminal airport).

Parking at YYZ is ridiculous compared to the US border airports.

[fountainpen]

It is so true. For any flight to/within the US I won't even search what the price from YYZ is.

As a general rule, I have found that flights:

to Asia are usually cheaper out of YYZ.
to Europe and Africa are usually cheaper out of BUF (except Air Transat fares). The hassle to fly to Europe out of BUF usually negates the savings as there will always be a stopover (EWR, ATL, IAD, JFK)
to the US are always cheaper out of BUF/IAG.
to chartered sun destinations are usually cheaper out of YYZ (plus they are direct. Most flights down south from BUF on AA have a stopover in MIA)

The benefits that I have found from flying out of YYZ is that generally there are fewer stopovers. But, yes, the whole walking a km from your arrival gate to customs in YYZ is completely nonsensical. This isn't Bangkok (one terminal airport).

Parking at YYZ is ridiculous compared to the US border airports.

But both IAD and bangkok airport have toilet attendants looking for a tip

[wesleyw]

If you're flying to somewhere in the US and you're flying with at least 1 other person, usually it makes more sense to drive to Buffalo (or even border cities like Vancouver to Bellingham or Montreal to Plattsburgh). Only downside is that some flights you will fly direct from YYZ/YVR/YUL but will have to connect when you make the drive.

Alot of people argue over the driving time/hassle to get across the border, as well as parking. But really, the hassle you deal with at the border is negated by often short lines at security in the US airports. You might have to drive an hour or so longer each way to get to the US airports, but majority of the time you end up saving $100 or more per person on the flight.

[IceBlueShoes]

The fact that YYZ is probably the worst run airport in the free world has a lot to do with it I am sure. The GTAA screws the airlines with exorbitant fees and then screws up everything from customs to ground transportation to parking. It is a disaster.

Combine that with the terrible design of terminal one - get off the plane, walk and walk and walk. Then go up stairs, then down stairs, then up stairs, then down stairs etc, etc. Then go outside for a taxi and none are there. 400 of them are sitting in a parking lot waiting but the idiots at GTAA can't seem to organize anything.
I take it you've never been to Gatwick? It's the same thing. You get off the plane and then walk, walk and walk... follow the herd, walk walk...

It is so true. For any flight to/within the US I won't even search what the price from YYZ is.

As a general rule, I have found that flights:

to Asia are usually cheaper out of YYZ.
to Europe and Africa are usually cheaper out of BUF (except Air Transat fares). The hassle to fly to Europe out of BUF usually negates the savings as there will always be a stopover (EWR, ATL, IAD, JFK)
to the US are always cheaper out of BUF/IAG.
to chartered sun destinations are usually cheaper out of YYZ (plus they are direct. Most flights down south from BUF on AA have a stopover in MIA)

The benefits that I have found from flying out of YYZ is that generally there are fewer stopovers. But, yes, the whole walking a km from your arrival gate to customs in YYZ is completely nonsensical. This isn't Bangkok (one terminal airport).
Parking at YYZ is ridiculous compared to the US border airports.
+1
I've never seen a Europe based flight cheaper out of the US that I felt was worth it. Not saying they don't exist but I've never seen one when I've looked for a trip.
Most I've seen is under $100 difference and after the entire hassle of driving there and back it's totally not worth it.

It's funny how the article makes no mention that it really only applies to US destinations. Makes it seem like it's for everywhere which is totally not the case.

[gilboman]

It is so true. For any flight to/within the US I won't even search what the price from YYZ is.

.

Then you are a doing a big disservice to yourself. price difference is usually in the $100-$200 range per person I find between YYZ and BUF and not that much more here. Flew from BUF once, for a hundred or two, definitively not worth the hassle and extra time. If I'm travelling, what's another $100 or $200 if it saves me hassle?

[bilingualmk]

Then you are a doing a big disservice to yourself. The price difference is usually in the $100-$200 range per person find between YYZ and BUF and not that much more here. Flew from BUF once, for a hundred or two, definitively not worth the hassle and extra time. If I'm travelling, what's another $100 or $200 if it saves me hassle?

Perhaps I should offer a little more clarification. Yes, I obviously look at both prices through Matrix as it only takes a split second to enter in BUF,YYZ. That being said, I live roughly halfway between Toronto and Buffalo, so either way I'll be driving for at least an hour. For someone driving from Toronto I could certainly see that the cost of driving should be taken into account.

For a single traveller $100 is not much, but once you factor in the price of flying a family there can be substantial savings.

[michelb]

It's a shame we get so screwed on airline prices. My in-laws flew to MTL to London, England last year. Taking the same flight but doing NYC-MTL-London was quite a bit cheaper than simply doing MTL-London but airlines won't let you take a connection if you miss the first leg so they couldn't just buy NYC-MTL-London and just use the MTL-London portion.

[FairCall]

While U.S airports might be alot cheaper, I find Canadian airports are simply better. Many American airports lack the capital that Canadian airports have thus are run on a shoestring budget. Compare and contrast YVR to LAX, or Calgary to Phoenix for example.

[DiceMan]

While U.S airports might be alot cheaper, I find Canadian airports are simply better. Many American airports lack the capital that Canadian airports have thus are run on a shoestring budget. Compare and contrast YVR to LAX, or Calgary to Phoenix for example.

I don't think you should be comparing YVR to LAX. Since thread is about alternative airports for OUTGOING flights, a more relevant comparison would be YVR to, say, Bellingham (BLI) airport in Washington 70km away. Cheaper? Faster? Less crowds?

[gilboman]

I don't think you should be comparing YVR to LAX. Since thread is about alternative airports for OUTGOING flights, a more relevant comparison would be YVR to, say, Bellingham (BLI) airport in Washington 70km away. Cheaper? Faster? Less crowds?

how is it faster if you have to drive across the border there? would the smaller airports even have a fraction of the equipment like de-icing bays that the canadian ones have? YYZ has the world's most de-icing bays for example, does Niagara or BUF even have de-icing bays? or do they come by in a truck?

[GangStarr]

This topics been beat to death. If you value time BUF/IAG isn't a good option, if your a group/family that isn't as picky about an extra hour or two the savings can be substantial.

There is a couple of other unmentioned goodies about driving to BUF rather than Toronto.

1. You can shop online and ship stuff to something like mailboxes etc. Handy if your ordering something larger that would cost to put on a plane (skis, bbq).
2. Duty Free at the border is often better than duty free in the US airports. Depends what your after though.
3. You can shop before / after your flight and leave stuff in your trunk.

Flights to Europe and the Caribean are very seldom substantially cheaper out of BUF.

Once and a while those multi head flights pop up, BUF- destination - YYZ. Sucks that you need to bus it or get a ride down, but I've seen some insane fares posted in this manner. Frankly I don't mind the drive to the airport, but if I'm coming home after a long trip, it's nice to fly into YYZ.

As another poster mentioned, you can give credit to YYZ for being a far more technologically advanced airport, snow removal, de-icing. The weather is generally better in Toronto than the Niagara Falls area in the winter time.

[Amanda_A]

I'd rather fly out of YVR to avoid the hassles of timing/border lineups, but the deals out of Bellingham are just too good to warrant it. We've flown Allegiant and Alaska Air out of Bellingham for trips to Vegas, San Diego, San Francisco, Mexico and an upcoming trip to Disneyland. The parking is so much cheaper at the Bellingham Airport than it is at YVR, and although the airport isn't much to look at, the people have always been really friendly and the baggage area (although not glamorous!) is quick and convenient. Plus you don't have to bother with customs stuff at the airport as its already been handled when you cross over the border.

And you can do a Target/Duty Free/outlet mall run after you've landed, with the convenience of having a car instead of trying to bring stuff back on the plane with limited and expensive baggage space!

[l69norm]

From Burlington, I find there isn't much time difference between YYZ and BUF when flying to the US.

For YYZ, I have to leave early anyway to account for QEW traffic, off-site parking shuttle, US customs and security delays and most of my flights from YYZ would hub into Chicago O'Hare-ORD which is notorius for weather delays in the summer.

Using BUF, the pace for me is more relaxed (athough I'm always checking for bridge/ customs delays). I can park right at the BUF airport and pretty much walk right in. My BUF flights mostly hub out of Detroit-DTW where there aren't as many delays and it's nicer than ORD. Also, BUF gets much more snow than YYZ and it's not as busy so the deicing/ snow clearing equipment and delays are probably on par with YYZ.

Coming back, I'm usually later at night so canada customs delays are usually non-existant for both YYZ and BUF, (unless I get stuck behind a big international flight at YYZ)

As a side note, BUF-DTW-US destination is often cheaper than just DTW-US Destination for the same flight.

[DiceMan]

how is it faster if you have to drive across the border there? would the smaller airports even have a fraction of the equipment like de-icing bays that the canadian ones have? YYZ has the world's most de-icing bays for example, does Niagara or BUF even have de-icing bays? or do they come by in a truck?

I don't recall saying that it was. I was saying these are the comparisons (time vs cost vs hassle) you have to make in order to decide for yourself according to what's important to you.

[i6s1]

how is it faster if you have to drive across the border there?

With the cost savings from a single trip, you could justify the $50 price tag of a Nexus pass.

[silicontraveler]

Nice thing about Niagara Fall international is it's $25 a week for parking. Only a few airline fly from there.

[webworm]

Nice thing about Niagara Fall international is it's $25 a week for parking. Only a few airline fly from there.

Ya it was but effective tomorrow it's increasing to $10/day or $50 a week. Still a bargain compared to parking at Pearson.
http://www.niagarafallsairport.com/Canadian.aspx

[bilingualmk]

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/MK-BU839_BORDER_G_20120607180025.jpg

[Pete_Coach]

[IMG]http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/MK-BU839_BORDER_G_20120607180025.jpg[/
While the statistics are revealing many Canadian fly from second tier American airports,....what they do not reveal is the destination of those Canadian travelers.
Most Canadian travelers are going from one province to another or to Europe or Asia, the folks going to the States to fly are generally going to the "sunshine" states.
The statements make is sound like Canadians are using American airports for their travel when in fact it is only (or primarily)to go south, which is really a small portion of Canadian Travel.
Airport traffic in canada is way up too..

[HandsomeRob]

While U.S airports might be alot cheaper, I find Canadian airports are simply better. Many American airports lack the capital that Canadian airports have thus are run on a shoestring budget. Compare and contrast YVR to LAX, or Calgary to Phoenix for example.

YVR is a hole. I work here, in fact I'm here right now, it's a hole.

It might look pretty with waterfalls & fish tanks, but nothing works as it should.
Most of the employees range from not caring to being bitter, from baggage handlers to check-in agents.
Little of the interline IT stuff works properly, the quantity of lost baggage is frightening.
20% of the CATSA staff is at the checkpoint while the other 80% are screening Tim Horton at the food court.
As an employee getting stuck in the elevator has become routine.

I lack the experience at Calgary to judge. I quite agree the front end of US airports like LAX, Kennedy or Phoenix might be pretty ugly. But the back end works well, if that kind of traffic came to YVR the airport would close in an hour. The only Canadian airport that stands comparison to a moderately busy US Airport is Pearson, and even then it cannot be compared to the likes of Hartsfield, Kennedy or any busy Chicago airport.

[IceBlueShoes]

While the statistics are revealing many Canadian fly from second tier American airports,....what they do not reveal is the destination of those Canadian travelers.
Most Canadian travelers are going from one province to another or to Europe or Asia, the folks going to the States to fly are generally going to the "sunshine" states.
The statements make is sound like Canadians are using American airports for their travel when in fact it is only (or primarily)to go south, which is really a small portion of Canadian Travel.
Airport traffic in canada is way up too..

+1.
I for one don't see any value in flying out of Buffalo since I don't do my travelling to the US and there is next to no savings in that case. But can see a family of 4 making the trek though.

[hazelsmrf]

Let's see:

Flight from Montreal to Vegas. About 500$ round trip.
Montreal airport is about 20 minutes from my place with no traffic.
For an 8am flight, I would need to leave at about 5am, because the airport is packed in the morning and it takes forever to clear immigration. So 500$ and a LOT of standing in line at security and immigration. But it's a direct flight.

Flight from Burlington VT to Vegas. About 320$ round trip.
Burlington airport is about 1 hour 45 minutes from my place with no traffic.
For an 8am flight, I would probably be fine leaving at 5am, but instead I would probably just stay at a park and fly hotel the night before and save the parking fee.
No real immigration line, at that hour there's no wait at the border.
No real security line, Burlington airport is tiny and I've never spent more than 15 minutes from check in to gate.
And they have free wi-fi.
The downside is that I have to connect to another flight somewhere.

In the end, even though the airport in Montreal is close, it doesn't really cost me any time to go through Burlington, since I save so much time from their lack of lines. Parking is cheaper too.

[l69norm]

For me , my last US flight from BUF was $290US return vs YYZ at $700. It was about 1hr more from BUF vs YYZ.

From YYZ, most of my Air Canada us bound flights ended up being codeshare with United/Continental connecting via Chicago ORD. If I fly out of BUF, I can connect at DTW, ORD or MSP, so there's no real difference in terms of connections.

I like to avoid connecting YYZ/ORD as much as possible due as summer afternoon storm delays can be pretty bad. Of course, winter weather storm delays for BUF/DTW or BUF/MSP could be a problem

[BigJonsson]

I've flown out of Pearson to Vegas, Cancun, St Maarten for much less than what Buffalo was offering. Some of my friends even flew out of Buffalo/Detroit thinking they had the best deal but I waited an extra week each time and found something cheaper from Toronto lol


But I do acknowledge that a lot of US destinations are far cheaper out of Buffalo, but some people assume every destination is cheaper through Buffalo when its not really worth it.

[JeiJei]

I think it's not surprising at all considering how incompetent Canadian airlines are.

My wife flew to Vancouver last week as her best friend gave birth to a baby girl.

The cheapest ticket I could find on such a short notice was around $800 RT for YYZ-YVR-YYC-YYZ.

We ended up finding her a ticket for $460 for BUF-ORD-YVR-ORD-BUF. Sure there's an additional stop, but I'd much rather save that money.

Furthermore, as I'm in Hamilton, driving time to either BUF or YYZ are about the same when factoring QEW traffic into..

[Pete_Coach]

I think it's not surprising at all considering how incompetent Canadian airlines are.

My wife flew to Vancouver last week as her best friend gave birth to a baby girl.

The cheapest ticket I could find on such a short notice was around $800 RT for YYZ-YVR-YYC-YYZ.

We ended up finding her a ticket for $460 for BUF-ORD-YVR-ORD-BUF. Sure there's an additional stop, but I'd much rather save that money.

Furthermore, as I'm in Hamilton, driving time to either BUF or YYZ are about the same when factoring QEW traffic into..
How does a difference in price make all Canadian airlines "incompetent"?
Your Wife may have gotten it cheaper but it took extra stops, longer time and 2 trips through customs.

[Conquistador]

How does a difference in price make all Canadian airlines "incompetent"?
Your Wife may have gotten it cheaper but it took extra stops, longer time and 2 trips through customs.

Yup, not seeing the incompetency and while the $ savings appear significant, the extra stop and flying twice through an extremely paranoid country that has demonstrated that they don't want visitors eats up a big part of that IMO.