While Toronto feuded, Los Angeles built transit!!!

[Too itchy]

I know this is another transit thread, but honestly it really ticks me off when Toronto politicians bicker about LRT vs subway, while in LA they are already building multiple transit lines. C'mon Toronto, just start building!!>:(

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/while-toronto-feuded-los-angeles-built-transit/article2388661/

" L.A., however, has embarked on a fix of historic proportions, and did so with astonishing speed. After those brutal back-ups, Mr. Zane, now executive director of Move LA, hustled to assemble a broad-based coalition of business, labour and environmental groups spearheaded by L.A.’s mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, a populist Democrat.

The group delivered something of a miracle: They persuaded a car-addled region of 10 million people to overwhelmingly back a ballot initiative in November, 2008, proposing a half-cent sales tax hike – roughly $25 per person per year – that will net $40-billion over 30 years for transit expansion, highway improvements and other local upgrades, including bike paths. (Two-thirds will go to transit construction and operating subsidies; the rest is for highways, bridges and roads.) Since “Measure R” passed, Metro has started planning or begun construction on no fewer than 12 light rail and bus rapid transit lines, and expects to break ground on a new subway next year."

[Kris81]

The difference is, we could all give $25 a year to go towards this, but chances are 90% of it will be stolen by the politicians, and then asking us to give more money because what they have "ran out"

[flashy_mcflash]

So one subway and 12 LRV/BRT lines? I wonder if anyone told them these trolley cars will ruin their streets?! :razz:

[manmanny]

I know this is another transit thread, but honestly it really ticks me off when Toronto politicians bicker about LRT vs subway, while in LA they are already building multiple transit lines. C'mon Toronto, just start building!!>:(

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/while-toronto-feuded-los-angeles-built-transit/article2388661/

" L.A., however, has embarked on a fix of historic proportions, and did so with astonishing speed. After those brutal back-ups, Mr. Zane, now executive director of Move LA, hustled to assemble a broad-based coalition of business, labour and environmental groups spearheaded by L.A.’s mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, a populist Democrat.

The group delivered something of a miracle: They persuaded a car-addled region of 10 million people to overwhelmingly back a ballot initiative in November, 2008, proposing a half-cent sales tax hike – roughly $25 per person per year – that will net $40-billion over 30 years for transit expansion, highway improvements and other local upgrades, including bike paths. (Two-thirds will go to transit construction and operating subsidies; the rest is for highways, bridges and roads.) Since “Measure R” passed, Metro has started planning or begun construction on no fewer than 12 light rail and bus rapid transit lines, and expects to break ground on a new subway next year."

car-addled region of 10 million people
roughly $25 per person per year – that will net $40-billion over 30 years

So you think Toronto Taxpayers or car owner will pay such hike? And you can not compare LA traffic chaos to Toronto.

[flashy_mcflash]

And you can not compare LA traffic chaos to Toronto.

Why? We are in the top four cities with the worst gridlock in North America and so is LA.

[manmanny]

The difference is, we could all give $25 a year to go towards this, but chances are 90% of it will be stolen by the politicians, and then asking us to give more money because what they have "ran out"

I think Stolen is harsh word. Lets say spent on something we never know. And Toronto always have some or other sepnding scheme and they always run out of money.

Wait for next Election...of Toronto Mayor. Adam or Shelly will be in charge.

[appleb]

Our $25 per year goes to the TTC in the form of fare hikes.

[sandikosh]

$40B over 30 years ain't enough to sustain such an infrastructure. Watch it all crumble to pieces. The only people Move L.A. fooled were the people of LA.

[BongoBong]

$40B over 30 years ain't enough to sustain such an infrastructure. Watch it all crumble to pieces. The only people Move L.A. fooled were the people of LA.

Also I don't see how this gets $40B. $25 from 10 million people, over 30 years is only $7.5B dollars.

[sylpherware]

Also I don't see how this gets $40B. $25 from 10 million people, over 30 years is only $7.5B dollars.

inflation ;)

[BongoBong]

inflation ;)

If they actually are referring to the amount of money they will generate in what they guess the money will be worth in 30 years, that's pretty misleading.

[sylpherware]

If they actually are referring to the amount of money they will generate in what they guess the money will be worth in 30 years, that's pretty misleading.

Well, I was kidding about inflation, but I'm sure they have some formula to estimate that number, such as the consideration of the city's growth rate and people's spending power.

[BornRuff]

The difference is, we could all give $25 a year to go towards this, but chances are 90% of it will be stolen by the politicians, and then asking us to give more money because what they have "ran out"

I don't think there is anything to suggest that California governments are more efficient than Toronto/Ontario. There are actually many reasons to believe that they are much less efficient than Toronto.

[joeyjoejoe]

car-addled region of 10 million people
roughly $25 per person per year – that will net $40-billion over 30 years

So you think Toronto Taxpayers or car owner will pay such hike? And you can not compare LA traffic chaos to Toronto.

There have been reports last year that the average commute time for Torontonians now exceeds LA.

[CDNPatriot]

That's what you get when you have Mayor Blob Lardship and his brother Hog Ford, too busy being stubborn and campaigning for the next election to use the 1 billion dollars sitting at the table waiting to be used while the Toronto unemployment races upwards!

And what about the gazillions of dollars they apparently saved for taxpayers by playing hard ball with the unions? With all that money they should be building subways galore!

[Kris81]

I don't think there is anything to suggest that California governments are more efficient than Toronto/Ontario. There are actually many reasons to believe that they are much less efficient than Toronto.

Fraud from the Conservative Party when it comes to elections.

Fraud & the Sponsorship scandal from the Liberal government.

What did canadians do to them because of it? Absolutely nothing.

Canadian governments steal from canadians, and no one does ****. Show me where california is caught cheating/stealing/frauding their own people. Until then, they are more efficient than Toronto/Ontario

[sylpherware]

Canadian governments steal from canadians, and no one does ****. Show me where california is caught cheating/stealing/frauding their own people. Until then, they are more efficient than Toronto/Ontario

http://bit.ly/HdSifv

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/21/california-city-officials-reportedly-arrested-salary-scandal/
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/california-payroll-corruption-scandal-spreads-city-vernon/story?id=11597835#.T3tz7fCPlBk

[gizmo8]

That's what you get when you have Mayor Blob Lardship and his brother Hog Ford, too busy being stubborn and campaigning for the next election to use the 1 billion dollars sitting at the table waiting to be used while the Toronto unemployment races upwards!

And what about the gazillions of dollars they apparently saved for taxpayers by playing hard ball with the unions? With all that money they should be building subways galore!

what does this has to do with the transit???...unemployment is not the city responsibility unless you want to hire lazy ***** union members doing a job ten of them would take rather than 5 regular motivated contract workers working on a schedule at lower wages...wake up a city is run better if jobs are contracted out and certain goals must be met or your get penalized for either missing schedules or going over budget...aka Useless St Clair line........

[BongoBong]

Well, I was kidding about inflation, but I'm sure they have some formula to estimate that number, such as the consideration of the city's growth rate and people's spending power.

I would be pretty interested to see the calculation because at the current rate and population, they would need just over 5 times the income. So some absolutely ridiculous growth would be needed to actually meet the numbers they proposed. Unless of course there is some other source of revenue beyond the 10 million people paying around 25 bucks, which I figure must be the case if there is any chance of those numbers being realistic.

[CDNPatriot]

what does this has to do with the transit???...unemployment is not the city responsibility unless you want to hire lazy ***** union members doing a job ten of them would take rather than 5 regular motivated contract workers working on a schedule at lower wages...wake up a city is run better if jobs are contracted out and certain goals must be met or your get penalized for either missing schedules or going over budget...aka Useless St Clair line........

Unemployment is not the City's responsibility? Who do you think tracks and records all of the Labour Market Information for the City?

http://www.toronto.ca/telmi/index.html

What do you think the Mayor's job is? Just cutting the workforce and pretending that he saved the city gazzillions of dollars.

The mayor's job is to attract business to Toronto otherwise who do you think will do that? Harper?

[CDNPatriot]

Unemployment is not the City's responsibility? Who do you think tracks and records all of the Labour Market Information for the City?

http://www.toronto.ca/telmi/index.html

What do you think the Mayor's job is? Just cutting the workforce and pretending that he saved the city gazzillions of dollars.

http://www.london.gov.uk/publication/time-skill-mayors-role-employment-and-skills-london

read up on what world class mayors in world class cities preoccupy their time with... that's right employment and growth of the city.

The mayor's job is to attract business to Toronto otherwise who do you think will do that? Harper?

[FairCall]

And Vancouver still has better transit.

[Manatus]

There have been reports last year that the average commute time for Torontonians now exceeds LA.

I imagine a lot of that is also caused by people having to live further and further away because for whatever reason any non-shoebox sized home within Toronto city limits costs close to a million bucks at least. I mean there are people I know who commute every day who live 1.5+ hours drive away assuming there is no traffic at all.

[iridium001]

My cousin living in a suburb outside of downtown LA was here on business awhile back.

He said he thought LA commute was bad, he didn't realize Toronto was worst. The same distance he travels to work in LA during 8am rush hour is 30 minutes. In Toronto, the approximate same distance took him an hour and fifteen minutes, also at 8am.

He was baffled by how Toronto only had 3 major highways. (QEW/Gardiner, 401, and 404/DVP)

He was here for a week. On one of the days he tried taking the TTC, and guess what, one of the stations shut down on him causing him to be an hour late for a meeting. :lol:

He says to me, "How the hell do you people function in this city with your crap highways and subways?"

:facepalm:

[Piro21]

Also I don't see how this gets $40B. $25 from 10 million people, over 30 years is only $7.5B dollars.

It's a sales tax hike. There may be only 10 million people in LA proper, but their suburbanites shop there too, which increases the amount of revenue.

[Tornado F2]

I know this is another transit thread, but honestly it really ticks me off when Toronto politicians bicker about LRT vs subway, while in LA they are already building multiple transit lines. C'mon Toronto, just start building!!>:(

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/while-toronto-feuded-los-angeles-built-transit/article2388661/

" L.A., however, has embarked on a fix of historic proportions, and did so with astonishing speed. After those brutal back-ups, Mr. Zane, now executive director of Move LA, hustled to assemble a broad-based coalition of business, labour and environmental groups spearheaded by L.A.’s mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, a populist Democrat.

The group delivered something of a miracle: They persuaded a car-addled region of 10 million people to overwhelmingly back a ballot initiative in November, 2008, proposing a half-cent sales tax hike – roughly $25 per person per year – that will net $40-billion over 30 years for transit expansion, highway improvements and other local upgrades, including bike paths. (Two-thirds will go to transit construction and operating subsidies; the rest is for highways, bridges and roads.) Since “Measure R” passed, Metro has started planning or begun construction on no fewer than 12 light rail and bus rapid transit lines, and expects to break ground on a new subway next year."

Who did that math? $25 x 10 million = $250 million/year, yet they're talking about $1.33 billion/year ($1333 million/year). They seem to be anticipating EXTREME inflation in the coming decades.

[discostupid]

perhaps they are also assuming that as parts of the network are built they will be generating revenue from that. if you figure the average person would spend another 75 a year on the newly built transit...

[IceBlueShoes]

Fraud from the Conservative Party when it comes to elections.

Fraud & the Sponsorship scandal from the Liberal government.

What did canadians do to them because of it? Absolutely nothing.

Canadian governments steal from canadians, and no one does ****. Show me where california is caught cheating/stealing/frauding their own people. Until then, they are more efficient than Toronto/Ontario
Well the Liberals lost the election so in a sense the people did do something which was voting them out of power.

I imagine a lot of that is also caused by people having to live further and further away because for whatever reason any non-shoebox sized home within Toronto city limits costs close to a million bucks at least. I mean there are people I know who commute every day who live 1.5+ hours drive away assuming there is no traffic at all.
Wow what a waste of life...
I could never do that.