...

[Phokus]

...

[BoogieWilliams]

The reason you feel this way is because you expected things to be handed to you on a platter, by what you just said it seems that you are really ambitious and have somewhat used that till now to pursue your dreams or goals. But you have come to the realization that it is not as easy as it seems and that life isn't fair because you can be the hardest worker with the best GPA and work ethic in the class and you can end up unemployed after graduation. What I suggest for you to do is to put things in perspective. Start making realistic short term goals for yourself and think what the best option for you is to achieve your goal. You said you wanted to be a lawyer right? So why give up all of a sudden especially when your GPA has been 3.4 which is pretty good for first year. Why not continue to work hard and go to all your classes and start studying for exams (I suggest you defer tomorrow's exam). Use your ambition to motivate yourself.

[adamtheman]

I'm currently almost done my second year at York, majoring in Criminology. Overall, I like my program: the material is interesting, my classes are conveniently timed, and the people in my program are cool. From the very beginning of first year, my end goal has always been law school. Growing up, my parents always pressured me to become a lawyer, and I naturally loved law, so it worked out pretty well; the money didn't discourage me either. But lately I've had second thoughts about law school--about whether I had the ambition, discipline, and willpower to commit to it.

For the majority of my first two years, I'd go to about 50% of my classes. I've been completely cruising by school, still managing to pull out a 3.3-3.4 GPA (my classes aren't easy by any means, I just find that I can grasp the material very well). Ever since I started doubting my prospects about law school, my motivation for school has basically reached zero. I've probably gone to three classes in the last 2 months. In fact, I have a final tomorrow and I haven't even started studying (here I am posting this @ 3AM). I just feel like it's worthless to try in school and get As if I'm not going to pursue graduate school. After all, I'll be still graduating with the same degree as the kid that slipped by with D's, right?

Honestly, I'd love to be a lawyer. It's my dream job--not only because of the (perceived) money, but because I love law and helping people. But I seriously don't think I have what it takes, and halfway though, I feel like I'm going to graduate with a worthless degree. I'm honestly sick of school right now. Sure I can go into policing, maybe become a court assistant, or work in corrections. But I really want to make six figures (hah, don't we all), and it seems like grad school is the only logical way to do so with a BA in Criminology. Should I switch into some kind of business program? I honestly feel so lost right now; grad school gave me direction and stability, and it now that I've seemingly abandoned it, I really don't know what to do. I guess money alone should motivate me, but deep inside I feel like I don't have it in me to do it My parents are pretty successful as immigrants coming to Canada with nothing, making a combined income of around 250k a year. I feel like I have it so much easier than them growing up and I'm still going to end up with some crappy 9-5 job making 40k a year.

Should I take a year off school and work? Should I change my program? Should I just man the !@#$ up and study my ***** off for the next 2 years, write the LSAT, and try to get into law school? I just wanna be rich......what are my options? Please help RFD =) Thanks in advance.

You sound fairly intelligent, so I'm going to help you out, because you're me 5 years ago. Here's the deal - first, the logical side of things... you're only just finishing your 2nd year of school. If you're having doubts now, then you really need to think about why, because... the road to becoming a lawyer isn't easy. First of all, there's too many lawyers - seriously. There's an oversupply of lawyers and jobs are becoming scarce. But putting that aside, you're not a lawyer yet, and you won't be for 6 years. You've still got 2 more years left of university, then 3 years of law school, then 1 year of intense articling before you pass the bar. That being said, even if you pass the bar, lawyers aren't always rolling in the dough. You would need to get very good grades in law school and land a top notch articling spot on bay street, work your ***** off getting billables for the full year (you have no idea how 1 year of articling can make you age about 10 years). Then if you manage to get that bay street job, for 150k a year, you'll be working 70-80 hours a week.

You say you want to be rich... my question to you would be... how do you value wealth? We know how your parents value wealth, but how do you value it? Keep in mind, the universe is quite large, and there's 7 billion human beings on this measely pathetic little planet, and you're just one of them. How are you going to spend your time on earth? Do you feel the ultimate pursuit of life is getting a law degree and working at a bay street job for 10 or 15 years, trying to make partner? If you end up like your parents when you are their age, would you consider your life a success? If you were 80 years old and on your death bed, what would you want your life to have looked like? I'm not saying law school is a bad choice, but you don't want to become a lawyer, and go through all of that stuff, just to end up realizing it was the wrong choice. Honestly, being a lawyer is a tough job, and many people can't handle it. The fact you are asking these questions now, quite honestly, indicates to me that you really probably can't handle it. That's not a challenge, or a bad thing. It's just... the guys you will be up against for those bay street jobs, well, they aren't posting on here at 3am, and they aren't doubting themselves. They are buried in books. And they will slit your throat for that job, and push you down the stairs just to finish you off. So the last question I'd ask is, do you really want to work in that kind of environment?

You get what you pay for in life... and you earn what you work for. There is a reason jobs on bay street pay more, and it isn't because they are just generous. It's because no one wants to do those jobs. High stress, high powered jobs, for big faceless companies. Being a lawyer for a smaller urban or rural firm might pay half of what bay street pays, but there's a reason for that... you work 1/2 the hours. So don't just look at salary. People always make a bad habit of quoting salary, like 150k on bay street, but... that's for 80 hours a week as I mentioned. So if you can pull in 70k for 40 hours a week, and have some time to actually live, you will be laughing. And if you haven't ever worked 80 hours a week, I recommend you try it... it might sound good on paper, but it's not. You'll find yourself working 6 days a week, and 14 hour long days. Imagine waking up at 6am and getting home at 8pm, for 6 days in a row, every week... week after week. When will you find time to spend all that money you're making? And then you will get married and have kids, and your wife will complain that you never spend anytime with your kids, and you're "always working", even though she will enjoy all the things that your money buys her (but you won't, because you'll be working). Then she will divorce you... and she will get full custody of the kids, because she has been the primary caregiver. She will tell the judge that you are a "workaholic". But good luck trying to stop working, because you can't... the judge won't let you. You need to keep earning the same level you'd be earning throughout the marriage, because that is what your child support and alimony will be based on. Of course, none of this will happen to you, because you'll find the dream girl and you'll never get divorced, and you'll make partner, etc. It always sounds good on paper, but the reality... not so good.

Well... here you go buddy... words of wisdom. Take what you will. I'll tell you, you were me 5 years ago... and now, I'm 27 years old, and I live a great life. I work at a government job, 35 hours a week, make 63k a year, lots of vacation time, no debt, etc. Work is a very small part of my life, as it should be. It pays the bills, and lets me enjoy life, travel, hobbies and so forth. Decide how you're going to spend the next 60 years of your life before you die.

[jewville]

your parents make 250k? what do they do?

[Mayyhem]

Awesome post and wise words from AdamTheMan.

[naxos98]

You need to think hard about whether you truly want to become a lawyer. From what you wrote, it seems like you were steered into this career path by your parents. You also state that part of your willingness to be a lawyer is for the money. How much of that is from pressure from your parents to work hard and earn good money?

You state that you just want to be rich. Do you have a drive to do what it takes to be rich? Everyone would like to be rich, not everyone has the drive to make that happen. Not everyone is willing to make the sacrifices necessary to do so.

When I was your age, I had aspirations to climb the corporate ladder and make the big money. But as I got into the industry and realized what it took to achieve it, I realized it was a sacrifice I didn't wanted to make. As I got older too, I realized there are other things in life that are more important than money and a fancy job title. How you value spending time with friends and family, and being able to enjoy your spare time (as opposed to being always at work or tethered to work) are things to consider.

Not everyone is destined to earn a lot of money and have a prestigious job, not having those aspiration doesn't make you any less of a person. The question is whether you want to define your success in life by how much money you have and the career you are in.

[Intotheblue12]

Dude you sound so lazy, I honestly don't think you would hack it as a lawyer. This is the problem with our current system. People early in life put the cart before the horse and decide what they want to be for the rest of their life in early formative years when they don't know **** about the real world. If I were you I would stop taking classes and lowering your GPA as you obviously are clearly disinterested in school at the moment. Go grab a phone book and call 20 law offices around your city and ask to speak to someone at their firm to do an interview because you want to know whether to follow your passion of law. Go to those meetings and grill all the lawyers about everything about their life. What area they practice in, do they enjoy it, how many hours a week do u work, what do u like, what do you not like, and after you have talked to at LEAST 10 people in the profession then decide whether you want to pursue it.

There are so many clueless young people out there these days that spend more time planning where they are going to go for reading week break then they do planning out their careers. I used to be one of those people, and now I am learning the hard way by attending the university of hard knocks (the post undergrad real world).

If you have the attitude that your undergrad GPA doesn't matter you need to stop taking classes right now because you may also screw yourself over if you get bad marks. Keep in mind, people change careers all the time however your academic record does NOT change. You may think you don't need the marks now, but what about if you have a change of heart later in life about what you want to do with your career, and there is some post grad program that would be perfect for your new direction although there is one problem; you spent your undergrad coasting through getting **** marks and you now can't get into any post grad program.

[spike1128]

To the OP.

Adamtheman is hit the nail in the head. What he said is right. The top positions is for people who knows where they want to be and what it takes to get there, if there is any self doubt, you don't really belong there. Your competition will chew you up and spit you out without hesitation, there is no self doubting at the top.

While Intotheblue also give good advice to look for people in the profession and see if you can get more information from them. Then decide if you still want to go into the profession. He is a bit realistic about young people being dreamers. Most people dream of professions because they never had anyone close to tell us about it. That's what immigrants go through, lack of connections to the good lives.

If you want to make it, why you even bother to be a professional when your parents already pull 250Gs a year. If most of us has any connections in business to pull in 250Gs a year, I wouldn't even bother going to school to be a professional. That's what I would have done, go into the family business.

[setell]

Excellent post by adam. Law is a field that will chew you apart and eat you alive if you are unprepared. Everybody that wants law is a workaholic and most if not all know what they are getting into. I am going to sound mean but I don’t think law will suit you at this point in your life. Even if you get into law school, you won’t survive as your work ethic is the pits right now. You should go back to the drawing board and figure out what YOU want to do and what YOU like to do. I would take a year off from university after this semester and do some self-reflecting before you screw up your gpa. Law is a very finicky field that takes a special kind of personality for you to succeed in it. Like I tell my brother, be prepared to work if you want law. If you don’t want to work long hours then don’t go into law. Law generally accepts a lot of super humans where the students are geniuses and very active in the community. It is always going to be a competition to be the best of the best and if you are barely surviving this ungrad gpa fight….how the heck are you going to fight for LSAT, applications, articling, jobs etc. Not to belittle your gpa but a 3.3 is what a B+ if on a 4.0 scale. To get into law school a B+ is dangerous zone as most applicants are A average folks. You’ll need an insane LSAT to be accepted if you got a B+ average. How can you turn your B+ to an A average? Are you up for that challenge? If you can’t do it then it’s time to change your career aspirations and re-configure what you want to do with your life.

Good luck.

[HealthProfessional]

To the 2nd year original poster, there's some real quality advice happening here. I highly recommend that you read the feedback provided by others, then re-read them a few times (especially the one from Adamtheman) and reflect on them, but don't forget to act!

Note: you are probably in exams, if you know you didn't study, I would defer my exams although I have never done so myself; considering your circumstances, you should. Clear out your mind, answers don't come easy in terms of what you want in life, you have to get out there and talk to those already practicing.

Best of luck kiddo =)

[Phokus]

Just finished my exam, I reviewed the material the two hours before the test, and thankfully I think I managed to pull a high B/low A.

There really is some life-changing advice in this thread. While I haven't made any decisions yet, what I do will definitely be at least
partially-informed by the posts made here. I'm considering the option of taking a year off school to explore different
career paths and rethink the whole law school route. I probably wouldn't be able to pull the grades I need over the next two
years for grad school anyways with my current mindset and work ethic.

Thanks everyone for posting :D

[eudaii]

hey, as a fellow arts student (graduating this june)...my advice to you is bring your grades UP! Us arts students are screwed after graduation if we don't do further education of some sort...it's the sad reality. If you graduate with a mere B average, it will not get you anywhere. You will have no leverage over the competition, since the BA is such a commonplace thing now. So, your best bet is to bring the grades up, and that will open many doors for you after graduation.

it's not too late! you're only in 2nd year! most grad schools look at the GPA of your last two years (many law schools do this also)... so i'd say if you really want to succeed with your BA, you need to will your own success. Start focusing on your future! Start focusing on bringing up your GPA! An arts student with low GPA is equivalent to a high school graduate, IMO (i.e. no competitive advantage).


Good luck

[Octavius]

hey, as a fellow arts student (graduating this june)...my advice to you is bring your grades UP! Us arts students are screwed after graduation if we don't do further education of some sort...it's the sad reality. If you graduate with a mere B average, it will not get you anywhere. You will have no leverage over the competition, since the BA is such a commonplace thing now. So, your best bet is to bring the grades up, and that will open many doors for you after graduation.

it's not too late! you're only in 2nd year! most grad schools look at the GPA of your last two years (many law schools do this also)... so i'd say if you really want to succeed with your BA, you need to will your own success. Start focusing on your future! Start focusing on bringing up your GPA! An arts student with low GPA is equivalent to a high school graduate, IMO (i.e. no competitive advantage).


Good luck

Well...a few.

If I'm not mistaken (things may have changed over the past few years), the only law schools that look exclusively at an applicant's last two academic years are:

- University of Alberta
- Dalhousie
- Western
- Calgary

I think Queens, Osgoode Hall, and University of Saskatchewan place an "emphasis" on an applicant's last two years, but the applicant's overall GPA is still considered in some fashion.

[drey2k]

35 hours a week, make 63k a year, lots of vacation time, no debt, etc.

duh... WINNING!

You can even smoke weed before work, no one will notice or care!

[Cress]

I am seriously surprised at the complete lack of sarcasm in this thread. ... That is excellent!
Now OP, man the f* ck up, seriously. Just ask yourself this: do you want to be able to give the same options to your kids that your parents are giving you now?

At the end of the day, the job is just there to take you to your goals, you don't have any goals. That will chew you up before bay street does.

What you need is context. Take a year off and hang out. Watch people with goals flying by and your life turning to *****.

Your parents should kick you out for a while if you still live with them and cut support.

Once you have become the worse you can be, you will either be wasted for life or have a few goals that should take you to your 50s.

Edit: the other posters are dead on, wealth will require sacrifices.


Cheers,

[beerbaron105]

You sound fairly intelligent, so I'm going to help you out, because you're me 5 years ago. Here's the deal - first, the logical side of things... you're only just finishing your 2nd year of school. If you're having doubts now, then you really need to think about why, because... the road to becoming a lawyer isn't easy. First of all, there's too many lawyers - seriously. There's an oversupply of lawyers and jobs are becoming scarce. But putting that aside, you're not a lawyer yet, and you won't be for 6 years. You've still got 2 more years left of university, then 3 years of law school, then 1 year of intense articling before you pass the bar. That being said, even if you pass the bar, lawyers aren't always rolling in the dough. You would need to get very good grades in law school and land a top notch articling spot on bay street, work your ***** off getting billables for the full year (you have no idea how 1 year of articling can make you age about 10 years). Then if you manage to get that bay street job, for 150k a year, you'll be working 70-80 hours a week.

You say you want to be rich... my question to you would be... how do you value wealth? We know how your parents value wealth, but how do you value it? Keep in mind, the universe is quite large, and there's 7 billion human beings on this measely pathetic little planet, and you're just one of them. How are you going to spend your time on earth? Do you feel the ultimate pursuit of life is getting a law degree and working at a bay street job for 10 or 15 years, trying to make partner? If you end up like your parents when you are their age, would you consider your life a success? If you were 80 years old and on your death bed, what would you want your life to have looked like? I'm not saying law school is a bad choice, but you don't want to become a lawyer, and go through all of that stuff, just to end up realizing it was the wrong choice. Honestly, being a lawyer is a tough job, and many people can't handle it. The fact you are asking these questions now, quite honestly, indicates to me that you really probably can't handle it. That's not a challenge, or a bad thing. It's just... the guys you will be up against for those bay street jobs, well, they aren't posting on here at 3am, and they aren't doubting themselves. They are buried in books. And they will slit your throat for that job, and push you down the stairs just to finish you off. So the last question I'd ask is, do you really want to work in that kind of environment?

You get what you pay for in life... and you earn what you work for. There is a reason jobs on bay street pay more, and it isn't because they are just generous. It's because no one wants to do those jobs. High stress, high powered jobs, for big faceless companies. Being a lawyer for a smaller urban or rural firm might pay half of what bay street pays, but there's a reason for that... you work 1/2 the hours. So don't just look at salary. People always make a bad habit of quoting salary, like 150k on bay street, but... that's for 80 hours a week as I mentioned. So if you can pull in 70k for 40 hours a week, and have some time to actually live, you will be laughing. And if you haven't ever worked 80 hours a week, I recommend you try it... it might sound good on paper, but it's not. You'll find yourself working 6 days a week, and 14 hour long days. Imagine waking up at 6am and getting home at 8pm, for 6 days in a row, every week... week after week. When will you find time to spend all that money you're making? And then you will get married and have kids, and your wife will complain that you never spend anytime with your kids, and you're "always working", even though she will enjoy all the things that your money buys her (but you won't, because you'll be working). Then she will divorce you... and she will get full custody of the kids, because she has been the primary caregiver. She will tell the judge that you are a "workaholic". But good luck trying to stop working, because you can't... the judge won't let you. You need to keep earning the same level you'd be earning throughout the marriage, because that is what your child support and alimony will be based on. Of course, none of this will happen to you, because you'll find the dream girl and you'll never get divorced, and you'll make partner, etc. It always sounds good on paper, but the reality... not so good.

Well... here you go buddy... words of wisdom. Take what you will. I'll tell you, you were me 5 years ago... and now, I'm 27 years old, and I live a great life. I work at a government job, 35 hours a week, make 63k a year, lots of vacation time, no debt, etc. Work is a very small part of my life, as it should be. It pays the bills, and lets me enjoy life, travel, hobbies and so forth. Decide how you're going to spend the next 60 years of your life before you die.

Pretty much the same thing I would have told the OP too, same situation as you, billion things running through my head whether I was making the right choices or not, and now I have a good career with tons of flexibility and time off, or overtime if I feel like busting my ***** and making some bank, lots of travel stories to tell, and more time for a social life.

THIS THIS THIS

[ChampUz]

You sound fairly intelligent, so I'm going to help you out, because you're me 5 years ago. Here's the deal - first, the logical side of things... you're only just finishing your 2nd year of school. If you're having doubts now, then you really need to think about why, because... the road to becoming a lawyer isn't easy. First of all, there's too many lawyers - seriously. There's an oversupply of lawyers and jobs are becoming scarce. But putting that aside, you're not a lawyer yet, and you won't be for 6 years. You've still got 2 more years left of university, then 3 years of law school, then 1 year of intense articling before you pass the bar. That being said, even if you pass the bar, lawyers aren't always rolling in the dough. You would need to get very good grades in law school and land a top notch articling spot on bay street, work your ***** off getting billables for the full year (you have no idea how 1 year of articling can make you age about 10 years). Then if you manage to get that bay street job, for 150k a year, you'll be working 70-80 hours a week.

You say you want to be rich... my question to you would be... how do you value wealth? We know how your parents value wealth, but how do you value it? Keep in mind, the universe is quite large, and there's 7 billion human beings on this measely pathetic little planet, and you're just one of them. How are you going to spend your time on earth? Do you feel the ultimate pursuit of life is getting a law degree and working at a bay street job for 10 or 15 years, trying to make partner? If you end up like your parents when you are their age, would you consider your life a success? If you were 80 years old and on your death bed, what would you want your life to have looked like? I'm not saying law school is a bad choice, but you don't want to become a lawyer, and go through all of that stuff, just to end up realizing it was the wrong choice. Honestly, being a lawyer is a tough job, and many people can't handle it. The fact you are asking these questions now, quite honestly, indicates to me that you really probably can't handle it. That's not a challenge, or a bad thing. It's just... the guys you will be up against for those bay street jobs, well, they aren't posting on here at 3am, and they aren't doubting themselves. They are buried in books. And they will slit your throat for that job, and push you down the stairs just to finish you off. So the last question I'd ask is, do you really want to work in that kind of environment?

You get what you pay for in life... and you earn what you work for. There is a reason jobs on bay street pay more, and it isn't because they are just generous. It's because no one wants to do those jobs. High stress, high powered jobs, for big faceless companies. Being a lawyer for a smaller urban or rural firm might pay half of what bay street pays, but there's a reason for that... you work 1/2 the hours. So don't just look at salary. People always make a bad habit of quoting salary, like 150k on bay street, but... that's for 80 hours a week as I mentioned. So if you can pull in 70k for 40 hours a week, and have some time to actually live, you will be laughing. And if you haven't ever worked 80 hours a week, I recommend you try it... it might sound good on paper, but it's not. You'll find yourself working 6 days a week, and 14 hour long days. Imagine waking up at 6am and getting home at 8pm, for 6 days in a row, every week... week after week. When will you find time to spend all that money you're making? And then you will get married and have kids, and your wife will complain that you never spend anytime with your kids, and you're "always working", even though she will enjoy all the things that your money buys her (but you won't, because you'll be working). Then she will divorce you... and she will get full custody of the kids, because she has been the primary caregiver. She will tell the judge that you are a "workaholic". But good luck trying to stop working, because you can't... the judge won't let you. You need to keep earning the same level you'd be earning throughout the marriage, because that is what your child support and alimony will be based on. Of course, none of this will happen to you, because you'll find the dream girl and you'll never get divorced, and you'll make partner, etc. It always sounds good on paper, but the reality... not so good.

Well... here you go buddy... words of wisdom. Take what you will. I'll tell you, you were me 5 years ago... and now, I'm 27 years old, and I live a great life. I work at a government job, 35 hours a week, make 63k a year, lots of vacation time, no debt, etc. Work is a very small part of my life, as it should be. It pays the bills, and lets me enjoy life, travel, hobbies and so forth. Decide how you're going to spend the next 60 years of your life before you die.

You nailed it in the coffin. Excellent post!

[tmkf_patryk]

Well... here you go buddy... words of wisdom. Take what you will. I'll tell you, you were me 5 years ago... and now, I'm 27 years old, and I live a great life. I work at a government job, 35 hours a week, make 63k a year, lots of vacation time, no debt, etc. Work is a very small part of my life, as it should be. It pays the bills, and lets me enjoy life, travel, hobbies and so forth. Decide how you're going to spend the next 60 years of your life before you die.

Haha,
I work a government job, 35 hours a week, vacation time and all. And it sucks actually. I got 2 weeks left and I am going into the skilled trades. I finished university and looking back, wish I went into the skilled trades right away. I cant stand sitting at a desk, having a meeting or even just talking to the other lazy guys in the government sector. I like working with my hands, and getting a little dirty.


Too many people go into university, the jobs are alright, easy to land if you are intellectual and have some good work attitude, but I wasn't a fan of school in the slightest. Call me dumb but I can't wait to leave.
I got 2 weeks left and plan on going for some black gold, either that or work in the city somewhere (probably after though).

[TodayHello]

Good thread ...... gooooo existential anxiety :)

PS - it never really goes away, you just get comfortable with it