Schools Ripping students off with co-op

[sheriden23]

k I dont get it, why would i pay the school from between $500- $700 and still have to find a co-op placement myself, when I can just find a job myself? the only thing positive i see is that you get credits during the co-op term. I know some of you are going to say the $500- $700 is worth it. But you can just take a year off from school and just work and you can pay off your tutition

[arclite]

k I dont get it, why would i pay the school from between $500- $700 and still have to find a co-op placement myself, when I can just find a job myself? the only thing positive i see is that you get credits during the co-op term. I know some of you are going to say the $500- $700 is worth it. But you can just take a year off from school and just work and you can pay off your tutition

I was looking into internships at StatsCan but their internships are only available through a university co-op program. Since I am not in co-op I could not apply. Other than that, I agree, co-op does seem a waste of time. One of my friends wasn't in co-op but he found an internship with IBM on their website, applied and has been working their for over a year. Haven't seen him since, not sure if he graduated.

[Syne]

It's important to note here that not all co-op programs are created equal.

Some very good ones (like Waterloo for example) practically guarantee you a co-op and it will reduce the amount of time taken to get your degree.

Other programs, the co-op does not reduce the amount of time to get your degree, and they make you pay to basically put your resume into a pool and wait. If you're not selected, you blew the money on nothing. In my opinion, co-ops at provincial colleges and universities should be regulated so that a.) co-op should be paid or not eligible -and- b.) amount of students paying for co-op cannot exceed available jobs.

Then this problem would be fixed.

[Jyeatbvg69]

Co-op is worth it and I don't know how many times I'm going to have to say it or how many more of these threads will pop up but:
- If co-op is paid (always is in my program), you make money and pay off school
- Co-op is experience, and gives you a heads-up on most other students
- You pay $500 because the school gives you a pool of jobs that is ONLY AVAILABLE to those in the co-op program (at least in the program I'm in)
- If you can't get a job in a co-op program, you're doing something wrong. How do you expect to get a full-time job if you can't get a 4-month internship out of a pool of jobs?

So obviously my opinion is based off of my program, but as you can see co-op is definitely worth it.

[FairCall]

The fee you pay access fee for the job pool that only coop students can see. I know it seems like a money grab, but there are some pretty cool jobs in there so it's worth it.

[Syne]

- If you can't get a job in a co-op program, you're doing something wrong. How do you expect to get a full-time job if you can't get a 4-month internship out of a pool of jobs?


Is this necessarily true though?

I mean, if 100 co-op applicants apply to a pool of 50 jobs, are 50 applicants 'doing something wrong' as you describe? Not necessarily.

Now that was perhaps a more extreme example than is reality for most programs, but put the dilemma here to scale and you might see why someone who did everything to spec might end up without a placement.

[Bskll]

It's important to note here that not all co-op programs are created equal.

Some very good ones (like Waterloo for example) practically guarantee you a co-op and it will reduce the amount of time taken to get your degree.

Other programs, the co-op does not reduce the amount of time to get your degree, and they make you pay to basically put your resume into a pool and wait. If you're not selected, you blew the money on nothing. In my opinion, co-ops at provincial colleges and universities should be regulated so that a.) co-op should be paid or not eligible -and- b.) amount of students paying for co-op cannot exceed available jobs.

Then this problem would be fixed.

waterloo doesn't guarantee you a co-op position, but it is required for some programs to be able to graduate.
there have been many cases where waterloo students do not find co-op for the first and second co-op semester. Although, waterloo does have a lot of industry contacts and is located next to all the major tech centers.



Is this necessarily true though?

I mean, if 100 co-op applicants apply to a pool of 50 jobs, are 50 applicants 'doing something wrong' as you describe? Not necessarily.

Now that was perhaps a more extreme example than is reality for most programs, but put the dilemma here to scale and you might see why someone who did everything to spec might end up without a placement.


this depends on the quality of the program being run.

seneca college for example, has a 95% placement rate for their co-op programs.

[DJ Dennis]

It's important to note here that not all co-op programs are created equal.

Some very good ones (like Waterloo for example) practically guarantee you a co-op and it will reduce the amount of time taken to get your degree.

Other programs, the co-op does not reduce the amount of time to get your degree, and they make you pay to basically put your resume into a pool and wait. If you're not selected, you blew the money on nothing. In my opinion, co-ops at provincial colleges and universities should be regulated so that a.) co-op should be paid or not eligible -and- b.) amount of students paying for co-op cannot exceed available jobs.

Then this problem would be fixed.

How is co-op guaranteed?

[Jon Lai]

How is co-op guaranteed?

It's not - he said practically.

If you have a uWaterloo account, you can check the statistics. Most programs range between 90-100% employment rate, higher if you are upper year, and higher during the good times. Even during 08-09 the rate of employment was about 88-92%.

[ukilledanoob]

well schools also have to hire a lot of co-op administrators, Councillors, and secretaries and what not to do all the paperwork. They also find jobs to put into the pool that students end up paying for access to.

[kaydees]

That "fee" isn't for giving you placements. For Waterloo it's:

The co-op fee covers about 20% of the total costs of operating the co-operative education program at the University of Waterloo.

The cost of operating the University as a co-op institution consists of three parts:


•work term administrative related costs
•academic delivery costs (extra course offerings to accommodate different streams)
•additional costs for year-round operation


If you look at most companies career site, they tell you to apply through your school and there is not a way for a random person to apply directly to the company..The fee isn't even anything when you will be making like 8k + from one co-op term.

[WildWolf]

If Co-Op was a guarantee, how come there are so many school people looking for work ? No one has any real figures to back up that co-op etc works. Any statistics released can't be taken to heart because they can be altered or exaggerated. I still say what others have been saying and studying for years, school is the biggest hoax.

[Syne]

I would say one of the worst examples of a co-op program is Fanshawe College's IT co-op program. At the time I was too young and naive to ask questions, but looking back it's pretty obvious that the school really helped out a handful of students to get placements and hung the rest out to dry. Yet, because we strangely felt like we were competing with each other for these jobs, nobody talked about it.

Looking back, I would have went for a full refund or threatened a class action because the placement rate couldn't have been above 60%, which is criminally low for a co-op program, especially considering this was well before the economic meltdown.

[gilboman]

It's important to note here that not all co-op programs are created equal.

Some very good ones (like Waterloo for example) practically guarantee you a co-op and it will reduce the amount of time taken to get your degree.

Other programs, the co-op does not reduce the amount of time to get your degree, and they make you pay to basically put your resume into a pool and wait. If you're not selected, you blew the money on nothing. In my opinion, co-ops at provincial colleges and universities should be regulated so that a.) co-op should be paid or not eligible -and- b.) amount of students paying for co-op cannot exceed available jobs.

Then this problem would be fixed.

not even close... there are lots of waterloo and other school's co-op's who don't get placements. I don't know why you think a co-op program should/would necessarily mean you get a placement. How do you determine number of available jobs???

[Syne]

^ It's probably worth reading the rest of the thread before you hit the 'reply with quote' button.

[sheriden23]

Co-op is worth it and I don't know how many times I'm going to have to say it or how many more of these threads will pop up but:
- If co-op is paid (always is in my program), you make money and pay off school
- Co-op is experience, and gives you a heads-up on most other students
- You pay $500 because the school gives you a pool of jobs that is ONLY AVAILABLE to those in the co-op program (at least in the program I'm in)
- If you can't get a job in a co-op program, you're doing something wrong. How do you expect to get a full-time job if you can't get a 4-month internship out of a pool of jobs?

So obviously my opinion is based off of my program, but as you can see co-op is definitely worth it.

Thank you for your insight
But cant a student do the same thing by taking a year off school and just work for a year, the only difference is that you dont have to pay the co-op fee

[gilboman]

^ It's probably worth reading the rest of the thread before you hit the 'reply with quote' button.

I did and none of what you posted/suggested makes any sense. Who goes into coop expecting the school to find them a placement? other than HS lol

[ukilledanoob]

Thank you for your insight
But cant a student do the same thing by taking a year off school and just work for a year, the only difference is that you dont have to pay the co-op fee

Well usually co-op fills in the periods that you'd otherwise be off from school. If you take a year off in between your degree your essentially delaying graduation ...

[Mark77]

I think the trend towards these co-op programs is very destructive to industry. Instead of industry seeking out the brightest graduates, they tend to re-hire their previous co-op employees (which may or may not be the brightest) often to the exclusion of the brightest graduates.

Also, from what I've seen, once you've done a co-op in one sector, good luck getting a job in another sector. Essentially one is 'typecast' into a sector even before they graduate. If someone does a work term at, say, OPG, and doesn't like OPG, well, they're stuck. I've seen very little evidence that co-op experience has any value to any employer other than the employer that originally hired on an internship position. ie: a work term at IBM, won't help you if you're applying to, say, Google.

When I went through school, the internships were marketed towards students who were broke, burned out, and 'lost' after 3rd year. Not exactly your top academic achievers. The idea was, someone would go on an internship, pay off their debts, and be re-energized for 4th year. The 'top' students took the view that co-op delayed graduation for a year...and instead of using the first year of work to make $35-$40k/year on an internship, one could make $60-$75k/year straight out of school. This was when the tech industry was vibrant and hiring although.

One risky thing about co-op is that one has a significant risk of loss of momentum. In engineering, a solid understanding of 3rd year subjects is a pre-requisite for the 4th year subjects. If one works at a co-op job for 16 months, a significant amount of theoretical knowledge can be lost, especially in areas that are highly mathematical and not too practical. Going back to university for 4th year has a far more significant re-learning curve. Much like its a lot easier to go to grad school straight out of undergrad, than it is to return after a 20 year absence.

[Mark77]

Well usually co-op fills in the periods that you'd otherwise be off from school. If you take a year off in between your degree your essentially delaying graduation ...

Yeah I don't know why we stigmatize time off of school, or even the amount of time it takes to complete university. I did 2 degrees in a little over 4 years, and quite frankly, I regret it. I should have taken my time, taken a few summers in Europe and Asia, drank more beer, seen the world, and become a more rounded person.

Yet you have so many employers these days, basically calling students "lazy" if they didn't work summer jobs, or if they have any sort of resume gaps. A lot of employers out there won't even interview new grads unless they have a bunch of prior work experience.

[Mark77]

not even close... there are lots of waterloo and other school's co-op's who don't get placements. I don't know why you think a co-op program should/would necessarily mean you get a placement. How do you determine number of available jobs???

One thing that's downright scary about co-ops and employment in general, is that usually HR clerks do the selection/hiring for co-op students, while permanent hiring is typically done by the staff in the business that the new grad will be working in. Usually by professionals with similar backgrounds.

Should HR clerks be determining who is the future talent of the business? Or should those decisions be made by the professionals (ie: engineers, accountants, lawyers, scientists, etc.)? "Co-op" fits nicely into a HR-utopia where HR clerks are in charge of most staffing decisions in a business (and keeps labour costs down). But it means that a ton of talent that doesn't fit into HR's neatly defined processes, get passed over, while businesses end up hiring relatively low in the talent pool.

[Chai]

As a co-op student right now, I'll give my two cents:

1. The co-op fees you're paying for not only gives you a pool of jobs where you can apply to, it also gives you a "badge" to distinguish you from the others. Consider this, if you were an employer, and you were looking to hire a student for XXX position, would you rather spend hours reading through all those applications, or would you rather have a more focused pool of applicants (e.g. Waterloo) where you know that there are many qualified individuals for the job?

I'm not saying that there won't be other candidates out there that can't do the job as well, it just makes it THAT much easier for the employer.

2. As an applicant, you're likely to spend at least 10x more time looking for those jobs. JobMine at Waterloo has hundreds of jobs that could be related to your field of study.

3. What pretigious employer in their right mights would hire an undergrad co-op who stops school for a year just to work? I haven't heard of any as of yet. Feel free to prove me wrong.

4.
Also, from what I've seen, once you've done a co-op in one sector, good luck getting a job in another sector. Essentially one is 'typecast' into a sector even before they graduate. If someone does a work term at, say, OPG, and doesn't like OPG, well, they're stuck. I've seen very little evidence that co-op experience has any value to any employer other than the employer that originally hired on an internship position. ie: a work term at IBM, won't help you if you're applying to, say, Google.

...

One risky thing about co-op is that one has a significant risk of loss of momentum. In engineering, a solid understanding of 3rd year subjects is a pre-requisite for the 4th year subjects. If one works at a co-op job for 16 months, a significant amount of theoretical knowledge can be lost, especially in areas that are highly mathematical and not too practical. Going back to university for 4th year has a far more significant re-learning curve. Much like its a lot easier to go to grad school straight out of undergrad, than it is to return after a 20 year absence.

In response to this, I feel different completely. I spent my first co-op term working at a CA firm doing audit and tax. My last work term involved me working in Arbitration for the Ministry of Finance. Completely different positions, unrelated work.

I doubt there's any significant loss in momentum. In a normal program, you have the summers off. However, in co-op programs, you simply go to work. If anything, you'd have the chance to apply what you learned in school to the workplace which certainly helps with retention. This definitely beats rotting away in the summer.

[gilboman]

As a co-op student right now, I'll give my two cents:

1. The co-op fees you're paying for not only gives you a pool of jobs where you can apply to, it also gives you a "badge" to distinguish you from the others. Consider this, if you were an employer, and you were looking to hire a student for XXX position, would you rather spend hours reading through all those applications, or would you rather have a more focused pool of applicants (e.g. Waterloo) where you know that there are many qualified individuals for the job?

I'm not saying that there won't be other candidates out there that can't do the job as well, it just makes it THAT much easier for the employer.

2. As an applicant, you're likely to spend at least 10x more time looking for those jobs. JobMine at Waterloo has hundreds of jobs that could be related to your field of study.

3. What pretigious employer in their right mights would hire an undergrad co-op who stops school for a year just to work? I haven't heard of any as of yet. Feel free to prove me wrong.

4.

In response to this, I feel different completely. I spent my first co-op term working at a CA firm doing audit and tax. My last work term involved me working in Arbitration for the Ministry of Finance. Completely different positions, unrelated work.

I doubt there's any significant loss in momentum. In a normal program, you have the summers off. However, in co-op programs, you simply go to work. If anything, you'd have the chance to apply what you learned in school to the workplace which certainly helps with retention. This definitely beats rotting away in the summer.

lol...poor naive student

[Mark77]

I doubt there's any significant loss in momentum. In a normal program, you have the summers off. However, in co-op programs, you simply go to work. If anything, you'd have the chance to apply what you learned in school to the workplace which certainly helps with retention. This definitely beats rotting away in the summer.

Maybe in Accounting, but in engineering, typically, in 3rd year, you will have subjects that are entry-level into the 4th year sub-fields. Without an extremely solid background in those 3rd year subjects, you really can't do the 4th years subjects.

So let's say one takes Fluid Mechanics I in 3rd year. Doesn't ace the class, but does moderately okay on it. Takes an internship for 16 months doing maintenance management at a nickel mine in Sudbury, a typical MechEng internship.

Goes back to school for 4th year. *wham*, because nothing on the internship actually used fluid mechanics or even mathematics, the student basically has to re-learn all of Fluid Mechanics I, before they take 4th year Fluid Mechanics II.

Yes, I agree that your example can be good, but there are lots of areas in engineering that this sort of logic applies.

As for 'rotting away' in the summer, that's a generalization. If the program was extremely intensive, like engineering, its often a well-deserved break. One can reconnect with their family, develop social skills, enjoy sunlight and the birds. Maybe appreciate some of the finer things in life. I just have no clue why anyone would stigmatize someone who didn't work during the summers. Stigmatize debt and irresponsibility, perhaps, but not working, geez...


Consider this, if you were an employer, and you were looking to hire a student for XXX position, would you rather spend hours reading through all those applications, or would you rather have a more focused pool of applicants (e.g. Waterloo) where you know that there are many qualified individuals for the job?


Ummm, the downside of this is that the employer is effectively being able to use the threat of being failed out of / kicked out of Waterloo, to extract a lower price for labour from a student, than the student may otherwise worth in the marketplace. I don't think universities should be in the business of creating a situation which reduces the ability of their students/graduates to earn higher compensation.

Its somewhat like the H-1B program in the United States, and Indian nationals. Most of them are afraid to ask for raises from their bosses because the boss can simply have them deported if their demands are too much. Nor can they quit and look for another job without facing deportation (much like a Waterloo co-op student can't quit a crappy job without having to go through a lot of hassle). No negotiating power whatsoever.

[kaydees]

Maybe in Accounting, but in engineering, typically, in 3rd year, you will have subjects that are entry-level into the 4th year sub-fields. Without an extremely solid background in those 3rd year subjects, you really can't do the 4th years subjects.

So let's say one takes Fluid Mechanics I in 3rd year. Doesn't ace the class, but does moderately okay on it. Takes an internship for 16 months doing maintenance management at a nickel mine in Sudbury, a typical MechEng internship.

Goes back to school for 4th year. *wham*, because nothing on the internship actually used fluid mechanics or even mathematics, the student basically has to re-learn all of Fluid Mechanics I, before they take 4th year Fluid Mechanics II.

Yes, I agree that your example can be good, but there are lots of areas in engineering that this sort of logic applies.

As for 'rotting away' in the summer, that's a generalization. If the program was extremely intensive, like engineering, its often a well-deserved break. One can reconnect with their family, develop social skills, enjoy sunlight and the birds. Maybe appreciate some of the finer things in life. I just have no clue why anyone would stigmatize someone who didn't work during the summers. Stigmatize debt and irresponsibility, perhaps, but not working, geez...

Where are you even getting 16 months from... most co-op jobs are 4-8 months.. it would be pretty stupid to take one 16 month job not even related to your field.

[Mark77]

Where are you even getting 16 months from... most co-op jobs are 4-8 months.. it would be pretty stupid to take one 16 month job not even related to your field.

Most of the schools I'm familiar with have 'co-op' as being a 16-month term between May of the current year, to September of the next year. With the option to leave after 4 months if the relationship majorly sucks (ie: it ends up being essentially a summer job).

And the example I gave, maintenance management, is highly related to the MechEng field. However, as with most areas of engineering, there are a lot of theoretical classes taught that are definitely not used in day-to-day engineering work in industry. Co-op, for this reason, works great for vocational schools (ie: tech schools, technologists, maybe even accountants to some extent although we usually don't think of accounting as being a technical vocation), but as for universities and areas with a lot of theoretical work, there's definitely a lot of downsides.

[Jyeatbvg69]

Thank you for your insight
But cant a student do the same thing by taking a year off school and just work for a year, the only difference is that you dont have to pay the co-op fee

1. It's a lot more difficult to get a full-year internship by cold-calling employers (assuming you don't have connections) than getting co-op terms from a pool of co-op only job placements. You're competing with everybody (grads/undergrads/phd/etc.) vs. people in your co-op program.
2. Working in 2 or 3 companies can give you better experience than working at 1 company. Or it can be argued that working a full year at 1 company is better. Take your stand.
3. As others have said, co-op students usually graduate on-par or a semester after normal grads. Taking 1 year off throws you off for an entire year.

And co-op fee is like $500..why is this a big deal when you're making over $10K in a term?
I don't understand the logic here since we've given many good reasons for co-op but it seems that the only negative that keeps arising is a co-op fee which is a fraction of what you'd be making.

[Jyeatbvg69]

Is this necessarily true though?

I mean, if 100 co-op applicants apply to a pool of 50 jobs, are 50 applicants 'doing something wrong' as you describe? Not necessarily.

Now that was perhaps a more extreme example than is reality for most programs, but put the dilemma here to scale and you might see why someone who did everything to spec might end up without a placement.

If you cannot get a job then of course it is not worth it. If you buy a lottery ticket and don't win, is it worth it? Of course not!

The difference is that co-op programs with good reputations generally have a job placement rate of well over 90%. For that other 10%? Tough luck. I think if you're in that 10% you have to question why the other 90% of students got a job and why you didn't. You may not be doing something wrong, but chances are that you are!

[Chigu]

k I dont get it, why would i pay the school from between $500- $700 and still have to find a co-op placement myself, when I can just find a job myself? the only thing positive i see is that you get credits during the co-op term. I know some of you are going to say the $500- $700 is worth it. But you can just take a year off from school and just work and you can pay off your tutition

Good luck finding a job on your own and remotely get the quality of jobs that you would get out of a decent co-op program. First of all, Employers would go through the co-op process to get TAX CREDITS, and cheap skilled labour. They know that the people that they are hiring from the co-op program is actually interested in their field, also due to the competitive nature of the co-op program, those students will work hard, and also the company can get tax credits for hiring a co-op student.

Also I think there needs to be a distinction between co-op and internship. In my view, co-op is shorter-term and internship is longer.

Sure you can probably find a regular job to pay for school, during your off semesters, but I doubt you'd get nearly the same amount of pay. Also, co-op is not just to make money, it's to gain valuable and relevant experience for your future career. I went to Waterloo for accounting co-op, I ended up doing my Co-op placement at PricewaterhouseCoopers, and they hired me on after that. Good luck walking in off the street without having any designations and getting hired by a big 4 firm (without knowing the right people). Each of the large firms always set aside a set number of places for co-op students, and as a non-coop student, you do not have access to those positions.

The fee they charge is high, but it's worth it to get access to those employers and the relevant pay/experience. They do have admin costs such as providing the tax documentation to the employers, grading the work reports, follow up meetings with the co-op students to ensure they are not just doing photocopying all day, but more importantly you are paying for them to advertise the co-op program, and 'hit the ground' to find more employers to be a part of the program. This in turn helps the students, by giving them more options and a high employment rate.

Small price to pay in my opinion.

[Chigu]

Most of the schools I'm familiar with have 'co-op' as being a 16-month term between May of the current year, to September of the next year. With the option to leave after 4 months if the relationship majorly sucks (ie: it ends up being essentially a summer job).

And the example I gave, maintenance management, is highly related to the MechEng field. However, as with most areas of engineering, there are a lot of theoretical classes taught that are definitely not used in day-to-day engineering work in industry. Co-op, for this reason, works great for vocational schools (ie: tech schools, technologists, maybe even accountants to some extent although we usually don't think of accounting as being a technical vocation), but as for universities and areas with a lot of theoretical work, there's definitely a lot of downsides.

Waterloo - majority are 4 month co-op terms, some 8 months
U of Toronto - 4 month co-op terms
Brock - 4 month, 8 month co-op terms

The only time I have seen LONG -term co-op or internships, is colleges, and Ryerson.

Here is an extract directly from Queens University Faculty of Engineering and Applied Science

"Internship students must complete a 12 or 16 month industrial placement, known as the Queen's Undergraduate Internship Program (QUIP) to be eligible for graduation. The longer work term (compared to a four month co-op position) affords interns the chance to participate in more extensive and significant projects."

Internships are longer term, Co-ops are shorter term. The OP was about Co-op NOT internships.

[Mark77]

Waterloo - majority are 4 month co-op terms, some 8 months
U of Toronto - 4 month co-op terms
Brock - 4 month, 8 month co-op terms


I always thought UToronto's PEY program was exactly that, a year-long internship (ie: up to 16 months, May to Sept of the next year)?

Where do you get UToronto = 4 months???

[kaydees]

I always thought UToronto's PEY program was exactly that, a year-long internship (ie: up to 16 months, May to Sept of the next year)?

Where do you get UToronto = 4 months???

What you are talking about shouldn't even be considered co-op... that's just simply an internship. UofT Scarborough has co-op that is 4 or 8 months.

http://mgmtcoop.utsc.utoronto.ca/about - don't know anything about this, just showing the 4 or 8 month co-op

[Chigu]

What you are talking about shouldn't even be considered co-op... that's just simply an internship. UofT Scarborough has co-op that is 4 or 8 months.

http://mgmtcoop.utsc.utoronto.ca/about - don't know anything about this, just showing the 4 or 8 month co-op

That was what I was talking about, BBA management co op at utsc.

[kaydees]

Not sure why so many people are criticizing co-op, are you just upset that you couldn't be in such a program? I am fine with people who went through co-op and have negative things to say about it, but if you aren't even in the program you shouldn't even be judging it.

To those saying not everyone gets placements, a school can't just do the work for you and place you with any company.. that isn't even how it works in the real world. And I'm sure an employer wouldn't be happy with that process either and would probably stop using the co-op program if they had no choice in the student they employ...

If you suck at interviews and school, obviously being in co-op won't magically land you a job. :facepalm:

[206bw]

UTSC management coop here.

I've landed some pretty amazing coop work terms and they only hire coop students.

If you are willing to put some effort in customizing your resume, prepare yourself before the interview and be able to present yourself in a reasonable manner, you should not have any trouble finding a coop job.. (at least at UTSC's management program... I've heard lots of horror stories from those in the arts programs)

And no.. coop job posting does not include being hired by the University to do admin work...

of course, there are people out there who just simply lack common sense, communication skills, or not willing to put in some effort and expects the school to assign them to a Big4 accounting firm or the Big5 banks.. that will not happen...

[Syne]

I would think that having a top-name university on your resume wouldn't hurt though..

[4seasonscentre]

I was very glad I took co-op in undergrad.

A year before we went out we took a non-credit 'course' which was a series of workshops and guest speakers. I found them really helpful. At my school we had to submit our resumes and they had to be approved. At one point they were handed back to us and virtually everyone was forced to revise- it was tough love. I realize resume and interview help are offered at any career centre but our co-op office was much more harsh but helpful. My first job I got on my own, but in many cases companies will interview students on campus though the co-op office.

It would have been 2005 when starting going out for placements and the economy was much better. I also think there were fewer/smaller co-op programs- now every school does it. Everyone I knew in the business program found something. We had to pay an administration fee per placement. Back then, if you didn't get a placement, you didn't have to pay the fee. Now things are tougher and not everyone secures a job. There's one part that you pay regardless and another part you pay upon securing a placement. The hardest term is the summer (May-Aug) term because you are fighting with those that want summer jobs. Our school has an internship program for international students and I can't image the placement rate for them being very good as they are still adjusting to the language and culture.

I wasn't able to go back to the company I did my co-op at, but my experiences did help me get a few interviews. When looking for full time work, it helped to have gone through the application and interview process already before. It was also useful for developing references and having something besides education and extra curricular on your resume.

[windforcexx28]

I see the extra fee as the cost of maintaining the job bank and network for students to apply jobs at. It's a little price to pay for the extra experience and money you earn during the coop terms.

[mtchicken]

your basically paying the school for coop so you can work for free, have companies hire you for free. that's not a rip that's a scam.

[kaydees]

your basically paying the school for coop so you can work for free, have companies hire you for free. that's not a rip that's a scam.

What are you even talking about? You get paid just like a regular employee on co-op...can be minimum wage (rare) to over $30/hour.

[kear7856]

your basically paying the school for coop so you can work for free, have companies hire you for free. that's not a rip that's a scam.

u get paid for co-op and the company would most likely hire u after your done u guys make it sound like co-op is mandatory

[stryker09]

I see a lot of poorly defended arguments for not liking co-op. It seems most people hate it just because. Like someone else mentioned the only people talking in this thread should be people who have had experience with co-op.

[Syne]

I've had two co-op jobs. Both were pretty awful and I didn't enjoy them very much.

[206bw]

The quality of job posting vary greatly between schools and programs.

From my experience, business and engineering has the most proper/relevant coop jobs.

Other programs are a mix bag. I know people in the science coop program working in exciting projects at the zoo, while others are washing beakers at a lab

[Chigu]

your basically paying the school for coop so you can work for free, have companies hire you for free. that's not a rip that's a scam.

You are obviously trolling, since many ppl have said before your post that you get paid pretty well for Co-op. But I'll bite; Just to give you some numbers. My first co-op term I was paid 35,000/yr, second co-op term 38,000 per year, and my third co-op term was in the range of 45,000/yr. I don't remember how much for my 4th.

That works out to 11,600, 12,700, and 15,000 respectively per co-op term (4 months). Also, I told them not to deduct taxes, because I would just use my tuition credits against my income. That is a lot more than minimum wage.

[1-anh]

Engineering co-op student here willing to share my thoughts. When I first started co-op I thought it was a great program willing to help the students as much as they can to find a job, in my first term it was extremely difficult to find anything and I was barely able to find a position from one of my professors who asked me if I was interested in working for them in the lab. The next few terms I was able to find a job quickly working for a mining company and an oil/gas company. I realized that the co-op office doesn't do very much for the student other than post jobs on a website and take approx ~$600 for their "efforts". This last work term I was able to secure interviews with several major companies without the help of coop. In my opinion co-op is only useful for getting your foot in the door when you have no idea which companies hire the type of position you are looking for, once you have an idea it is just as easy to apply for those jobs without the co-op program. I will say that there are a few jobs that are exclusive to the co-op program but for the most part, its not necessary. Also for the person who said co-op jobs don't pay well, my salaries have been 30k/yr, 48k/yr, 48k/yr, 55k/yr and 63k/yr. So in some industries the salaries are very good but there is a large variance.

[BoogieWilliams]

Engineering co-op student here willing to share my thoughts. When I first started co-op I thought it was a great program willing to help the students as much as they can to find a job, in my first term it was extremely difficult to find anything and I was barely able to find a position from one of my professors who asked me if I was interested in working for them in the lab. The next few terms I was able to find a job quickly working for a mining company and an oil/gas company. I realized that the co-op office doesn't do very much for the student other than post jobs on a website and take approx ~$600 for their "efforts". This last work term I was able to secure interviews with several major companies without the help of coop. In my opinion co-op is only useful for getting your foot in the door when you have no idea which companies hire the type of position you are looking for, once you have an idea it is just as easy to apply for those jobs without the co-op program. I will say that there are a few jobs that are exclusive to the co-op program but for the most part, its not necessary. Also for the person who said co-op jobs don't pay well, my salaries have been 30k/yr, 48k/yr, 48k/yr, 55k/yr and 63k/yr. So in some industries the salaries are very good but there is a large variance.

For Engineering it's exactly this you can easily find the same positions by searching for them yourself. You have to know the companies in your field and basically search daily for jobs during the months of January, February, and March which is when most of the co-op/summer jobs are posted. You can easily find what engineering companies are in Ontario by looking at the PEO yearly reports. As for the whole business tax credit, you don't have to be in co-op, the business will get the tax credit for hiring you as long as you are a full time student returning to university in the fall. As for the jobs that are exclusively to co-op programs those are usually the types of jobs that require you to work for 2 terms in a row.