I was just car doored... Whos at fault?

[007craft]

So I was riding my bike down the road when some dude parked at the side (at the meters) opens his door just as I'm passing. I was going pretty fast and didn't even have a split second to pull the brakes. I hit his door with the right side of my body. My bike collapsed and I flew into the traffic lane. Luckily the car in the lane was only going around 40 and was able to apply the brakes before he hit my bouncing body. My right leg is busted up and bloody, and my left arm which I assume I landed on, looks like there's a muscle popping out or something, but I don't feel any pain in it. My bikes crank cover broke off and the chain came off, but I was able to get the chain back on and working.

A bunch of people carried me out of the road and I was in shock, still trying to understand exactly what had just happened and I defaulted to my natural state of being, which is super nice guy and stubborn tough guy. So I refused the ambulance to the girl on the phone with 911 (I wasnt going to pay that $75 ambulance fee) and told the guy not to worry and just be careful and check his mirrors before opening his car door next time. I then managed to limp another 4 blocks to my house.

Is this was my fault in anyway? Not that it matters as I didn't take the guys name when he offered and I will pay to have my crankset fixed myself (just wondering). I was riding in the lane of parked cars, rather then the traffic lane. Mind you its only a 2 lane street (1 lane each way) + parking lanes, so If I rode in the 1 traffic lane, nobody would be able to pass me and I would hold up traffic (people honk). So I ride in the parking lane (been doing it on this road to and from work for 2 years now), which has lots of room, so long as nobody open a car door in your face. Where am I supposed to ride?

[MrKap]

It was his fault, he apologized. It is not his fault if you don't take him up on the offer.

Hey last time something like that happened to me, a car cut me off and sent me right into the back of a parked mini van. He stopped, got out to see if I was okay, saw the damage to the back of the mini van and took off.


If there was a car where you were, he would have lost his whole car door. It is common sense to look before you open your door where there is traffic.



I was riding in the lane of parked cars, rather then the traffic lane.

If you were riding between the parked cars and the sidewalk, and there was no bike lane or any sort of bicycle or pedestrian designation, it was probably your fault.



I hit his door with the right side of my body. My bike collapsed and I flew into the traffic lane.

It is hard to visualize you striking the door and landing in the traffic lane, if you were riding between parked cars, and the sidewalk.



Maybe you should drop by emergency and check for a concussion if you hit your head at all.

[stuntman]

It was his fault, he apologized. It is not his fault if you don't take him up on the offer.

Hey last time something like that happened to me, a car cut me off and sent me right into the back of a parked mini van. He stopped, got out to see if I was okay, saw the damage to the back of the mini van and took off.


If there was a car where you were, he would have lost his whole car door. It is common sense to look before you open your door where there is traffic.


If you were riding between the parked cars and the sidewalk, and there was no bike lane or any sort of bicycle or pedestrian designation, it was probably your fault.

It is hard to visualize you striking the door and landing in the traffic lane, if you were riding between parked cars, and the sidewalk.

I would not be so sure about your the other guys fault theory....or not the other guys fault theory. (although an apology is an admission of guilt)
It was a marked parking lane. How is it possible to rid between the parked cars and the sidewalk?

[MrKap]

How is it possible to rid between the parked cars and the sidewalk?

Some cities have really wide lanes to the side, which are designated parking areas, and there is plenty of room to ride between the cars and the sidewalk. It is really rare though. I think I can remember etobicoke maybe having a stretch of road like that, and that's it. I don't really know of too many places where you can ride between cars and the sidewalk.



I would not be so sure about your the other guys fault theory

If they apologize, and offer their names and to pay for damages, then that means they are admitting fault to a lesser extent. I am not a lawyer.

If they opened the door into a traffic lane, and something hits their door, they are at fault. Doesn't matter if a car hits the door, or if a bicycle hits the door. Again, I am not a lawyer.

[007craft]

Sorry I guess I wasnt clear. Take a look here

http://maps.google.com/?ll=49.285447,-123.126113&spn=0.000861,0.002406&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=49.285514,-123.126216&panoid=R1Kn_Y2E4duGNwaeHqSLNw&cbp=12,347.51,,0,8

That's exactly where it happened. See how the cars are parked. He opened his driver side door to get out and didn't look before he did. I was riding in that space. I see other cyclists riding here every day and everyone rides in the same space.

[MrKap]

If a car was making a left turn onto that road and their nose dipped across the line, who would be at fault?

Bicycles are allowed to ride in that lane. They will never get a ticket nor break any laws for riding in the lane which is closet to the sidewalk.


If it helps, it's a fairly wide lane, you should be more careful not to hug the sides of cars. They can't always see what's coming, and if it looks like they have enough clearance, they won't give it a second thought.

[stuntman]

OK...the law states:

HTA Section 165, (a):
No person shall open the door of a motor vehicle on a highway without first taking due precautions to ensure that his or her act will not interfere with the movement of or endanger any other person or vehicle.

That being said....maybe the car driver did take the required precautions but the OP was zipping along or otherwise not reasonably visible.


Here is a an article about an Ottawa cyclists death:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2011/10/25/ottawa-cyclist-death-charges.html

[sandikosh]

So I was riding my bike down the road when some dude parked at the side (at the meters) opens his door just as I'm passing. I was going pretty fast and didn't even have a split second to pull the brakes.

Speed kills! Next time ride slower!

Maybe the dude did look to see if it was safe. But the speed at which you were going made the difference.

[stuntman]

Some cities have really wide lanes to the side, which are designated parking areas, and there is plenty of room to ride between the cars and the sidewalk. It is really rare though. I think I can remember etobicoke maybe having a stretch of road like that, and that's it. I don't really know of too many places where you can ride between cars and the sidewalk.

I think someone needs to back you up on that one. Why would the car not park close to the curb?
AND
if there is that much space between the car and the curb the person in the car STILL has to reasonably make sure they are not presenting someone with a door prize.

[007craft]

Speed kills! Next time ride slower!

Maybe the dude did look to see if it was safe. But the speed at which you were going made the difference.

Nah he admitted to not looking. He was scared that I was hurt, asking me multiple times if I had hit my head (I did not). He, like many drivers, did not look before he opened his door. Ive almost been car doored several times, but with some quick evasive maneuvers, was never hit. This is the first time I was hit like that. I hope this particular driver checks his mirrors 100% of the time while exiting his vehicle from now on.

I cant even remember seeing the door that it happened so fast. Immediately after falling my first thought was to roll out of traffic. I was actually amazed at my survival instincts kicking in. Once I determined a painful roll was not required as the car in the lane was slowing down/stopped, I then wondered why I hit an invisible wall. A quick memory and I recalled seeing a flash of a black door before I went down. I think I was looking to the left, to check my shoulder for hazards and only turned at the last second to see the top corner of the door as I slammed into it.

[1929]

This is chargeable offense under the traffic act. If a bicycle rider hits an open car door; the person opening the door is at fault, period. They did not look at the mirror or out the window. Have the jerk charged by the police!

To help you when riding near parked cars, watch every drivers mirror. If you see a driver look down in the mirror STOP they are going to open the door NOW! I used to ride @ race speeds 30- 45 Km in the city used this tactic and never hit a door, looked at every mirror for drivers.

[MrKap]

I think someone needs to back you up on that one. Why would the car not park close to the curb?

I'm not saying they don't, I just thought that since he was questioning whose fault it was, and he was wondering where he was supposed to ride, that maybe he was weaving on and off the sidewalk when there was room to.

Some cars have enough room to park away from the curb, it is pretty rare, but it does happen. Usually when there are painted lines hinting there should be a little extra clearance from the curb.

[stuntman]

OH yeah...the OP is still alive....I forgot that was pretty lucky and fast thinking...congrats OP.

[stuntman]

I'm not saying they don't, I just thought that since he was questioning whose fault it was, and he was wondering where he was supposed to ride, that maybe he was weaving on and off the sidewalk when there was room to.

Some cars have enough room to park away from the curb, it is pretty rare, but it does happen. Usually when there are painted lines hinting there should be a little extra clearance from the curb.

I am pretty sure a car is required to be within 12 inches of the curb when parked.

[MrKap]

Yeah, then it would be his fault, because he's not supposed to be riding there.

Here this is bad example, but when they have those lines on the road which say how much room, or where the car should go, sometimes there is alot of extra room. Only usually there are diagonal stripes too. Showing where cars can't park.

http://www.mpi.mb.ca/Images/RoadSafety/BikeSafe/WeavingInAndOut.jpg

I went looking for the place I was thinking of in etobicoke but I can't find it. But you would still basically be riding on the sidewalk or in that little ditch that belongs to the curb.

[007craft]

Here is a an article about an Ottawa cyclists death:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2011/10/25/ottawa-cyclist-death-charges.html

After reading this article, I am lucky to be alive. Had the car in the traffic lane been going faster or been a meter closer to my position, I would be a goner. Im not going to trust the public to open their car doors saftely, I will instead change my bike route to work from now on so I do not need to ride next to parked vehicles, and If I ever do ride next to parked vehicles, I will make sure to 100% focus on if there's somebody in the drivers seat so I can slow down/avoid riding next to it in case they pop out. (I do this quite often actually, but not all the time)

[BornRuff]

So I was riding my bike down the road when some dude parked at the side (at the meters) opens his door just as I'm passing. I was going pretty fast and didn't even have a split second to pull the brakes. I hit his door with the right side of my body. My bike collapsed and I flew into the traffic lane. Luckily the car in the lane was only going around 40 and was able to apply the brakes before he hit my bouncing body. My right leg is busted up and bloody, and my left arm which I assume I landed on, looks like there's a muscle popping out or something, but I don't feel any pain in it. My bikes crank cover broke off and the chain came off, but I was able to get the chain back on and working.

A bunch of people carried me out of the road and I was in shock, still trying to understand exactly what had just happened and I defaulted to my natural state of being, which is super nice guy and stubborn tough guy. So I refused the ambulance to the girl on the phone with 911 (I wasnt going to pay that $75 ambulance fee) and told the guy not to worry and just be careful and check his mirrors before opening his car door next time. I then managed to limp another 4 blocks to my house.

Is this was my fault in anyway? Not that it matters as I didn't take the guys name when he offered and I will pay to have my crankset fixed myself (just wondering). I was riding in the lane of parked cars, rather then the traffic lane. Mind you its only a 2 lane street (1 lane each way) + parking lanes, so If I rode in the 1 traffic lane, nobody would be able to pass me and I would hold up traffic (people honk). So I ride in the parking lane (been doing it on this road to and from work for 2 years now), which has lots of room, so long as nobody open a car door in your face. Where am I supposed to ride?

There is no cost for having an ambulance called for you, so don't worry about that next time. The fee is only assessed if you actually leave with the ambulance, and if you have insurance, it will cover that fee.

EMS can come and check you out and then you can decide from there if you want to take the ride to the hospital. They can do a lot of treatment at the scene.

[MrKap]

If you can get up and walk, you don't need an ambulance.

[yao416]

Shouldve drove under the speed limit.

[markom]

After reading this article, I am lucky to be alive. Had the car in the traffic lane been going faster or been a meter closer to my position, I would be a goner. Im not going to trust the public to open their car doors saftely, I will instead change my bike route to work from now on so I do not need to ride next to parked vehicles, and If I ever do ride next to parked vehicles, I will make sure to 100% focus on if there's somebody in the drivers seat so I can slow down/avoid riding next to it in case they pop out. (I do this quite often actually, but not all the time)

You do not have to modify your bike route. You can either ride slower or better yet bike right in the lane where cars are riding. Too bad if traffic will be slowed down, your safety is more important.

[Hugh Jass]

This is chargeable offense under the traffic act. If a bicycle rider hits an open car door; the person opening the door is at fault, period. They did not look at the mirror or out the window. Have the jerk charged by the police!

To help you when riding near parked cars, watch every drivers mirror. If you see a driver look down in the mirror STOP they are going to open the door NOW! I used to ride @ race speeds 30- 45 Km in the city used this tactic and never hit a door, looked at every mirror for drivers.

+1 and +1

I was a bike courier for 14yrs in Toronto and only got the door prize one time. Had about 40/50 very close calls.

Excellent advice about looking at the mirrors. I did that all the time, plus watched for the movement of people in cars when possible. I imagined EVERY door as opening, so was prepared if it did.

[stuntman]

^^^actually, 1929 is wrong:


HTA Section 165, (a):
No person shall open the door of a motor vehicle on a highway without first taking due precautions to ensure that his or her act will not interfere with the movement of or endanger any other person or vehicle.

I know and you know some bike couriers ride aggressively and not always in a straight line.

[bman77]

Sorry I guess I wasnt clear. Take a look here

http://maps.google.com/?ll=49.285447,-123.126113&spn=0.000861,0.002406&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=49.285514,-123.126216&panoid=R1Kn_Y2E4duGNwaeHqSLNw&cbp=12,347.51,,0,8

That's exactly where it happened. See how the cars are parked. He opened his driver side door to get out and didn't look before he did. I was riding in that space. I see other cyclists riding here every day and everyone rides in the same space.

It's not your fault

btw, I got a jays hat at that very lids once... LOVE Robson, back there in 2 weeks!!!!!

[MrKap]

^^^actually, 1929 is wrong:


HTA Section 165, (a):
No person shall open the door of a motor vehicle on a highway without first taking due precautions to ensure that his or her act will not interfere with the movement of or endanger any other person or vehicle.

I know and you know some bike couriers ride aggressively and not always in a straight line.

This is not directed you stuntman, just inspired by you...



OP... if a little toddler is playing ball next to the car door, and the driver opens the door, smashing the little toddlers head off the door, flinging them into oncoming traffic. It's not their fault. It's an "accident".


A driver and their car door is indisputable. If someone is mighty enough to open a door, they command all the space to which they open the door towards.



Stuntman, in any event, whose fault is this? It's entirely unrelated, I just like the video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d12UntwRnrs

[Syne]

I cant even remember seeing the door that it happened so fast. Immediately after falling my first thought was to roll out of traffic. I was actually amazed at my survival instincts kicking in.

It's probably just your alpha male snap judgment kicking in, beast style, making you impermeable to damage and incapable of fear and able to juggle 3 red balls simultaneously.

[Syne]

007Craft, there's something you should know.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtkST5-ZFHw

[zz000ter]

Bicyclists need to be more careful

I would prefer they stay off the roads

[mbg]

I think giving someone the door prize is always the driver's fault? They have to make sure the road is clear before they open their door.

If his door was already open and you shot round a corner without looking ahead then it'd be your fault... but if it opens in your path then it's his fault. He probably was looking for cars rather than bikes.

[Hugh Jass]

I know and you know some bike couriers ride aggressively and not always in a straight line.

100%.

But how does riding aggressively have anything to do with being doored?

The onus is on the driver to look first, to make sure he doesn't whack someone.

[zz000ter]

I think giving someone the door prize is always the driver's fault? They have to make sure the road is clear before they open their door.

If his door was already open and you shot round a corner without looking ahead then it'd be your fault... but if it opens in your path then it's his fault. He probably was looking for cars rather than bikes.

Do you drive in Toronto?
Do you know how fast some bicyclists ride their bikes weaving in and out of traffic?
Do you know how difficult it is to see bikers - especially if there is an SUV or truck parked behind you?

[MacGyver]

Something I learned is that you program the non-emergency police number into your cell phone, and call them in the event of any accident. Let them make the call as to what to do. If you're involved, you're probably in shock and not of sound mind.

[stuntman]

OP... if a little toddler is playing ball next to the car door, and the driver opens the door, smashing the little toddlers head off the door, flinging them into oncoming traffic. It's not their fault. It's an "accident".


huh? That makes no sense. This thread got Kap'd!


Bicyclists need to be more careful I would prefer they stay off the roads
That is right troll, don't you have any other dumb threads to start?.....your preference is unrealistic and inflammatory. You know it and so does everyone else.

[Hugh Jass]

Do you drive in Toronto?
Do you know how fast some bicyclists ride their bikes weaving in and out of traffic?
Do you know how difficult it is to see bikers - especially if there is an SUV or truck parked behind you?

None of that matters. A driver can look into the side mirror beforehand and then peek out as they slowly open the door, holding the door handle the whole time. Completely avoidable if the driver is being cautious enough. But most people aren't that cautious. The one time I got hit, the door flung out full width, I didn't have a chance.

[EmperorOfCanada]

There is no cost for having an ambulance called for you, so don't worry about that next time. The fee is only assessed if you actually leave with the ambulance, and if you have insurance, it will cover that fee.

EMS can come and check you out and then you can decide from there if you want to take the ride to the hospital. They can do a lot of treatment at the scene.

I just recent had a $375 ambulance bill, and I didnt call the ambulance or leave the scene with the ambulance (they did check me out on scene though. Probably no more than 10 minutes)

[zz000ter]

That is right troll, don't you have any other dumb threads to start?.....your preference is unrealistic and inflammatory. You know it and so does everyone else.

So I am a troll because I ask that bicyclists should be more careful.

[Hugh Jass]

So I am a troll because I ask that bicyclists should be more careful.

No. You said you'd prefer if cyclists stayed off the roads.

Cars v bikes has been debated to death. Both have to co-exist, it's up to us all to make that happen.

[zz000ter]

I know that bikes and cars have to coexist on the roads.
I am allowed to voice my opinion that it is UNFORTUNATE that we must coexist.

I would not have a problem with bicyclists if they were careful and considerate.
- - but they are not.

Since the bicyclist will suffer far more from a collision - I see nothing wrong with saying that bicyclist needs to be more careful. Unfortunately - I also thing that bicyclists are far too ignorant and aggressive on Toronto roads. is this a part of the car vs bike proxy war for a class war?

[stuntman]

I know that bikes and cars have to coexist on the roads.
I am allowed to voice my opinion that it is UNFORTUNATE that we must coexist.

Other statements that include the word UNFORTUNATE and are about as relevant:
-it is UNFORTUNATE that cars take up space on the ground. Land is expensive
-it is UNFORTUNATE that individuals don't have to do a drivers test daily.
-it is UNFORTUNATE that bikes cost money.



I would not have a problem with bicyclists if they were careful and considerate.
- - but they are not.
Since the bicyclist will suffer far more from a collision - I see nothing wrong with saying that bicyclist needs to be more careful.
Unfortunately - I also thing that bicyclists are far too ignorant and aggressive on Toronto roads.


Didn't someone already go over this with you.....it has been done to death. Why are you making statements like this....to cause a car/bike flame war? Sounds like a troll to me.



is this a part of the car vs bike proxy war for a class war?

huh? Do you even think when you type?

[jaysfan4life]

Without going to the hospital in an ambulance and calling the cops for a report IMO, you don't have much recourse he has car insurance for a reason you get billing for the ambulance and your rehab if required. The car insurance pay. I hope you get better soon.

[Hugh Jass]

is this a part of the car vs bike proxy war for a class war?

Hardly, as a lot of people are in both groups.

[peanutz]

Hardly, as a lot of people are in both groups.yep. I do.

Car door's fault.

[Doodies]

I think giving someone the door prize is always the driver's fault? They have to make sure the road is clear before they open their door.

If his door was already open and you shot round a corner without looking ahead then it'd be your fault... but if it opens in your path then it's his fault. He probably was looking for cars rather than bikes.

He should have been driving further to the left of the parked car. If he is far enough to the left he will never even have to worry about being hit by a car door. The op is 100% at fault in trhis case.

[Sauerkraut]

If you can get up and walk, you don't need an ambulance.

explain that theory to Natasha Richardson's family

[MrKap]

explain that theory to Natasha Richardson's family

Wiki says she died of hemoraging - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidural_hematoma

They can't do anything for that inside an ambulance. At all...

Hey, if you smack your head, why wait for an ambulance. Get a drive over, or walk over.

An ambulance is for people can't get to the hospital on their own. The other exception is for seniors or retired folks.

If you are riding your bike and you can walk away from an incident, and stand up, you don't need an ambulance.

[BornRuff]

I just recent had a $375 ambulance bill, and I didnt call the ambulance or leave the scene with the ambulance (they did check me out on scene though. Probably no more than 10 minutes)

I guess Saskatchewan has some really wonky fee rules.

[stuntman]

Wiki says she died of hemoraging - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidural_hematoma

They can't do anything for that inside an ambulance. At all...

Hey, if you smack your head, why wait for an ambulance. Get a drive over, or walk over.

An ambulance is for people can't get to the hospital on their own. The other exception is for seniors or retired folks.

If you are riding your bike and you can walk away from an incident, and stand up, you don't need an ambulance.

huh? Ambulances and other emergency crews are first responders and provide first aid and other medical treatments upon arrival. Things that a person can get themselves to the hospital for but should call an ambulance for include:

-stroke
-heart attack
-head trauma
-other stuff.

If you break an arm, take a cab or bus (heck I rode my bike to the hospital for a couple of broken bones). Being macho and not calling an ambulance for certain things can end up being a serious mistake.

[MrKap]

huh? Ambulances and other emergency crews are first responders and provide first aid and other medical treatments upon arrival. Things that a person can get themselves to the hospital for but should call an ambulance for include:

-stroke
-heart attack
-head trauma
-other stuff.

If you break an arm, take a cab or bus (heck I rode my bike to the hospital for a couple of broken bones). Being macho and not calling an ambulance for certain things can end up being a serious mistake.

Yes, but I am telling you specifically, they cannot tread head trauma inside an ambulance. You need a CT scan for that. Hey, you could get to a hospital faster if one of the jerks who hit you and your bike drove you there, rather than calling and waiting for an ambulance.

You guys are so dainty, it the reason why so much money in Ontario dumps into healthcare. Go and spend a day in emergency and see how many people really need it.


That is the problem with "Free". Nothing is ever "free" but so long as the cash isn't taken directly out of someone's pockets they hold no responsibility or accountability for their actions. It opens the doors to abuse.


Can't wait for you to get to the hospital and spend 5 or 6 hours in line waiting for traumatic head injury service. Losers.

[stuntman]

An ambulance is for people can't get to the hospital on their own. The other exception is for seniors or retired folks.


Well....you need better sentence structure.

What would you call a concussion? Ambulance or no ambulance?
broken nose? Broken jaw?

[MrKap]

Do you need stitches? Then you need a doctor. Ambulances do not stitch people together, they staple them together with staples and they keep blood from spilling out of arteries with tourniquets.

If someone totals your bike, and you can get up and walk away from it, and your eyes, are not pouring out blood, then, get a ride home from the jerk who hit you.

[stuntman]

Do you need stitches? Then you need a doctor. Ambulances do not stitch people together, they staple them together with staples and they keep blood from spilling out of arteries with tourniquets.

If someone totals your bike, and you can get up and walk away from it, and your eyes, are not pouring out blood, then, get a ride home from the jerk who hit you.
lol...OK....it is your life/health. I hope no one else is foolish enough to follow that advice.

[MrKap]

lol...OK....it is your life/health. I hope no one else is foolish enough to follow that advice.

I hope you sit in emergency while the hundreds of dainty, precious types eat up hours in front of you.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20120209/manitoba-emergency-room-death-120209/


WINNIPEG — The province of Manitoba says it's not responsible for the death of a man who languished 34 hours in a Winnipeg hospital's emergency room.

Court documents have been filed with the government's defence against a lawsuit filed by the family of Brian Sinclair.

Sinclair's relatives allege the province allowed the ER to operate even though it constituted a "public nuisance" and was "injurious to public health."

Lawyers for the province say the lawsuit is making "bald allegations" without any evidence to back them up.

Sinclair -- a 45-year-old double amputee -- died of a preventable bladder infection more than three years ago at the Winnipeg Health Sciences Centre.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2010/10/19/quebec-man-dies-in-hospital-emergency-room.html



A Quebec hospital is investigating the death of a diabetic man who died while sitting in a wheelchair in the waiting room at a Montreal emergency department.

André Desjardins, 64, died in a hospital emergency department waiting room on Sept. 30. (Photo courtesy of TVA)André Desjardins, 64, went to the Maisonneuve-Rosemont Hospital on Sept. 30 by ambulance after complaining of severe pain.

He already suffered from high blood pressure and was a heavy smoker, in addition to having diabetes.

http://newswire.cup.ca/articles/51942


ST. JOHN'S (CUP) — Burton Winters, 14, of Makkovik, Labrador, died after walking 19 kilometres when his snowmobile became stuck in ice. He was missing for about two days before the government would do anything about it.


http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/01/28/national-post-editorial-board-crisis-in-the-emergency-room/


This just in: Going to the emergency room is hazardous to your health. Not only do you have to worry about whatever afflictions may have brought you there in the first place, but also those you could pick up while you wait — and wait, and wait.

That is the conclusion of a landmark paper authored by researchers at Dalhousie University, recently published in the international health-care journal BMJ Quality and Safety. According to the study, prolonged waits in the ER put patients at greater risk of suffering “adverse events,” ranging from surgical complications, medication errors and c. difficile infections.

Among 982 otherwise healthy elderly patients tracked by the study, the risk of these incidents climbed by 3% for every hour spent in the ER. With average wait times of 20 hours in some provinces, this represents a substantial increase in mortality, not to mention an increase in system-wide pain, suffering and economic costs to the health-care system.



I'll bet you emergency rooms were not as full in Vietnam as they are in Canada.

[Mr.Sea]

Driver's fault for opening the door. Same thing applies for parking lots. If a driver opens their door and a car turning into the spot hits it, its the opener's fault.

[zz000ter]

Driver's fault for opening the door. Same thing applies for parking lots. If a driver opens their door and a car turning into the spot hits it, its the opener's fault.

Are you serious? Where is that parking lot rule written?

So in the scenario that I open my door when there is noone visible
I step out of car and some fast driver enters the parking spot and does not stop
smashes into my door and injures me - it is MY fault?

Somehow that does not make sense.

Whenever I see a door open - I wait until the door is closed to enter the adjacent spot

... but that is just me .... I try to be considerate

[stuntman]

once again. This time with feeling:


HTA Section 165, (a):
No person shall open the door of a motor vehicle on a highway without first taking due precautions to ensure that his or her act will not interfere with the movement of or endanger any other person or vehicle.

[zz000ter]

When is a PARKING lot considered a highway?

first taking due precautions - is the operative word.

I can easily take due precaution and some idiot bicyclist can still hit my door.

Consider this
- I park
- I check my mirrors and blindspot
- I take 10 seconds to open door

In 10 seconds a fast riding bicyclist - or a bicyclist weaving in and out of traffic can enter the space by my car and slam into my car door.

That is why I think the onus should be on bicyclists for their own safety.
If motorcyclists learn how to "ride defensively" why can't bicyclists?

[MrKap]

Just for fun.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qXR16QDS8I



If someone hits you by opening their car door, they are at fault. If you hit someone who is parked, and you weren't cut off, then you are at fault. In every single case, it's an accident. Doesn't really matter who is at fault.

Bicyclists are not required to get bike insurance by law. Car drivers, are.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/register.shtml


Ontario has compulsory automobile insurance. Before you can attach plates to a vehicle or renew your registration, or buy a temporary (trip) permit, the vehicle must be insured. In Ontario, private companies provide insurance coverage.

All vehicles must be insured for third party liability for at least $200,000. This covers you in the event that you injure or kill someone or damage someone's property. Collision insurance to cover damage to your own vehicle is a good idea but not required by law.

[stuntman]

When is a PARKING lot considered a highway?

It is not. Parking lots are not enforced at all. Heck you could t-bone someone in a mall parking lot accident and a cop could do nothing about it.
Mr. Sea was on about the OPs accident being the drivers fault for merely opening the door (the drive was at fault in this case).

I guess should have taken out the second error in Mr. Seas statement about parking lots.

[Hugh Jass]

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/file.php?40,file=22180,filename=DontFeedTheTroll.j pg

[Stinger]

Drivers may hate them, but the Vancouver bike lanes are clearly necessary.

Driver's have caused their own problems here by being ignorant of biker safety. Sure there are bad apples on both sides, but the attitude of many drivers is "I'm in a 1000lb+ vehicle, they are 180lbs of flesh, they should be the ones being careful if they want to save their own life".

Oh ya, and I don't bike for transportation, I'm a vehicle only driver and I'm just generally disgusted about how drivers treat cyclists. Though, side story on the attitudes of many cyclists - at one point when working in Vancouver I had a spray bottle with me because it was all to common for cyclists to lean against cars at a stop because they were too lazy to take their feet out of the stirups :mad:

Case law on cyclist vs driver.
http://www.slatervecchio.com/blog/2011/cyclists-versus-motorists/

[007craft]

Oh ya, and I don't bike for transportation, I'm a vehicle only driver and I'm just generally disgusted about how drivers treat cyclists. Though, side story on the attitudes of many cyclists - at one point when working in Vancouver I had a spray bottle with me because it was all to common for cyclists to lean against cars at a stop because they were too lazy to take their feet out of the stirups :mad:


I do that to buses. I don't touch peoples personal cars tho.

[caRpetbomBer]

Do you drive in Toronto?
Do you know how fast some bicyclists ride their bikes weaving in and out of traffic?
Do you know how difficult it is to see bikers - especially if there is an SUV or truck parked behind you?

How lazy are you to slowly open a door and look to see if a bike is coming.

[zz000ter]

How oblivious are bicyclists to be a bit more careful and to be less aggressive?

[caRpetbomBer]

Doesn't matter where on the road the OP was riding. Aggressive riding or not. The person opening the car door is a fault and could be charged. Takes a person in a car less then a second to see if a bike is coming. That 1 second could save someones life.

[Agafaba]

When is a PARKING lot considered a highway?

first taking due precautions - is the operative word.

I can easily take due precaution and some idiot bicyclist can still hit my door.

Consider this
- I park
- I check my mirrors and blindspot
- I take 10 seconds to open door

In 10 seconds a fast riding bicyclist - or a bicyclist weaving in and out of traffic can enter the space by my car and slam into my car door.

That is why I think the onus should be on bicyclists for their own safety.
If motorcyclists learn how to "ride defensively" why can't bicyclists?

I am perfectly fine with the rule being abolished as long as drivers are ok with me taking up a lane. I ride my bike close to parked cars not because I like being reckless, but because I know drivers hate it when they have to wait for me. Bike lanes that cars cannot park on would also be acceptable.

[zz000ter]

I wish everyone could afford a car.

[Agafaba]

I wish everyone could afford a car.

I still wouldnt get one, its money I can put elsewhere as I rarely travel outside the city.

[kingrukus]

what about me, the guy that cannot even afford a bicycle? daily in toronto i am almost runover by maniacs on their bicycles... so when i see a bicyclist get runover by a dump truck, i chuckle a bit.

[qaz393]

yep. I do.

Car door's fault.

so its the doors fault and not the biker or car driver?

[jaysfan4life]

zz000ter get off your high horse. If your parked on the side of the road you have to look for cars and cyclist before opening your door. The question have for you is do you really have a car or a metro pass? The roads are designed to be shared. The only cyclist that are annoying are the bike couriers. Luckily I'm rarely Downtown during the day.

[Agafaba]

what about me, the guy that cannot even afford a bicycle? daily in toronto i am almost runover by maniacs on their bicycles... so when i see a bicyclist get runover by a dump truck, i chuckle a bit.

In the battle of bike vs car bikers are at a severe disadvantage, so they wait for drivers to leave their vehicles as thats when they are most vulnerable.

[stray-sheep]

Quoted from http://www.insurancehotline.com/at-fault-rules/

19. The driver of automobile “A” is 100 per cent at fault and the driver of automobile “B” is not at fault for an incident that occurs,
(a) when automobile “A” is backing up;
(b) when automobile “A” is making a U-turn; or
(c) when the driver of, or a passenger in, automobile “A” opens the automobile door or leaves the door open. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 19.

parking lot accident: http://www.insurancehotline.com/what-happens-if-youre-in-a-parking-lot-accident/
5. If you hit the open door of a car, the driver who opened the door is at fault.

[feidailo]

So I was riding my bike down the road when some dude parked at the side (at the meters) opens his door just as I'm passing. I was going pretty fast and didn't even have a split second to pull the brakes. I hit his door with the right side of my body. My bike collapsed and I flew into the traffic lane. Luckily the car in the lane was only going around 40 and was able to apply the brakes before he hit my bouncing body. My right leg is busted up and bloody, and my left arm which I assume I landed on, looks like there's a muscle popping out or something, but I don't feel any pain in it. My bikes crank cover broke off and the chain came off, but I was able to get the chain back on and working.

A bunch of people carried me out of the road and I was in shock, still trying to understand exactly what had just happened and I defaulted to my natural state of being, which is super nice guy and stubborn tough guy. So I refused the ambulance to the girl on the phone with 911 (I wasnt going to pay that $75 ambulance fee) and told the guy not to worry and just be careful and check his mirrors before opening his car door next time. I then managed to limp another 4 blocks to my house.

Is this was my fault in anyway? Not that it matters as I didn't take the guys name when he offered and I will pay to have my crankset fixed myself (just wondering). I was riding in the lane of parked cars, rather then the traffic lane. Mind you its only a 2 lane street (1 lane each way) + parking lanes, so If I rode in the 1 traffic lane, nobody would be able to pass me and I would hold up traffic (people honk). So I ride in the parking lane (been doing it on this road to and from work for 2 years now), which has lots of room, so long as nobody open a car door in your face. Where am I supposed to ride?

dude WTF? u shoulda played possum, pay that stupid ambulance fee, AND SUE HIS ***** ! thats negligence on his part for not checking his mirrors and opening his door. u were riding a bike? thats the same as hitting a pedestrian. sue sue sue, that a$$hole will never drive again.

nice guys finish last, next time, if there is a next time, gather witnesses, names, car make and model and plates, whatever u can, and call the nearest ambulance chaser (personal injury lawyer) asap.

[zz000ter]

parking lot accident: http://www.insurancehotline.com/what-happens-if-youre-in-a-parking-lot-accident/
5. If you hit the open door of a car, the driver who opened the door is at fault.

This does not sound right

I should buy a beater and pull some "Ragu style Scams"

here is what I will do
I will cruise the lot and then just as someone opens their door I will smash into it
Then I will claim all sorts of damages - and if the person gives me $500 cash
I will not have insurance involved

[Agafaba]

This does not sound right

I should buy a beater and pull some "Ragu style Scams"

here is what I will do
I will cruise the lot and then just as someone opens their door I will smash into it
Then I will claim all sorts of damages - and if the person gives me $500 cash
I will not have insurance involved

Somehow I doubt many drivers will open their door if they see you idling behind them, just dont get caught by any cameras or we might miss you on the forums ;)

[Hugh Jass]

dude WTF? u shoulda played possum, pay that stupid ambulance fee, AND SUE HIS ***** ! thats negligence on his part for not checking his mirrors and opening his door. u were riding a bike? thats the same as hitting a pedestrian. sue sue sue, that a$$hole will never drive again.

nice guys finish last, next time, if there is a next time, gather witnesses, names, car make and model and plates, whatever u can, and call the nearest ambulance chaser (personal injury lawyer) asap.

It's clowns like you that cause everyone to have high insurance rates.

I think if someone's at fault, they should be on the hook for the damage caused to the bike and any time the injured party is off work.

So, somebody like this driver makes a mistake and you want to stop him from driving for ever :facepalm:

[007craft]

dude WTF? u shoulda played possum, pay that stupid ambulance fee, AND SUE HIS ***** ! thats negligence on his part for not checking his mirrors and opening his door. u were riding a bike? thats the same as hitting a pedestrian. sue sue sue, that a$$hole will never drive again.

nice guys finish last, next time, if there is a next time, gather witnesses, names, car make and model and plates, whatever u can, and call the nearest ambulance chaser (personal injury lawyer) asap.

wtf man? Theres more to life then money and suing people. Its clear the guy who opened the door on me did not maliciously do it on purpose. Im not going to ruin his life because he made a mistake. I just want him to not make the mistake in the future.

On a side note, My leg is feeling alot better today. Feels like I just got a bad cut/bruise. I'm able to walk normally again.

[ShopperfiendTO]

Glad to hear it.

There`s no doubt in my mind that the car driver`s at fault. Don`t people who are parked next to moving traffic (the driver`s side) always check to see what`s outside before they open the door? Forget hitting a cyclist, let`s be more self-centred and think about the driver himself (or his door) getting mowed down by another car. The lanes are not invisible walls.:)

I would recommend that you don`t change your path when you recover unless there is an alternative that you prefer and it`s not just because of safety. I would recommend that you buy and install a bell on your bike and ring it when you are approaching a parked vehicle with a driver still inside.