Calgary: GDC Career Fair, 23 Apr

[volan]

For those looking for employment in Calgary, General Dynamics Canada is holding a career fair on 24 April (not 23 as in title). For more information check out the website below

http://www.gdcanada.com/content/detail.cfm?acronym=calgarycareerfair

[volan]

I'm amazed, I've posted a link to a career fair for an Engineering company in Calgary who is looking for about 40 people (mostly young Engineers) and nobody is even looking at the thread then I come across this discussion

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/jobless-gen-y-young-unemployed-giving-up-hope-1166697/

Seems like something doesn't add up.

[divx]

you posted on rfd, we all make 6 figures here

[Piro21]

General Dynamics, the weapons manufacturer? I've got to let some people know about this.

[volan]

General Dynamics, the weapons manufacturer? I've got to let some people know about this.

Please do your research before making comments. This is General Dynamics Canada, they do not manufacture weapons, they do communications systems, computer systems and sensor systems for our men and women who put themselves in harms way in the defence of Canada.

[volan]

Just a reminder that the job fair is tomorrow (24 April) from 2 - 6pm.

[Firebot]

I'm amazed, I've posted a link to a career fair for an Engineering company in Calgary who is looking for about 40 people (mostly young Engineers) and nobody is even looking at the thread then I come across this discussion

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/jobless-gen-y-young-unemployed-giving-up-hope-1166697/

Seems like something doesn't add up.

Why would someone actually look for a job, when it's easier to post how in shambles the economy is and how there's no jobs for undervalued people such as in engineering? That and the jobs are not in GTA, so it's not part of the known universe and doesn't exist:D

[Mark77]

I'm amazed, I've posted a link to a career fair for an Engineering company in Calgary who is looking for about 40 people (mostly young Engineers) and nobody is even looking at the thread then I come across this discussion

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/jobless-gen-y-young-unemployed-giving-up-hope-1166697/

Seems like something doesn't add up.

Some of us don't want to go through a security clearance, have our past lives, travels, etc. scrutinized at length by an employer that is well known in Calgary to be highly cyclical, and not particularly well paying.

Having said that, I've applied there in the past through their ads on Workopolis. No response, not even an email or a phone call, despite being qualified for their positions. If an employer, even in the 'hard times', fails to treat us professionally with the courtesy of a response, do you think one should waste their time sending more applications?

In the Calgary context, if this outfit has problems recruiting engineers -- they should ask if they are competitive with oil and gas. After all, their employees have to compete against oil and gas industry employees for things like housing, services, etc.

[Mark77]

Seems like something doesn't add up.

Yeah, for starters, not even a single General Dynamics job posting on the APEGA resume referral website, which is pretty much the 'gold standard' for Alberta-based engineers (and costs nothing for employers to advertise). Even though GDC engineers aren't required to be APEGA members, nor is GDC required to register, many/most of them are.

Did you go to the event? I didn't even discover your message until a couple hours after it was over. :(

[squagles]

Please do your research before making comments. This is General Dynamics Canada, they do not manufacture weapons, they do communications systems, computer systems and sensor systems for our men and women who put themselves in harms way in the defence of Canada.

They're a wholly owned subsidiary of General Dynamics, one of the worlds biggest arms manufacturers.

Here's their website's "Core Technologies" page that lists "Advanced fire control systems".
http://www.gdcanada.com/content/detail.cfm?acronym=CoreTechnologies

[Mark77]

They're a wholly owned subsidiary of General Dynamics, one of the worlds biggest arms manufacturers.


Sure.. Is that going to stop many people from applying to a job? No. However, if their application process is unwieldy and/or excessively bureaucratic and/or unprofessional, then the firm shouldn't be surprised that they have problems retaining people. Especially when they dump so many R&D staff -- really, the crown jewels of the company -- and now they're expecting to just hire a few of them back easily.


http://www.obj.ca/Technology/2011-01-25/article-2169315/70-laid-off-at-General-Dynamics,-including-Ottawa/1


GD had 2,000 Canadian employees in October 2009 and after Monday's layoff has around 1,460. Individual office reductions are not being released, but there are currently around 1,100 in Ottawa.

BTW, these layoffs were pretty heavy in Calgary. Between the final remnants of Flextronics/Nortel dissappearing, big layoffs in O&G, the closing down of the GE Harris factory, and reductions at SMART, the electrical/electronics engineers in Calgary have had a real tough time of it these past few years.


Here's their website's "Core Technologies" page that lists "Advanced fire control systems".

In Calgary they build a system that provides for distributed (as opposed to central-tower-based) communications on the battlefield. And, IIRC, they provide hardened/ruggedized computers to support the same. None of the Calgary products are actually directly connected to weapons. The non-military applications of the technology are numerous. Its really no more 'military related' than a glorified/ruggedized cell phone system, albeit the main technology focus is survivability and redundancy.

[volan]

Having said that, I've applied there in the past through their ads on Workopolis. No response, not even an email or a phone call, despite being qualified for their positions. If an employer, even in the 'hard times', fails to treat us professionally with the courtesy of a response, do you think one should waste their time sending more applications?
I can't speak to their practices specifically, but I know that you've been around for a while and you know how this is done, so your response seems a little disingenuous, however I'll explain; an employer puts an ad up somewhere and gets swamped with applications. First the applications get screened (most probably by HR), then applications with potential get forwarded to a manager who further screens them and chooses to interview a small subset. People who don't get interviews don't get calls, this is unfortunately true of almost all companies; I call it the "black hole". You apply and more often than not you don't hear anything.

In my younger days we used to get PFO letters, which were demoralizing but at least it was a response, not anymore. So don't feel like you're being treated unprofessionally or without courtesy, it's just the way things are these days.

I've been on both sides of the application and whenever I go through the process whether it's on the hiring side or the looking side I can't help but feel that the hiring process in general is not efficient and full of flaws, but it's what we have.

[squagles]

They have little icons of a warplane, a tank and a warship on the front page of their website.

I'm sure someone who didn't like the idea of making weapons wouldn't be thrilled with making the technology to co-ordinate the use of those weapons either.

[squagles]

I mean...why even make the distinction?

Who would ever say to themselves "I don't want to work on weapons, but it's okay because I only make the sensors that adjust their flightpath for inclement weather!"

[volan]

I'm sure someone who didn't like the idea of making weapons wouldn't be thrilled with making the technology to co-ordinate the use of those weapons either.I'm sure there are some who wouldn't be thrilled to work at a place that produces so-called green house gasses (oil and gas, manufacturing, etc) those people shouldn't work in those fields. Similarly people who don't like the idea of supporting the men and women who literally put their lives on the line in the defence of Canada need not apply. Personally I would be proud to know that the work I do aides in keeping Canada glorious and free.

[volan]

Who would ever say to themselves "I don't want to work on weapons, but it's okay because I only make the sensors that adjust their flightpath for inclement weather!" I see, it's obvious to me now that you haven't actually looked at them. The sensors they make help detect biological agents in the air and Landmines buried in the ground. Both those sensor technologies are used in civilian applications to keep people like you and me safe.

[squagles]

I'm sure there are some who wouldn't be thrilled to work at a place that produces so-called green house gasses (oil and gas, manufacturing, etc) those people shouldn't work in those fields. Similarly people who don't like the idea of supporting the men and women who literally put their lives on the line in the defence of Canada need not apply. Personally I would be proud to know that the work I do aides in keeping Canada glorious and free.

You claimed another poster didn't do their research when they claimed that General Dynamics was an arms manufacturer. And they we're more or less correct, except for the silly distinction that this particular office only does the sensors or optics or whatever.

I think you owe them an apology.

[Mark77]

I call it the "black hole". You apply and more often than not you don't hear anything.

And I call it a complete lack of professionalism. A simple, "Mr. Mark77, I took a look at your resume, we're in a bit of a slump in the Aerospace/Defense sector right now, but if you call me in 6 months at (403) 555-1212, I will take another look against our current slate of requirements" goes a long way.

After all, we're dealing with resources, engineers, that typically have direct costs of $100k+/year, and total costs of double that. Maintaining good relationships with vendors and labour is important.



In my younger days we used to get PFO letters, which were demoralizing but at least it was a response, not anymore. So don't feel like you're being treated unprofessionally or without courtesy, it's just the way things are these days.


And its completely unprofessional. I am obviously not intimately familiar with the inner workings of all workplaces (although I certainly can read newspaper articles like the one I just posted and see that they summarily fired a good chunk of R&D staff....basically the crown jewels of the business.), I don't even know if my resumes were read by a human or what the real situation on the ground is. I want to provide an employer/client good service and meet their needs, but without feedback, how can I? See what the problem is here?

Even if GDC received 100 resumes, sending out 100 postcards has a relatively trivial cost. At the time, it might seem they're saving $100 on printing, labour, and postage (and whatever HR time is necessary), but now they're being forced to expend considerable effort to re-staff. It smacks of poor business sense on the part of the management there. Especially since they need security-cleared engineers and have ITAR compliance issues that cost dearly to procure and train.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but I'm just annoyed, especially at the insinuation that some people might be complaining in other threads about nothing, or the insinuation that engineering talent is in demand. When it clearly is not.

[volan]

Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but I'm just annoyed, especially at the insinuation that some people might be complaining in other threads about nothing, or the insinuation that engineering talent is in demand. When it clearly is not.I'm not disagreeing, just saying that this is what it's come to lately. When I put an application in to a place I expect not to hear back from them.

[volan]

You claimed another poster didn't do their research when they claimed that General Dynamics was an arms manufacturer. And they we're more or less correct, except for the silly distinction that this particular office only does the sensors or optics or whatever.

I think you owe them an apology.I stand by my previous statement that General Dynamics Canada is not an arms manufacturer.

[Mark77]

I stand by my previous statement that General Dynamics Canada is not an arms manufacturer.

Indeed, the suggestion is just as ridiculous as saying that Bell, Rogers, Shaw, Telus, are drug dealers, because their phone systems are used by certain people to buy and sell drugs.

[squagles]

Indeed, the suggestion is just as ridiculous as saying that Bell, Rogers, Shaw, Telus, are drug dealers, because their phone systems are used by certain people to buy and sell drugs.

Phone systems can have other uses.

What else could you use this for?

http://www.gdcanada.com/content/detail.cfm?acronym=DFCS&page=1&ParentPageID=79085925-d62b-4eee-8ec2-48070cb35f8a

[squagles]

"Battle tested hardware"
"Currently deployed in theatre"

[squagles]

Are Bell or Rogers wholly owned by one of the world's largest arms manufacturers?

[Mark77]

Phone systems can have other uses.

What else could you use this for?

http://www.gdcanada.com/content/detail.cfm?acronym=DFCS&page=1&ParentPageID=79085925-d62b-4eee-8ec2-48070cb35f8a

That looks like a piece of hardware built in Ottawa (613 area code), not Calgary.

[squagles]

I concede your point that the arms manufacturer, General Dynamics Canada, manufactured arms in Ottawa. The other offices owned by the arms manufacturer, which itself is owned by an even larger arms manufacturer, might not physically manufacture the arms, but contribute in other ways to manufacturing arms. The other offices could: designs the arms, plan their manufacturing, or even manufacture arms accessories for the arms they manufacture in other locations.

[Mark77]

I concede your point that the arms manufacturer, General Dynamics Canada, manufactured arms in Ottawa. The other offices owned by the arms manufacturer, which itself is owned by an even larger arms manufacturer, might not physically manufacture the arms, but contribute in other ways to manufacturing arms. The other offices could: designs the arms, plan their manufacturing, or even manufacture arms accessories for the arms they manufacture in other locations.

I truly doubt you'll ever find an engineering job that is 100% wholesome, without hurting someone or something in some form or another.

Your taxes pay for war....is that a reason not to work at all?

[volan]

I'll say it again, General Dynamics Canada does not manufacture weapons, they manufacture computers, which in some cases are used as fire control computers. Seems to me that Computers built by manufacturers like Dell can be used by people to launch attacks at corporations, perhaps people shouldn't work for Dell.

In any case GD Canada is a defence company and is involved in defence-related activities. If you have an issue with it don't bother applying there.

I for one am glad that there are Canadian companies working to ensure the Canadian Forces are equipped with hardware and software that helps fulfil their mission. It would be a shame if they had to go to other countries to obtain that equipment.

[Mark77]

In any case GD Canada is a defence company and is involved in defence-related activities. If you have an issue with it don't bother applying there.


Indeed -- they probably have enough qualified applicants to their business that the last thing they'd want to do is to hire individuals who possess a bad attitude towards the industry in which they operate.