Do you think there will be a generation war with Boomers?

[mbg]

Do you think there's a coming generation war with the Boomers?

Just wondering because, at some point, someone is gonna have to pay for these people to retire when they can't afford to. And I don't think the people behind them will want to do it.

I am kinda wondering whether the country will collectively tell them to go to hell, or whether we'll actually end up paying for them.

Thoughts?

[neutral]

They'll beat us with their dirty diapers.

[Sauerkraut]

I'm old and I won't mind taking a few Gen-Y's out when I go, if you piss me off!

Walt Kowalski rules of engagement.

[Mark77]

Absolutely. The sheer spectacle exists where there will only be 2 workers to support every boomer who is retired, with the boomers being promised massive government benefits, not to mention, the boomers will mostly end up owning the big businesses who employ us.

Considering that half of Canada's workforce don't even pay taxes anyways, but are rather, public servants in some form or another, that means that every private sector workforce worker, on average, will have to pay at least 50% of his labour output just to support boomers.

Sustainable? Hardly. I suspect there will be a lot of people who simply drop out of the system or find it uneconomic to work harder. The boomers' lifestyle and wealth must be destroyed as it is completely unsustainable for non-workers in society to have a lifestyle that exceeds the workers.

Hyperinflation would do the trick. Debt becomes worthless, real estate becomes worthless (debt and RE are the main assets of the boomers), labour becomes extremely valuable (something that boomers don't have a lot of because they are running out of time).

[spike1128]

Something will happen when boomers exit jobs and businesses due to age.

[CDNPatriot]

And worst yet, Boomers are greedy. They don't look out for youth. They look out after themselves. They now are working until 67. Great. While youth sit without jobs or have MBAs while working as a receptionist.


Absolutely. The sheer spectacle exists where there will only be 2 workers to support every boomer who is retired, with the boomers being promised massive government benefits, not to mention, the boomers will mostly end up owning the big businesses who employ us.

Considering that half of Canada's workforce don't even pay taxes anyways, but are rather, public servants in some form or another, that means that every private sector workforce worker, on average, will have to pay at least 50% of his labour output just to support boomers.

Sustainable? Hardly. I suspect there will be a lot of people who simply drop out of the system or find it uneconomic to work harder. The boomers' lifestyle and wealth must be destroyed as it is completely unsustainable for non-workers in society to have a lifestyle that exceeds the workers.

Hyperinflation would do the trick. Debt becomes worthless, real estate becomes worthless (debt and RE are the main assets of the boomers), labour becomes extremely valuable (something that boomers don't have a lot of because they are running out of time).

[transitguy1]

Do you think there's a coming generation war with the Boomers?

Just wondering because, at some point, someone is gonna have to pay for these people to retire when they can't afford to. And I don't think the people behind them will want to do it.

I am kinda wondering whether the country will collectively tell them to go to hell, or whether we'll actually end up paying for them.

Thoughts?

If 3rd world countries like Pakistan and Somalia are still surviving, why are Canadians so f-ing scared ?

makes me LOL anytime someone says oh the babyboomers will cause this and that.

[mbg]

Absolutely. The sheer spectacle exists where there will only be 2 workers to support every boomer who is retired, with the boomers being promised massive government benefits, not to mention, the boomers will mostly end up owning the big businesses who employ us.

Considering that half of Canada's workforce don't even pay taxes anyways, but are rather, public servants in some form or another, that means that every private sector workforce worker, on average, will have to pay at least 50% of his labour output just to support boomers.

Sustainable? Hardly. I suspect there will be a lot of people who simply drop out of the system or find it uneconomic to work harder. The boomers' lifestyle and wealth must be destroyed as it is completely unsustainable for non-workers in society to have a lifestyle that exceeds the workers.

Hyperinflation would do the trick. Debt becomes worthless, real estate becomes worthless (debt and RE are the main assets of the boomers), labour becomes extremely valuable (something that boomers don't have a lot of because they are running out of time).

Boomers trying to downsize to salvage retirement funds from their real estate -- all at once -- is an interesting thought.

I wonder how long before we also start to realize that their parents have more than overcompensated themselves for winning the war.

[mbg]

If 3rd world countries like Pakistan and Somalia are still surviving, why are Canadians so f-ing scared ?

makes me LOL anytime someone says oh the babyboomers will cause this and that.

They're scared because they don't want to live like Pakistanis and Somalians.

And, besides, our culture and society probably requires a basic standard of living to function. You can't run Toronto like you run Mogadishu because it was built with different basic requirements for functionality. The people expect more, too, and it will take a lot less to make things take a turn for the worse.

[transitguy1]

They're scared because they don't want to live like Pakistanis and Somalians.

And, besides, our culture and society probably requires a basic standard of living to function. You can't run Toronto like you run Mogadishu because it was built with different basic requirements for functionality. The people expect more, too, and it will take a lot less to make things take a turn for the worse.

Is that why everyone on RFD keeps complaining why every profession is overpaid and gets paid too much with too many benefits?

Canada WILL turn into one of those if we keep cutting everything........so you can't really expect NOT to be stooping to level of those countries......

[peanutz]

If 3rd world countries like Pakistan and Somalia are still surviving, why are Canadians so f-ing scared ?

makes me LOL anytime someone says oh the babyboomers will cause this and that.Who said anything about any of us being scared? :)


Canada WILL turn into one of those if we keep cutting everything........so you can't really expect NOT to be stooping to level of those countries......OK, "transitguy".

[bullionaire]

Well, at least boomers paid their taxes, unlike those who sneaked in through family unification program.

[peanutz]

Well, at least boomers paid their taxes, unlike those who sneaked in through family unification program.Boomers did not pay the taxes proportionate to what they will use up.

[transitguy1]

Well, at least boomers paid their taxes, unlike those who sneaked in through family unification program.

When you say "sneaked in", are you talking about those who came in legally through proper channel, or those who came on the ship off BC coast?

Why has the Tory majority govt not deported them still?

[transitguy1]

Boomers did not pay the taxes proportionate to what they will use up.

If we use your logic, how do we determine that YOU do not use MORE than what you paid taxes for.

We need to work out a formula so that everyone only gets what they paid for.

Now, please enlighten us, Einstein

[peanutz]

If we use your logic, how do we determine that YOU do not use MORE than what you paid taxes for.

We need to work out a formula so that everyone only gets what they paid for.

Now, please enlighten us, EinsteinYou make it sound like it's rocket science. How sad.

[WildWolf]

And worst yet, Boomers are greedy. They don't look out for youth. They look out after themselves. They now are working until 67. Great. While youth sit without jobs or have MBAs while working as a receptionist.
Those born after January '58 have to work until 67, those before can retire at 65, which includes a majority of the boomers. The ones born after or late 1958, were near the end, there still boomers, not the core you can waive them I suppose. The core are those presently between the age of 55-64 + to roughly 73 for those already retired.

The problem is Boomers are Right Wing. Harper is focusing on Boomers, because they vote. Ask anyone under the age of 42 if he or she votes, probably not, ask them if they know who wrote on there facebook wall today, different answer.

[nasa25]

Current generations are now paying for the sins of past generations and will continue to do so for the next 40+ years.

Regardless of excesses that the boomers have indulged in, the responsibility will be on us all to right this situation. That means a fundamental change in behaviour.

At a micro level, this means a shift towards saving. The current overwhelming level of government debt coupled with the burden that retiring boomers will place on both the pension and healthcare systems will put major strains on government budgets for many years to come.

We can probably learn a thing or two from the depression era generation - spend less, save more, put yourself in a position where you won't have to work until 90 to comfortably retire.

Our collective current standard of living is unsustainable, especially with the emergence of growing economies like the BRIC's (who's economic growth comes at the cost of shrinking/stagnation of historically emergent economies).

Bottom line - save more, spend less and come to grips with this fundamental economic shift that is a byproduct of the global economy.

[nasa25]

I also forgot to mention that PBR is a delicious brew.

[Rembrandt100]

No one has mentioned that todays boomers are leaving billions of dollars to the next generation of thier families. I operated a lawn company and worked for many seniors. For many of them the only income was from Gov. persions such as old age security and maybe a company pension. They did not have CPP to contribute to until they were in thier 30's and upward. They did not use credit cards and pay interest on everything thet bought. They did without and saved the money until they could pay for it. There was only one car in the family not one for every member. They lived in homes 1/2 the size of some they build today and they stayed there as opposed to upgrading every 5 years. More than once I thought to myself "Good grief. You are sitting on over a 1/4 million dollar property. Sell and move to an apartment and spend the rest of your life on what is left." I know someone that has made as much money in the last 5 years on inharitance as he made in income.

Someone said you should only get out what you put in. If that were the case many people would be better off with private pension funds than the Gov. ones. Suppose you only had to pay for what you used? If that were the case if I had no children I should be able to opt out of the school tax. Personnally I do not think I should because the school tax that I pay provides an education to someone else so that they can work and help pay my pension. If the Gov. had set the money paid into pension funds aside to amass on its own terms there would likely be a surplus of funds in it like the teachers pension fund, one of the largest in the world. But they chose not to and added it to general income and used it as needed thinking there would always be more working people than retired ones.

What should we do about the seniors that worked in the 50's to 70's that changed jobs every time they were offered 25 cents more an hour? Remember you could get a loaf of bread and a quart of milk for $.35, an imperial gallon of gas was $.19 and a case of beer was $2.00. A senior paid for the tv and an antenna, today people pay almost more than that tv and antenna for cable service each month.


Just a rant

Dave

[mbg]

Is that why everyone on RFD keeps complaining why every profession is overpaid and gets paid too much with too many benefits?

Canada WILL turn into one of those if we keep cutting everything........so you can't really expect NOT to be stooping to level of those countries......

It goes both ways, though... if you pay too much, you won't have money to pay for other things; if you pay too little, those people won't have money to pay for things that support other jobs.

Public sector is a bit different because there are effectively no taxes paid by those employees, so the argument that higher wages mean more taxes paid doesn't work.

Personally, I think that if you expect a raise equivalent to inflation each year, you should either expect to do more work each year, or expect to be more efficient each year. If you're neither of those, you shouldn't be getting a raise equal to inflation.

[MrKap]

Do you think there's a coming generation war with the Boomers?

Just wondering because, at some point, someone is gonna have to pay for these people to retire when they can't afford to. And I don't think the people behind them will want to do it.

I am kinda wondering whether the country will collectively tell them to go to hell, or whether we'll actually end up paying for them.

Thoughts?

Each generation seems to be worse off according to alot of people. Gen Z, whoever that is coming up, they will probably bludgeon to death Gen Y, Gen X and the Boomers all in one fell swoop.

Wiki claims that's anyone "born from the mid to late 1990s to 2010", so that's anyone in their teens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Z

[ishfish]

I don't think the individual boomer is at blame. i would focus more on gov't. I do not think they knew how long they would live...and all the complications that may present. Most boomers I know worked hard to provide for their families (generally one income because that was how it was to be done) and did not accumulate Toys for themselves.

Quite frankly i think they were harder workers than some of the social media and gaming addicts out there...

[nasa25]

I don't think the individual boomer is at blame. i would focus more on gov't. I do not think they knew how long they would live...and all the complications that may present. Most boomers I know worked hard to provide for their families (generally one income because that was how it was to be done) and did not accumulate Toys for themselves.

Quite frankly i think they were harder workers than some of the social media and gaming addicts out there...

This whole issue comes down to standard of living - sustainable versus unsustainable. Depression era babies were brought up to put funds away for a rainy day - to live within their means and even below them. Boomers (born post war) were brought up in a time of extreme optimism - which has led to a collective fundamental optimism in their spending habits.

What is sustainable? Probably something in between the standard of living of the two generations.

Think about the millions of Americans that took on mortgages they knew they couldn't afford - a problem that almost took down the US economy. First and foremost - we need to learn to live within our means, both at the micro and macro levels.

[mbg]

This whole issue comes down to standard of living - sustainable versus unsustainable. Depression era babies were brought up to put funds away for a rainy day - to live within their means and even below them. Boomers (born post war) were brought up in a time of extreme optimism - which has led to a collective fundamental optimism in their spending habits.

What is sustainable? Probably something in between the standard of living of the two generations.

Think about the millions of Americans that took on mortgages they knew they couldn't afford - a problem that almost took down the US economy. First and foremost - we need to learn to live within our means, both at the micro and macro levels.

There's something missing from this story, though.

Who were the ones who set up these vast social welfare schemes? They began in the 50s and 60s, not in the 70s and 80s. Boomers weren't old enough to set those up.

Depression-era babies may have been brought up to save their pennies, but once they won the war it looks like the floodgates opened.

I guess you could make the argument that Depression-era babies initiated these schemes and Boomers scaled them up out of all proportion to things that are unsustainable and, in the meantime, didn't take care of the things that their parents built -- the bridges, skyscrapers, sewer systems, subways, highway systems, etc. So, not only do we now have to pay for Boomers' retirement and healthcare but we also have to pay to fix the things they didn't maintain properly while they were spending the money on "other things".

But it's worth noting that the Boomers' parents are the ones who retired in their 50s with great pensions in significant numbers -- probably far more than Boomers will be, proportionally.

[nasa25]

There's something missing from this story, though.

Who were the ones who set up these vast social welfare schemes? They began in the 50s and 60s, not in the 70s and 80s. Boomers weren't old enough to set those up.

Depression-era babies may have been brought up to save their pennies, but once they won the war it looks like the floodgates opened.

I guess you could make the argument that Depression-era babies initiated these schemes and Boomers scaled them up out of all proportion to things that are unsustainable and, in the meantime, didn't take care of the things that their parents built -- the bridges, skyscrapers, sewer systems, subways, highway systems, etc. So, not only do we now have to pay for Boomers' retirement and healthcare but we also have to pay to fix the things they didn't maintain properly while they were spending the money on "other things".

But it's worth noting that the Boomers' parents are the ones who retired in their 50s with great pensions in significant numbers -- probably far more than Boomers will be, proportionally.

Current generations are at a disadvantage due to ever increasing competitiveness that has been created by the emergence of the global economy. The rules of the game have changed. People need to adjust to this.

Problem is that we are being pinched from both ends - increasing competitiveness and the global economy is making it more difficult to blueprint a surefire path to financial sustainability. Couple this with the fact that government and personal debts are at an all time high. It's a bleek situation.

I'm 32 and fully expect that ill have to finance my entire retirement.

[spike1128]

Current generations are at a disadvantage due to ever increasing competitiveness that has been created by the emergence of the global economy. The rules of the game have changed. People need to adjust to this.

Problem is that we are being pinched from both ends - increasing competitiveness and the global economy is making it more difficult to blueprint a surefire path to financial sustainability. Couple this with the fact that government and personal debts are at an all time high. It's a bleek situation.

I'm 32 and fully expect that ill have to finance my entire retirement.

The previous poster mention that the boomers scaled up all the not sustainable scheme, that's pretty correct. Also the public works that need to be repair that they let to rot.

The boomer generation is also waiting for their parents' generation to die off in their death beds, so they can collect their inheritance. They will spend that without leaving a dime to their Gen Y children. That's how selfish the boomers are. They are spending like drunken sailors right now, we can see that in the last decade.

+1 on the emergence of the global economy. This is absolutely the work of the boomer generation, they can't denied that they put up that free trade BS and that bankrupted the 1st world country economies. Surely they didn't see this coming, where they bankrupted themselves before they retire and long gone.

The boomers will have no choice but to accept pay cuts to their pension, when the Gen X generation take control of everything. It's inevitable for the boomers to hold on to power forever. The boomers currently control everything, including parliament. Just wait a decade or two before that changes. The boomers are going to go with every man for themselves when that happens.

[WildWolf]

The previous poster mention that the boomers scaled up all the not sustainable scheme, that's pretty correct. Also the public works that need to be repair that they let to rot.

The boomer generation is also waiting for their parents' generation to die off in their death beds, so they can collect their inheritance. They will spend that without leaving a dime to their Gen Y children. That's how selfish the boomers are. They are spending like drunken sailors right now, we can see that in the last decade.

+1 on the emergence of the global economy. This is absolutely the work of the boomer generation, they can't denied that they put up that free trade BS and that bankrupted the 1st world country economies. Surely they didn't see this coming, where they bankrupted themselves before they retire and long gone.

The boomers will have no choice but to accept pay cuts to their pension, when the Gen X generation take control of everything. It's inevitable for the boomers to hold on to power forever. The boomers currently control everything, including parliament. Just wait a decade or two before that changes. The boomers are going to go with every man for themselves when that happens.

True. Great Post. I heard on the radio this afternoon that younger generations should take advice from boomers on retirement. I laughed, they want there parents money to have a good time with and well I don't need to say more cause the above quote fills in those blanks.

[mbg]

True. Great Post. I heard on the radio this afternoon that younger generations should take advice from boomers on retirement. I laughed, they want there parents money to have a good time with and well I don't need to say more cause the above quote fills in those blanks.

It depends what the advice is.

If that advice is, "don't do like me and leave it too late to start saving for retirement", then maybe it's worth listening to.

Just because Gen Y haven't reached their 40s yet, it doesn't mean they won't repeat the same mistakes.

[DaVibe]

They are getting old and bitter and they out number the generation below them.
Yeah, it's coming.

[ishfish]

+1 on the emergence of the global economy. This is absolutely the work of the boomer generation, they can't denied that they put up that free trade BS and that bankrupted the 1st world country economies. Surely they didn't see this coming, where they bankrupted themselves before they retire and long gone.



Thanks for that post. There must be subcategories within the boomer gen - I don't see them all as being like this. Some were very selfish but I think others did with the best of intentions. The selfish ones are likely not the ones as vulnerable to the repercussions.

[nasa25]

The emergence of the global economy was inevitable. Firms have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders to maximize wealth. That means stepping outside of the confines of the domestic economy. As I said before, the game has changed. We need to adjust to the new rules.

[ishfish]

The emergence of the global economy was inevitable. Firms have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders to maximize wealth. That means stepping outside of the confines of the domestic economy. As I said before, the game has changed. We need to adjust to the new rules.

What are the new rules? For corporations to not max wealth?

[nasa25]

What are the new rules? For corporations to not max wealth?

I think you need to reread my post. Capitalistic firms have and always will be driven by profit maximization. Access to the global economy is something to be leveraged to achieve this goal.

[ishfish]

I think you need to reread my post. Capitalistic firms have and always will be driven by profit maximization. Access to the global economy is something to be leveraged to achieve this goal.

I followed you post - I was just curious about the reference to New Rules.

A new structure is what I am reading now: one to control access to the global economy outside of the "homebase" economy.

Thanks.

[bionicbadger]

The problem is Boomers are Right Wing. Harper is focusing on Boomers, because they vote.

The older you get, the more conservative you are in most cases. Young people are all for change, trying new stuff, and shaking thinks up. Old people just want safety, security, stability.