Immigration rules changed, immigration applicants cried foul

[elmst200]

we find in the report
one high school english teacher in China;
a guy with a master’s degree in packaging technology from China;
a chemist from the Chinese University of Hong Kong;
an electronic automation engineer from China.

Well, how could they make a living in Canada if they were approved the immigration visas. Do they have bright chance to get employed in their areas of training? Don't we have enough people inside Canada that have similar or better background that couldn't find (full)employment in this country?

How do you think about the new change to immigration rules?

Is immigrantion a right? Should immigrantion applicants be processed in first-come-first-serve fashion?



Immigration applicants upset at Ottawa’s plan to wipe out backlog
Published 41 minutes ago
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1166154--immigration-applicants-upset-at-ottawa-s-plan-to-wipe-out-backlog?bn=1#article
Nicholas Keung
Immigration Reporter

Little Songqiao Xu was only a year old when his parents applied to come to Canada in 2006.

Today, Songqiao is almost 8 — and his mother and father are still waiting for their immigration visas to be approved.

Their wait, in an immigration backlog that today includes 300,000 other skilled workers and their families, will soon be over. But the outcome is not what they had hoped.

The door to Canada will soon be shut for them with the Conservative government’s recent announcement it plans to return all skilled worker applications received before 2008 and wipe out the lengthy backlog.

“It is absolutely unfair,” said Songqiao’s mother Yan Xu, a high school English teacher in Suzhou, China. “What we lost is not only money, but our youth, our life and our dreams.”

The applicants, many from China, India and the Philippines, wonder why those who patiently followed the rules and queued up for their rightful turn to come to Canada are now being unfairly punished.

Ottawa says they can re-apply under the new skilled immigration program implemented after Feb. 27, 2008, where new regulations limit applications to a small number of occupations in need of highly skilled labour.

But the new qualifying job fields are so narrowly defined that many affected applicants, like Xu, will automatically be shut out.

“First-come-first-served is a universal value,” said Yun Li, another frustrated applicant who has been waiting in the backlog since 2007.

“The Canadian government let latecomers jump the queue and told the applicants in the backlog to wait for further processing, and finally slashed all of us without mercy,” said Li, who has a master’s degree in packaging technology. “What the Canadian government has done is draconian.”

A demonstration is planned next week in front of the Consulate General of Canada in Hong Kong, with applicants from other regions expected to follow suit.

Since Ottawa’s plan was revealed, immigration lawyers and consultants have been frantically answering calls from disillusioned clients overseas.

The Canadian Bar Association has struck a subcommittee to examine the proposed changes and investigate whether the government has the legal authority to stop processing the applications and have them refunded and returned.

“People have been calling, distraught. They just cannot believe it,” said Toronto immigration lawyer Mario Bellissimo, who chairs the subcommittee. “This is a wrong message to be sent by a government purported not to reward queue-jumpers.”

The plan has also created havoc for some lawyers with clients looking for a refund of the thousands of dollars in consulting fees, he added.

But Immigration Minister Jason Kenney said the move, while understandably unpopular, is necessary.

“I can understand their frustration and I regret the fact that they waited patiently in the queue only to find out that we’re returning their applications,” Kenney told the Star.

“If we don’t decisively deal with the old backlog, we’ll be carrying it well into the future. With this reimbursement of fees, we will be able to get to what we call ‘working inventory’ or a ‘just-in-time’ system by the first quarter of 2014.”

Regrets are not enough for affected applicants, however, many of whom put their lives on hold and worked around their immigration plans.

Maurice Xuanjin Zhu says he was hesitant about getting married and having children after he applied in 2006 as a chemist from the Chinese University of Hong Kong, fearing any change in status would jeopardize his position in the queue.

“Too many nights, I woke up in bed thinking of the next stage of processing . . . But I believe I am not the only one who gave up a lot of things and opportunities for a ‘better future,’ ” said Zhu, 31, who works in Shanghai.

“We need to question what integrity means to Citizenship and Immigration Canada. Immigration may be relieved from the heavy burden of the backlog, but Canada is going to lose in the future, for generations to come.

“No one will be willing to go there because it’s not a system we can trust.”

Yuanyuan Dong, another applicant, delayed plans to buy a new house and turned down job offers while waiting for the processing of her application, filed in 2007.

“I feel disappointed with Canada,” said Dong, 32, an electronic automation engineer from Shenzhen, who applied on behalf of her husband Hengjun Wang and son Changrui. “We are not numbers. We are people. We are not backlogs. We are assets.”

Some applicants said they are considering legal action against the government in a déjà vu of a 2002 class action lawsuit, which saw Ottawa lose after changing the immigration system to reduce the backlog.

[Piro21]

I don't get this move. Bring in unskilled immigrants and people complain, bring in skilled immigrants and people complain. Why **** over the ones who try to come here legally, especially in favour of those who applied after them? This will just drive even more skilled labour to the US, Europe, Japan, and Australia.

Hell, bring in no immigrants and people complain about being taxed to death to support the boomers. What the hell does everyone want?

[Kohanz]

All I can say is I have nothing but empathy for these people. We can easily sit here, already being Canadian, by birth or by immigration and pass judgment on whether these people should be allowed in, but unless you've walked a mile in their shoes, there's not really much to be said.

[tsat]

Dey took er Jerbs!

http://www.fearla.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/they-took-our-jobs.jpg

[ever1221]

I don't get this move. Bring in unskilled immigrants and people complain, bring in skilled immigrants and people complain. Why **** over the ones who try to come here legally, especially in favour of those who applied after them? This will just drive even more skilled labour to the US, Europe, Japan, and Australia.

Hell, bring in no immigrants and people complain about being taxed to death to support the boomers. What the hell does everyone want?

to sum it up:

bring in rich=complain
bring in poor=complain
bring in educated=complain
bring in skilled=complain
bring in immigrants=complain
dont bring in immigrants=complain

and all these complains are by the same type of ppl.

[rameen]

something had to be done.but looks like they took the drastic option

[Xpwmata]

In theory, the process for economic immigrants should be dynamic, constantly changing based on the needs of Canada. There was a time when Canada needed unskilled labour, similarly, there was a time when Canada needed educated skilled labour. The most recent immigration push is now to bring in 'Entrepreneurs'.

Honestly speaking, does Canada need Teachers, Chemists, and Engineers right now? The economic climate has changed drastically since 2006, fields that were once in-demand for workers are now either over-saturated with applicants (Teachers, Chemists, Engineers) or dead (Manufacturing). Right now Canada needs people with capital to create jobs and industry, unfortunately there is no incentive for these type of people to come here.

Immigrants, just like existing Canadians are victims of the ever changing economic climate and job market.

[gman]

I must be missing something. Why not just stop accepting new applicants and start to clean up the queues? Processing the existing queue does not mean Canada has to accept all the old applicants.

[AV-Fishing]

Well ... the Canadian government does SUCK! In 2002 they pulled this ... but it didn't work ...

Our government seems to love to go back on their words ... so I'm not surprised.

[Piro21]

I must be missing something. Why not just stop accepting new applicants and start to clean up the queues? Processing the existing queue does not mean Canada has to accept all the old applicants.

Stupidity. They did something similar with how they killed the Katimavik program. Instead of just cutting off the source and not accepting anyone new this year, they just flat-out stopped support. All the kids that put off university or job applications because they were accepted are now up the creek without a paddle. With this program they could have just cut new applications and done a rush processing of the older ones, but instead they cut off people who have been patiently waiting for a legal acceptance for years in favour of those who walked in yesterday.

[r1lee]

to sum it up:

bring in rich=complain
bring in poor=complain
bring in educated=complain
bring in skilled=complain
bring in immigrants=complain
dont bring in immigrants=complain

and all these complains are by the same type of ppl.

We only allow people to come to this country illegally. Fresh off a boat cause they are supposedly "persecuted" back home.

We couldn't care less about the ones who try to do it legitly, those are the dreamers. They can keep on dreaming..

[peanutz]

Can someone explain the process of how the backlog built up and how others were able to jump that queue?

[ever1221]

We only allow people to come to this country illegally. Fresh off a boat cause they are supposedly "persecuted" back home.

We couldn't care less about the ones who try to do it legitly, those are the dreamers. They can keep on dreaming..

you think coming into canada illegally is that easy? Just thank God we are not in Europe. The good thing is that illegal immigrants have to take transit somewhere in europe, and thats where they get caught and their journey ends...the others that make it, you'd be surprised how much they risk their life for it.

[gman]

Can someone explain the process of how the backlog built up and how others were able to jump that queue?

Backlog built up because there were not enough staff to process the application.
Others could jump that queue because there are more than one queue.

e.g. Queue 1 for professional immigrant.
Queue 2 for family union.
Queue 3 for spouse.
Each foreign country can have its own set of queues. Say, applicant from UK (say applied in 2011) can be faster than applicant in China (say, applied in 2007).

How to jump? Canadian creates a new queue or changing the priority/quota of queues.

[hugh_da_man]

The people caught by the "backlog" are people we don't want anyways. They're people who won't qualify under newer rules and thus it's easier to just refund them and tell them to reapply knowing they'll never qualify.

Coming to Canada is not a right and none of the paper work ever guarantees that you'll be accepted. Putting off life decisions because you're waiting to get into Canada is stupid because you might not have been accepted anyways.

The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is why aren't we taking all the skilled people instead of the refugees. You gotta clear the backlog at some point but speed up the applications of the skilled workers and slow down the refugees.

[gman]

The people caught by the "backlog" are people we don't want anyways. They're people who won't qualify under newer rules and thus it's easier to just refund them and tell them to reapply knowing they'll never qualify.

Coming to Canada is not a right and none of the paper work ever guarantees that you'll be accepted. Putting off life decisions because you're waiting to get into Canada is stupid because you might not have been accepted anyways.

The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is why aren't we taking all the skilled people instead of the refugees. You gotta clear the backlog at some point but speed up the applications of the skilled workers and slow down the refugees.

However, it is not necessary the case. Those people may actually be qualified because the government has not even processed the application. If they did, they could reject those who are qualified under the new "standard". The government right now just rejects everything without even looking. All these people are just kicked out of the queue and are asked to line up again.

[hugh_da_man]

However, it is not necessary the case. Those people may actually be qualified because the government has not even processed the application. If they did, they could reject. The government right now just rejects everything without even looking. All these people are just kicked out of the queue and are asked to line up again.

You think they haven't processed any applicants from 2007 yet? I imagine it's more that these are the people who wouldn't meet the requirements after the changes in 2008 and thus they've been backlogged on purpose. As much as people want to believe that it's first come first served, it's not and I've seen it first hand.

They obviously know that these aren't good applicants or they wouldn't just throw out their applications and tell them to apply again. There is something fishy with what they're doing and my guess would be that they know these people won't qualify when they reapply otherwise they'd just go ahead and process the applications anyways. They don't want to let people in on pre-2008 rules I guess.

[Engi-Nir]

In theory, the process for economic immigrants should be dynamic, constantly changing based on the needs of Canada. There was a time when Canada needed unskilled labour, similarly, there was a time when Canada needed educated skilled labour. The most recent immigration push is now to bring in 'Entrepreneurs'.

Honestly speaking, does Canada need Teachers, Chemists, and Engineers right now? The economic climate has changed drastically since 2006, fields that were once in-demand for workers are now either over-saturated with applicants (Teachers, Chemists, Engineers) or dead (Manufacturing). Right now Canada needs people with capital to create jobs and industry, unfortunately there is no incentive for these type of people to come here.

Immigrants, just like existing Canadians are victims of the ever changing economic climate and job market.

Manufacturing is not dead, if it was, we would have crazy unemployment

people working in Ontario manufacturing: 780000 (http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/eng/workplaceskills/labour_market_information/bulletins/on/on-lmb-2011fall.pdf)
# of total employment in Ontario (over 25K salary) = 5.2 million

hence, 1 in 6 person works in manufacturing, from there is tickle down effect to all industries. Let's be real, we have no industry in canada, America is our daddy.

[KDSet]

Those don't sound like qualifications that are in demand. ***** move, nevertheless.

[gman]

You think they haven't processed any applicants from 2007 yet? I imagine it's more that these are the people who wouldn't meet the requirements after the changes in 2008 and thus they've been backlogged on purpose. As much as people want to believe that it's first come first served, it's not and I've seen it first hand.

They obviously know that these aren't good applicants or they wouldn't just throw out their applications and tell them to apply again. There is something fishy with what they're doing and my guess would be that they know these people won't qualify when they reapply otherwise they'd just go ahead and process the applications anyways. They don't want to let people in on pre-2008 rules I guess.

Depends on the queue, yes. There is quota of each queue. When the quota is filled, they don't work on the backlog of that queue. They do not have man power to process all the application. That is why there is backlog. There is no reason to keep anyone they want to reject. The problem is they don't have the man power to look at them and reject them. They have no idea those applicants are good or bad. They just cut them out without checking (that takes time) to "ease the backlog".

[Siskie]

I say too bad. The Canadian government should be helping the unemployed Canadians that elected them before helping immigrants. Besides that, Canada does need anymore teachers or engineers so their skills are not exactly in-demand as they say they are.

[gman]

I say too bad. The Canadian government should be helping the unemployed Canadians that elected them before helping immigrants. Besides that, Canada does need anymore teachers or engineers so their skills are not exactly in-demand as they say they are.

1. where is the "helping immigrants" come from regarding before and after the rule change?
2. does or does not.

[spike1128]

The people caught by the "backlog" are people we don't want anyways. They're people who won't qualify under newer rules and thus it's easier to just refund them and tell them to reapply knowing they'll never qualify.

Coming to Canada is not a right and none of the paper work ever guarantees that you'll be accepted. Putting off life decisions because you're waiting to get into Canada is stupid because you might not have been accepted anyways.

The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is why aren't we taking all the skilled people instead of the refugees. You gotta clear the backlog at some point but speed up the applications of the skilled workers and slow down the refugees.

+1. I agree with you on your first two points. The ones caught in the "backlogs" are people we don't need.

About slowing skilled workers / slow down refugees. Actually, we don't need skilled workers or refugees. The skilled labour coming from China and other 3rd world countries we don't need. They never had the communication skills to get the jobs that's required. So they will not get hired regardless of how their skill set match jobs. Not to mention they will drive down wages by accepting low pay to get into those jobs that we want.

Canada has always accept refugees out of compassion. When wars are not happening, we shouldn't take in many. There are a lot, and I mean tons of fake refugee claimant. Because Canada lost the appeal on the Singh case, we can justify not letting in any unless it's overturned. If you aren't Canadian or PR, they don't have rights under the charter of rights and freedom of Canada. No way can we be giving health care and other things to refugees before they are processed.

The best solution is to take in immigrants from Ireland and these English/French speaking countries that was caught up in the European financial crisis. They will be able to adapt better to Canada. They can have a higher chance of success of finding a job, thus pay taxes to support the retiring Boomers.

[at1212b]

Either way, for what ever reasons, looks like those immigrant applicants counted their chickens before they hatched.

They were, or should be fully aware of the process, and potential risks, and not to assume anything. Just because you put in a application, doesn't mean you get treated so special. I mean I can go and apply for so many things, but to think I will seriously be considered for them is pretty irresponsible.




Manufacturing is not dead, if it was, we would have crazy unemployment

people working in Ontario manufacturing: 780000 (http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/eng/workplaceskills/labour_market_information/bulletins/on/on-lmb-2011fall.pdf)
# of total employment in Ontario (over 25K salary) = 5.2 million

hence, 1 in 6 person works in manufacturing, from there is tickle down effect to all industries. Let's be real, we have no industry in canada, America is our daddy.


Not to get into some kind of stat war/argument, but that 780,000 figure likely includes manufacturing jobs that are paid below 25K. It would be more comparable to include manufacturing jobs paid 25K or higher which would lower that 780 K figure in relation to 5.2 mil.

http://financialpostopinion.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/picture-2.png?w=620

From an article in the NationalPost. It's not just the absolute number, which is hitting the 10% mark, but the trend and decline rate that is a worry.

[sandikosh]

I don't get this move. Bring in unskilled immigrants and people complain, bring in skilled immigrants and people complain. Why **** over the ones who try to come here legally, especially in favour of those who applied after them? This will just drive even more skilled labour to the US, Europe, Japan, and Australia.

Hell, bring in no immigrants and people complain about being taxed to death to support the boomers. What the hell does everyone want?

Everyone wants to eat a piece of the cake.

[paaji]

to sum it up:

bring in rich=complain
bring in poor=complain
bring in educated=complain
bring in skilled=complain
bring in immigrants=complain
dont bring in immigrants=complain

and all these complains are by the same type of ppl.

People born or raised in here = complain. What is your point?

The point these people are making is that they waited patiently for that many years only to be told we made the changes and you are not longer accepted.
They can't even apply again cause those categories are no longer available in new system.

I seen some people who applied 2 years or less already given visa to come here whereas people who are waiting for 5+ years gets nothing.

[siriuskao]

Some applicants said they are considering legal action against the government in a déjà vu of a 2002 class action lawsuit, which saw Ottawa lose after changing the immigration system to reduce the backlog.
Not here yet but already know how to work the system.


The Canadian Bar Association has struck a subcommittee to examine the proposed changes and investigate whether the government has the legal authority to stop processing the applications and have them refunded and returned.

with help, no doubt.

[No Frills]

When I read the headline on The Star this morning, I immediately thought of RFD OT...lol


In theory, the process f,or economic immigrants should be dynamic, constantly changing based on the needs of Canada. There was a time when Canada needed unskilled labour, similarly, there was a time when Canada needed educated skilled labour. The most recent immigration push is now to bring in 'Entrepreneurs'.

Honestly speaking, does Canada need Teachers, Chemists, and Engineers right now? The economic climate has changed drastically since 2006, fields that were once in-demand for workers are now either over-saturated with applicants (Teachers, Chemists, Engineers) or dead (Manufacturing). Right now Canada needs people with capital to create jobs and industry, unfortunately there is no incentive for these type of people to come here.

Immigrants, just like existing Canadians are victims of the ever changing economic climate and job market.

This is all true. When they applied those jobs were in-demand and now its too late.

[divx]

ah if only we can trade away people like Syne for some skilled foreigners who will appreciate working here.

[Syne]

You would burden the motherland with my uselessness? Not very patriotic of you, divx.

[divx]

You would burden the motherland with my uselessness? Not very patriotic of you, divx.

na, my loyalty is here, I hate the Chinese government with a passion.

[DrXenon]

Approximately half the world wants to move here; there are going to be a lot of disappointed folks. What they need to do is tune their admissions to current and projected labour demand. They destroyed the entire field of engineering by admitting hordes of foreigners to compete with domestic graduates, at the behest of business. There needs to be much more balance. Switzerland does fine without admitting the hordes; all we need to do is incentivize our women to have more babies and the CPP will be fine. There is no reason for us to be the number one importer of labour in the entire world on a per capita basis.

[divx]

Approximately half the world wants to move here; there are going to be a lot of disappointed folks. What they need to do is tune their admissions to current and projected labour demand. They destroyed the entire field of engineering by admitting hordes of foreigners to compete with domestic graduates, at the behest of business. There needs to be much more balance. Switzerland does fine without admitting the hordes; all we need to do is incentivize our women to have more babies and the CPP will be fine. There is no reason for us to be the number one importer of labour in the entire world on a per capita basis.

We already have baby benefits, child care benefits, tax deductions. We have a broken education system that is not very efficient at producing competent workers and it is really expensive to bring a baby to the working age. The most economical way is to import ready to work folks from outside the country, they would come in and pay taxes without us investing a penny in them prior.

[KDSet]

Approximately half the world wants to move here; there are going to be a lot of disappointed folks. What they need to do is tune their admissions to current and projected labour demand. They destroyed the entire field of engineering by admitting hordes of foreigners to compete with domestic graduates, at the behest of business. There needs to be much more balance. Switzerland does fine without admitting the hordes; all we need to do is incentivize our women to have more babies and the CPP will be fine. There is no reason for us to be the number one importer of labour in the entire world on a per capita basis.

I wish more domestics had applied to work as teachers during my college years (2007-2009), many of whom were foreign (Brit, Indian, and Chinese) engineers/physicists. The accents, ugh.

[dealguy2]

The plan is to make the immigration system much faster so people get an answer quickly which is much more fair for everyone. It definitely sucks to have your application shredded in the backlog but I'm not sure there was any other option. What do you do?

[bullionaire]

We already have baby benefits, child care benefits, tax deductions. We have a broken education system that is not very efficient at producing competent workers and it is really expensive to bring a baby to the working age. The most economical way is to import ready to work folks from outside the country, they would come in and pay taxes without us investing a penny in them prior.

But they will bring their parents and grand parents with them who are too old to work, but ready to run up hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills.

[particleman]

I agree, reunion immigration needs to be significantly toned down or eliminated, as does refugees.


But they will bring their parents and grand parents with them who are too old to work, but ready to run up hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills.

[divx]

I agree as well, there needs to be restriction on that to prevent abuse.

[paradigmGT3]

We need a new system whereby new immigrants are sent into unihabited lands, and are put into camps where they work as laborers building infrastructure and mining the materials needed for it. Basically a self sustaining community that is built from nothing other than from recent immigants. Furthermore there would be a clause stating that they could not move from the area for 15+ years and are not welcome to any social services for the first 10 years. If Canada truely wants to expand and grow into a powerful country, this would be the only way.

[no_username]

We need a new system whereby new immigrants are sent into unihabited lands, and are put into camps where they work as laborers building infrastructure and mining the materials needed for it. Basically a self sustaining community that is built from nothing other than from recent immigants. Furthermore there would be a clause stating that they could not move from the area for 15+ years and are not welcome to any social services for the first 10 years. If Canada truely wants to expand and grow into a powerful country, this would be the only way.

In addition, each worker should have to pay a set fee to have the privilege of working in these camps.

[Deadmau555]

Waited 12 years to become a Canadian Citizen, f#$^ off. I'm sick of seeing India and China getting priority.

[Hitman21]

I agree, reunion immigration needs to be significantly toned down or eliminated, as does refugees.

Agreed. The main problem with family reunification is that the relatives are older and cant work, if they were required to get private insurance and not allowed CPP/welfare or any other benefits it could satisfy both sides, either that or no family reunification.

[Bskll]

Agreed. The main problem with family reunification is that the relatives are older and cant work, if they were required to get private insurance and not allowed CPP/welfare or any other benefits it could satisfy both sides, either that or no family reunification.

relatives already have to have be paid by their sponsor for 10 years.

if a person decides to come here and bring a relative who is not going to work and has no money, that means they are effectively for half the wages and producing twice the value.

[divx]

relatives already have to have be paid by their sponsor for 10 years.

if a person decides to come here and bring a relative who is not going to work and has no money, that means they are effectively for half the wages and producing twice the value.

fair enough

[Hitman21]

relatives already have to have be paid by their sponsor for 10 years.

if a person decides to come here and bring a relative who is not going to work and has no money, that means they are effectively for half the wages and producing twice the value.

But that's not what happens since many of these immigrants are eligible for healthcare and other benefits upon arriving to Canada, I wouldn't have a problem with this if it came from the sponsor or if they didn't receive benefits.

[peanutz]

We need a new system whereby new immigrants are sent into unihabited lands, and are put into camps where they work as laborers building infrastructure and mining the materials needed for it. Basically a self sustaining community that is built from nothing other than from recent immigants. Furthermore there would be a clause stating that they could not move from the area for 15+ years and are not welcome to any social services for the first 10 years. If Canada truely wants to expand and grow into a powerful country, this would be the only way.


In addition, each worker should have to pay a set fee to have the privilege of working in these camps.
They should also have to donate an organ.

(while we are on the subject of draconian ways to exploit potential immigrants :D--I am kidding, which needs to be stated since I know some doofus is going to take me seriously and get righteously outraged)