Presto and ridiculous penalties

[crimsondr]

The other day I was taking the GO Train and tapped on at Milton, charged me $4.65. Later I forgot to tap off at Union. So next time I go to use the card it gives me an error and I have to go to customer service to fix it. They charge me $10 penalty because I didn't tap off and don't have a default trip set. How does that make any sense??? The maximum fee for a trip on the Milton line is maybe $7.xx. How do you justify charging me $10 when I already paid $4.65 originally!?!

[AV-Fishing]

It's because people are stupid at Presto ... they don't know what they are dealing with.

Did they ever do any research???

Look at the EasyCard ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EasyCard

Look at the Octopus Card ... http://www.octopus.com.hk/home/en/index.html

These two cards are linked with their respective transit systems ...

Can Presto along with the other incompetent Public Transit Systems in the GTA get with the program?? Or their really need to hire some smart asian people to do their simple jobs?

Pathetic! Low-grade rubbish in the GTA.

[WildWolf]

That is the wonderful thing about Presto, as everyone touts.

[rems]

You had two options on how to avoid that $10 fee. Either remember to tap off or set a default trip. You didnt do either. The $10 fee will probably help you remember next time.

[iEyeCaptain]

I find Presto very ridiculous for people who use GO train everyday (I would say a vast majority of GO train users use it twice everyday - to work and back)

Why would I switch to Presto and risk not remembering to tap in when I can buy a paper monthly pass and not need to worry?

The financial difference between the two is minimal.

Solution: allow users to puchase monthly passes on Presto. No need to tap in or out. No need to line up every month.

Such a simple solution...

[ji2o0k]

I find Presto very ridiculous for people who use GO train everyday (I would say a vast majority of GO train users use it twice everyday - to work and back)

Why would I switch to Presto and risk not remembering to tap in when I can buy a paper monthly pass and not need to worry?
The financial difference between the two is minimal.

Solution: allow users to puchase monthly passes on Presto. No need to tap in or out. No need to line up every month.
Such a simple solution...Bolded for emphasis...

I crunched the numbers and PRESTO does save me a few extra bucks....but the hassle of tapping on (just once when you have a default trip set) and the fact that I might forget, doesn't make it worth it....

And the fact that I need to line up in the morning or night to tap....come on...what is the incentive for the PRESTO over a paper monthly pass?

Nothing to me...PRESTO is more hassle actually...

[crimsondr]

I use it because I get off at different stations and work from home a couple days a week. So the variance in trips usually makes it worth it to use presto. Previously I would have multiple 10 rides for different trips.

But I fail to see how they justify a $10 penalty. It's not like I didn't tap on and got a free ride. I did tap on and they just don't know where I got off. But it's train, so there's a maximum. Why don't they charge me that instead of the blown up penalty?

[vero95]

Bolded for emphasis...

I crunched the numbers and PRESTO does save me a few extra bucks....but the hassle of tapping on (just once when you have a default trip set) and the fact that I might forget, doesn't make it worth it....

And the fact that I need to line up in the morning or night to tap....come on...what is the incentive for the PRESTO over a paper monthly pass?

Nothing to me...PRESTO is more hassle actually...

can you get a tax deduction with presto?

[rems]

I use it because I get off at different stations and work from home a couple days a week. So the variance in trips usually makes it worth it to use presto. Previously I would have multiple 10 rides for different trips.

But I fail to see how they justify a $10 penalty. It's not like I didn't tap on and got a free ride. I did tap on and they just don't know where I got off. But it's train, so there's a maximum. Why don't they charge me that instead of the blown up penalty?

Can you continue on to another line on that same tap or do you have to tap off then tap on again to board the other train?

can you get a tax deduction with presto?

yea you just have to take 32 one-way trips in a month

[DiceMan]

I use Presto for the Go train and sometimes Go bus. Before I got the default trip set, I forgot to tap off once but they never charged me any penalty; they just reconfigured the card with the correct tap off amount. I guess they gave me a break since it was the earlier days of Presto last year.

The three things I like about Presto are:


With the auto top-up, I never have to wait in line to buy a pass or tickets again.
With the default trip set, I only have to tap once (train, not buses). That's the same as punching a 10-ride ticket. And the Presto machine is more reliable than the ticket punching machine which sometimes rejects my tickets.
With Presto, I will never pay more than a monthly pass and often less if there are holidays that month. i.e. I don't have to decide wether to get a pass or 10-ride tickets each month.

[crimsondr]

Can you continue on to another line on that same tap or do you have to tap off then tap on again to board the other train?
That's a good question. I don't know.

Another stupid thing that's happened before is if I tap on at Milton. Then at Union I forget to tap off and instead tap on into the TTC it doesn't recognize that I got off at Union. Instead my card gets blocked and I pay a penalty again.

[DiceMan]

Can you continue on to another line on that same tap or do you have to tap off then tap on again to board the other train?

You would tap on at your boarding station and only tap off at your final destination station. I asked because I once had to just that. Of course, that's train to train only.

[aaronl3e7]

I have been charged a penalty on a GO bus before, but it was only like a dollar and something cents :confused: (I believe this was the maximum charge for the line).

[iEyeCaptain]

Bolded for emphasis...

I crunched the numbers and PRESTO does save me a few extra bucks....but the hassle of tapping on (just once when you have a default trip set) and the fact that I might forget, doesn't make it worth it....

And the fact that I need to line up in the morning or night to tap....come on...what is the incentive for the PRESTO over a paper monthly pass?

Nothing to me...PRESTO is more hassle actually...

I would save $5 a month if I switched to Presto. I treat that as a "no need to tap in/out" premium. :facepalm:


I use it because I get off at different stations and work from home a couple days a week. So the variance in trips usually makes it worth it to use presto. Previously I would have multiple 10 rides for different trips.

Good point. Presto is also better for those who get on/off at different stations all the time. But I would think (and I can be wrong!) that the majority of people will board on the same station and get off at Union everyday twice a day. Why not introduce a monthly pass onto the Presto card? From a noob systems/database perspective, wouldn't this be easier to build/track than a live-balance of cash like a debit card?

[aaronl3e7]

I would save $5 a month if I switched to Presto. I treat that as a "no need to tap in/out" premium. :facepalm:

Presto also has a built in discount program that kicks in after X amount of rides, did you factor that in? (not being snide, honest question)

[RealEst8]

just say Presto is a POS. When you have different transit systems all segregated (just like how municipalities are), there is no coordination whatsoever. In HK, the Octopus Card can be used on just about everything. Buses, minibuses, streetcars, subway, convenience stores, restaurants, etc. all support the Octopus card. There's no chance of that happening in Toronto that's for sure. There's too many greedy companies that won't agree on working together.

[ji2o0k]

I would save $5 a month if I switched to Presto. I treat that as a "no need to tap in/out" premium. :facepalm:
I would save $7......whooppdeeedooooo...

Presto also has a built in discount program that kicks in after X amount of rides, did you factor that in? (not being snide, honest question)Yup, here are my exact calculations (based on 39 trips on average that I make a month):

Trips
1 to 35 - $5.32 (discounted PRESTO fare) - 35x$5.32 = $186.16
36 to 40 - $0.72 (discounted PRESTO fare) - 4x$2.88 = $2.88

Total = $186.16 + $2.88 = $189.04

My monthly pass is $196

Savings = $196 - $189.04 = $6.96

I forget 1 time to tap off....$10 penalty....

Sure, I have to line-up once a month to get the paper monthly pass but I go about 7-10days before the end of the month and no problems with line-ups etc...

Beats having to tap on every morning.

However, I do think that PRESTO is good for people that get on different stations etc...and those that need to mix it up with the TTC as a ways to commute..

Just that there are a few improvements that can be made...a monthly PRESTO pass is one of them (i.e I tap on at the beginning of the month to charge the monthly fee....)

[gilboman]

just say Presto is a POS. When you have different transit systems all segregated (just like how municipalities are), there is no coordination whatsoever. In HK, the Octopus Card can be used on just about everything. Buses, minibuses, streetcars, subway, convenience stores, restaurants, etc. all support the Octopus card. There's no chance of that happening in Toronto that's for sure. There's too many greedy companies that won't agree on working together.

great..another HK transit thread. :facepalm:

[RealEst8]

great..another HK transit thread. :facepalm:

HK was just an example. Presto is trying to use the idea but they still fail. Seriously, Toronto is far from being a "world class city". They should stop advertising themselves as one.

[gilboman]

HK was just an example. Presto is trying to use the idea but they still fail. Seriously, Toronto is far from being a "world class city". They should stop advertising themselves as one.

Caging people and charging them is world class to you? or letting mainlanders piss and defecate on streets and inside plazas is world class?:cheesygri

There's pro's/con's to all cities. HKG is pretty crappy even with Octopus.. what good is Octopus if you live in a cage? :facepalm:

I love travelling and vacationing in HKG.. but to live there..anything under 35k HKD a month and you're roughing it. I don't delude myself, HKG is great and definitely worldclass, if you have $$, which is the same everywhere including Toronto. HKG is not worldclass if you have to take transit lol

[Keigotw]

I use Presto for the Go train and sometimes Go bus. Before I got the default trip set, I forgot to tap off once but they never charged me any penalty; they just reconfigured the card with the correct tap off amount. I guess they gave me a break since it was the earlier days of Presto last year.

The three things I like about Presto are:


With the auto top-up, I never have to wait in line to buy a pass or tickets again.
With the default trip set, I only have to tap once (train, not buses). That's the same as punching a 10-ride ticket. And the Presto machine is more reliable than the ticket punching machine which sometimes rejects my tickets.
With Presto, I will never pay more than a monthly pass and often less if there are holidays that month. i.e. I don't have to decide wether to get a pass or 10-ride tickets each month.

They charge you $1 Service fee, when you add more money to it online :!: :facepalm:

[crimsondr]

They charge you $1 Service fee, when you add more money to it online :!: :facepalm:

I've never been charged this fee.

[zerg00]

just say Presto is a POS. When you have different transit systems all segregated (just like how municipalities are), there is no coordination whatsoever. In HK, the Octopus Card can be used on just about everything. Buses, minibuses, streetcars, subway, convenience stores, restaurants, etc. all support the Octopus card. There's no chance of that happening in Toronto that's for sure. There's too many greedy companies that won't agree on working together.

when i went to visit my uncle in HK the octopus card was also able to be used as an access card into his condo.

[iEyeCaptain]

Presto also has a built in discount program that kicks in after X amount of rides, did you factor that in? (not being snide, honest question)

Yeap!

ji2o0k's calculation above is similar to mine.

A lady in my cabin last month forgot to tap off, was ticketed $100.

I know you can appeal, but the time and effort it takes... makes Presto a peice of crap if you use the same station everyday for all working days in a month.

[Insider]

I wasn't aware I had to tap off for GO bus (first time), went to Union the next day (rode the train without tapping on :facepalm:), all was fine, no penalty fee. :)

Will never forget to tap off again for bus trips.

[erniefu]

Presto is definitely an Accenture failed copy of the octopus card. GO transit should have bought an off the shelf smart card payment system but the Ontario Government had to design their own "Canadian" system and asked Accenture to build one from scratch:facepalm:. We would all be having smart cards today if the Ontario Government just used the ones from Asia instead.

[Keigotw]

They charge you $1 Service fee, when you add more money to it online :!: :facepalm:


I've never been charged this fee.

guess not on auto top-up
if you are not on auto top-up and just want to add more value into presto
they charge you $1 fee

[RealEst8]

Caging people and charging them is world class to you? or letting mainlanders piss and defecate on streets and inside plazas is world class?:cheesygri

There's pro's/con's to all cities. HKG is pretty crappy even with Octopus.. what good is Octopus if you live in a cage? :facepalm:

I love travelling and vacationing in HKG.. but to live there..anything under 35k HKD a month and you're roughing it. I don't delude myself, HKG is great and definitely worldclass, if you have $$, which is the same everywhere including Toronto. HKG is not worldclass if you have to take transit lol

we're talking about a transit system here, not the living conditions. You sure know how to jump off topic. This thread was about the pay system. How about you :facepalm: yourself? You think Toronto is worldclass? Lmao, they can't even support the incoming immigrants with this POS infrastructure. The whole point of a transit system is to provide more transportation options and to get people out of their cars. HK is the size of Toronto, and yet they have like 4x the population but at least they can sustain themselves better than Toronto. So lets look into the future when Toronto does reach something like 8 million people, i bet there still won't be any subway expansion by then.

[iEyeCaptain]

Let's try to keep this on topic, guys.

i.e. piling on about how crap Presto is.

[Keigotw]

If you have a default trip set.
Say one day you have a appointment which is closer to 2 stations before you set route. So you get off there
If you don't tap off, they won't know, but if you go and tap off will they charge you the lower fare or will they give you penalty for getting off your non set route?

[JayWang]

this happened to me once and i went in person to file a complaint with GO Transit (at union station) to request a refund of the fee ... and it was granted!

however it was my first time using the card so maybe that was a reason why? :o

might be too late now for you but if you are at union and have time to kill, why not line up and just ask? (just make up some story of how you weren't able to tap off, as opposed to just simply "forgetting")

[crimsondr]

If you have a default trip set.
Say one day you have a appointment which is closer to 2 stations before you set route. So you get off there
If you don't tap off, they won't know, but if you go and tap off will they charge you the lower fare or will they give you penalty for getting off your non set route?

If you have a default set and you get on at a default station then you have to override before tapping on. If you simply tap on at a default station and try to tap off at a non-default station, it will actually be a tap on at the non-default station... lol... does that make sense?

[AV-Fishing]

In Taipei ... if you swipe your EasyCard to ride the Metro (aka Subway, LRT) and you also need to take the bus and pay with the EasyCard ... the automatic discount is half the bus fare ...

Swiping in and out of stations is not an issue ... just look at all the electronic turnstiles (this was from a smaller station (non rush hour) ...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/TigerEROS/TAIPEI%20METRO/DSC_4080.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/TigerEROS/TAIPEI%20METRO/DSC04460.jpg

[rems]

In Taipei ... if you swipe your EasyCard to ride the Metro (aka Subway, LRT) and you also need to take the bus and pay with the EasyCard ... the automatic discount is half the bus fare ...

Swiping in and out of stations is not an issue ... just look at all the electronic turnstiles ...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/TigerEROS/TAIPEI%20METRO/DSC_4080.jpg

Presto still offers the discount between GO and municipal bus rides.
http://gotransitnlb.gotransit.com/public/en/fares/presto.aspx

[Keigotw]

If you have a default set and you get on at a default station then you have to override before tapping on. If you simply tap on at a default station and try to tap off at a non-default station, it will actually be a tap on at the non-default station... lol... does that make sense?

I see, if is like that then is stupid

[Needinghelp]

I like Presto for it's convenience to use on almost any transit line in the GTA, and you get discounts if you take GO coupled with another local transit system.

Like you, I work from home a few times a week, and whenever I don't drive to one of my offices (as they're located in different GTA cities), I can just use Presto on the transit lines without having to buy new tickets. Plus when I use the GO Train or Bus and combine it with the local transit system, then I get a huge discount on the local transit, as the system automatically calculates it.

I've only forgot to tap off a few times when I first got it, but now I never forget and never had a problem since. It's a great system and happy to use it whenever I need to.

[sillysimms]

guess not on auto top-up
if you are not on auto top-up and just want to add more value into presto
they charge you $1 fee

Is this new? I'm not on auto top-up and added money on the card and wasn't charged $1. This was last year and I've gone back to the 10 ride tickets.

There's no mention of this $1 fee anywhere on their site/info that I could find.

[crimsondr]

Is this new? I'm not on auto top-up and added money on the card and wasn't charged $1. This was last year and I've gone back to the 10 ride tickets.

There's no mention of this $1 fee anywhere on their site/info that I could find.

I topped up online on two cards and never had the $1 fee.

[icemasta]

Not familiar with Go Buses other than the handful of times I used them. Reading the site couldn't someone just set a default and just worry about tapping on considering you don't need to tap off so they never actually check where you get off regardless of where your default's get-off stop is?

[crimsondr]

Not familiar with Go Buses other than the handful of times I used them. Reading the site couldn't someone just set a default and just worry about tapping on considering you don't need to tap off so they never actually check where you get off regardless of where your default's get-off stop is?

If they check your card and you're not somewhere in between your default stops they will give you a ticket.

[sillysimms]

Not familiar with Go Buses other than the handful of times I used them. Reading the site couldn't someone just set a default and just worry about tapping on considering you don't need to tap off so they never actually check where you get off regardless of where your default's get-off stop is?

You can only set a default for trains. For the buses, you have to tap on and off.

[stealth]

The other day I was taking the GO Train and tapped on at Milton, charged me $4.65. Later I forgot to tap off at Union. So next time I go to use the card it gives me an error and I have to go to customer service to fix it. They charge me $10 penalty because I didn't tap off and don't have a default trip set. How does that make any sense??? The maximum fee for a trip on the Milton line is maybe $7.xx. How do you justify charging me $10 when I already paid $4.65 originally!?!

Seems like a fair penalty to me. Your hurried/careless "mistake" (although Im sure yours was an honest mistake, Im sure others would try and game the system if they could), wasted their time and resources. consider it the socialist equivalent to a speeding ticket :)

[flashy_mcflash]

Seems like a fair penalty to me. Your hurried/careless "mistake" (although Im sure yours was an honest mistake, Im sure others would try and game the system if they could), wasted their time and resources. consider it the socialist equivalent to a speeding ticket :)

That's my perspective too. How hard is it to remember to tap off when you exit the system? I bet after that fine, the OP will never make that mistake again, so it's an effective deterrent.

[crimsondr]

Seems like a fair penalty to me. Your hurried/careless "mistake" (although Im sure yours was an honest mistake, Im sure others would try and game the system if they could), wasted their time and resources. consider it the socialist equivalent to a speeding ticket :)

Originally I thought the $10 penalty was extreme since that's way above the max ride for the Milton line. But now people have made me aware you can jump lines. So that makes the $10 penalty justified in my opinion.

[twotterdhc6]

I see, if is like that then is stupid

Well you should be able to tell you're tapping on again from the information screen. All you need to do is press the "Cancel" button and tap to undo

[stealth]

Originally I thought the $10 penalty was extreme since that's way above the max ride for the Milton line. But now people have made me aware you can jump lines. So that makes the $10 penalty justified in my opinion.

Might want to edit your OP then to reflect your enlighttened outlook ;)

[mohitk]

Wow didn't realize I can use presto instead of TTC tokens too! Makes more sense than carrying (and losing!) tiny tokens.

[sillysimms]

Wow didn't realize I can use presto instead of TTC tokens too! Makes more sense than carrying (and losing!) tiny tokens.

As long as you are at a station that is equipped with it. Not all stations have it yet.

[king_george]

Best get used to Presto if you need to use GO. No schedule yet, but those cardboard passes will disappear incrementally along with the 10 ride tickets.

Say goodbye to monster lineups trying to buy the monthlies and to those ancient ticket machines (STI) in use now. They were cutting edge in 1982.:lol:

Soon all transactions will happen through the Presto POS.

I for one will cheer loudly once the cardboard is retired. :D

[philliplewis98]

Work is underway with the TTC to finalize funding/working requirements with the aim to have the PRESTO system completely in place on the TTC for the 2015 Pan Am/Para Pan Am Games.

It will take that long to procure, test and equip all vehicles and facilities with required PRESTO devices. Currently, the TTC has approved a total of 14 PRESTO-equipped subway stations.

The green box is the new PRESTO Smartcard readers. It will replace bus passes and bus tickets on the OC Transit
;)

[redkid]

in order to get tax free
do you need to ride 32 trips in 1 month every month ? or just the 1st month u get it ?

i heard of somebody got charged a penalty fee for using it after he had no $ left
but i thought they allow you 1 trip kind of like overdraft (i mean, you're paying them $6 for the card...)

the other thing i don't like is that you cannot tap it twice at the same station
ie if i want to pay for someone (like i could say lend a token to a friend who has none) i cannot pay for his fare w presto

[EPcjay]

in order to get tax free
do you need to ride 32 trips in 1 month every month ? or just the 1st month u get it ?

i heard of somebody got charged a penalty fee for using it after he had no $ left
but i thought they allow you 1 trip kind of like overdraft (i mean, you're paying them $6 for the card...)

the other thing i don't like is that you cannot tap it twice at the same station
ie if i want to pay for someone (like i could say lend a token to a friend who has none) i cannot pay for his fare w presto

Each month, you have to maintain 32 rides minimum

You can go overdraft, but it's not advisable. Once you overdraft, you have to go customer service to fix it, and they charge you a reactivation fee of some sort. For me, I just have autoload when it goes below 20 bux.

[BD006]

the other thing i don't like is that you cannot tap it twice at the same station ie if i want to pay for someone (like i could say lend a token to a friend who has none) i cannot pay for his fare w presto

LOL, of course you can't!

Once you reach 40 rides, it's free! Your friend could ride free for the entire month if that was allowed.

This isn't a credit/debit/gift/NFC card.

[DiceMan]

i heard of somebody got charged a penalty fee for using it after he had no $ left but i thought they allow you 1 trip kind of like overdraft (i mean, you're paying them $6 for the card...)

I've been overdrawn. Go allows for one trip after the card is in an overdrawn state (to at least allow you to get back home). There is a $0.25 overdraft charge.

[twotterdhc6]

in order to get tax free
do you need to ride 32 trips in 1 month every month ? or just the 1st month u get it ?


Transit passes are always tax free.

If you get 32 trips in any consecutive period of no more than 31 days (ie: it needs not be calendar months), you can claim the amount as credits on your income tax return.
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/whtsnw/tms/trnst-eng.html

[angekfire]

Ottawa is getting the PRESTO system implemented this summer. Sounds like it will be a lot simpler than the Toronto system. Sounds like you just tap on when you get on a bus and that's it. And they have the equivalent of a monthly pass option where it is just unlimited rides. They still haven't announced how the payment system will be, if you will be charged based on distance traveled or transfers, or if it will simply replace monthly passes and bus tickets.

[twotterdhc6]

All the local transit systems in the GTA require only a tap when boarding as well. Only rides on GO Transit require a tap off.

The Ottawa system will be implementing Presto Next Generation, which from what I read, should at last allow online period pass loading and setting concession types without physically visiting customer service. This new generation is supposed to support open payment options eventually, but that's probably further down the road...

[redkid]

it's easier to carry the presto card than tokens
and i like that i can fill it up online using CC
2bad it's only available at some stations, but i guess is worth to wait
having trouble getting to 32 transaction as i can only use it 1 way
and can't pay for person i travel with :(
surely beats having to pay cash or line up for metro pass tho

[LostInTruth]

Higher the penalty, the easier for you to learn the consequences.