McGuinty pays PC MPP to leave post, giving Liberals chance at de facto majority

[DearSummer]

Dalton McGuinty defends $188,000 paycheque for Elizabeth Witmer
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1172295--dalton-mcguinty-defends-188-000-paycheque-for-elizabeth-witmer?bn=1


Former MPP Elizabeth Witmer is “worth every single penny” of the $188,000 she’ll be paid as the new chair of the Workplace Safety Insurance Board, Premier Dalton McGuinty said Thursday.

Witmer stunned political observers last week when she left the Progressive Conservatives to take the job with the WSIB.

A Liberal victory could give McGuinty’s minority government a de facto majority.

The premier was clearly courting Witmer supporters in carefully crafted remarks.

“Elizabeth Witmer is one of those people who gives politics a good name,” he told reporters.

“She transcends partisanship,” added McGuinty, who had been the subject of some stinging attacks from her in the legislature’s daily question period.

Sometimes truth is strangert than fiction. Anybody else find this set of circumstances aligned a little too perfectly for it to be anything but a payoff for a chance at the seat?

[neutral]

I'm guessing this PCer saw nothing wrong with it, as she only holds an allegiance to the almighty dollar. This shouldn't surprise you at all.

[longitude]

Is PC MPP an RC?

[gilboman]

Dalton McGuinty defends $188,000 paycheque for Elizabeth Witmer
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1172295--dalton-mcguinty-defends-188-000-paycheque-for-elizabeth-witmer?bn=1





Sometimes truth is strangert than fiction. Anybody else find this set of circumstances aligned a little too perfectly for it to be anything but a payoff for a chance at the seat?

don't see what your problem is. Someone would've taken the post. She would've gotten a salary as a MPP anyways. Witmer's been a MPP for many years and she's been unhappy with the barking dog that's Hudak since the campaign.

I really don't see what you're barking at. If it was about buying her seat, he could've just gotten her to cross the floor by offering her a cabinet post. Much easier than this. Sometimes, you need to look before you bark..unless you're hudak. Then you bark at everyone and everything including the mirror

[flashy_mcflash]

Nothing illegal or untoward here. If Witmer wants to keep the Liberals from getting a majority, she can easily decline.

[DearSummer]

Nothing illegal or untoward here. If Witmer wants to keep the Liberals from getting a majority, she can easily decline.

She could. Or she could accept a cushy, highly-paid public service job as a bribe...

If this was a move by Harper, Hudak, or Ford...oh man you guys would be flipping.

[gilboman]

She could. Or she could accept a cushy, highly-paid public service job as a bribe...

If this was a move by Harper or Hudak...oh man you guys would be flipping.

huh? Harper allowed a convicted felon/fraudster to return and live in Canada notwithstanding his dumb on crime approach. Besides, Harper is onto bigger things than helping one friend at a time, he helps all his buddies out at the sametime. Like letting his staff upgrade from 4* to 5* hotels and limos in Europe, Let Mackay buy 35billion in jets and use military choppers as a personal fishing trip transport, have tony clement build million dollar gazebos in middle of nowhere.

You really think Harper has enough time to look after one pal at a time? He's much bigger than that

[neutral]

huh? Harper allowed a convicted felon/fraudster to return and live in Canada notwithstanding his dumb on crime approach. Besides, Harper is onto bigger things than helping one friend at a time, he helps all his buddies out at the sametime. Like letting his staff upgrade from 4* to 5* hotels and limos in Europe, Let Mackay buy 35billion in jets and use military choppers as a personal fishing trip transport, have tony clement build million dollar gazebos in middle of nowhere.

You really think Harper has enough time to look after one pal at a time? He's much bigger than that

Unbelievable. All the while pushing austerity for everyone else.

[flashy_mcflash]

She could. Or she could accept a cushy, highly-paid public service job as a bribe...

If this was a move by Harper, Hudak, or Ford...oh man you guys would be flipping.

Since you can apparently divine hypothetical reactions to hypothetical situations, you got any lottery picks for us? Holla.

[manmanny]

Dalton McGuinty defends $188,000 paycheque for Elizabeth Witmer
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1172295--dalton-mcguinty-defends-188-000-paycheque-for-elizabeth-witmer?bn=1





Sometimes truth is strangert than fiction. Anybody else find this set of circumstances aligned a little too perfectly for it to be anything but a payoff for a chance at the seat?

Hey this is politics. Its not the first time. It wont be last. Look like she is pissed at Hudak.

[BornRuff]

She could. Or she could accept a cushy, highly-paid public service job as a bribe...

If this was a move by Harper, Hudak, or Ford...oh man you guys would be flipping.

She is more than qualified for the job. There is absolutely no guarantee that they will win the seat.

If they had picked a Liberal, you would be complaining that they were giving the job to their buddies.

The former chair just retired, someone had to take his place, and now we have a person who is well respected by all parties and who has decades of experience at the helm. Nothing to see here.

[olssy]

It's always struck me as dishonest to see someone get elected to then resign for another job or worse yet, change parties without a new election in their riding.

[DearSummer]

Hey this is politics. Its not the first time. It wont be last. Look like she is pissed at Hudak.

She claimed it was purely a career move. Hard to argue with the large pay raise and job security...

[petah]

Maybe they'll have her fired after winning the seat. That would be a double whammy.

[r1lee]

With her background, she qualifies for the job. Was Dalton eyeing the idea that he can get majority? absolutely and good for him.

As long as there is nothing illegal to this, i don't see the problem.

I wouldn't turn down a $190k job either compared to a what a MPP makes.

[time space]

Witmer is highly respected on all sides of the house - that's why even though this was announced last week, we haven't heard any serious complaining from the usual pundits. Everyone knows she wouldn't make this decision lightly.

[gilboman]

It's always struck me as dishonest to see someone get elected to then resign for another job or worse yet, change parties without a new election in their riding.

how is it dishonest? are MPP's not allowed to change jobs or resign? Especially in Witmer's case when she's clearly dissatisfied with the fool they have for a leader in Hudak. If you have a idiot as your boss, wouldn't you jump ship/change jobs if you can?:facepalm: Not like we're paying them even after they resign.

[DearSummer]

how is it dishonest? are MPP's not allowed to change jobs or resign? Especially in Witmer's case when she's clearly dissatisfied with the fool they have for a leader in Hudak. If you have a idiot as your boss, wouldn't you jump ship/change jobs if you can?:facepalm: Not like we're paying them even after they resign.

She is entitled to change jobs. What is discorning to me is that McGuinty offered her this big pay raise to give him a very good shot at a majority. I'm sure there were many other capable people he could have offered the job for but instead he chose an MPP that would give him a shot at a majority. Coincidence? I think not.

Of course I'm wasting my breath because you don't have a political viewpoint except for:
Liberals = Right
Conservatives = Wrong

Try thinking for yourself every now and then.

[flashy_mcflash]

She is entitled to change jobs. What is discorning to me is that McGuinty offered her this big pay raise to give him a very good shot at a majority. I'm sure there were many other capable people he could have offered the job for but instead he chose an MPP that would give him a shot at a majority. Coincidence? I think not.

Of course I'm wasting my breath because you don't have a political viewpoint except for:
Liberals = Right
Conservatives = Wrong

Try thinking for yourself every now and then.

Hey genius, there's people of both right and left ideologies telling you you're being an alarmist, hysterical ninny up in this piece. Maybe you need to jack it down a bit.

[manmanny]

OP there is nothing wrong in creating this thread.

The timing is curious just after the NDP bailed out Daddy. And yes by absentia I might add.

Well played Dalton.

[r1lee]

She is entitled to change jobs. What is discorning to me is that McGuinty offered her this big pay raise to give him a very good shot at a majority. I'm sure there were many other capable people he could have offered the job for but instead he chose an MPP that would give him a shot at a majority. Coincidence? I think not.

Of course I'm wasting my breath because you don't have a political viewpoint except for:
Liberals = Right
Conservatives = Wrong

Try thinking for yourself every now and then.

The big pay raise that you state, is the pay that a job like that entails. So anyone who decides to take the job, will end up getting this "big pay raise". Or in some cases, a potential decline in pay.

Her background clearly qualifies her for the Position. It's not like he picked someone who had no clue on what they are doing. Did he target her specifically, knowing that her qualifications would be an easy "reason". Absolutely, but this is what Politics is all about.

Now if her riding decides to vote Liberal and give Dalton his majority. Then they deserve everything that Dalton decides to do.

Everyone should be concerned for their own well being. If the job guarantee's a better financial position for her and her family, then it would be stupid for her to turn it down.

It's smart politicking by Dalton, probalby the smartest thing he's ever done. Actually being voted in office a third time after countless broken promises and lies is probably the greatest thing he's ever achieved, oh and spending.

[sam123]

She is entitled to change jobs. What is discorning to me is that McGuinty offered her this big pay raise to give him a very good shot at a majority. I'm sure there were many other capable people he could have offered the job for but instead he chose an MPP that would give him a shot at a majority. Coincidence? I think not.

Of course I'm wasting my breath because you don't have a political viewpoint except for:
Liberals = Right
Conservatives = Wrong

Try thinking for yourself every now and then.

The report I heard was that previously, it was a 1/2 time job at $100 thou, now it's a full time position at a slight discount ;). Does it have to be full time, beats me. Dalton probably could have gotten a better deal. He'll just take it from the savings he's getting from the teachers or other unions he's pinching. Strange bedfellows anyone?

[r1lee]

The report I heard was that previously, it was a 1/2 time job at $100 thou, now it's a full time position at a slight discount ;). Does it have to be full time, beats me. Dalton probably could have gotten a better deal. He'll just take it from the savings he's getting from the teachers or other unions he's pinching. Strange bedfellows anyone?

what's another $80K+ on top of his spending. That'll dissapear.. no worries.

[vero95]

he paid her to leave the post and will pay to get this seat
it's not his money

[gilboman]

Try thinking for yourself every now and then.

This from you? you better clear saying this with Harpo first..or no more 5* hotels and limos for you and you're only going to get one gazebo.

That's the problem, if only the crazies would think.. Hudak doesn't think, he just barks, Ford is incapable of thinking, only shaking his fist with a drumstick. Harpo is the only one that does, but his thinking is to ensure nobody else catches on to him

[BornRuff]

She is entitled to change jobs. What is discorning to me is that McGuinty offered her this big pay raise to give him a very good shot at a majority. I'm sure there were many other capable people he could have offered the job for but instead he chose an MPP that would give him a shot at a majority. Coincidence? I think not.

Of course I'm wasting my breath because you don't have a political viewpoint except for:
Liberals = Right
Conservatives = Wrong

Try thinking for yourself every now and then.

What do you mean by saying that McGunity offered her a big pay raise? Are you saying that if they hired someone else for the job, they would not have paid them as much?

I'm interested in finding out where you think money was misused here? The last guy retired, the job was open, and he gave it to a qualified candidate at a rate of pay that appears to be completely in line with what you would expect for the position.

If anything, this saves us money, since there is nobody drawing a salary as the MPP for her riding for what could be as much as 6 months, saving the government 60 thousand in her salary alone, plus travel and office expenses, salary for her staff, etc.

[gilboman]

What do you mean by saying that McGunity offered her a big pay raise? Are you saying that if they hired someone else for the job, they would not have paid them as much?

I'm interested in finding out where you think money was misused here? The last guy retired, the job was open, and he gave it to a qualified candidate at a rate of pay that appears to be completely in line with what you would expect for the position.

If anything, this saves us money, since there is nobody drawing a salary as the MPP for her riding for what could be as much as 6 months, saving the government 60 thousand in her salary alone, plus travel and office expenses, salary for her staff, etc.

No!!!! you're thinking wrong!!! lol

[manmanny]

what's another $80K+ on top of his spending. That'll dissapear.. no worries.

Compared to Billions he wasted on ORNGE this is nothing. This was good deal for him.
Something like redflagdeals BST section.

[DearSummer]

What do you mean by saying that McGunity offered her a big pay raise? Are you saying that if they hired someone else for the job, they would not have paid them as much?

I'm interested in finding out where you think money was misused here? The last guy retired, the job was open, and he gave it to a qualified candidate at a rate of pay that appears to be completely in line with what you would expect for the position.

If anything, this saves us money, since there is nobody drawing a salary as the MPP for her riding for what could be as much as 6 months, saving the government 60 thousand in her salary alone, plus travel and office expenses, salary for her staff, etc.

He offered her a much higher salary than her MPP pay so obviously she is going to accept it...

I'm not saying the salary was wrong. I'm saying McGuinty clearly offered her the position to attempt to secure a majority. Even somebody as bias as you must realize this.

[r1lee]

Compared to Billions he wasted on ORNGE this is nothing. This was good deal for him.
Something like redflagdeals BST section.

lol bickering over $80k lol. ORNGE, eHealth, Samsung deal.. etc.. Going crazy over $80K lol.. :facepalm:

[BornRuff]

He offered her a much higher salary than her MPP pay so obviously she is going to accept it...

I'm not saying the salary was wrong. I'm saying McGuinty clearly offered her the position to attempt to secure a majority. Even somebody as bias as you must realize this.

Her salary last year was 120k. So now she makes 188k. With our tax rates in that bracket, that means she is going to take home a bit more than 30k more per year.

The extra money is certainly nice, but there are many many other considerations in taking a job like this.

I think you must realize that hiring a qualified candidate for a position isn't a bribe.

As was already mentioned, if he had offered her a cabinet post in exchange for crossing the floor, your characterization would be much more reasonable.

[manmanny]

lol bickering over $80k lol. ORNGE, eHealth, Samsung deal.. etc.. Going crazy over $80K lol.. :facepalm:

I thought the list is bigger than that. Oh well at least the cost to taxpayers is in Billions.
And she already said I deserved that pay. I mean this lady.

http://i.thestar.com/images/22/35/ceea788e48fd89d4cc9bff1ef31b.jpg

[DearSummer]

Her salary last year was 120k. So now she makes 188k. With our tax rates in that bracket, that means she is going to take home a bit more than 30k more per year.

The extra money is certainly nice, but there are many many other considerations in taking a job like this.

I think you must realize that hiring a qualified candidate for a position isn't a bribe.

As was already mentioned, if he had offered her a cabinet post in exchange for crossing the floor, your characterization would be much more reasonable.

I am not talking about the cost of this. It is a non-factor. I am simply saying McGuinty dangled a carrot in front of her in the form of a higher-paying, more secure job. It's an obvious career move for her that she wouldn't decline. I am also not debating that she is or isn't qualified.

I am simply saying McGuinty did this to try to secure a majority. This is plainly obvious. If you don't see the politics in this, you are hopeless.

[manmanny]

I am not talking about the cost of this. It is a non-factor. I am simply saying McGuinty dangled a carrot in front of her in the form of a higher-paying, more secure job. It's an obvious career move for her that she wouldn't decline. I am also not debating that she is or isn't qualified.

I am simply saying McGuinty did this to try to secure a majority. This is plainly obvious.

Its exactly same move he pulled for Commissioner Fantino so he will not compete against liberal candidate that time.

[neutral]

I am not talking about the cost of this. It is a non-factor. I am simply saying McGuinty dangled a carrot in front of her in the form of a higher-paying, more secure job. It's an obvious career move for her that she wouldn't decline. I am also not debating that she is or isn't qualified.

I am simply saying McGuinty did this to try to secure a majority. This is plainly obvious. If you don't see the politics in this, you are hopeless.

Yeah but what about her principles? How much would it take for you to post against your principles on this board?

[BornRuff]

I am not talking about the cost of this. It is a non-factor. I am simply saying McGuinty dangled a carrot in front of her in the form of a higher-paying, more secure job. It's an obvious career move for her that she wouldn't decline. I am also not debating that she is or isn't qualified.

I am simply saying McGuinty did this to try to secure a majority. This is plainly obvious. If you don't see the politics in this, you are hopeless.

Actually, that appeared to be the main thing you were talking about, since it is in bold in the first post.

[DearSummer]

Yeah but what about her principles? How much would it take for you to post against your principles on this board?

She's simply accepting a better job, not crossing the aisle or anything like that. I don't see how that goes against her principles?

[NorthYorker]

lol bickering over $80k lol. ORNGE, eHealth, Samsung deal.. etc.. Going crazy over $80K lol.. :facepalm: To put things in perspective, RFD right wing spend last couple of days kicking TTC leadership for 10K spent on cakes without appropriate documentation and protecting 35 bln F-35 contract. Pot, kettle, black, don't you think? If you ask me, both sides are guilty of that.

[neutral]

She's simply accepting a better job, not crossing the aisle or anything like that. I don't see how that goes against her principles?

So she doesn't see the implications that you do? Weird.

[DearSummer]

Actually, that appeared to be the main thing you were talking about, since it is in bold in the first post.

I bolded the title of the article as I always do when linking to them...

[DearSummer]

So she doesn't see the implications that you do? Weird.

I'm sure she does but she's putting her personal career path ahead of preventing the Liberal majority.

[neutral]

I'm sure she does but she's putting her personal career path ahead of preventing the Liberal majority.

Isn't that how your version of capitalism works? Wouldn't Friedman, Ayn Rand, and the rest of your heroes be proud? Are you turning into a left wing pinko all of a sudden?

[DearSummer]

Isn't that how your version of capitalism works? Wouldn't Friedman, Ayn Rand, and the rest of your heroes be proud? Are you turning into a left wing pinko all of a sudden?

I never said her decision was wrong...

[olssy]

how is it dishonest? are MPP's not allowed to change jobs or resign? Especially in Witmer's case when she's clearly dissatisfied with the fool they have for a leader in Hudak. If you have a idiot as your boss, wouldn't you jump ship/change jobs if you can?:facepalm: Not like we're paying them even after they resign.

I'm a bit of an idealist when it comes to elected public officials. I agree a person should be allowed to resign and dishonest is probably not the correct word but the voters voted for her for a full term and in my mind it's kind of like a contract. If you present yourself for public office you should commit to it for the term unless you have reasons you cannot represent your electors to the fullest of your capabilities. I know nothing about this woman and my opinion holds for all political parties, I find some MPs treat their position like any old job but I consider it to be more than a job.

[neutral]

I never said her decision was wrong...

Well ok then. Almost sounds like you were whining like a left winged pinko socialist in this thread because she pledged allegiance to the almighty dollar first and foremost. It wouldn't make sense to expect anything else from her or other freedom, free market lovin' folk on the right.

[vero95]

I'm a bit of an idealist when it comes to elected public officials. I agree a person should be allowed to resign and dishonest is probably not the correct word but the voters voted for her for a full term and in my mind it's kind of like a contract. If you present yourself for public office you should commit to it for the term unless you have reasons you cannot represent your electors to the fullest of your capabilities. I know nothing about this woman and my opinion holds for all political parties, I find some MPs treat their position like any old job but I consider it to be more than a job.

I agree. MPP is not like any job. I have little respect for her for doing it
that reminds me of belinda and her toying with politics

[peano]

Well I hope this results in a Liberal majority after the by election.

People in Ontario need to see Dalton in action one more time with a majority. They have somehow failed to realize he is costing each and every family thousands more per year in taxes. They can't seem to grasp that he is screwing them with ever increasing Hydro rates, Eco fees, HST on more and more items, Health Care premiums... etc.

Maybe after one more term they will figure it out. I personally don't care much since I have cut every single item I can to offset his huge tax grab.

[DearSummer]

Well I hope this results in a Liberal majority after the by election.

People in Ontario need to see Dalton in action one more time with a majority. They have somehow failed to realize he is costing each and every family thousands more per year in taxes. They can't seem to grasp that he is screwing them with ever increasing Hydro rates, Eco fees, HST on more and more items, Health Care premiums... etc.

Maybe after one more term they will figure it out. I personally don't care much since I have cut every single item I can to offset his huge tax grab.

If they haven't realized by now that McGuinty is stangling the life out of the Ontario economy and sending Ontario off a fiscal cliff, they never will. It couldn't be any more glaring.

[vero95]

If they haven't realized by now that McGuinty is stangling the life out of the Ontario economy and sending Ontario off a fiscal cliff, they never will. It couldn't be any more glaring.

I agree. and unions do not see debt as a threat to them

[NG]

Wow...I've almost forgotten seeing a non-conservative being astute at politics.

He's not that progressive but Dalton does keep the cons out of power. I'll give him that.

Here's hoping, after he secures his majority, he'll go for a fourth term.

[CDNPatriot]

Witmer has been a long serving Conservative member that I'm a fan of. She deserves this.

Dearsummer Milton Friedman whom you often post about would have agreed with her decision to take the job. It pays more. Money talks. And her job has no job security.

Let me guess, another tough day as an importer? Very quiet again I see. You must be an exceptional manager to manage all of those people in your business and still be able to post on here so much.

[vero95]

Witmer has been a long serving Conservative member that I'm a fan of. She deserves this.

Dearsummer Milton Friedman whom you often post about would have agreed with her decision to take the job. It pays more. Money talks. And her job has no job security.

Let me guess, another tough day as an importer? Very quiet again I see. You must be an exceptional manager to manage all of those people in your business and still be able to post on here so much.

we know money talks. therefore Dalton won the election
the problem is we do not have more money even debt money

[BornRuff]

If they haven't realized by now that McGuinty is stangling the life out of the Ontario economy and sending Ontario off a fiscal cliff, they never will. It couldn't be any more glaring.

I think all three of his victories have benefited a lot from people really disliking the PC option put forward.

The first time people were tired of the PCs. The second time they put forward John Tory, who is a very nice and intelligent guy, but a perpetual political loser who let the faith based schools issue define the entire campaign. This last time they put forward Hudak, who is way too unlikable for people outside of their right wing base.

The possibility was certainly there for the PCs to win the last election. Many people probably would have rather not voted for McGunity, but the PC option was not attractive enough to centrists.

[DearSummer]

I think all three of his victories have benefited a lot from people really disliking the PC option put forward.

The first time people were tired of the PCs. The second time they put forward John Tory, who is a very nice and intelligent guy, but a perpetual political loser who let the faith based schools issue define the entire campaign. This last time they put forward Hudak, who is way too unlikable for people outside of their right wing base.

The possibility was certainly there for the PCs to win the last election. Many people probably would have rather not voted for McGunity, but the PC option was not attractive enough to centrists.

Funny because I personally thought Hudak lost because he was way too much like McGuinty. Ontario was ripe for somebody with a real plan to get the province back on track but Hudak wanted to keep spending just like Dalton (although not as bad).

At least now McGuinty will be fully blamed for the mess that Ontario is in rather than it getting pinned on the guy who inherits this mess.

[peano]

If they haven't realized by now that McGuinty is stangling the life out of the Ontario economy and sending Ontario off a fiscal cliff, they never will. It couldn't be any more glaring.

I think most have not done the math. HST added over $1800 to my household bills. People have trouble thinking for themselves it seems, or just don't give a sh1t.

[CDNPatriot]

More like the distaste of Harris is so great that people still run away from the PC party.

You forgot to mention that ding bat Ernie Eves that ran and got creamed by McGuinty.

That 407 is taking 1 billion dollars a year from tax payers and giving it to the PC party friends in business. Taxpayers paid over $100 billion for it. PC business friends are making billions from it.

Dearsummer this thread should be locked. McGuinty did not pay PC MPP to leave post. Love how you twist the facts.


Funny because I personally thought Hudak lost because he was way too much like McGuinty. Ontario was ripe for somebody with a real plan to get the province back on track but Hudak wanted to keep spending just like Dalton (although not as bad).

At least now McGuinty will be fully blamed for the mess that Ontario is in rather than it getting pinned on the guy who inherits this mess.

[peano]

Hmmmm. 407 toll income versus millions in extra taxes due to HST. More millions in absurd Hydro rates. More millions in Health tax. More millions in Eco fees, etc..etc..

Selling the 407 was a mistake, no doubt, but it is minor compared to the devastation McGuinty is reeking on Ontario.

[vero95]

McGuinty made Ontario has not
that's how we are going to remember him pretty soon

[r1lee]

More like the distaste of Harris is so great that people still run away from the PC party.

You forgot to mention that ding bat Ernie Eves that ran and got creamed by McGuinty.

That 407 is taking 1 billion dollars a year from tax payers and giving it to the PC party friends in business. Taxpayers paid over $100 billion for it. PC business friends are making billions from it.

Dearsummer this thread should be locked. McGuinty did not pay PC MPP to leave post. Love how you twist the facts.

I would hardly say that EE is a ding bat. He's very intelligent but running after Harris was a mistake.

Let's not discuss what the Harris govt was required to do after what Rae and his Rae days did to this province. The problem we have here is, the left spends too much and the right has to come in and cut too much.

Even though I agree that selling the 407 was a mistake, but would it be where it is today if it was in the public's hand? I bet you there would be so much red tape, it would have probably only extended a few km's from its opening day. Also the 407 is taking its revenue from people who choose to use it. I don't choose to pay more taxes though.

It took us 10 years through survey's, environmental impact studies etc to get the 427 extended from hwy7 to zenway rd, a whopping 800m. It's going to take another 20-30years to get this to rutherford.

[r1lee]

Hmmmm. 407 toll income versus millions in extra taxes due to HST. More millions in absurd Hydro rates. More millions in Health tax. More millions in Eco fees, etc..etc..

Selling the 407 was a mistake, no doubt, but it is minor compared to the devastation McGuinty is reeking on Ontario.

The left doesn't talk about those little issues. They overlook them, if the conservatives did it, they would have a field day over it.

[BornRuff]

Hmmmm. 407 toll income versus millions in extra taxes due to HST. More millions in absurd Hydro rates. More millions in Health tax. More millions in Eco fees, etc..etc..

Selling the 407 was a mistake, no doubt, but it is minor compared to the devastation McGuinty is reeking on Ontario.

The government subsidizes our Hydro rates by many billions of dollars. If you had a government that wanted to cut spending, that could very easily lead to much higher hydro rates.

[BornRuff]

Funny because I personally thought Hudak lost because he was way too much like McGuinty. Ontario was ripe for somebody with a real plan to get the province back on track but Hudak wanted to keep spending just like Dalton (although not as bad).

At least now McGuinty will be fully blamed for the mess that Ontario is in rather than it getting pinned on the guy who inherits this mess.

Nobody would ever mistake Hudak for a Red Tory.

He was too far to the right to attract enough votes from the Liberals.

[DearSummer]

The government subsidizes our Hydro rates by many billions of dollars. If you had a government that wanted to cut spending, that could very easily lead to much higher hydro rates.

You're kidding about hydro, right? McGuinty is residing over the biggest blunder in energy policy I have ever heard of.


Average Ontario household power rates will be the highest in North America except for Prince Edward Island by the end of 2013. The pace of Ontario’s rate increases will pick up in 2014 due to commitments already locked in. With power rates in the U.S. trending downward, Ontario’s lead is going to widen.

The Ontario Government’s Long Term Energy Plan (LTEP) issued in the fall of 2010 forecasts that monthly residential costs would rise from $114 for a typical monthly usage of 800 kilowatt hours in 2010 to $167 for the same quantity in 2015 — a 46% nominal increase or a 33% inflation-adjusted increase. To dampen political heat over these increases, the government later implemented a program it calls the Ontario Clean Energy Benefit, which transfers 10% of household bills from ratepayers to the provincial deficit.

Although the McGuinty government claims that its energy program is promoting the interests of future generations, the government focuses on cost-concealment measures that shift costs onto future ratepayers and taxpayers. On top of the Ontario Clean Energy Benefit, other examples include government directives to Crown energy utilities limiting their cost recovery. Another example is taxpayer-backed subsidies for Northern Ontario consumers, large and small.

Ontario is in the midst of a policy-created power crisis of profound significance to the future of the provincial economy. In 2009, average Ontario household power rates blew past the U.S. average. In 2010, Ontario rates exceeded California’s. By late 2013, Ontario’s residential rates will exceed the highest rates in the contiguous U.S. states and Alaska. By then Ontario will only need to beat P.E.I. to take the North American lead.
http://opinion.financialpost.com/2012/02/29/the-shocking-truth/

It's absolutely hilarious that you would defend McGuinty on energy of all things... :lol:

[peano]

And McGuinty just raised hydro rates again! I think this is the third time in a year. Along with TOU, we are paying nearly double for electricity........ plus HST of course.

[BornRuff]

You're kidding about hydro, right? McGuinty is residing over the biggest blunder in energy policy I have ever heard of.




http://opinion.financialpost.com/2012/02/29/the-shocking-truth/

It's absolutely hilarious that you would defend McGuinty on energy of all things... :lol:

When did I defend anything about McGunity's energy plan?

I stated the simple fact that the government subsidizes our energy costs billions of dollars every year. One estimate I found was that it was 8 billion per year.

A government interested in cutting costs could easily stop this massive subsidy to balance the budget.

[DearSummer]

When did I defend anything about McGunity's energy plan?

I stated the simple fact that the government subsidizes our energy costs billions of dollars every year. One estimate I found was that it was 8 billion per year.

A government interested in cutting costs could easily stop this massive subsidy to balance the budget.

Or they could stop the cause of the high rates which make it necessary to subsidize it (and pass the cost onto future generations so we can have "cheap" power now)...

But just for the record, you think McGuinty's energy policy is a huge failure?

[BornRuff]

Or they could stop the cause of the high rates which make it necessary to subsidize it (and pass the cost onto future generations so we can have "cheap" power now)...

But just for the record, you think McGuinty's energy policy is a huge failure?

Lol, so anything that I don't talk about you can just put words in my mouth?

The subsidies are not in any way limited to the green energy plan.

[DearSummer]

Lol, so anything that I don't talk about you can just put words in my mouth?

The subsidies are not in any way limited to the green energy plan.

Way to avoid the question. Although if I was somebody who just blindly supported everything Liberals do, I certainly wouldn't want to talk about energy policy.

[BornRuff]

Way to avoid the question. Although if I was somebody who just blindly supported everything Liberals do, I certainly wouldn't want to talk about energy policy.

That was more of a statement than a question.

I don't know enough about the green energy plan to really form an opinion at this point. It is not something I have looked into recently, which is why I did not post about it.

[r1lee]

The government subsidizes our Hydro rates by many billions of dollars. If you had a government that wanted to cut spending, that could very easily lead to much higher hydro rates.

our hydro is subsidized because we pay such a high amount per kilowatt vs anyone else in NA. Your question should lead to, why are we paying such high rates?

A $7B deal to Samsung for wind turbines? how much energy is that going to produce? Let's not even get into how that deal even went down. Didn't go to tender or anything. Dalton just signed on the doted line. Not his money..

[r1lee]

That was more of a statement than a question.

I don't know enough about the green energy plan to really form an opinion at this point. It is not something I have looked into recently, which is why I did not post about it.

you should make yourself known to the plan. You seem to defend everything else this liberal gov't has done. It's your tax dollars going to waste, yet again and you have no clue? lol

[BornRuff]

you should make yourself known to the plan. You seem to defend everything else this liberal gov't has done. It's your tax dollars going to waste, yet again and you have no clue? lol

Anyone who claims to know everything about something as complicated as the Ontario Government off the top of their head is simply wrong.

I will take your advice and look into it when I get time though.

[CDNPatriot]

McGuinty has a vision. Develop infrastructure and develop new technologies that is going to get Ontario out of these service jobs.

He has a vision where he is investing in the future.

Ford/Harper are "let's cut" simpletons. Do you think if Apple "just kept cutting" in the early 90s rather than investing, they would even exist today? Thought you were all for running government like a business.


our hydro is subsidized because we pay such a high amount per kilowatt vs anyone else in NA. Your question should lead to, why are we paying such high rates?

A $7B deal to Samsung for wind turbines? how much energy is that going to produce? Let's not even get into how that deal even went down. Didn't go to tender or anything. Dalton just signed on the doted line. Not his money..

[CDNPatriot]

Private sector did nothing for the 407. They were very good at overcharging people. Many stories about it on Silverman helps and the Toronto Star.

The problem is that the PC Party sold it to their friends. We paid over 100 billion for this revenue generating machine. Instead we gave it away for peanuts and now have an 1 billion dollars less in tax revenues.

People complain about taxes but that 1 billion dollars a year would have come in handy. Over the course of the lease the company will have made over 100 billion with it.


Even though I agree that selling the 407 was a mistake, but would it be where it is today if it was in the public's hand? I bet you there would be so much red tape, it would have probably only extended a few km's from its opening day. Also the 407 is taking its revenue from people who choose to use it. I don't choose to pay more taxes though.

It took us 10 years through survey's, environmental impact studies etc to get the 427 extended from hwy7 to zenway rd, a whopping 800m. It's going to take another 20-30years to get this to rutherford.

[CDNPatriot]

Okay Dearsummer so you obviously understand that she was offerred a job.

So what's with the misleading thread title that McGunity paid her to leave her post?

Time to close this Dearsummer political flame bait thread.

Go run your busy company where you employ all those people you say you do rather than posting on RFD all day.


I am not talking about the cost of this. It is a non-factor. I am simply saying McGuinty dangled a carrot in front of her in the form of a higher-paying, more secure job. It's an obvious career move for her that she wouldn't decline. I am also not debating that she is or isn't qualified.

I am simply saying McGuinty did this to try to secure a majority. This is plainly obvious. If you don't see the politics in this, you are hopeless.

[gilboman]

our hydro is subsidized because we pay such a high amount per kilowatt vs anyone else in NA. Your question should lead to, why are we paying such high rates?

A $7B deal to Samsung for wind turbines? how much energy is that going to produce? Let's not even get into how that deal even went down. Didn't go to tender or anything. Dalton just signed on the doted line. Not his money..

he was following standard conservative procurement process on that one. You are right about not being his money , that's why the cons like to spend money and screw everybody. But I'm a bit perplexed.. Dalton was stupid, should've chose his buddies companies to benefit and not some korean high tech company. He didin't even get any personal gain from it..idiot... he should study the con's more and get personal gain.

[gilboman]

Hmmmm. 407 toll income versus millions in extra taxes due to HST. More millions in absurd Hydro rates. More millions in Health tax. More millions in Eco fees, etc..etc..

Selling the 407 was a mistake, no doubt, but it is minor compared to the devastation McGuinty is reeking on Ontario.

did you know the HST was the con's idea? lol

must be sad to be you to be so confused.. I hope they take good care of you in your hospice with such dementia

[NG]

McGuinty made Ontario has not
that's how we are going to remember him pretty soon

They why'd he just get re-elected?


Nobody would ever mistake Hudak for a Red Tory.

He was too far to the right to attract enough votes from the Liberals.

Yep

http://thenewdemocrat.ca/files/2011/08/harris_hudak1.jpeg
http://thenewdemocrat.ca/files/2011/08/harris_hudak1.jpeg

[vero95]

did you know the HST was the con's idea? lol

must be sad to be you to be so confused.. I hope they take good care of you in your hospice with such dementia

but Dalton did not have to accept it, no?
he could also spare the tax on gas, no? in BC, they do not pay the full HST on gas
so Dalton introduced an additional tax on people and lefties blame cons for that? :facepalm:

[vero95]

They why'd he just get re-elected?



socialists have been at power in Greece for even longer :facepalm:
people do not think about debt when voting. people vote for the one who promises them more money

[gilboman]

but Dalton did not have to accept it, no?
he could also spare the tax on gas, no? in BC, they do not pay the full HST on gas
so Dalton introduced an additional tax on people and lefties blame cons for that? :facepalm:

Nope... I'm tired of NDPers like you who want me to subsidize lazy people like you. Why should I subsidize your irresponsible use of utilities, driving gas guzzlers and so forth? I use very little utilities in terms of hydro, water, natural gas and gasoline, yet I was subsidizing people like you who were abusing it. Now with HST, you use more, you are taxed more while I use less and pay less. Much more fair

Stop being feeling so entitled that you want me to subsidize you. Bring up a socialist paradise like BC as your example? Go move to North Korea if you want that kind of gov't. I don't want to subsidize you and your kind, I work hard and save and live frugal, yet you go spend like there's no tommorow and you expect me to subsidize you??? And when it's taken away and you are charged according to what you use like HST you have the nerve to whine?

[r1lee]

he was following standard conservative procurement process on that one. You are right about not being his money , that's why the cons like to spend money and screw everybody. But I'm a bit perplexed.. Dalton was stupid, should've chose his buddies companies to benefit and not some korean high tech company. He didin't even get any personal gain from it..idiot... he should study the con's more and get personal gain.

nice argument.. so basically what you're trying to say is that blame the conservatives for this too. gotcha.


did you know the HST was the con's idea? lol

must be sad to be you to be so confused.. I hope they take good care of you in your hospice with such dementia

lol, spinning it the right way there pal? Dalton could have said no. But he was so strapped for cash that he had to accept the deal. :facepalm: seriously... stop trying to put the blame on the PC for this to. But that doesn't surprise me. Can't seem to get the idea that the Liberals have spent over $100B+ more then they have ever received.. but keep on living the dream there. Run that type of financial strategy in your household and let me know how far you get.

[gilboman]

nice argument.. so basically what you're trying to say is that blame the conservatives for this too. gotcha.



lol, spinning it the right way there pal? Dalton could have said no. But he was so strapped for cash that he had to accept the deal. :facepalm: seriously... stop trying to put the blame on the PC for this to. But that doesn't surprise me. Can't seem to get the idea that the Liberals have spent over $100B+ more then they have ever received.. but keep on living the dream there. Run that type of financial strategy in your household and let me know how far you get.

You're the one freeloading by living in Kleinburg, I'm the one subsidizing you and you're telling me about financial strategy? Everybody else in Vaughan is subsidizing you. lol

But I guess it is good advice, I wouldn't mind leeching too.

[NG]

socialists have been at power in Greece for even longer :facepalm:
people do not think about debt when voting. people vote for the one who promises them more money

You're giving Charlie Sheen a bad name. The reply you quoted was in reply to YOU saying that McGuinty would be gone in the next election - despite all the reasons you listed being known before the last election


McGuinty made Ontario has not
that's how we are going to remember him pretty soon

Face it - Ontario will never elect a right wing government anytime soon.

If the PC's want to get elected they will have to castrate themselves so much they'll be nothing more than Liberals with a blue logo.

[r1lee]

McGuinty has a vision. Develop infrastructure and develop new technologies that is going to get Ontario out of these service jobs.

He has a vision where he is investing in the future.

Ford/Harper are "let's cut" simpletons. Do you think if Apple "just kept cutting" in the early 90s rather than investing, they would even exist today? Thought you were all for running government like a business.

Most user's on this forum understand the acceptance of let the " early adopters" bare the charge of the technology. When it becomes to a more reasonable price where its "economically feasible" then we go ahead with the project. Currently Wind Turbines have proven to not provide enough energy compared to their cost of construction.

What is McGuinty's vision?, tell me aside from the massive debt he has put Ontario in, what "vision" are you talking about? Considering it's already at $100b and potentially $150b more in debt he's putting us.

A leader in Green technology? All day kindergarden? i'm curious.

[ClubberLang]

She could. Or she could accept a cushy, highly-paid public service job as a bribe...

If this was a move by Harper, Hudak, or Ford...oh man you guys would be flipping.

what evidence do you have that running a massive operation like WSIB is somehow "cushy"?

Do you realize what someone in the private sector would make to be the head of an organization this large? :facepalm:188k is on the low range.

You need to get over yourself.

[rb]

Both are a disgrace - Witmar for standing in an election then resigning 7 months after - what changed so much , + she's basically been bribed

McGuinty (not for trying to woo a Tory I am sure the Tories would have done the same) , but for using our tax dollars to make a political appointment, she isn't qualified to run the WSIB , what does it say to the people who have worked there for years???

[hi-tech]

Harper paid a Liberal MP to cross the floor by doing EXACTLY the same thing. This isn't something new or interesting. Political appointments happen in politics.

[DearSummer]

what evidence do you have that running a massive operation like WSIB is somehow "cushy"?

Do you realize what someone in the private sector would make to be the head of an organization this large? :facepalm:188k is on the low range.

You need to get over yourself.

It's a far easier, more secure, and higher-paying job than that of an MPP. I was describing how it was an obvious career move for her and one McGuinty knew she wouldn't turn down.

[rb]

what evidence do you have that running a massive operation like WSIB is somehow "cushy"?

Do you realize what someone in the private sector would make to be the head of an organization this large? :facepalm:188k is on the low range.

You need to get over yourself.

Its actually quite cushy - its a monopoly , organisations have to buy it and pay the premiums charged , if you run a deficit easy to fix push up premiums. Her salary is $50k more then the last incumbent (from what I read)

[flashy_mcflash]

It's a far easier, more secure, and higher-paying job than that of an MPP.

What a load of crap. What exactly do you know about the responsibilities of either job based on your experience running what appears to be a bricks-and-mortar version of DealExtreme? Not a whole lot, from the looks of it.

[ShopperfiendTO]

Nope... I'm tired of NDPers like you who want me to subsidize lazy people like you. Why should I subsidize your irresponsible use of utilities, driving gas guzzlers and so forth? I use very little utilities in terms of hydro, water, natural gas and gasoline, yet I was subsidizing people like you who were abusing it. Now with HST, you use more, you are taxed more while I use less and pay less. Much more fair

Stop being feeling so entitled that you want me to subsidize you. Bring up a socialist paradise like BC as your example? Go move to North Korea if you want that kind of gov't. I don't want to subsidize you and your kind, I work hard and save and live frugal, yet you go spend like there's no tommorow and you expect me to subsidize you??? And when it's taken away and you are charged according to what you use like HST you have the nerve to whine?

LOL good one!:lol:

[DearSummer]

What a load of crap. What exactly do you know about the responsibilities of either job based on your experience running what appears to be a bricks-and-mortar version of DealExtreme? Not a whole lot, from the looks of it.

Pay: clearly the new position is better
Job security: clearly the new position is better (no elections!)
Difficulty: this is subjective. MPP is a very taxing job. Maybe this WSIB job that somebody was doing part-time previously is somehow more difficult, but probably not. Even if it is equally as demanding (doubtful), the pay and job security make it a no-brainer career move.

Also, you have no idea what business I run so I'm not sure why you are commenting on that.

[vero95]

Nope... I'm tired of NDPers like you who want me to subsidize lazy people like you. Why should I subsidize your irresponsible use of utilities, driving gas guzzlers and so forth? I use very little utilities in terms of hydro, water, natural gas and gasoline, yet I was subsidizing people like you who were abusing it. Now with HST, you use more, you are taxed more while I use less and pay less. Much more fair

Stop being feeling so entitled that you want me to subsidize you. Bring up a socialist paradise like BC as your example? Go move to North Korea if you want that kind of gov't. I don't want to subsidize you and your kind, I work hard and save and live frugal, yet you go spend like there's no tommorow and you expect me to subsidize you??? And when it's taken away and you are charged according to what you use like HST you have the nerve to whine?

LOL
there was no PST part on gas. when Dalton introduced HST, he did not remove the PST part from the tax on gas
this means he raised the tax. in BC, they remove the PST part to keep the old gas prices


Gasoline and diesel fuel, which had been exempt from the province’s 8% sales tax, will be subjected to the 13% HST, resulting in an eight cent jump at least.
hst-arriving-tomorrow-here-is-what-you-can-expect-in-ontario-and-b-c

you confused subsidizing gas with the new tax increase :facepalm:

[flashy_mcflash]

Difficulty: this is subjective. MPP is a very taxing job. Maybe this WSIB job that somebody was doing part-time previously is somehow more difficult, but probably not. Even if it is equally as demanding (doubtful), the pay and job security make it a no-brainer career move.


I will allow you pay, but job security is questionable because it didn't sound like Witmer's MPP seat was that highly contested. The rest of your post is the same idiot speculation you always put forth. There are MPP's that do literally nothing and others that work very hard, but you have zero insight into what the WSIB job entails. Certainly not enough to scream about how it's 'very easy'.



Also, you have no idea what business I run so I'm not sure why you are commenting on that.

Trap sprung. Oh, the irony of you whining about this when you're making absurd speculations about the difficulty of someone else's job, of which you have exactly ZERO knowledge.

[DearSummer]

I will allow you pay, but job security is questionable because it didn't sound like Witmer's MPP seat was that highly contested. The rest of your post is the same idiot speculation you always put forth. There are MPP's that do literally nothing and others that work very hard, but you have zero insight into what the WSIB job entails. Certainly not enough to scream about how it's 'very easy'.



Trap sprung. Oh, the irony of you whining about this when you're making absurd speculations about the difficulty of someone else's job, of which you have exactly ZERO knowledge.

She won by 3,500 votes in the last eleection. Liberals were leading in early polls I saw for the by-election. MPP is not nearly as secure as a job like heading up the WSIB.

To clarify: you don't think this was a no-brainer career move for her? A lot more money and job security. Most likely less time-consuming (she was not a do-nothing MPP) and stressful. It was done by a PART-TIME employee previously.

[flashy_mcflash]

She won by 3,500 votes in the last eleection. Liberals were leading in early polls I saw for the by-election. MPP is not nearly as secure as a job like heading up the WSIB.

To clarify: you don't think this was a no-brainer career move for her? A lot more money and job security. Most likely less time-consuming (she was not a do-nothing MPP) and stressful. It was done by a PART-TIME employee previously.

Of course it was - it's more money. My thoughts on the matter are WHO F'ING CARES. Hope that's clear enough for you.

Again, the rest of your post is idle, idiotic speculation with zero basis. As usual.

[ShopperfiendTO]

LOL
there was no PST part on gas. when Dalton introduced HST, he did not remove the PST part from the tax on gas
this means he raised the tax. in BC, they remove the PST part to keep the old gas prices


hst-arriving-tomorrow-here-is-what-you-can-expect-in-ontario-and-b-c

you confused subsidizing gas with the new tax increase :facepalm:

Not a good one.:(

Also, did you just post a pretend link as a source?:facepalm:

[vero95]

Not a good one.:(

Also, did you just post a pretend link as a source?:facepalm:

copy and past failed
http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/06/30/hst-arriving-tomorrow-here-is-what-you-can-expect-in-ontario-and-b-c/

[bcbgboy13]

"Liberals courting Tory and NDP MPPs to resign to force more by-elections" (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1173415--liberals-courting-tory-and-ndp-mpps-to-resign-to-force-more-by-elections?bn=1)


But the governing party is not content to put all its eggs in one basket.

That’s why other opposition MPPs are quietly being courted to force other by-elections in Toronto and GTA seats that the Liberals believe are winnable.

Because there’s no longer a pension plan for MPPs, some Tories and New Democrats are quite susceptible to such overtures.

Full-time appointments to agencies, boards or commissions as well as patronage jobs such as justice of the peace positions, which pay $119,000, are on offer to members, whose base salary is $116,500.

[CDNPatriot]

No elections for that TTC guy that Rob Ford fired.

We know what business. You said you were an importer. Then when people gave you heat for it suddenly you edited that post so that it doesn't show up on searches anymore.

If you are not an importer tell us what you do? We would love to hear about this efficient gravy free career of yours.


Pay: clearly the new position is better
Job security: clearly the new position is better (no elections!)
Difficulty: this is subjective. MPP is a very taxing job. Maybe this WSIB job that somebody was doing part-time previously is somehow more difficult, but probably not. Even if it is equally as demanding (doubtful), the pay and job security make it a no-brainer career move.

Also, you have no idea what business I run so I'm not sure why you are commenting on that.

[DearSummer]

"Liberals courting Tory and NDP MPPs to resign to force more by-elections" (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1173415--liberals-courting-tory-and-ndp-mpps-to-resign-to-force-more-by-elections?bn=1)

Doesn't matter how much evidence you post. The people still backing McGuinty at this point will still try to justify this somehow. :lol:

[NG]

Doesn't matter how much evidence you post. The people still backing McGuinty at this point will still try to justify this somehow. :lol:

Welcome to politics. If you don't like it you're welecome to move to North Korea.

[CDNPatriot]

That's the problem Dearsummer. You post no evidence what so ever. You start these threads here but always show up unprepared to back your bold statements. This thread is an example of how you make up lies. The title itself is a lie. You complain about me to RFD apparently. Guess you don't want me around for some reason. Tell you what. I will leave these forums forever, if you prove that you provide more evidence than me. I think last I checked for every tiny morsel of evidence you provide I provide ten in return.

Hope you aren't bad at your importing business as you are debating. You must be because you spend your days on here.


Doesn't matter how much evidence you post. The people still backing McGuinty at this point will still try to justify this somehow. :lol:

[vero95]

Welcome to politics. If you don't like it you're welecome to move to North Korea.

I somehow do not get why camrades blame politics on firing Gary if they have such good grasp of politics :facepalm:

[time space]

Doesn't matter how much evidence you post. The people still backing McGuinty at this point will still try to justify this somehow. :lol:

Even Mr. Hudak?!?


Decorum broke out in the Ontario legislature on Monday. Before Question Period began, PC leader Tim Hudak rose to request that all party leaders take the chance to offer tributes to Elizabeth Witmer, the 22-year PC MPP for Kitchener-Waterloo who resigned her seat on Friday to become Chair of the WSIB.

That consent granted, Mr. Hudak went on to recall how, as a rookie MPP in 1995, he learned a great deal from working alongside Ms. Witmer, then a Cabinet minister. “I’m sad to see her go,” he said. “Her accomplishments are legend.”

-via The National Post (http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/04/30/scott-stinson-ontario-parties-mostly-silent-on-possibility-mcguinty-could-regain-majority-in-byelection/)

[NG]

I somehow do not get why camrades blame politics on firing Gary if they have such good grasp of politics :facepalm:

Can someone translate this nonsense into something that makes sense?

[thetim]

Nothing illegal or untoward here. If Witmer wants to keep the Liberals from getting a majority, she can easily decline.

Don't know if mentioned later in the thread, but they won't actually have a majority. They'd had the same number of seats as the opposition. According to what I read, the Speaker will vote with the gov't on the first two readings, but then on the third will vote it down. So, they'll still need to co-operate.

Personally, I don't see why everyone in the gov't can't just work together to come up with better solutions all around, instead of being concerned with being in power, etc. Do the best job you can for everyone, it'd be better.

[zz000ter]

is pc mpp an rc?

rc?

[time space]

rc?

Remote Control.


(...as in from the Vatican.)

[zz000ter]

What does being an RC have to do with this?

Is there hatred of Conservatives and Catholics here?

I would ask the following question:

Who is the bigger scuzz? Witmer for letting her greed guide her or McGuinty for being so Machiavellian?

[vero95]

What does being an RC have to do with this?

Is there hatred of Conservatives and Catholics here?

I would ask the following question:

Who is the bigger scuzz? Witmer for letting her greed guide her or McGuinty for being so Machiavellian?

they both profited from this so you should know the answer
however, McGuinty did not jump off the wagon so I would blame her more. McGuinty would take 40% of thye guilt and Witmer 60% imo

[zz000ter]

My question was to longtitude - where he said "is pc mpp an rc?"

What does it matter if Witmer is RC or any or religion?
Is there an implication that RCs are more corrupt than any others?

[NG]

My question was to longtitude - where he said "is pc mpp an rc?"

What does it matter if Witmer is RC or any or religion?
Is there an implication that RCs are more corrupt than any others?

Christians have been taking over various conservative parties for a long time now - look at how the Republicans started going after birth control again.

Then there's other things like Gay Marriage that various conservative parties oppose. Even the federal Conservatives attacked Liberals for not being "Christian enough" (aka not conservative) and you can bet conservatives would certainly have a problem if the leader of the NDP or Liberals happened to be a Muslim one day.

[BornRuff]

Is this still going on?

There is nothing fishy about this. Someone took another job and stepped down from their roll as MPP. It is not the first time this has happened.

In the end, the people of that riding will still have the final word on who represents them, so there is nothing underhanded going on.

I certainly share people's anger when an elected official just crosses the floor, especially when it is to take a cabinet position. In this case, Dalton has left the power in the hands the voters, which is how it should be.

[CDNPatriot]

The problem is, that finding a strong Conservative candidate that is literate and doesn't have a record is hard to come by.


Is this still going on?

There is nothing fishy about this. Someone took another job and stepped down from their roll as MPP. It is not the first time this has happened.

In the end, the people of that riding will still have the final word on who represents them, so there is nothing underhanded going on.

I certainly share people's anger when an elected official just crosses the floor, especially when it is to take a cabinet position. In this case, Dalton has left the power in the hands the voters, which is how it should be.

[zz000ter]

The problem is, that finding a strong Conservative candidate that is literate and doesn't have a record is hard to come by.

Does Yellow Pages hate the Conservatives?
I can't believe this is not locked yet.

[NG]

Does Yellow Pages hate the Conservatives?
I can't believe this is not locked yet.

You conservatives love freedom of speech unless it doesn't support your agenda don't you?

DearSummer/Hitman post anti-Liberal threads on REGULAR basis yet your the second Con I've seen posting here implying some sort of attack/boycott campaign against YPG unless they lock a thread which winds up going after the conservatives instead.

[stuntman]

He offered her a much higher salary than her MPP pay so obviously she is going to accept it...

I'm not saying the salary was wrong. I'm saying McGuinty clearly offered her the position to attempt to secure a majority. Even somebody as bias as you must realize this.

Perhaps there should be some kind of regulation preventing a member of government being offered a post elsewhere for the hopes of political gain. I would likely support such a regulation.

would you?

[BornRuff]

Does Yellow Pages hate the Conservatives?
I can't believe this is not locked yet.

Why do you cry every time a opinion is expressed that is critical of a conservative figure or point of view?

Why didn't you demand that the thread be closed as soon as you saw the anti Liberal thread title?

Just accept that discussions are a two way street.

[NG]

Perhaps there should be some kind of regulation preventing a member of government being offered a post elsewhere for the hopes of political gain. I would likely support such a regulation.

would you?

There's no point. Look at the frauds Harper and co have been in and squeeze out of like the slimy scum they are.

Yet the RCMP just "happen" to release a damning report during the middle of an election to torpedo Paul Martin. A report that had nothing come from it after it did it's damage.

The cons buddies in the police and mainstream media will just find a way for a law like that to stick it to the Liberals while letting the Cons get away with murder.

[BornRuff]

Perhaps there should be some kind of regulation preventing a member of government being offered a post elsewhere for the hopes of political gain. I would likely support such a regulation.

would you?

What you describe there is pretty much the definition of the roll that the senate plays in our political system.

Attract a good fundraiser to your campaign by promising him a seat in the senate if he gets you elected. If you want an incumbent in a stronghold riding to step down or step aside so you can get a key person a seat, offer him a seat in the senate.

A law like you proposed would be impossible to enforce. You can't really prove that something is purely political, especially when the job is going to someone who is more than qualified for the job.

[stuntman]

There's no point. Look at the frauds Harper and co have been in and squeeze out of like the slimy scum they are.

Yet the RCMP just "happen" to release a damning report during the middle of an election to torpedo Paul Martin. A report that had nothing come from it after it did it's damage.

The cons buddies in the police and mainstream media will just find a way for a law like that to stick it to the Liberals while letting the Cons get away with murder.


What you describe there is pretty much the definition of the roll that the senate plays in our political system.

Attract a good fundraiser to your campaign by promising him a seat in the senate if he gets you elected. If you want an incumbent in a stronghold riding to step down or step aside so you can get a key person a seat, offer him a seat in the senate.

A law like you proposed would be impossible to enforce. You can't really prove that something is purely political, especially when the job is going to someone who is more than qualified for the job.

I agree....I was trying to push DSs buttons......this is what happens in the private sector.....DS seems to be squawking here but if it happened in the private sector it is OK.