Are you going to buy any Facebook?

[brunes]

Thought this would be a fun poll. I don't really consider it a "stock tip" since it is so highly publicized.

[Jungle]

No.

[Terrific_Deals2k8]

Eventually yes, but not at these overvalued prices. Maybe a straddle options strategy... Depending on the costs etc

[deal_with_singh]

Here's my strategy.

Invest every penny I can find from selling all my other stock, LOC's, Credit Card Cash Advance, etc. at the opening bell.

Sell within 10 minutes.

Get a 50-70% ROI. Pay back my credit, and invest what I made in PM's

[Mark77]

I'm sure it'll get added to the S&P500 eventually, so one of my US index funds in my retirement account will be forced to pick it up.

But, no, wouldn't voluntarily buy it with a 10' pole. And we just have to look at Apple to see how wickedly desperate people are to throw money at bubbles.

[brunes]

I'm sure it'll get added to the S&P500 eventually, so one of my US index funds in my retirement account will be forced to pick it up.

But, no, wouldn't voluntarily buy it with a 10' pole. And we just have to look at Apple to see how wickedly desperate people are to throw money at bubbles.

If you had bought AAPL a few years back though you would be sitting pretty right now, so I don't think they are the best example.

Personally I am going to throw some cash in at the bell and see where it goes. I suspect I could easily turn 10% - 20% before the day is even up.

[Typhoonz]

If you had bought AAPL a few years back though you would be sitting pretty right now, so I don't think they are the best example.

Personally I am going to throw some cash in at the bell and see where it goes. I suspect I could easily turn 10% - 20% before the day is even up.

Look at what happened to Rim... I would say the same thing could happen to Apple quite easily...

[niroopg]

Here's my strategy.

Invest every penny I can find from selling all my other stock, LOC's, Credit Card Cash Advance, etc. at the opening bell.

Sell within 10 minutes.

Get a 50-70% ROI. Pay back my credit, and invest what I made in PM's

You have access to IPO offering value?

Unless you are rich and well connected, you won't have access to those prices. You will pay the secondary offering value which will be at least 25% above IPO offering.

[niroopg]

If you had bought AAPL a few years back though you would be sitting pretty right now, so I don't think they are the best example.

Personally I am going to throw some cash in at the bell and see where it goes. I suspect I could easily turn 10% - 20% before the day is even up.

I can see that. And then just as quickly, come crashing down as people spree sell for return.

[deal_with_singh]

You have access to IPO offering value?

Unless you are rich and well connected, you won't have access to those prices. You will pay the secondary offering value which will be at least 25% above IPO offering.

Never mentioned IPO access. I plan to buy at the opening bell on secondary Markets....

Look at How LinkedIn performed.

IPO was at $50-60

Opened at $80

Within a few minutes peaked somewhere between $110-120

Easy 50% gain if you bought at the Open

Last week made a record high of $122.50


Look at YELP

IPO at $16-80

Opened at $20

Peaked at $24

Came back to $20

Peaked again at $24

Easy 20% gain on just that day TWICE!

Still trading at above IPO price.


My prediction:

IPO priced between $34-38 when finalized

Opens near $50, when I buy...

Within minutes will touch $80, when I sell. And may even peak at $100 before coming down.

I'm almost certain we'll see the valuation touch $200B at one point of the day.

[Mark77]

Look at what happened to Rim... I would say the same thing could happen to Apple quite easily...

More likely to happen to Facebook, IMHO. One bad string of privacy lapses, or some new fad, and the stock is toast. At least Apple has an infrastructure that people are, for better or worse, tied into.

[Typhoonz]

More likely to happen to Facebook, IMHO. One bad string of privacy lapses, or some new fad, and the stock is toast. At least Apple has an infrastructure that people are, for better or worse, tied into.

That's true. I was trying to prove to him that Rim was in a similar situation a couple years ago with most of the market share. Just because a company is worth $500+/share these days mean nothing. Especially in such a volatile sector.

[boyoflondon]

If you had bought AAPL a few years back though you would be sitting pretty right now, so I don't think they are the best example.


If you bought a lot of things few years ago, you'd be sitting on pretty cash right now.

Point with AAPL is that everyone and their dog was buying it after the earnings in January. People who have no idea what Apple is were buying it because it was all over the news and they were hearing about it every day for a week. All that hype held for a while before things turned south ... then people started selling, while some are still hanging on to their $600+ shares hoping ....

Same goes for FB. You'd be surprised how many people want to get in on this thing without knowing the fundamentals. I am sure there will be some momentum at first driving the price higher before it levels off and starts coming down.

[ZenOps]

This thread needs to mention Eduardo Saverin

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57432724-93/facebook-co-founder-renounces-u.s-citizenship-ahead-of-ipo/?tag=mncol;txt

"Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin has renounced his U.S. citizenship ahead of the company's IPO, Bloomberg reported -- a move likely calculated to help him dodge capital-gains taxes."

So, with 5% ownership of Facebook, he would have to pay taxes on a suggested $3.8 Billion if he remained a US citizen for the IPO.

[Paulfistinyourface]

More likely to happen to Facebook, IMHO. One bad string of privacy lapses, or some new fad, and the stock is toast. At least Apple has an infrastructure that people are, for better or worse, tied into.
That's pretty much what my advisor told me. He went on to say that when/if Apple fades it'll be a long slow decline with the occasional pothole/speedbump along the way.

[brunes]

Look at what happened to Rim... I would say the same thing could happen to Apple quite easily...

??? This comment makes no sense whatsoever. How is this relevant to the first week of a Facebook IPO.

[TheRed]

Here's my strategy.

Invest every penny I can find from selling all my other stock, LOC's, Credit Card Cash Advance, etc. at the opening bell.

Sell within 10 minutes.

Get a 50-70% ROI. Pay back my credit, and invest what I made in PM's

What if FB drops after the opening bell? You'd be in a hell lot of trouble...even a 1% drop means a lot of $$$.

I'm too thinking of putting almost everything to FB at the opening bell then sell within minutes. BUT if its going south and not up, then its gonna be troubling since you could easily lose $xxxx. But I'm having second thought...maybe just put a tiny bit.

What do you think of the risks?

[deal_with_singh]

What if FB drops after the opening bell? You'd be in a hell lot of trouble...even a 1% drop means a lot of $$$.

I'm too thinking of putting almost everything to FB at the opening bell then sell within minutes. BUT if its going south and not up, then its gonna be troubling since you could easily lose $xxxx. But I'm having second thought...maybe just put a tiny bit.

What do you think of the risks?

To be honest, I'm too young to care. If anything happens, I've got my whole life ahead of me. Older people however should not take my kind of risks.

I've also been trading for the last 4 years so generally get the sense of the kind of risk I'm getting myself into, and sometimes I do get screwed. I'm down almost 10k on gold miners.

However in my experience, very rarely does an IPO not go up after the opening bell. In my cases, I believe the only one I've seen do that was Zynga, which recouped a couple days later.

The basis for a stock price is all supply and demand. The demand behind facebook is simply to great to ignore.

The supply is 350 Million shares, give or take.

You have to look at the market.

Who wants these shares? Almost every investor out there.

People have been waiting on this IPO for years and it is the most talked about IPO since Google.

What happened to Google?

Opened at $100, went as high as about $110. Went down to about just over a $100 the next day, and the day after was at $140-$150.

At the time the Google IPO wasn't even as closely monitored, reported, analyzed, or simply talked about as the Facebook one has been.

The way I see it my odds are: 90% I come out with big money, 10% I lose a sh*t load

I like those odds, and sure beats trading pennys :P

[deal_with_singh]

??? This comment makes no sense whatsoever. How is this relevant to the first week of a Facebook IPO.

I wouldn't worry too much about what people on a "deal" forum say about stocks. Including myself. It's more than likely that people giving advice probably don't know what they're talking about themselves. I'd do some research on your own before listening to what anyone else says.

[Mark77]

Who wants these shares? Almost every investor out there.


http://mashable.com/2012/05/15/facebook-fad/

"A poll conducted by the Associated Press and CNBC found that 46% of respondents think Facebook will fade away as new platforms come along in the future. However, about 43% believe the site will likely be successful for the long haul."



People have been waiting on this IPO for years and it is the most talked about IPO since Google.


Sure, but not in a good way. I think people are tiring of the sort of trash that Goldman Sachs has unleashed on the world. After all, if its such a darn good investment, why the heck would Goldman be selling some of their shares?

[TheRed]

http://mashable.com/2012/05/15/facebook-fad/

"A poll conducted by the Associated Press and CNBC found that 46% of respondents think Facebook will fade away as new platforms come along in the future. However, about 43% believe the site will likely be successful for the long haul."



Sure, but not in a good way. I think people are tiring of the sort of trash that Goldman Sachs has unleashed on the world. After all, if its such a darn good investment, why the heck would Goldman be selling some of their shares?

Thats interesting pool and the fact that Goldman sold some shares. Though how much in % of their holdings is "some"? Has Goldman sold shares before prior to IPO?

[deal_with_singh]

Thats interesting pool and the fact that Goldman sold some shares. Though how much in % of their holdings is "some"? Has Goldman sold shares before prior to IPO?

From the same link I found another interesting video....

http://mashable.com/2012/04/30/facebook-ipo-explained/


If anything, the end would really make you buy in.

[Mark77]

From the same link I found another interesting video....
If anything, the end would really make you buy in.

P&G, Wal-Mart, etc., didn't IPO at 100X earnings.

[deal_with_singh]

P&G, Wal-Mart, etc., didn't IPO at 100X earnings.

LinkedIn did...It's currently at its highest....and the hype around facebook wasn't there at LinkedIn

[TheRed]

LinkedIn did...It's currently at its highest....and the hype around facebook wasn't there at LinkedIn

So you were saying because of the hype surrounding facebook, FB will go north faster compared to Linkedin who visited south few weeks after IPO?

[Kaitlyn]

Are you guys just going to put in a market order t like 9:29? That's scary... The price will fluctuate soooo much in seconds

[Terrific_Deals2k8]

Options kids, options! Less risk in some senses and doesn't require as much capital.

[dazz]

Where do you guys would buy FB stocks in the beginning. I thought those won't be available in the beginning for individuals. I would love to get some at the opening while they are low$ and then sell later in the day...
How can I do that?

[proteinJunkie]

what is the cheapesssst way to buy this stock ? quest trade?
scotia?
td?

currently i am with itrade

I want to buy, and realistically, why not.. if you have some income that you can use why not?
At the end of the day you could be up... and chances are after 5 minutes you can be up very high..

Facebook might be a fad, but in reality it is a strong social media platform that people keep using, sharing, uploading and referencing it.
I hear people at my work and other job sites talk about facebook all the time. and as well facebook just made another buy , by buying lightbox

[boyoflondon]

Are you guys just going to put in a market order t like 9:29? That's scary... The price will fluctuate soooo much in seconds

There are always Limit orders if you want to be 'safe'.

[deal_with_singh]

So you were saying because of the hype surrounding facebook, FB will go north faster compared to Linkedin who visited south few weeks after IPO?

Precisely. In the very short term anyways (I'm simply referring to minutes and hours here...what happens in the days following the friday open is beyond me). Once everyone who wants in is in, there will be selling, and the stock starts falling. When this will happen, no body can predict. You'll just have to time your exit accordingly and take profits as you see fit.

Personally I'll take out my higher risk credit sooner. I.e. the cash advance from my CC's...Maybe keep them at a 20-30% flip, then sell my LOC's at 50% and keep my own cash in it till say 60-70% gains. Just to protect myself.


Are you guys just going to put in a market order t like 9:29? That's scary... The price will fluctuate soooo much in seconds

IPO's don't tend to hit the open markets till around 10:00am. And you're not allowed putting in an order, market or limit until shares start flowing on the markets (at least with TD with past IPOs)

The fact that the price will fluctuate greatly in seconds is what makes this a nice stock to play :cheesygri

[Sniper001]

I'll be sitting this one out...... too crazy for me.
But I'll be sitting with the popcorn watching the chart to see what happens. Very curious.

[Mark77]

Some pretty convincing poll results....:lol:

[deal_with_singh]

I'll be sitting this one out...... too crazy for me.
But I'll be sitting with the popcorn watching the chart to see what happens. Very curious.

LOL join in! Use the proceeds to hoard some more PM's!

For me this is either go big or go home! :) Hopefully its the first one :cheesygri

[TheRed]

Options kids, options! Less risk in some senses and doesn't require as much capital.

How? There obviously won't be any option chain during the IPO! Will there be people writing options and etc the second FB hits the IPO or the secondary market? And it require more capital to exercise the option, unless you're just buying/selling the option itself.

[TheRed]

LOL join in! Use the proceeds to hoard some more PM's!

For me this is either go big or go home! :) Hopefully its the first one :cheesygri

Honestly how big will this spike be? I know a recent IPO (SPLK) had a 100% spike that triggers the circuit breaker in just 1 hour after the shares hit the secondary market.

If FB spike 100% and hit circuit breaker...well...its certainly go BIG for those who join in before the spike! :cheesygri

[deal_with_singh]

Honestly how big will this spike be? I know a recent IPO (SPLK) had a 100% spike that triggers the circuit breaker in just 1 hour after the shares hit the secondary market.

If FB spike 100% and hit circuit breaker...well...its certainly go BIG for those who join in before the spike! :cheesygri

I'm predicting more than a 100% gain within the first couple hours, but I won't be keeping any shares once it crosses about 60%.

Heres a list of some IPO's I've followed:
The open and high I'm listing is as of the first day of trading, all prices were obtained from tmx.com

Groupon ~ 12% (Open $28, high $31.14)
LinkedIn ~ 48% (Open $83, high $122.69)
YELP ~ 18% (Open $22.01, high $26)
Caesars Entertainment ~ 98% (Open $9.06, high $17.90)
General Motors ~ 8% (Open $33, high $36)
Zynga ~ 5% (Open $11, high $11.50...high post-launch $15.91 or 45% increase)


Basically my point is, you can almost never lose from an IPO as long as you time it right. And Facebook is going to be the motherload of all IPOs in my opinion

[Mark77]

Basically my point is, you can almost never lose from an IPO as long as you time it right. And Facebook is going to be the motherload of all IPOs in my opinion

Usually people incur the biggest losses on so-called 'never lose' propositions.

Do you really think the sharks at Goldman Sachs are selling this IPO at a majorly under-priced valuation? If its so darn valuable, why would they sell it?

I just read tonight, a rumour, that they're looking to increase the size of the offering. If its going to zoom up so quickly, why wouldn't the insiders just keep their shares instead of dumping them as fast as possible?

[TheRed]

Usually people incur the biggest losses on so-called 'never lose' propositions.

Do you really think the sharks at Goldman Sachs are selling this IPO at a majorly under-priced valuation? If its so darn valuable, why would they sell it?

I just read tonight, a rumour, that they're looking to increase the size of the offering. If its going to zoom up so quickly, why wouldn't the insiders just keep their shares instead of dumping them as fast as possible?

Where did u read this?

[TheRed]

I'm predicting more than a 100% gain within the first couple hours, but I won't be keeping any shares once it crosses about 60%.

Heres a list of some IPO's I've followed:
The open and high I'm listing is as of the first day of trading, all prices were obtained from tmx.com

Groupon ~ 12% (Open $28, high $31.14)
LinkedIn ~ 48% (Open $83, high $122.69)
YELP ~ 18% (Open $22.01, high $26)
Caesars Entertainment ~ 98% (Open $9.06, high $17.90)
General Motors ~ 8% (Open $33, high $36)
Zynga ~ 5% (Open $11, high $11.50...high post-launch $15.91 or 45% increase)


Basically my point is, you can almost never lose from an IPO as long as you time it right. And Facebook is going to be the motherload of all IPOs in my opinion

Did you make big profits off the IPO you listed/followed above?

[deal_with_singh]

Did you make big profits off the IPO you listed/followed above?

The ones I've invested in are: LinkedIn, Yelp, and Caesars

Linkedin:

Bought somewhere around $86-88, sold at low $100's...Believe it was close to $102-103

Yelp: bought at $22.50-$22.80, sold for $24ish

Caesars: bought at $10ish, sold for $14ish.

Unlike what I plan to do with the facebook IPO, I did not use an extra LOC's or credit, just used what cash I had to invest, which was still a sizeable amount on its own.

[niroopg]

Did you make big profits off the IPO you listed/followed above?

You're asking the guy who is taking cash advances from credit cards and hitting the LOCs for additional funds.

$100 billion IPO valuation is insane for a company that has $3.7 billion in gross revenue, $1 billion in net profit and no clear strategy for monetizing what they have in their membership base. Even corporations are now turning away from Facebook and looking for other ways to spend their social marketing budgets. Facebook has not been successful in monetizing to this point and organizations such as Goldman Sachs know it.

The valuation is absolutely insane. Google P/E is 18.5 , Nasdaq average is 19.5. Facebook is valued at >60x this years projected earnings and still 40 times project earnings at the end of the next fiscal year.

There is a TON of skepticism and doubt about this company and its ability to monetize what it has in a network of 900 million, which is only further exacerbated by the valuation.

[niroopg]

You're asking the guy who is taking cash advances from credit cards and hitting the LOCs for additional funds.

$100 billion IPO valuation is insane for a company that has $3.7 billion in gross revenue, $1 billion in net profit and no clear strategy for monetizing what they have in their membership base. Even corporations are now turning away from Facebook and looking for other ways to spend their social marketing budgets. Facebook has not been successful in monetizing to this point and organizations such as Goldman Sachs know it.

The valuation is absolutely insane. Google P/E is 18.5 , Nasdaq average is 19.5. Facebook is valued at >60x this years projected earnings and still 40 times project earnings at the end of the next fiscal year.

There is a TON of skepticism and doubt about this company and its ability to monetize what it has in a network of 900 million, which is only further exacerbated by the valuation.

As for those people hoping to capitalize on IPO volatility in the minutes to hours range, I sincerely hope you are successful. I value my health and money to be gambling (which is what this essentially is) - especially given the way this IPO has taken shape and the status of the company itself.

[TheRed]

How long until the insiders can sell their stocks? Hmm its unsettling that FB increased their offering size.

Anyhow, how do you guys plan to buy FB at opening bell? Watch for few seconds before putting in limit order? Certainly not market order?

[brunes]

Do you really think the sharks at Goldman Sachs are selling this IPO at a majorly under-priced valuation? If its so darn valuable, why would they sell it?


The problem is, the street is setting the price based on fundamentals - as they should, by law. The market nowadays, especially with tech companies like Facebook recently, is not doing that - they are setting the price based on speculation and emotion. That is why there is huge upside to this stock out of the gate. Is it a good long term play to buy it this week? HELL NO. Is it a good way to make a quick 25% or more? Hell yes.

[aviador]

FB is a fab pushed on people by manipulating mass media outlets. It's the Kim Kardassian of the NYSE!

Does anyone remember myspace? geocities? netscape? they all were valued as gold and ended up being sold off as junk...

FB has no patents, no business model exclusivity (there are competitors and regional players in Germany, France, China, etc.), no tangibles (computer farms lose their value in 2-3 years to almost zero resell value, data belong to users, advertisers are moody, etc.), no permanence (FB is a FAD, it can lose its appeal in an instant for example with a security breach, or a change on privacy policy, etc. Or just going out of fashion as everything fad.). And the list of warning bells can go on.

FB is a huge scam. And the first buyers are going to be the most burnt. It's gonna burst worse than the subprime housing market - at least there there was a tangible to recoup some of the investment -- the houses.

[Tharnax]

People have been waiting on this IPO for years and it is the most talked about IPO since Google.
What happened to Google?
Opened at $100, went as high as about $110. Went down to about just over a $100 the next day, and the day after was at $140-$150.
At the time the Google IPO wasn't even as closely monitored, reported, analyzed, or simply talked about as the Facebook one has been.
The way I see it my odds are: 90% I come out with big money, 10% I lose a sh*t load
I like those odds, and sure beats trading pennys :P

First of all Google was marketed differently for their IPO Google was sold through an online auction for the IPO @ $85 per share and Google was certainly a younger company and in Aug 2004, was less then 3 years after the tech bubble burst. However, your comments on it's "huge gain" in the following few days of trading is completely false.

GOOG:
Aug 19/2004 - Day of opening - Open: $100, High $104.06, Low $95.96, Close $100.34
Aug 20 - Open: $101.01, High: 109.08, Low: $100.50, close: $108.31
Aug 23 - Open: $110.75, High: $113.48, Low: 109.05, close: $109.40
Aug 24 - Open: $111.24, High: $111.60, Low: 103.57, close: $104.87

It didn't break the $140 mark until Oct 13/2004, it didn't break the $150 mark until Oct 19/2004. This is certainly impressive as a 50% gain in less then two months. But it certainly didn't happen in three days as you suggested.

Facebook is different, it's a older company and more established company. It's earnings @ $3.71 Billion in 2011 = $4 per Facebook users, assuming 900 million users are unique individuals, so if they can determine a way to increase ad revenue without losing it's user base even $1 per user that's a 25% increase in earnings. Facebook has just started tapping into the mobile advertising with targeted "sponsor stories" which makes it great for users bad for shareholders. However, if they ramp up those advertisements to increase revenues for shareholders it's bad for users, great for shareholders. There are other social media options available to users, push them too hard and they will quickly find alternatives. Timeline, for those who like it, is a security draw as who wants to loose all those "memories" which have been stored since Facebook began but is it worth the risk of a privacy violation? Another big question mark in Facebook's success. To increase revenue from marketers to appease shareholders you need to provide more user information. If you give too much information individuals will stop sharing information or leave. There is a lot of risk around this both from a shareholder perspective and a user perspective. And these two (feel free to disagree) go very much hand it hand.

I personally use FB, I have for many years. I've also said to myself and others when FB goes public/Mark Zuckerburg looses "control" of the company I would close my families FB accounts. May 18/2012 FB becomes publicly traded but Zuckerburg still maintains control with 55.8% of that only 31% are his, the others are own by shareholders who have an obligation to vote with him until such time as their shares are sold, so it's a tough call.

Also, keep in mind that FB originally planned to raise only $5 billion in Feb with it's IPO based on current shares being made available based on the latest news approximately $16 Billion worth of shares will be available which only 31% goes to the Facebook company the rest going back into early investors pockets, including Zuckerburg himself (his to pay his tax bill). The latest increase to sell 421.1 million shares from the original 337.4 million is 100x personal shareholder selling. Only 180 million shares are being sold by the company the other 241 million shares are being sold by current shareholders a 53% increase in the original declared amount. http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2012/05/16/facebook-ipo-shareholders-looking-to-cash-out-more/

This leads us to an earlier posters question about why would all these shareholders be selling so much stock if the expectation is it's going to climb to $100 per share as someone suggested. At $70 per share, FB would be valued at $200 Billion. That's above Google's current valuation and approximately as much as Microsoft. At $100 that's almost $300 Billion which makes it the third largest valued company in the world, all based on $4 per year earned from it's 900 Million users with no documented way to increase that number? I think people need to rethink where the share price is really going.

[deal_with_singh]

How long until the insiders can sell their stocks? Hmm its unsettling that FB increased their offering size.

Anyhow, how do you guys plan to buy FB at opening bell? Watch for few seconds before putting in limit order? Certainly not market order?

Why not a market order? It's the first few seconds you need to get in, if not you'll be left behind from the way I see it.


First of all Google was marketed differently for their IPO Google was sold through an online auction for the IPO @ $85 per share and Google was certainly a younger company and in Aug 2004, was less then 3 years after the tech bubble burst. However, your comments on it's "huge gain" in the following few days of trading is completely false.

GOOG:......

Might've misread the chart, and definitely was not trading when google launched! But at this point, I could care less about fundamentals, as its meaningless to the stock price when it opens, a week down the road once the hype is over, yes it goes back to fundamentals.

Let's see what happens friday :)

[red_skittles]

I too am going to borrow as much as I possibly can and maybe even sell some possessions to get in on this IPO. When everyone is saying its an easy 20% to 30% return and a sure thing you know you've got a winner. /s

[Tharnax]

Why not a market order? It's the first few seconds you need to get in, if not you'll be left behind from the way I see it.

Or left holding the bag! ;) I'm expecting a +/- 10% swing from opening price, so timing will be important. However, it's comments like yours and the one above me which has me constantly rethinking this just so much over hype and so few shares. I would guess institutional players for the most part will stay out let the retail fight over it and then accumulate it for their related ETFs, Mutual Funds, etc. over a period of time.



Might've misread the chart, and definitely was not trading when google launched! But at this point, I could care less about fundamentals, as its meaningless to the stock price when it opens, a week down the road once the hype is over, yes it goes back to fundamentals.

Yeah, just slightly!


Let's see what happens friday :)

Worst case it will be entertaining and we're certainly not going to see an IPO of this size/hype again for quite a while.

[boyoflondon]

I too am going to borrow as much as I possibly can and maybe even sell some possessions to get in on this IPO. When everyone is saying its an easy 20% to 30% return and a sure thing you know you've got a winner. /s

Don't even bother. Keep your stuff as you ain't getting in on the IPO.

[onlyhonestopinion]

I received the message below from RBC Direct Investing. Question now is, what should my Limit Order be?

Subject: Trading Advisory: Facebook (FB)
Date: 16 May 2012at11:36 AM EST

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please be advised that Facebook will begin trading on the Nasdaq exchange on Friday, May 18th. The exact time that Facebook will begin trading on Friday is yet to be determined. We will begin accepting limit orders for Facebook as of Thursday May 17th as of 4:01pm E.T. Orders submitted before this time will be rejected.

As per FINRA rule 5131(d)(4), RBC Direct Investing will not be accepting market orders for shares of a new issue prior to the commencement of trading such shares on the secondary market. Only limit orders will be accepted prior to shares trading on the secondary market.

This restriction is put in place to protect clients from receiving a price that is significantly higher than the price they expected to pay.

If you have any questions or concerns, please contact an investment services representative at 1-800-769-2560.

[niroopg]

I wish they had cameras on the trading floor - you could have a 24 hour segment on CNN lol.

[aviador]

I too am going to borrow as much as I possibly can and maybe even sell some possessions to get in on this IPO. When everyone is saying its an easy 20% to 30% return and a sure thing you know you've got a winner. /s

There's money to be made speculating during the first few minutes (hours?) of trading as naive buyers try to place their orders and the price is pushed up. A few bunch of whale speculators with fast and direct access to transactions will benefit from it buying early and selling short after as the price increases (ascending slope.) But, thousands of small frys with throttled access to transactions will be queing in online middle trader companies and will get their transactions too late to get any profit, buying high in the descent and selling low further in the descending slope.

And, to begin with FB is a marketing FAD like a bad movie. FB doesn't own patents, tangibles, sellable or leaseable business model, exclusive business model (there are sites like FB in France, Germany, China that are local and more popular), data (belong to users), tied advertisers (FB can fell from grace with advertisers and bye bye investment), etc.

Unless someone has a fast access to transactions to enter and leave at the appropriate moment, the risk of speculating is rather high.

FB is another version of myspace or geocities. For how much are those companies stocks traded now?

It reminds me of Spice & Wolf pyrite frenzy. Even anime gets it right.


Don't get stuck backing the next MySpace
We're in the midst of a huge social-media bubble, and as these stocks start popping, some will prove to be spectacular duds.
By Jim Cramer Jun 30, 2011 9:11AM

It's not who is the next E-Toys or Webvan, two of the most spectacular crash-and-burn dot-coms of a bygone era. It's who is the next MySpace, the social-media bomb that News Corp. (NWSA) paid $580 million for and has now reportedly sold for a mere $35 million in a hasty bid to get the darned thing off the balance sheet by the end of the quarter.

MySpace was all the rage at one point, before it was polluted by ads and superseded by super-slick Facebook. At the time News Corp. purchased MySpace, it was considered to be the coolest move by old media to capture the pizazz of new media.
....

http://money.msn.com/top-stocks/post.aspx?post=065ba2e6-a040-4b80-bd77-fff0c9517f22

[boyoflondon]

I received the message below from RBC Direct Investing. Question now is, what should my Limit Order be?



Whatever you feel comfortable paying.

[niroopg]

I received the message below from RBC Direct Investing. Question now is, what should my Limit Order be?

Subject: Trading Advisory: Facebook (FB)
Date: 16 May 2012at11:36 AM EST

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please be advised that Facebook will begin trading on the Nasdaq exchange on Friday, May 18th. The exact time that Facebook will begin trading on Friday is yet to be determined. We will begin accepting limit orders for Facebook as of Thursday May 17th as of 4:01pm E.T. Orders submitted before this time will be rejected.

As per FINRA rule 5131(d)(4), RBC Direct Investing will not be accepting market orders for shares of a new issue prior to the commencement of trading such shares on the secondary market. Only limit orders will be accepted prior to shares trading on the secondary market.

This restriction is put in place to protect clients from receiving a price that is significantly higher than the price they expected to pay.

If you have any questions or concerns, please contact an investment services representative at 1-800-769-2560.

If you aren't informed enough to know that answer for yourself and are asking on RFD, you shouldn't be buying.

[Madchester]

FB has no patents

Pretty sure FB's jumped on the patent buying bandwagon to protect itself from litigation.

http://techcrunch.com/2012/04/27/facebook-google-patents/

[TheRed]

There's money to be made speculating during the first few minutes (hours?) of trading as naive buyers try to place their orders and the price is pushed up. A few bunch of whale speculators with fast and direct access to transactions will benefit from it buying early and selling short after as the price increases (ascending slope.) But, thousands of small frys with throttled access to transactions will be queing in online middle trader companies and will get their transactions too late to get any profit, buying high in the descent and selling low further in the descending slope.

And, to begin with FB is a marketing FAD like a bad movie. FB doesn't own patents, tangibles, sellable or leaseable business model, exclusive business model (there are sites like FB in France, Germany, China that are local and more popular), data (belong to users), tied advertisers (FB can fell from grace with advertisers and bye bye investment), etc.

Unless someone has a fast access to transactions to enter and leave at the appropriate moment, the risk of speculating is rather high.

FB is another version of myspace or geocities. For how much are those companies stocks traded now?

It reminds me of Spice & Wolf pyrite frenzy. Even anime gets it right.



http://money.msn.com/top-stocks/post.aspx?post=065ba2e6-a040-4b80-bd77-fff0c9517f22

My broker usually filled my orders instantly, even for illiquid penny stocks sometimes. I'm with IB. Does IPO secondary makes it different with lags in order fulfillment/transactions?

[TheRed]

So what limit orders are you guys putting in?

[Sniper001]

I can't invest in a company that made the strategic decision to purchase Instagram for $1B... I just can't.
For those who want to "flip" this company on Friday.. there is still tremendous risk that the stock will plummet.

Facebook could very well plummet substantially on Friday before picking up days or weeks later. And at that point all the weak hands would have exited at the lows with fear that they would lose all their money (for those going big.)

[aviador]

Pretty sure FB's jumped on the patent buying bandwagon to protect itself from litigation.

http://techcrunch.com/2012/04/27/facebook-google-patents/

You have just partially proved my point. FB is a late me-too comer to social networking, blogging and advertisement. Their modus operandi is partially covered by other's companies patents. The most likely scenario is that FB has bought some patents to counter-suit (trolls rather than patents) and that most infringed patent companies are just waiting for FB to go public, to get a juicier settlement. IMHO.

[niroopg]

My broker usually filled my orders instantly, even for illiquid penny stocks sometimes. I'm with IB. Does IPO secondary makes it different with lags in order fulfillment/transactions?

Of course there is going to be a lag. The trading floor is going to be pure chaos. Unless you are a 1%er or insider, your broker is going to wait in queue.

[brunes]

You have just partially proved my point. FB is a late me-too comer to social networking, blogging and advertisement..
Er.. I think all can agree there is risk in buying FB on Friday, but this statement is just bat-guano insane. FB basically invented social networking, and they essentially own the whole space for casual users (LinkedIn owns it for professionals). The reason MySpace is worthless is BECAUSE of Facebook, not in spite of it. Google, while making a great effort in the space, has nowhere near the coverage (or frankly experience) of Facebook. And Microsoft is not even on the radar - very likely because THEY OWN a huge chunk of Facebook and have a vested interest in it's success.

Furthermore, this industry actually has a huge barrier to entry... unlike most online applications, you can't just spend a few hundred K on some coders and servers and compete with Facebook. Why? for the same reason Google is finding it difficult - the networking aspect. People want to be on networks where their friends are... and their friends want to be on networks where their friends are, and so on and so on, creating a feedback loop that makes one network the most popular. What is that network? Facebook. This is why it is hard to get people to switch to a new social network - because they can't bring all their friends and family with them, since some will not want to switch.. thus making the new network a virtual ghost town for them, so why would they keep using it.

As far as advertising, Facebook has a unique advantage in it's ability to target ads. While Google can only guess at things like where you went to school, what your religion is, where you're from, and if you prefer Iron Maiden or Katy Perry - Facebook does not even have to guess.. they know, because you told them (or, most people tell them.. on their profile). The ability to target ads specifically to 18-24 year olds who live in the north east and have an income of 65K-90K and own a Toyota and like country music - that is an advertiser's wet dream, and Facebook is one of the only companies that can target ads with that kind of accuracy right now. And if you think I am making that up, then just log in as an advertiser sometime and try to make an ad - all those targeting options, and even more, are available.

Now, imagine 2-3 years from now, when TV is basically obsolete and everyone watches their shows online (we're nearly already there - do not underestimate the pace of change today), and Facebook is the advertising targetter that is hooked into most online video ads to decide which ad should be shown to whom - companies like Hulu, Netflix, etc. all rely on them for these demographics. You see where I am going with this - they would be getting a cut of essentially every dollar that is spent on TV advertising today.

This is not only possible, it is extremely likely. The only competitor they have to worry about, the only one that has even a chance of touching this, is Google - who is currently stumbling in the space. Of course, Google should not be underestimated - but to say that Facebook is some kind of flash-in-the-pan is living in an alternate reality as far as I am concerned.

As far as patents - a lot of the patents Facebook bought don't even have anything to do with their business. Unfortunately this is what you have to do in the world today, without patents you are vulnerable, so you need to either write a lot up (which Facebook never did, they were too busy creating an industry from nothing), or buy some from someone else. Personally I think (and facebook is in this camp too) that all patents on software should be null and void.

EDIT: Also, just as a disclaimer - I actually hate Facebook. I don't even use it, I use Google+ almost exclusively. This does not mean I can not see the value in their business... just like I can't stand the iPhone and other Apple products does not stop me from having a bunch of money invested in them!

[TheRed]

Blah what to do...the stock markets been in consecutive reds too. Get out other stocks and buy FB??

[deal_with_singh]

Blah what to do...the stock markets been in consecutive reds too. Get out other stocks and buy FB??

I'm selling everything I own at the open friday (IPO probably won't start trading till 10...)...get out of FB by 10:30 and rebuy everything :)

[niroopg]

As far as advertising, Facebook has a unique advantage in it's ability to target ads. While Google can only guess at things like where you went to school, what your religion is, where you're from, and if you prefer Iron Maiden or Katy Perry - Facebook does not even have to guess.. they know, because you told them (or, most people tell them.. on their profile). The ability to target ads specifically to 18-24 year olds who live in the north east and have an income of 65K-90K and own a Toyota and like country music - that is an advertiser's wet dream, and Facebook is one of the only companies that can target ads with that kind of accuracy right now. And if you think I am making that up, then just log in as an advertiser sometime and try to make an ad - all those targeting options, and even more, are available.

Now, imagine 2-3 years from now, when TV is basically obsolete and everyone watches their shows online (we're nearly already there - do not underestimate the pace of change today), and Facebook is the advertising targetter that is hooked into most online video ads to decide which ad should be shown to whom - companies like Hulu, Netflix, etc. all rely on them for these demographics. You see where I am going with this - they would be getting a cut of essentially every dollar that is spent on TV advertising today.

This is not only possible, it is extremely likely. The only competitor they have to worry about, the only one that has even a chance of touching this, is Google - who is currently stumbling in the space. Of course, Google should not be underestimated - but to say that Facebook is some kind of flash-in-the-pan is living in an alternate reality as far as I am concerned.

As far as patents - a lot of the patents Facebook bought don't even have anything to do with their business. Unfortunately this is what you have to do in the world today, without patents you are vulnerable, so you need to either write a lot up (which Facebook never did, they were too busy creating an industry from nothing), or buy some from someone else. Personally I think (and facebook is in this camp too) that all patents on software should be null and void.


Have you actually been following Facebook's ability to monetize through advertising? Or are you just working on the theoretical possibility of targeted advertising which people have been talking about FOR YEARS?

Facebook has struggled for a long time in increasing per user net revenues. They are getting $4 per user. All of their revenue growth over the last 5 years has been a consequence of membership base growth, not implementing strategies to improve monetization. And the room for growth is dwindling fast. GM has pulled its Facebook advertising and many other organizations are following suit. It just doesn't work.

There are tremendous issues with respect to using private information for the purposes of revenue through corporate advertising. They already have concerns with breach of privacy. They are just waiting for a massive class action to stomp them out. Not to mention, the second true advertising comes to Facebook, they will irritate the membership base and the base will drop.

And you are completely clueless if you think the internet will replace television in a few years. We aren't even close now. In fact, the US government has taken a direct interest in taking down some of the largest internet corporations on the planet that participate or condone copyright violations (Megaupload and associate organizations). Not to mention, user based billing is rampant and the infrastructure is not even close to allowing for comfortable 24/7 streaming of video data from the entire population. It is not convenient. Even if this would come into fruition, Facebook will not be the target. Organizations that provide the video service would be, as they can guarentee advertisement viewing prior to the true content display (ie. youtube). There are already numerous studies that demonstrate NO ONE CLICKS ON FACEBOOK ADS. You start making them mandatory and you destroy facebook's convenience and social experience.

They aren't a flash in the pan. But to see early adopters leave the facebook advertising market is not reassuring. Furthermore, facebook has no clear plan for monetization of the membership base. And yet underwriters are setting up a valuation of $100 billion, when 3-4 months ago, Facebook was looking at a $5 billion valuation. They are looking for a P/E of 60-80 when Apple has a PE of 20 and Google at 18.5.

They will remain very popular. They will never meet the expectations of a $100 billion valuation when they have had years to monetize their user base more effectively and have had ZERO SUCCESS in this regard. All their growth has been purely because of user acquisition.

[Ethan15]

To put things into perspective, Facebook will worth around

- 1/2 of Wal-Mart
- 50% more than TD Canada Trust
- 1000% more than Loblaw Companies Limited (Canadian largest grocer)

[aviador]

Er.. I think all can agree there is risk in buying FB on Friday, but this statement is just bat-guano insane. FB basically invented social networking, and they essentially own the whole space for casual users (LinkedIn owns it for professionals). The reason MySpace is worthless is BECAUSE of Facebook, not in spite of it. Google, while making a great effort in the space, has nowhere near the coverage (or frankly experience) of Facebook. And Microsoft is not even on the radar - very likely because THEY OWN a huge chunk of Facebook and have a vested interest in it's success.


OP, such passionate arguments, so little facts to back them up.:facepalm:

Check this timeline chart http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/a-history-of-social-networking-before-facebook-and-twitter/

Social networking was not invented at all by FB. Check the list at wiki (with dates) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_networking_websites . FB is just the current big player in northamerica but nothing else.

Similarly, before google search engine, there were yahoo and altavista search engines, some metasearch engines who would put google to shames (dogpile, webcrawler, etc. anyone?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_search_engines

----------
Investing is a personal choice. Anyway, please those who invest on FB let's know how well you do.

[aviador]

I'm selling everything I own at the open friday (IPO probably won't start trading till 10...)...get out of FB by 10:30 and rebuy everything :)

Please don't forget to tell us if you could pull this off. Risk-taker investor, aren't you?

[deal_with_singh]

Please don't forget to tell us if you could pull this off. Risk-taker investor, aren't you?

Yep, I believe in the saying, no risk no reward :).

And as I mentioned, I'm still young, so risk is for me :cheesygri

I've made big money in some bets, lost a sh*t load in miners (~10k loss)

Let's see where this takes me :D

[brunes]

Facebook has struggled for a long time in increasing per user net revenues. They are getting $4 per user. All of their revenue growth over the last 5 years has been a consequence of membership base growth, not implementing strategies to improve monetization. And the room for growth is dwindling fast. GM has pulled its Facebook advertising and many other organizations are following suit. It just doesn't work.

You are missing what I am saying. There is a fundamental, paradigm shift upon us in how advertising dollars are spent. People who don't see it coming are going to be left in the dust. Facebook knows it is coming, Google knows it is coming. The TV networks, they don't get it yet. The idea that someone is going to spend millions of dollars on a TV campaign that they have no real feedback on will be a thing of the past, because it will not be satisfactory not to mention that that model of distributing video content will be dead). All that money will go somewhere.



And you are completely clueless if you think the internet will replace television in a few years. We aren't even close now.
Actually, we are very close. There are already ample studies that show it, people under 30 do not watch TV anymore, at least not traditionally. They don't buy cable and they don't want to be handcuffed to a schedule. These are the same people who will all be having kids in the next 3-5 years. Who do you think is the demographic advertisers most want to reach?

Like I said, people who think that the trends are going to slow down or that we won't be there in 3-5 years are going to be left in the dust just like the music industry was until Apple saved their ***** . You want to know one company you should short right now? CBS - they are one network that CERTAINLY does not get it (CBS is the only major network not an investor in Hulu and has no episodes available to watch online)

This whole conversation reminds me a lot of the YLO conversation I had with people 3 years ago, who also could not see the rapid pace of change that technology would bring to that sector... it amazes me I still have to have conversations like this. Like I heard in a presentation the other day - "the future belongs to those who move fast". 5 years ago the iPhone did not even exist. Now 1 out of every two phones sold is a smartphone.. what do you think that percentage will be next year? By the end of 2014 your phone will be more powerful than your laptop, what will that mean? 5 years ago the "mobile apps" market did not even exist - now it it is a market worth hundreds of billions. And you are telling me a simple thing like TV can not change? Please, look around you.

[niroopg]

You are missing what I am saying. There is a fundamental, paradigm shift upon us in how advertising dollars are spent. People who don't see it coming are going to be left in the dust. Facebook knows it is coming, Google knows it is coming. The TV networks, they don't get it yet. The idea that someone is going to spend millions of dollars on a TV campaign that they have no real feedback on will be a thing of the past, because it will not be satisfactory not to mention that that model of distributing video content will be dead). All that money will go somewhere.

Actually, we are very close. There are already ample studies that show it, people under 30 do not watch TV anymore, at least not traditionally. They don't buy cable and they don't want to be handcuffed to a schedule. These are the same people who will all be having kids in the next 3-5 years. Who do you think is the demographic advertisers most want to reach?

Like I said, people who think that the trends are going to slow down or that we won't be there in 3-5 years are going to be left in the dust just like the music industry was until Apple saved their ***** . You want to know one company you should short right now? CBS - they are one network that CERTAINLY does not get it (CBS is the only major network not an investor in Hulu and has no episodes available to watch online)

This whole conversation reminds me a lot of the YLO conversation I had with people 3 years ago, who also could not see the rapid pace of change that technology would bring to that sector.

The telecommunications infrastructure and UBB will not be improved to allow every single household member to have simultaneous access to high throughput internet access sufficient to stream. In fact, the major telecommunications corporations have put everything in place to penalize extensive data consumption. You think the 60GB of bandwidth is going to provide enough streaming for an entire family. UBB is not a fad - it has been here a very long time and will continue to remain and make it unaffordable to use the internet for entertainment for an entire family. Sure, a single individual who barely watches shows can stream what they want without issue. Families will not have that same luxury of meeting every family member's entertainment demands - due to both cost and infrastructural deficiencies (download rate, bandwidth, etc).

Nonetheless, Facebook will not be the medium of choice for advertising, as evidenced by GM's backing out of social media expenditure to Facebook and that lacklustrous profits it has achieved thus far.

[niroopg]

Yep, I believe in the saying, no risk no reward :).

And as I mentioned, I'm still young, so risk is for me :cheesygri

I've made big money in some bets, lost a sh*t load in miners (~10k loss)

Let's see where this takes me :D

Good luck! Hopefully you don't get suck in mid-queue when perceived demand created by Goldman Sachs, Facebook insiders, et al. is obliterated by reality and the stock free falls towards its true valuation of $15-25 billion.

Almost every channel has been airing that people should stay away from Facebook - the numbers don't work. I'm sure that will significantly deter the average amateur "I'm gonna get rich because its so easy" investor, who are essential to actualizing the over-valuation made by underwriters.

[deal_with_singh]

Good luck! Hopefully you don't get suck in mid-queue when perceived demand created by Goldman Sachs, Facebook insiders, et al. is obliterated by reality and the stock free falls towards its true valuation of $15-25 billion.

Almost every channel has been airing that people should stay away from Facebook - the numbers don't work. I'm sure that will significantly deter the average amateur "I'm gonna get rich because its so easy" investor, who are essential to actualizing the over-valuation made by underwriters.

As I mentioned, I'm going to be in and out within a few minutes, so all of this means nothing to me.

[Mark77]

All that money will go somewhere.



What if the overall 'pot' of advertising money shrinks? Advertising itself cannot forever grow faster than the economy, and certainly, if we transition from an economy that is characterized by a lot of consumer spending, to an economy based on a lot of business/capital spending, then the need for mass-market advertising will be somewhat less.

At some point, if people get poor enough, they will probably end up rejecting the high cost of buying highly advertised goods and services.

[Mark77]

Good luck! Hopefully you don't get suck in mid-queue when perceived demand created by Goldman Sachs, Facebook insiders, et al. is obliterated by reality and the stock free falls towards its true valuation of $15-25 billion.

Even that sort of valuation is generous. If a firm like this flames out after 10 years on the market, and it earns $1B/year -- the present-value valuation that could be supported is closer to $4-$6B.

As a previous poster stated, its actual tangible assets are practically worthless in a liquidation scenario, meaning that the firm has a terminal value of $0.

[Mark77]

As I mentioned, I'm going to be in and out within a few minutes, so all of this means nothing to me.


Try this scenario on:

It opens at $37. Your limit order goes through at $37.2. $37.3 passes, $37.4. You figure your break-even after round-trip commission is $37.5...

So you try and sell at $37.8, but it fails to gain altitude, and ends the day at $36.5.

What then? Hope that tomorrow brings a better day? Or take a loss and get the heck out?

This is the problem with a quick-flip scenario. Its the same reason why I can't sell computers to my friends using NCIX's Black Friday or Boxing Day limited quantity specials -- its a trade that's just not reliably available!

[niroopg]

Even that sort of valuation is generous. If a firm like this flames out after 10 years on the market, and it earns $1B/year -- the present-value valuation that could be supported is closer to $4-$6B.

Fair enough. I was giving "Facebook" a high end multiplier because of branding and its domination in the social media sector from a membership perspective. IF they ever figure it out, the firm will skyrocket.

[deal_with_singh]

Try this scenario on:

It opens at $37. Your limit order goes through at $37.2. $37.3 passes, $37.4. You figure your break-even after round-trip commission is $37.5...

So you try and sell at $37.8, but it fails to gain altitude, and ends the day at $36.5.

What then? Hope that tomorrow brings a better day? Or take a loss and get the heck out?

This is the problem with a quick-flip scenario. Its the same reason why I can't sell computers to my friends using NCIX's Black Friday or Boxing Day limited quantity specials -- its a trade that's just not reliably available!

The way I see it, these are just what-iffs....

Again, if I can't make a profit within the first hour, and maybe even 2 hours, I'm out whether a loss or gain.

The chances I lose on this trade to me personally are next to none. If I lose, well then its not too much of a problem, the reward I see in this is worth the risk. Honestly, in the end of the day if I lose a couple grand, not gonna hurt me much. If I need to get cash to pay back my CC, I can simply liquidate some of my things (for instance, I have another account with quite a bit of shares I don't even look at as its specifically meant for me to be held for the long run)

Each person has their own level of risk they're willing to take on, and I suppose this is mine...We'll see what happens friday.

[niroopg]

The way I see it, these are just what-iffs....

Again, if I can't make a profit within the first hour, and maybe even 2 hours, I'm out whether a loss or gain.

The chances I lose on this trade to me personally are next to none. If I lose, well then its not too much of a problem, the reward I see in this is worth the risk. Honestly, in the end of the day if I lose a couple grand, not gonna hurt me much. If I need to get cash to pay back my CC, I can simply liquidate some of my things (for instance, I have another account with quite a bit of shares I don't even look at as its specifically meant for me to be held for the long run)

Each person has their own level of risk they're willing to take on, and I suppose this is mine...We'll see what happens friday.

Ah, I thought you were risking 100K+ or something. If you are worst case scenario is a few thousand lost, that is essentially meaningless with recovery in the order of one week lol.

[SyntheticForward]

The way I see it, these are just what-iffs....

Again, if I can't make a profit within the first hour, and maybe even 2 hours, I'm out whether a loss or gain.

The chances I lose on this trade to me personally are next to none. If I lose, well then its not too much of a problem, the reward I see in this is worth the risk. Honestly, in the end of the day if I lose a couple grand, not gonna hurt me much. If I need to get cash to pay back my CC, I can simply liquidate some of my things (for instance, I have another account with quite a bit of shares I don't even look at as its specifically meant for me to be held for the long run)

Each person has their own level of risk they're willing to take on, and I suppose this is mine...We'll see what happens friday.

Are you planning to just put a market order at opening? I'm considering setting up a few limit orders in case it jumps before I can get in.

Gonna put at least $25k; probably will do:
- 200 shares @ 35
- 200 shares @ 37.5
- 200 shares @ 40
and use the remaining to see what market rate I can get...

[SyntheticForward]

Are you planning to just put a market order at opening? I'm considering setting up a few limit orders in case it jumps before I can get in.

Gonna put at least $25k; probably will do:
- 200 shares @ 35
- 200 shares @ 37.5
- 200 shares @ 40
and use the remaining to see what market rate I can get...

Might margin up for 75k...

Should be the easiest return all year, even easier than the JCP short I made 10 seconds before close (500 share short... easiest $2700 I've earned for 10 seconds)

[SyntheticForward]

Try this scenario on:

It opens at $37. Your limit order goes through at $37.2. $37.3 passes, $37.4. You figure your break-even after round-trip commission is $37.5...

So you try and sell at $37.8, but it fails to gain altitude, and ends the day at $36.5.

What then? Hope that tomorrow brings a better day? Or take a loss and get the heck out?

This is the problem with a quick-flip scenario. Its the same reason why I can't sell computers to my friends using NCIX's Black Friday or Boxing Day limited quantity specials -- its a trade that's just not reliably available!

If you don't believe in a first day pop why don't you short it? At least I'm standing behind my "advice". Maybe you'll be right and it'll be like Carlyte Group - margin 100x and short it with everything since you know it'll drop.

[Mark77]

If you don't believe in a first day pop why don't you short it?


Obtaining a borrow could be very problematic. I'm not even sure if shorting is possible, meaning that the entire 'sell' side will be comprised of outfits that already own shares through the IPO itself.

[Kaitlyn]

Are you planning to just put a market order at opening? I'm considering setting up a few limit orders in case it jumps before I can get in.

Gonna put at least $25k; probably will do:
- 200 shares @ 35
- 200 shares @ 37.5
- 200 shares @ 40
and use the remaining to see what market rate I can get...

You really think there is a chance you can get in at 10am-ish with an order @ $35? :S

[kingofwale]

really don't know where it's going on Friday.

but i'm in for 50 shares... 100 if it's good price.

I don't want to risk it, but I'm kicking myself for not going in for me during Google's day

[Tharnax]

If you don't believe in a first day pop why don't you short it?

Mark77 is correct, you will very likely not be able to short FB on IPO day. Even though the number of shares being made available to the public has increased from 337.4 Million to 421.2 million this is still a limited number of shares being made available and in order to short you have to be able to borrow the stock from somewhere. No CDN brokerage will have stock pre-IPO so they won't have any stock to lend.

http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/05/062905.asp

Options trading on FB won't start until two weeks after IPO. http://news.yahoo.com/ise-offer-equity-options-facebook-may-29-192109227--sector.html


Gonna put at least $25k; probably will do:
- 200 shares @ 35
- 200 shares @ 37.5
- 200 shares @ 40
and use the remaining to see what market rate I can get...

Given the hype surrounding this IPO, it is extremely likely that the opening price will be approximate $60-$70 per share, (we can check here tomorrow to see how close I was to the correct opening price). FB will set the IPO price at some point after market close tonight. My guess is they will take the high end of the $35-$38 price point, remember over half of the number of shares are going not to FB but to early investors, Accel Partners, DST Global, Goldman Sachs, Tiger Global Management, Mail.ru Group Ltd, etc., they want to maximize their profit with zero market risk.

http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2012/05/16/facebook-ipo-shareholders-looking-to-cash-out-more/

The ability to enter limit orders will start after all North American market close. I'm sure there will be a cat and mouse game all evening, where investors will one up the previous limit order until a bid/ask spread is in the $60+ range. This number could be even higher as this type of hype is very difficult to gauge, previous tech IPOs this year just didn't have anywhere near the same hype as FB. Anything higher then $70 puts FB at a $200 Billion market valuation. Valuations at this level start to become unrealistic even in FB's best case scenario. Therefore, my feeling is the opening price will be within 10% of high for the day and majority of trading will be below that price point. I believe most institutional investors can justify a $45 - $50 price per share valuation.

So SyntheticForward your limit orders will not get filled. If they do it's because FB IPO is collapsing after a ridiculous starting opening price ($100+ per share) and is crashing down as those same early buyers now try to close out their position prior to market close.

IMHO, for the none IPO investor, tomorrow is going to be a day of buy high/sell low for the average investor.

[red_skittles]

The way I see it, these are just what-iffs....

I forgot, investing is all about certainties.

What makes you even think you can get in at the first few minutes. Everyone and their mother and their dog is going to be trying to buy. And I'm sure their all going to be just like you in thinking that its a sure fire way to make huge profits in a few minutes. But then again, when everyone has a sure fire way to get rich you know it must be good. I have no doubt the stock will gain but I have a feeling by the time you buy in its going to have peaked and will be on the down swing. Facebook isn't a long term investment, which is obvious to even the most amateur investors. Everyone's going to be pumping and dumping.

[coleworld]

The rich will get richer, this stock will be manipulated and a lot of suckers will be left holding an empty bag...

I'm staying out for the first couple weeks.

That being said, good luck to everyone, I truly do hope some of you RFDers cash in!!!

[deal_with_singh]

Ah, I thought you were risking 100K+ or something. If you are worst case scenario is a few thousand lost, that is essentially meaningless with recovery in the order of one week lol.

Not a 100k+...I wish :P...

If I don't sell all my shares, then I'm only in 50k (with cash advance)...if I sell em (which I'm thinking I won't)...I'll be closer to 100k :P

[SyntheticForward]

I have a friend shifting 35k (up from 20k) from his TFSA to his margin account and margining out at 100k.

If he misses he'll just declare bankruptcy and go take one of his many job offers in HK/UK since credit history isn't transferred (i.e. your Canadian credit score doesn't impact your ability to get credit in the U.S.)

I'm in at 25k though since I don't have the same option.

#winning strategy by him though.

[Deal4US]

Just did a FX conversion for 175K CND$ to a bit over 172K US$, my personal banker rock, she got me market rates at 1.0169
Transfer the full amount to DI right now, I'm Going ALL IN! :D

[monomono]

In for 25 @ limit 50 :) Not much but there's always the chance this bubble could burst in a horrible way.

[Tharnax]

In for 25 @ limit 50 :) Not much but there's always the chance this bubble could burst in a horrible way.

25 shares? I'd avoid odd lot limit orders if at all possible tomorrow. You want to be able to get in and out quickly and anyone who wants boardlots (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/boardlot.asp) @ $50 will get their order filled before you.

Here's a good site for you if you're interested in stocks that will likely be impacted by the Facebook IPO but will be easier to trade in odd lots.

http://www.stockpickr.com/8-stocks-set-soar-facebooks-ipo.html

[GenX]

I'm no expert but I expect price at open will around $80-100. What makes people think it will open at $50? Linkedin was sold pre ipo at around 40-45... But opened at 83... If Facebook is sold at 38 pre ipo would it not open closer to 80 range due to demand?

[Tharnax]

I'm no expert but I expect price at open will around $80-100. What makes people think it will open at $50? Linkedin was sold pre ipo at around 40-45... But opened at 83... If Facebook is sold at 38 pre ipo would it not open closer to 80 range due to demand?

Although I agree with you on the $50 price point considering FB could price as high as $45 after market close. I still put my range between $60 - $70, here's why. Linkedin, isn't really a great comparison. Yes, it's IPO was at $45 but at $45 the valuation was only $3 Billion, so a ending price of $94.25 valued the company at $9 Billion. FB on the other hand at $45 per share is a valuation at over $110 Billion, anything over $100 is close to a $300 billion valuation. There are only a handful of companies in the world with that valuation and their revenues are a lot higher then $3.71 Billion per year. This is why $70 or $200 billion market valuation is a more realistic number, in my opinion. Who knows given extreme hype I seen over other investment boards, news sites, individual discussions, etc. today, it seems FB could possibly blow through the $100 price point before the shares even start trading on secondary markets tomorrow. At this point know one really knows for sure.

[Mark77]

Looks like its not selling too well to bagholdersclients:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/morgan-stanley-ups-facebook-ipo-195056448.html


The firm previously had set a cap of 500 shares per retail client, but told advisers late Thursday afternoon that it had increased the limit to 5,000 shares, according to two sources familiar with the situation, who declined to be named because they are not permitted to speak to the press.

[TheRed]

But still man. $200-300 billion valuation for FB? That's crazy. The upside potential is limited if it open at 200b at about $65 price.

[Jon Lai]

Does Questrade allow you to use your $CAD buying power to borrow money for $US equities?

[Tharnax]

IPO price confirmed @ $38.

[boyoflondon]

Looks like its not selling too well to bagholdersclients:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/morgan-stanley-ups-facebook-ipo-195056448.html

Means nothing really .. All depends on the amount of shares they get vs amount of interest they have. I know a firm in US that is limiting FB IPO to 100 shares per client.

[Madchester]

OP, such passionate arguments, so little facts to back them up.:facepalm:


You kept harping that FB had no patents - and I pointed out you were mistaken.

And now you're attacking other posters for having "little facts to back them up"

Pot calling kettle black? :facepalm:

[SyntheticForward]

Leveraged all-in...

[monomono]

Leveraged all-in...

But at what price? (so you can be humiliated if it tanks)

[TheRed]

*Drumsroll* Who has inputted their limit orders already and at what prices? And what % of your portfolio do you put into stake to buy FB? Hope not 200%.:cheesygri

Those with IB, have you made your limit order already?

[Mark77]

*Drumsroll* Who has inputted their limit orders already and at what prices? And what % of your portfolio do you put into stake to buy FB? Hope not 200%.:cheesygri

Those with IB, have you made your limit order already?

Just put in a SELL 100 shares @ $100

[Jon Lai]

Just put in a SELL 100 shares @ $100

I doubt there will be shares available to short.

[deal_with_singh]

*Drumsroll* Who has inputted their limit orders already and at what prices? And what % of your portfolio do you put into stake to buy FB? Hope not 200%.:cheesygri

Those with IB, have you made your limit order already?

Put in a limit order for 1000 shares at $50

[Jon Lai]

Put in a limit order for 1000 shares at $50

What happened to picking them up for market?

[BennyBP]

I'll be buying <25 shares tomorrow.

I'm wondering... Do i have to transfer funds from my TD Discount Brokerage Canadian Cash account to my US Cash account in order to buy? Or can i just place my limit order in my Canadian Cash account?

[brunes]

I put in a limit order at 50 to buy 100, its a total flyer. If I lose it who cares, if I double up, nice. It is less than I lost last time I went to vegas!

[aviador]

You kept harping that FB had no patents - and I pointed out you were mistaken.

And now you're attacking other posters for having "little facts to back them up"

Pot calling kettle black? :facepalm:

Sorry to hurt your ego. :cry:

FB doesn't have patents of its own protecting its business model since it didn't invent it. :rolleyes:

Perhaps I should have been more specific and wrote fb has no (real and strong) patents for its business model (fb itself.)

What you pointed out is that FB has bought a lot of unrelated (to fb business itself) patents, as an investment?, hoping to fork its business?, hoping to revive old business ideas?, and I said it was more likely to retaliate to possible suits (e.g., an x company suits fb for infringing patents related to software for handling mail and fb countersuit this company with whatever troll they think they can use from fb's inventory of unrelated patents. Since the patents fb bought are too broad and unspecific they hope to bog their opponents in court and force them to an amiable settlement.)

Think of those patents you mention as if they were drug or machinery patents (unrelated to fb business.) It just happens they might be useful to suit attackers of infringing any of them since they are too old (software, general, not specific.) A typical case is RIM. In reality RIM patented a two way beeper not phone texting, but since the patent was so unspecified and general, they manage to troll many other companies doing text or SMS business and get some money from them. Get it now?

Just chill out and don't take it personally. ;)
Let's say you are 100000000000000000000000% right and close the argument.

-----
Small bickering appart, I see people are really going all the way to speculate in the IPO. I haven't seen any taker for long. Is anyone planning to hold on to some stock for a couple of weeks to see what happens in a longer term?

[Tharnax]

Based on current bids and offers, there is a lot of support for $100 per share at the moment. However, this can change as there is a lot of time between now at 11:00am tomorrow. I've seen offers to buy as high as $125 as well as offers to buy under $10, so there is a huge range at the moment. Currently, it appears offers to sell without existing position are being rejected/cancelled by the brokerage. However, I don't know each individual brokerage's rules but all short sells are required to be market short so they won't be filled if their brokerage doesn't have the stock to leverage.

It's about 95 - 1 buys to sells. Those with limit orders to sell have earlier orders to buy. I guess hoping for a quick flip. Most of these are under $100, so unless there is some major adjustment the buys will get filled on the way down not up.

[deal_with_singh]

What happened to picking them up for market?

I got a message from TD Waterhouse stating all Market orders placed before shares start trading will be rejected and I can only place limit orders. So I put a limit of where I think it will open.

[kingofwale]

Put in a limit order for 1000 shares at $50

why all at the same price?

I'm setting it up for 200 at 45 and another 100 at 55.

hopefully i can get all 300 shares at 40 dollars. :), but i really hope I can at least get some at $55

To be honest, I just hope I can get some tomorrow before it goes crazy, Which is probably going to be the case.

[Kaitlyn]

I have a TD Waterhouse account with us cash and cdn cash accounts. My us has basically no cash in it but cdn does. Can I buy the us stock through that or have to forex?

I don't want to exchange funds only to have no order go through and be stuck with the us funds...

Can anyone confirm at what time you can actually buy tomorrow?

[deal_with_singh]

why all at the same price?

I'm setting it up for 200 at 45 and another 100 at 55.

hopefully i can get all 300 shares at 40 dollars. :), but i really hope I can at least get some at $55

To be honest, I just hope I can get some tomorrow before it goes crazy, Which is probably going to be the case.

I'm all in at $50 because I'm just trying to pick up all the shares I can at the open...within a minute its going to get crazy as it has with every IPO.

Analysts estimating it opens at $42 and close at $50 Which would be good enough for me...I'm estimating a $45 open and a $60-70 intra day high.

[deal_with_singh]

I have a TD Waterhouse account with us cash and cdn cash accounts. My us has basically no cash in it but cdn does. Can I buy the us stock through that or have to forex?

I don't want to exchange funds only to have no order go through and be stuck with the us funds...

Can anyone confirm at what time you can actually buy tomorrow?

If you're considered an "Active Trader" TD gives you an overall buying power which is a combination of USD And CAD...and you can buy either with that...as long as you cover the negative balance in the other account within 3 days or sell within the 3 days :)

[Kaitlyn]

If you're considered an "Active Trader" TD gives you an overall buying power which is a combination of USD And CAD...and you can buy either with that...as long as you cover the negative balance in the other account within 3 days or sell within the 3 days :)

And if not? I should exchange the fund currency?

[deal_with_singh]

And if not? I should exchange the fund currency?

Another option would be buy it in your canadian funds but TD does some messed up stuff and it might end up costing oyu more...

[BennyBP]

And if not? I should exchange the fund currency?

I have another question off this one. (by the way yes you will most likely be better just to accept the conversion at the time of the order)

I have another account separately held in US funds at scotia bank.. Can I interac e-transfer the US funds right into my TD discount brokerage US cash account???

if not, whats the best way to get my US funds from scotia into my TD account? (or will have to do like Kaitlyn and exchange my CAD?)

[BennyBP]

I have another question off this one. (by the way yes you will most likely be better just to accept the conversion at the time of the order)

I have another account separately held in US funds at scotia bank.. Can I interac e-transfer the US funds right into my TD discount brokerage US cash account???

if not, whats the best way to get my US funds from scotia into my TD account? (or will have to do like Kaitlyn and exchange my CAD?)

nvm, from TD Interac E-Transfer info page:

1 Participating financial institutions include BMO Bank of Montreal, CIBC, RBC Royal Bank, Prospera Credit Union, Scotiabank, TD Canada Trust, Bank of Canada and ING. Alternatively, the recipient can collect an Interac e-Transfer using the Interac e-Transfer site. Service is only available for Canadian-dollar accounts held in Canada.

[GenX]

I trade with itrade and they said you can not buy until until it goes live... cant even put in limit orders...

Scotia iTRADE trading notification
Please be advised we are unable to accept orders on Facebook Inc. (FB:NASDAQ) until it begins trading on the exchange.

[Jon Lai]

I have a TD Waterhouse account with us cash and cdn cash accounts. My us has basically no cash in it but cdn does. Can I buy the us stock through that or have to forex?

I don't want to exchange funds only to have no order go through and be stuck with the us funds...

Can anyone confirm at what time you can actually buy tomorrow?

I was wondering the same thing with Questrade.

[deal_with_singh]

I trade with itrade and they said you can not buy until until it goes live... cant even put in limit orders...

Scotia iTRADE trading notification
Please be advised we are unable to accept orders on Facebook Inc. (FB:NASDAQ) until it begins trading on the exchange.

This is the message from TD Waterhouse


Facebook Inc. (FB) expected to begin trading Friday May 18, 2012

We anticipate that Facebook Inc. (Symbol: FB) will commence trading on the NASDAQ stock market starting Friday May 18, 2012. Please note the following:

Due to a U.S. regulatory rule, market orders submitted before the stock officially opens and has been traded will be rejected
If you elect to place an order prior to the stock trading on the exchange, it will need to be a limit order
The first trade could occur as early as 9:30 a.m. ET, but could also take place later in the morning
If you access a quote for Facebook Inc. prior to the stock trading on the exchange, the bid and ask will display as “zero.”
Further information will be provided if necessary or available. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to call a TD Waterhouse Investment Representative at 1-800-465-5463.

[Kaitlyn]

I've never done a limit buy and sell together... don't even know if it's possible.

Can I set a limit buy $50 and limit sell $75, for example?

Will the system let me limit sell at 75 if I, in theory, do not actually have any shares?

[BennyBP]

I've never done a limit buy and sell together... don't even know if it's possible.

Can I set a limit buy $50 and limit sell $75, for example?

Will the system let me limit sell at 75 if I, in theory, do not actually have any shares?

I dont know the answer but im sure someone will answer that momentarily..


Who here thinks its realistic to think a limit order at $50 for 100 shares would get filled tomorrow morning early enough, in time to fill a limit sell order of $75 intra-day?

[canibusIII]

I've never done a limit buy and sell together... don't even know if it's possible.

Can I set a limit buy $50 and limit sell $75, for example?

Will the system let me limit sell at 75 if I, in theory, do not actually have any shares?

I actually just tried, and it said ''Your account does not hold sufficient quantity of this security. Contact your local TD Waterhouse office for assistance''. Does anyone know when I'll be able to place a sell order? Is it as soon as my buy order gets filled is that when I can iniateit? I've never bought and sold shares in the same day so a bit of a newbie there.... Thanks for your help!

[deal_with_singh]

I've never done a limit buy and sell together... don't even know if it's possible.

Can I set a limit buy $50 and limit sell $75, for example?

Will the system let me limit sell at 75 if I, in theory, do not actually have any shares?

Kaitlyn...you have to own shares to sell them, otherwise you're shorting them. If you have a margin account, you can sell without owning the shares, so what you want to do would be possible.

[TheRed]

Based on current bids and offers, there is a lot of support for $100 per share at the moment. However, this can change as there is a lot of time between now at 11:00am tomorrow. I've seen offers to buy as high as $125 as well as offers to buy under $10, so there is a huge range at the moment. Currently, it appears offers to sell without existing position are being rejected/cancelled by the brokerage. However, I don't know each individual brokerage's rules but all short sells are required to be market short so they won't be filled if their brokerage doesn't have the stock to leverage.

It's about 95 - 1 buys to sells. Those with limit orders to sell have earlier orders to buy. I guess hoping for a quick flip. Most of these are under $100, so unless there is some major adjustment the buys will get filled on the way down not up.

Where did you get this info? Level 2 quotes?

[deal_with_singh]

Where did you get this info? Level 2 quotes?

I dont know what he's talking about, its impossible to see any order as they haven't been sent to the markets yet...all orders can only be put in queue

[Kaitlyn]

So... how high are people willing to buy? :)

[monomono]

I trade with itrade and they said you can not buy until until it goes live... cant even put in limit orders...

Scotia iTRADE trading notification
Please be advised we are unable to accept orders on Facebook Inc. (FB:NASDAQ) until it begins trading on the exchange.

Wow, iTrade sucks. The new site design was bad enough. Glad I switched to RBC.

[TheRed]

Where can you find first day of trading charts for goog, zynga, lnkd, yelp, grpn, amzn, and others?

I think observing these charts can reveal some investors behaviour on the first day of public trading.

[deal_with_singh]

So... how high are people willing to buy? :)

Buying at whatever it opens at...I can easily see up to 50% gains...simply off hype!



Where can you find first day of trading charts for goog, zynga, lnkd, yelp, grpn, amzn, and others?

I think observing these charts can reveal some investors behaviour on the first day of public trading.


TMX.com...you'll have to know when the first trading day was...

[Kaitlyn]

Buying at whatever it opens at...I can easily see up to 50% gains...simply off hype!

Which you can accomplish by doing a limit order at $1000 or something, right? That's basically a market order?

[TheRed]

Buying at whatever it opens at...I can easily see up to 50% gains...simply off hype!





TMX.com...you'll have to know when the first trading day was...

Is there any chart? Like when it opens does it instantly soar for few minutes, then tumbles as people cashing in minutes later, then starting going north again as limit orders get filled again and etc...

[40gates]

Missing some options - I would vote "Maybe", but not based on some arbitrary time frame like one week.

[GenX]

This is the message from TD Waterhouse

Atleast TD and RBC allow you to buy... this really sucks for itrade customers...

[deal_with_singh]

Is there any chart? Like when it opens does it instantly soar for few minutes, then tumbles as people cashing in minutes later, then starting going north again as limit orders get filled again and etc...

Google Finance would be your best bet.

[TheRed]

This poll chart is unsettling, people are expected to pay $101.26?! Though the range is really BIG.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303448404577409923406193162.html#a rticleTabs%3Dinteractive

Go to Interactive Graph, then Share Value.

[TheRed]

Google Finance would be your best bet.

Nah tried it. Not working. Wonder if there are any day-to-day charting tools out there that allows custom dates.

[deal_with_singh]

Which you can accomplish by doing a limit order at $1000 or something, right? That's basically a market order?

If you do a limit order for $1000 /share...you're basically saying you're willing to buy up to $1000 per share, but you'll get it at whatever the price is...Although you better have a lot of money...even if you have a 100k...

at $1000 per share, you're only going to be able to buy 100 shares.

[BennyBP]

If you do a limit order for $1000 /share...you're basically saying you're willing to buy up to $1000 per share, but you'll get it at whatever the price is...Although you better have a lot of money...even if you have a 100k...

at $1000 per share, you're only going to be able to buy 100 shares.

Except what would be more likely to happen if her limit order was for $1000, is her order would fill at market, lol.

[TheRed]

Except what would be more likely to happen if her limit order was for $1000, is her order would fill at market, lol.

Hm filling at market would depend at how fast your broker is. I mean, if you get filled at the very first price when the market open, then you're good and it beats a limit order. So anyhow it depends at how fast can your broker execute your order.

[deal_with_singh]

Except what would be more likely to happen if her limit order was for $1000, is her order would fill at market, lol.

That is what would happen, my point is just that she wouldn't be able to buy too many shares. Because it would restrict her buying power.

[BennyBP]

Hm filling at market would depend at how fast your broker is. I mean, if you get filled at the very first price when the market open, then you're good and it beats a limit order. So anyhow it depends at how fast can your broker execute your order.

Yes, but it will not reach $1000 tomorrow, or ever most likely. So the order would basically place at the going market price whenever her broker or FI could get her order filled. (hopefully not over $100 but then again HYPE is a beast of its own)



That is what would happen, my point is just that she wouldn't be able to buy too many shares. Because it would restrict her buying power.

I understand what you're saying, lol.

[boyoflondon]

Which you can accomplish by doing a limit order at $1000 or something, right? That's basically a market order?


In theory, yes.

In simple terms, when placing an order, under "order type" you would select "market".

[Jon Lai]

Is there nobody doing this through Questrade or something? :(

[TheRed]

Just thought to survey RFDers... on a more targeted "finance" forum (albeit on a "deal" website" but people visiting this thread are more likely to be investors, unlike public polls where the majority of the people voting might not even be investors.)

How many people here are skeptics and believe tomorrow FB gonna plummet?

How many people here are optimistic and believe tomorrow FB gonna explode?

[BennyBP]

Just thought to survey RFDers... on a more targeted "finance" forum (albeit on a "deal" website" but people visiting this thread are more likely to be investors, unlike public polls where the majority of the people voting might not even be investors.)

How many people here are skeptics and believe tomorrow FB gonna plummet?

How many people here are optimistic and believe tomorrow FB gonna explode?

I think it'll pop, and come down closer to closing bell as people hurry to make their buck. (or cut their losses, depending on when they got their shares)


I say open around 45-50, close around 70-80, intra day high 106.

(we can check back here tomorrow to see how close i was, lol)

[Tharnax]

Where did you get this info? Level 2 quotes?

No, although if you have Nasdaq level 2 quotes you will likely be able to see the depth of book for FB prior starting at 9:30 up until live trading at 11:00. There will be no additional orders accepted between 10:45 and 11:00, so you should be able to see the bid/ask spread during this time which will give you an idea of the opening price.


I dont know what he's talking about, its impossible to see any order as they haven't been sent to the markets yet...all orders can only be put in queue

Correct, orders have not yet been route to Nasdaq which is why you won't see them on Nasdaq level 2 depth of book or top of book. However, many Canadian orders are held in common financial order systems although not all banks use the same so I'm not suggesting I can see the world but I can see a portion of the world, well some of Canada anyway. Unfortunately, to even consider taking part in the FB IPO, I can't have access this so I'm actually not in the office tomorrow so now I'm in the dark from here to 11am like the rest of you. All I can say is the hype from the retail environment was much larger then I could have expected.

I'm guessing an opening price of $90 - $100 range should not be unexpected but it's still 12hrs between now at 11am so anything can happen.

BTW, iTrade should take limit orders for FB. However, All market orders for FB from any country will be rejected/cancelled. As Nasdaq is the only listing for FB tomorrow, everyone has to buy/sell through them as such the newest FINRA rule prohibiting that market order for an IPO will be enforced.

http://www.finra.org/web/groups/industry/@ip/@reg/@notice/documents/notices/p123794.pdf

Paragraph (d)(4) of the rule (Market Orders) prohibits firms from accepting any market order for the purchase of shares of a new issue in the secondary market prior to the commencement of trading of such shares in the secondary market.

[deal_with_singh]

Just thought to survey RFDers... on a more targeted "finance" forum (albeit on a "deal" website" but people visiting this thread are more likely to be investors, unlike public polls where the majority of the people voting might not even be investors.)

How many people here are skeptics and believe tomorrow FB gonna plummet?

How many people here are optimistic and believe tomorrow FB gonna explode?

I'm thinking morning explosion, evening plummet.

[BennyBP]

Does it make a difference if we place our limit orders tonight versus tomorrow morning at 8am? Will that affect when the order gets filled?

Is there a queue?

[Tharnax]

I'm thinking morning explosion, evening plummet.

Trading doesn't start until 11am! I still think the opening will be the high or within 10% of the high for the day.

FYI, A limit order of $1000 even for 100 shares would likely be cancelled/rejected by your broker. I heard, "through the grapevine", that a much greater then $100 limit buy order placed after market close was going to result in the owner of the account getting a phone call to explain why his/her order would be cancelled/rejected. Don't know if it was full service or discount, don't know the brokerage but I do know that ridiculous limit buy orders will likely get rejected prior to the 10:45 "trading pause" and if not outright rejected by the brokerage could be rejected by the exchange.

[boyoflondon]

Does it make a difference if we place our limit orders tonight versus tomorrow morning at 8am? Will that affect when the order gets filled?

Is there a queue?

There is ... Although Market orders have priority over limit (and all other) orders.

On side note, GS will make $1.09bil from the sale of FB.

[Tharnax]

Does it make a difference if we place our limit orders tonight versus tomorrow morning at 8am? Will that affect when the order gets filled?

Is there a queue?

No difference, no "queue". Most likely what will happen is the broker/dealer will take a large chunk of orders block them together and try to get one large fill, then allocate back to the individual accounts at an average price. If they get less quantity then the bulk order, they could choose to fill large customer orders first or allocate a portion to all the accounts. So if you had a limit order of 200 shares @ $70 and your brokerage secured 1 million shares at $65 during allocation, you could get 100 of those shares @ $65 with your limit order for the last 100 shares still open. This is why many investors who want to do the buy/sell trick put in a limit order to buy 200 shares at say $10 and a sell limit order to sell 200 shares at $20. Assuming the price rises through your buy and sell prices then whatever you get allocated would be then sold at the higher price. The problem is if thing go the other way around and the starts higher then both your sell and buy prices, then the sell order would be rejected as the price drops through the price range, cancelling the sell order and depending how fast the decline you could still end up purchasing the stock at the lower price. Hence risk!

Part of the reason why picking you price points and spread is very important.

[BennyBP]

No difference, no "queue". Most likely what will happen is the broker/dealer will take a large chunk of orders block them together and try to get one large fill, then allocate back to the individual accounts at an average price. If they get less quantity then the bulk order, they could choose to fill large customer orders first or allocate a portion to all the accounts. So if you had a limit order of 200 shares @ $70 and your brokerage secured 1 million shares at $65 during allocation, you could get 100 of those shares @ $65 with your limit order for the last 100 shares still open. This is why many investors who want to do the buy/sell trick put in a limit order to buy 200 shares at say $10 and a sell limit order to sell 200 shares at $20. Assuming the price rises through your buy and sell prices then whatever you get allocated would be then sold at the higher price. The problem is if thing go the other way around and the starts higher then both your sell and buy prices, then the sell order would be rejected as the price drops through the price range, cancelling the sell order and depending how fast the decline you could still end up purchasing the stock at the lower price. Hence risk!

Part of the reason why picking you price points and spread is very important.

I had to read that twice. lmao.

Well im thinking to place a limit order of 40 shares at $50 and a sell limit immediately after my buy order gets filled, for $75.

Probably not the most likely order to get filled, but It's all I can manage atm - here's to hoping, if not i'll go back to crack rock.

[Jon Lai]

So it's confirmed going to start trading at 11am and not 9:30am?

[deal_with_singh]

So it's confirmed going to start trading at 11am and not 9:30am?

Yeah, saw it on CNBC stating it'll start trading at 11am

[Jon Lai]

Yeah, saw it on CNBC stating it'll start trading at 11am

Guess I can sleep in then.

[TheRed]

Trading might start 11am, but isn't the 90 minutes in between are buffer-time for NASDAQ to allow for the horde of orders to come in and get processed thereby setting the prices already the moment it began at 9:30am?

[aviador]

Is there any chart? Like when it opens does it instantly soar for few minutes, then tumbles as people cashing in minutes later, then starting going north again as limit orders get filled again and etc...

For lnkd the behaviour in ipo day was exactly as you are describing. But, for fb the trade volume and the hype are much larger.

The intraday chart for linkedin for the ipo date is shown at http://intradayta.blogspot.ca/2011/05/may-19-linkedin-ipo-nyse-lnkd.html

You can see some other charts and dates in yahoo finance using your standard yahoo account, for example.

[blainehamilton]

Popcorn in hand, waiting for the madness to start...

Hope you guys don't lose your shirts. IMOH, It's gonna top $100, then crash under IPO price by close.

[brunes]

Man if this thing is really going to open at $100 then my limit order won't do jack... but I'm not willing to raise limit order that high. $100 is crazy high.. you are not going to see a huge pop beyond $100 so the risk/reward ratio has now shifted.

[SyntheticForward]

Limit orders in at $50. Let's see how this goes!

Bloomberg/CNBC analysts are predicting a pop to $49 (completely agree that no one will be selling at $38) when it goes on the market.

[SyntheticForward]

Put in a limit order for 1000 shares at $50

Same order. Hoping for a pop to $100...

[onlyhonestopinion]

I think it'll pop, and come down closer to closing bell as people hurry to make their buck. (or cut their losses, depending on when they got their shares)


I say open around 45-50, close around 70-80, intra day high 106.

(we can check back here tomorrow to see how close i was, lol)

LinkedIn opened at $83ish with IPO price of $45 I believe. So, I'm gonna lean to an open of around $90 with a intra day high of $134 and finish at $101.

[McClane]

Do all IPOs show a similar pattern with strong movements up and down? I've followed some and that seems to be the case, although my sample is not meaningful by any means.

If that's the case and many people want to make a quick buck, why not doing it with every IPO?

[aviador]

LinkedIn opened at $83ish with IPO price of $45 I believe. So, I'm gonna lean to an open of around $90 with a intra day high of $134 and finish at $101.

I posted a link to LNKD IPO intraday chart (by the minute.) See post http://forums.redflagdeals.com/you-going-buy-any-facebook-1176830/11/#post14760781


Do all IPOs show a similar pattern with strong movements up and down? I've followed some and that seems to be the case, although my sample is not meaningful by any means.

If that's the case and many people want to make a quick buck, why not doing it with every IPO?

Because not all IPOs have the same trading behaviour. People are gambling in FB IPO because what has happened in other Internet business IPOs in the last two years. Check this link
http://www.benzinga.com/trading-ideas/long-ideas/12/05/2600000/daytraders-last-minute-guide-to-the-facebook-ipo (Daytrader's Last-Minute Guide to the Facebook IPO.) This article has some links to other intraday IPO's (3h.)

But, some other companies IPOs just fizzle or behave too slowly or stable to make a quick buck.

[boyoflondon]

Do all IPOs show a similar pattern with strong movements up and down? I've followed some and that seems to be the case, although my sample is not meaningful by any means.

If that's the case and many people want to make a quick buck, why not doing it with every IPO?

Generally yes, but with FB, it is hard to predict what this thing will do seeing how there is so much demand behind it.

[BennyBP]

Trading halted.. knew i should've placed my order before i went to bed.. lol. Oh well guess i can see what the open is now - doubt my order would've got filled anyway (planning to start at 40)


....and with that said, i was still able to place my limit order. (at 35, for good measure.)

[Tharnax]

Trading might start 11am, but isn't the 90 minutes in between are buffer-time for NASDAQ to allow for the horde of orders to come in and get processed thereby setting the prices already the moment it began at 9:30am?

That is correct, all the limit orders entered in after market close last night and now are likely started being routed to the Nasdaq. Those who were able to purchase the IPO will be receiving/have received their share allocation and it's likely sitting in their accounts. Those institutional clients who got the IPO, I say institutional because very few, if any retail clients would have received any allocation, high net-worth E*trade clients would be the exception. Those institutional clients would then decide what they are willing to sell their shares for, I doubt many would put market sell orders in. Between 9:30 - 10:45 those sell limit orders will fluctuate in price. Between 10:45 and 11, during the trading pause, Nasdaq will find the price where they can sell the most shares at a single price point, sort of like a silent auction. Basically, the Nasdaq will look at all the limit sell orders and all the limit buy orders at or above that price. At 11:00 the price will become the FB opening price.

The shares will the climb slightly as the buyers will likely out weigh the sellers and those sellers who want more $$$ for their stock will start to get filled from those limit buy orders above the opening price. Depending on how high and how fast buyers can react, they may pull their limit orders or leave it hoping the price will climb through and above their limit then they can turn around and try to sell for more. Current IPO holders who got it at $38 per share could ask $200 if they want, which is why FINRA doesn't allow market orders on IPO day. This limits someone from buying into ridiculous price territory where they instantly lose money, a price spike which no one can react fast enough resulting in as little as 100 shares bought/sold where someone makes a boat load and someone loses a boat load all in the span of a millisecond.

While we are waiting for open, read about order execution here (http://www.investopedia.com/articles/01/022801.asp#axzz1vE3MnCCK). Putting a limit order on the market gives the brokerage more leverage to act in the best interests of the client as a limit order states you will buy up to X price but the brokerage has no obligation to fill immediately - see my post about block orders earlier. This means, even if your limit buy order is above the current best sell offer your brokerage don't have an obligation to fulfill the order if they can determine they can get a better price at some point during the day.

[xplode]

Here is some info upon logging on to TD Waterhouse:

http://s17.postimage.org/xtld8ncbx/Screen_Shot_2012_05_18_at_9_14_29_AM.png

[stratux]

I guess actual trading will begin at 11 then

[Thanh]

Here is some info upon logging on to TD Waterhouse:

http://s17.postimage.org/xtld8ncbx/Screen_Shot_2012_05_18_at_9_14_29_AM.png

Facebook Inc. (FB) expected to begin trading Friday May 18, 2012

We anticipate that Facebook Inc. (Symbol: FB) will commence trading on the NASDAQ stock market starting Friday May 18, 2012. Please note the following:

* Due to a U.S. regulatory rule, Market orders. Buy On Stop and All or None orders submitted before the stock officially opens and has been traded will be rejected
* If you elect to place an order prior to the stock trading on the exchange, it will need to be a limit order.
* The first trade could occur as early as 9:30 a.m. ET, but could also take place later in the morning
* If you access a quote for Facebook Inc. prior to the stock trading on the exchange, the bid and ask will display as “zero.”

Further information will be provided if necessary or available. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to call a TD Waterhouse Investment Representative at 1-800-465-5463.

[Tharnax]

I guess actual trading will begin at 11 then

Yes, it's been mentioned a few times, if you don't believe RFD posts. You can read it here:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-facebook-pricing-20120518,0,3426310.story

or here:

http://techcrunch.com/2012/05/18/watch-facebook-ipo/

or here:

http://www.streetinsider.com/IPOs/NASDAQ+Confirms+Facebook+%28FB%29+IPO+Will+Open+at +11AM+ET/7453464.html

Hope that helps confirm trading time. However, it's still possible that trading on the Nasdaq won't start until slightly after 11.

[crimsona]

Might be a moot point if my limit order isn't even high enough to be accepted lol

[stratux]

I believe you saw it on news as well

[Tharnax]

I believe you saw it on news as well

Nope, I called my friend at the Nasdaq. ;) Yes, I'm joking. Yes, I did read it in the news shortly after market close last night. I didn't think it was necessary to post a link to the news story as the time was instantly broadcast almost everywhere.

[Mark77]

"There is insufficient FB available for short sale." :(

[Deal4US]

10 mins to go, just enter a limit order fro 3400 share @ $50:|

[Tharnax]

"There is insufficient FB available for short sale." :(

Reuters story approx: 15 minutes ago - Shorting Facebook on first day: Tough even for the gutsiest (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/18/facebook-shorts-idUSL1E8GI3CW20120518)

[red_skittles]

Good luck to everyone trying to get in when these go to market. Don't get too greedy :razz:

[bionicbadger]

This is going to be the biggest pump & dump ever

[Tharnax]

Sounds like it's tracking to $45 at open! Much better then $100, so this could be more interesting.

[Jon Lai]

I don't see a price yet...

[canibusIII]

I don't see a price yet...

Me neither!

[Tharnax]

I don't see a price yet...

Opening trade delayed for 5 minutes.

[Sniper001]

Me neither!

I put in a limit order of $50 for 50 shares as a gamble.. but Questrade just ate my money? Money was taken out of my account, but FB ticker doesn't show up on my portfolio. :-0

[kobefanatic2289]

BNN says 11:05am opening.

[Jon Lai]

Opening trade delayed for 5 minutes.

Where did you find that info and where did you find the $45 price?

[Tharnax]

Where did you find that info and where did you find the $45 price?

BNN.

68,000,000 bid/offer @ $42 ish at the moment.

[mmdc]

I put in a limit order of $50 for 50 shares as a gamble.. but Questrade just ate my money? Money was taken out of my account, but FB ticker doesn't show up on my portfolio. :-0

Same situation here.

[T3NSION]

Where did you find that info and where did you find the $45 price?

11:15 now lol

[Jon Lai]

11:15 now lol

Why do they keep delaying it... :( makes me sad.

[Sniper001]

Same situation here.

How many shares are people buying? I'm no risk taker.. but I figured I can gamble away $2000 so I just got 50 shares with a limit price of $50.

[Jon Lai]

BNN.

68,000,000 bid/offer @ $42 ish at the moment.

Link?

[TheRed]

BNN.

68,000,000 bid/offer @ $42 ish at the moment.

Please keep us updated! :) I set a limit order of 70 just in case...

[Tharnax]

Link?

Turn on your TV! :facepalm:

I think a board lot (100 share) limit order around $45 - $46 will get filled.

[Tharnax]

Please keep us updated! :) I set a limit order of 70 just in case...

Don't put your limit orders to high, max I would think at this point would be $60, but just my opinion.

[Jon Lai]

Turn on your TV! :facepalm:

I think a board lot (100 share) limit order around $45 - $46 will get filled.

In the middle of a lecture right now :lol:

[Tharnax]

In the middle of a lecture right now :lol:

Ah, fair enough. :D

[TheRed]

Don't put your limit orders to high, max I would think at this point would be $60, but just my opinion.

Why not? I would not get the best prices when I set limit order too high? (Given lnkd's opening pop, its reasonable, and lnkd don't even have the same hype as fb)

[T3NSION]

In the middle of a lecture right now :lol:

Use twitter

[McClane]

Why not? I would not get the best prices when I set limit order too high?
But what if it starts at 120, you buy at that point, and then goes down?

[Jon Lai]

over a minute past the quarter and nothing... any updates?

[Sniper001]

Why not? I would not get the best prices when I set limit order too high?

Because if the opening price is too high, you'll see it simply collapse shortly after.
$50 is a good limit price...
Now in for 100 shares. Now we wait and see. :razz:

[Tharnax]

Why not? I would not get the best prices when I set limit order too high?

Not necessarily, depends how/when you get filled. With a limit of $70 you can get the shares at $70. I now "think" you will have a hard time filling a $70 purchase above $70 later, just suggesting to limit your risk.

[TheRed]

But what if it starts at 120, you buy at that point, and then goes down?

No no, it means the max price I'm willing to pay is 70. If it opens at 52, then I will get it at 52. 70 is just the limit price ceiling.

[4flava]

Because if the opening price is too high, you'll see it simply collapse shortly after.
$50 is a good limit price...
Now in for 100 shares. Now we wait and see. :razz:

Same same.. 100 shares at $50. Can't wait for da ride brah. :lol:

[T3NSION]

over a minute past the quarter and nothing... any updates?

Delayed again

[Jon Lai]

Delayed again

At this rate we might have to wait until Monday...

[TheRed]

Same same.. 100 shares at $50. Can't wait for da ride brah. :lol:

I'm afraid if it opens at 51, then you won't get your order filled. Thats just my concern.

[McClane]

No no, it means the max price I'm willing to pay is 70. If it opens at 52, then I will get it at 52. 70 is just the limit price ceiling.
Oh, I thought you were going to use a huge price, like 200 or something.

I'm buying some MCD instead. :lol:

[mc_molineux]

I went to modify my order (RBC Direct Investing) but it looks like the cash has already been taken to fill my order. I had a limit order at $50.

[TheRed]

Btw I think modifying your limit orders won't be a good idea as it needs to be routed to NASDAQ prior to printing/opening so that it can begin trading the moment it goes live. The msg I got from IB.

[stratux]

on questrade is it better to set it at limit-as-open or just the normal limit assuming we all want to buy as soon as it opens

[Tharnax]

No no, it means the max price I'm willing to pay is 70. If it opens at 52, then I will get it at 52. 70 is just the limit price ceiling.

Correct, if it opens at $120 you won't get filled. However, if it trades at 52 it doesn't mean you will get it at $52 you will get it anywhere between $52 and $70 as buy orders are filled and as other lower limit buy orders are passed.

[Sniper001]

I'm afraid if it opens at 51, then you won't get your order filled. Thats just my concern.

If that happens, it wasn't meant to be. :razz:

[TheRed]

Correct, if it opens at $120 you won't get filled. However, if it trades at 52 it doesn't mean you will get it at $52 you will get it anywhere between $52 and $70 as buy orders are filled and as other lower limit buy orders are passed.

Oo ic, thanks for your suggestion. I modified it to 60 since NASDAQ is taking forever.

[TheRed]

Oo ic, thanks for your suggestion. I modified it to 60 since NASDAQ is taking forever.

CNBC: Traders Having Problems Changing, Canceling Orders Ahead of Facebook IPO: WSJ (story developing)

Hm it may not be a good idea to change your orders again.

[4flava]

I'm afraid if it opens at 51, then you won't get your order filled. Thats just my concern.

LOLZ. small order just for the hell of it. I won't cry if it doesn't get filled. .. maybe I'll sulk a little :confused:

[Jon Lai]

Any news on when it's going to open?

Edit; OPENED

[mmdc]

Now.

[Sniper001]

LOLZ. small order just for the hell of it. I won't cry if it doesn't get filled. .. maybe I'll sulk a little :confused:

Hope it works out for the both of us... I feel I'll get shafted not for the limit price of $50 but because its only 100 shares and on Questrade (i.e. crappy broker.)

[TheRed]

Live

[BennyBP]

now at $43 - its live

[kobefanatic2289]

open at $42-43... 12% increase.

[Jon Lai]

Anyone's orders getting filled yet?

[TheRed]

Got in at 43 before it went down :(

[4flava]

wow, WabBroker getting hammered. LOL

[Mark77]

$42.2

[stratux]

did ppls orders get filled mine still sitting

[Jon Lai]

Looks like it opened at 42.05

[Mark77]

$42.02

[Mark77]

$41.64

How are those quick flippers earlier in this thread doing? :lol:

[Tharnax]

$42.30 filled! Limit order @ $45.

[TheRed]

did ppls orders get filled mine still sitting

lol its crashing down

[Mark77]

$41.0 :lol:

[TheRed]

$42.30 filled! Limit order @ $45.

When was your execution time? Mine is 11:30:15...at the moment I was changing my order too (again!) then submitted :( Got in at 43.00 exact

[Mark77]

$40.56

[BennyBP]

Limit order at 35... Looks like it might get filled if it keeps dropping...............

[Tharnax]

Low 40.41 and falling.

[LarryLat]

holy batman, volatility! >6% down swing in two minutes

[T3NSION]

Below 40 soon

[TheRed]

Holy moly...40.22

[Mark77]

Heading to $40.

My condolences to those with fills so far.

[Tharnax]

When was your execution time? Mine is 11:30:15...at the moment I was changing my order too (again!) then submitted :( Got in at 43.00 exact

11:27am, I guess it went up quick to just over $43 then fell quickly.

[TheRed]

Now I know the reason why insiders were dumping this stock and increased offering size :facepalm:

below 40 soon :(

[Sniper001]

My order isn't even filled yet... blah.

[Mark77]

Just hit $40

[monomono]

Oh well, my FB investment was in RIM before. I can't believe this can be worse ;)

[canibusIII]

My order isn't even filled yet... blah.

Me neither! I'm with TD Waterhouse

[TheRed]

My order isn't even filled yet... blah.

Good for you. hehe.

[Jon Lai]

Tons of support at $40

[LarryLat]

Heading to $40.

My condolences to those with fills so far.

this is a wealth transfer from greedy retail speculators into the hands of corporate America. Invest into corporate America through ETF and be happy.

[Tharnax]

Heading to $40.

My condolences to those with fills so far.

It was expected, I figured the open would be the high of the day, I was with in 10% but the starting price was much lower then I expected.

[Deal4US]

Mine order still open so I just cancel my order. waitting....

[brunes]

Heading to $40.

My condolences to those with fills so far.

Have not checked my fill yet but I am waiting a few hours before making any judgements

Keep it bookmarked! http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chls=IntervalBasedLine&q=NASDAQ:FB&ntsp=0&fct=big

[Mark77]

$40 seems to be a key support level. All hell break loose if that fails to hold I bet...

[TheRed]

Darn msft is falling too :(

[Jon Lai]

$40 seems to be a key support level. All hell break loose if that fails to hold I bet...

I saw it hit $39.99 briefly. I'm cancelling my order - man, even cancelling my order takes forever. Is it just me or is it Questrade?

[Sniper001]

Darn msft is falling too :(

Everything is falling now!

[mmdc]

I saw it hit $39.99 briefly. I'm cancelling my order - man, even cancelling my order takes forever. Is it just me or is it Questrade?

Mine has not yet executed as well, so it's not just you.

[Mark77]

finance.yahoo.com says it was at 39.94 Jon Lai.

[Jon Lai]

What's with people putting in all these random bids like $40.9999?

[deal_with_singh]

TD showing low of $38.20...I'm already down $2k on 1500 shares :cry:

[Jon Lai]

finance.yahoo.com says it was at 39.94 Jon Lai.

Dunno, I'm doing it by Questrade's numbers.

[4flava]

edited my order to $40 and got filled.

[red_skittles]

lol where's that guy who was putting everything he had into fb thinking he could make an easy 30% on this. I don't mean to make light of his situation but this is a prime example of why you should steer clear of anything that others think will make them rich quick

[deal_with_singh]

Broke support, coming down like a rock

[Mark77]

Big gap once the $40 level was breached, $39.59. Wow...

A 40,000 share block that's panic'ing to get out at $39.64. This could get ugly.

[Sniper001]

edited my order to $40 and got filled.

On Questrade?
I'm using CAD funds so I'm assuming it will convert to USD.. or is that the reason why I'm not getting filled?

[brunes]

I saw it hit $39.99 briefly. I'm cancelling my order - man, even cancelling my order takes forever. Is it just me or is it Questrade?


finance.yahoo.com says it was at 39.94 Jon Lai.

I'd reccomend using Google Finance... it's the only site with a free streaming real time feed. Yahoo has one but it it costs $, if you are not paying then the price you see is not live. The Google price and chart are live and update every second. PS - Down to $39.20 as I type...

[BennyBP]

Im still sitting pretty at 35... was tempted to buy a few at 40 but held off, i think im going to wait this one out. If my order gets filled at 35 i still believe this stock will rebound later on, long day ahead of us.

[deal_with_singh]

On Questrade?
I'm using CAD funds so I'm assuming it will convert to USD.. or is that the reason why I'm not getting filled?

With TD my CAD fnuds aren't converted...I got in at

250 shares at $42.33
600 shares at $41.11
650 shares at $40.11

[Mark77]

$39! Panic time!

[Tharnax]

TD showing low of $38.20...I'm already down $2k on 1500 shares :cry:

Ouch! Sorry to hear it. We all knew it was high risk. I only picked up a 100 shares for fun, sort of like paying texas hold'em with friends for $20 each it is a very, very small portion of my investment portfolio but like most didn't want to be "left out." :lol:

[TheRed]

At this rate, its gonna be lower than IPO price! Darn!

[deal_with_singh]

F**K ITS GOING TO DIP BELOW THE IPO PRICE :cry:

[mmdc]

It's about to fall below $38.

[Jon Lai]

Who let the dogs out?

[kobefanatic2289]

Looks like its going to go below 38

[4flava]

On Questrade?
I'm using CAD funds so I'm assuming it will convert to USD.. or is that the reason why I'm not getting filled?

On waterhouse with my us trading account.

[Sniper001]

Quote: Bid: 38.12 | Ask: 38.13 | Last Trade: 38.13

Ouchhhhhhhhhhhhhh, glad my order didn't get filled still.

[Tharnax]

IPO price hit!

[red_skittles]

Once it goes below $38 its going to get annihilated

[dealman5]

Black Friday???

Any idea which mutuals got in?

[Jon Lai]

It seems like Questrade doesn't feel like cancelling my order, or is it NASDAQ?

[4flava]

wow back to IPO price.

[Deal4US]

Im IN, here it is:


Order Status FAQ
Order Status as of 18 May 2012
Symbol/Name Status
Date/Time Order ID Action Quantity Price Market Good
Through Settlement
Instruction Action
FB - FACEBOOK INC CL A Filled
18 May 2012 11:45 AM EST PID 0625 Buy 4,300 40.00 US Day DA

FB - FACEBOOK INC CL A Cancel Submitted
18 May 2012 10:50 AM EST PAQ 0418 Buy 3,440 Limit 50.00 US Day DA No Action Available

Important Notice
Order Status reflects all known information to RBC Direct InvestingTM at this time. If an order appears as Open or Expired, it is possible that your order has been filled but that RBC Direct Investing has not yet been notified.

[deal_with_singh]

Down almost 5k :cry:

I'm thinking of doubling my position here...

[mmdc]

It seems like Questrade doesn't feel like cancelling my order, or is it NASDAQ?

Time of Order: 09:35:07 EDT
Status of order: Canceling

[Justin]

What is wrong with Waterhouse? Order is not getting filled.

[BennyBP]

Black Friday???



+1

[TheRed]

Quote: Bid: 38.12 | Ask: 38.13 | Last Trade: 38.13

Ouchhhhhhhhhhhhhh, glad my order didn't get filled still.

Its a good luck to have an incompetent broker then? lmao...ahh FB is a selling frenzy by insiders and not enough "outsiders" buying it :(

[deal_with_singh]

What is wrong with Waterhouse? Order is not getting filled.

Cancel it and put it in again. Thats waht I had to do

[Sniper001]

It seems like Questrade doesn't feel like cancelling my order, or is it NASDAQ?

Same boat here. I had 2 orders: One for 40 shares and one for 70 shares. Placed them in that order. I canceled both, but only the order for 70 shares was canceled. The other 40 shares is showing up as "Canceling" but is not processing.

[Jabb]

my limit order didnt get filled so i tried cancelling it and its listed as "cancelling"......wtf?

[Sniper001]

Its a good luck to have an incompetent broker then? lmao...ahh FB is a selling frenzy by insiders and not enough "outsiders" buying it :(

Haha I know. I never thought I'd be happy about having an incompetent broker i.e. Questrade lol.

[ykshum]

It's funny how some of your are saying $40 is a "key" support and such.. the stock's been trading for less than a hour.. what support are you referring to? $40 is a whole number and that isn't going to be a key support...

Key support would be what most ppl got their shares for in the IPO if anything.. I wouldn't call that key either..

Gd luck to you all, you're all in a very risky stock filled with young investors with very little knowledge of stocks.. guys with money will be happy taking their money.

[deal_with_singh]

Same boat here. I had 2 orders: One for 40 shares and one for 70 shares. Placed them in that order. I canceled both, but only the order for 70 shares was canceled. The other 40 shares is showing up as "Canceling" but is not processing.

It's nasdaq....CNBC is reporting live about the issue.

[Sniper001]

my limit order didnt get filled so i tried cancelling it and its listed as "cancelling"......wtf?

If you are on Questrade, same with me.

[Jabb]

If you are on Questrade, same with me.

yep on questrade

i hope it didnt actually fill :S

[Mark77]

It's funny how some of your are saying $40 is a "key" support and such.. the stock's been trading for less than a hour.. what support are you referring to? $40 is a whole number and that isn't going to be a key support...

I was looking at the real-time numbers on the order book. There was a massive buying block @ $40, hence the $40 support level. Once that block was satiated by the sell side, then obviously that support level broke. There was very little interest, at the time, below $40.



Gd luck to you all, you're all in a very risky stock filled with young investors with very little knowledge of stocks.. guys with money will be happy taking their money.

I personally don't own a single share and won't unless it gets pounded to $10 or something like that...

[charliebrown]

bouncy bouncy

Seems like 38 is support for the day :)

[deal_with_singh]

bouncy bouncy

Seems like 38 is support for the day :)

CNBC is reporting that under writers are building support at $38. They are not going to let it fall below that price.

[4flava]

Slowly reccovering. I think BUY BUY BUY!!!! :cheesygri

[Tharnax]

CNBC is reporting that under writers are building support at $38. They are not going to let it fall below that price.

Well today anyway!

[indo]

i think we'll trade under 35 over the next 3 months so no need to Buy just yet.

[4flava]

up it goes guys!!! hang on for da ride!! :D

[TheRed]

bouncy bouning 39.47 please cross 40 soon :)

[Deal4US]

39.43 almost break even :)

[Tharnax]

Wow, Zynga halted after a 13% decline!

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/zynga-halted-after-fb-debut-13-drop-2012-05-18?link=MW_latest_news

[Justin]

Nothing will fill on Waterhouse. I dont want to cancel and place another as I could end up with double. I tired changing my limit price but no luck.

[TheRed]

Lesson to self (many times already): Always observe the market first on opening and time your entry point.:confused: Like many stocks, there's always going to be dump first before pumping... enter at dumping...

[Sniper001]

39.43 almost break even :)

In 50 shares @ $39.50. Order executed.

[Tharnax]

100 more @ $38.20, so average cost is now around $40.

[canibusIII]

Nothing will fill on Waterhouse. I dont want to cancel and place another as I could end up with double. I tired changing my limit price but no luck.

Same here changed my order twice, didn't fill, just cancelled it and calling them to confirm it is indeed cancelled before placing another. Currentily in pending cancel status

[deal_with_singh]

Nothing will fill on Waterhouse. I dont want to cancel and place another as I could end up with double. I tired changing my limit price but no luck.

I got my 1500 shares from waterhouse...I told you...if you put an order before shares started trading, you'll have to cancel it and put it in again. That's what I did and got an instant fill.

[4flava]

Looks like good support building at $39-40 range

[onlyhonestopinion]

Originally in at $41 (50 shares), bought 150 more shares at $38.65. So averaging pretty well. Hoping for a nice $43 close and make a small profit.

[deal_with_singh]

Back above $40....lets go for $50 :)

[4flava]

Nothing will fill on Waterhouse. I dont want to cancel and place another as I could end up with double. I tired changing my limit price but no luck.

I cancelled waterhouse twice and it was fast. Takes 2 mins about.

[TheRed]

40 breakaway~~

[TheRed]

Back above $40....lets go for $50 :)

Nooooooooooooo 39.81

[4flava]

back above $40....lets go for $50 :)

amen!!

[canibusIII]

I got my 1500 shares from waterhouse...I told you...if you put an order before shares started trading, you'll have to cancel it and put it in again. That's what I did and got an instant fill.

Just did that as well. Filled at 40.19 the second I redid it. The second one still shows pending cancel

[Sniper001]

Anybody's order status is still "Canceling."
Ridiculous.

I have 50 shares executed, and 40 shares in "Canceling" mode from before it started trading... and it's not canceling so I can't get my cash to buy shares now. >:(

[TheRed]

amen!!

amen!!! x3

[Kaitlyn]

I didn't put any limit orders for my CDN account

my USD account only had $1k in it

I screwed up my limit order ... meant to do a limit $50 but thank god wasn't tihnking last night and did a limit at $38

So I got a whole 25 shares when it touched back down at $38 flat...

25 @ $38 is better than none I guess! I'd be pretty shocked if it fell below $38 today...

[deal_with_singh]

Anybody's order status is still "Canceling."
Ridiculous.

I have 50 shares executed, and 40 shares in "Canceling" mode from before it started trading... and it's not canceling so I can't get my cash to buy shares now. >:(

Call in and ask them to adjust your buying power...thats what I had to do...its not your brokers fault...its Nasdaq

[Jon Lai]

Anybody's order status is still "Canceling."
Ridiculous.

I have 50 shares executed, and 40 shares in "Canceling" mode from before it started trading... and it's not canceling so I can't get my cash to buy shares now. >:(

Were those 50 shares from the original 40 and 70 that you placed? Or was it a new order? I thought the 70 was cancelled successfully, only the 40 was not.

Should I be worried whether or not my cancelling order might execute? :cry:

[deal_with_singh]

ONCE AGAIN ABOVE $40!!!! LETS GO $50!!! :) Once we cross 4200M shares, the entire float would have traded hands, after which this should shoot up!

[deal_with_singh]

CNBC just reported Nasdaq had a glitch where they weren't able to accept any new orders which is why the stock tanked from $42 to $38 in minutes...its fine now....this means we should be ready to go soon :)

250M shares traded as of right now

[BennyBP]

I cracked.. got in at $40 flat !!! HERE WE GOOOO

[Sniper001]

Were those 50 shares from the original 40 and 70 that you placed? Or was it a new order? I thought the 70 was cancelled successfully, only the 40 was not.

Should I be worried whether or not my cancelling order might execute? :cry:

The 50 shares were from the new order that I just put through.
I first put an order for 40 shares... than I put another one at 70... both weren't executing. So I canceled both. The 70 shares one canceled (and I saw my cash balance increase), and the 40 shares is still "canceling" so I don't have my cash for that. With the cash from the cancellation of the 70 shares, I bought 50 shares.

[TheRed]

CNBC just reported Nasdaq had a glitch where they weren't able to accept any new orders which is why the stock tanked from $42 to $38 in minutes...its fine now....this means we should be ready to go soon :)

250M shares traded as of right now

Phew hopefully that was the case. NASDAQ is incompetent :mad: But the chart alone probably already scare some individual investors. -_-

[Justin]

Tired to cancel so I could rebuy. Cancel pending :facepalm: Nice work Waterhouse. Cancel arleady so I can put in a new order since you didnt fill my limit order originally.

[niroopg]

Timmmmmmmmmmmberrrrrrrrrrr

[mc_molineux]

I'm still at "cancel submitted". But I think my order was filled since my cash account was drained, but who knows.

I don't like these delays though. I'm a small potato to RBC, so really they could do whatever they wanted with my order... cancel it if the stock skyrockets and I don't get anything, or else fill it at the day's high (limit order of $50) if it tanks.

It's terrible. Feel so helpless with the delays.

[stratux]

Btw guys got message from RBC direct investing..

delay for updated order executions...so it can be filled sitting it your portfolio but u may not see it in holdings as of yet

[deal_with_singh]

Tired to cancel so I could rebuy. Cancel pending :facepalm: Nice work Waterhouse. Cancel arleady so I can put in a new order since you didnt fill my limit order originally.

As mentioned this is not Waterhouse's fault...its Nasdaqs...

[mc_molineux]

Btw guys got message from RBC direct investing..

delay for updated order executions...so it can be filled sitting it your portfolio but u may not see it in holdings as of yet

How did they contact you?

[mmdc]

05/18/2012 12:20:38 Important notice: trading delays of Facebook (FB).
Numerous exchanges and routes are reporting delays accepting, cancelling, and executing orders for Facebook (FB). If you place an order for Facebook today you are likely to experience these delays. Questrade is in communications with the markets and is working to resolve these issues.

Patiently waiting.

[BennyBP]

tipping 41, lets make some money

[deal_with_singh]

My 7k loss is now a 2k Profit :) Looking for 10-20k profit by the end of the day :)

New resistance at $41.50

I'm gonna try flipping for $500 profit at a time now. Moved my order for 1000 shares at $41.50

[bionicbadger]

28 million share bid at $38, the syndicate (underwriters) don't want this to fail right away because it will make them look like idiots for promoting it. Its a giant pump and dump

[SyntheticForward]

41.65...

500 shares at 41.90 so still lots of room to go up!

[Sniper001]

My 7k loss is now a 2k Profit :) Looking for 10-20k profit by the end of the day :)

Don't get greedy!! Take some profits.

[deal_with_singh]

Don't get greedy!! Take some profits.

I have sell orders at $45, $49, and $55.

[Mark77]

So much for those 20% gains that a few posters were insisting would happen right off the bat.

Back to sleep I go, I got a flight all night to be on...

[onlyhonestopinion]

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1180606--facebook-sued-by-users-for-15-billion-in-suit-over-internet-tracking?bn=1

Perfect Timing!

[SyntheticForward]

Zuck's speaking... stock going through the roof at $50!!!...























... hopefully...

[Mark77]

Anyone actually succeeded in putting a short on this?

[Ethan15]

So instead shorting on the stock, I put some money in Futures Market on FB closing stock price (INTRADE)

http://imgur.com/DI58g

Contract links: https://www.intrade.com/v4/markets/contract/?contractId=761230

Before opening, the odds of FB closing at 45+ is 80%. I entered into short position (at 70%) for this contract and I've tripled my money :cheesygri ... not bad!

[Sniper001]

I have sell orders at $45, $49, and $55.
You're so optimistic lol. It's unlikely that we will hit even $50 today. We'll see. :razz:

[SyntheticForward]

Anyone actually succeeded in putting a short on this?

Why are you shorting? If you bought at $38 you'd be up almost 10%!!!

No free lunch brah.

Still looking for an engineering job? Have you considered a MFin/MFE? Seems like it would fit given your background and pretty pref-stigious

[SyntheticForward]

So instead betting on the stock, I put some money in Futures Market on FB closing stock price(INTRADE)

http://imgur.com/DI58g

Before opening, the odds of FB closing at 45+ is 70%. I entered into short position for this contract and I've tripled my money :cheesygri ... not bad!

Mark here's your short! ALL IN SHORT!

[Sniper001]

Anyone actually succeeded in putting a short on this?
You can't short Facebook today. May 29th (I believe) is the first day you can short Facebook...

[SyntheticForward]

There are currently 101 users browsing this thread. (64 members and 37 guests)

<--- Holy F....

[deal_with_singh]

You're so optimistic lol. It's unlikely that we will hit even $50 today. We'll see. :razz:

We seem to be hovering between $40.80 - $41.50

[SyntheticForward]

you can't short facebook today. May 29th (i believe) is the first day you can short facebook...

(intrade)

[Sniper001]

Facebook collapsing......

[mc_molineux]

$40.25.

Has anyone with RBC Direct Investing gotten an order through?

[Deal4US]

$40.25.

Has anyone with RBC Direct Investing gotten an order through?

i did 4300 share @ 40

[jfall]

$40.25.

Has anyone with RBC Direct Investing gotten an order through?

I had a limit order, it didn't get filled so I canceled it about 20 mins after FB started trading. Been stuck at cancel submitted ever since, at this point I have no idea if my order is canceled or if im going to end up with shares ugh

[mc_molineux]

I had a limit order, it didn't get filled so I canceled it about 20 mins after FB started trading. Been stuck at cancel submitted ever since, at this point I have no idea if my order is canceled or if im going to end up with shares ugh

Pretty much the same as me. Brutal.

[deal_with_singh]

i did 4300 share @ 40

Nice! I wish I bought there :(

[deal_with_singh]

Charts looking good...RSI showing oversold.

[Deal4US]

Nice! I wish I bought there :(

a quick click on cancel button save me 7K

[SyntheticForward]

Facebook collapsing......

Facebook on sale!!! Nicer than a Groupon deal!!! #buybuybuy

[ZenOps]

So... After the drop from $42 to $38 (the IPO price) and back to $40 or so, the volume is now down to a trickle...

So... Meh? The people in on the IPO have until the end of the day to sell or they are required to hold for six months.

[Sniper001]

Call in and ask them to adjust your buying power...thats what I had to do...its not your brokers fault...its Nasdaq

Would this work though?
They could hypothetically say that my order was executed and that it's just not showing up on my portfolio.
I'll call Questrade now. They are probably being bombarded with calls though.

[engo]

i did 4300 share @ 40

Nice profit if price goes high today.

[deal_with_singh]

We've once again crossed $41 :) Lets see if I see here somewhere

[mc_molineux]

So... Meh? The people in on the IPO have until the end of the day to sell or they are required to hold for six months.

So you're thinking it could tank towards the end of the day as these people realize there is no big payday and will bail before the markets close so they don't have to hold for six months?

[SyntheticForward]

So... After the drop from $42 to $38 (the IPO price) and back to $40 or so, the volume is now down to a trickle...

So... Meh? The people in on the IPO have until the end of the day to sell or they are required to hold for six months.

#buybuybuy!!!!

[deal_with_singh]

Would this work though?
They could hypothetically say that my order was executed and that it's just not showing up on my portfolio.
I'll call Questrade now. They are probably being bombarded with calls though.

Well TD did this for me, no idea about Quest.

[niroopg]

So you're thinking it could tank towards the end of the day as these people realize there is no big payday and will bail before the markets close so they don't have to hold for six months?

Well of course. A Lot of people are in for the quick flip. If you think this company is worth a long term investment, thats hilarious. PE is garbage, just hit with 15 billion dollar class action ( as expected), etc etc. no one is gonna lock in for 6 months

[niroopg]

Nice profit if price goes high today.

Nice loss if price goes down. I like stating the obv too.

[Deal4US]

Nice loss if price goes down. I like stating the obv too.

Whatever, Im in for 10% +/-. If i gain, i buy a Honda Civic :) and if I loose I will continue to drive my 10 years old VW Jetta. As long as I am comfortable with that, doesn't matter what ppl say.

[deal_with_singh]

Just sold everything at $41.50 and picked back up at $40.87

[dgodsell]

Why hasn't an options market developed for FB?

[Sniper001]

Well TD did this for me, no idea about Quest.

Yeah, they declined.. they said they can't increase my buying power because the orders COULD have executed. Bleh. At least my limit price on that order for 40 shares was $43. And I'm in for 50 shares at $39.50. Average of the two is $41. So worse case scenario is I don't make any money.. best case is the order will get canceled and I make a profit.

Stupid NASDAQ. But the trader I spoke to said all the orders should be cleared up before the close.. they are processing now.

[deal_with_singh]

Yeah, they declined.. they said they can't increase my buying power because the orders COULD have executed. Bleh. At least my limit price on that order for 40 shares was $43. And I'm in for 50 shares at $39.50. Average of the two is $41. So worse case scenario is I don't make any money.. best case is the order will get canceled and I make a profit.

Stupid NASDAQ. But the trader I spoke to said all the orders should be cleared up before the close.. they are processing now.

Only made $400....need another $400 to pick up a tube of some moose :P

[brunes]

I am thinking of getting out of this while I am roughly even (up about $100 right now).. I just read that the reason it bounced back up to the $40 range is because the underwriters stepped in and bought a ton to boost the price... that is not a good sign. We could have a Zynga repeat.

[niroopg]

Whatever, Im in for 10% +/-. If i gain, i buy a Honda Civic :) and if I loose I will continue to drive my 10 years old VW Jetta. As long as I am comfortable with that, doesn't matter what ppl say.

The comment wasnt directed at you. It was at the guy saying if prices go up, youll make a nice profit. Well, no ****, the opposite is true as well.

You're right, as long as you are comfortable with the decisions and have an out, I have no problem with the decision to invest.

[engo]

Just sold everything at $41.50 and picked back up at $40.87

I sold all mine at $41.50 too. Got in close to bottom when the dip happened early of the day.

[Justin]

Cancel still pending. It has been over 1 hour.:facepalm:

[niroopg]

I am thinking of getting out of this while I am roughly even (up about $100 right now).. I just read that the reason it bounced back up to the $40 range is because the underwriters stepped in and bought a ton to boost the price... that is not a good sign. We could have a Zynga repeat.

Or Shanda Games. Greedy underwriters with overvaluation leading the plummeting stock. As long as u get out before the end of the day should be okay.

[Mazman08]

I am thinking of getting out of this while I am roughly even (up about $100 right now).. I just read that the reason it bounced back up to the $40 range is because the underwriters stepped in and bought a ton to boost the price... that is not a good sign. We could have a Zynga repeat.

Believe it was 1 Billion @ 38 bucks.

[onlyhonestopinion]

I had a limit order, it didn't get filled so I canceled it about 20 mins after FB started trading. Been stuck at cancel submitted ever since, at this point I have no idea if my order is canceled or if im going to end up with shares ugh

I also had the "cancelling subitted" message but my funds were freed up. So was able to buy in the $38s.

[Deal4US]

niroopg : No big deal. :lol:

[blainehamilton]

So what are all you new millionaires going to do with all your money from your facebook IPO flipping?

Oh, wait...

[Anonymouse]

Isn't the P/E like 80x even at this price? You people are clearly not old enough to remember the 90s and early 00s.

[Sniper001]

Isn't the P/E like 80x even at this price? You people are clearly not old enough to remember the 90s and early 00s.

I think everybody here knows about the bubble that happened during that time.. most people here don't intend to keep the stock long but instead sell it after making a quick profit.

[jfall]

Cancel still pending. It has been over 1 hour.:facepalm:

Mine too, so unfair. I have no idea if I have stock or not, no options to trade it if I do.

[dgodsell]

Anyone thinking of selling options on stock they own?

I bet there'll be a huge appetite for options.

[mc_molineux]

Mine too, so unfair. I have no idea if I have stock or not, no options to trade it if I do.

+1 on this. Big fail by RBC.

[Justin]

Mine too, so unfair. I have no idea if I have stock or not, no options to trade it if I do.

Agree. How am i supposed to sell to get out if I dont ever know if I have the shares to begin with?

[Tharnax]

I also closed out my position at $41.50. Made enough to pay for a 24 for May 24 weekend! ;) Ah well, the lead up hype was fun and as long as you came out ahead, it's all good!

[mc_molineux]

Looks like the dump is on.

[BryceS]

I also closed out my position at $41.50. Made enough to pay for a 24 for May 24 weekend! ;) Ah well, the lead up hype was fun and as long as you came out ahead, it's all good!

I've cashed out my principal.

The 14 shares I own are all the gains I made....LNKD is doubled its IPO price 12 months later, so why not hold it and see what happens.

[Jon Lai]

Anyone on questrade still stuck on canceling?

[gimmegimme]

Agree. How am i supposed to sell to get out if I dont ever know if I have the shares to begin with?
Title of this thread should be changed to "Did I buy any Facebook?" :mad:

[Tharnax]

The 14 shares I own are all the gains I made....LNKD is doubled its IPO price 12 months later, so why not hold it and see what happens.

FB ≠ LNKD

GM drops 10 Million in ad dollars & $15 Billion lawsuit in 48 hour window. FB is and still is a high risk play, "GSV Capital, a listed investment vehicle that bought Facebook shares before the IPO, slumped 18 percent to $13.15."

NASDAQ: GSVC (http://gsvcap.com/) 13.15 -18.32% 2:09PM EST on May 18, 2012

[mmdc]

GM drops 10 Billion in ad dollars

$10 million, not $10 billion.

[BryceS]

FB ≠ LNKD
I did the same strategy with LNKD.

My holdings of LNKD is simply the profit I made off of their IPO...and will most likely be liquidating them soon to lock in my 100% gain.

There is no risks for me as even if FB drops to $20/share I'm not losing any money I didn't have before.

I always cash out my principal on IPO days and keep the profit in shares.

80% of my portfolio is in simple blue chip dividend paying stocks.

[TheRed]

There was ample warnings ahead about Facebook IPO, I guess they were true. After doubling down and averaging came out with small profit. I have no firm reason to hold this overnight till Monday. Everyone seems to be cashing in, stock price will tumbles to opening IPo price at the end of the day. After news about greedy underwriters buying back stocks, I was sure that this is a high flying stock with artificial support. Plus the news about the stupidly timed law suite. Without underwriters support this stock would surely be the first IPO tech bubble to come crashing down the moment it hit public trading.

/out.

Other investment vehicles that carry FB came crashing down harder too

[BennyBP]

So i guess i cant place a sell-on-stop order at $40 because im holding an odd lot, got to decide if i want to hold this or bail.... what to do what to do

[brunes]

I've cashed out my principal.

The 14 shares I own are all the gains I made....LNKD is doubled its IPO price 12 months later, so why not hold it and see what happens.

ON a related note, if you compare them, LinkedIn is mirroring the movement of FB

http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1337371200000&chddm=1173&chls=IntervalBasedLine&cmpto=NASDAQ:FB&cmptdms=0&q=NYSE:LNKD&ntsp=0

Not sure what that means, exactly. Could mean that the FB pricing movement is more tied to sector moves today. Or could simply mean than LKND is trading along with facebook. Or could mean nothing.

[Tharnax]

$10 million, not $10 billion.

Apologies, you're correct. I was focusing on the "new" civil suit number. - correcting it above momentarily.


I always cash out my principal on IPO days and keep the profit in shares.

Fair enough BryceS certainly no "real" risk and a reasonable strategy.

[Abel4Life]

Stupid question.

Linked in is trading at around $100 per share. Facebook at around $40 per share.

Comparing the two, why is Linked In trading at such a high price?

[Magoomba]

Stupid question.

Linked in is trading at around $100 per share. Facebook at around $40 per share.

Comparing the two, why is Linked In trading at such a high price?

I wonder the same. At least Facebook is profitable even though they are asking for pie-in-the-sky valuation.
Linked In P/E is over 600!

[proteinJunkie]

and there goes the tumble to starting price slowly.

[Justin]

Ok, this sucks.

This is what my TD Waterhouse page says:
Cancel Request: 12:08PM EDT
Status: 50 filled at $42.00 a share at 2:28PM EDT

How is that even possible?:facepalm:

[TheRed]

I wonder the same. At least Facebook is profitable even though they are asking for pie-in-the-sky valuation.
Linked In P/E is over 600!

Well compared to Lnkd, Facebook is better valued with a PE of 150ish. Price doesn't matter, what matters is the market cap valuation. Lnkd market cap is only 10.33B while FB is 113.23B. So by market cap valuation, FB is 10x higher than Lnkd. Comparing prices based on the same number of shares outstanding ratio as lnkd, FB would have been priced at 38 x 10 = $388 compared to lnkd's $98.50.

[mc_molineux]

Still stuck on cancel pending since soon after trading started. I'll be pissed if TD finally updates my account after close to show I bought shares. Would give me no change to do anything with them today.

+1. I just know that somehow RBC is going to stick me with shares purchased at the highest price of the day.

[TheRed]

I guess it falls back to IPO opening price by the end of the day...

[kobefanatic2289]

Stupid question.

Linked in is trading at around $100 per share. Facebook at around $40 per share.

Comparing the two, why is Linked In trading at such a high price?

It's definitely a natural comparison to make. FBs revenue stream is much more volatile and unsustainable, where as LinkedIn's revenue system is more reliable. For comparison sake, FB earned just under $4 billion last year, where as LinkedIn made just over $500 million. FB uses ad clicks for its monetizing scheme and LinkedIn uses some sort of subscriber system.

Also, based on the metrics that FB is operating under currently, they are expected to earn revenue in the $15 billion range. Which is obviously quite high for a company with a declining revenue over the past 3 years.

[TheRed]

Ok, this sucks.

This is what my TD Waterhouse page says:
Cancel Request: 12:08PM EDT
Status: 50 filled at $42.00 a share at 2:28PM EDT

How is that even possible?:facepalm:

Arghh...call and complaint. How come the big 5 banks are incompetent when it comes to investment trading when discount online brokers can fill orders instantly?!

[TheRed]

So the only people got rich are insiders and outsiders get burned, as always >:(>:(

[proteinJunkie]

isn't that how it always goes? rich get richer?


I am waiting to sell it once it gets to the price i bought it or a bit above, not worth the headaches .

[40gates]

If you lose any money, consider it a good lesson. This is reminiscent of the tech bubble of 2000. A few thousand dollars is nothing compared to not repeating this mistake when you have more money.

[SpillOnAisle9]

The guys running the SOCL exchange traded fund are going to have to sell LNKDIN to buy FB to rebalance the index.....I wonder
if that has anything to do with the sector drop (as well as the ETF) today. I bought some puts on SOCL just in case :)

[40gates]

It's definitely a natural comparison to make. FBs revenue stream is much more volatile and unsustainable, where as LinkedIn's revenue system is more reliable. For comparison sake, FB earned just under $4 billion last year, where as LinkedIn made just over $500 million. FB uses ad clicks for its monetizing scheme and LinkedIn uses some sort of subscriber system.

Also, based on the metrics that FB is operating under currently, they are expected to earn revenue in the $15 billion range. Which is obviously quite high for a company with a declining revenue over the past 3 years.

Facebook has a much better opportunity for growth, however. If they execute correctly, they can displace Google, LinkedIn, Twitter, etc. Their search function needs a interface redesign to compete with Google, their grouping and privacy settings need to be tweaked to compete against LinkedIn and Google+. After the IPO, they'll have the capital to pull anything off.

Bought in a very small position just for fun @$38.05.

[engo]

Ok, this sucks.

This is what my TD Waterhouse page says:
Cancel Request: 12:08PM EDT
Status: 50 filled at $42.00 a share at 2:28PM EDT

How is that even possible?:facepalm:

Call and complain ... I had problem with them and moved to BMO and RBC since.
It could be a long process and I recalled spending 2 months back and forth with different level of staff before the issue was resolved. Don't give up.
Good luck.

[Matrix_dot_ca]

Ok, this sucks.

This is what my TD Waterhouse page says:
Cancel Request: 12:08PM EDT
Status: 50 filled at $42.00 a share at 2:28PM EDT

How is that even possible?:facepalm:

that is BS. I had mine sitting on pending cancel as well and i did phone them and ask why there was along delay to completely cancel the order. The guy said the was a NASDAQ delay. But anyhow, I did put a limit buy of $20 and cancelled it since it won't get filled anyways. :cheesygri

[mc_molineux]

Well to anyone who wanted in at the IPO price of $38... now is your chance.

[boyoflondon]

Call and complain ... I had problem with them and moved to BMO and RBC since.
It could be a long process and I recalled spending 2 months back and forth with different level of staff before the issue was resolved. Don't give up.
Good luck.

I highly doubt they will do anything. It was a NASDAQ reporting issue. They were had issues on their end which is impacting execution and cancellation messages. Nothing to do with the broker you are using.

[monomono]

So if it's a NASDAQ issue, what happens if you cancel an order and they fill it anyway? Are you obliged to take the shares or does the broker have to give you a refund?

[mc_molineux]

So if it's a NASDAQ issue, what happens if you cancel an order and they fill it anyway? Are you obliged to take the shares or does the broker have to give you a refund?

You have to take it. The brokers make it clear that all buys, sells, and cancellations thereof are done on a "best efforts" basis... meaning that they try their best but what happens, happens. Unless you can prove that they didn't really give their best effort, you are usually SOL.

[40gates]

Well to anyone who wanted in at the IPO price of $38... now is your chance.

I think Facebook is fairly valued right now. They have approximately the same revenue as Google had back in 2005 when Google stock rose to $300, or half of what it is now. Facebook's market cap right now is half of Google's right now as well.

This assumes Facebook can grow like Google did in the next 8 years.

[Matrix_dot_ca]

So if it's a NASDAQ issue, what happens if you cancel an order and they fill it anyway? Are you obliged to take the shares or does the broker have to give you a refund?

It is their fault not yours. So why should you shoulder someone elses fault?

[ZenOps]

$38.37 close. Not quite 1% for the IPO's, but a definite drop for any retailer that bought at the bell.

That was.... Anti-climactic.

[Mark77]

$38.05 after-hours.

Don't know if I'd wanna be holding this over the weekend.

Needless to say, practically no buyers made money today, and no short seller lost.

[engo]

I highly doubt they will do anything. It was a NASDAQ reporting issue. They were had issues on their end which is impacting execution and cancellation messages. Nothing to do with the broker you are using.

Not to argue who's at fault ...
I think OP should still call and at least get an official reply.
Broker house have budget/accounts to look after issues similar to this but the client has to initiate the complaint process to start with. Be consistent and do not give up.

[Neovingian]

Run run run...Hurry up and buy...
might be a little to early, but anyone get it less than $38?

[canibusIII]

Ok, this sucks.

This is what my TD Waterhouse page says:
Cancel Request: 12:08PM EDT
Status: 50 filled at $42.00 a share at 2:28PM EDT

How is that even possible?:facepalm:

Mine still says cancel pending. I cancelled a bit before you, at 11:55. Hope its really cancelled!

[stanimal]

Ok, this sucks.

This is what my TD Waterhouse page says:
Cancel Request: 12:08PM EDT
Status: 50 filled at $42.00 a share at 2:28PM EDT

How is that even possible?:facepalm:

From what I understand, there was a delay in reporting confirmation of orders by Nasdaq, not necessarily a delay in processing orders. Your order probably got filled before your cancel request got submitted. If you actually look at the stock price at 2:28pm, it was around $40 at the time, not the $42 fill price you see.

[joo]

Looks more like Faceplant right now.

I know this post is going to come back to haunt me.
Since I'm not buying it'll skyrocket to $100's by the end of the month. :facepalm:

[red_skittles]

Run run run...Hurry up and buy...
might be a little to early, but anyone get it less than $38?

More like hurry up and sell. Once it loses support of the underwriting banks its going to tank hard. I still think FBs incredibly overvalued and wouldn't be surprised to see it hit $30 in the next month.

[Kaitlyn]

I'm going to hold on to my shares... let's see how much money I'll end up losing on Monday :(

Today didn't go anything like I thought!

[TheRed]

This stock is way overvalued from the beginning. Waiting for $20 which by then will be fairly valued before buying again. It will happen once the stock loses underwriter support and retail investors and others dumping the stock in panic selling.

Then growth based on real fundamental growth will start there after serious corrections took place.

[aviador]

Anticlimatic as someone well said earlier.

Well, fb now has real dough not monopoly make-believe money. fb can go now on a shopping spree of profitable companies using real money and make-believe money, which in turn might increase their stock value (fb already did it with instagram 700m make-believe money -fb stocks- and 300m real money.) fb didn't do bad at all, it managed to cash in a lot of money at that ridiculously high valuation.

Still, I'm an skeptic of fb business model. I, for example, hate getting updates when I fb-liked a company or product. Like when I liked clearlycontacts in order to get the coupon for the firstpairfree promo in their first promo -now is weekly.- I don't check fb frequently and I found a lot of junk on my wall/board, wth! It's even worse now that some contests using fb-like feature require the participant name and the fb name to match. So, like in free email, I feel compelled to have a private (fb/email) account for family and friends and a private alternate account for (fb/email) spam like contest entries, coupons, online reviews, rfd, etc. In addition, the features to user-control fb are limited.

As I mentioned in previous posts in this thread, the vultures waiting for fb to cash in some dough have already starting to sue, a 15B$ class action is already on, and software and internet companies will start suing soon now that fb has some real assets (ipo cash.) and it's no longer pie in the sky.

I'd guess (with nothing to back it up but gut intuition, some reading and some educated guessing) that fb stock price will go north a little in the next few weeks before going rim or nortel. So, some rfders might recoup some of their investment with a little profit, but it needs some nerve (if you are conservative like me, dump it as soon it gains some price and reasonable profit)

Good luck guys and gals! ;)

-------
ps: I dindn't buy fb stocks, perhaps I'm too much of a scaredy-cat.

[BennyBP]

I'm going to hold on to my shares... let's see how much money I'll end up losing on Monday :(

Today didn't go anything like I thought!

Im doing the same, and I agree - nothing like i thought.

[PrinceV]

The original investors of FB would like to thank you all for buying, they can buy more lambo's, ferraris and 50-room mansions.

FB needs users more than users need them.

IMO....I see FB to be more like MySpace. Simply the biggest and worst IPO that money can buy.

[LeUgim]

So the only people got rich are insiders and outsiders get burned, as always >:(>:(

May be you should realize that today you were not investing but just playing. At the origin, stock market was there to put money in a company you trusted and that you would follow many months or years.
Today was the equivalent of betting money: winner or loser, that was just a game for everybody.

[starbright]

I guess you could say...

...it was an IPOHNO :cool:

[jfall]

Well it's the end of the trading day, I cancelled my limit order at around 1:00pm and it's still in a cancel submitted status. I have $8,000 tied up right now and I have no idea if I have shares or if it will be cancelled as I requested. Hopefully RBC clears this mess up soon.

[40gates]

If you compare Facebook to Google back in 2005, you'll see that similarities in the sales:price ratio. I would even say that Facebook has a more valuable asset than Google did back in 2005. You can always use other search engines, but with Facebook, you're pretty much forced to use it because everyone you know is on it.

With all this data, and with facebook being the primary portal for many people, they could easily replace any web service out there. They can create their own webmail accounts, search engine, professional network, group deals - anything involving the web.

I can see this stock appreciating $15 / year for the next 3 years if they can execute as well as Google did from 2005 to 2008, when it increased its revenue by approximately 60% annually.

In the near term, I can see it going down - probably no lower than $20 though.

[niroopg]

Im doing the same, and I agree - nothing like i thought.

How could FB's be nothing like what you thought? The only way you cpuld have thought the stock was going the skyrocket is if you bought all the media hype that was created goldmans and facebook. The real data has been put there for months, and even publicly analyzed by some of the most reputable investors in the world.

This stock is going to be in steady decline as underwriters pull the support. That is the only reason this stock is still at 38.

[mc_molineux]

Well it's the end of the trading day, I cancelled my limit order at around 1:00pm and it's still in a cancel submitted status. I have $8,000 tied up right now and I have no idea if I have shares or if it will be cancelled as I requested. Hopefully RBC clears this mess up soon.

Yeah, RBC was a disaster today.

[Jon Lai]

So, stupid Questrade filled my order at $42 apparently, at 16:11 (after hours). WTF?

Does anyone know if I can complain about this?

[komal]

Stupid question.

Linked in is trading at around $100 per share. Facebook at around $40 per share.

Comparing the two, why is Linked In trading at such a high price?

You're making an invalid comparison. Share price alone is meaningless.

Lets say we have 2 companies worth $100.

Company A could have 10 shares outstanding, each worth $10.

Company B could have 100 shares outstanding, each worth $1.

You need to compare market capitalization, not share price.

[Justin]

Mine still says cancel pending. I cancelled a bit before you, at 11:55. Hope its really cancelled!

Mine says that as well, but if you click on the transaction details it will say if there was a fill.

[komal]

Im doing the same, and I agree - nothing like i thought.

Then you clearly didn't do any research!

Every analyst was saying you should stay away from FB stock at launch.

[bionicbadger]

With all this data, and with facebook being the primary portal for many people, they could easily replace any web service out there. They can create their own webmail accounts, search engine, professional network, group deals - anything involving the web.
.

Facebook is facing lawsuits in many countries regarding data and privacy. They need to monetarize that data since its pretty much the only asset they have. But they will get nailed with lawsuits and legislation stopping them from fully exploiting it. While lots of people might use facebook, they don't make a bunch of money off of it. The only reason that the IPO sold out was hype and dumb people thinking it was like a lottery and they could make a ton of money off it, the company itself isn't worth that much.

[40gates]

Facebook is facing lawsuits in many countries regarding data and privacy. They need to monetarize that data since its pretty much the only asset they have. But they will get nailed with lawsuits and legislation stopping them from fully exploiting it. While lots of people might use facebook, they don't make a bunch of money off of it. The only reason that the IPO sold out was hype and dumb people thinking it was like a lottery and they could make a ton of money off it, the company itself isn't worth that much.

The lawsuit is primary involving tracking users even when have logged out of facebook. Their use of data can be in the terms of agreement that extend past "logging out". They don't have to give out personal information, but they can create "profiles", and give advertisers those profiles. The data can also be harvested in a similar way like Gmail.

[BennyBP]

How could FB's be nothing like what you thought? The only way you cpuld have thought the stock was going the skyrocket is if you bought all the media hype that was created goldmans and facebook. The real data has been put there for months, and even publicly analyzed by some of the most reputable investors in the world.

This stock is going to be in steady decline as underwriters pull the support. That is the only reason this stock is still at 38.

Well i guess i did buy the media hype, but i was hoping to capitalize on other people buying the media hype :cheesygri

Oh well, its an irrelevant loss of .09% to my current holdings, in the words of Gloria Gaynour, "i will survive."

[sparrow_69]

So, stupid Questrade filled my order at $42 apparently, at 16:11 (after hours). WTF?

Does anyone know if I can complain about this?

42$? I was watching the stock price from my iphone while at the gym. The stock was trading a hair above 38$ with one trade at 42$. Maybe what I saw was your purchase? How does that happen?

[FunSave22]

Looks more like Faceplant right now.
Not really. All it means is that the underwriters of the ipo actually did a good job (for a change).


It doesn't serve Facebook any good is they offer the ipo at $20 and it jumps to $40 on the first day. It just means that a huge amount of money, that could have belonged to Facebook, was left on the table. The main purpose of an ipo is to get maximum value for the percentage of a company been sold. Not to make speculators rich.

It looks like Facebook got close to maximum value. Which is a good thing for any company going public.

[Krox]

May be you should realize that today you were not investing but just playing. At the origin, stock market was there to put money in a company you trusted and that you would follow many months or years.
Today was the equivalent of betting money: winner or loser, that was just a game for everybody.

This is problem with today's stock market. Twenty-years ago, the average person who bought stocks had to go through a broker, a real live person who would provided knowledgeable advice. Market fundamentals applied. With the internet, anybody and everybody with a bit of 'spare' cash can purchase any stock, no prior knowledge required. It has turned the stock market into a form of gambling, it is much more about "gut" feelings.

It seems that the "marketing" of stocks has become more important then fundamentals.

[Krox]

Not really. All it means is that the underwriters of the ipo actually did a good job (for a change).


It doesn't serve Facebook any good is they offer the ipo at $20 and it jumps to $40 on the first day. It just means that a huge amount of money, that could have belonged to Facebook, was left on the table. The main purpose of an ipo is to get maximum value for the percentage of a company been sold. Not to make speculators rich.

It looks like Facebook got close to maximum value. Which is a good thing for any company going public.

This would be true if the underwriters didn't need to pump money into the stock to ensure it didn't dip below $38.

[Kohanz]

This is problem with today's stock market. Twenty-years ago, the average person who bought stocks had to go through a broker, a real live person who would provided knowledgeable advice. Market fundamentals applied. With the internet, anybody and everybody with a bit of 'spare' cash can purchase any stock, no prior knowledge required. It has turned the stock market into a form of gambling, it is much more about "gut" feelings.

It seems that the "marketing" of stocks has become more important then fundamentals.

I agree that the markets are different than they were decades before, but I don't think that's due to us being able to make transactions directly rather than through brokers. Today's markets, with more people and more importantly, computers, focused on it than ever, are just fundamentally different from those of 20 years ago.

[FunSave22]

Twenty-years ago, the average person who bought stocks had to go through a broker, a real live person who would provided knowledgeable advice.
Just to be clear, you're talking about stock brokers?

Salesmen whose job is to try to sell you stocks on a list given to them by their manager? And who also try get you to churn your account as much as possible in order to generate commissions?



If you want to make comments about the investing ability of people today that's fine. But don't try to romanticize stock brokers as useful people.

[Jon Lai]

42$? I was watching the stock price from my iphone while at the gym. The stock was trading a hair above 38$ with one trade at 42$. Maybe what I saw was your purchase? How does that happen?

It also opened at $42. And apparently I wasn't the only one who got GG'ed by NASDAQ today.

[komal]

Not really. All it means is that the underwriters of the ipo actually did a good job (for a change).


It doesn't serve Facebook any good is they offer the ipo at $20 and it jumps to $40 on the first day. It just means that a huge amount of money, that could have belonged to Facebook, was left on the table. The main purpose of an ipo is to get maximum value for the percentage of a company been sold. Not to make speculators rich.

It looks like Facebook got close to maximum value. Which is a good thing for any company going public.

No, it means the underwriters did a bad job.

You want a first day bump in the stock price, not a massive one, but a significant one to boost investor confidence. That didn't happen. Instead it slid and now the stock is making big news worldwide BECAUSE it didn't have a bump.

The underwriters having to pump in money and encouraging their investors to buy the stock to prop it up only makes it look worse. The fact that it started at $42 and ended at its IPO price of $38 also means that the IPO investors didn't make anything, which is another bad sign.

Now the share price looks like it is too high and analysis will be coming down about what went wrong and why the share price is sliding, which might further erode confidence.

Right now I'll bet a bunch of facebook employees are wondering if the price will deteriorate by the time they are free to sell their shares. Investors are now going to hold off because the stock may slide further given its bad first day on the market.

[komal]

This is problem with today's stock market. Twenty-years ago, the average person who bought stocks had to go through a broker, a real live person who would provided knowledgeable advice. Market fundamentals applied. With the internet, anybody and everybody with a bit of 'spare' cash can purchase any stock, no prior knowledge required. It has turned the stock market into a form of gambling, it is much more about "gut" feelings.

It seems that the "marketing" of stocks has become more important then fundamentals.

Thats not only ignorant, its grossly inaccurate.

20 years ago, the only contact you had with an investment was your broker, you didn't even get any news on your investment unless it was a big company and made the financial section.

20 years ago there were no ways to monitor your investment, the big boys on Wall Street made all the money and fleeced anyone they needed to. They told you what to buy and what to sell.

Now we have access to hundreds of analysts, research sites, public filings etc. etc.

The stock market has always been big on speculation, that isn't a new thing. It just has far more investors now, which is a good thing.

Just because people make bad decisions doesn't mean its somebody else's fault.

[Sniper001]

So, stupid Questrade filled my order at $42 apparently, at 16:11 (after hours). WTF?

Does anyone know if I can complain about this?

I guess I got lucky.. my 40 shares got filled at $38.50 after hours with Questrade. Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do.

[FunSave22]

You want a first day bump in the stock price, not a massive one, but a significant one to boost investor confidence. That didn't happen. Instead it slid and now the stock is making big news worldwide BECAUSE it didn't have a bump.

I doubt people will care much in a few months and they certainly won't care in a few years.

Facebook's long term results will depend on how they perform, which will partially depend on how they put to use all of the money they just raised. The chances that the lack of a first day pop will be relevant in a couple of years is extremely low.

[mc_molineux]

It also opened at $42. And apparently I wasn't the only one who got GG'ed by NASDAQ today.

It could be worse... I am still sitting here at 8:15 pm, 4 hours after market close, and I have no idea if I have FB stock or not. My orders are "cancel submitted" but it doesn't say if the cancellation was in time or not. Also, some screens of my broker site say my cash is still there, some don't. I have no idea WTF is going on. Luckily it was a only small amount of money, but it makes me worry about future transactions... what if I had bet the farm on this?

[monomono]

Which broker are you with?

[TheRed]

Thinking back there was 10%+ risk free return if you time it right. The stock was hovering or at 38 a lot of time and given the fact that underwriters support the 38 level, anything above 38 is a pure risk free profit!!

This was very possible!! Plenty of time to enter at 38 and plenty of time to exit 10% higher, knowing the stock price would never go down below 38.

[komal]

I doubt people will care much in a few months and they certainly won't care in a few years.

Facebook's long term results will depend on how they perform, which will partially depend on how they put to use all of the money they just raised. The chances that the lack of a first day pop will be relevant in a couple of years is extremely low.

Who said it was going to be relevant in a couple of years? You could say the same thing about any event that affects a stock price, no signle event is relevant in the long term so your argument is pointless.

The point of a first day pop is to signal everybody that the stock is going to pick up steam and that investors have confidence in it. That encourages stockholders to sit on their shares and others to buy.

Look at the # of people complaining on here, they would all be piling in with no questions asked if the stock had ended the day up 10% or 15%. If the stock had a good day, a lot more people would likely be piling into it and you'd see a lot more positive press coverage. It would also enable the underwriter's clients to sell their positions as a profit which is the whole point of being a client privileged enough to get access to an IPO like this.

The bump is supposed to enable a successful IPO.

[canibusIII]

It could be worse... I am still sitting here at 8:15 pm, 4 hours after market close, and I have no idea if I have FB stock or not. My orders are "cancel submitted" but it doesn't say if the cancellation was in time or not. Also, some screens of my broker site say my cash is still there, some don't. I have no idea WTF is going on. Luckily it was a only small amount of money, but it makes me worry about future transactions... what if I had bet the farm on this?

I'm in the same boat as you, I cancelled my 100 share order at 11.55 and it's still sitting in limbo. Weird, TD Waterhouse had no problem filling my buy order 45 seconds later for FB, right after I cancelled the first one.... It literally got filled in 3 seconds, by the time I pressed submit it was already filled. They better not tell me tomorrow it ended up getting filled at some ridiculous price like the other poster....

[brunes]

42$? I was watching the stock price from my iphone while at the gym. The stock was trading a hair above 38$ with one trade at 42$. Maybe what I saw was your purchase? How does that happen?

I actually just got a call from TD Waterhouse to inform me that my purchase was ALSO at $42 and erroneously placed on my account at the lower amount before - WTF! I'd expect more from TD...

EDIT: Wow this is a good read - http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/day-of-glitches-marr-facebook-stock-debut/2012/05/18/gIQASHnYZU_story.html

I wonder if all the glitches had not happened if the price would have ended up different.

[FunSave22]

It would also enable the underwriter's clients to sell their positions as a profit which is the whole point of being a client privileged enough to get access to an IPO like this.

The bump is supposed to enable a successful IPO.
A successful IPO is one that maximizes the price the company gets for its offering.

The point of Facebook going public was to raise a large amount of money, not to make the underwriter's clients happy.


Any negative press coverage is a blip. Facebook will be judged on how it performs financially.

[aviador]

FB IPO was a HUGE success.

FB's assets before IPO were what 1B$ perhaps? and nevertheless, it managed to sell around 50% of it for what? 100B$, with the chance of cashing in another 100B$. In my book that's a huge success. I wish I could sell a business for 100 or 200 times its assets value.

[komal]

A successful IPO is one that maximizes the price the company gets for its offering.

The point of Facebook going public was to raise a large amount of money, not to make the underwriter's clients happy.


Any negative press coverage is a blip. Facebook will be judged on how it performs financially.

Well there is no definition, but what you're saying is a pretty simplified view on what makes an IPO successful.

You also don't seem to understand the concept of stakeholders, because there are multiple stakeholders here. IPO investors, banks/underwriters, facebook, facebook employees, individual investors, brokerages, early investors etc.

Also, FYI, the company now has many shareholders, so actually, a successful IPO would need to meet shareholders goals since they are owners of the company as well as raise capital for the company. Can you guess what shareholders want?

When companies go public like this, the goal tends to be to enable everyone to cash out, not simply to raise capital for the company, those people are looking for share price increases more than anything. The venture capitalists can sell a lot of shares but employees are locked in for the time being.

At the end of the day, the company doesn't get the upside/downside of first day trading. The company sells its shares before trading begins @ the IPO price. So whether or not the company raises the most capital possible isn't really a factor, so long as there are no large deviations from the IPO price as that will have indicated the company left money on the table or took more than it should have.

[TheRed]

FB IPO was a HUGE success.

FB's assets before IPO were what 1B$ perhaps? and nevertheless, it managed to sell around 50% of it for what? 100B$, with the chance of cashing in another 100B$. In my book that's a huge success. I wish I could sell a business for 100 or 200 times its assets value.

Err no, the 100B valuation does not goes to FB's asset. The 16B does. The rest is other people's money and a perceived value.

[mc_molineux]

Which broker are you with?

RBC Direct Investing.

[Ringgold]

Good poll, the answers depends on your goals, are you investing or trading ? I would consider Facebook as medium range investing (5-10 years at most) option, you can't deny the lack of competition, the strong market share, the endless possibilities provided by being used on a PC online for the whole world, I wouldn't put too much though, it is still risky for that.

[Jon Lai]

I actually just got a call from TD Waterhouse to inform me that my purchase was ALSO at $42 and erroneously placed on my account at the lower amount before - WTF! I'd expect more from TD...

EDIT: Wow this is a good read - http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/day-of-glitches-marr-facebook-stock-debut/2012/05/18/gIQASHnYZU_story.html

I wonder if all the glitches had not happened if the price would have ended up different.

Welcome to the club... I guess. How many have we got now?

brunes
Justin
Jon Lai

The way this situation is handled is just terrible. Complaining at Questrade isn't doing anything, they keep blaming NASDAQ and saying it's not their fault.

Any contingency plans? I'm a bit worried about Tuesday...

[Jon Lai]

I guess I got lucky.. my 40 shares got filled at $38.50 after hours with Questrade. Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do.

So lucky. Didn't you put your order in the morning as well? :(

[FunSave22]

You also don't seem to understand the concept of stakeholders, because there are multiple stakeholders here. IPO investors, banks/underwriters, facebook, facebook employees, individual investors, brokerages, early investors etc.

Also, FYI, the company now has many shareholders, so actually, a successful IPO would need to meet shareholders goals since they are owners of the company as well as raise capital for the company. Can you guess what shareholders want?

When companies go public like this, the goal tends to be to enable everyone to cash out, not simply to raise capital for the company, those people are looking for share price increases more than anything. The venture capitalists can sell a lot of shares but employees are locked in for the time being.
I fully understand all of this. And what I'm saying is that it is all just background noise.

If the IPO maximizes the amount of cash the company receives, then it is successful. This is by many magnitudes the most important measure of the IPO.


It's clear that Facebook came very close to maximizing the amount of cash received. So the IPO was a success. They have the rest of their public life to deal with maximizing returns for shareholders. Today was about raising as much cash as possible.

[komal]

I fully understand all of this. And what I'm saying is that it is all just background noise.

If the IPO maximizes the amount of cash the company receives, then it is successful. This is by many magnitudes the most important measure of the IPO.


It's clear that Facebook came very close to maximizing the amount of cash received. So the IPO was a success. They have the rest of their public life to deal with maximizing returns for shareholders. Today was about raising as much cash as possible.

Thats actually pretty ignorant.

One of the biggest reasons to have an IPO is so that the original investors can cash out, as I stated above. Early investors, such as employees, venture capitalists, angel investors etc. only invest when they are given a plan that will let them cash out. That is the reason those firms invest, to wait for the IPO to recover their investment.

To say that the only purpose of an IPO is to raise cash for the firm is just ignorant. The biggest winner from IPOs tends to be employees, early investors etc., not the firm itself. That is because those investors own the company and they tend to be focused on their own returns first and foremost.

[mmdc]

Tried to cancel. Was stuck forever, then I gave up checking.

Time of Order: 09:35:07 EDT
Status of order: Canceling

Turns out it actually executed.

Date: 05/18/2012 Action: Bought
Time: 16:10:55 Executed Price: $42.00

[deal_with_singh]

This is my most expensive purchase of this stock...at a market order in my RRSP account....

23-May-2012 250 FACEBOOK INC CL-A CONV TO CAD @0.45 %US PRE 42.33 -$7.00 -$10,637.15


Basically purchased 250 shares at $42.33

[komal]

I still can't comprehend why you guys were placing orders when there were big red flags and every analyst was telling you to hold off.

But every trade being executed @ $42 seems incredibly odd. How the hell did that happen?

[TheRed]

I still can't comprehend why you guys were placing orders when there were big red flags and every analyst was telling you to hold off.

But every trade being executed @ $42 seems incredibly odd. How the hell did that happen?

Coz the opening price was $42 so the dumbfounded NASDAQ executed prior-opening limit orders at $42? lmao

[Jon Lai]

Tried to cancel. Was stuck forever, then I gave up checking.

Time of Order: 09:35:07 EDT
Status of order: Canceling

Turns out it actually executed.

Date: 05/18/2012 Action: Bought
Time: 16:10:55 Executed Price: $42.00

Here's another victim :(


brunes
Justin
Jon Lai
mmdc


This is my most expensive purchase of this stock...at a market order in my RRSP account....

23-May-2012 250 FACEBOOK INC CL-A CONV TO CAD @0.45 %US PRE 42.33 -$7.00 -$10,637.15


Basically purchased 250 shares at $42.33

How'd you manage this? Was this part of the glitch? I thought you bought all in the lower $40's.

[aviador]

Err no, the 100B valuation does not goes to FB's asset. The 16B does. The rest is other people's money and a perceived value.

TheRed, could you explain me what you mean?

For what I see, the valuation is pie-in-the-sky present value of forecasted cash flows, but the IPO is real present day money where just a portion of the property is dissolved http://www.quora.com/Who-are-the-major-Facebook-shareholders-and-what-percentage-do-they-own
http://whoownsfacebook.com/

The post IPO fb ownership structure will have a 54% intact ownership (sucker and fb employees, mostly), but the 46% remaining has been diluted (watered down ownership) and some money raised (how much? I don't know.)

What are those 16B$ you mention?

I'm an engineer not a business major, just a newbie amateur in trading and investment. I have read a few books about day trading and investment only.

TIA
----
congratulations to the new rfders owners of a piece of facebook. ;)

[Magoomba]

Not saying Facebook isn't overvalued, but everything is relative.
Compared to Linked In it might be an incredible deal.

What other company has such targeted and deep personal data of over 900 million users?
They know what you like, who your family are, who your friends are, where you've been.
That is pretty incredible stuff if they are able to mine it properly.
It's downright scary.

[niroopg]

Not saying Facebook isn't overvalued, but everything is relative.
Compared to Linked In it might be an incredible deal.

What other company has such targeted and deep personal data of over 900 million users?
They know what you like, who your family are, who your friends are, where you've been.
That is pretty incredible stuff if they are able to mine it properly.
It's downright scary.

Linked In has a much better revenue stream and monetization strategy. Facebook has been great at membership recruitment, but that hasn't translated into tangible bottom line growth. In fact, they have epically terrible at monetization strategies.

You ask what other company has such targeted and deep personal data? No one. I ask, what other company is under such scrutiny with respect to privacy than Facebook? No one. Not one day into the IPO and a $15 BILLION class action has been filed against them. They are going to get shredded, because the desired information that facebook has through its membership base leaves them open to massive class action litigation. They have spent 7 years trying to improve revenue streams through targetted advertising and have been hugely unsuccessful.

[Magoomba]

Linked In has a much better revenue stream and monetization strategy. Facebook has been great at membership recruitment, but that hasn't translated into tangible bottom line growth. In fact, they have epically terrible at monetization strategies.

You ask what other company has such targeted and deep personal data? No one. I ask, what other company is under such scrutiny with respect to privacy than Facebook? No one. Not one day into the IPO and a $15 BILLION class action has been filed against them. They are going to get shredded, because the desired information that facebook has through its membership base leaves them open to massive class action litigation. They have spent 7 years trying to improve revenue streams through targetted advertising and have been hugely unsuccessful.

You seem to have a better grasp of Linked In's revenue model than I.
I would go to Linked In whenever I'm in the mood to look for a new job.
Other than that I never go to the site. Guess I'm not their target audience.
Never once have I clicked on any links on their site.

As for Facebook, I agree the privacy issue may ultimately become their undoing.
Without a legal background, what are the limits of what FB can do with their data.
I'm sure when you sign up an account, you are already agreeing to allowing your data to be used.
Is that not sufficient to shelter them from some of these litigations?

[FunSave22]

To say that the only purpose of an IPO is to raise cash for the firm is just ignorant.
Yes, that would be ignorant. Too bad I didn't say it. I said the more important purpose, by many magnitudes, was to raise cash.


Here are two scenarios:


Scenario 1:

Facebook goes public at $38.
On opening day, Facebook closes at $38.
It's clear Facebook got close to the maximum value for their IPO.



Scenario 2:

Facebook goes public at $33.
On opening day, Facebook closes at $38.
People who had access to the IPO are happy they got a pop.
It's clear Facebook got much less than the maximum value for their IPO.





You consider Scenario 2 to be an successful IPO. I consider Scenario 1.

You called me ignorant because I'm not obsessed about the pop. You don't seem to care that much about all of the money that Facebook left on the table on Scenario 2.


Facebook is now a public company. Public companies have a duty to maximize revenue for their shareholders. I see them fulfilling that duty by collecting as much money as possible during their IPO. You see them fulfilling it by collecting less than the maximum amount from their IPO so they can please speculators with a pop. Yeah, I'm ignorant.

[FigNewton]

ok what happens now if you bought it at 42 dollars?

will facebook go shopping for companies to buy?

[uknowzip]

I have to admit that I don't understand the business prospect of this fad. Won't touch it with a 20 ft pole. If I do, it will be on the short side of the stick.

[hades]

ok what happens now if you bought it at 42 dollars?

will facebook go shopping for companies to buy?

It already has:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/facebook/facebook-acquires-mobile-social-gifting-startup-karma/13405?tag=main;river

hades

[kashirin]

Yes, that would be ignorant. Too bad I didn't say it. I said the more important purpose, by many magnitudes, was to raise cash.


Here are two scenarios:


Scenario 1:

Facebook goes public at $38.
On opening day, Facebook closes at $38.
It's clear Facebook got close to the maximum value for their IPO.



Scenario 2:

Facebook goes public at $33.
On opening day, Facebook closes at $38.
People who had access to the IPO are happy they got a pop.
It's clear Facebook got much less than the maximum value for their IPO.





You consider Scenario 2 to be an successful IPO. I consider Scenario 1.

You called me ignorant because I'm not obsessed about the pop. You don't seem to care that much about all of the money that Facebook left on the table on Scenario 2.


Facebook is now a public company. Public companies have a duty to maximize revenue for their shareholders. I see them fulfilling that duty by collecting as much money as possible during their IPO. You see them fulfilling it by collecting less than the maximum amount from their IPO so they can please speculators with a pop. Yeah, I'm ignorant.

Have you seen a price action?
it was a complete disaster
basically underwireters jp morgan and morgan stanley had to step in and buy unlimited amount of share at $38
I estimate they bought at least 10 million shares
it was a real panic
if they didn't buy shares could go significantly lower

From that price action I fully expect price will go under 30 very fast probably in the next week

[Mark77]

From the New York Times:


In a sober debut, shares of Facebook closed just barely above their offering price on Friday, as the company’s bankers stepped in to help support the stock.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/05/18/after-buildup-a-modest-start-for-facebook/?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120519

[X360]

If you able to see/know the underwriters buying shares to keep price above $38 then you keep buying FB shares at lower price near $38 then immediately selling at fewer cent higher to make profit lol...


As a result, Morgan Stanley may have spent billions of dollars to support the stock price by buying shares in the market. Some market participants said that the underwriters had to absorb mountains of stock to defend the $38 level and keep the market from dipping below it.

The firm did this by tapping into a 63 million share over-allotment option, or greenshoe, according to sources familiar with the deal.

As an indication of the cost, had Morgan Stanley bought all of the shares traded around $38 in the final 20 minutes of the day, it would have spent nearly $2 billion.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/19/facebook-morgan-stanley-idUSL1E8GIER020120519

[LeUgim]

People are not learning the lesson? Who cares: that's their money.
But banks, only four years after the sub primes, keeping on doing this monkey business that's really a problem.

[dazz]

Some of you are like baby whiners...
FB has no competition! Once it will find a way to make money with the companies they bought and going to buy + add something cool into their current FB to start making more money( perhaps some kind of high-end subscription) it will take off and shares will rise.
1 billion users...No company out there has that many potential buyers, not to mention all the info they have one you starting with your age and gender and finishing with most private things.
FB is good a long term investment. I can definitely see it being over $60 in a year or two!!

[martianmarvin]

Companies like this which are a growth stock are valued on future earnings and I think as it stands they were overvalued in their IPO according to most so I can easily see them dropping in value next week to a more realistic price of say $25 - $30.

JMHO

[aviador]

Some of you are like baby whiners...
FB has no competition! Once it will find a way to make money with the companies they bought and going to buy + add something cool into their current FB to start making more money( perhaps some kind of high-end subscription) it will take off and shares will rise.
1 billion users...No company out there has that many potential buyers, not to mention all the info they have one you starting with your age and gender and finishing with most private things.
FB is good a long term investment. I can definitely see it being over $60 in a year or two!!

I disagree with your assessment.

- fb has competition from google+, qzone, sina weibo, renren, hi5, etc. There is a huge list of microblog/bb/social-networking sites like fb http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_networking_websites. Some are localized and it'd be hard for fb to enter those markets unless fb buy them out.

- most fb users are in northamerica, ~330M inhabitants. fb has 900M users, so 600M are commercial users and/or international users. Nope. Most northamerican users are likely to have multiple fb accounts (1 for family and friends, 2 for throlling, 3 for making business privately, 4 you name it)

- you perhaps don't know but before Microsoft Internet Explorer even existed the browser market was dominated by a single company much like fb, netscape. It soared faster and bigger than fb in less time and was for a time the king of the hill. There they came competition from microsoft and other web browsers and it deflated into nothing. fb is following the same path of netscape: huge hype, huge initial valuation, dominance for 3 years, initial investor cashed out at high valuation, taken over by competion, and finally liquidated for 1/20th of its initial valuation, leaving its retail investors holding the bag when they thought they were making the invesment of the century buying at the peak of the hype.

- fb can't legally use personal information in many jurisdictions

- fb is going the way of the telemarketers. Nobody wants them and people reject the products they sell just because of the intrusive way they are contacted. As the telemarketers, they think they have figured out the potential customers and are mistaken most of the time.

- fb has cashed in so much money they will go on buying companies just to use that money some how. fb has no innovation power, unlike apple or microsoft. fb from the beginning has been a me too company backed by a huge hype mass media marketing machinery

---------------------
I doubt any rfder is going to leave some fb stock in their long term portfolio. Most participated in the IPO thinking of making a quick flip in the anticipated IPO initial intraday rise and fall.

[crimsona]

With the cash they have, it's a great time to buy up all the local competitors and become the dominant player in every country...they can afford to now

[ZenOps]

Social networking on the internet has been around for decades.

I remember using IRC (free) and "The Palace" many years ago, one of which went bankrupt after trying to move their users to a subscription model.

Google was relatively fresh and new for its time, there were competing search engines - also many of which completely died out - like askjeeves.

The question is - is FaceBook a page in history like ThePalace, an alsoran like askjeeves, or a longstanding google.

[packardbell]

wonder why facebook is banned in china.:lol:

[niroopg]

With the cash they have, it's a great time to buy up all the local competitors and become the dominant player in every country...they can afford to now

Not if Zucker keep spending like he has been (ie. Instagram for a billion). His unilateral decision making process will impede growth.

[niroopg]

Companies like this which are a growth stock are valued on future earnings and I think as it stands they were overvalued in their IPO according to most so I can easily see them dropping in value next week to a more realistic price of say $25 - $30.

JMHO

I can see the same but over a couple of months. As the hype dies down, their value will be more dependent on the true corporate benchmarks (revenue, profits, etc) and will approach a more appropriate multiplier (10-20x earnings, if that).

[Magoomba]

Have you seen a price action?
it was a complete disaster
basically underwireters jp morgan and morgan stanley had to step in and buy unlimited amount of share at $38
I estimate they bought at least 10 million shares
it was a real panic
if they didn't buy shares could go significantly lower

From that price action I fully expect price will go under 30 very fast probably in the next week
Yes it has been widely reported that they had to step in to support the price.
However, some of this could be due to investors having issues getting their confirmations.
NASDAQ couldn't handle the transaction volume.
I really suspect the fizzle on opening day was caused by investors panicking when they didn't know what was going on with their orders.
Fear usually causes sell orders.

I agree with most that FB is way overvalued and most of this is coming from hype.
They have yet to prove that they can turn that huge user base and personal data into sustainable and growing profits.
Even so, I still challenge those who doubt FB, do you not say the same about Groupon, Zynga, Linked In, and Monster?
It's been many months since these went public. Why aren't these shares down to a reasonable PE of 20 to 30?
Hell even AOL is still kicking around at a PE of 81.

Take Groupon for example. All a customer cares about is that there is a savings on a product or service that interest them.
Do they care if that promo is coming from Groupon, Living Social, Google Offers, TastyGo, or any other countless Groupon copycats?
What is Groupon's "economic moat" aka competitive advantage?
Out of the bunch, I would argue FB has a much better chance.

[noob666]

Yes it has been widely reported that they had to step in to support the price.
However, some of this could be due to investors having issues getting their confirmations.
NASDAQ couldn't handle the transaction volume.
I really suspect the fizzle on opening day was caused by investors panicking when they didn't know what was going on with their orders.
Fear usually causes sell orders.

I agree with most that FB is way overvalued and most of this is coming from hype.
They have yet to prove that they can turn that huge user base and personal data into sustainable and growing profits.
Even so, I still challenge those who doubt FB, do you not say the same about Groupon, Zynga, Linked In, and Monster?
It's been many months since these went public. Why aren't these shares down to a reasonable PE of 20 to 30?
Hell even AOL is still kicking around at a PE of 81.

Take Groupon for example. All a customer cares about is that there is a savings on a product or service that interest them.
Do they care if that promo is coming from Groupon, Living Social, Google Offers, TastyGo, or any other countless Groupon copycats?
What is Groupon's "economic moat" aka competitive advantage?
Out of the bunch, I would argue FB has a much better chance.

That's pretty much sum it up

If it's not it's underwriter wanted to keep it's price above IPO by taking all the shares selling at $38, it probably ended up at the low 20's on friday

[tng11]

It's below $38 in pre-market, will be interesting to see where it ends up by the end of the day.

[markom]

FB 35.81 -6.33%
...and diving.

Looks like someone is keeping it above 35.

[Kaitlyn]

FB 35.81 -6.33%
...and diving.

33M shares traded already... whoa...

[tng11]

My deepest condolences to those who had their orders filled at $42... I'd be livid with a 20% loss right off the bat like that!

[xplode]

33M shares traded already... whoa...

55M shares traded now and it looks like it'll break 34.00 price point :-0

[Kaitlyn]

55M shares traded now and it looks like it'll break 34.00 price point :-0

$33.51... it just did

Wow... Money falling down the drain

[Sniper001]

The 40 shares I got by accident I sold for a loss at the open...
Looks like this sucker made me no money.

But I'm not sticking around for the bloodbath. Broke $33 now...

[Jon Lai]

I totally forgot US markets were open today and slept in :facepalm:

It's retracting a bit now, let's see where this goes. I just want to sell ASAP and limit my losses now.

[BennyBP]

I totally forgot US markets were open today and slept in :facepalm:

It's retracting a bit now, let's see where this goes. I just want to sell ASAP and limit my losses now.

+1

whats your stop limit here, or are you waiting for a recovery?

[jfall]

So has anyone here heard anything from RBC direct investing?

I cancelled my limit order about 30 mins in to trading on Friday and as of right now it is still on cancel request submitted and I have 8k of funds locked up that I can't transfer out. Has anyone heard anything from RBC about this screw up, I really hope I don't end up with the shares at market price.

I'll probably have to give them a call today and find out what is going on, I figured I'd leave it over the weekend and hoped that it would have been cleared up by now.

[Jon Lai]

+1

whats your stop limit here, or are you waiting for a recovery?

My plan is to dump today on the best price I can forsee. Might have to settle at $34 by the looks of things.

[Justin]

What a disaster....All because Nasdeq crashed and burned at processing information on Friday.

[BennyBP]

My plan is to dump today on the best price I can forsee. Might have to settle at $34 by the looks of things.

F*cking Nasdaq. Had they gotten the IPO right, who knows what the price would have went to. Could have made our money but they scared everyone off - and now its a free fall.

I didn't want to settle for 38 on Friday and i don't want to settle for 34 today........ :cry:

[Jon Lai]

What a disaster....All because Nasdeq crashed and burned at processing information on Friday.

What are your plan with your shares?

Hoping for some restitution from NASDAQ after the investigation completes...

[Justin]

F*cking Nasdaq. Had they gotten the IPO right, who knows what the price would have went to. Could have made our money but they scared everyone off - and now its a free fall.

I didn't want to settle for 38 on Friday and i don't want to settle for 34 today........ :cry:

Same here. Bail out and limit losses, or cross fingers and hope for a recovery? $42:facepalm:

[dazz]

I disagree with your assessment.

- fb has competition from google+, qzone, sina weibo, renren, hi5, etc. There is a huge list of microblog/bb/social-networking sites like fb http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_networking_websites. Some are localized and it'd be hard for fb to enter those markets unless fb buy them out.

- most fb users are in northamerica, ~330M inhabitants. fb has 900M users, so 600M are commercial users and/or international users. Nope. Most northamerican users are likely to have multiple fb accounts (1 for family and friends, 2 for throlling, 3 for making business privately, 4 you name it)

- you perhaps don't know but before Microsoft Internet Explorer even existed the browser market was dominated by a single company much like fb, netscape. It soared faster and bigger than fb in less time and was for a time the king of the hill. There they came competition from microsoft and other web browsers and it deflated into nothing. fb is following the same path of netscape: huge hype, huge initial valuation, dominance for 3 years, initial investor cashed out at high valuation, taken over by competion, and finally liquidated for 1/20th of its initial valuation, leaving its retail investors holding the bag when they thought they were making the invesment of the century buying at the peak of the hype.

- fb can't legally use personal information in many jurisdictions

- fb is going the way of the telemarketers. Nobody wants them and people reject the products they sell just because of the intrusive way they are contacted. As the telemarketers, they think they have figured out the potential customers and are mistaken most of the time.

- fb has cashed in so much money they will go on buying companies just to use that money some how. fb has no innovation power, unlike apple or microsoft. fb from the beginning has been a me too company backed by a huge hype mass media marketing machinery

---------------------
I doubt any rfder is going to leave some fb stock in their long term portfolio. Most participated in the IPO thinking of making a quick flip in the anticipated IPO initial intraday rise and fall.



The social sites you mentioned are too small and not in the direct competition. Google+ is a joke. 95% of all people Don't know what it is nor do they know or use any of those sites you mentioned. I am one of those that don't use them. I find it beyond stupid to sign up to all of those sites. Just like I find twitter the most stupidest thing ever! Most of those sites, including twitter are popular because they are just popular(Paris Hilton effect+John's effect). FB on the other hand is being used as a true Social Networking to connect with family and friends. It's not going to die out because we all still have family and friends and do like to connection with them. Myspace failed because it was always more for bands,media,spam and to collect 1000s of useless friends. Once people got tired of that and "grew up" they switched to FB, which was always about connecting with those you know.
You can't compare Groupon with FB because Groupon has 100s of DIRECT competition in every country and city. Ntscape is just a browser, you can't compare a freakin browser with FB. Just like you can't compare Google with FB. They serve different markets. Though Advertising on FB is WAAAAy more productive than advertising on Google Ads. That's a HUGE HUGE + to FB,being able to target certain users. I know because I own a business and switched from Google to FB and it quite a huge difference.

Also, I don't think most NA users have multiple accounts...Don't compare yourself to us lol :) Most people have one and those who have business have a business page. From what I know, FB tracks who owns a business page and those are not counted towards the billion

[Justin]

What are your plan with your shares?

Hoping for some restitution from NASDAQ after the investigation completes...

Think i'll hold and hope. With a $42 fill, trading fees, and currency conversion (bought in CDN $ TFSA) my cost is like $44 cdn. Doubt anything will come from NASDAQ even though all the big guys are on CNBC complaining how they suffered big losses due to NASDAQ.

[BennyBP]

Same here. Bail out and limit losses, or cross fingers and hope for a recovery? $42:facepalm:

I still have high hopes in the company itself doing good in the mid - long run, with that many users and that much potential its hard to see them not being able to capitalize on it. (too big to fail, but i guess that theory was debunked in 2008..)


What are your plan with your shares?

Hoping for some restitution from NASDAQ after the investigation completes...

Restitution?

[Deal4US]

I'm out. Down approx. 25K :(

[Jon Lai]

I still have high hopes in the company itself doing good in the mid - long run, with that many users and that much potential its hard to see them not being able to capitalize on it. (too big to fail, but i guess that theory was debunked in 2008..)



Restitution?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/nasdaq-alters-ipo-procedures-after-facebook-glitch/article2439007/


Nasdaq said on Monday it has engaged federal regulators to untangle the problems that occurred, which could eventually result in financial restitution for investors who did not get shares at the desired price.

[Jon Lai]

I'm out. Down approx. 25K :(

Were you a $42-er?

[Deal4US]

Were you a $42-er?

Nope, i came in @ $40

[markom]

What are your plan with your shares?

Hoping for some restitution from NASDAQ after the investigation completes...

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/nasdaq-confronts-liability-on-traders-losses-in-facebook-ipo-20120521-00737

They could be on the hook for quite a bit.

[oiboy]

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/nasdaq-confronts-liability-for-facebook-losses-2012-05-21

[Kaitlyn]

Say you have/want to buy an interlisted stock... say BMO

Today is Victoria day so the TSE is closed, but the NYSE is not and BMO is fluctuating today just like any stock on the exchange.

You could buy NYSE:BMO and "transfer" it to TSE:BMO? Is this common/easy to do?

What if you already had stock and wanted to sell it and NOT wait until tomorrow? Is there any way to sell your TSE:BMO on NYSE?

[ACC-Major]

Say you have/want to buy an interlisted stock... say BMO

Today is Victoria day so the TSE is closed, but the NYSE is not and BMO is fluctuating today just like any stock on the exchange.

You could buy NYSE:BMO and "transfer" it to TSE:BMO? Is this common/easy to do?

What if you already had stock and wanted to sell it and NOT wait until tomorrow? Is there any way to sell your TSE:BMO on NYSE?

which broker are u using?

[Kaitlyn]

which broker are u using?

TD Waterhouse

[martianmarvin]

I'm out. Down approx. 25K :(
$25K wow, be very careful with IPO's as the glory days are long gone and the stock markets are edgy these day's with what is going on in Greece and Europe.
I still think this will see $25-$30 soon. Trick in the market is too limit your losses so 10% down and your stop limit should get hit. Huge losses are hard to recover from and believe me I know, also don't trade with money that you can't afford to lose because when you borrow to invest you have to pay that back as well any interest.

GL with your investment, personally I would have shorted FB as I don't believe in its IPO valuation.

[canuckchris]

I have a friend shifting 35k (up from 20k) from his TFSA to his margin account and margining out at 100k.

If he misses he'll just declare bankruptcy and go take one of his many job offers in HK/UK since credit history isn't transferred (i.e. your Canadian credit score doesn't impact your ability to get credit in the U.S.)

I'm in at 25k though since I don't have the same option.

#winning strategy by him though.

How's his bankruptcy coming along? What flight is he on? :facepalm:

[ACC-Major]

TD Waterhouse

that I have no idea, since you have to call in.

I was thinking may be if you are with RBC Direct Investing, only then I can give you some tips because I have done it countless times.
I exchanged a lot of CAD to USD that way.

[starbright]

Does anyone else think today's prices look a little... flat?

From WSJ:

Dave Lutz, managing director at Stifel Nicolaus, said Facebook's underwriters might have stopped supporting the stock's price to thwart short-term traders counting on the underwriters buying at $38.

"We think this could just be a technique of Morgan Stanley trying to shake out some of the weaker hands," he said. "What a lot of people will do [when the underwriters continue to step in] is say, 'If the underwriter's not going to let it break through, I'll just sit there and day trade right in front of it.'"

Basically, as someone pointed out earlier in the thread, by now most investors know that MS was supporting FB at $38 and there were some safe trades to be made by buying at $38 and selling when it moved above that.

My guess is that MS is still supporting the stock, but now at $33.

[oiboy]

What did everyone who got out today, get out at? I'm still sitting on about 100 shares.

[aviador]

For those still with FB stocks. Are you going to sell now to cut loses or hold on until stock price rebound (might happen in weeks when FB starts doing business with the money it cashed in during the IPO)?

[van_ws]

Didn't get in on FB and never had any intention of doing so at the moment. I think the valuation is still ridiculously overpriced and not sold on the fundamentals as of yet. However, if the stock price falls to a fair valuation level (targeting between $20-25), I may consider buying some shares.

I was skeptical of the IPO and it looks like I made the right choice to stay away. I'm interested to see where this stock will sit after a month of trading.

For those that got burned from the hype, hopefully this will be a lesson learned.

[oiboy]

Any wishlists for FB acquisitions? Hoping for MM. FB really needs a mobile monetization push.

[Abel4Life]

Congrats to those that daytraded this and made some profit.

Those whom took losses and will continue to, I hope lady luck is on your side and you end up with what happened with Dollar Rent a Car (NYSE: Ticker - DTG). Probably not a dying chance though.

[niroopg]

What did everyone who got out today, get out at? I'm still sitting on about 100 shares.

I would get out. Take the $500 loss over losing another couple grand.

I have a feeling some underwriter support was pulled - but more to come in the following days.

You will not recover your losses ... ever.

[niroopg]

For those still with FB stocks. Are you going to sell now to cut loses or hold on until stock price rebound (might happen in weeks when FB starts doing business with the money it cashed in during the IPO)?

It isn't going to rebound to IPO prices. I would cut the loss. They are going to continue to fall as underwriters pull support gradually.

[niroopg]

I'm out. Down approx. 25K :(

You'll survive - it sounds like you invested $250K+. No doubt a good move to pull the plug.

[Kaitlyn]

Well I sold 45% of my shares at $33.15... now it's at $35ish... hmmm!

my average cost before was around $38.60

[niroopg]

Well I sold 40% of my shares at $33.15... now it's at $35ish... hmmm!

Isn't that how it always works? :( Stupid stock market.

[Mark77]

"I told you so"

[SpillOnAisle9]

Say you have/want to buy an interlisted stock... say BMO

Today is Victoria day so the TSE is closed, but the NYSE is not and BMO is fluctuating today just like any stock on the exchange.

You could buy NYSE:BMO and "transfer" it to TSE:BMO? Is this common/easy to do?

What if you already had stock and wanted to sell it and NOT wait until tomorrow? Is there any way to sell your TSE:BMO on NYSE?

I've been wondering about the same thing Kaitlyn but not for the same reason. Lately I dabble more with options than stocks and
of course the CBOE is open today. I'm with Investors Edge so I just tried to place an online (limit!) order for FB at a lowball price
and I was able to enter the order and it was in an 'open' yet unfilled status....so it looks like the online portion works on Canadian
holidays but if you had to call in say to do a flip from the NYSE to TSE or vice-versa you would have a problem because the Canadian order desks
are all closed. I would expect the same happens with TDW...but if you needed to sell/buy today on the NYSE you're fine

[niroopg]

"I told you so"

x2 lol. I was trying to be a bit more sympathetic, especially to those that got hit hard this morning. Definitely not a fun way to start the week.

[wm009]

"I told you so"

But But But... It's popular, cool and hip. That's more valuable than dollar returns. Cool and hip alone make Facebook worth a trillion dollars.

[brunes]

What did everyone who got out today, get out at? I'm still sitting on about 100 shares.

I'm going to sit on mine for awhile, I am not going to jump ship just yet. I am still wondering if all these trading glitches have scared people away.

[Justin]

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/morgan-stanley-works-facebook-ipo-orders-source-141939572--sector.html

They are still trying to fix messed up orders....

[red_skittles]

x2 lol. I was trying to be a bit more sympathetic, especially to those that got hit hard this morning. Definitely not a fun way to start the week.

All the signs were there so this really isn't that surprising. I guess everyone who took losses of FB are just going to have to double down and throw everything in to Twitter when it goes public :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Jon Lai]

Well I sold 45% of my shares at $33.15... now it's at $35ish... hmmm!

my average cost before was around $38.60

$33.15.. wow, that's like almost the lowest it went in the morning, wasn't it? Sucks :(

I got out at $33.80. Could've sold it a bit higher, but oh well. Nothing a few more meals at home can't fix.

Lesson learnt for sure.

[Jon Lai]

"I told you so"

This doesn't mean much - we all knew FB was going to tank. Most of us just wanted to capitalize on the initial pop, but I believe still would have happened if it wasn't for the NASDAQ glitches. It would likely not have been anywhere near the $75-80 a lot of people here was hoping for, but I saw no problem with it hitting $50 at the very least.

In fact, I was following it during the morning and it went up to $43 before the glitches came into play and fell to $38. Of course, we all know what happened after that.

[Deal4US]

You'll survive - it sounds like you invested $250K+. No doubt a good move to pull the plug.

No big deal. Win some Loose some
No Pain No Gain. :)

[niroopg]

Never believe pure media hype. Always base decisions on the books, history of revenue growth, monetization strategy, valuation, future P/E, IPO development - all of these factor into true demand, whether you are IPO quick flipping or in for long term strategy.

[ACC-Major]

why would anyone buy Facebook at half of Google's worth?

The problem with FB's IPO is that there was not too much hype.
I see contrarians everywhere this time.
If it was all hypes, then the shares would have shoot through the roof.

Way before the IPO, I have seem many self pro-claim experts on TV telling viewers that Facebook was way too over valued.
if there was that much hype, then no one dares to get those contrarians on TV to contradict.

[Anonymouse]

Never believe pure media hype. Always base decisions on the books, history of revenue growth, monetization strategy, valuation, future P/E, IPO development - all of these factor into true demand, whether you are IPO quick flipping or in for long term strategy.

+1

I mean, trailing P/E was 104! I get a nosebleed just thinking about it. You would have to have just TOO much risk capital to get involved in something like that.

You folks need to read Graham or just pick up a Motley Fool book or two to read at the cottage.

[niroopg]

You folks need to read Graham

One of the best books.

'All these so-called experts ignored Graham’s sober words of warning:
“Obvious prospects for physical growth in a business do not
translate into obvious profits for investors.” While it seems easy to
foresee which industry will grow the fastest, that foresight has no real
value if most other investors are already expecting the same thing. By
the time everyone decides that a given industry is “obviously” the best
one to invest in, the prices of its stocks have been bid up so high that
its future returns have nowhere to go but down.'

[adamtheman]

This will be a play at some point this week. Probably sooner than later. I could see this stock settling down into the $27-$30 range. The management at facebook can't be really upset though - they overvalued this stock. Had they launched at $70b it may have seen a spike to $110b. But they launched at $110b and it dropped to $70b. It's the logic of the stock markets. All this being said though, watch for some huge spikes in this stock over the next 6-8 weeks. It won't be the last 10% day we see. We could see a huge pop on any news.

[BennyBP]

Held on to my shares.. got in at 40 orginally, anyone else still holding? and at what price did you enter..

[Jon Lai]

This will be a play at some point this week. Probably sooner than later. I could see this stock settling down into the $27-$30 range. The management at facebook can't be really upset though - they overvalued this stock. Had they launched at $70b it may have seen a spike to $110b. But they launched at $110b and it dropped to $70b. It's the logic of the stock markets. All this being said though, watch for some huge spikes in this stock over the next 6-8 weeks. It won't be the last 10% day we see. We could see a huge pop on any news.

What kind of news are you anticipating? I can only think of two - FB buying some company out, and earnings reports. Neither of which are guaranteed to bring pops.

[niroopg]

What kind of news are you anticipating? I can only think of two - FB buying some company out, and earnings reports. Neither of which are guaranteed to bring pops.

Further underwriter withdrawal.

[Jon Lai]

Further underwriter withdrawal.

...which will see it dip further, not get popped up. I'm thinking the same thing.

[niroopg]

I suspect a hold in prices, maybe a small drop as underwriters stabilize prices to avoid any worsening in investor outrage and possible litigation.

Isn't it terrible when underwriters have an ownership stake in the business they are underwriting? Scam anyone?

[red_skittles]

I suspect a hold in prices, maybe a small drop as underwriters stabilize prices to avoid any worsening in investor outrage and possible litigation.

Isn't it terrible when underwriters have an ownership stake in the business they are underwriting? Scam anyone?

My understanding is that the underwriter acts as an insurer and essentially guarantees the shares are bought at the IPO price. if they overvalue the price theyre stuck with shares that have lost value. The underwriters want to stabilize the price so they don't have such a big loss on their books

[coopercold]

I can't help but laugh and laugh (and laugh some more) at the retail investors that purchased FB and have already banked losses. Schadenfreude all 'round!! :razz: :razz: :lol: :razz:

[Value Hunter]

lol. facebook is no google, that's for sure.

[Mark77]

lol. facebook is no google, that's for sure.

Even google is junk. Most overhyped company ever, IMHO.

[tighty whities]

I can't help but laugh and laugh (and laugh some more) at the retail investors that purchased FB and have already banked losses. Schadenfreude all 'round!! :razz: :razz: :lol: :razz:

+1. But at least many of these people admit that they were just flipping the coin. What I find more amusing are the people predicting price action and target prices.

[TheRed]

Even google is junk. Most overhyped company ever, IMHO.

+1 Even Apple is junk. Most over hyped company ever, IMHO. Nokia symbian is still the best smartphone ftw!

[uknowzip]

Number one rule of my investing is never to invest in any technology stock. However, this is an excellent stock for day traders with so much liquidity and price swing. I will not be jealous if you make a bundle in FB nor I will have any sympathy if you lose your shirt. If you make money in FB, congrats. If you lose money, consider it is a tuition and it can be written off as tax loss.

[mc_molineux]

So has anyone here heard anything from RBC direct investing?

I cancelled my limit order about 30 mins in to trading on Friday and as of right now it is still on cancel request submitted and I have 8k of funds locked up that I can't transfer out. Has anyone heard anything from RBC about this screw up, I really hope I don't end up with the shares at market price.

I'll probably have to give them a call today and find out what is going on, I figured I'd leave it over the weekend and hoped that it would have been cleared up by now.

Nope, I haven't heard. I think I'm in the same situation as you... less money though. Did you call? If so, what did they say?

I did manage to get a cash transfer to go through to "pending" (until the next business day, like normal) on Saturday morning, taking the cash that I had set aside for FB out of my brokerage account and back to my normal RBC account. Before that it was giving me an error whenever I tried to do the transfer. We'll see if the cash moves tomorrow though.

[kindheartedguy]

definitely not buying facebook right now... i meean look at the price/earnings ratio!!! P/E 108.92 (the average is 15 btw)

[LonesomeDove]

I have to admit I know very little about stocks.

So, why did the price drop? Some people said it was overpriced. But if it was overpriced, who was responsible for it? The investment banks? The underwriters? People who hold the original shares like Zuckerberg? I heard Zuckerberg and all the executives made big money. The small investors seem to be holding the bag now. It seems like the general public are suckers and the big guys win again. The stock guys hype and hype this garbage.

[Mark77]

I have to admit I know very little about stocks.
So, why did the price drop? Some people said it was overpriced. But if it was overpriced, who was responsible for it?


Stocks trade on emotion at times. For instance, just look at this thread -- we had people in the first few pages of the thread claim that they might be able to make 50-100% on this just by buying it at the IPO and flipping it within the same day. As though they were nostalgic of the market in 1999.



The investment banks? The underwriters? People who hold the original shares like Zuckerberg? I heard Zuckerberg and all the executives made big money. The small investors seem to be holding the bag now. It seems like the general public are suckers and the big guys win again. The stock guys hype and hype this garbage.

Yup, basically a classic 'pump and dump'. And with the way that Zuckerberg 'runs' the company, shareholders in this firm probably should become very familiar with their capital/investment in the company being abused.

For instance, $1B of the firm's resources to buy a single iPhone/Android applet ("instagram")? Lol. Facebook could've assembled a team of a few hundred top mobile developers, paid them $200k/year each, and put something together cheaper.

[niroopg]

I have to admit I know very little about stocks.

So, why did the price drop? Some people said it was overpriced. But if it was overpriced, who was responsible for it? The investment banks? The underwriters? People who hold the original shares like Zuckerberg? I heard Zuckerberg and all the executives made big money. The small investors seem to be holding the bag now. It seems like the general public are suckers and the big guys win again. The stock guys hype and hype this garbage.

Morgan Stanley and top level Facebook executives. From the reports, it seems MS overwhelmed discussions and aggressively took control of all key decisions of the IPO development and pushed out the rest of the underwriters (many of whom had grave concerns about its overvalued price). Top level Facebook executives just ate it up and got greedy (Zucker included).

[Mark77]

Morgan Stanley and top level Facebook executives. From the reports, it seems MS overwhelmed discussions and aggressively took control of all key decisions of the IPO development and pushed out the rest of the underwriters (many of whom had grave concerns about its overvalued price). Top level Facebook executives just ate it up and got greedy (Zucker included).

Being able to hawk FB for anything more than $5/share, IMHO, is pretty much a 'gift' from the market. After all, if you value FB compared to firms with no tangible assets and similar earning power, a multiple of only 10X is probably supportable, which puts the value of the stock in the $3-$5 range.

So I'd consider the IPO to be a stunning success. FB hasn't proven they know how to make money. The corporate governance sucks. The underwriters have succeeded in hawking this turd to the public for a value far in excess of what the market usually pays for the sort of cashflows generated by FB.

[aviador]

I just read this article in yahoo about fb pre-ipo trading resulting in the "pumped" valuation for the ipo.
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daniel-gross/facebook-ipo-already-happened-several-months-ago-secondmarket-134457488.html

There is as well a nice timeline showing fb investments and products so far.
https://www.secondmarket.com/facebook-on-secondmarket/



Yup, basically a classic 'pump and dump'. And with the way that Zuckerberg 'runs' the company, shareholders in this firm probably should become very familiar with their capital/investment in the company being abused.

For instance, $1B of the firm's resources to buy a single iPhone/Android applet ("instagram")? Lol. Facebook could've assembled a team of a few hundred top mobile developers, paid them $200k/year each, and put something together cheaper.


Being able to hawk FB for anything more than $5/share, IMHO, is pretty much a 'gift' from the market. After all, if you value FB compared to firms with no tangible assets and similar earning power, a multiple of only 10X is probably supportable, which puts the value of the stock in the $3-$5 range.

So I'd consider the IPO to be a stunning success. FB hasn't proven they know how to make money. The corporate governance sucks. The underwriters have succeeded in hawking this turd to the public for a value far in excess of what the market usually pays for the sort of cashflows generated by FB.

[Mark77]

Already down again in pre-market. Not by much, but the whole idea of a quick turnaround is probably wishful thinking.

[Mark77]

http://i47.tinypic.com/s4yx.png

Still not allowed to short it through IB.

Maybe tomorrow though... :lol: :lol: :lol:

[time space]

hawking this turd

/thread

[Mark77]

Almost setting a new low in pre-market. This could get ugly today....

Edit: $32.77. Wow...

[Kaitlyn]

Almost setting a new low in pre-market. This could get ugly today....

Edit: $32.77. Wow...

Excuse me while I go cry myself back to sleep

[mc_molineux]

Nope, I haven't heard. I think I'm in the same situation as you... less money though. Did you call? If so, what did they say?

I did manage to get a cash transfer to go through to "pending" (until the next business day, like normal) on Saturday morning, taking the cash that I had set aside for FB out of my brokerage account and back to my normal RBC account. Before that it was giving me an error whenever I tried to do the transfer. We'll see if the cash moves tomorrow though.

Well my funds were released back to me, so it looks like I dodged this bullet...

[EugW]

Opened at $32.59, but was below $32 within seconds. Down to about $31.55 at the moment.

[TheRed]

Nyummy AAPL is sooo delicious:cheesygri

[Mark77]

Just keeps getting worse.... :(.

Owners probably should grab a stiff drink at this point..its gonna be a long day.

[Sniper001]

Facebook is oversold at this moment... might buy if we hit under $30/share today (which I strongly doubt will happen.)

[Mark77]

Facebook is oversold at this moment... might buy if we hit under $30/share today (which I strongly doubt will happen.)

Oversold? With zero short interest? Impossible.

The Buy side order book looks awfully weak... This thing is like a trapdoor...

[TheRed]

Hmm looks like its going north, there has been irrational panic selling indeed, but again this is still much cheaper than lnkd, no? it may have hit the bottom and now its going up...

[Sniper001]

Oversold? With zero short interest? Impossible.

The Buy side order book looks awfully weak... This thing is like a trapdoor...
You may believe the valuation is absurd and thus Facebook is not worthy of an investment, but if you look at the investment rounds prior to the IPO and what Facebook was being valued at during those times (pre/post money valuations), you'd concur that buyers will swarm in if it falls further regardless of its valuation.

Facebook's current market cap is 67 billion dollars, if it gets close to the 50 billion mark (so another 20% or so drop), investors will swarm in because they know larger institutions have shares at that valuation.

All Facebook needs is a little good press, and it will fly. Zuckerberg could easily make an announcement this week (if the stock falls even more) that he is buying shares.

My 2 cents.

[Justin]

:-0

[SHERKAR]

Gonna break $30.00 either today or tommorow........Suckers :lol:

[monomono]

My order from 9am Friday still says "cancel submitted" at RBC. Well, at least it didn't get filled.

[mc_molineux]

My order from 9am Friday still says "cancel submitted" at RBC. Well, at least it didn't get filled.

Mine too. Did they release your cash though?

[monomono]

Mine too. Did they release your cash though?

Yes, the funds are available.

[Tharnax]

Hmm looks like its going north, there has been irrational panic selling indeed, but again this is still much cheaper than lnkd, no? it may have hit the bottom and now its going up...

Lots of interesting discussion over the past few days. Missed it all as I was too busy enjoying the long weekend. :D

Really disappointed to hear about all those who were stuck with shares higher then $40 because of miss information between Nasdaq and your broker. Being unable to sell is completely different then not willing to sell. This added a whole other level of risk, that no one could account for.

Couple things:
1. $16 Billion in shares sold was determined based on the 421 Million shares made available at IPO for $38 each. Of that "only" 180 million we actually made available by Facebook, so of the $16 Billion Facebook, the company, received $6.8 Billion or almost two years worth of revenues based on 2011. The other

2. Linked-in, while not having the same populous as Facebook does have a semi-consistent revenue stream. Yes, it's only $500 million annually but it's still growing and it's market valuation is less then $10 billion, 5x less then FB. FB on the other hand doesn't currently have a consistent revenue stream and a large portion of their revenue came from Zynga, it certainly didn't help that a large company like GM pulled out some advertising dollars the day before IPO.

3. As Mark77 has confirmed in a previous post short selling FB is still difficult, if any short selling is available, it is likely limited to hedge funds, institutional clients. So, from what I can tell, a majority of the downward pressure is currently share holders selling their stake and not borrowing shares to sell FB short. Short sellers will just add additional downward pressures.

4. Employees have a 90 day window between IPO and when they can sell their shares. Don't know how many shares of FB all the employees own but I would assume a large portion will sell, between 20 - 50% of their shares so all their eggs aren't in one basket. That will also add additional float and downward pressure on the stock.

A $20 per share valuation is probably on the low end as there is still hype regardless. Those who are still holding their shares @ IPO or higher, there isn't a lot of opportunity for good news to push the stock back to this valuation any time soon.

I'll admit I was correct, that the opening price would be at or within 10% of the high for IPO and I will admit I had way over valued what those who owned IPO shares would be willing to sell them for. I really expected a $60-$70 opening and crashing down from there. An opening at $42 was much lower and it still crashed down hard. Underwriters paid the price on this one and FB got $1.8 billion more then the $5 billion it wanted from the IPO. It's actually nice to see some of the banks left holding the bag for once.

[niroopg]

Pure hilarity.

[time space]

Facebook go boom.

Though it still has a ways to go...


Thomson Reuters Starmine (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/facebook-stock-hit-again-as-valuation-doubts-rise/article2439751/), meanwhile, using expected growth rates of about 10.8 per cent over the next decade, values the shares at $9.59, or less than one-third of its current price.

[bomba]

Anyone know how long it will be until we can short this thing?

[Rainne]

Facebook is a decent product with an ok brand image, but is all hype and no substance in regards to its price.

It's built around Generation Y, I'm not surprised.

[spike1128]

FB has no where to go but down. There was too much negative press even before the IPO.

Here is what I would have done. I buy the IPO when it's first issued if it's possible. Then drop it out the moment I get it. Make some money from that. Then leave it like it is now.

No way anyone can justify it to be worth that much. FB is an online activity for fun, will never be able to take any ads on there seriously. Social network with people to do what? Nothing useful can be done there but socialize, but not network.

[TimFr]

You can technically short the stock now if you can find someone to lend you the shares. The underwriters can only lend out their shares after 30 days so it's hard to find them at the moment. There was an article that the lead underwriter was shorting the stock on opening since they had a no lose situation. If the stock went up, they would just exercise their option with facebook to purchase additional shares at the IPO price. If it went down (as it did), they would purchase the stock on the open market to cover their short positions which is why it faced a floor of 38 on Friday. Facebook isn't worth 100 billion dollars, but it's certainly worth something. They had a billion dollars in profit last year. That's no small feat for a company that everyone thinks has no product.

[coopercold]

I can't help but laugh and laugh (and laugh some more) at the retail investors that purchased FB and have already banked losses. Schadenfreude all 'round!! :razz: :razz: :lol: :razz:

Yesterday, I laughed at people who has already sold. Today, I laugh at gamblers -- I mean, retail investors -- who keep holding (and wishing and hoping and thinking and praying) while they continue to suffer paper losses.

Schadenfreude all 'round!! :razz: :razz: :lol: :razz:

[niroopg]

You can technically short the stock now if you can find someone to lend you the shares. The underwriters can only lend out their shares after 30 days so it's hard to find them at the moment. There was an article that the lead underwriter was shorting the stock on opening since they had a no lose situation. If the stock went up, they would just exercise their option with facebook to purchase additional shares at the IPO price. If it went down (as it did), they would purchase the stock on the open market to cover their short positions which is why it faced a floor of 38 on Friday. Facebook isn't worth 100 billion dollars, but it's certainly worth something. They had a billion dollars in profit last year. That's no small feat for a company that everyone thinks has no product.

A billion dollar profit is essential NOTHING when you value the company at the rediculous level that they did. Now, they are on a downward spiral and their price-to-earnings is no where near rational to protect investors from continued losses related to idiotic valuation.

[Cerenity]

no. i would rather own other businesses instead

100 billion? i'd rather own Mcdonalds at that price
50 billion? i'd rather own Boeing
25 billion? i'd rather own ADP
10 billion? i'd start thinking about it, but i could also own Tim Hortons for that price...

i'd probably buy it if the valuation got down to around 10 billion, which puts the shares around 4 bucks....

but hey, plenty of people think its worth a lot. thats what makes a market i suppose. one man's trash is another man's treasure?

so yea... it'll probably never get to 4 bucks, and if it does, it will likely mean the company is about to become irrelevant anyway and everyone is fleeing.

[jmjoseph]

it is going sky high now.....from 31.00 to 31.17.

haha

[Tharnax]

Anyone know how long it will be until we can short this thing?

It seems it possible to short now if your broker will let you place the order. Mark77, you might want to contact yours if you still can't sell short.

Anyway, I looked into it and I've actually come across instances where individuals were able to get a short sell order filled on Friday. Most of them were covered before the end of the day but at least one was cover as recently as today. I'm unable to provide exact numbers for time, quantity or prices but I can say the short sellers spread was greater then $5 but less then $10. Good for them, I don't know how they did it as the trades were properly market as a short sale on the market and as far as I can tell it wasn't a mistake and clients were issued proper client confirmation.

I just wish I could have taken advantage as well, I didn't know so I never tried. :mad:

[40gates]

Damn, I lost $100 :(

Seriously though, Facebook has potential, it just needs to execute. I'm not sure if Zuckerberg has the business acumen to pull it off. He seems a bit too ideological from his comments on "timeline" - not everyone wants their life on display.

Also, as mentioned earlier, he overpaid for Instagram - basically a picture-sharing app. A more prudent purchase would be to buy RIM - which now is worth less than $6 Billion.

[spike1128]

Damn, I lost $100 :(

Seriously though, Facebook has potential, it just needs to execute. I'm not sure if Zuckerberg has the business acumen to pull it off. He seems a bit too ideological from his comments on "timeline" - not everyone wants their life on display.

Also, as mentioned earlier, he overpaid for Instagram - basically a picture-sharing app. A more prudent purchase would be to buy RIM - which now is worth less than $6 Billion.

Zuckerberg has suckered you all into buying high and selling low. He doesn't want FB to fail, but I bet he is parking his money on hard assets right now. Just in case, FB goes to the way of Friendsters. Like the other poster has said, the poster rather have a lot of McDonald franchises running with billions of dollars.

I would have just bought RIM for the patents. Sell the patents, sell pieces of it to Google/Apple, and close up shop.

He also has the time to get marry to his long time girlfriend (i mean gold digger).

[LonesomeDove]

Shouldn't people look at the long term value of the stock instead of selling right now at a loss? Like what the value would be in 5 or 10 years. Surely in that time it would be worth more than the initial price of $42.

[aviador]

no. i would rather own other businesses instead

100 billion? i'd rather own Mcdonalds at that price
50 billion? i'd rather own Boeing
25 billion? i'd rather own ADP
10 billion? i'd start thinking about it, but i could also own Tim Hortons for that price...


Good one!

For the initial valuation, you could've bought Boeing, Intel (http://investors.morningstar.com/ownership/shareholders-overview.html?t=INTC&region=USA&culture=en-us) and Tim Hortons.

Geez fb sounds now like a Bernie Madoff kind of business.
Some retail investors got facebooked.

[blainehamilton]

Shouldn't people look at the long term value of the stock instead of selling right now at a loss? Like what the value would be in 5 or 10 years. Surely in that time it would be worth more than the initial price of $42.


Why pay the initial price of $42 when you can have it for $31 today, $25 next week, and maybe $10 in 3 months time?

Have you never heard the term 'Pump and Dump'? It applies to IPOs as well...

[Anonymouse]

Shouldn't people look at the long term value of the stock instead of selling right now at a loss? Like what the value would be in 5 or 10 years. Surely in that time it would be worth more than the initial price of $42.

That's right, I have all my money in MySpace, Nortel and Pets.com. Mark Zuckerberg is going to assure my comfortable retirement. P/E of only 80 or so at this price - what could go wrong?

[RolandCouch]

Can't wait to buy in at $3.

[Justin]

Nasdeq sued. This could get ugly.

http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/Legal/News/2012/05_-_May/Investor_sues_Nasdaq,_alleges_Facebook_IPO_bungled/

[Kaitlyn]

Nasdeq sued. This could get ugly.

http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/Legal/News/2012/05_-_May/Investor_sues_Nasdaq,_alleges_Facebook_IPO_bungled/

I do feel the problems they had affected EVERYONE - not just those who specifically had their order confirmations delayed/in limbo...

[Jungle]

So for those who bought and held a company that had a p/e of 100+, did you learn a lesson yet? No wonder they tell index investors beat stock pickers over a long period.

[Tharnax]

He doesn't want FB to fail, but I bet he is parking his money on hard assets right now.

Proof!?

I have no doubt that many investors have sold a large chuck of share, especially when the secured many buyers at $38 per share. However, Zuckerburg always stated he was selling his portion to cover his capital gains taxes of approximately $1.6 Billion as a result exercising his option to buy a 120 Million shares. Link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/zuckerberg-may-sell-167-billion-in-stock/2012/02/06/gIQAY7DotQ_video.html)

Here is a nice chart of those who increase the number of shares they were selling as a result of the "higher" demand for the stock. Notice Zuckerburg didn't change the number of share he sold:

http://allfacebook.com/files/2012/05/WSJIPOSellersChart.jpg

Notice how Goldman Sacs increased their original sell amount from 23% to 50% and they were an underwriter, now that is a conflict of interest as far as I'm concerned.

[coopercold]

I do feel the problems they had affected EVERYONE - not just those who specifically had their order confirmations delayed/in limbo...

Methinks the complaints are only due to the falling stock price and thus actual or paper losses most have suffered. Had the stock jumped, then there would be no complaints.

This lawsuit smacks of bitterness.

And I so enjoy it. I'm loving it!! Hahahahah! :D :lol: :cheesygri :razz: :D

[niroopg]

So for those who bought and held a company that had a p/e of 100+, did you learn a lesson yet? No wonder they tell index investors beat stock pickers over a long period.

That's only because most stock "investors" are actually amateur speculators that aren't exactly informed by the raw data, but by their emotion.

[Mark77]

Shouldn't people look at the long term value of the stock instead of selling right now at a loss? Like what the value would be in 5 or 10 years. Surely in that time it would be worth more than the initial price of $42.

Maybe.... But I'd put money (and have) on the companies that I own, that trade at 3X cashflow and 5X earnings, to be worth a lot more.

[brunes]

Methinks the complaints are only due to the falling stock price and thus actual or paper losses most have suffered. Had the stock jumped, then there would be no complaints.


That's not true at all. If you had a market order in at 38-40 and the stock had jumped while your order was held in limbo, I suspect people would be MORE upset.

The whole glitch situation is very bad. Even yesterday I was reading some people still had trades unsettled. This whole thing was a real arse-up for the NASDAQ and is sure to scare off major IPOs for awhile.. that is the hidden story here, check out THEIR OWN chart.. fell off a cliff on Friday. Down 10% this month. You want a short, there's one...

[niroopg]

Methinks the complaints are only due to the falling stock price and thus actual or paper losses most have suffered. Had the stock jumped, then there would be no complaints.

This lawsuit smacks of bitterness.

And I so enjoy it. I'm loving it!! Hahahahah! :D :lol: :cheesygri :razz: :D

It's more about getting timely service. Filling orders without delay is essential in stock market play. If an organization cannot provide that (especially when they are offering services on an IPO), then they are useless. People would be pissed regardless.

[taro-chan]

It's more about getting timely service. Filling orders without delay is essential in stock market play. If an organization cannot provide that (especially when they are offering services on an IPO), then they are useless. People would be pissed regardless.I agree with this. There is a multi-million dollar business in millisecond trading.

[Magoomba]

So for those who bought and held a company that had a p/e of 100+, did you learn a lesson yet? No wonder they tell index investors beat stock pickers over a long period.

Serious? Hardly a fair statement. How many actually wanted to buy and hold?
If you read the posts you'll see that most of the buyers of this stock from RFD only had intention of doing a flip on the pop during IPO day.
And it may well have worked if NASDAQ's systems didn't fail so miserably.

[Anonymouse]

Serious? Hardly a fair statement. How many actually wanted to buy and hold?
If you read the posts you'll see that most of the buyers of this stock from RFD only had intention of doing a flip on the pop during IPO day.


Yah, and how's that working out for you? Greater fool theory is not exactly the most successful investment strategy ever.

[Jungle]

Go to the casino to gamble. At least you can bet your money there without glitches in the system, enjoy some entertainment and food while your at it.

[macalin]

LOL @ Facebook and their underwriters being sued already

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/23/us-facebook-lawsuit-idUSBRE84M0RK20120523

[Cerenity]

market sort of IS a giant casino if you think about it

investors who do the homework, and take into account margin of safety, are the house, because they tilt the odds in their favor. speculators are the players, who dream of striking it rich by getting lucky

at least i find it very similar!

[hagbard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZU_F0_l970&feature=context-gfa

[taro-chan]

market sort of IS a giant casino if you think about it

investors who do the homework, and take into account margin of safety, are the house, because they tilt the odds in their favor. speculators are the players, who dream of striking it rich by getting lucky

at least i find it very similar!I agree with the casino but disagree about your take.

1% is in the know, then the 99% are the gamblers. It's a death trap right now as pretty much all gamblers are losers.

[Justin]

Facebook must be pissed.."Facebook may move shares to NYSE"

http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20120523/APF/1205230986?Title=Facebook-may-move-shares-to-NYSE

[bomba]

I agree with the casino but disagree about your take.

1% is in the know, then the 99% are the gamblers. It's a death trap right now as pretty much all gamblers are losers.

+1 The richer get richer and everyone else donates to the rich.

[TheRed]

Facebook must be pissed.."Facebook may move shares to NYSE"

http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20120523/APF/1205230986?Title=Facebook-may-move-shares-to-NYSE

/*popcorn*

this is the first time evar in history...

[brunes]

/*popcorn*

this is the first time evar in history...

Far from it... lots of companies move indicies. TI just did it last year, from NYSE to Nasdaq. I doubt any has moved this soon after their IPO though.

Like I said on last page - these glitches should not be downplayed, it was a MAJOR foul up.

[Kaitlyn]

Far from it... lots of companies move indicies. TI just did it last year, from NYSE to Nasdaq. I doubt any has moved this soon after their IPO though.

Like I said on last page - these glitches should not be downplayed, it was a MAJOR foul up.

As an investor and someone who sold off some shares but still own some... I am quite upset with what happened Friday. This conversation alone has tons of comments of "my order is in limbo. I'm trying to cancel it" etc. etc. etc...

I have little doubt it affected the stock price

[McClane]

It's very disappointing to see people laughing at others for losing money only to pat themselves on the back because, for a change, they had one right.

[Magoomba]

I love how we laugh at FB's P/E ratio of over 100 and yet no one blinks an eye at buying leveraged real estate when the house P/E ratio is in the hundreds.

[Mark77]

I love how we laugh at FB's P/E ratio of over 100 and yet no one blinks an eye at buying leveraged real estate when the house P/E ratio is in the hundreds.

There's no CMHC for the Facebook. And FB's liquidation value is probably zero, while houses probably will still retain at least some liquidation value in the future.

However, a purchase of FB pretty much only puts your equity at risk. While negative equity is possible for houses with mortgages.

[Deal4US]

It's very disappointing to see people laughing at others for losing money only to pat themselves on the back because, for a change, they had one right.

Don't worry about it, I might be one member that loose then most in here. The negative comments don't have any effect on me, cause it was my decision alone, and i still sleep like a baby since last friday :lol:

[niroopg]

It's very disappointing to see people laughing at others for losing money only to pat themselves on the back because, for a change, they had one right.

I laugh because people who bought Facebook stocks think they are "investors", while in reality, are "speculators". If you look through the first 20 pages of this thread, there are multiple logical warnings of why this stock was not going to do well from numerous posters including Mark77 and myself. I saw no logical arguments for investing. All I saw was "WOOT! EATING UP THE HYPE! FACEBOOK! WET T-SHIRT CONTEST!!!!"

If this were a stock that had solid raw data and tanked because of glitches with the NASDAQ, fine. But when it is clear their valuation doesn't add up with their revenue and profits, when prominent investors (ie. Warren Buffett) are avoiding the IPO, when so many things are unusual with the IPO development, AND YET YOU STILL BUY STOCK, you deserve to be laughed at.

And don't claim that the people that were right about Facebook is a rare event for that group. The people that use raw data and logic in their investments come out right far more often than they are wrong (or at least their capital investment is relatively protected). The people who invested in Facebook are emotional investors and come out wrong way more often than they are right. And don't claim you aren't an emotional investor if you bought Facebook stocks. You are the definition of an emotional investor. There is not a single piece of data that suggests their valuation is sensible or will be sensible in the next 5 years.

I don't particularly care if you gambled. As long as you recognize that you gambled and can sleep at night, all is good in the world. If you think you were a sound investor, then you need to re-evaluate your knowledge because it will likely lead to big losses in the future.

[BennyBP]

I laugh because people who bought Facebook stocks think they are "investors", while in reality, are "speculators". If you look through the first 20 pages of this thread, there are multiple logical warnings of why this stock was not going to do well from numerous posters including Mark77 and myself. I saw no logical arguments for investing. All I saw was "WOOT! EATING UP THE HYPE! FACEBOOK! WET T-SHIRT CONTEST!!!!"

If this were a stock that had solid raw data and tanked because of glitches with the NASDAQ, fine. But when it is clear their valuation doesn't add up with their revenue and profits, when prominent investors (ie. Warren Buffett) are avoiding the IPO, when so many things are unusual with the IPO development, AND YET YOU STILL BUY STOCK, you deserve to be laughed at.

And don't claim that the people that were right about Facebook is a rare event for that group. The people that use raw data and logic in their investments come out right far more often than they are wrong (or at least their capital investment is relatively protected). The people who invested in Facebook are emotional investors and come out wrong way more often than they are right. And don't claim you aren't an emotional investor if you bought Facebook stocks. You are the definition of an emotional investor. There is not a single piece of data that suggests their valuation is sensible or will be sensible in the next 5 years.

I don't particularly care if you gambled. As long as you recognize that you gambled and can sleep at night, all is good in the world. If you think you were a sound investor, then you need to re-evaluate your knowledge because it will likely lead to big losses in the future.


Its still distasteful for you to come on here after the IPO and continue to mock the people who have suffered losses and gloat that you were right, regardless if you were or not. Have some class. Why should anyone here take your investment advice when you come online just to point your finger at the "emotional investors"? Your not offering anything to the conversation and all your incredibly insightful posts are painfully repetitive.

[niroopg]

Its still distasteful for you to come on here after the IPO and continue to mock the people who have suffered losses and gloat that you were right, regardless if you were or not. Have some class. Why should anyone here take your investment advice when you come online just to point your finger at the "emotional investors"? Your not offering anything to the conversation and all your incredibly insightful posts are painfully repetitive.

Keep crying, pal. Your posts demonstrate the insight of an amateur financial planner playing with clients money. Well done.

And what's even more painful is that, based on your posts, you have rudimentary knowledge of the stock market and buy stocks like you are exchanging them for Monopoly money.

And why is emotional investors in quotes? Are you denying that you are an emotional investor/speculator? You epitomize what is wrong with so many investors today - and this is exactly why so many people lose money in stocks. You equate investing with gambling.

And I've offered more to the conversation than you have. Your posts consist of stupid questions that any investor should know well before they drop a cent in the stock market.

[BennyBP]

Keep crying, pal. Your posts demonstrate the insight of an amateur financial planner playing with clients money. Well done.

And what's even more painful is that, based on your posts, you have rudimentary knowledge of the stock market and buy stocks like you are exchanging them for Monopoly money.

And why is emotional investors in quotes? Are you denying that you are an emotional investor/speculator? You epitomize what is wrong with so many investors today - and this is exactly why so many people lose money in stocks. You equate investing with gambling.

And I've offered more to the conversation than you have. Your posts consist of stupid questions that any investor should know well before they drop a cent in the stock market.

1. Its not painful, its the truth - i'm not a financial planner, adviser or day trader.. Are you? Because you certainly claim to know everything there is to know about the market, and are offering quite a bit of advice that no one asked for.. I believe the thread title is "are you buying" not "should i buy."

2. Please highlight the part of my post where i claimed to be or not to be an emotional investor. Also, i have 100k+ in the bank, and invested $400 in Fb stocks, so tell me again how i am the epitome of what is wrong with so many investors today?

3. Your opinion of "me" is irrelevant and unfounded. I post under a pseudonym, and the only truth here is about my financial status. You know nothing of me. So for you to sit and post about who I am and what i think is quite revealing of yourself. The lack of knowledge you have is astonishing, yet your so quick to make judgements and claim absolute certainty... Hm, guess i should take investment advice from you.

4. I dont understand the Monopoly money reference, please advise.

[TheRed]

Don't worry about it, I might be one member that loose then most in here. The negative comments don't have any effect on me, cause it was my decision alone, and i still sleep like a baby since last friday :lol:

Good for you in knowing that losses are just market swings and volatility in the play. No loss, no gain. No volatility, no either.

To other posters, know that humans by nature are emotional beings and it will always affect them when making decisions. To be emotionless is to be not human. Unfortunately this stands true in the markets and as have studied in new branch field of behavioral finance, sentiments and psychology plays a big part in the stock markets. And as such you will see strong fundamental stocks but always oversold or weak fundamentals but always overbought. For these observations it was concluded that today's stock market have irrational herd investors and arbitrageurs that form the semi strong market we have today. Such technical tools such as RSI which is basically is the number of runs of gain and losses of a stock is used. And as such traders have become speculative, because investing on fundamental alone only paints a little picture in the grand scheme of things such as the economy, the market sentiment, and otherexternal factors that contributes a larger influence to a stock's volatility.

[niroopg]

1. Its not painful, its the truth - i'm not a financial planner, adviser or day trader.. Are you? Because you certainly claim to know everything there is to know about the market, and are offering quite a bit of advice that no one asked for.. I believe the thread title is "are you buying" not "should i buy."

2. Please highlight the part of my post where i claimed to be or not to be an emotional investor. Also, i have 100k+ in the bank, and invested $400 in Fb stocks, so tell me again how i am the epitome of what is wrong with so many investors today?

3. Your opinion of "me" is irrelevant and unfounded. I post under a pseudonym, and the only truth here is about my financial status. You know nothing of me. So for you to sit and post about who I am and what i think is quite revealing of yourself. The lack of knowledge you have is astonishing, yet your so quick to make judgements and claim absolute certainty... Hm, guess i should take investment advice from you.

4. I dont understand the Monopoly money reference, please advise.

ROFL. Invested $400 in Facebook. Woooooot!

Lets all bow down to the "$100K in the bank".

The only thing that I claim absolutely certainty to (and ever will) is that you are clueless.

When was I advising you or anyone about anything? Did I direct comments to you or anyone else? This thread is about "are you going to buy any Facebook?" and in the posts, people are discussing why. I, along with almost every intelligent individual, were discussing why. I was sharing my opinion. No one was talking to you specifically.

With respect to Monopoly money, it is impossible to advise someone of your quality and calibre, nor do I want to. Go get your advice from Grade 8's doing their projects in simulated stock market investments. It would definitely be an upgrade over you trying to educate yourself.

[BennyBP]

ROFL. Invested $400 in Facebook. Woooooot!

Lets all bow down to the "$100K in the bank".

The only thing that I claim absolutely certainty to (and ever will) is that you are clueless.

When was I advising you or anyone about anything? Did I direct comments to you or anyone else? This thread is about "are you going to buy any Facebook?" and in the posts, people are discussing why. I, along with almost every intelligent individual, were discussing why. I was sharing my opinion. No one was talking to you specifically.

With respect to Monopoly money, it is impossible to advise someone of your quality and calibre, nor do I want to. Go get your advice from Grade 8's doing their projects in simulated stock market investments. It would definitely be an upgrade over you trying to educate yourself.

Are you still talking? What part of "your opinion is irrelevant" did you not understand? My questions were rhetorical, and only served to make the point that no one in here cares to have you running around spiking the ball. I don't actually need you to explain anything. My finances are incredibly in order, thanks for your concern though.

[mc_molineux]

no one in here cares to have you running around spiking the ball.
Plus one. The 20/20 hindsight isn't helping anyone.

99% of the people in the thread knew that this was a complete gamble, and weren't investing based on fundamentals. Niroopg is making it sound like everyone spent months pouring over the prospectus and doing research (but failing at it) when all anyone did was take a flyer based on the hype and notoriety of the company. Everyone knew the possible outcomes and took a chance. I wonder if Niroopg stands outside the casino giving these lectures as well.

[1226]

Plus one. The 20/20 hindsight isn't helping anyone.

99% of the people in the thread knew that this was a complete gamble, and weren't investing based on fundamentals. Niroopg is making it sound like everyone spent months pouring over the prospectus and doing research (but failing at it) when all anyone did was take a flyer based on the hype and notoriety of the company. Everyone knew the possible outcomes and took a chance. I wonder if Niroopg stands outside the casino giving these lectures as well.

+2

I've been a spectator in this thread from pretty much the beginning and it definitely feels like most of the FB buyers (from this thread at least) were fully admitting they were speculating and didn't plan to be owners for more than a few days.

[aviador]

Could you guys and gals cut back the bickering and personal attacks? They are derailing the thread and will have it closed if they continue.

The thread has been very interesting so far. Let's keep it pertinent and free of bickering.

[BennyBP]

+2

I've been a spectator in this thread from pretty much the beginning and it definitely feels like most of the FB buyers (from this thread at least) were fully admitting they were speculating and didn't plan to be owners for more than a few days.

+3 (of my own post, lol)

I think we were all pretty much aware that the mid-term prospects for this stock were unfavourable... Most of us were in agreeance with the market consensus that the stock would see a decent "pop", if you will, due to public sentiment, media coverage and retail investment. And if it wasnt for the unpredictable glitches in the initial listing, i think many of us would have realized our gains before the market closed on IPO day.

[brunes]

NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--Morgan Stanley (MS) told its financial advisers that the securities firm will adjust prices on a "few thousand" Facebook trades and that limit orders placed by retail brokerage clients wouldn't be filled at $43 a share or higher, according to a person familiar with the situation.

In an internal conference call, management of the Morgan Stanley Smith Barney brokerage joint venture updated the salesforce on steps the firm is taking to remedy bad trading that marred Facebook's initial public offering last Friday.

In the roughly 10 minute call, led by Andy Saperstein, head of the brokerage's U.S. wealth management businesses, the company said it still has a couple of hundred unresolved Facebook trades, which it expects to fix by Friday.

On the call, which didn't include a question and answer session, Morgan Stanley said the price-adjustment process will continue into next week and brokers "were told to go to service or branch managers to escalate unresolved questions," this person said.

On Wednesday, Morgan Stanley had told brokers that it was reviewing client orders on a trade-by-trade basis and that "in order to ensure best execution, we expect there will be a number of price adjustments."

It was unclear how many limit orders were placed by Morgan Stanley clients. A limit order is a an order placed with a firm to buy or sell a number of shares at a specific price. Facebook shares traded as high as $45 a share, right after it started trading at about 11:30 am EDT on Friday.

Trading glitches by the Nasdaq OMX Group Inc.'s (NDAQ) Nasdaq Stock Market, postponed the start of trading in the social networking company by 30 minutes that day. Additionally, Morgan Stanley and other brokerages, including Fidelity Investments, had many clients whose orders were processed improperly.

A Fidelity spokesman wouldn't say whether the company would reimburse its customers, though he added it's "working with regulators, market makers and the Nasdaq to represent all of its customers." He said Fidelity will "continue to do so until we are confident Nasdaq has done everything to mitigate the impact to our customers."

Morgan Stanley, which was the lead underwriter in the social networking company's IPO, has taken heat over its handling of the offering. Much of that criticism over the past two days has centered on reports that the firm and Goldman Sachs Group Inc. (GS) told some clients this month that they were reducing earnings estimates following a Facebook filing that warned ad-sales growth isn't keeping up with the expansion.

Morgan Stanley has said it "followed the same procedures for the Facebook offering that it follows for all IPOs," adding that those procedures are "in compliance with all applicable regulations."

Shares of Morgan Stanley closed down 0.5%, at $13.31. The stock is down 12% year-to-date.

[mmdc]

Shareholder Class Action Filed Against Facebook, Inc. by the Law Firm of Kessler Topaz Meltzer & Check, LLP

Source: PR Newswire (http://s.tt/1cHAA)

[Mark77]

brunes, so what happens to the folks who thought they had their Facebook shares "sold" @ $45, only to find out that their broker 'adjusted' their trades down to $42?

This happened to me a few times in 2007 through Interactive Brokers. I had limit orders for ridiculously high selling prices on certain ETFs. Low, and behold, some idiot out there, every so often, would hit my limit price, and I'd sell 200 VPL @ $100 (instead of the going price, around $70-$80 back then). 2 hours later, IB reversed the trades, and I was out the $4000-$6000 I made on the trades.

[brunes]

brunes, so what happens to the folks who thought they had their Facebook shares "sold" @ $45, only to find out that their broker 'adjusted' their trades down to $42?

Dunno, I was just sharing the story. Mine were at 42 so it doesn't affect me I don't think.

Another key point is that they are STILL settling trades and expect to be doing so up until Friday!!! A whole week... wow.

[T3NSION]

SkyNet Wars: Presenting The Rogue Algo Responsible For FaceBook's Downfall
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/skynet-wars-presenting-rogue-algo-responsible-facebooks-downfall

[masterhapposai]

I think there's a good reason to speculate on why this happened and try to learn a lesson.

But, should keep it focused on exact details behind they "why".

I would say, "only invest in products", for example. Facebook doesn't offer a compelling product. It doesn't sell something. Its a free service like Twitter.

When they start offering VIP packages, addons for Facebook credits, etc., it will be something you can make an informed decision about.

[Stryker]

Value investor Benjamin Graham was warning about the dangers of investing in IPO's in his book "The Intelligent Investor", (a book I re-read every so often) first published over sixty years ago. Unfortunately, it seems every new generation since then, has to learn a tough lesson.

In over thirty years of investing, I've made my own share of investment mistakes, but one thing, I've never been tempted to buy any new IPO in that period of time. Not even once. I prefer it when the odds are on my side, not on the house.

[RolandCouch]

ROFL. Invested $400 in Facebook. Woooooot!

Lets all bow down to the "$100K in the bank".

The only thing that I claim absolutely certainty to (and ever will) is that you are clueless.

When was I advising you or anyone about anything? Did I direct comments to you or anyone else? This thread is about "are you going to buy any Facebook?" and in the posts, people are discussing why. I, along with almost every intelligent individual, were discussing why. I was sharing my opinion. No one was talking to you specifically.

With respect to Monopoly money, it is impossible to advise someone of your quality and calibre, nor do I want to. Go get your advice from Grade 8's doing their projects in simulated stock market investments. It would definitely be an upgrade over you trying to educate yourself.

LOL dude is a clown, just ignore him.

Brags about how much money he has even though it was inherited and until he was GIVEN money he wasn't able to manage his own finances (check his post history)

Since 'becoming rich' as he said, he just posts a million stupid investment questions and then cries when he loses some money on a whopping $400 investment. Epic fail.

[spike1128]

LOL dude is a clown, just ignore him.

Brags about how much money he has even though it was inherited and until he was GIVEN money he wasn't able to manage his own finances (check his post history)

Since 'becoming rich' as he said, he just posts a million stupid investment questions and then cries when he loses some money on a whopping $400 investment. Epic fail.

That's with everybody anyways. People who makes their own money don't brag about anything. Just like a loser I know, inherited money from family then drop it on a brand new BMW with a lot of bragging.

I am not here to mock Ben, but that's how I see there is no reason to flash other people's money.


For losing money on FB stock. A fool with their money is so parted. For people who lost money, there are people who gain money. That's how the game is played.

[RolandCouch]

That's with everybody anyways. People who makes their own money don't brag about anything. Just like a loser I know, inherited money from family then drop it on a brand new BMW with a lot of bragging.

I am not here to mock Ben, but that's how I see there is no reason to flash other people's money.


For losing money on FB stock. A fool with their money is so parted. For people who lost money, there are people who gain money. That's how the game is played.

Agree completely. People who EARNED their money wouldn't be on here trying to brag about 100K in the bank. A typical novice who has not done anything to earn that money on the other hand....

[BennyBP]

I'm a giant troll

+1

[dgodsell]

The Facebook options market opened today. I've been waiting for this.

I bought 10 contracts of puts @ 22 and 25 with an expiry of September 22, 2012 and July 12, 2012, respectively, for $1,890.

Up 18% on the former and 13% on the latter so far.

3:00 p.m. update: Up 26% and 32% so far.

4:00 p.m. update: Up 38% and 41% so far.

Anyone else using the options market?

[niroopg]

timmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmber

[aviador]

May 29.

USD28.76 and steady descent slope.

Where is FB CEO or FB board? not even a word after the IPO. Did they just cash out and abandoned the sinking ship?

-------------------

A nice reading comparing Internet/Tech companies with FB at http://www.policymic.com/articles/8958/facebook-fb-stock-aftermath-is-the-high-tech-industry-too-big-to-fail

-------------------

It seems that zucker was only good at plagiarizing the software application he was contracted to work on by the twin fellas in Harvard.

[niroopg]

May 29.

USD28.76 and steady descent slope.

Where is FB CEO or FB board? not even a word after the IPO. Did they just cash out and abandoned the sinking ship?

-------------------

A nice reading comparing Internet/Tech companies with FB at http://www.policymic.com/articles/8958/facebook-fb-stock-aftermath-is-the-high-tech-industry-too-big-to-fail

-------------------

It seems that zucker was only good at plagiarizing the software application he was contracted to work on by the twin fellas in Harvard.

And now that he and the underwriters have scammed the public of billions, he can bid irrationally and pick up the likes of Oprah browser and claim it is his under the banner of Facebook.

One of the biggest issues with investment was the lack of a true FB board. Zucker is not accountable to anyone and spends billions on a whim. That will be the downfall.

[niroopg]

The Facebook options market opened today. I've been waiting for this.

I bought 10 contracts of puts @ 22 and 25 with an expiry of September 22, 2012 and July 12, 2012, respectively, for $1,890.

Up 18% on the former and 13% on the latter so far.

3:00 p.m. update: Up 26% and 32% so far.

4:00 p.m. update: Up 38% and 41% so far.

Anyone else using the options market?

Very nice job.

[Kohanz]

And now that he and the underwriters have scammed the public of billions, he can bid irrationally and pick up the likes of Oprah browser and claim it is his under the banner of Facebook.

One of the biggest issues with investment was the lack of a true FB board. Zucker is not accountable to anyone and spends billions on a whim. That will be the downfall.

:lol:

[prosper88]

The Facebook options market opened today. I've been waiting for this.

I bought 10 contracts of puts @ 22 and 25 with an expiry of September 22, 2012 and July 12, 2012, respectively, for $1,890.

Up 18% on the former and 13% on the latter so far.

3:00 p.m. update: Up 26% and 32% so far.

4:00 p.m. update: Up 38% and 41% so far.

Anyone else using the options market?


Excellent entry dgodsell. I got 10 Puts at 22 strike for September also but slightly higher premium than you. So do you have an exit target to close out your positions?

[blainehamilton]

Battered down under $27 today but raced back over $28 later afternoon. Dead cat bounce?

[rf134a]

May 29.

USD28.76 and steady descent slope.

Where is FB CEO or FB board? not even a word after the IPO. Did they just cash out and abandoned the sinking ship?


Suckerberg sold $1,138,000,000 worth of shares on the opening bell. A director of some type sold $633,000,000 the same day. For that kind of cash, you can call me whatever you want.

All you suckers, errr, retail investors are stuck holding the bag.

[dgodsell]

Battered down under $27 today but raced back over $28 later afternoon. Dead cat bounce?


Looks like.

End of day Friday profits since Tuesday on previously mentioned put options:

FB P 22SEP12 22: 55%
FB P 21JUL12 25; 35%

[niroopg]

Why is Linkdin suddenly suffering - 10% hit in two days.

[prosper88]

August 20th, 2012. 1.7 Billion Insider held shares unlock and become tradeable. This is the equivalent of 4 FB IPO's. You think insiders will wait and watch their unrealized millions turn to thousands? Going to be a terrible summer for Facebook Longs..

[Bandkill3]

If your going to buy the Facebook stock, just wait for the Quarter earnings and result to see how the company exactly perform. Right now Facebook stock drop an 3% today. :razz: <--- I always hated Facebook and just want that Market Capitalization to tank even further. (Lost about $43B Market Cap :lol:)

[rf134a]

Looks like.

End of day Friday profits since Tuesday on previously mentioned put options:

FB P 22SEP12 22: 55%
FB P 21JUL12 25; 35%

Good job. Most people won't have the guts to do this even if they have the money.


August 20th, 2012. 1.7 Billion Insider held shares unlock and become tradeable. This is the equivalent of 4 FB IPO's. You think insiders will wait and watch their unrealized millions turn to thousands? Going to be a terrible summer for Facebook Longs..

So, it looks like Suckerberg isn't that stupid after all... he cashed in $1.1B worth of shares on opening day and is now watching FB burn.

[dgodsell]

Good job. Most people won't have the guts to do this even if they have the money.

Thanks - If I see triple I'll pull out.

Day Six: Mid-Day monday profits

FB P 22SEP12 22: 68.232%
FB P 21JUL12 25: 101.161%

[blainehamilton]

August 20th, 2012. 1.7 Billion Insider held shares unlock and become tradeable. This is the equivalent of 4 FB IPO's. You think insiders will wait and watch their unrealized millions turn to thousands? Going to be a terrible summer for Facebook Longs..


With any luck, the stock will be in the $3-$5 range at that time, and the flood of shares will pummel it into penny stock territory.

New low territory today, under $26.50. I'd expect it to close under $26.

[taro-chan]

Anyone holding this should get out while they can. This is the 100th anniversary of the Titanic.

[boyoflondon]

Anyone holding this should get out while they can. This is the 100th anniversary of the Titanic.

lol

[blainehamilton]

Anyone holding this should get out while they can. This is the 100th anniversary of the Titanic.


Truer words were never spoken. We should see well under the $25 mark this week.

[1226]

Truer words were never spoken. We should see well under the $25 mark this week.

Maybe tomorrow. Closed at $25.87 today.

[brunes]

Anyone holding this should get out while they can. This is the 100th anniversary of the Titanic.

I am holding onto it until it hits zero :) I'm stupid that way - can never sell at a loss, drives me insane. This would be one of only two stocks I've ever sold at a loss if I sell it...

[dgodsell]

I am holding onto it until it hits zero :) I'm stupid that way - can never sell at a loss, drives me insane. This would be one of only two stocks I've ever sold at a loss if I sell it...

Sounds like the well-known investor bias: "loss aversion".

Google it!

Many, many YLO buyers suffered grievously from this bias.

[mmdc]

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/nasdaq-omx-and-nasdaq-stock-market-boards-announce-program-for-voluntary-accommodations-related-to-facebook-ipo-cross-2012-06-06

[time space]

I am holding onto it until it hits zero :) I'm stupid that way - can never sell at a loss, drives me insane. This would be one of only two stocks I've ever sold at a loss if I sell it...

What was the other one?

[blainehamilton]

What was the other one?

Nortel?

[whampoa]

what was the other one?

rim

[brunes]

What was the other one?

Citibank. Sold it at a loss but soon enough thankfully.


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/nasdaq-omx-and-nasdaq-stock-market-boards-announce-program-for-voluntary-accommodations-related-to-facebook-ipo-cross-2012-06-06

Yeah I am trying to figure out how one files a claim

[Jon Lai]

Citibank. Sold it at a loss but soon enough thankfully.



Yeah I am trying to figure out how one files a claim

Are we even qualified to file such a claim or does your brokerage have to do it? Anyone know?

[Kaitlyn]

It seems only those who were "DIRECTLY" affected by problems are being addressed? I kind of thought it affected everyone/more effect than that. Orders/sells not being filled affected how the stock price fluctuated - which also affected those who held shares...

[dollarsign]

Why is Linkdin suddenly suffering - 10% hit in two days.

Wonder if the SEC would investigate "insider trading" by hackers...

LinkedIn data breach (http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCABRE85511820120607)

Shorting with knowledge of upcoming events?

[brunes]

It seems only those who were "DIRECTLY" affected by problems are being addressed? I kind of thought it affected everyone/more effect than that. Orders/sells not being filled affected how the stock price fluctuated - which also affected those who held shares...

One of the qualifying classes are people who had an order filled but did not receive a confirmation in a timely manner, so were unable to do anything about said order. That includes me and some other posters here, I know that.

[mmdc]

One of the qualifying classes are people who had an order filled but did not receive a confirmation in a timely manner, so were unable to do anything about said order. That includes me and some other posters here, I know that.

Exactly. That was ridiculous.


The program will provide accommodations involving three kinds of orders that were placed during the IPO cross:
...
Buys priced at $42 that were executed in the cross but not immediately confirmed

Many of us had this happen.

[boyoflondon]

Imagine how this guy feels ..

http://i.imgur.com/aukD7.png

[wilsonlam97]

Imagine how this guy feels ..

http://i.imgur.com/aukD7.png

Ouch.

[Jon Lai]

Anyone figure out how to file for damages yet?

[Mark77]

Anyone figure out how to file for damages yet?

Tony Merchant out of Regina is brewing up a class action lawsuit against the management of Facebook.

[LeUgim]

Imagine how this guy feels ..

http://i.imgur.com/aukD7.png

Well, he doesn't feel worse that a guy who has 100 times less revenue and who "invested" 6075 $ in Facebook and lost 2031 $...
If this guy was able to put 600,000 $ for FB, that means he could afford it. And aside of this 600,000 $ in FB, you can easily imagine other millions in other stocks.
Not the same world, that all.

[BennyBP]

week long rise... $32.00 and counting.. anyone still holding and on what basis?

[BryceS]

week long rise... $32.00 and counting.. anyone still holding and on what basis?

Holding my gains of first day, which amounts to 14 shares.

[JWL]

Here's my strategy.

Invest every penny I can find from selling all my other stock, LOC's, Credit Card Cash Advance, etc. at the opening bell.

Sell within 10 minutes.

Get a 50-70% ROI. Pay back my credit, and invest what I made in PM's

Probably already been asked, but how did this work out?

[1226]

Holding my gains of first day, which amounts to 14 shares.

So on the "house money" basis? ;)

[boyoflondon]

Well, he doesn't feel worse that a guy who has 100 times less revenue and who "invested" 6075 $ in Facebook and lost 2031 $...
If this guy was able to put 600,000 $ for FB, that means he could afford it. And aside of this 600,000 $ in FB, you can easily imagine other millions in other stocks.
Not the same world, that all.

$600k was the only amount invested and ONLY in FB. No other securities/holdings.

As the expression goes "all eggs in one basket" ;)

[Magoomba]

Probably already been asked, but how did this work out?

I'm dying to know as well.

[Justin]

week long rise... $32.00 and counting.. anyone still holding and on what basis?

Still have my shares from the first day. Will keep holding.

[techcrium]

Question:

Facebook is currently valued at $100 billion

Google is valued at $200 billion.



Ok...there is no way that facebook is half of Google's worth. Lets look at Google's products: Google maps, android, youtube, search engine, ad sense, chrome, cloud, etc etc


Facebook: ??

[angelok]

Shares Out. 2.1B

P/E 105.8x

EPS $0.31

Book Value $2.29

Last trade @ $33.05

:D:D

[niroopg]

Question:

Facebook is currently valued at $100 billion

Google is valued at $200 billion.



Ok...there is no way that facebook is half of Google's worth. Lets look at Google's products: Google maps, android, youtube, search engine, ad sense, chrome, cloud, etc etc


Facebook: ??

Its currently $70bil, not $100bil (IPO valuation :S).

Facebook is a $10bil comany with $60bil in hype. And significant difficulty with monetizing their user network.

[niroopg]

fb stock price recovering and lots of trading ($33!!) Actually fb's doing better than expected.

Who's selling?

Who are buying?

Lots of turnover from traders because it is tremendously volatile.

As an investor, still crazy overvalued.

[dazz]

I am not a trader or investor,but I TOLD YOU it will recover. That's just common sense. A company with 1Billion users has an amazing potential and I won't be surprised when shares will got over 45 by the end of the year, Especially when FB will find better ways to make money. Since they are now have money to buy companies, I can see it happening. Again, that's just common sense.

[Kaitlyn]

Well, I got rocked by Facebook today... :(

[Omega89]

I am not a trader or investor,but I TOLD YOU it will recover. That's just common sense. A company with 1Billion users has an amazing potential and I won't be surprised when shares will got over 45 by the end of the year, Especially when FB will find better ways to make money. Since they are now have money to buy companies, I can see it happening. Again, that's just common sense.

It's down another 10% after hours. Good thing you aren't a trader or investor with that "common sense" eh. :P

[TheRed]

Well, I got rocked by Facebook today... :(

You still haven't sell it?

This earnings season has been bad and FB is no exception and I think it will take a while before FB can even recover and break even. They still haven't got solid money plan yet and their largest revenue source Zynga is going down too...its like the whole social ship is sinkin'...except for linkdn, only because they can actually milk their users.

I meant, you have to pay to view full profiles of your connections/friends?? ... thats money grabber right there

[ccyk]

and the fact that FB says they are entering mobile market is a big red flag to me. a nice short target till $10

[jonmar]

On the CC they sounded like a bunch of stoned teenagers. No guidance. Glad I bought $27 puts at the close. WS wont love all the 'likes' 'ummms' and 'ya knows' they used.

[ccyk]

google is a far better run company

[Mark77]

google is a far better run company

:lol:

[TheRed]

Ok here's an idea: Charge users to upgrade their account and have the ability to see the full view of their friends' profiles, wall, photos, and etc. On the basic free account, you only get the latest part of your friend's stuff...

Now get me on FB's board, zuckerberg!

[Cerenity]

Ok here's an idea: Charge users to upgrade their account and have the ability to see the full view of their friends' profiles, wall, photos, and etc. On the basic free account, you only get the latest part of your friend's stuff...

Now get me on FB's board, zuckerberg!

i dont think there are that many ppl willing to pay to use FB lol
most ppl are just using FB to post status and pics these days. twitter is a better platform for that, and is a better tool for news.

[Super_Chicken]

Ok here's an idea: Charge users to upgrade their account and have the ability to see the full view of their friends' profiles, wall, photos, and etc. On the basic free account, you only get the latest part of your friend's stuff...

Now get me on FB's board, zuckerberg!


I'm a heavy facebook and twitter user, but if they started charging me for posting stuff it would easily deter me from using either service.

[ccyk]

Facebook, Inc. (FB)
-NasdaqGS

21.88 Down 1.27(5.49%) 2:50PM EDT - Nasdaq Real Time Price

I hope FB will bankrupt. I am sick of people wasting so much time on FB.(so is twitter, cell phone, etc)

[ccyk]

UBS lost $356 million on Facebook, suing Nasdaq for it
By Hibah Yousuf July 31, 2012: 2:16 PM ET


Email Print

UBS said Tuesday that it lost $356 million on Facebook's IPO due to Nasdaq's trading glitches during the company's market debut in May -- and it plans to sue the stock exchange for every cent of it.

"UBS's loss resulted from NASDAQ's multiple failures to carry out its obligations, including both opening the Facebook (FB) stock for trading and not halting trading in the stock during the day," said UBS in its second-quarter earnings press release. "We will take appropriate legal action against NASDAQ to address its gross mishandling of the offering and its substantial failures to perform its duties."

UBS (UBS) said it plans to pursue compensation for the "full extent" of the loss.

Related: Facebook IPO: What the %$#! happened?

The bank's announcement comes just a week after Nasdaq said the $62 million accommodation fund it will use to compensate trading firms for losses incurred by Facebook's botched IPO is "definitive" and that it doesn't plan to set aside any reserves for legal expenses.

In fact, Nasdaq CEO Robert Greifeld said last week that the exchange has "substantial legal and factual defenses to any litigation that has been or could be brought in connection with this IPO."

According to experts, firms that agree to collect their compensation from Nasdaq's $62 million pool, which is still pending approval from the Securities and Exchange Commission, are also agreeing to settle their dispute outside of court and waiving their right to any further legal action. So if UBS is raising the prospects of a lawsuit against Nasdaq, it likely won't accept Nasdaq's offer.

UBS declined to comment further on the possibility it might change its mind and actually settle with Nasdaq after all. And Nasdaq declined to comment Tuesday about whether UBS would still be eligible for any compensation if it went ahead with a lawsuit.

UBS is among the four big trading firms to suffer losses because of Nasdaq's technical problems on the day Facebook made its public debut. But the Swiss bank's losses far outweigh the combined losses of its peers.

Knight Capital Group (KCG) and Citadel Securities each lost between $30 million and $35 million, while Citigroup's (C) Automated Trading Desk reportedly had a trading loses of $20 million.

UBS said that due to Nasdaq's glitches, pre-market orders for Facebook were not confirmed until several hours after Facebook started to trade. As a result, UBS said "orders were entered multiple times before the necessary confirmations from NASDAQ were received and our systems were able to process them."

"NASDAQ ultimately filled all of these orders, exposing UBS to far more shares than our clients had ordered," UBS added.

Knight, Citadel and Citigroup have so far declined to comment on what they think of Nasdaq's accommodation plan.

[Mark77]

:lol:, this junk about to crack $20.

[Mark77]

19.96 :lol: :lol: :lol:

[ronthecivil]

19.96 :lol: :lol: :lol:


Still P/E of around 70.

I suppose if it drops to five bucks a share I will buy some.

[Mark77]

Still P/E of around 70.

I suppose if it drops to five bucks a share I will buy some.

Won't its employees be more demoralized than h*ll because they lost all sorts of money? I just wonder how viable of a business Facebook really is without access to dirt-cheap capital from the markets. Same deal with Google -- that company will fall apart as soon as investors stop giving them an abnormally low cost of equity capital.

[ronthecivil]

Won't its employees be more demoralized than h*ll because they lost all sorts of money? I just wonder how viable of a business Facebook really is without access to dirt-cheap capital from the markets. Same deal with Google -- that company will fall apart as soon as investors stop giving them an abnormally low cost of equity capital.

Google is at least using it's money to buy real companies.

How much money does facebook need to operate? Computer programmers are a dime a dozen.....

[Mark77]

Google is at least using it's money to buy real companies.

:lol:..


How much money does facebook need to operate? Computer programmers are a dime a dozen.....

They're not free, nor is the infrastructure.

[hagbard]

I'll buy...when it hits $7.

[RolandCouch]

How bout dat facebook?

[brunes]

Same deal with Google -- that company will fall apart as soon as investors stop giving them an abnormally low cost of equity capital.

Er.. Google makes a metric crapload of money every quarter and has billions in cash in the bank. They don't need outside money.

[Mark77]

Er.. Google makes a metric crapload of money every quarter and has billions in cash in the bank. They don't need outside money.

Yet nobody outside of Google has ever seen a dime of this 'cash', they basically don't pay US income taxes (so any 'cash' they have is held offshore, or they're not making any income), and they had to take out a mortgage to buy a mere $2B building in NYC last year.

Sure sounds like the traits of a company making a lot of money.... :lol:

[Mark77]

Okay, so Facebook under $18. :lol:

Even I'm getting surprised now...

[speedyforme]

So glad when my mom called me to ask if we should buy when it comes out I told her to stay away.

[blainehamilton]

Okay, so Facebook under $18. :lol:

Even I'm getting surprised now...


A few reverse splits are in order when the next round of shares unlock. When is that, november?


I agree with the statement from the movie 'The Social Network': "You know what's really cool? A billion dollar company."

That's what I saw Facebook's actual maximum value should have been at it's peak - it still has a LONG LONG LONGGGGGGGG way to crash before it reaches back to that territory.


Think PENNY stock...

[Mark77]

A few reverse splits are in order when the next round of shares unlock. When is that, november?



Nah it won't get that bad. But there's certainly many other companies in the sector that are riding on thin air and will suffer problems sooner or later.

[aviador]

Facebook is going the way of MySpace. No wonder since it's a clone of it.

Zuckenberg has demostrated to be unable of innovation, a bit of source code plagiarism, a bit of industrial piracy, a bit of hype media campaign et voila! He had powerful behind scene backers to bring FB to IPO but as CEO he's been incompetent.

Not all companies are successful cloning other's people ideas by taking them one notch up and making money out of the flip. One noticeable exception is Apple which has been able to take an open source operating system (Berkeley Software Distribution Unix) and make a superlative distinctive product with it (Apple's OS.)

The way the company is going, FB stock price will go down to single digit values by the end of this year.

[brunes]

A few reverse splits are in order when the next round of shares unlock. When is that, november?


Actually since all of the Zuckerburg shares are now out of the equation, analysts expect that the next unlock will not be that big of a deal.

[GeneralCho]

Sold my FB today and made a couple hundred dollars. So glad I was able to get rid of it.

[charliebrown]

Down she goes......$19 after-hours; bad earnings release

[rfdrfd]

The trend is your friend.

A simple check on the charts will show you the trend is down. To profit in a down trend, short at quality supply areas. Stick with the trend and you'll be correct more times than you will be incorrect.

[charliebrown]

The trend is your friend.

A simple check on the charts will show you the trend is down. To profit in a down trend, short at quality supply areas. Stick with the trend and you'll be correct more times than you will be incorrect.

Guess the earnings report wasn't too bad...initial response was down; now up to $21

[brunes]

Guess the earnings report wasn't too bad...initial response was down; now up to $21

It's because it showed them starting to monetize mobile, something the naysayers were saying they would not be able to do for a long time. Up 12% in off-hours thus far.

[Kaitlyn]

19.50 0.00 (0.00%)
Pre-market: 24.58 +5.08 (26.05%)

Look at that pre-market jump! wow!

[squadz]

Who's buying in today to short it?

[rfdrfd]

My apologies in again showing charts, but this is what reality is, so ...

FB came out with good news, so stock gaps up. And where would price stop going up to? Where SELLERS > BUYERS (eg. supply > demand).

All you have to do is, look at the history in their chart, where did price come down from before? See that green candle that started it all ? (Down), wrap 2 lines around it, and there's your SUPPLY ZONE.

Look what happened today. Price gapped up to ~$24.25, which is inside this zone where SELLERS > BUYERS. So what should happen to price? Go down. Here's how you'd play it.

1) FB is on a BIG down trend, look for shorting opportunity at supply zones
2) FB gaps up, you check to the left, is it in a SZ ? YES
3) Short FB this morning, say 24.08 (assuming you are not fast enough to catch the high, if you catch the high, even better)
4) price is now 22.94 = Profit of $ 1.14 per share = 4.7% Not bad for 6 hrs of work?

This is yet another example showing stock prices are traded via technicals and charts.

http://imageshack.us/a/img689/8315/89345821.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/689/89345821.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[rfdrfd]

Drop target ? Probably 22.60 to 22.20

But eventually, I think it will reach 20.45 or about there, and maybe even filling the gap to 19.53

[rfdrfd]

As posted from Oct 24, short was at 24, price continues to behave as it should.

Today's closing price: 21.12 = profits of 2.88 per share or 12% gains so far.


My apologies in again showing charts, but this is what reality is, so ...

FB came out with good news, so stock gaps up. And where would price stop going up to? Where SELLERS > BUYERS (eg. supply > demand).

All you have to do is, look at the history in their chart, where did price come down from before? See that green candle that started it all ? (Down), wrap 2 lines around it, and there's your SUPPLY ZONE.

Look what happened today. Price gapped up to ~$24.25, which is inside this zone where SELLERS > BUYERS. So what should happen to price? Go down. Here's how you'd play it.

1) FB is on a BIG down trend, look for shorting opportunity at supply zones
2) FB gaps up, you check to the left, is it in a SZ ? YES
3) Short FB this morning, say 24.08 (assuming you are not fast enough to catch the high, if you catch the high, even better)
4) price is now 22.94 = Profit of $ 1.14 per share = 4.7% Not bad for 6 hrs of work?

This is yet another example showing stock prices are traded via technicals and charts.

http://imageshack.us/a/img689/8315/89345821.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/689/89345821.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[ACC-Major]

Did anyone short any at $24?



why did I bother to ask?

[sctfung]

FB's low point in its 52-week range is US$17.55 per share, with US$45.00 as the 52-week high point. Facebook has a market capitalization of US$44.35 billion. Can FB rebound soon?

It's currently at $19, time to buy??

[Kaitlyn]

FB's low point in its 52-week range is US$17.55 per share, with US$45.00 as the 52-week high point. Facebook has a market capitalization of US$44.35 billion. Can FB rebound soon?

It's currently at $19, time to buy??

Would have been good if you did! Up to $23.56

[aionx]

wooohoo only down 33%. I only invested $600 so i'm just going to hold onto this and see what happens and hope for a miracle :)

[Kaitlyn]

wooohoo only down 33%. I only invested $600 so i'm just going to hold onto this and see what happens and hope for a miracle :)

I'm only down 28%! Much, much better than 55%...

[deal_with_singh]

I'm only down 28%! Much, much better than 55%...

You bought at the IPO? I was heavily suggesting only buying to flip that day. Flipped shares multiple times during that one day...came out ahead pretty nicely!

Currently holding shares that I believe I bought sub-$20's a while back...completely forgot about them until I saw the $28 price tag...now the question is to sell and take profit or wait to see if it goes above IPO prices and make double :D

[Kaitlyn]

You bought at the IPO? I was heavily suggesting only buying to flip that day. Flipped shares multiple times during that one day...came out ahead pretty nicely!

Currently holding shares that I believe I bought sub-$20's a while back...completely forgot about them until I saw the $28 price tag...now the question is to sell and take profit or wait to see if it goes above IPO prices and make double :D

Yea.. I went in having a gameplan and then ignored it all on IPO day. My fault

[aionx]

I couldn't flip anything because of the fiasco with the nasdaq that day. Only found out that my order was executed until after it closed :(

[rfdrfd]

For all those who PM'd me that do care and want to learn, here's the chart from yesterday's online session with instructor (Brandon).
FB yesterday was in a supply zone, so one would have entered a short at 28.78 or 28.80 area. Stop is just a few pennies above 29.53.
I forgot what he said the target was, personally, I'm thinking $25.

Let's see if this plays out or not:

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4237/82940231.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/19/82940231.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[rfdrfd]

wooohoo only down 33%. I only invested $600 so i'm just going to hold onto this and see what happens and hope for a miracle :)


I'm only down 28%! Much, much better than 55%...


Honestly and seriously, think about risk management. Think about the loss. Even if you only invested $100, you should not comfort yourself by saying "its only $100, I can afford to lose that". If it was wrong, get out, admit your mistake and learn how to not make it again.

Or put it another way, do you consistently profit 28% or 33% ? If not, they why do you let yourself lose that much?