Mayor Rob Ford attends rainbow flag raising for International Awareness Day!

[Siskie]

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/05/17/mayor-a-surprise-showing-at-anti-homophobia-event


TORONTO - Mayor Rob Ford came out in support of Toronto’s gay and lesbian community Thursday.

Ford was greeted with cheers when he unexpectedly arrived at the flag raising for the International Day Against Homophobia and Transphobia at City Hall. It is the first pro-gay event Ford has attended as mayor.

Grumbling over Ford’s refusal to attend any gay pride-related events quickly turned to cheers and applause as the mayor appeared on the roof of City Hall near the ceremonial flag pole. Several people shook Ford’s hand and thanked him for showing his support. A few people who started to jeer the mayor were quickly quieted by those appreciative of his surprise attendance.

In his speech, Ford thanked the crowd for taking part in this “absolutely fantastic day” before reading out his proclamation naming May 17 as a day against homophobia and transphobia in the City of Toronto.

“(I) encourage the people of Toronto to send a strong message to the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, two-spirited and transsexual communities, (that) like all the communities, (they) are welcome, safe and valued in this great city we call Toronto,” Ford said.

Earlier this month, Ford’s office had declined the invite from the Toronto chapter of Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) to attend the rainbow flag-raising ceremony.

The mayor had faced heavy criticism for refusing to attend the event and for turning down an invite to march in Toronto’s Pride parade again this year.

Asked how it felt to be at the event, Ford said “great, absolutely great.”

“Let’s hear it for the mayor,” Helen Kennedy, executive director of Egale Canada, said after Ford’s speech. “I also want to thank the mayor for his courage for coming out to join us this morning. We hope to see a lot more of him.”

Councillor Gord Perks was due to read the mayor’s proclamation but seconds before the event, officials from the mayor’s office told him Ford would be attending.

“That was a surprise, a delightful surprise and good for the city,” Perks said.

“When you’re elected mayor you put aside who you were before you ran as mayor and you represent everybody in Toronto and today Rob Ford stepped up and did that, he represented this city.”

Councillor Kristyn Wong-Tam — who has been trying for almost two years to get Ford to attend an event involving the city’s gay and lesbian community — applauded Ford’s decision.

“Our mayor has shown great leadership today,” Wong-Tam said. “He’s demonstrated to the city and to everyone else that the LGBT community is important to him and I’m extremely proud of the mayor.

“I think he received a very warm, very loving hero’s reception and certainly we hope to see him at Pride.”

Irene Miller of PFLAG Toronto stressed Ford’s appearance was important.

“I was just very happy (when I saw him), as PFLAG parents are every time someone comes round and joins us, we are always just happy that that’s another member in our family and open to our community,” she said.

Congrats to Mayor Ford for putting all the negative banter aside and attending the flag raising. Its acts like this that make me proud that I voted for him as Mayor.

It sounds like this will change the view of Mayor Ford in the LBGT community judging by some of the comments in the article. They will now see the great man that he is, being able to put aside all the negativity and attend a special city event :)

--Siskie

[MrKap]

Wow, and to think people could have saved hours of their life, not ranting off in Ford / Gay Pride parade threads, if this happened sooner.

[cheapmeister]

This doesn't mean the mayor will attend the gay pride parade!

[Piro21]

Didn't this thread already get locked?

[WildWolf]

This doesn't mean the mayor will attend the gay pride parade!

He's doing it for votes. His approval rating is low, idiot the guy is.

[Siskie]

Wow, and to think people could have saved hours of their life, not ranting off in Ford / Gay Pride parade threads, if this happened sooner.

Your right. The only thing I can think of is this...

http://i48.tinypic.com/117s2h1.jpg

[Siskie]

Didn't this thread already get locked?

The other thread was a newsbot thread. This is a congratulatory thread to the Mayor and comments about how the LGBT community appreciated his appearance. Watch the video in the news article and you will see for yourself.

[vero95]

smart move. Ford is learning which is a good sign

[flashy_mcflash]

Good for him, credit where it's due for doing his job, especially when it's right outside his door. Wonder why he created all this drama though and didn't just squash it in the media weeks ago.

At this rate of emotional growth, he might even be a slightly below-average mayor by the end of his term! :lol:

[Siskie]

At this rate of emotional growth, he might even be a slightly below-average mayor by the end of his term! :lol:

Hopefully. But after the city ended up with more streetcars instead of subways, that will definitely work against him.

[vero95]

Good for him, credit where it's due for doing his job, especially when it's right outside his door. Wonder why he created all this drama though and didn't just squash it in the media weeks ago.

At this rate of emotional growth, he might even be a slightly below-average mayor by the end of his term! :lol:

he never said he would not attend
the drama was created by you and other commies :facepalm:

[WildWolf]

he never said he would not attend
the drama was created by you and other commies :facepalm:

It's a political move. Your throw around the word commies too loosely. What is a commie to you?

[CDNPatriot]

Over one year of drama over this. I think Ford caved in to pressure. He seemed so uncomfortable to be there. But hey he did that and hopefully the media and the people will start to grill him on what the heck his vision is for this City.

[cheapmeister]

I don't blame mayor ford for not going to the pride parade last year. I would decline the offer to attend too.

[vero95]

It's a political move. Your throw around the word commies too loosely. What is a commie to you?


in this context, city workers who post here to spread propaganda, media companies paid to post here

[WildWolf]

in this context, city workers who post here to spread propaganda, media companies paid to post here

Media companies post on this forum ? News to me.

[BornRuff]

he never said he would not attend
the drama was created by you and other commies :facepalm:

According to organizers, they were explicitly told that he would not attend because of a "scheduling conflict".

[ippon]

a gracious gesture

[BornRuff]

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/05/17/mayor-a-surprise-showing-at-anti-homophobia-event



Congrats to Mayor Ford for putting all the negative banter aside and attending the flag raising. Its acts like this that make me proud that I voted for him as Mayor.

It sounds like this will change the view of Mayor Ford in the LBGT community judging by some of the comments in the article. They will now see the great man that he is, being able to put aside all the negativity and attend a special city event :)

--Siskie

Honestly, this is the most basic form of lip service to the gay community that should have been the very minimum from day one.

Yes, it is good that he went, but it certainly doesn't make him a special person. If he keeps this up, he will be up to the level of the average politician on this issue.

You have to give credit where credit is due, but it doesn't erase the way he has acted in the past. He has a long way to go to make up for the past.

Why would he tell them he was not going to come if he was actually going to come in the end?

[DearSummer]

Honestly, this is the most basic form of lip service to the gay community that should have been the very minimum from day one.

Yes, it is good that he went, but it certainly doesn't make him a special person. If he keeps this up, he will be up to the level of the average politician on this issue.

You have to give credit where credit is due, but it doesn't erase the way he has acted in the past. He has a long way to go to make up for the past.

Why would he tell them he was not going to come if he was actually going to come in the end?

Would you be satisfied if Ford dressed up in leather assless chaps and paraded around licking whipped cream off men's nipples during the Pride parade? Or would that still not be enough for you? ;)

[BornRuff]

Would you be satisfied if Ford dressed up in leather assless chaps and paraded around licking whipped cream off men's nipples during the Pride parade? Or would that still not be enough for you? ;)

I would be scared for life, lol.

But honestly, lets be realistic about this. He has snubbed the gay community at every opportunity until this one last minute appearance. It is a good thing that he showed up this time, but in the bigger picture, he has a long way to go to make up for his past actions.

For comparison, when a deadbeat dad finally shows up for his kids after years of not being there, it is a great thing, but it doesn't make him dad of the year.

Showing up for something like this is just the basic duties of a mayor. Why should we move the goal posts of what makes someone a "great man" just because he was such a jerk in the past?

[transitguy1]

seems like the gay/lesb people are desperate for some attention....as is obvious from the OP

[RolandCouch]

if he was actually going to come in the end?

I see what you did there

[BornRuff]

seems like the gay/lesb people are desperate for some attention....as is obvious from the OP

I think most people wanted at least a base level of respect from their Mayor. Hopefully this continues in the future.

[WildWolf]

He is focusing on getting re-elected even though it's roughly two years away. This is all a political stunt, truth be told, he doesn't care about the Gays, if he didn't care before, do you honestly believe he has found caring, common.

[gizmo8]

He's doing it for votes. His approval rating is low, idiot the guy is.

his ratings is on the upswing...He maybe not the best media friendly person but he is trying to get Toronto books balanced and stop decades of union entitlements and the lack of business sense by some of the left wingers.He got the major unions to agree to concessions which would save the city about $98 million on the term of the contracts plus no fear of strikes that may cripple the city.Sorry but not everyone agree about gay marriages or gay unions and he has all the rights to refuse to attend any gay pride appointments,it maybe not be political correct but what you see is what you get from Mayor Ford....Why wasnt anyone punished for Millers mess with the St Clair line,the La Carte fiasco,the street green bins contracts,the City housing mess.Why is all the lefties here worried about Ford image rather than the financial mess Miller clan left...
.

[WildWolf]

his ratings is on the upswing...He maybe not the best media friendly person but he is trying to get Toronto books balanced and stop decades of union entitlements and the lack of business sense by some of the left wingers.He got the major unions to agree to concessions which would save the city about $98 million on the term of the contracts plus no fear of strikes that may cripple the city.Sorry but not everyone agree about gay marriages or gay unions and he has all the rights to refuse to attend any gay pride appointments,it maybe not be political correct but what you see is what you get from Mayor Ford....Why wasnt anyone punished for Millers mess with the St Clair line,the La Carte fiasco,the street green bins contracts,the City housing mess.Why is all the lefties here worried about Ford image rather than the financial mess Miller clan left...
.

Miller never left a mess, he left a Surplus of over $300 Million. Then Ford decided to take most of that and hand everyone back the $60 vehicle registration tax. The $292 million dollar surplus is not from Ford, it is from the Condo boom in Toronto which brings in revenue and most city run services have been doing budget tightening since Miller was in office as he suggested. Ford threatened the workers not to strike or loose their Jobs, there was no democracy, I believe they call that "bullying". Ford doesn't have the right to refuse the Gay Pride, he is the Mayor, he is the Mayor, you know what that en tales, right ? How come Miller didn't decline when he was asked ? How come Lastman didn't decline when he was first asked ? When Ford is first asked, he declines and says he will be at his cottage. And now he opens the Gay celebrations in Toronto, that is a political stunt.

The La Carte fiasco doesn't affect millions of people everyday like Transit City does, Rob Ford diligently kept drilling everyone that Subways was the way to go, he rides the Scarborough LRT in the middle of the night asking people, rather telling people to want subways. He threatens to unleash "Ford Nation" on the the Liberals when Tim Hudak is elected, which never happened. And you bring up the La Carte issue and the Green Bins contracts, situations that carry little weight, in the grand scheme of things. As for the housing mess, what is Ford doing, he is appointing a former Social housing guy from Detroit Michigan of the United States of America to try to clean up our Social Housing in Toronto, why the USA, why can't he find someone who has lived in them in Toronto to take on the responsibility, why from the USA, why because he has ties with the US, don't tell me he doesn't when this is a man who is in close communication with the Tea Party and frequently visits Chicago. All you can conclude with is, "those lefties" yet fail to see how much more damage the right wing have done, and are doing at present. How come the right want to see the left punished but when the right do something wrong, everyone is suppose to accept it, or "mistakes can happen", or "it had to be done".

[BornRuff]

his ratings is on the upswing...He maybe not the best media friendly person but he is trying to get Toronto books balanced and stop decades of union entitlements and the lack of business sense by some of the left wingers.He got the major unions to agree to concessions which would save the city about $98 million on the term of the contracts plus no fear of strikes that may cripple the city.Sorry but not everyone agree about gay marriages or gay unions and he has all the rights to refuse to attend any gay pride appointments,it maybe not be political correct but what you see is what you get from Mayor Ford....Why wasnt anyone punished for Millers mess with the St Clair line,the La Carte fiasco,the street green bins contracts,the City housing mess.Why is all the lefties here worried about Ford image rather than the financial mess Miller clan left...
.

Compare that amount to what he promised in the election and it is not even in the same ballpark.

There is not much that he has done that shows very much "business sense". He has mostly shown blind devotion to a few very narrow ideologies and an unwillingness to work with the people that he need to work with to get things done, which is not the mark of a good business man by any stretch.

I am going to go out on a limb here and just say that in this day and age, it is not ok to uncomfortable with gay people. We should be past this by now. Gay marriage in this country really shouldn't be an issue anymore either(and it is not, for the vast majority of people. At the federal level, not even the conservatives want to turn back the clock on that issue), but that has nothing to do with the event today. It was not a gay marriage event, it was an anti homophobia event.

This relativism BS where people say it is ok for people to have different opinions about whatever they want is a cop out. There are many issues in this world that rightfully deserve to be debated, but there are also things that are simply right and wrong. I think it is safe to say that homophobia is simply bad.

[Think]

There must of been allot of tears in the crowd..lol

[vero95]

let's be honest whatever Ford does will be wrong :facepalm:
he does not attend = unacceptable, missing opportunity, not doing his job
he does attend = political stunt
commies, make up your mind :facepalm:

[vero95]

According to organizers, they were explicitly told that he would not attend because of a "scheduling conflict".

according to Ford he will not attent the parade but he may attend the events depending on his schedule

Today, Ford told reporters he would have to see about attending Pride events other than the parade this year, depending on his schedule.
http://torontoist.com/2012/04/rob-ford-should-participate-in-pride-period/


Event organizers Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays first sent the mayor an invitation in March. PFLAG’s Toronto chapter said Tuesdaythat the mayor responded in late April, saying he couldn’t fit the event into his schedule but if that changes, he would let them know.
http://www.thestar.com/news/cityhallpolitics/article/1174856--mayor-rob-ford-won-t-attend-gay-outreach-event

[BornRuff]

according to Ford he will not attent the parade but he may attend the events depending on his schedule

http://torontoist.com/2012/04/rob-ford-should-participate-in-pride-period/


http://www.thestar.com/news/cityhallpolitics/article/1174856--mayor-rob-ford-won-t-attend-gay-outreach-event

Your comment was in reply to a post that was explicitly about him attending this event, not pride week.

[NG]

I hate it when conservatives pretend to be normal people.

[neutral]

Finally a good decision. Good on him.

[manmanny]

I hate it when conservatives pretend to be normal people.

I hate it when NDP voters pretend to be educated and intelligent.:razz:

[revelation]

Miller never left a mess, he left a Surplus of over $300 Million.

Is a surplus that comes with frequent tax hikes and fees better or worse than one that is gained through prudent management and decision making?

IMHO, Miller's surplus was paid for by the people, not earned by the administration. What this means to each person will obviously vary, but it is far from impressive for me.

[WildWolf]

Is a surplus that comes with frequent tax hikes and fees better or worse than one that is gained through prudent management and decision making?

IMHO, Miller's surplus was paid for by the people, not earned by the administration. What this means to each person will obviously vary, but it is far from impressive for me.

That is how to keep services running, and at the same time, create a surplus. What is impressive to you, a city run like the state of Alabama ?

[NorthYorker]

He got the major unions to agree to concessions which would save the city about $98 million on the term of the contracts plus no fear of strikes that may cripple the city.Are you talking about garbage collection being contracted out, or some other savings?

[flashy_mcflash]

I hate it when conservatives pretend to be normal people.

http://i.imgur.com/LTeBp.jpg

[BornRuff]

Is a surplus that comes with frequent tax hikes and fees better or worse than one that is gained through prudent management and decision making?

IMHO, Miller's surplus was paid for by the people, not earned by the administration. What this means to each person will obviously vary, but it is far from impressive for me.

Ford just raised taxes in the last budget, and the surplus is pretty much entirely from higher than expected revenues from the land transfer tax. How is this any different than how Miller raised money?

[ippon]

I hate it when conservatives pretend to be normal people.

what do you intend to accomplish with a statement like that?

[ippon]

I hate it when NDP voters pretend to be educated and intelligent.:razz:

what do you intend to accomplish with a statement like that?

[jerrysiz]

I find it rather amusing that the public's expectations of Ford have become so low that simply doing his job is now seen as something worthy of great praise. :facepalm: He showed up for a few minutes and read a statement at an event right outside his office. BFD, that's what a mayor is supposed to do. It's only significant in the fact that it showcases what a boor he has been up until this point, snubbing the gay community and not even doing the bare minimum for an event that brings so much to the city just because of his personal biases. He's the mayor, we should be able to expect him to put aside his personal feelings to attend events like this that are important to Toronto, this is not going above and beyond in any way. Attending the flag raising was the least he could do, literally.

[a-tree]

I find it rather amusing that the public's expectations of Ford have become so low that simply doing his job is now seen as something worthy of great praise. :facepalm: He showed up for a few minutes and read a statement at an event right outside his office. BFD, that's what a mayor is supposed to do. It's only significant in the fact that it showcases what a boor he has been up until this point, snubbing the gay community and not even doing the bare minimum for an event that brings so much to the city just because of his personal biases. He's the mayor, we should be able to expect him to put aside his personal feelings to attend events like this that are important to Toronto, this is not going above and beyond in any way. Attending the flag raising was the least he could do, literally.

You whine when he wasn't going to attend, and you whine when he does attend. What's a man supposed to do?!?!?

[jerrysiz]

You whine when he wasn't going to attend, and you whine when he does attend. What's a man supposed to do?!?!?

And you whine that everyone's being so mean to poor Robbie. :facepalm: He's supposed to do his job in the first place, not make such a point of deliberately not doing it until he's shamed into grudgingly making a token appearance and expect that it will make everyone think he's such a great guy. No one gets kudos (or should) for simply doing the bare minimum their job requires after repeatedly refusing to do even that. We should all be able to expect more from a guy who wants to lead our city.

[a-tree]

And you whine that everyone's being so mean to poor Robbie. :facepalm: He's supposed to do his job in the first place, not make such a point of deliberately not doing it until he's shamed into grudgingly making a token appearance and expect that it will make everyone think he's such a great guy. No one gets kudos (or should) for simply doing the bare minimum their job requires after repeatedly refusing to do even that. We should all be able to expect more from a guy who wants to lead our city.

There is no pleasing you is there.

[Tijuana]

There is no pleasing you is there.

There is definitely not...

[jerrysiz]

There is definitely not...

Ah, and here's tijuana chiming in, adding his non-response to another non-response. Good contribution there.

[Tijuana]

And you whine that everyone's being so mean to poor Robbie. :facepalm: He's supposed to do his job in the first place, not make such a point of deliberately not doing it until he's shamed into grudgingly making a token appearance and expect that it will make everyone think he's such a great guy. No one gets kudos (or should) for simply doing the bare minimum their job requires after repeatedly refusing to do even that. We should all be able to expect more from a guy who wants to lead our city.

So 1 event translates into doing the bare minimum? Is he doing the bare minimum in his term? Cause last time I checked, regardless if you support him or not, he is doing much more than the "bare minimum". I guess we know who the Karen Stintz for Mayor support is ;)

[jerrysiz]

So 1 event translates into doing the bare minimum?

Um...yeah. One event translates into doing the bare minimum, because anything less than that would be nothing at all. Glad to have cleared that up for you.

[Tijuana]

Um...yeah. One event translates into doing the bare minimum, because anything less than that would be nothing at all. Glad to have cleared that up for you.

Your singling him out for this specific event and implying he is doing the bare minimum in his term. I'm not sure what more there is to do for these events, which there are SEVERAL during the year. That's usually what they do. Hazel McCallion does the same as well. Would you say she is doing the bare minimum? :facepalm:

[jerrysiz]

Your singling him out for this specific event and implying he is doing the bare minimum in his term. I'm not sure what more there is to do for these events, which there are SEVERAL during the year. That's usually what they do. Hazel McCallion does the same as well. Would you say she is doing the bare minimum? :facepalm:

No, I'm responding to the topic of the thread, which is about this specific event. If you're not sure what more he could do with regard to these events, maybe you should read up on it before you post, as there are indeed several events for Pride that mayors have routinely participated in without all the shaming and cajoling Ford needed. Events that they routinely participate in as part of their everyday job. Events they participate in because it's the right thing to do as mayor, not because they screwed up so badly and alienated so many people by beligerently refusing to do so for so long that they eventually had to grudgingly do one token appearance to try to salvage their reputation. It shouldn't be worthy of great praise that he's now one rung higher on the scale of basic competence, as you said, other mayors do more than this as a matter of course and no one goes on about how great it makes them.

[BornRuff]

There is no pleasing you is there.

Is it that hard to separate individual acts from his overall attitude on these issues?

This one action is good.

Overall though, he is far behind where he should be. You can't deny that the only reason that this is even news is that he has been such a jerk about this issue for years.

Some people are going way overboard, pretending that this simply ends the issue, or that this makes him "great". This is something that he should have been doing from the start, and if he continues to do this stuff, it will fulfill the role that he should have been filling from the start.

[a-tree]

Is it that hard to separate individual acts from his overall attitude on these issues?

This one action is good.

Overall though, he is far behind where he should be. You can't deny that the only reason that this is even news is that he has been such a jerk about this issue for years.

Some people are going way overboard, pretending that this simply ends the issue, or that this makes him "great". This is something that he should have been doing from the start, and if he continues to do this stuff, it will fulfill the role that he should have been filling from the start.

You can't change the man. He'll always be a homophobe. Just be happy with the concessions he's making.

[BornRuff]

You can't change the man. He'll always be a homophobe. Just be happy with the concessions he's making.

See, that is a very bad thing.

We shouldn't move the goal posts for someone because they are generally a bad person.

Nobody has said that it was bad for him to attend this event, but it certainly doesn't just end the issue or make him a good or great person.

[a-tree]

See, that is a very bad thing.

We shouldn't move the goal posts for someone because they are generally a bad person.

Nobody has said that it was bad for him to attend this event, but it certainly doesn't just end the issue or make him a good or great person.

Stop trying to change what's inside the man and judge him if he doesn't correspond to your idea of a right world. He's making concessions, as a mayor. But don't try to change Ford, the person. That'a realm you don't belong or can say anything about.

At first, it was all about, 'it's the mayor's duty, it's the mayor's duty, it's the mayor's duty!!!'. Now you just want to change the man wholesale, fundamentally, now that he's shown a willingness to compromise. Do you smell blood? If this really was about mayor's duties, you and your little friends would be content. Not happy, but content. And I've said this in other gay related posts as well. For straight people, gay rights issues is all about power. It's about putting yourself up on a pedestal by categorizing homophobes as sinners.

[BornRuff]

Stop trying to change what's inside the man and judge him if he doesn't correspond to your idea of a right world. He's making concessions, as a mayor. But don't try to change Ford, the person. That'a realm you don't belong or can say anything about.

At first, it was all about, 'it's the mayor's duty, it's the mayor's duty, it's the mayor's duty!!!'. Now you just want to change the man wholesale, fundamentally, now that he's shown a willingness to compromise. Do you smell blood? If this really was about mayor's duties, you and your little friends would be content. Not happy, but content. And I've said this in other gay related posts as well. For straight people, gay rights issues is all about power. It's about putting yourself up on a pedestal by categorizing homophobes as sinners.

Moral relativism like in the first bolded part is complete BS. Not everything is just differing opinions. There are some things in this world that are right and wrong.

Homophobia is wrong. Do you disagree?

As for the second part, it is premature to be using a plural there. This was one tiny action that world be common practice for any other normal human being.

The second paragraph is just hyperbole. He did his duty once so far, and neglected it many other times. Doing it once doesn't make him a great man. It is one small step in the right direction. If he shows that he will do his duties consistently and respectfully, that will make people happy, but this one little thing doesn't prove that yet.

[a-tree]

Moral relativism like in the first bolded part is complete BS. Not everything is just differing opinions. There are some things in this world that are right and wrong.

Homophobia is wrong. Do you disagree?

As for the second part, it is premature to be using a plural there. This was one tiny action that world be common practice for any other normal human being.

The second paragraph is just hyperbole. He did his duty once so far, and neglected it many other times. Doing it once doesn't make him a great man. It is one small step in the right direction. If he shows that he will do his duties consistently and respectfully, that will make people happy, but this one little thing doesn't prove that yet.

There is nothing wrong with homophobia, in the sense that one feels uneasy or uncomfortable with homosexuals, or with the idea of homosexuality. How can what one feels ever be subject to a right/wrong judgment? Now, discrimination or prejudice based on homophobia, that would be wrong. Ford doesn't discriminate or exercise prejudice by refusing to gay events. If he had refused to hire someone because of his sexual orientation or made some derogatory remark, that would be a real issue. But thus far, his homophobia has been reserved to his mind only.

What hyperbole? It's true. No one here is saying Ford should be looked at as a 'great' man all of a sudden. What I'm saying is, it was all about "it's the mayor's duty" for you guys. But now it's all about changing his homophobia wholesale. You want to change the man, but you should be content with the role he's now started to take on as a mayor. Leave alone the man. The mayor is making concessions.

[NG]

what do you intend to accomplish with a statement like that?

Ford is just learning to play the Harper game.

He had years to show his support for the GBLT community and those who vote to support them. Years both as mayor and as a city councillor.

Now, after making it clear he isn't a supporter, he's trying to placate a potential political foe in the next election in hope of lulling them into complacency while he, like Harper, institutes incremental conservatism which will include tolerance if not outright passive support for anything hateful of progressive causes including GBLT acceptance.

If I truly believed he reformed his ways and wanted to make amends it'd be a different story but I'm not buying that.

[BornRuff]

There is nothing wrong with homophobia, in the sense that one feels uneasy or uncomfortable with homosexuals, or with the idea of homosexuality. How can what one feels ever be subject to a right/wrong judgment? Now, discrimination or prejudice based on homophobia, that would be wrong. Ford doesn't discriminate or exercise prejudice by refusing to gay events. If he had refused to hire someone because of his sexual orientation or made some derogatory remark, that would be a real issue. But thus far, his homophobia has been reserved to his mind only.

There actually is something wrong with people feeling uneasy or uncomfortable about someone simply because they are gay. That speaks to a huge level of ignorance.

Anyone living in Toronto with any level of emotional maturity and sociability has met many gay people and understands that they are just people.

How can you say that his feelings about homosexual people are reserved to his mind? He has allowed them to manifest themselves into refusing to attend numerous events that all of his recent predecessors have had no problem with.


What hyperbole? It's true. No one here is saying Ford should be looked at as a 'great' man all of a sudden. What I'm saying is, it was all about "it's the mayor's duty" for you guys. But now it's all about changing his homophobia wholesale. You want to change the man, but you should be content with the role he's now started to take on as a mayor. Leave alone the man. The mayor is making concessions.

The "great man" thing was actually a direct quote from the original post.

It is still about his duties as mayor.

Like I said before, a good analogy would be a deadbeat dad. If this deadbeat dad finally shows up for their kid one time after not being there for years, it is a good thing, but it certainly doesn't qualify him as a good dad yet. Doing his "duty" as a dad once doesn't just make the issue go away.

The hyperbole is your attempts to exaggerate what you think people want a ridiculous level that you can easily dismiss as crazy. Nobody has any control over what someone else thinks, but we can have expectations about the way in which they act.

[a-tree]

There actually is something wrong with people feeling uneasy or uncomfortable about someone simply because they are gay. That speaks to a huge level of ignorance.

Anyone living in Toronto with any level of emotional maturity and sociability has met many gay people and understands that they are just people.

How can you say that his feelings about homosexual people are reserved to his mind? He has allowed them to manifest themselves into refusing to attend numerous events that all of his recent predecessors have had no problem with.

What about people who haven't any gay person and knows very little about homosexuality? What if they come from a family or culture that strongly disdains homosexuality and as a result is homophobic himself? Proceed and tell me what exactly is 'wrong' with that. Is it wrong morally? Is it wrong because he's uncomfortable with gays while gays are just people? What really is the problem with feeling uncomfortable around homosexuals? What one feels cannot be controlled. A person may decide to educate himself and thus change his opinion on a subject, but what he feels at the moment, no one has the right to judge. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being homophobic.

His homophobia has been reserved to his mind because he hasn't discriminated or treated the LGBT community with prejudice. Unwilling to attend an event is neither.



The "great man" thing was actually a direct quote from the original post.

It is still about his duties as mayor.

Like I said before, a good analogy would be a deadbeat dad. If this deadbeat dad finally shows up for their kid one time after not being there for years, it is a good thing, but it certainly doesn't qualify him as a good dad yet. Doing his "duty" as a dad once doesn't just make the issue go away.

The hyperbole is your attempts to exaggerate what you think people want a ridiculous level that you can easily dismiss as crazy. Nobody has any control over what someone else thinks, but we can have expectations about the way in which they act.

I never said Ford becomes a 'good mayor' with this one act. I said to take this for what it is instead of trying to change his homophobia. Let Ford hold his own thoughts when it comes to gays. Be happy when he gives you what you asked for.

[ippon]

Ford is just learning to play the Harper game.

He had years to show his support for the GBLT community and those who vote to support them. Years both as mayor and as a city councillor.

Now, after making it clear he isn't a supporter, he's trying to placate a potential political foe in the next election in hope of lulling them into complacency while he, like Harper, institutes incremental conservatism which will include tolerance if not outright passive support for anything hateful of progressive causes including GBLT acceptance.

If I truly believed he reformed his ways and wanted to make amends it'd be a different story but I'm not buying that.

why quote me when you don't answer me?

[BornRuff]

What about people who haven't any gay person and knows very little about homosexuality? What if they come from a family or culture that strongly disdains homosexuality and as a result is homophobic himself? Proceed and tell me what exactly is 'wrong' with that. Is it wrong morally? Is it wrong because he's uncomfortable with gays while gays are just people? What really is the problem with feeling uncomfortable around homosexuals? What one feels cannot be controlled. A person may decide to educate himself and thus change his opinion on a subject, but what he feels at the moment, no one has the right to judge. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being homophobic.

His homophobia has been reserved to his mind because he hasn't discriminated or treated the LGBT community with prejudice. Unwilling to attend an event is neither.

Rob Ford has never met a gay person? He has been on city council for over a decade, where he had colleagues and constituents that are gay.

It is a bad thing if families are instilling homophobic values in their children, but at 42, Rob is his own man and has to be responsible for himself.

It is very easy to figure out that gay people are not scary. The vast majority of people in Toronto have figured that one out.


I never said Ford becomes a 'good mayor' with this one act. I said to take this for what it is instead of trying to change his homophobia. Let Ford hold his own thoughts when it comes to gays. Be happy when he gives you what you asked for.

My post was very clear that it is his actions that I am worried about, not what goes on inside his head. Nobody can tell what is going on in there, but as long as he fulfills his duties respectfully, then this wont be much of an issue.

Nobody every asked for him to make one quick appearance at one event. He has a long way to go to establish that this is a new path and not just a one off event.

[sam123]

Every journey begins with the first step. Am I hopeful Mr. Ford will continue to show support for the GBLT community, not really, but I'm satisfied that he showed up and didn't snub them.

[NG]

why quote me when you don't answer me?

I did. If you don't like my answer you're welcome to express why.

[a-tree]

Rob Ford has never met a gay person? He has been on city council for over a decade, where he had colleagues and constituents that are gay.

It is a bad thing if families are instilling homophobic values in their children, but at 42, Rob is his own man and has to be responsible for himself.

It is very easy to figure out that gay people are not scary. The vast majority of people in Toronto have figured that one out.

You're just trying to project your personal experiences with gays onto Ford, as in, 'I'm ok with gays so he should be as well'. He feels what he feels towards gays. There's nothing 'wrong' about it. Let that be.



My post was very clear that it is his actions that I am worried about, not what goes on inside his head. Nobody can tell what is going on in there, but as long as he fulfills his duties respectfully, then this wont be much of an issue.

Nobody every asked for him to make one quick appearance at one event. He has a long way to go to establish that this is a new path and not just a one off event.

When you set a minimum standard of what's acceptable, you're essentially trying to change a person internally. Just accept that he's homophobic, appreciate that he's making concessions, and move on.

[Tijuana]

Rob Ford has never met a gay person? He has been on city council for over a decade, where he had colleagues and constituents that are gay.

It is a bad thing if families are instilling homophobic values in their children, but at 42, Rob is his own man and has to be responsible for himself.

It is very easy to figure out that gay people are not scary. The vast majority of people in Toronto have figured that one out.



My post was very clear that it is his actions that I am worried about, not what goes on inside his head. Nobody can tell what is going on in there, but as long as he fulfills his duties respectfully, then this wont be much of an issue.

Nobody every asked for him to make one quick appearance at one event. He has a long way to go to establish that this is a new path and not just a one off event.

So why do you care if he is a homophobe? If he doesn't discriminate against the LGBT community and fulfils his duties, which he is doing, then this already is a non-issue. Just because he doesn't want to attend whatever gay events, doesn't make him a homophobe. All these words get tossed around with no research into what they actually mean.


In a 1998 address, author, activist, and civil rights leader Coretta Scott King stated that "Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood.

Now, has Rob Ford shown any or all of these attributes when dealing with the LGBT community? If I don't go to the Punjabi film festival am I now a racist against the Punjabi community? not going to these events makes him a bad mayor but it doesn't make him a homophobe.

[ippon]

I did. If you don't like my answer you're welcome to express why.

my question was;


what do you intend to accomplish with a statement like that?

and your 'answer' was;


Ford is just learning to play the Harper game.

He had years to show his support for the GBLT community and those who vote to support them. Years both as mayor and as a city councillor.

Now, after making it clear he isn't a supporter, he's trying to placate a potential political foe in the next election in hope of lulling them into complacency while he, like Harper, institutes incremental conservatism which will include tolerance if not outright passive support for anything hateful of progressive causes including GBLT acceptance.

If I truly believed he reformed his ways and wanted to make amends it'd be a different story but I'm not buying that.

what are you trying to accomplish with a remark that implies that conservatives are not normal people?

[NG]

my question was;



and your 'answer' was;



what are you trying to accomplish with a remark that implies that conservatives are not normal people?

1) I was stating my opinion on what they are of conservatives and that Rob Ford hasn't had a personal evolution - he's just playing politics so he doesn't come off as evil as he is.

2) Although I certainly don't like most (well...all) of what Harper has done he as effectively introduced Balkanization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkanization) into the Canadian political process. I'm certainly "the enemy" to those who support Harper so I'm returning the favour.

[BornRuff]

So why do you care if he is a homophobe? If he doesn't discriminate against the LGBT community and fulfils his duties, which he is doing, then this already is a non-issue. Just because he doesn't want to attend whatever gay events, doesn't make him a homophobe. All these words get tossed around with no research into what they actually mean.

A-tree is the one who called him a homophobe, and then went on to explain why homophobia isn't a bad thing.

I am simply arguing with him that being homophobic is in fact a bad thing, especially if you are the mayor of Toronto.

Why is everyone getting ahead of themselves with this though? He did his duty on this issue once so far. There is no plural or continuous action displayed yet, so phrasing it that way is incorrect.

[a-tree]

A-tree is the one who called him a homophobe, and then went on to explain why homophobia isn't a bad thing.

I am simply arguing with him that being homophobic is in fact a bad thing, especially if you are the mayor of Toronto.

Why is everyone getting ahead of themselves with this though? He did his duty on this issue once so far. There is no plural or continuous action displayed yet, so phrasing it that way is incorrect.

You don't think he's homophobic?

[BornRuff]

You don't think he's homophobic?

How could I really tell?

His actions over the years certainly display a large degree of ignorance, but I don't know what goes on inside his head.

[CDNPatriot]

Mayor Ford is desperate. His approval rating is at an all time low!

http://www.businessreviewcanada.ca/press_releases/game-change-for-mayor-ford-poll-shows-controversial-mayor-losing-ground-even-with-his-strongest-supp

[a-tree]

How could I really tell?

His actions over the years certainly display a large degree of ignorance, but I don't know what goes on inside his head.

Haha. If you didn't believe he was homophobic you would never have written the scathing criticisms to the degree you have. ***************

[BornRuff]

Haha. If you didn't believe he was homophobic you would never have written the scathing criticisms to the degree you have. ***********.

When have I written "scathing criticisms" about him being homophobic? Please quote some examples.

I have been very clear with you from the start that my concern is with his actions. His outright refusal to have anything to do with the gay community before this was an embarrassment, and if this turns out to be the only olive branch that he extends to them, it will continue to be an embarrassment in the future.

Who really knows what Miller or Lastman's views are on gay people? Who really cares? They did the right things when they were in power, and that is all that really matters.

[a-tree]

When have I written "scathing criticisms" about him being homophobic? Please quote some examples.

I have been very clear with you from the start that my concern is with his actions. His outright refusal to have anything to do with the gay community before this was an embarrassment, and if this turns out to be the only olive branch that he extends to them, it will continue to be an embarrassment in the future.

Who really knows what Miller or Lastman's views are on gay people? Who really cares? They did the right things when they were in power, and that is all that really matters.

No no no. You never say anything about Ford being homophobic. Don't twist my words around. But that is an implicit assumption when you start criticizing the man.

[BornRuff]

No no no. You never say anything about Ford being homophobic. Don't twist my words around. But that is an implicit assumption when you start criticizing the man.

Lol, for someone to criticize Ford it has to be about him being homophobic? There are many many reasons to criticize Ford.

[a-tree]

Lol, for someone to criticize Ford it has to be about him being homophobic? There are many many reasons to criticize Ford.

Again, you're playing with words. Did I say all criticisms of Ford are about homophobia? If you criticize Ford to the degree YOU have, homophobia must be an underlying assumption. Stop pretending like you don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

[CDNPatriot]

Haha. If you didn't believe he was homophobic you would never have written the scathing criticisms to the degree you have. ***************

Another derailed thread thanks to your lack of reading comprehension atree.

Again you really need to get off these boards and address this issue of yours.

[a-tree]

Another derailed thread thanks to your lack of reading comprehension atree.

Again you really need to get off these boards and address this issue of yours.

Why must you whine? Why not put the thread back on track?

[CDNPatriot]

Why must you whine? Why not put the thread back on track?

Reading comprehension issues are still confusing you.

Again refer to this link:

http://learningdisabilities.about.com/od/learningdisabilitybasics/p/rdgcomprhnsn.htm

Best wishes on resolving that.

[a-tree]

Reading comprehension issues are still confusing you.

Again refer to this link:

http://learningdisabilities.about.com/od/learningdisabilitybasics/p/rdgcomprhnsn.htm

Best wishes on resolving that.

This is a thread about Ford, not learning disabilities. Why do you keep derailing threads with your garbage?

[CDNPatriot]

This is a thread about Ford, not learning disabilities. Why do you keep derailing threads with your garbage?

That is in response to your constant reading comprehension issues. Where you continually misinterpret and ask other posters to spell things out for you.

[a-tree]

That is in response to your constant reading comprehension issues. Where you continually misinterpret and ask other posters to spell things out for you.

Why do you tell others about derailing threads and then do the deed yourself? Are you a hypocrite?

[CDNPatriot]

Why do you tell others about derailing threads and then do the deed yourself? Are you a hypocrite?

You were well into thread derailment mode well before me.

[a-tree]

You were well into thread derailment mode well before me.

Why, whatever do you mean? I was talking about Ford. Then you jumped in with a link about learning disabilities. Who's derailing threads now?

[nsx]

:arrow:
Thread derailment + Name Calling + Flamebaiting + Bickering.