Weird Company travel policy!

[Chigu]

I am currently working for a company (which shall remain nameless) out of the country. I'm an expat, and have moved my family down here. I am required to travel back to Toronto for a conference, and of course it is Business class (10 + hrs in a plane).

I would like to exchange my Business class ticket for 3 economy class tickets so I can bring my family with me. The cost of a return Business Class ticket is approximately $7,500. However the cost of 3 economy return tickets is about $5,000. I thought it would be a win-win situation, the company saves money and I get to bring my family along.

However, my request was denied, and the policy is that employees MUST fly business class. When I asked why, I was given 2 reasons

1) We want the employee to arrive refreshed for the conference and not tired.

My response to that, was that I was actually leaving a week before the conference and taking vacation so I could spend more time in Toronto prior to the start of the conference. I don't think it will take my 5 days to recover flying economy over business.

2) It's for the safety of our employees.

My response to that (in my head, not to management) was "I didn't realize that flying economy was so unsafe, I don't think I will ever fly with those hooligans in economy ever again" :)

Has anyone ever heard of such a ridiculous policy? The company bears no additional costs, as we will be staying with family for the entire time, and I will be staying in the hotel only for the few days of the conference.

In fact the company actually saves money!

In the end I bit the bullet, and just bought tickets separately for my wife and daughter.

[Ottomaddox]

The real reason is probably something else... I'm guessing they don't want employees trading down tickets and pocketing the difference in the prices.

[Chigu]

The real reason is probably something else... I'm guessing they don't want employees trading down tickets and pocketing the difference in the prices.


All tickets have to go through the company's authorized channels and booking companies. I don't deal with them directly, the office manager does. I don't even have to pay for the ticket and get reimbursed, they just pay it on my behalf. So they could have just booked 3 economy for cheaper than 1 business.

[manixc]

The real reason is probably something else... I'm guessing they don't want employees trading down tickets and pocketing the difference in the prices.

Pretty much this. And if they did it for you, they have to start doing it for everyone.

[45ED]

Does their insurance cover anything if something happens to your family for the duration of a working trip?

[ippon]

it would be unethical for the company to buy plane tickets for your family.

[konfusion666]

I agree, that's a bit silly. My company's travel policy is pretty liberal from what I've seen so far (my job also involves travel) so I don't think it'd happen where I work. Of course, at my level we have to fly Economy anyways, only bigshot VP's and higher get Biz class tix :P



Does their insurance cover anything if something happens to your family for the duration of a working trip?

Actually, that could be it. Liability. They don't want to be held liable for non-company-related third parties (the guy's wife and kids).

[sandikosh]

The company doesn't want to pay for your family to travel with you. Your company doesn't want unwarranted liabilities.

[Ottomaddox]

All tickets have to go through the company's authorized channels and booking companies. I don't deal with them directly, the office manager does. I don't even have to pay for the ticket and get reimbursed, they just pay it on my behalf. So they could have just booked 3 economy for cheaper than 1 business.

So what? You could _said_ you want the extra tix for family, and sold them on CL. It's a policy that attempts to eliminate shenanigans with purchases made on the company tab.

[spf1971]

Seeing as how you are ok with an economy ticket, they should just buy you one economy ticket and save even more money. Chances are that if they did that, you would be on here complaining about how they expected you to fly economy when you used to be able to fly business class. :facepalm:

[Manatus]

Seeing as how you are ok with an economy ticket, they should just buy you one economy ticket and save even more money. Chances are that if they did that, you would be on here complaining about how they expected you to fly economy when you used to be able to fly business class. :facepalm:

It would be hilarious if that happened. "Oh, you said you didn't need business class because you're taking a vacation beforehand to be well rested, and it's no safer than economy... OK, here's your economy class ticket. Sorry, we don't pay for families."

[Chigu]

Seeing as how you are ok with an economy ticket, they should just buy you one economy ticket and save even more money. Chances are that if they did that, you would be on here complaining about how they expected you to fly economy when you used to be able to fly business class. :facepalm:

Obviously I'd rather fly business, but the pros of having my family come back home to Toronto with me, outweighs the 10 hours I have to sit in economy. But if I had to travel for business without my family, yes it SHOULD be in business class (assuming it's over X hrs).

I didn't think about the liability issue, that could be it, but that's a sensible explanation that they could have just communicated to me. I never expected them to pick up the tab for my family to travel, I only requested it because the total cost to the company was less, and I was willing to downgrade myself to have my family come with me.

[spf1971]

Obviously I'd rather fly business, but the pros of having my family come back home to Toronto with me, outweighs the 10 hours I have to sit in economy. But if I had to travel for business without my family, yes it SHOULD be in business class (assuming it's over X hrs).

I didn't think about the liability issue, that could be it, but that's a sensible explanation that they could have just communicated to me. I never expected them to pick up the tab for my family to travel, I only requested it because the total cost to the company was less, and I was willing to downgrade myself to have my family come with me.

But why SHOULD it be business class? You already said that you were ok with flying economy. If you want to know why they won't do it, it's because people will scam them. You say that it should be business class but that you are ok with flying economy; I bet that if they simply gave you the money for a business class ticket you would fly economy and pocket the difference. Hey, that's exactly what you want to do so I am right.

Now they are paying for comfortable business class seats so their employees are well rested but the employees are showing up tired because they flew economy and pocket the extra money. I know you are saying that you are arriving early so it wouldn't make a difference but next week your fellow employee is flying just in time for the conference. When they refuse him the money he claims it's discrimination because "they let Chigu" do it.

[D582]

There are also tax implications of doing this.

If a company pays for tickets for your wife and kid, they have provided a benefit to you, which you need to be taxed on. However on the other hand, it is unlikely they will be able to deduct that expense as it not a valid business expense. So they have no incentive to do this.

[Chigu]

As for the comments about me wanting to pocket the money, if you actually read any of the above posts I mentioned that the company will keep the difference, not me. That would be their benefit for letting me downgrade so I can bring the family back to Toronto with me.

I was looking at this from strictly a dollars and cents perspective. Didn't think of possible abuse of the policy and/or liability issues.

[No Frills]

I need a business class flight somewhere...that would be the only way I could get some damn rest!

[Manatus]

As for the comments about me wanting to pocket the money, if you actually read any of the above posts I mentioned that the company will keep the difference, not me. That would be their benefit for letting me downgrade so I can bring the family back to Toronto with me.

I was looking at this from strictly a dollars and cents perspective. Didn't think of possible abuse of the policy and/or liability issues.

Well, you're pocketing some of the difference. You're saying "hey, instead of buying me a $7,500 ticket, why don't you just get me a $1,500 ticket and let me keep $3,000 of the difference to buy two more tickets". If they allow that, what about the guy who wants to downgrade and wants $3,000 of the difference for his kid's dental treatment, or to send his kid to camp, or to donate to charity, or to buy a new car... where does the line get drawn? I don't see how it's any better for the company to let you have two extra tickets than it is to do any of those other things.

[Raggie]

This isn't a leisure trip. Its business. Why should they have to pay for your whole family's vacation?

[spf1971]

As for the comments about me wanting to pocket the money, if you actually read any of the above posts I mentioned that the company will keep the difference, not me. That would be their benefit for letting me downgrade so I can bring the family back to Toronto with me.

I was looking at this from strictly a dollars and cents perspective. Didn't think of possible abuse of the policy and/or liability issues.

Instead of flying your family to Toronto during the conference, you asked to have tickets bought to Jamaica for after the conference. Would that still be ok? How about tickets so your parents could go to Australia?

I guarantee that if they started giving people the dollar value of the business trip to spend as they please so long as they complete the trip, people will fly the cheapest route, sleep in their cars and eat McDonald's dollar menu to pocket as much money as they could. In theory what you are asking makes some sense however never underestimate people's imagination and capacity to work a system to their sole benefit.

[dealseeker2011]

Policy is policy even if it sucks! We really can't do anything about it. :(

[stuntman]

policies can be broken.

But I think the real reason behind the policy has been stated and pretty straight forward:

1) They do want their employees to feel refreshed
2) They want to treat all employees equally. The policy is EVERYONE gets a business class ticket
3) Paying out money for non-employees would be a major problem. How are they going to account for that to the people they report too? Will that start opening the floodgates for others to do the same?

[joepoonie]

OP, the company isn't going to pay for your family on their dime. That's obviously the reason why they aren't letting you. For 99.9% of the companies out there, if you're on a business trip, there is no way that they'd pay for your family's vacation at the same time.

[Joelllle]

policies can be broken.

But I think the real reason behind the policy has been stated and pretty straight forward:

1) They do want their employees to feel refreshed
2) They want to treat all employees equally. The policy is EVERYONE gets a business class ticket
3) Paying out money for non-employees would be a major problem. How are they going to account for that to the people they report too? Will that start opening the floodgates for others to do the same?
4) As mentioned, paying for your family is not something they can claim as an expense and would be a taxable benefit to you.

[Mark77]

I'm pretty sure Nortel had negotiated massive volume discounts with Canadian Airlines in the 1990s, especially with respect to business class travel. Maybe your employer has done the same, such that, there isn't a massive gap between business class and economy class travel.

Also, if they were to start buying your family tickets, then they would have to report the tickets as taxable benefits, and you would be required to pay income taxes on them.

If I was the boss, I'd think strongly about making you fly in economy class (without paying for your family of course), since you just have essentially admitted that you can travel in economy class, long-haul, without difficulty.

[Chigu]

The comment about making me fly economy without family, doesn't make sense. Of course flying economy is fine, are u some sort of elitist that can only fly business. Am I able to fly economy, absolutely. But if I am doing it for business why would I inconvenience myself without getting anything in return.

I'd just brought it up to my boss as a request, not an argument. I just posted on here because the reasons for the policy were those mentioned in the original post.

[Raggie]

Oh so you're just being greedy.

[a-tree]

I'm pretty sure if you wanted to fly economy by yourself they would have been more than happy to accommodate. But they really shouldn't have to pay for your family though.

[whampoa]

OP, the day you pay for your own plane ticket, you can do the hell you want.

[Chigu]

Being greedy would be if I asked them if I could pocket the difference. I was looking at it as a win win situation. The overall cost of the ticket would be 5k instead of 7500. And the company would be keeping the difference.

The reason i thought that it was weird was for the reasons given. Had they said, it's because of liability, they would then have to do it for everyone, or possible abuse or any of the other reasons people have mentioned in this thread, I wouldn't have thought it was weird.

[Raggie]

But you ARE pocketing the difference - by having the company spend their savings on your family. The money saved is the company's money.

[joepoonie]

Being greedy would be if I asked them if I could pocket the difference. I was looking at it as a win win situation. The overall cost of the ticket would be 5k instead of 7500. And the company would be keeping the difference.

And that is the definition of "pocketing the difference". You are pocketing the amount of money that you would have to spend to fly your family home, since you want the company to pay for them to fly home with you.

[Manatus]

Being greedy would be if I asked them if I could pocket the difference.

Maybe you're not pocketing the whole difference, but you're definitely splitting the difference. The company is buying a ticket for YOU, and you alone, because you're their employee. What you're saying is "hey, if I make my ticket cheaper, you'll save $5,000, so I'll agree to it if you give me $2,500 of that, ok? Win win!". It makes absolutely no difference to the company whether you spend that $2,500 on airplane tickets for your family, or whether you blow it all at a casino, no difference at all, so who cares? Why does it make it somehow more acceptable to the company if you spend the money on a family vacation?

[Ojam]

The comment about making me fly economy without family, doesn't make sense. Of course flying economy is fine, are u some sort of elitist that can only fly business. Am I able to fly economy, absolutely. But if I am doing it for business why would I inconvenience myself without getting anything in return.

I'd just brought it up to my boss as a request, not an argument. I just posted on here because the reasons for the policy were those mentioned in the original post.

You're getting paid aren't you?

[ippon]

for the love of god, if you like and value your job, do not press this issue with your company anymore.

[Mulder and Scully]

There are also tax implications of doing this.

If a company pays for tickets for your wife and kid, they have provided a benefit to you, which you need to be taxed on. However on the other hand, it is unlikely they will be able to deduct that expense as it not a valid business expense. So they have no incentive to do this.

The OP seems to have either missed or glossed over this.

[Chigu]

I think that some ppl have taken this thread out of context. I am not pressing this issue with the company, and I even mentioned in my original post that I bought tickets for my family personally. I was just commenting on the two reasons given.

[Wing Nut]

I don't think this policy is weird at all. They're paying your costs, not your family's. No matter how you frame it. It's simple.

[CDNPatriot]

The company doesn't want to pay for your family to travel with you. Your company doesn't want unwarranted liabilities.

+ 1

Where I work you cannot ask or accept an offer by someone that reports to you to go and do a Tim Horton's run for you. If you accept or ask them and even though it's on their break, if they get hit by a car on the way there or back the company has a liability.

Perhaps, legally there is an issue with paying for a family ticket and then something happens the company has to pay damages.

[CDNPatriot]

Maybe you're not pocketing the whole difference, but you're definitely splitting the difference. The company is buying a ticket for YOU, and you alone, because you're their employee. What you're saying is "hey, if I make my ticket cheaper, you'll save $5,000, so I'll agree to it if you give me $2,500 of that, ok? Win win!". It makes absolutely no difference to the company whether you spend that $2,500 on airplane tickets for your family, or whether you blow it all at a casino, no difference at all, so who cares? Why does it make it somehow more acceptable to the company if you spend the money on a family vacation?

For tax reasons will the company still be able to write off all of those family tickets?