Travails of Unemployed BBA Accounting Graduate

[wizard111]

I have recently graduated from UTSC BBA's co-op program and so far have no luck in finding a decent acctg position. I send about 20 applications per day but no luck. I have about 8 months of co-op experience plus some campus work experience. What I am finding is why is it so hard to find a job for a univ graduate these days. After all, 4 years of degree means nothing? They say univ is supposed to get you out of "Mc Jobs" but I don't see how it is true. I have $40k debt. What is frustrating is that I paid significantly higher for my business degree than other univ graduates b/c apparently U of T thinks all UTSC business graduates will find hot shot jobs. I have even tried gen business/mktg positions but even they seem so hard to get. I used to think of the hard acctg courses I took @ UTSC will put me in a competitive position compared to other univ graduates, but it doesn't seem true. It makes me wonder who get the jobs. Is it only ppl with good networks will find good jobs. If that is the case, I hope that UTSC so -called "best preprofessional management" program should say when you graduate from high school, you need to have good contacts b/c we will not help you find job in any way. I rather should have went to college.At least I wouldn't have regretted on not getting a job as I wouldn't have paid so much money to my education.

[CatDog]

uot isn't anything special - what did you think would happen?

Big 4 recruiting is coming up, make it happen.

[asimon]

I have recently graduated from UTSC BBA's co-op program and so far have no luck in finding a decent acctg position. I send about 20 applications per day but no luck. I have about 8 months of co-op experience plus some campus work experience. What I am finding is why is it so hard to find a job for a univ graduate these days. After all, 4 years of degree means nothing? They say univ is supposed to get you out of "Mc Jobs" but I don't see how it is true. I have $40k debt. What is frustrating is that I paid significantly higher for my business degree than other univ graduates b/c apparently U of T thinks all UTSC business graduates will find hot shot jobs. I have even tried gen business/mktg positions but even they seem so hard to get. I used to think of the hard acctg courses I took @ UTSC will put me in a competitive position compared to other univ graduates, but it doesn't seem true. It makes me wonder who get the jobs. Is it only ppl with good networks will find good jobs. If that is the case, I hope that UTSC so -called "best preprofessional management" program should say when you graduate from high school, you need to have good contacts b/c we will not help you find job in any way. I rather should have went to college.At least I wouldn't have regretted on not getting a job as I wouldn't have paid so much money to my education.

When did you actually start applying for jobs? If you graduated in April and wanted to start working now you should have started applying last September. As the above poster mentioned the next recruiting cycle is coming up. I know you mentioned you're looking for a "decent" accounting position but maybe you should accept something to have on your resume for when you start applying for the bigger jobs in Sept. Because having some experience is better than having a gap. Good luck!

[bluejazzy]

i knew alot of people in co-op that worked very crappy positions. Unless you've been a junior/staff accountant during co-op, don't be surprised finding work to be difficult

[imflying12]

I smell troll. Your cover letter and resume probably sucks. Take advantage of the career centre.

[poppy1337]

UTSC is a second tier business school. I know a few friends who did really well through their business program primarily because of co-op, many of which did land jobs at the Big 4 / mid sized accounting firms. The recipe to success is above average marks + a resume and cover letter tailored specifically to the firm you are applying to + decent networking + good communication skills + above average ECs. You clearly missed the boat on one or more of the above.

Either way, it's not too late. You have the entire summer off so make good use of it. Make use of all the business cards you acquired during the networking sessions, email recruiters for coffee dates/ phone conversations and apply again this September.

[kanaha21]

A friend of my dad has a daughter who graduated from UoT St. George in finance with an over 90% average, decent networking/contacts, and an admirable resume for someone her age which I looked over for her. Took her a year and a half to land a job in her field. Starting salary: ~35k. The point is that considering the global financial industry has laid off upwards of 100k people in the past year and a half, not counting collateral layoffs, and unless you have a very specific and in-demand niche - it's going to be difficult. Leverage every opportunity you can: profs, former employers, contacts, even a familiar TA may be able to help you and consider volunteering on side projects to improve your resume. Occasionally you may even be able to find an unpaid internship to employment position - although from what I've been told companies are taking advantage of the cyclical large numbers of unemployed graduates and essentially treating them as free labour - but something is better then nothing. Also, look into applying for freelance consulting companies as certain ones are more willing to take on recent grads because it's on a project to project basis. The pay isn't stable but it proves you can demonstrate leadership and it may help get your foot in the door.

How did you manage to accumulate 35k in debt anyway? I don't live at home and I don't even owe one third of that - and you were in coop so you had to have been working as well.

[world25]

I have recently graduated from UTSC BBA's co-op program and so far have no luck in finding a decent acctg position. I send about 20 applications per day but no luck. I have about 8 months of co-op experience plus some campus work experience. What I am finding is why is it so hard to find a job for a univ graduate these days. After all, 4 years of degree means nothing? They say univ is supposed to get you out of "Mc Jobs" but I don't see how it is true. I have $40k debt. What is frustrating is that I paid significantly higher for my business degree than other univ graduates b/c apparently U of T thinks all UTSC business graduates will find hot shot jobs. I have even tried gen business/mktg positions but even they seem so hard to get. I used to think of the hard acctg courses I took @ UTSC will put me in a competitive position compared to other univ graduates, but it doesn't seem true. It makes me wonder who get the jobs. Is it only ppl with good networks will find good jobs. If that is the case, I hope that UTSC so -called "best preprofessional management" program should say when you graduate from high school, you need to have good contacts b/c we will not help you find job in any way. I rather should have went to college.At least I wouldn't have regretted on not getting a job as I wouldn't have paid so much money to my education.

Keep applying and someone will take you!



You send out 20 resumes per day. How many phone interviews did you get? How many face-to-face interviews did you get?

[Kappa21]

Its a f0u0c0k0ing game bro........
Everyone is in it......

All i can say is stick your head high. Network with anyone......even people (legit people) on RFD and just put yourself out there....... something will come.
Sometimes its hard for Uni students to see reality...... they dont want to hear 40K salaries...but 80K with car and expenses.......its sweet, but it wont happen now... just gotta work hard on it....... what you learned in school is nothing compared to what is like in the real world. Just be out there........


Best of luck!

[insurance1]

Hi OP,

I would say be willing to accept any job, at any salary. Don't just looking at accounting jobs, or jobs over $40,000, for example. You'll probably need to start at the bottom (and I mean the very bottom).

Anyway, just be willing to work hard, and start anywhere in order to prove yourself. Don't holdout for a job in your field, as that may never come in today's world. I'm making low thirties, but eventually I know I can do better if I stick it out.

[adehbone]

A friend of my dad has a daughter who graduated from UoT St. George in finance with an over 90% average, decent networking/contacts, and an admirable resume for someone her age which I looked over for her. Took her a year and a half to land a job in her field. Starting salary: ~35k. The point is that considering the global financial industry has laid off upwards of 100k people in the past year and a half, not counting collateral layoffs, and unless you have a very specific and in-demand niche - it's going to be difficult. Leverage every opportunity you can: profs, former employers, contacts, even a familiar TA may be able to help you and consider volunteering on side projects to improve your resume. Occasionally you may even be able to find an unpaid internship to employment position - although from what I've been told companies are taking advantage of the cyclical large numbers of unemployed graduates and essentially treating them as free labour - but something is better then nothing. Also, look into applying for freelance consulting companies as certain ones are more willing to take on recent grads because it's on a project to project basis. The pay isn't stable but it proves you can demonstrate leadership and it may help get your foot in the door.

How did you manage to accumulate 35k in debt anyway? I don't live at home and I don't even owe one third of that - and you were in coop so you had to have been working as well.

She must have been socially awkward, horrible at interviews or lazy. I am sorry anyone with a 90+ is going to get "80%" of on-campus interviews with all the major banks.

[warrenbuffet]

My friend was in the same boat as you less than 2 years ago. Graduated from UTSC with a BBA in accounting. Did 3 co-op terms, volunteered, had a great resume for a new grad. $40k debt just like you. He couldnt find a job and only managed a few interviews. He went over to a neighbour who was working in the same field and asked him if his company was hiring. His neighbour talked to someone at work, my friend got an interview and was hired very soon after. Thats the good part. The bad part is that in his 2 years with them he has worked overtime pretty much every single week (he is on salary), usually works Saturdays, works Sundays atleast once, maybe twice a month, was only allowed 1 week of vacation last year, is not allowed to take vacation during any of the months where quarterly reports are to be published (thats 4 months of the year he can not have the option of taking vacation).

So basically what I'm trying to say is you will have to network your butt off to find something in your field. When you do, expect to make $35-$45k a year working long as hours, sometimes 14+ days in a row, and feel burnt out 6 months in to the gig.

[iceee_queen]

Well you have to manage your priorities. Do you
A) want to only find an accounting job and will reject other jobs
B) want to pay off your debt and is willing to take on general roles such as Business Analyst, Financial Analyst or other business office jobs

I think with all the surplus of accounting grads, its hard to find a job in this market. I think its time to face reality and to start off with a Business Analyst position or book keeping/auditing to build up your experience. Than apply for CA positions and write your CA test.

Also, you said you were sending 20 resumes a day, I think that is way too many. It means you're not tailoring your resume or cover letter to the specific company that you are applying to. You should only be sending 1-3 resumes a day and 10-20 a week. Recruiters don't have time to read your whole cover letter so use key words, like specific accounting programs you learned from co-op. Did you try connecting with your old managers is those co-op roles, maybe they have openings coming up.

Good Luck with job hunting. Try to stay optimistic :)

[Engi-Nir]

doesn't utsc suck? i graduated from st george eng but confused with utsc and erindale, back then it was a joke and I figure
d it still was...oh well...

[Coke355mL]

B) want to pay off your debt and is willing to take on general roles such as Business Analyst, Financial Analyst or other business office jobs

Careful on the advice, a Business Analyst or Financial Analyst is far from a general role and are considered intermediate roles to senior roles, depending on the level. Both requires typically 5 years of related experience.

[MLVancouver]

I don't know your exact approach. But spraying out 20 applications doesn't sound like you are taking time to tailor it to each job position. Try to incorporate words and skills in the job listing directly into your resume. Many times there are so many applications, that these keywords are used to pickup the people who will move onto the next phase. I know I am in a similar boat as you, except thankfully not with debt due to my parents financing my school. It is rough though, knowing that they have paid all that much, when at the end, job prospects do not look all that great. I guess we just have to suck it up and start at the bottom. Thinking back though, I would have avoided the expensive university schooling, but I enjoyed the process and the learning nonetheless. Consider ourselves fortunate to have been able to indulge in higher learning.

It seems like there is a HUGE amount of people who want to become a CA, even here on the west coast. This is favourable to employers as they can offer very low salary and many people work for free just to build experience. I decided to change my major from accounting for this reason, as well as many other personal ones.

Best of luck to you my friend. Just keep plugging away and stay positive. Always network with everyone you can. You would be surprised on what you may just stumble across.

[winner2000]

It may be time to reconsider your CA route, cut your losses, and perhaps try going for the CMA instead.

[winner2000]

I think with all the surplus of accounting grads, its hard to find a job in this market. I think its time to face reality and to start off with a Business Analyst position or book keeping/auditing to build up your experience. Than apply for CA positions and write your CA test.



IMO, CA firms don't really value experience outside of CA firms. I don't know if this is necessarily the best approach if his ultimate goal is to obtain his CA designation.

[vikkischu]

I posted a thread called, 'accounting co-op at private firm' and it was about how some accounting firms in Toronto is 'charging' people money for a work experience. There are few around scarborough area and the last time I went there for a trial class, there were approximately 30 people in the tiny office room.
One firm, the total price for the training for 4-5 weeks Mon-Fri was about $1000. I signed up paying only $100 deposit.
And as I have done some research that was the cheapest rate among those private firms offering co-op.
On my first class, there were about 22 people (all paid $1000 upfront upon signing up) packed in a small office area.
By the end of each classes I felt dizzy because of the amount of heat that 22 people in a packed area were emitting.

However, the instructor, a CGA, was very unprofessional and lousy instructor. He always started 15 minutes late, he was taking 45-1hour so-called 'break and he was fitting everything according to his schedule. He himself claims that he wants to help students however that's whole load of BS. He just wants money from the students and I kinda sensed that the students who paid $1000 lump sum were quite regretting their decision. They simply come to class because they just can't let that money go into a complete waste. He also claims that 95% of his students get a job after the 'training' and most of them go to a CA firm.

The class was somewhat useful in a sense that I got to learn quickbooks and now I'm confident to learn it on my own.
But I don't think it's totally worth $1000. I quit after about two weeks. Didn't lost money since I only paid $100.
You do get some accounting experience with softwares and etc. and the instructor do provide you with a reference.

The bottom line is that this is the current situation. Too many people are competing in the market, accounting not an exception.
The thread i posted had replies that it's disgusting how people 'pay' to get experience but really, these days, it's really difficult to get an accounting position.
Paying a grand is not a joke and 22 students, packed in a small area...those co-op programs, apparently are getting popular and more and more firms i see are doing it because there are plenty of students out there looking for experience and job and they will pay to signup!
And since you can accept cash, you don't even have to report it on your tax return!
Even internships, firms do not want unexperienced people. They don't want to teach them - they just want people to do everything the moment they take first step into the office.

I do know couple of friends who switched towards CMA because they started to wonder whether they REALLY HAVE TO get a CA.
But never give up though. Something might come up...who know......

[Applecart]

She must have been socially awkward, horrible at interviews or lazy. I am sorry anyone with a 90+ is going to get "80%" of on-campus interviews with all the major banks.

That's what I thought. If she really graduated from a top tier university with 90+ average, she would have been interviewed by pretty much every top company that she applied to. And none of those companies would offer less than $45,000 to their new employees. The fact that she only got a $35,000 job suggests that this little story is probably ********. Or that she is a terrible communicator when it comes to interview.

[renoldman]

Yeah, it is a ***** out there.

So many employers are not willing to train new graduates, and they don't have to because their is quite a number of people with experience hungry for a job

The places vikkischu mentioned are out there.

However, I think employers are catching on that these pay for experience exist and the experience obtained is essentially useless.

I mean you pay $1 or 2k to "work" about a month and then they tell you they will say 2 years if someone is calling in regards to a reference.

Unfortunately, someone who has been working only a month probably doesn't know enough to be left alone.

I view these pay for experiences as proof that the accounting field is overcrowded and that those overseeing these students couldn't get a real job outside of the tax season.

Pretty good for them, seeing as how April is the end of the busy season for personal tax and new graduates are just completing their studies at the same time.

I posted this before, but I had an offer in 2008 while in school and was excited to start my career in my field. The recession hit hard and I accepted the reality that I had to do something else. Yeah, manual labour isn't sexy, but when you essentially have no real work experience you have to do what you have to.

[the_fm]

IMO, CA firms don't really value experience outside of CA firms. I don't know if this is necessarily the best approach if his ultimate goal is to obtain his CA designation.

just not CA firms but almost every accounting firms. unless you worked for the government, your experience is pretty much moot :facepalm:

[wizard111]

I'm not going for CA anymore. I already knew during my co-op getting into Big 4 is not for me. I wanna do CGA. I am even open to other fields like mktg, finance for entry level positions but even those seem pretty hard to get into. Was this like for graduates all the time?

[wizard111]

You mentioned about coffee dates. Why would a recruiter go out on coffee date with me? And how do I even bring up this subject anyway?


UTSC is a second tier business school. I know a few friends who did really well through their business program primarily because of co-op, many of which did land jobs at the Big 4 / mid sized accounting firms. The recipe to success is above average marks + a resume and cover letter tailored specifically to the firm you are applying to + decent networking + good communication skills + above average ECs. You clearly missed the boat on one or more of the above.

Either way, it's not too late. You have the entire summer off so make good use of it. Make use of all the business cards you acquired during the networking sessions, email recruiters for coffee dates/ phone conversations and apply again this September.

[noreason]

Recruiters will take you out for coffee to get to know you a bit better before they make a judgement on how they can help you. It's better than sitting in their office for a formal interview.

Getting your first accounting job and getting your foot in the door is the hardest. Usually you have nothing to offer to the employer except your personality, perceived work ethic and attitudes.

Once you get that first job, work your ***** off both at work and your studies. Do not blow off OT work because you need to go to classes but don't let yourself fail in your studies either. It's going to be tough working more than 40 hours a week in accounting and doing 10-20 hours of studies on top of that!

It pays off though, after couple years of progressive work experience (ie you can show that you've been promoted) the jobs and recruiters will be looking for you.

[adehbone]

You mentioned about coffee dates. Why would a recruiter go out on coffee date with me? And how do I even bring up this subject anyway?

If you are asking this, no wonder you are unemployed. Spraying 20 applications daily to the blank sky.

If you are paying anyone and everyone will meet you for a coffee. You need to learn how to correctly network and reach out to your contacts. May want to start with where you did your co-ops.

[TheFinalWord]

If you are asking this, no wonder you are unemployed. Spraying 20 applications daily to the blank sky.

If you are paying anyone and everyone will meet you for a coffee. You need to learn how to correctly network and reach out to your contacts. May want to start with where you did your co-ops.

If he/she is asking this, then they are smart enough to ask questions to learn more.

Keep asking questions and remember that the first job is always the toughest. Once you can find that, you'll have experience when looking for your second job (if necessary).

Good luck and keep working at it. Take the tips and feedback provided here and on other job sites and you'll eventually break through.

[wizard111]

Thats encouraging. Are u an experienced accountant urself?

Recruiters will take you out for coffee to get to know you a bit better before they make a judgement on how they can help you. It's better than sitting in their office for a formal interview.

Getting your first accounting job and getting your foot in the door is the hardest. Usually you have nothing to offer to the employer except your personality, perceived work ethic and attitudes.

Once you get that first job, work your ***** off both at work and your studies. Do not blow off OT work because you need to go to classes but don't let yourself fail in your studies either. It's going to be tough working more than 40 hours a week in accounting and doing 10-20 hours of studies on top of that!

It pays off though, after couple years of progressive work experience (ie you can show that you've been promoted) the jobs and recruiters will be looking for you.

[noreason]

Yep, never really worked hard and coasted through university and paid with a really tough start at my career. Started my way as an accounting clerk and worked my butt off, couple jobs later I am in a senior finance position with a group of staff. Look for jobs that will give you opportunities for growth rather than just highest pay, ie F500 corps. They look better on your resume.

[BananaHunter]

It's about supply and demand. Times have changed. Too many people have a degree and there are not enough jobs for them. It happens across just about every field. The only way to have avoided it was to get into a trade where there is real shortage.

Success has very little to do with your education. Success is based on your volume of connections, demographic luck, your social skills, and your IQ. Higher IQ doesn't directly correlate with success. There's a threshold. Read the book called Outliers. It's very interesting and sheds some light on people in our generation. If you graduated recently, that's about the worst time because you go right into a recession. Most graduates now are taking jobs that are worse than the graduates a few years before. These new graduates will be disadvantaged throughout their careers because the graduates a few years before are more likely to move up higher due to their exposure to "better" jobs. Yes someone is probably going to make a post about how this is not true because they have a friend that did this and that. Well, there are always exceptions.

You can't change the market, so focus on what you can change: yourself. Reconsider if your resume is good enough. When I graduated, it took months to realize the flaws of my resume. Try different approaches to applications. My experience says applying online has absolutely the lowest chance of success. I've only ever scored 1 interview by going through a company website. The sad truth is that often managers already have someone in mind they want to hire. They just need to post externally and interview a few more people to make it look fair. Most of my interviews came from job agencies or direct contact with a manager. While you are at it, read some self help books to get some insights into how to develop your social skills. You can't change your gender/age/race. What you can do is work at your social skills and build connections. Easier said than done.

[Rainne]

Its a f0u0c0k0ing game bro........
Everyone is in it......

All i can say is stick your head high. Network with anyone......even people (legit people) on RFD and just put yourself out there....... something will come.
Sometimes its hard for Uni students to see reality...... they dont want to hear 40K salaries...but 80K with car and expenses.......its sweet, but it wont happen now... just gotta work hard on it....... what you learned in school is nothing compared to what is like in the real world. Just be out there........


Best of luck!

Lol

I don't think any business grad expects 80k + company car & expensives upon graduation

Anyhow, I don't see salaries rising any time soon. Companies have started to realize that 1st world country employees (unless they have a very specific/niche skillset, or creative genius which Asia lacks) are overpaid for the amount/quality of work they do. HR/recruiter are basically hiring you for "fit", personality and image these days (all things equal).

Who you know is so much more important than what you know in business. It's a very social field.

[adehbone]

If he/she is asking this, then they are smart enough to ask questions to learn more.

Keep asking questions and remember that the first job is always the toughest. Once you can find that, you'll have experience when looking for your second job (if necessary).

Good luck and keep working at it. Take the tips and feedback provided here and on other job sites and you'll eventually break through.

Maybe you should you hand out free hugs too? Reality is the questions OP is asking are ones that most business undergrads ask in 2nd year (that is correct). Seeing as all the schools handout information to networking and all the business clubs focus on that aspect. So OP is 2 years at least behind, time to hustle and get to work.

PS, don't tell me this a UTSC career centre thing. Because I have met UTSC students and been to their commerce conference before. The people who are in the student union over there network like mofos and champs.

[kanaha21]

That's what I thought. If she really graduated from a top tier university with 90+ average, she would have been interviewed by pretty much every top company that she applied to. And none of those companies would offer less than $45,000 to their new employees. The fact that she only got a $35,000 job suggests that this little story is probably ********. Or that she is a terrible communicator when it comes to interview.

All the facts I stated about her are true. She had to bar tend for about a year and a half before she landed stable work at a firm. It's not as though she did not work at all after graduation but it was scarce and freelance stuff. From when I met her she had a pretty average disposition/communication. She was from a very traditional Chinese family - take from that what you will. Also keep in mind she graduated last year when banks and financial institutions were laying off more workers than at any point in the last 20 years - so most companies were getting quite a few applications per job.