Are you joining the Quebec Students?

[_Allan_]

Supposedly, Ontario students are planning strikes to support Quebec ... Among other things, like making the 30% tuition rebate available to more than 1/3 of students.

Anyone here know of such events, or are news agencies just blowing smoke?

[grant_]

Supposedly, Ontario students are planning strikes to support Quebec ... Among other things, like making the 30% tuition rebate available to more than 1/3 of students.

Anyone here know of such events, or are news agencies just blowing smoke?

I don't see the point when they're paying half the tuition we have to pay. The 30% rebate is also a bit of a scam since it's 30% off the average tuition, not my own... so when I'm paying $10 000 a year for tuition, the govenment discounts 1200 not 3000.

[_Allan_]

I don't see the point when they're paying half the tuition we have to pay. The 30% rebate is also a bit of a scam since it's 30% off the average tuition, not my own... so when I'm paying $10 000 a year for tuition, the govenment discounts 1200 not 3000.

Be thankful you get it! I earned LESS than $10,000 last year, but as I haven't been in school since 2001, I was denied. I lived below poverty, I need it the most!

[Syne]

I was also denied and they took away my textbook grant. What McGuinty promised as tax spending turned out to just be a reshuffling, moving money away from non-traditional students who need it the most, to further entitlements to traditional students from rich families.

[nx6288]

I was also denied and they took away my textbook grant. What McGuinty promised as tax spending turned out to just be a reshuffling, moving money away from non-traditional students who need it the most, to further entitlements to traditional students from rich families.

i see what you did there :lol:

[Ascott]

I saw four people downtown yesterday camped out in front of the main branch of the Calgary Library in support, but no - I have no intention of joining.

[uber_shnitz]

I don't see why Ontario should "join" Quebec. I've only been studying in ON for a year, but I heard about the supposed "30% off" thing. If that's something Ontario students want to protest, by all means, they can, but I don't see how it can/should be linked to Quebec.

Having lived in both provinces (and visited Alberta), I get a feeling (this is just a feeling of course) that English Canada is more Capitalist and "American" than Quebec, which are more European/Socialist.

[norgos]

I don't see the point when they're paying half the tuition we have to pay.

Just because you choose to accept being in debt and paying insane tuition for your education doesn't mean we're willing to accept take it up our bums.

You should read up on the corruption that's happening in our government, with the universities [Concordia admins getting millions in severage packages over the past 7 years], etc.

People are angry and for good reason. But at this point, it's going beyond tuition with Bill 78 being passed. It's a power struggle.

I would imagine that most of your sources is through the English media which is mostly owned by Conservatives and paint the protest negatively. This tumblr translates a bunch of French media for those who cannot read in French - http://translatingtheprintempserable.tumblr.com/.

[uber_shnitz]

There's pros/cons to the entire debate. Yes, in retrospect 325$ a year isn't much, we'll end up under roughly 4k a year in tuition, which is still less than national average, however remember Quebec is taxed more than the average Canadian (they are the only province which claims an extra income tax to its citizens) so I don't think it's wrong for people who pay more taxes to expect more/better/cheaper services from government owned/subsidized services. The issue as NORGOS said is that there's lots of corruption in the government and lots of questionable decisions are being made so people are angry about that.

Bill 78 is just a horrible bill all around which doesn't really even work to stop the protests/riots so I don't see why it's there.

I think however that at the end of the day both parties need to just sit down and talk and actually make concessions. That's the issue, nobody is willing to make concessions. Some student groups will not budge on the hike and in some cases demand free tuition. The government on the other hand will not discuss tuition hikes as well so neither side is willing to compromise on the one issue that is key in all this.

[xserverfd]

lol @ Quebec. That is what happens when an area has too many hipsters.

[JuliTheNub]

You should read up on the corruption that's happening in our government, with the universities [Concordia admins getting millions in severage packages over the past 7 years], etc.
If there is corruption/waste, then the solution to your problem is not more government subsidy to keep tuition low.

Personally, I am against what the Quebec students are for. I do not believe that higher education is a right. I do not believe that freezing/lowering tuition rates is an efficient use of government funds.

[Marianne2007]

Hi Guys!

I agree with some of you. I am from Québec and I agree that our tuitions are way too low if you compare with the rest of Canada, so I am not against a sort of "adjustment" to the cost of living. I spent 8 years at school (3 years college, 3 years bachelor and 2 years master) on the Loans & Bursaries program and was in debt of 28k after those 8 years. It's low, especially if you compare to USA.

However, as someone said, Quebec is a socialist province, we pay way higher tax than you guys so this plays a role in that revolution. Also, someone is wrong saying that higher education is not a right. First, we are not just talking about "higher education" we also talk about college, which is a basic education. Second, education is valuable for a society, don't forget that. We are not a third world country, Canada is a rich and developed country for which access to education has played an important role. And when I say "access to education", it doesn't mean a "free access", it means low costs, as opposed to USA, where education is way too high. Same thing with health care.

Sorry guys for my spelling mistakes!

Marianne

[uber_shnitz]

If there is corruption/waste, then the solution to your problem is not more government subsidy to keep tuition low.

Personally, I am against what the Quebec students are for. I do not believe that higher education is a right. I do not believe that freezing/lowering tuition rates is an efficient use of government funds.

Actually yes and no. The issue students were initially having (which IMO was the message they should've kept exposing) was that Universities waste and mismanage a lot of money and don't actually NEED more money from student tuition fees. When the first "agreement" was signed by student association leaders in early May, one of the conditions was that the government put into place an independent committee(which included student reps) which would inspect, analyze and scrutinize third party spendings by Universities (which ironically DID include student association fees among other things like athletic fees, IT fees, daycare fees and whatnot) in order to counteract the increase. However, this was rejected by the student body as not all Universities charge the same overhead in "extra fees" so the decrease would not be proportional.

The other issue is that the government itself is mismanaging money. Yes, there's inflation no doubt about that, but don't go tell me you have no moeny to spend on something that IMO is as important as education and then turn around and tell me you're subsidizing a hockey stadium in Quebec City or adding speed cameras which were proved to be pretty ineffective. The government has an agenda and it's simply not being transparent about it, which is my personal issue on the matter. Tuition's been frozen for 40 years in Quebec. We've been in economic crisis since 2008. Why would the government (the same as in 2008) choose NOW to increase tuition? The reason most have speculated is that baby boomers in Quebec are really hitting the retirement and there's not enough people to replace them. More people into retirement = less taxes = less government budget. The government has decided to cut Uni subsidizing so it can keep and use the little tax revenue it still makes from baby boomers before they all retire.

Anyhow, this is all speculation, but the point is there IS a reason to be angry...just not the way those idgets are doing it.

[JuliTheNub]

However, this was rejected by the student body as not all Universities charge the same overhead in "extra fees" so the decrease would not be proportional.

That sounds like a very stupid reason for rejecting a very good idea. The decrease might not be proportional but unless there is gross mismanagement that is unfixed, the overhead difference should not be too significant.


The other issue is that the government itself is mismanaging money. Yes, there's inflation no doubt about that, but don't go tell me you have no moeny to spend on something that IMO is as important as education and then turn around and tell me you're subsidizing a hockey stadium in Quebec City or adding speed cameras which were proved to be pretty ineffective. The government has an agenda and it's simply not being transparent about it, which is my personal issue on the matter. Tuition's been frozen for 40 years in Quebec. We've been in economic crisis since 2008. Why would the government (the same as in 2008) choose NOW to increase tuition? The reason most have speculated is that baby boomers in Quebec are really hitting the retirement and there's not enough people to replace them. More people into retirement = less taxes = less government budget. The government has decided to cut Uni subsidizing so it can keep and use the little tax revenue it still makes from baby boomers before they all retire.

I would speculate that the government faces 2 choices:
Cut "welfare" for the young. (Subsidies for higher education)
Or cut welfare for the old. (Cut pensions/Unemployment benefits/etc)

The young are usually politically apathetic so their support base largely comprises of the older generations. Also, as the older generation tend to think that the younger generation is nothing but a bunch of lazy kids, it's easy to sell to their base a tuition increase. Indeed, judging by the behavior of some of the students on strike, it is quite unlikely that the older generation would support them now.

So of course the government would choose to cut tuition subsidies.

[uber_shnitz]

That sounds like a very stupid reason for rejecting a very good idea. The decrease might not be proportional but unless there is gross mismanagement that is unfixed, the overhead difference should not be too significant.
There were various other reasons for the reject once the full terms of the agreement were written down and yes there IS gross mismanagement, that's why the idea was initially brought up; however when you have University rectors and deans that compromise a larger % of the committee than student reps, do you think they'll vouch for saying their paycheques or severance packages are too high?


I would speculate that the government faces 2 choices:
Cut "welfare" for the young. (Subsidies for higher education)
Or cut welfare for the old. (Cut pensions/Unemployment benefits/etc)

The young are usually politically apathetic so their support base largely comprises of the older generations. Also, as the older generation tend to think that the younger generation is nothing but a bunch of lazy kids, it's easy to sell to their base a tuition increase. Indeed, judging by the behavior of some of the students on strike, it is quite unlikely that the older generation would support them now.

So of course the government would choose to cut tuition subsidies.
It's easy to pass off the tuition hike as "inflation" or "economic issues", I'm jsut saying they weren't transparent about it and the government failed to outline their position properly. This could've all been avoided had the government been more clear about their intentions. I don't agree wiht the protests, but I think both sides did not react properly and we ended up with this mess.

Also, you mention the government faces 2 choices, but in fact, the many projects they were planning could've been put off a few years if the government was really THAT short on money. People c;lamki "325$/year is nothing", well if it's nothing overall, why is the government bothering to cut there? there's probably bigger fish to cut than a measly 1625$ per Uni student head (which compromise only a small % of young people in the Province). Yes, the government should cut, no doubt about it, but I'm thinking there were smarter ways to do it to avoid the entire hassle that is now ensuing. Rule #1: don't underestimate people's stupidity.

I'm not supporting the strike (especially not their methods), only the moral ideal that there IS lots of mismanagement of the government and people who have the money. Canada always likes to complain about Quebec, yet Quebecois people do not even agree with their own government. Those "millions of transfer payments" Canada supposedly gives us never really reaches us: our health care sucks, our infrastructure sucks, yeah our education is cheap, but that's about it. Now we've been labelled as the most corrupt province in the country along with our other various happy nicknames so yeah :razz:

[norgos]

If there is corruption/waste, then the solution to your problem is not more government subsidy to keep tuition low..

Oh, so let's just take and accept the corruption and shoulder it onto the students and their parents?

Did you know Ontario gave us stimulus of around $350 mil for repairs on our infrastructure and most of that money is being pocketed? - http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/federal-stimulus-cash-went-to-firms-implicated-in-quebec-scandals/article2431702/

Concordia administrators getting insane severance packages - http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2012/03/13/19497476.html. In which later the government fines them $2million.

[imflying12]

Reducing tuition fees is fine but free education? No.

[norgos]

The young are usually politically apathetic so their support base largely comprises of the older generations.

Not in Quebec. Students in CEGEPs and unis are far more politically active than students in other provinces.



Also, as the older generation tend to think that the younger generation is nothing but a bunch of lazy kids.

Baby boomers had it easy and will be smooth sailing for them today when they retire. Not for the current generation and their future generations.




Indeed, judging by the behavior of some of the students on strike, it is quite unlikely that the older generation would support them now.


Comparing the number of people on strike vs the number of violent incidents, I would say that so far our protest has been quite peaceful. The media likes to paint the protest like as if it was G20 but it's not. There are more incidents of police brutality and unnecessarily hurting civilians, like the situation in which around 600 montrealers got arrested when they kettled the protesters in the park.

[divx]

There's pros/cons to the entire debate. Yes, in retrospect 325$ a year isn't much, we'll end up under roughly 4k a year in tuition, which is still less than national average, however remember Quebec is taxed more than the average Canadian (they are the only province which claims an extra income tax to its citizens) so I don't think it's wrong for people who pay more taxes to expect more/better/cheaper services from government owned/subsidized services. The issue as NORGOS said is that there's lots of corruption in the government and lots of questionable decisions are being made so people are angry about that.

Bill 78 is just a horrible bill all around which doesn't really even work to stop the protests/riots so I don't see why it's there.

I think however that at the end of the day both parties need to just sit down and talk and actually make concessions. That's the issue, nobody is willing to make concessions. Some student groups will not budge on the hike and in some cases demand free tuition. The government on the other hand will not discuss tuition hikes as well so neither side is willing to compromise on the one issue that is key in all this.

They may be taxed more, but they certainly don't tax enough for extra public spending, either they tax further or cut subsidies. The government shouldn't back down from this one, Quebec students can vote with their wallet and go elsewhere for schooling or vote down the government in the next election.

[divx]

Hi Guys!

I agree with some of you. I am from Québec and I agree that our tuitions are way too low if you compare with the rest of Canada, so I am not against a sort of "adjustment" to the cost of living. I spent 8 years at school (3 years college, 3 years bachelor and 2 years master) on the Loans & Bursaries program and was in debt of 28k after those 8 years. It's low, especially if you compare to USA.

However, as someone said, Quebec is a socialist province, we pay way higher tax than you guys so this plays a role in that revolution. Also, someone is wrong saying that higher education is not a right. First, we are not just talking about "higher education" we also talk about college, which is a basic education. Second, education is valuable for a society, don't forget that. We are not a third world country, Canada is a rich and developed country for which access to education has played an important role. And when I say "access to education", it doesn't mean a "free access", it means low costs, as opposed to USA, where education is way too high. Same thing with health care.

Sorry guys for my spelling mistakes!

Marianne

I acknowledge that I wasn't aware of the extra taxes before, but it doesn't change the fact Quebec uses more than their own tax base to fund their subsidies, last I checked Quebec received more money in transfer payment than all other provinces combined! AGAIN!

Please note primary education is defined as K12, thus college education counts as higher education. Education is indeed valuable, but that only goes as far as K12 education, which is the basic education everyone should have. Higher education is only for specific purpose, like I won't bother with another degree since I already have one. Higher education is where you branch out and walk your own path. Also, note by the time you take higher education you would be an adult unless you are a super genius which legally means you are on your own.

[uber_shnitz]

They may be taxed more, but they certainly don't tax enough for extra public spending, either they tax further or cut subsidies. The government shouldn't back down from this one, Quebec students can vote with their wallet and go elsewhere for schooling or vote down the government in the next election.
That's what critics are saying the government should've done(push the tuition hike as an issue for the elections later this year). While I don't supprot violent protests but the government is to blame for not doing anything and letting it escalate (and in some cases adding fuel to the fire).


I acknowledge that I wasn't aware of the extra taxes before, but it doesn't change the fact Quebec uses more than their own tax base to fund their subsidies, last I checked Quebec received more money in transfer payment than all other provinces combined! AGAIN!

Please note primary education is defined as K12, thus college education counts as higher education. Education is indeed valuable, but that only goes as far as K12 education, which is the basic education everyone should have. Higher education is only for specific purpose, like I won't bother with another degree since I already have one. Higher education is where you branch out and walk your own path. Also, note by the time you take higher education you would be an adult unless you are a super genius which legally means you are on your own.
You heard wrong on the transfer payments. Yes, Quebec gets a huge chunk ($10G per year IIRC) but it's nowhere near the other provinces combined.

And I reiterate, most of that money doesn't end up to the residents: our health care is subpar, and our roads are constantly crashing/falling apart. This protest isn't just about 325$ a year, it's about the government being incompetent and being unable to manage the money. Quebecois people get a bad rep because of our leaders. Most residents aren't aware of the transfer payments we receive since we never see improvement in our lifestyle. We're taxed to the ground (the most taxed Canadian is a middle class Quebecois in the Montreal area), we're constantly forced into language policies the majority don't want and we're bothered by an ideal that nobody cares about anymoer (aka Separatism).

If we pay more taxes, is it uinreasonable to expect more/cheaper services? I don't think so. That's why University tuition in Quebec costs more if you come from another province like Ontario (it's still less than international though), because as a Canadian, you only partially contribute to the University subsidies in Quebec (not paying provincial tax).

[divx]

That's what critics are saying the government should've done(push the tuition hike as an issue for the elections later this year). While I don't supprot violent protests but the government is to blame for not doing anything and letting it escalate (and in some cases adding fuel to the fire).


You heard wrong on the transfer payments. Yes, Quebec gets a huge chunk ($10G per year IIRC) but it's nowhere near the other provinces combined.

And I reiterate, most of that money doesn't end up to the residents: our health care is subpar, and our roads are constantly crashing/falling apart. This protest isn't just about 325$ a year, it's about the government being incompetent and being unable to manage the money. Quebecois people get a bad rep because of our leaders. Most residents aren't aware of the transfer payments we receive since we never see improvement in our lifestyle. We're taxed to the ground (the most taxed Canadian is a middle class Quebecois in the Montreal area), we're constantly forced into language policies the majority don't want and we're bothered by an ideal that nobody cares about anymoer (aka Separatism).

If we pay more taxes, is it uinreasonable to expect more/cheaper services? I don't think so. That's why University tuition in Quebec costs more if you come from another province like Ontario (it's still less than international though), because as a Canadian, you only partially contribute to the University subsidies in Quebec (not paying provincial tax).
Perhaps the government is incompetent, in which case why does the Quebeckers kept voting them? Vote someone else whose less incompetent can't be done?

[Marianne2007]

Please note primary education is defined as K12, thus college education counts as higher education. Education is indeed valuable, but that only goes as far as K12 education, which is the basic education everyone should have. Higher education is only for specific purpose, like I won't bother with another degree since I already have one.

Well, obvioulsy we do not share the same opinion regarding what "higher education" means. If you believe that Grade 12 is enough, I am glad that many people do not share your opinion... Can you imagine what kind of uneducated society we would have if everybody thinks as you? Honestly, I prefer not to think about that..

[wowwah]

go ahead, who cares, free Quebec, free Frenches

[uber_shnitz]

Perhaps the government is incompetent, in which case why does the Quebeckers kept voting them? Vote someone else whose less incompetent can't be done?

That's like saying "if the Americans don't like either the Democrats or the Republicans they can vote someone else".

The Liberals the lesser of evils that's the problem. The only other 2 parties that hold enough MPs in the province are Separatist parties so nobody wants to vote for them (ironically the Separatists are the most determined bunch despite being a minority). Well it takes lots of ambition to create a party big enough to govern a Province and unfortunatly, nobody is up to the task (and I'd rather people who aren't up to it not bother).

[divx]

Well, obvioulsy we do not share the same opinion regarding what "higher education" means. If you believe that Grade 12 is enough, I am glad that many people do not share your opinion... Can you imagine what kind of uneducated society we would have if everybody thinks as you? Honestly, I prefer not to think about that..

hmmm if everyone thinks like me then we will have a very educated society.

[norgos]

hmmm if everyone thinks like me then we will have a very educated society.

There is a place where people think that grade 12 is good enough.

Have you been to North Carolina?:)

[divx]

There is a place where people think that grade 12 is good enough.

Have you been to North Carolina?:)

it is good enough for basic education, if you want higher education, go for it, don't let minor details like money get in the way.

[_Allan_]

That's what critics are saying the government should've done(push the tuition hike as an issue for the elections later this year). While I don't supprot violent protests but the government is to blame for not doing anything and letting it escalate (and in some cases adding fuel to the fire).


You heard wrong on the transfer payments. Yes, Quebec gets a huge chunk ($10G per year IIRC) but it's nowhere near the other provinces combined.

And I reiterate, most of that money doesn't end up to the residents: our health care is subpar, and our roads are constantly crashing/falling apart. This protest isn't just about 325$ a year, it's about the government being incompetent and being unable to manage the money. Quebecois people get a bad rep because of our leaders. Most residents aren't aware of the transfer payments we receive since we never see improvement in our lifestyle. We're taxed to the ground (the most taxed Canadian is a middle class Quebecois in the Montreal area), we're constantly forced into language policies the majority don't want and we're bothered by an ideal that nobody cares about anymoer (aka Separatism).

If we pay more taxes, is it uinreasonable to expect more/cheaper services? I don't think so. That's why University tuition in Quebec costs more if you come from another province like Ontario (it's still less than international though), because as a Canadian, you only partially contribute to the University subsidies in Quebec (not paying provincial tax).



Quebec and Ontario will receive the most from equalization payments in the 2012-2013 year.[3]
However, per capita, PEI benefits the most. In the 2012-2013 year, the following provinces will receive equalization payments:[3]

Quebec ($7.391 billion)
Ontario ($3.261 billion)
Manitoba ($1.671 billion)
New Brunswick ($1.495 billion)
Nova Scotia ($1.268 billion)
Prince Edward Island ($337 million)

ONT+MB+NB+NS+PEI = $8.032b, take away PEI, and it's $7.695b, or nearly equal. Quebec gets more than it deserves, because theiy whine, complain, b&tch and moan so much about being 'so poor'.

[JuliTheNub]

Oh, so let's just take and accept the corruption and shoulder it onto the students and their parents?
I'm afraid you misunderstood me.

If corruption is the problem, the solution is tackling corruption. Not continued/increased tuition subsidies. That does not address the problem.


Baby boomers had it easy and will be smooth sailing for them today when they retire. Not for the current generation and their future generations.

Yeah they wouldn't understand what we have to put up with. But I don't think the protests are making them understand. It's why the protest is doomed imo.

[uber_shnitz]

Quebec and Ontario will receive the most from equalization payments in the 2012-2013 year.[3]
However, per capita, PEI benefits the most. In the 2012-2013 year, the following provinces will receive equalization payments:[3]

Quebec ($7.391 billion)
Ontario ($3.261 billion)
Manitoba ($1.671 billion)
New Brunswick ($1.495 billion)
Nova Scotia ($1.268 billion)
Prince Edward Island ($337 million)

ONT+MB+NB+NS+PEI = $8.032b, take away PEI, and it's $7.695b, or nearly equal. Quebec gets more than it deserves, because theiy whine, complain, b&tch and moan so much about being 'so poor'.

Ah okies thanks, I haven't looked at the numbers recently, I just remember it being in the 10 billion range last time I checked.

Well I still don't see why the Federal government succumbs to Quebec's "whining". I've heard many people ask the Federal to just vote whether Quebec should stay or go and then give them say a year for their residents to move out if they want to, then they're on their own and have to reimburse their debts themselves. I don't see why the Federal keeps putting up with it. Is Quebec valuable to Canada in any way? I mean, they speak another language, have a completely other ideology (very socialistic way of thinking) and way of doing things. Other than the fact that they have a large chunk of the population, a select few useful companies and maybe Montreal (which houses lots of companies and brings lots of tourism), what's so alluring about keeping them in the country if most Canadians dislike them?

[boyohboy]

It's probably hard to predict how splitting up would affect the country's economy & stability. And also the Atlantic provinces would be separated too, which could be a big problem.


Back to the original question... definitely a big NO for me. If the students were protesting about corrupted government, fine. But protesting about the cheapest tuition in the country? How many years of tuition freeze do they want?

And any tiny bit of sympathy to these protesting students and student leaders was all gone the moment they started vandalizing, taunting other non-protesting students who want to go to classes.

[norgos]

It's probably hard to predict how splitting up would affect the country's economy & stability. And also the Atlantic provinces would be separated too, which could be a big problem.


Back to the original question... definitely a big NO for me. If the students were protesting about corrupted government, fine. But protesting about the cheapest tuition in the country? How many years of tuition freeze do they want?

And any tiny bit of sympathy to these protesting students and student leaders was all gone the moment they started vandalizing, taunting other non-protesting students who want to go to classes.

Please read through the thread before engaging in discussion.

[_Allan_]

I said this on the OT thread about PQ separatist thread: allow the to separate. Canada keeps ALL land 20km from the ON boarder and St Lawrence. The French can move north and inland, around Hudson's Bay etc. Canada also keeps ALL of Montreal, and its suburbs.

Canada can also be "nice" and only require 3 years of equalization payments be returned. New Quebecois residents would need to get VISAs to visit anywhere in Canada.

[uber_shnitz]

I said this on the OT thread about PQ separatist thread: allow the to separate. Canada keeps ALL land 20km from the ON boarder and St Lawrence. The French can move north and inland, around Hudson's Bay etc. Canada also keeps ALL of Montreal, and its suburbs.

Canada can also be "nice" and only require 3 years of equalization payments be returned. New Quebecois residents would need to get VISAs to visit anywhere in Canada.
Hmm interesting plan...what about French native speakers who want to stay in Canada? Not all French speakers are Separatists. With Quebec "gone", would Canada even really uphold French as one of its national languages given that only New Brunswick really speaks French often enough to warrant saying they're bilingual other than Quebec?

I mean, like it or not, other people recognize Canada for French despite a large majority not speaking it fluently. I've been ot the US and Asia, and when I say I'm from Canada (note I never mentino Quebec), they all "do you speak French?" so seems tehre's some recognition of being the only North American country with the language.

[Marianne2007]

Hmm interesting plan...what about French native speakers who want to stay in Canada? Not all French speakers are Separatists. With Quebec "gone", would Canada even really uphold French as one of its national languages given that only New Brunswick really speaks French often enough to warrant saying they're bilingual other than Quebec?

I mean, like it or not, other people recognize Canada for French despite a large majority not speaking it fluently. I've been ot the US and Asia, and when I say I'm from Canada (note I never mentino Quebec), they all "do you speak French?" so seems tehre's some recognition of being the only North American country with the language.

You're right! I would say that times have changed and that idea (separation) is no longer as popular as in 1995. Moreover, the speech from politicians about separation has slowed down a bit during the last couple years; it's a good thing... I am Canadian first and Quebecer second. I love my country and I love the English language. However, I understand the necessity to protect the French as we are only a couple millions speaking that language in all North America.

As you said, NB is bilingual but Ontario as well. I have been in Ontario many times, in many cities (small and big) and even though I was speaking to them in English, they talked to me in French, with a beautiful smile, really happy to practice their French!!!

We live in an amazing country!

[uber_shnitz]

I agree I'm studying in Ontario and some people do like to speak French and I'm always pleseantly surprised. I think the issue of French vs Englsih really dates back to the establishment of Canada back when the US conquered us(under the British banner) and the segregation began. Snice then, it's been hard to really mend a gap that's been present since the dawn of the country. I don't blame people in Western provinces for ignoring/thinking little of a language they're not exposed to at all; it's an issue that dates back to the beginning of Canada like I said. Had both "cultures" (French and British) mingled more and not just English folk that followed the expansion to the West, we'd have a truly more bilingual country that understands each other, not 2 segregated people who know nothing of one another.

[_Allan_]

Hmm interesting plan...what about French native speakers who want to stay in Canada? Not all French speakers are Separatists. With Quebec "gone", would Canada even really uphold French as one of its national languages given that only New Brunswick really speaks French often enough to warrant saying they're bilingual other than Quebec?

I mean, like it or not, other people recognize Canada for French despite a large majority not speaking it fluently. I've been ot the US and Asia, and when I say I'm from Canada (note I never mentino Quebec), they all "do you speak French?" so seems tehre's some recognition of being the only North American country with the language.

IF they choose to stay in the new part of Ontario created by the 'separation' than they remain Canadian (and Ontarian born) Citizens. Anyone who moves to New Quebec, would lose Canadian Citizenship, and could reapply IF they were permitted to come to the country.

My idea provides for retaining full land access (and full legal ownership of The St. Lawrence) to Canada, and thus allows us to continue to drive (or take a train) to the Maritime provinces.

[divx]

well rfd has spoken, looks like the majority don't support quebec.

[uber_shnitz]

IF they choose to stay in the new part of Ontario created by the 'separation' than they remain Canadian (and Ontarian born) Citizens. Anyone who moves to New Quebec, would lose Canadian Citizenship, and could reapply IF they were permitted to come to the country.

My idea provides for retaining full land access (and full legal ownership of The St. Lawrence) to Canada, and thus allows us to continue to drive (or take a train) to the Maritime provinces.

I was more stating the issue of language which is one of the sore points between Quebec and Canada. I mean, if "New Ontario" (the part of Quebec that gets integrated into Ontario) is created, will they have to re-convert everything to English only (ex: most of the signage either French only or bilingual with an emphasis on the French portion due to Bill 101 in Quebec) or would Canada maintain its legal status that it's officially a bilingual country (and let "New Ontario" keep all its bilingual/French signs)? Would the Ontario government pay for the required changes to English if it wanted them? We have a massive number of signs in the Montreal/Quebec city area alone.

Also, what about businesses? Some businesses changed names when entering or exiting Quebec. For example, Mac's is originally known as Couche-tard in Quebec where it started. Shopper's is Pharmaprix. Sleep Country is Dormez-vous and so on and so forth. Also note alcohol sales are far more restricted in Ontario than Quebec (where basically every store that sells food almost has alcohol). Would the government change their legislation or force every grocery store chain and corner store?

What about French school establishments? Would non-State French Universities (such as University of Montreal, University of Laval) be allowed to stay and continue their practices? What about CEGEPs? Most CEGEPs are concentrated in the Montreal area and they're basicalyl a school system the rest of Canada doesn't have. Would "Ontario/Canada" rehaul the education system and pay for it?

I mean, it's a nice plan in theory, but Quebec is very different from Ontario (more so than people realize) and if Canada insisted on keeping part of the province (the most populous part no less), it'd still cost them a lot of time and resources to convert everything to their "way".

[_Allan_]

I was more stating the issue of language which is one of the sore points between Quebec and Canada. I mean, if "New Ontario" (the part of Quebec that gets integrated into Ontario) is created, will they have to re-convert everything to English only (ex: most of the signage either French only or bilingual with an emphasis on the French portion due to Bill 101 in Quebec) or would Canada maintain its legal status that it's officially a bilingual country (and let "New Ontario" keep all its bilingual/French signs)? Would the Ontario government pay for the required changes to English if it wanted them? We have a massive number of signs in the Montreal/Quebec city area alone.

Also, what about businesses? Some businesses changed names when entering or exiting Quebec. For example, Mac's is originally known as Couche-tard in Quebec where it started. Shopper's is Pharmaprix. Sleep Country is Dormez-vous and so on and so forth. Also note alcohol sales are far more restricted in Ontario than Quebec (where basically every store that sells food almost has alcohol). Would the government change their legislation or force every grocery store chain and corner store?

What about French school establishments? Would non-State French Universities (such as University of Montreal, University of Laval) be allowed to stay and continue their practices? What about CEGEPs? Most CEGEPs are concentrated in the Montreal area and they're basicalyl a school system the rest of Canada doesn't have. Would "Ontario/Canada" rehaul the education system and pay for it?

I mean, it's a nice plan in theory, but Quebec is very different from Ontario (more so than people realize) and if Canada insisted on keeping part of the province (the most populous part no less), it'd still cost them a lot of time and resources to convert everything to their "way".

I'm just a basic dreamer man ... I'll leave the heavy stuff for the people who know (or pretend to...) more than I do!

[uber_shnitz]

Well yeah no worries :lol:, but it's just an example saying it's easy to jump to conclusions and offer "solutions" without having analyzed the problem is all I'm saying ;)

[CSK'sMom]

:!: Attn All... Politics and separation talk has no place in this thread. Please discuss the topic of Ont. students joining in with the Quebec student protests but keep the discussion to the relevant issues pertaining to students. Any further political posts will be deleted and repeat offenders will get infractions and bans handed out. As per the RFD Community Policies, politics is forbidden. :!:

[MoxMonkey]

:!: Attn All... Politics and separation talk has no place in this thread. Please discuss the topic of Ont. students joining in with the Quebec student protests but keep the discussion to the relevant issues pertaining to students. Any further political posts will be deleted and repeat offenders will get infractions and bans handed out. As per the RFD Community Policies, politics is forbidden. :!:

Wait...you expect people to discuss a political issue without mentioning politics?

[verano888]

these students are sick. they are for nazism and communism.

http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/blogs-prod-photos/1/b/8/0/9/1b809cd451688e34c528ebe6cff780dc.jpg?stmp=13394505 54

http://blogs.canoe.ca/lilleyspad/general/pictures-of-the-montreal-student-protests-are-worth-a-few-thousand-words/