How easy is it to lay Tiles?

[toopence]

I'll be looking to attempt tiling our en-suite bathroom and the 2nd bathroom that both have linoleum right now.

I like the look of those rectangular shaped 12x24 big tiles. Also once the linoleum is off, what is the best material to use for an underlay? I have seen Mike Holmes use that "orange" material, is that my best bet in reducing chances of an error?

Pls advise with your recommendations, products, do and don'ts

cheers

[Maymybonneliveforever]

If you're serious about instaling the tile yourself I would suggest you join the John Bridge forum as there are hundreds of pro's that can walk you through finding out your defletion rate, choosing the right substrate, including the uncoupling waterproof orange stuff you're talking about. They will also help you elimate lippage as well as tricks in laying your larger size tile and can even help you in choosing the right grout including epoxy grout.

To answer your first question re what's the best material, my first question would be, what's your deflection rate? In order to give you a proper and educated answer we would need much more information than you've given, that's why I suggestion joining JB Forum.

Also be prepared for members chiming in and suggesting just remove the linoleum, screw down the subfloor and slap down 1/2" cement board with thinset.

[toopence]

Thanks.....you've used a whole lot of jargon that doesn't mean anything to me :-)

All I want to do is laydown tile in this 5yr old home. I am talking a normal bathroom size floor

[don242]

It is not very difficult. Not very enjoyable, but not difficult.

Be sure the floor is level, if not level it off first. Ensure the sub-floor is sufficient. Another layer of plywood may be sufficient. We didn't use any special underlay when I have done the job in the past but we were doing a kitchen. For a bathroom it is probably a good idea. The important thing is to ensure the adhesive contacts the whole tile. So if you put the adhesive down and then put the tile on, pull the tile up and you should see the adhesive cover the entire tile, no big spaces. If there are spaces, it is either due to an uneven floor or a little more practice with the trowel to ensure the grooves are deep enough in the adhesive.

If you are unsure, you can apply the adhesive in a thin layer on the floor and then apply to the back of the tile using the notched trowel and then put it down on the floor. This way you know the entire tile is covered. However, this method is messier and more time consuming.

To cut tiles you need a wet saw, or a grinder with a cutting wheel. The grinder works well as long as the tiles are thick enough (which most floor tiles are). Straight cuts are simple, if you need any cuts that are not straight (eg. to go around a vent), then the easiest thing to do is bring it to the store and pay them for the cut. If you want to attempt the difficult cuts yourself, then a wet saw is needed.

[hitman_24]

Thanks.....you've used a whole lot of jargon that doesn't mean anything to me :-)

All I want to do is laydown tile in this 5yr old home. I am talking a normal bathroom size floor

Based on your Lack of knowledge, I'm willing to bet that you don't have a tile saw etc.

To answer YOUR question based on your posts I would say it won't be EASY

It's easy if you know what you are doing and have the tools and experience to do the job, and it sounds like you dont

[toopence]

Based on your Lack of knowledge, I'm willing to bet that you don't have a tile saw etc.

To answer YOUR question based on your posts I would say it won't be EASY

It's easy if you know what you are doing and have the tools and experience to do the job, and it sounds like you dont

OK...which is why I came here

[hitman_24]

http://www.homedepot.ca/workshops/install-ceramic-tile

I wasn't trying to be rude or anything, but you have to educate yourself, because that jargon does and should mean something to you if you plan on doing tile Properly yourself
Too many people here expect to be spoon fed

[Maymybonneliveforever]

toopence

You asked "How easy is it to lay Tiles?"that depends on your skill level, how much you understand the jargon, and how long you want your diy tile installation to last.

I gave you the best advice I could by joining the JB forum since most members are educated on the lastest technology on how to install floor tile the proper way. You received advice such as "Ensure the sub-floor is sufficient. Another layer of plywood may be sufficient.", that refers to defection rate which is the measurement of how strong your subfloor is and how much it will flex based on the thickness of your existing floor, joists and width between joists. Simply suggesting adding another layer of plywood is a bit premature since you have no reference point to start with.

I'm a bit concerned you're not going to get the best advice on this forum since there are many diyer that aren't educated enough to give you sound advice. They will claim there tile installation is perfect and give you suggestions based on there experience but your subfloor, size of tile, thinest brand, mix, thinset trowel etc, maybe different so you're not comparing apples to apples installation procedures.

Hitman suggested Home Depot seminars, try them as they sell schluter, provamats etc, which will aid in giving you a sound floor, or again join the JB forum and ask the pro's since they're all on the same page.

Hitman24, that's a great suggestion and deserves a "thanks" by me.

[don242]

You received advice such as "Ensure the sub-floor is sufficient. Another layer of plywood may be sufficient.", that refers to defection rate which is the measurement of how strong your subfloor is and how much it will flex based on the thickness of your existing floor, joists and width between joists. Simply suggesting adding another layer of plywood is a bit premature since you have no reference point to start with.


Of course simply adding another layer of plywood may be a bit premature. Nowhere did I suggest that it was definitely needed. The general advice was to make sure that you don't ignore the subfloor and learn what requirements may be needed to strengthen it if needed. There are many things to consider and as you mentioned the deflection rate is important. There are factors suck as floor width, space between joists, type of sub-floor already present. Generally they suggest 1.25" thick subfloor of plywood, of course in most new homes you will be lucky to find a subfloor that thick underneath tile, but if you are going to do it yourself, then you may as well do it right.

I do agree, the advice on this forum is not always correct, but it is a good place to get pointed in the right direction. The Home Depot course is fine, though I found it lacking in some areas as they try to push everything under the sun into the project. The hands on practice though is great and lets you try without wasting your own supplies.

[t3359]

I find tiling pretty enjoyable :)... If you're going to get into DIYing, I'd recommend the Home Depot 1-2-3 book... It's pretty good and include a lot of photos.

Consider putting in floor screws to stop any squeaks, and look into subfloors such as cement backer boards... I like that stuff - makes it a lot easier... I haven't tried the schlutter stuff that everyone talks about, but it sounds easy.

Good luck...
bjl

[goofball]

Tiling itself is not hard. A bit tedious and amazingly time consuming but not hard
The biggest part of this job is the prep. Ensuring that the subfloor is strong and as mentioned, checking the deflection rate.
If you do decide to lay right over plywood (not something that I would recommend), make sure you get the proper thinset. I'd recommend using a proper cement board and then if you really want to do it well, get some uncoupling membrane.
If you decide to ignore these things, your floor may look great once down but may not last long before you see grout and tile cracks. It doesn't take long for these to appear.

[toopence]

I find tiling pretty enjoyable :)... If you're going to get into DIYing, I'd recommend the Home Depot 1-2-3 book... It's pretty good and include a lot of photos.

Consider putting in floor screws to stop any squeaks, and look into subfloors such as cement backer boards... I like that stuff - makes it a lot easier... I haven't tried the schlutter stuff that everyone talks about, but it sounds easy.

Good luck...
bjl

Thanks for that really appreciate it...I do have that book, and I'll take the subfloor tips into consideration

[PhuFighter]

when I did my kitchen and foyer floor last year, it was pretty much 3-4 months reading and prepping. I don't think I saved money at all, but I don't think I spent more. And I did a lot of things that some contractors I know think I shouldn't have done - like drive done a tonne of screws to resecure the planks to the joists, and then laying down 3/4" plywood and screwing them down every 4" (they felt that it was too many screws)..and then the ditra, and then the tiles.

Buying tools was the largest cost that I didn't factor in. And, yes, please read the john bridges forum. Calculating deflection and sorting out how tiles are labelled certainly helps :)

[brunes]

IMO tiling is one of the easiest home improvement jobs you can do. It is a lot of work but the work itself is pretty damn simple. I also think though, that it is one where you get the least return on sweat equity because the material cost is a very large portion of the job cost, and you will take longer than a good tile crew and the work is very laborious.

[toopence]

Here is the kind am looking to do or have done in the bathrooms


http://photosrv.filogixdms.com/photosrv/KAON/l/1251696b.jpg

[Schlampah]

i am by no means an expert.. but it is quite easy.. my 3 top tips:

1) knee pads - wear em!

2) Spacers - use them

3) Pre-cut all your tiles and physically lay them out on the floor to make sure they fit. Then remove them in order and you can mix your thinset without stressing that you will have to start frigging around with cutting the tiles to fit all of a sudden.

4) get a good cutter! I have done a couple floors with a crappy basic cutter and a crappy tile nipper. its stressful and you will get crap cuts, chipping, and the job won't look as good as it could.

[peth]

Lots of great points here, I will echo that surface prep and layout dry run are key. To the OP I also started my first ever tile job with 12x24 tiles, in retrospect it was a hard one to learn on. Because the tiles are so big any surface that is out of level is magnified, especially from tile to tile.

[Maymybonneliveforever]

In my opinion the most important part of installing tile is the base, if not done properly it simply won't last, although it may take years. Next is the way you apply the thin set and bond it to the tile, once you've got the hang of that, it's a matter of making sure all your lines are straight and ensure there is equal spacing. Once that's under control, it's going to be a bit more difficult not to have lippage. Lippage is caused when tiles aren't perfectly level between one tile to the other, all the while ensuring you don't get thin set between the tiles since that's where grout is supposed to be. As a general rule, the larger the tile the harder they are to install. When all the full size tiles are installed then comes the cutting of tile for the edges, that's not difficult if you have the right tool. In the end grouting is fairly easy and if it's epoxy grout, that just take a couple extra steps. Keep in mind there is much more to it then I've mentioned but I've only mentioned the main points.

Now I've seen homeowners install their own tile and comment on how good a job they've done yet I've seen members complain about far better tiling jobs and wanting it torn up when a pro does it, so it boils down to how fussy you are.

Me, I try to do as good if not better than a pro, so it would really bother me.

[StonePort]

There are a couple of factors that can affect "How easy is it to lay Tiles?"

First, the size of the tile plays a big part in the level of difficulty. If you are installing a 12"x12" tile versus a 24"x24" tile, the tile job will be significantly easier. Generally speaking, the smaller the tile is, the easier it is to install.

Secondly, the larger the grout space then the easier it is to install a tile. Large grout spaces between tiles helps in the installation, since it is more forgiving in trying to maintain some level from tile to tile. The tighter the grout space is, the more work there is to make sure that each tile is level to the next.

Lastly, the level of your floor plays a part in determining how easy an installation of tile is. If your floor has many dips and lifts as you work your way from one end of a room to another, then you job is going to get a lot harder. You will need to spend more time on floor preparation than tile installation if this is the case. Generally speaking, new home construction over the last 10 years does produce floors that are pretty level and sound, and if you use a smaller sized tile with a larger grout space than the installation should go pretty well.

[Therion]

You really should find someone to learn this from. I've done around 5 tile jobs in our two houses over the last 5 years, and the large tiles are hard to work with, because there is little room for error. A kitchen backsplash or something like that would be the best place to start, just to get the idea of how things go. The Ditra (orange stuff) is great for floors. It's made of two layers that move independently of each other and prevent stresses and movement from the floor joists travelling to the tiles and cracking them, the danger of which can be quite high in older houses and large tiles.

[Mars2012]

My husband and I tiled our downstairs bathroom and hall. It was set into concrete, and we chose to put in the in-floor heating system as well. The results were quite good, my only advice would be to not do this alone...I ended up being a better judge of tile placement and fit than my husband. Make sure you do a good job of cleaning up any adhesive around the tiles prior to putting in the grout, they don't blend well together.

[Mr Nobody]

My 2c:

1. First tile job, I would not attempt 12x24. Heck, first tile job should be backsplash and not floor tiles.
2. Floor needs to be flat, not level. Level is for aesthetics. Flat or not affects the difficulty or feasibility of tile laying.
3. Laying down a tile is easy, but the entire concept of tiling properly is not. Tiling is one of the most technical DIY, with a lot of planning, surface prep and techniques, etc that need to be learnt. On top of that, you see all the imperfections of a crummy job and there's no do-over. Install a faucet wrong, just unbolt it and adjust. Can't do that with tiles.
4. Good to see HomeDepot is instructing on backerboard. When I went to see one of those 10 years ago, the guy was showing how to use metal lathe. That being said, forget backerboard, use a Ditra or similar. So much lighter and easier, not to mention its true selling point benefits!
5. Do all the full tiles first and come back when its set to do all the cut pieces. A lot easier and faster.
6. Don't force a thin grout line on tiles that are signficantly imperfect in size. You will never get it to look right.
7. Dry layout everything to visualize what it will look like and what kind of cuts you will be dealing with. Of course use chalk lines when installing.
8. People will disagree on method of installation, and you'll always have anecdotal examples of good results even if the concensus is that the technique in question is not proper.
9. True, someone can look at a tile job and think its great while other's can see the faults in it. I can look at a tile job and see that one grout line that's just a hair too thin or a hair too thick and it bothers me. Or that one corner on a tile that is sticking up just a hair. My own work included.

[t3359]

5. Do all the full tiles first and come back when its set to do all the cut pieces. A lot easier and faster.

I always do this, but ran into problems using really cheap tile that had noticeable variations in tile size and we were using 1/4" spacers. Luckily these tiles ended up under counters and I don't have to look at them any more.


9. True, someone can look at a tile job and think its great while other's can see the faults in it. I can look at a tile job and see that one grout line that's just a hair too thin or a hair too thick and it bothers me. Or that one corner on a tile that is sticking up just a hair. My own work included.

Yup, I can tell you everything that is wrong with the jobs that I did at my place, but no one else noticed. I just decided to stop looking :)

bjl