Struggle for a entry job (in banks)

[JustMan]

Hi everyone,

Just want to share my delimma, problems, sharing whatever. I am currently a ongoing 4th year student in UTSC BBA finance major, i've been looking for a job earlier this year but unfortunately no luck. As I'm entering my final year of uni, I am beginning to feel the pressure of graduating with no job security. I am not aiming for something high, just entry level like teller, intern anything at any financial institute/banks. To be honest i dont have any relevant experience which does not put me at an advantage hand at all. I've recently thought able tackling into every branch and giving them my resume. Anyone have any advice to give to me? What first step i should make? I really don't want to be the guy who graduates and have no direction. thanks :)

[rapashoo]

Hey,

You have such a great degree :) How's your GPA so far? Have you asked someone to review your resume?

Summer positions have already started for most of places so you are bit late...I think. But keep lookin' cuz you never know.

[mastercool]

Forget office work. Pick up a trade.

Move to Alberta. Drive Truck. Make $100K.

[spike1128]

No experience = no job. Sorry OP, you are like so late to the party. The cream of the crop classmates already landed jobs as part time or intern by now. When they graduate, they will already had jobs lined up for them.

[Tonberry]

Productive things you can do at the moment:

1) Create LinkedIn full profile + Join many and many groups

2) Call/email people

[boredsilly]

wait, you're 'entering' your final year so you are graduating next year right?

[keano]

Hi everyone,

Just want to share my delimma, problems, sharing whatever. I am currently a ongoing 4th year student in UTSC BBA finance major, i've been looking for a job earlier this year but unfortunately no luck. As I'm entering my final year of uni, I am beginning to feel the pressure of graduating with no job security. I am not aiming for something high, just entry level like teller, intern anything at any financial institute/banks. To be honest i dont have any relevant experience which does not put me at an advantage hand at all. I've recently thought able tackling into every branch and giving them my resume. Anyone have any advice to give to me? What first step i should make? I really don't want to be the guy who graduates and have no direction. thanks :)

You shouldnt be wasting your time with garbage jobs like teller when you havent even graduated yet. Try and find a finance intern and go from there. Id only apply to a teller as a last resort.

[b166er1337]

No experience = no job. Sorry OP, you are like so late to the party. The cream of the crop classmates already landed jobs as part time or intern by now. When they graduate, they will already had jobs lined up for them.

LOL. I wonder how anyone gets any job in the first place.

[starbright]

LOL. I wonder how anyone gets any job in the first place.

I call it the nepotism Ponzi scheme.

In first or second year of university, you need a relative or colleague of a relative to place you in a paper shuffling position at Big Company.

In third year, the name brand of Big Company gets you a position with Bigger Company.

In fourth year, your third year internship lands you a full time gig with either Bigger Company or Bigger Company's Competitor. Notice how no one can claim nepotism at this point because "they only got them their first job - they did it all themselves after that!"

A student with no connections may be able to make it, but they have to start lower and therefore face a longer trudge with more steps towards the same salary and prestige. IE. they may be able to land a contract position with Big Company after graduating, and effectively be 4 years behind the first student in terms of their career.

[GoHabsGo08]

Check out the thread I just posted, if you're interested let me know.

[sirex]

There is seriously a thread like this every single week. EVERY WEEK DUDE. EVERY WEEK.

A TELLER POSITION IS NOT AN ENTRY LEVEL JOB AT THE BANK. IT's a CUSTOMER SERVICE JOB, like working at MCDONALDS. Do not aim for the teller position. Don't do it. You're better off shooting your self. Seriously. You'll want to after a few months, lol.

[spike1128]

There is seriously a thread like this every single week. EVERY WEEK DUDE. EVERY WEEK.

A TELLER POSITION IS NOT AN ENTRY LEVEL JOB AT THE BANK. IT's a CUSTOMER SERVICE JOB, like working at MCDONALDS. Do not aim for the teller position. Don't do it. You're better off shooting your self. Seriously. You'll want to after a few months, lol.

Why bother talking and asking them not to write about teller positions? You know there will be other ones being written. If you can find all the threads in regards to teller questions, I am sure you will find at least 100 threads. :D

[Martin_11]

OP, have you thought about post grad programs at college ? I know Humber offers some decent programs in business, and these programs offer placements as well I think. You could use these placements to network and get the start in your industry that you badly need. Time spent in this program can also equate to more time for you to network, and ofcourse, your having the extra credentials would help you stand out from others. Also, I heard from people that UofT has some event in the fall where Loblaws offers internship opportunities for finance majors ? I am not 100 % sure on that, but you should ask your career center about this.

[UrbanPoet]

There is seriously a thread like this every single week. EVERY WEEK DUDE. EVERY WEEK.

A TELLER POSITION IS NOT AN ENTRY LEVEL JOB AT THE BANK. IT's a CUSTOMER SERVICE JOB, like working at MCDONALDS. Do not aim for the teller position. Don't do it. You're better off shooting your self. Seriously. You'll want to after a few months, lol.

Thats not entirely true.
I've seen tellers move up into positions in head office.. $60-$80k/yr positions.
But they had the training and education to back it up. So in a case like the OP... Going for an entry level teller job isn't all that bad of a career move provided they have the drive to move up.

And yes... I've seen p/t tellers I personally know move from teller position to a f/t back office position as an analyst. On the other hand... She was a 4th year student and spent her entire university career working as a p/t teller on the side.

[JustMan]

Hey everyone, thank you for your response, really appreciate the thoughtfulness of some these comments. As some of you has mention about the entry level. I know I am late to the game, I've been applying consistently throughout the year for any relevant position to my degree. I know some of you may say entry level is for people in college, but at my stage getting in is my biggest problem. So i believe entry level will be a good start for me to start gaining some relevant experience and working my way up. Nonetheless, I appreciate everyone's comment and thank you. :)

[aricebox]

Hey everyone, thank you for your response, really appreciate the thoughtfulness of some these comments. As some of you has mention about the entry level. I know I am late to the game, I've been applying consistently throughout the year for any relevant position to my degree. I know some of you may say entry level is for people in college, but at my stage getting in is my biggest problem. So i believe entry level will be a good start for me to start gaining some relevant experience and working my way up. Nonetheless, I appreciate everyone's comment and thank you. :)

Thought I'd give my 2 cents as well.

OP, I was pretty much in the same boat as you. I was "late to the game" too. I was going into my final year of BBA (finance) with no connections within the financial industry as well as no relevant experience (however i DID work a lot during school and summers in sales, HR, etc. just not finance). During my final year I did my best to find p/t internships/jobs as well as participate in a number of business case competitions. As a result, I was able to find an internship (during school) working at a small investments firm doing research and a bit of financial modeling as well as winning first place at one of the case competitions I joined.

I've just recently finished my final exams (a little over a month ago) and I've been fortunate to have had interviews with a handful of companies (I am currently waiting to hear back).

I just want to say that all hope is definitely not lost. Keep your head up high and make sure to use your final year at University to your advantage (apply early, if it's not too late try to get an exec position in your finance club, join competitions, network at events, etc.)

Best of luck. You can PM me if you have any additional questions.

[zaidyboy]

Use this website and follow them on twitter.

www.talentegg.ca

On a sidenote, NETWORKING IS KEY!

[Rainne]

I call it the nepotism Ponzi scheme.

In first or second year of university, you need a relative or colleague of a relative to place you in a paper shuffling position at Big Company.

In third year, the name brand of Big Company gets you a position with Bigger Company.

In fourth year, your third year internship lands you a full time gig with either Bigger Company or Bigger Company's Competitor. Notice how no one can claim nepotism at this point because "they only got them their first job - they did it all themselves after that!"

A student with no connections may be able to make it, but they have to start lower and therefore face a longer trudge with more steps towards the same salary and prestige. IE. they may be able to land a contract position with Big Company after graduating, and effectively be 4 years behind the first student in terms of their career.

LOL

Sadly, this is exactly how it works

[IB14]

I call it the nepotism Ponzi scheme.

In first or second year of university, you need a relative or colleague of a relative to place you in a paper shuffling position at Big Company.

In third year, the name brand of Big Company gets you a position with Bigger Company.

In fourth year, your third year internship lands you a full time gig with either Bigger Company or Bigger Company's Competitor. Notice how no one can claim nepotism at this point because "they only got them their first job - they did it all themselves after that!"

A student with no connections may be able to make it, but they have to start lower and therefore face a longer trudge with more steps towards the same salary and prestige. IE. they may be able to land a contract position with Big Company after graduating, and effectively be 4 years behind the first student in terms of their career.

You couldn't be any wronger. If you are majoring in business at a respectable school (like UofT), it is very easy to find jobs, especially for the summer after 3rd year. Anybody, i mean ANYBODY can get a paper pushing job in 1st or 2nd year, IF they choose to work unpaid. Sure, the kid with connection will be $8000 richer than you at the end of the summer, but you will be in the same competitive position to pursue other jobs.

Also, campus recruiting nowadays isn't strictly about GPAs. Relevant extracurricular activities and leadership experience set the tone. I actually got my first office job because of my experience working as a waiter, because of the people skills I learned from the job (evident from my above-average tip earning power).

At the end of the day, getting employed is mostly about competence.

[BananaHunter]

You couldn't be any wronger. If you are majoring in business at a respectable school (like UofT), it is very easy to find jobs, especially for the summer after 3rd year. Anybody, i mean ANYBODY can get a paper pushing job in 1st or 2nd year, IF they choose to work unpaid. Sure, the kid with connection will be $8000 richer than you at the end of the summer, but you will be in the same competitive position to pursue other jobs.

Also, campus recruiting nowadays isn't strictly about GPAs. Relevant extracurricular activities and leadership experience set the tone. I actually got my first office job because of my experience working as a waiter, because of the people skills I learned from the job (evident from my above-average tip earning power).

At the end of the day, getting employed is mostly about competence.

Actually I think you are wrong. Employers nowadays care very little what school you are from. I was from UofT and getting that first job was a matter of luck. In all my interviews, nobody really cared that I went to UofT. I think you probably graduated a few years ago. The graduates of today are in the middle of a global recession. Getting that first job is harder than ever.

But yes I agree with the rest of your post. GPA nowadays is not incredibly useful. People skills are also critical.

My first job was a cashier. Then I got some data entry gigs. Then from those, I had enough working experience to get a real office job (clerk). Now, I'm a CGA with a full time accounting job. I didn't have connections. I think for the average person, it's a series of lucky breaks that gets them somewhere. I went through the same struggle that many students did. I've sent zillions of resumes. There was a time where I thought my resume was good but after much more failure I realized there was room to improve. The important insight is that students need to work hard to create opportunities. Sometimes you're unlucky and lack the opportunities. So that means you just have to keep trying. There's a saying "If you want to increase your success rate, double your failure rate". That doesn't mean you deliberately fail. It just means you try twice as hard.

[Syne]

You couldn't be any wronger. If you are majoring in business at a respectable school (like UofT), it is very easy to find jobs, especially for the summer after 3rd year. Anybody, i mean ANYBODY can get a paper pushing job in 1st or 2nd year, IF they choose to work unpaid. Sure, the kid with connection will be $8000 richer than you at the end of the summer, but you will be in the same competitive position to pursue other jobs.

Except it's the students who do not have strong family connections that need a paycheck to survive week-to-week.

[mastercool]

I know some not so smart people in relatively decent positions...the job market really is all who you know, especially if you have questionable skills from a general bachelors program.

As for me, I lucked out and got a job making $14.5 an hr in the construction industry...I feel like the program I took was wasteful (commerce) and didn't really help me much on the job front. Sure, at first HR was impressed when I told them I had graduated, but I feel like my brain is going to waste a long with my life. I'm basically answering phones and confronting customers...these are low end skills a high school graduate could probably do..(yet they asked for a degree).

Many of my classmates haven't found jobs in their field (And I graduated in 2010!). Most are still working in retail and restaurant jobs. The career center at my university is a complete joke - I'm not sure why a gardener or water games attendant position is posted in there, but it is.

There are a few decent jobs out there, but with everybody and their dog applying for them, chances are very minimal of getting hired. Also since there is so few entry level jobs out there, most positions are on a "take it or leave it basis" leaving minimum room for any kind of advancement.

It's probably better in other cities, but with practically no large business hubs here (Winnipeg) and being relatively a small city, WHO you know definitely gets you further in your career.

[spike1128]

Except it's the students who do not have strong family connections that need a paycheck to survive week-to-week.

I always said that rich kids have it easy. Not everyone can work unpaid internships.

[JustMan]

I agree with some of the comments. I regret not networking early in my Uni education. Now im stuck in a middle of no-where and regret about it.

[Le Loon]

I call it the nepotism Ponzi scheme.

In first or second year of university, you need a relative or colleague of a relative to place you in a paper shuffling position at Big Company.

In third year, the name brand of Big Company gets you a position with Bigger Company.

In fourth year, your third year internship lands you a full time gig with either Bigger Company or Bigger Company's Competitor. Notice how no one can claim nepotism at this point because "they only got them their first job - they did it all themselves after that!"

A student with no connections may be able to make it, but they have to start lower and therefore face a longer trudge with more steps towards the same salary and prestige. IE. they may be able to land a contract position with Big Company after graduating, and effectively be 4 years behind the first student in terms of their career.

I see this all the time at the company I work at, and at others. I suppose I will do the same for my daughter, even though nobody helped me.

[alpharius]

You couldn't be any wronger. If you are majoring in business at a respectable school (like UofT), it is very easy to find jobs, especially for the summer after 3rd year. Anybody, i mean ANYBODY can get a paper pushing job in 1st or 2nd year, IF they choose to work unpaid. Sure, the kid with connection will be $8000 richer than you at the end of the summer, but you will be in the same competitive position to pursue other jobs.

Also, campus recruiting nowadays isn't strictly about GPAs. Relevant extracurricular activities and leadership experience set the tone. I actually got my first office job because of my experience working as a waiter, because of the people skills I learned from the job (evident from my above-average tip earning power).

At the end of the day, getting employed is mostly about competence.


This post actually made me laugh because it was so wrong. Do you even realize how many graduates the GTA produces each year in business? A recent study in the GTA clearly highlighted that for every job, there were several graduates looking to fill it. The previous poster's comment was bang on - which is why they call the act of nepotism - "getting your foot in the door".

Secondly, if getting a job was about competance, then why doesn't society tie employment to competence? In fact it has done everything it can to prevent this. Ontario has eliminated standardized testing, vastly increased the number of graduates via a system of "zero grade" and mark inflation, and the bulk of employment is found through networking which is caused by a de facto closed labour market. If that sounds like the system responds to merit, my question to you is how does one become so disconnected from reality?

[Audience]

I see this all the time at the company I work at, and at others. I suppose I will do the same for my daughter, even though nobody helped me.

Please dont be part of the problem. It is in your power to break the cycle of nepotism before it is too late! :(

[Syne]

Agreed. Le Loon, way to crap all over the merit system by conpsiring to hire a relative before the job is even available. No wonder we have disparities in opportunity in this country when people are shameless about favourtism.

[Le Loon]

Agreed. Le Loon, way to crap all over the merit system by conpsiring to hire a relative before the job is even available. No wonder we have disparities in opportunity in this country when people are shameless about favourtism.

This country? Try every country. It is human nature, and will never, ever go away. When you hold your tiny baby in your arms you will understand the mammalian instinct to protect your child at all costs, above all others. I would die for her, and I would kill for her. Given the choice between you, a complete stranger, and my daughter, guess who I will pick.

Nobody helped me out, and I had to work double hard to get where I am - because nobody has my back and the buck stops with me. I assure you, I've had a much rougher life that you did. I don't even have a mother or a father, and don't want my baby to go through the same hoops I went through.

As for nepotism in the corporate world, it is not direct nepotism like you would find in small businesses. It is indirect and often involves gentleman's agreements between families in competing firms, due to major corporation's anti-nepotism rules.

As for her competence, nepotism will only get you so far. Perhaps your first few jobs, and a few rungs up the corporate ladder early in your career. The rest is up to you, and can be done without help, but it takes drive and determination. I will make sure she has the best training money can buy early on, so that when it comes down to career advancement, she will have the competitive edge over those less fortunate.

[Syne]

This country? Try every country. It is human nature, and will never, ever go away. When you hold your tiny baby in your arms you will understand the mammalian instinct to protect your child at all costs, above all others. I would die for her, and I would kill for her. Given the choice between you, a complete stranger, and my daughter, guess who I will pick.

Nobody helped me out, and I had to work double hard to get where I am - because nobody has my back and the buck stops with me. I assure you, I've had a much rougher life that you did. I don't even have a mother or a father, and don't want my baby to go through the same hoops I went through.

As for nepotism in the corporate world, it is not direct nepotism like you would find in small businesses. It is indirect and often involves gentleman's agreements between families in competing firms, due to major corporation's anti-nepotism rules.

As for her competence, nepotism will only get you so far. Perhaps your first few jobs, and a few rungs up the corporate ladder early in your career. The rest is up to you, and can be done without help, but it takes drive and determination. I will make sure she has the best training money can buy early on, so that when it comes down to career advancement, she will have the competitive edge over those less fortunate.

You have not provided an argument for why nepotism is right, you've just given a reason for why it happens. I understand why you feel the way you feel, but I also hope you see the difference.

People don't come into this forum complaining about opportunities landing their 4th, 5th or 6th job. People come in here complaining about their first couple of jobs, because those are the largest barriers to entry. I'm sure you're smart enough to think of several examples where intertia takes over after an initial push. Your first job. Your first car. Your first home. Your first million. Getting the first is always the hardest.

[JustMan]

You have not provided an argument for why nepotism is right, you've just given a reason for why it happens. I understand why you feel the way you feel, but I also hope you see the difference.

People don't come into this forum complaining about opportunities landing their 4th, 5th or 6th job. People come in here complaining about their first couple of jobs, because those are the largest barriers to entry. I'm sure you're smart enough to think of several examples where intertia takes over after an initial push. Your first job. Your first car. Your first home. Your first million. Getting the first is always the hardest.

man, couldn't agree with you more. Once you start the ball rolling (as they would say), it will gradually get a bit easier as time goes on. Honestly, i've been trying hard, seems like still standing on a lost road.

[JustMan]

.

[JustMan]

Thank you all for the response. I'm feeling really frustrated right now, i apply to every posting, and yet have not received a single response from anywhere. Parents health are deteriorating and i don't want them to worry and still work their butt off when i graduate when supposedly they should retire. What tips can any of you give when applying for jobs online, man i feel like there's no hope at all.
sorry, i know many of you have seen similar thread with similar rant, but had to get it out.

[underjeep]

applying online is like sending your resume into a void, they just have it so you don't call and harrass them and use up their valuable time. The people who get hired have employee referrals or from networking. Sometimes you can network sometimes you can't, some people are lucky enough to be born to a daddy that has connections and can get them a job (sure, it's a type of networking), and others aren't .

[Futurama]

Thank you all for the response. I'm feeling really frustrated right now, i apply to every posting, and yet have not received a single response from anywhere. Parents health are deteriorating and i don't want them to worry and still work their butt off when i graduate when supposedly they should retire. What tips can any of you give when applying for jobs online, man i feel like there's no hope at all.
sorry, i know many of you have seen similar thread with similar rant, but had to get it out.

How many applications did you complete so far?
-Try different styles of your cover letter and resume.
-Be flexible with relocation.
-Don't get discouraged because it will only make things worse.
- Keep applying, attend job fairs, maybe agencies

Good luck.

[xXxRasxXx]

I am going through the exact same situation as you, trying to get into any entry level position for any firm at this point before I start COOP(want a good resume when I apply), my only advice to you would be to network HARD! create a linked in account, add the recruiters and just talk/email them , get face known to them so when the time comes for a networking event they will easily remember/recognize you.

~RAS

[JustMan]

I am going through the exact same situation as you, trying to get into any entry level position for any firm at this point before I start COOP(want a good resume when I apply), my only advice to you would be to network HARD! create a linked in account, add the recruiters and just talk/email them , get face known to them so when the time comes for a networking event they will easily remember/recognize you.

~RAS

oh i see nice to see you in the similar position, lol, sad truth is im on my last year about to go unemploy look for FT job. I've been doing anything best to my ability to look for a job, i feel like totally wasting my time now. I've been sending so many resumes that i've been offer to volunteer or do anything possible. Still yet no response. sigh.

[Macman8507]

oh i see nice to see you in the similar position, lol, sad truth is im on my last year about to go unemploy look for FT job. I've been doing anything best to my ability to look for a job, i feel like totally wasting my time now. I've been sending so many resumes that i've been offer to volunteer or do anything possible. Still yet no response. sigh.

what's your cumulative average like?

[ssharm02]

I am also going to chime in and say, applying online is a complete waste of time. It simply doesn't work with banks....

I completed CSC back in December 2011 and sent like 100 online applications and got nothing. The two interviews I did get were thanks to my dad, who knew the local branch manager at TD and another long time employee at TD (I had to go meet them personally & handed them my resume), too bad I failed in both of them.

[Rainne]

I am also going to chime in and say, applying online is a complete waste of time. It simply doesn't work with banks....

I completed CSC back in December 2011 and sent like 100 online applications and got nothing. The two interviews I did get were thanks to my dad, who knew the local branch manager at TD and another long time employee at TD (I had to go meet them personally & handed them my resume), too bad I failed in both of them.

^ Not necessarily..I have a friend who got a job at the bank through online application..(no referrals)

[JustMan]

what's your cumulative average like?

lol, actually not alot of people has asked for my transcript, but its 3.22. yeah kinda low.

[Macman8507]

lol, actually not alot of people has asked for my transcript, but its 3.22. yeah kinda low.

Ye unfortunately this is going to hurt you a lot. GPA is an easy screening tool for a lot of finance jobs and 3.22 is going to hurt you immensely. I would start by getting your grades up. Firms love upward trends. Also if finance is what you enjoy doing i suggest taking a look at the MFin Program at Wilfred Laurier. It's certainly not equivalent to UFT/Ivey/Queens but according to linkedin a lot of their graduates have found employment at respectable firms in analyst type positions.

[JustMan]

Ye unfortunately this is going to hurt you a lot. GPA is an easy screening tool for a lot of finance jobs and 3.22 is going to hurt you immensely. I would start by getting your grades up. Firms love upward trends. Also if finance is what you enjoy doing i suggest taking a look at the MFin Program at Wilfred Laurier. It's certainly not equivalent to UFT/Ivey/Queens but according to linkedin a lot of their graduates have found employment at respectable firms in analyst type positions.

certainly 3.22/4 is not a stellar mark, but i would say average. And again, im not asking for a finance analyst ibanking job right off the bat, i certainly hope to work my way up for one, but all i want is an entry position for now. But nothing is working, i would consider a MFin program after i graduate tho.

[sirex]

wtf are these people smoking. no one asks for your grades for entry level retail banking. grade are not important. being personable and not ******** is important though.

[Macman8507]

wtf are these people smoking. no one asks for your grades for entry level retail banking. grade are not important. being personable and not ******** is important though.

Well i just went through the process. The Grades got me the interview and being personable is what got me a job offer. Certainly ones GPA is not everything but having a high GPA makes the process easier

[JustMan]

Well i just went through the process. The Grades got me the interview and being personable is what got me a job offer. Certainly ones GPA is not everything but having a high GPA makes the process easier

Ohhh i see, what marks did you get that enable you to land that job? What job is it? (Just curious as to current financial recruitment process)

[Syne]

certainly 3.22/4 is not a stellar mark, but i would say average.

I can only speak for UWO, but 3.22 is around a 77 avg, and is certainly above average, as it is a B+ and average is C.

[sirex]

Well i just went through the process. The Grades got me the interview and being personable is what got me a job offer. Certainly ones GPA is not everything but having a high GPA makes the process easier

No, you're just saying that, thinking that was what it was. I work for the bank, I know it wasn't my grades that got me my job.

[JustMan]

Do you guys recommend me doing my CSC? Does place(banks) usually offer volunteer work?

[gilboman]

applying online is like sending your resume into a void, they just have it so you don't call and harrass them and use up their valuable time. The people who get hired have employee referrals or from networking. Sometimes you can network sometimes you can't, some people are lucky enough to be born to a daddy that has connections and can get them a job (sure, it's a type of networking), and others aren't .

nope... maybe for a small company. Any mid/large sized organization have HR that does all hiring. Referrals are still dumped into the general pool (online) and are screened by HR. Now, if the referral makes it past the HR screening and actually gets to have an interview, then referrals/networking comes into play.

But in mid/large and especially public sector, applying online is only way, there's no way for me to pass my friend/relative's resume to a hiring manager or even myself if they don't make it through HR first. Referrals are more for letting someone know of an opportunity and once they pass the initial HR, established relationship helps a lot.

Now for PT/Summer/Interns is different, that is really casual and people can pretty much slot in their kids/relatives or whomever because HR really doesn't care about those.

[underjeep]

nope... maybe for a small company. Any mid/large sized organization have HR that does all hiring. Referrals are still dumped into the general pool (online) and are screened by HR. Now, if the referral makes it past the HR screening and actually gets to have an interview, then referrals/networking comes into play.

But in mid/large and especially public sector, applying online is only way, there's no way for me to pass my friend/relative's resume to a hiring manager or even myself if they don't make it through HR first. Referrals are more for letting someone know of an opportunity and once they pass the initial HR, established relationship helps a lot.

Now for PT/Summer/Interns is different, that is really casual and people can pretty much slot in their kids/relatives or whomever because HR really doesn't care about those.

alright, but that's the opposite from what I'm used to. If there are 5 steps to get a job for where I work, the first 2 steps is where referrals and networking help out, then the last 3 steps he is all on his own with corporate because they do the actual hiring, we do the initial screening.

[Macman8507]

No, you're just saying that, thinking that was what it was. I work for the bank, I know it wasn't my grades that got me my job.

You do realize different banks/different positions may have different application procedures. To OP, i finished my third year with a 3.9 CA. I wouldn't waste your money on the CSC. Experience is important, before my third year i pretty much had a blank resume. I got involved at school and got an it consulting job at my Universities library. I suggest applying for these during school jobs. They are fairly easy and a lot of room for promotion/additional responsibilities and get those grades up.

[JustMan]

You do realize different banks/different positions may have different application procedures. To OP, i finished my third year with a 3.9 CA. I wouldn't waste your money on the CSC. Experience is important, before my third year i pretty much had a blank resume. I got involved at school and got an it consulting job at my Universities library. I suggest applying for these during school jobs. They are fairly easy and a lot of room for promotion/additional responsibilities and get those grades up.

Oh i see, yeah i am definitely going to apply for alot of school jobs, once i get back in fall. I really hope to get some experience, but seems so im in blank right now.

[Mentochew]

Hi, I don't mean to criticize you or anything. But isn't co-op the biggest perk of going into UTSC's BBA program? How is the state of the co-op programs over there? I remember hearing that even Waterloo's AFM students had trouble finding co-op last year.

Anyhow, my advice is to delay your graduation date. Simply because there is literally very little benefit for you to graduate in your current state. Stay in part-time and do any sort of work. Take a break from school if tuition is getting too heavy. After reading about your job hunt results, what I recommend is: Volunteer -> Customer service -> Bank teller -> Move within the company. I was in the same position last year and I can confidently tell you that no company is willing to pay someone who does not have relevant experience. This is especially true for minimum wage cashier and other customer service jobs...Well for me it was because my extracurricular positions had fancy names and made me seem overqualified. I somehow lucked out and got an interview 7 months after handing in a resume and have been snowballing in experience since then.

[JustMan]

Hi, I don't mean to criticize you or anything. But isn't co-op the biggest perk of going into UTSC's BBA program? How is the state of the co-op programs over there? I remember hearing that even Waterloo's AFM students had trouble finding co-op last year.

Anyhow, my advice is to delay your graduation date. Simply because there is literally very little benefit for you to graduate in your current state. Stay in part-time and do any sort of work. Take a break from school if tuition is getting too heavy. After reading about your job hunt results, what I recommend is: Volunteer -> Customer service -> Bank teller -> Move within the company. I was in the same position last year and I can confidently tell you that no company is willing to pay someone who does not have relevant experience. This is especially true for minimum wage cashier and other customer service jobs...Well for me it was because my extracurricular positions had fancy names and made me seem overqualified. I somehow lucked out and got an interview 7 months after handing in a resume and have been snowballing in experience since then.

yeah, unfortunately, i didnt get into their "co-op" program, which set me into this loser without a job. Gosh.

[underjeep]

for business you are paying your tuition fee pretty much for the co-op positions and getting those placements

[JustMan]

Sorry to bump this post up again. Just been lol bored out of mind being unemployed. But i have been looking, does anyone know like any volunteer/internship that are possibly offer to soon graduate students? Man, i know alot of you are tired of hearing this, but this forum is what giving me hope. I recently did apply for a CSR position at CIBC, hope to god, i can at least get an interview. I have some plans at school tho finding a TA job and perhaps account administrator for school. But this summer, just been really bad :(. I've even done a bit of a visit to my local bank and hopefully they give me a chance :S.

[HTTP04]

@OP

I was in your shoes not too long ago.

My GPA wasnt really good enough to make cutoffs for IB Analyst positions in Big 5, so I had to look at other options

1) Networking (obviously)
2) Set my sights lower to boutique/MM firms

A brief history of my life:
Worked as a summer intern at one of the Big 5 -> Networked my ***** off and did a buyside internship -> Leveraged both experience + Kept in touch with some of my contacts -> I am currently working as an intern at a MM Investment Bank

Alot of people on this forum mention networking and there's a good reason for that.

I seriously dont know how I can emphasize the networking part any further.

And no, except the summer intern at one of Big 5, I have never been asked about my GPA.

To simplify: If you are presentable, the person likes you, and you can walk the talk -> you will get hired.

[hmm]

At my local branch, both co-ops got their jobs through "networking" if that helps you out.

[projectmoonlightcafe]

There is seriously a thread like this every single week. EVERY WEEK DUDE. EVERY WEEK.

A TELLER POSITION IS NOT AN ENTRY LEVEL JOB AT THE BANK. IT's a CUSTOMER SERVICE JOB, like working at MCDONALDS. Do not aim for the teller position. Don't do it. You're better off shooting your self. Seriously. You'll want to after a few months, lol.

I graduated without a finance or business major and couldn't find a decent job so I started working as a CASUAL PART TIME teller...so the bottom of the teller pile. I am now one of the lead researchers for one of the largest investment consulting companies in the world. I would not have been able to progress in my career had I not taken the teller job.

EDIT: by the way, I knew no one to get where I am now. It's all luck, integrity, and approach

[projectmoonlightcafe]

So you went from pt teller -> lead researchee in one of the largest investment firm?

Help me fill in the missing picture because I have trouble understanding how a pt teller jumped to a lead researcher without any network

Well, this was over the span of a dozen years. Spent my first couple of months as a part time teller. Didn't get the hours so I applied to another department for a contract position and got the job. Asked my teller supervisor at the time and she okay'd it. After about a year moved on to another position in the bank. Over that time one of the people I was dealing with on the phone from the brokerage side was going on mat leave and thought after working with me she thought I was a good replacement. Completed my CFA and MBA during those years since I didn't have good financial foundations. Applied to about 30 different positions afterwards with little success. Got pissed and called HR and gave them a piece of my mind....guess the HR guy was pretty impressed at my bluntness and put through one of my resumes to a research position covering mutual funds. About a year after I was hired for that position my manager told me at the time there were about 10 finalists and I was near the middle, but I guess I did the interview well and they hired me. Unfortunately the skill set I gained during my 6 years at that job didn't translate too well outside of researching portfolio managers. Saw a posting on the CFA website for one of the investment consulting companies looking for a lead researcher for portfolio managers. Since I knew I wouldn't have a lot of competition due to the narrowness of the field (there are only about 2 analysts in each of the banks who did what I did at the time and I was pretty tenured by then) I applied and got the job. I guess it's a success story. Would I have gotten to where I am faster had I had someone to leverage off of? Certainly. But I disagree that a teller job is useless.

EDIT: wow, you're banned. Oh well, a lot of explaining for nothing..lol

[JustMan]

At my local branch, both co-ops got their jobs through "networking" if that helps you out.

yeah, I've actually done that to few of my local banks, but I dont know was my approach wrong or something, they just asked me to go to their website and apply there. Ahh im all out of ideas

[projectmoonlightcafe]

yeah, I've actually done that to few of my local banks, but I dont know was my approach wrong or something, they just asked me to go to their website and apply there. Ahh im all out of ideas

Coz the banks are trying to crack down on that so everyone has an equal chance. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

[JustMan]

Coz the banks are trying to crack down on that so everyone has an equal chance. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Yeah that's what ppl i know with a bank job told me too. Not even volunteering will work :(.

[bizzballer]

I call it the nepotism Ponzi scheme.

In first or second year of university, you need a relative or colleague of a relative to place you in a paper shuffling position at Big Company.

In third year, the name brand of Big Company gets you a position with Bigger Company.

In fourth year, your third year internship lands you a full time gig with either Bigger Company or Bigger Company's Competitor. Notice how no one can claim nepotism at this point because "they only got them their first job - they did it all themselves after that!"

A student with no connections may be able to make it, but they have to start lower and therefore face a longer trudge with more steps towards the same salary and prestige. IE. they may be able to land a contract position with Big Company after graduating, and effectively be 4 years behind the first student in terms of their career.

This is exactly how it goes at the better universities. I have a lot of friends (and a lot of douche classmates) who have the same logic. They, like so many others, had zero skills coming out of 2nd year. Hell, what was the hardest course they took....managerial accounting maybe, macro economics. Who knows. At any rate, they have a relative or family member get them a BS position within a company. From then on, the knowledge they gain serves them and by 4th year they are the cream of the crop of the business world (in academia). It doesn't make them smarter then the other people with less connections, but it does make them luckier.

[bobo84]

Well, this was over the span of a dozen years. Spent my first couple of months as a part time teller. Didn't get the hours so I applied to another department for a contract position and got the job. Asked my teller supervisor at the time and she okay'd it. After about a year moved on to another position in the bank. Over that time one of the people I was dealing with on the phone from the brokerage side was going on mat leave and thought after working with me she thought I was a good replacement. Completed my CFA and MBA during those years since I didn't have good financial foundations. Applied to about 30 different positions afterwards with little success. Got pissed and called HR and gave them a piece of my mind....guess the HR guy was pretty impressed at my bluntness and put through one of my resumes to a research position covering mutual funds. About a year after I was hired for that position my manager told me at the time there were about 10 finalists and I was near the middle, but I guess I did the interview well and they hired me. Unfortunately the skill set I gained during my 6 years at that job didn't translate too well outside of researching portfolio managers. Saw a posting on the CFA website for one of the investment consulting companies looking for a lead researcher for portfolio managers. Since I knew I wouldn't have a lot of competition due to the narrowness of the field (there are only about 2 analysts in each of the banks who did what I did at the time and I was pretty tenured by then) I applied and got the job. I guess it's a success story. Would I have gotten to where I am faster had I had someone to leverage off of? Certainly. But I disagree that a teller job is useless.

EDIT: wow, you're banned. Oh well, a lot of explaining for nothing..lol

hey projectmoonlightcafe,

I actually just graduated and have started working in investment consulting. The company is not very big though. Might I ask what company it is that you work for? Also after working for so long in this industry do you think the skills that you acquire are transferable to any other type of roles? It seems like you can mainly move into private wealth management, institutional client relations or if you are very lucky perhaps as a fund of funds manager. Hard to find much information on investment consulting since its such a low profile field.

[underjeep]

when they tell you to apply online they are basically saying "no" the nice way. if they want you they will make it known to you and they ill help guide you through the process.
theres 3000 resumes on the stack through the online method, chances are yours isn't even going to be read.

[bizzballer]

when they tell you to apply online they are basically saying "no" the nice way. if they want you they will make it known to you and they ill help guide you through the process.
theres 3000 resumes on the stack through the online method, chances are yours isn't even going to be read.

Agree.

I've landed interviews before by selling myself. If you cold call and ask, "are you hiring for any positions? IF so what position...blah blah blah", then they will just tell you, "apply online".

But I've landed interviews before by selling myself. "I'm a 4th year business student interested in [your company] because.....blah blah blah" "I've done this, this, that and that, I have these skills blah blah".

Got rejected from the interview process, but I feel good that I was at least able to get the job.

[sirex]

Well, this was over the span of a dozen years. Spent my first couple of months as a part time teller. Didn't get the hours so I applied to another department for a contract position and got the job. Asked my teller supervisor at the time and she okay'd it. After about a year moved on to another position in the bank. Over that time one of the people I was dealing with on the phone from the brokerage side was going on mat leave and thought after working with me she thought I was a good replacement. Completed my CFA and MBA during those years since I didn't have good financial foundations. Applied to about 30 different positions afterwards with little success. Got pissed and called HR and gave them a piece of my mind....guess the HR guy was pretty impressed at my bluntness and put through one of my resumes to a research position covering mutual funds. About a year after I was hired for that position my manager told me at the time there were about 10 finalists and I was near the middle, but I guess I did the interview well and they hired me. Unfortunately the skill set I gained during my 6 years at that job didn't translate too well outside of researching portfolio managers. Saw a posting on the CFA website for one of the investment consulting companies looking for a lead researcher for portfolio managers. Since I knew I wouldn't have a lot of competition due to the narrowness of the field (there are only about 2 analysts in each of the banks who did what I did at the time and I was pretty tenured by then) I applied and got the job. I guess it's a success story. Would I have gotten to where I am faster had I had someone to leverage off of? Certainly. But I disagree that a teller job is useless.

EDIT: wow, you're banned. Oh well, a lot of explaining for nothing..lol


Not sure I see the purpose of your post. I mean, ya, I get it, you moved from teller to something useful over dozen of years, great. However, that is just it.. DOZENs of years. So, you started as a teller back in the early 80's, late 80's?

The landscape has changed significantly since then. You cant even apply to internal positions until youve completed your posted time - usualy 1 year. And then what? You do your post as a teller and after 2 years, you CANT move up, not unless you have any significant education.... Maybe to a sales job.. and then you are stuck at retail banking for life.

[eiad77]

Well, this was over the span of a dozen years. Spent my first couple of months as a part time teller. Didn't get the hours so I applied to another department for a contract position and got the job. Asked my teller supervisor at the time and she okay'd it. After about a year moved on to another position in the bank. Over that time one of the people I was dealing with on the phone from the brokerage side was going on mat leave and thought after working with me she thought I was a good replacement. Completed my CFA and MBA during those years since I didn't have good financial foundations. Applied to about 30 different positions afterwards with little success. Got pissed and called HR and gave them a piece of my mind....guess the HR guy was pretty impressed at my bluntness and put through one of my resumes to a research position covering mutual funds. About a year after I was hired for that position my manager told me at the time there were about 10 finalists and I was near the middle, but I guess I did the interview well and they hired me. Unfortunately the skill set I gained during my 6 years at that job didn't translate too well outside of researching portfolio managers. Saw a posting on the CFA website for one of the investment consulting companies looking for a lead researcher for portfolio managers. Since I knew I wouldn't have a lot of competition due to the narrowness of the field (there are only about 2 analysts in each of the banks who did what I did at the time and I was pretty tenured by then) I applied and got the job. I guess it's a success story. Would I have gotten to where I am faster had I had someone to leverage off of? Certainly. But I disagree that a teller job is useless.

EDIT: wow, you're banned. Oh well, a lot of explaining for nothing..lol


Not sure I see the purpose of your post. I mean, ya, I get it, you moved from teller to something useful over dozen of years, great. However, that is just it.. DOZENs of years. So, you started as a teller back in the early 80's, late 80's?

The landscape has changed significantly since then. You cant even apply to internal positions until youve completed your posted time - usualy 1 year. And then what? You do your post as a teller and after 2 years, you CANT move up, not unless you have any significant education.... Maybe to a sales job.. and then you are stuck at retail banking for life.

He said "a dozen" meaning he started in the year 2000.

[adehbone]

So far, what I have got from this thread.

-3.22/4.00 gpa. Not great, not horrible. Nothing to write home about.
-You did a BBA in Finance and now want to be a teller?
-You have no real experience? What the heck did you do for 3 years?
-You have no real ECs? Same question as above.

For the first step. I suggest you come up with a better story. Why did you study a BBA in Finance? What is your end goal? Do you trade your own account? Do you read WSJ/Bloomberg/etc? What books have you read? Why is your grades so low? What is your BBA/Finance average, why is not an "A" average"? Have you done any modeling?

If all you could say is my GPA is weak, I spent 4 years doing a BBA and want to be a teller now...not sure what to say.

[Syne]

3.22 is a pretty healthy GPA.

[adehbone]

3.22 is a pretty healthy GPA.

As already stated it is not for the field the OP is targeting. General rule is 3.6+ or top 20% of your graduating class.

[JustMan]

So far, what I have got from this thread.

-3.22/4.00 gpa. Not great, not horrible. Nothing to write home about.
-You did a BBA in Finance and now want to be a teller?
-You have no real experience? What the heck did you do for 3 years?
-You have no real ECs? Same question as above.

For the first step. I suggest you come up with a better story. Why did you study a BBA in Finance? What is your end goal? Do you trade your own account? Do you read WSJ/Bloomberg/etc? What books have you read? Why is your grades so low? What is your BBA/Finance average, why is not an "A" average"? Have you done any modeling?

If all you could say is my GPA is weak, I spent 4 years doing a BBA and want to be a teller now...not sure what to say.

Hi there, mainly in this forum I was looking for constructive feedback from more experience people in the workforce, but not criticism ( what i felt when im reading your post) particularly from you. But i still value your perspective and view in my case.
Answer 1: 3.22/4 i know its not a good GPA, but consider in the norm of U of T, its consider average and is in the distinction range. I admit I did not put in my full effort, but i've been trying really hard in yr 3/4 to get my grades in 3.5/3.6 range to open doors for potential graduate school. All my 3rd/4 yr finance courses has been A- to A+ ( so far).
Answer 2: I did not do a BBA finance yet, im a candidate for one, unfortunately I did not work my ***** off well enough to get myself into a IB job right away. Not everyone jumps their way to a IB analyst job. Where in the world, do you see me asking for a teller job, there's alot of entry position jobs, teller is just one of them. There's many regret in my life, im not perfect, nor am i the smartest one that's why im aiming to start low. For 3 years, i did work, i had experiences, but not RELEVANT experiences, if you read carefully sir/madam. I applied many finance entry jobs throughout my three years ( not so much in my 1st yr)
Answer 3: EC? Just because I have not told you everything on my resume, don't assume.

Answer the rest: Why do you say this a story? You think im looking for pity from you? As to why I'm studying BBA, because i have interest in it, i thought job market would be decent (but i guess i'm wrong). What makes you think trading will aid in helping me find a finance job? Why not payoff my 12k/yr debt first? That's not smart capital allocation and relatively risky in my case. I do read WSJ/Bloomberg occasionally, but often. And not sure what you mean by "end goal", but the GOALS i look forward and try to work towards is to hopefully work as a executive in big bank/IB etc, and i dont look for end goals in my life, but i continually try to aim higher goals, but goals have to start off somewhere right.

Im not sure would generation you were born in, but in the modern society/workforce, I am not the only one who will achieve a finance BBA degree, there's is thousands of students every year who graduates with a BBA degree and finance is definitely a popular one. There's competition, and I am definitely not cream of the crop, that's why i want to start off somewhere in my life, and continue on from there. I definitely aim to work on a CFA, and eventually move on to more designation and higher level of education.

Not sure why i answered you fully, but guess i had too much time in hand.
Thank you for reading :).

[Syne]

As already stated it is not for the field the OP is targeting. General rule is 3.6+ or top 20% of your graduating class.

Unfortunately, due to the way GPA is calculated, if you're a high 70's student, you're going to lose like .5 GPA than if you're a low 80's student. So the guy with a 78 avg. might have a 3.2 GPA, but the guy with an 81 avg. might have a 3.7 GPA.

The difference is superficial at the end of the day.

[Le Loon]

3.22 is a pretty healthy GPA.

I wouldn't want somebody with a 3.2 GPA managing my portfolio. Cashing my checks as a teller maybe, but not managing my money. I value my hard fought wealth more than such an employee would value their paycheck.

GPA serves as a signal of intelligence in lieu of work experience.

Such a low GPA is a signal that the candidate is not an "investment grade bond" in bond credit rating parlance.
Financial institutions are in the business of evaluating risk, and a 3.2 GPA is a signal of a risky investment.

This is especially so, considering finance grads compete with math-fi quants and actuarial science grads who are subject to much more rigorous training.

[Syne]

GPA serves as a signal of intelligence in lieu of work experience.

You know I love celebrating the meritocracy that is post-secondary education, but plenty of very successful people have flunked out of university for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with intelligence. Yet, we're not talking about flunking, we're talking about a B+ average. Anyways, chances are excellent that you will never know the GPA of the person managing your portfolio. Wealth management and investment banking, like any other industry, are rife with nepotism and people with no real paper credentials at all. At some point, not only did many of these people start out with no experience, they completely lacked a university education.


Such a low GPA is a signal that the candidate is not an "investment grade bond" in bond credit rating parlance.
Financial institutions are in the business of evaluating risk, and a 3.2 GPA is a signal of a risky investment.

This is especially so, considering finance grads compete with math-fi quants and actuarial science grads who are subject to much more rigorous training.

Cool story. Next time you're talking to your finance guy, ask him to bust out his university transcript and pore over it like a madman.

[adehbone]

Hi there, mainly in this forum I was looking for constructive feedback from more experience people in the workforce, but not criticism ( what i felt when im reading your post) particularly from you. But i still value your perspective and view in my case.
.

To begin, cry me a river. I work in the industry and have experience. This is how everyone in this industry speaks get used to it. I do not care to give you pity or what, I am being real.

Any new prospective hire the first questions we ask is. What is your story? (Give me your pitch in 2 mins). Why Finance? Why us? Where will you be in 5 years? Usually the first one your story/pitch is going to be 30% of the decision of is this person worth my time at all.

Your story is weak, I state this again. You have 12k in debt (an Ivey kid has 50k in debt and probably jobless your point?). You want to be a big executive in a bank someday (ok, not sure wtf that even means).
If you pass all the above questions, the next and most important question we ask. Is work through a case/trade/investment/school project/etc... From point A to point B. We want to see how you think and what analytical abilities you have to assess a situation. If someone cannot tell me their entire thinking process and how they would problem sovle or model something, again they are not worth my time.

Experience. There is tons of ways to spin experience into the relevant skills seeked. I have seen people from HR backgrounds make into finance, you just need to know how to make it relevant and explain how your thinking process will be able to ace the questions stated above. But without a real end goal or process to get there, sort of hard to mold any of your experience into what the job would require

GPA. Your GPA is not as crap as I thought originally. If 3.22 is distinction at UofT and you have a "A" average in your finance courses that should be on the top of your resume. That is probably your strongest asset to date. Probably the way you want to start your "story" and explain how succeding in the classroom translates to working a high pressued fast paced environment.

[adehbone]

Unfortunately, due to the way GPA is calculated, if you're a high 70's student, you're going to lose like .5 GPA than if you're a low 80's student. So the guy with a 78 avg. might have a 3.2 GPA, but the guy with an 81 avg. might have a 3.7 GPA.

The difference is superficial at the end of the day.

You explained the exact reason why Finance/Consulting jobs look at GPAs. They want to hire the person wit the 81 first not the high 70s. High 70s tells me you worked hard and caught some of the material. The 81+ dude mastered the material and finished in the top 20% of the class, thats who they want.

[JustMan]

Anyway, I appreciate your feedback, but yea I realize I can't jump to an finance analyst job that's why I hope to aim low and gradually acquire skills and experiences needed to move up.

[bluejazzy]

I wouldn't want somebody with a 3.2 GPA managing my portfolio. Cashing my checks as a teller maybe, but not managing my money. I value my hard fought wealth more than such an employee would value their paycheck.

GPA serves as a signal of intelligence in lieu of work experience.

Such a low GPA is a signal that the candidate is not an "investment grade bond" in bond credit rating parlance.
Financial institutions are in the business of evaluating risk, and a 3.2 GPA is a signal of a risky investment.

This is especially so, considering finance grads compete with math-fi quants and actuarial science grads who are subject to much more rigorous training.

as someone from Uoft, I always include the class average beside my own grades. 3.2 may not be great, but consider that a lot of business courses at Uoft average -C to C+. Showing this to someone means something because it shows how you've performed relative to your peers. Don't think recruiters don't know that Ivey kids all get bumped from Cs to Bs.

[sirex]

He said "a dozen" meaning he started in the year 2000.


I know you're trying to be a smarty troll, however, if I told you I worked in the bank for a dozen years, would that then mean I started in 2000? No, it doesn't. You don't have a reference point.

[eiad77]

I am now one of the lead researchers for one of the largest investment consulting companies in the world. I would not have been able to progress in my career had I not taken the teller job.

EDIT: by the way, I knew no one to get where I am now.


Would I have gotten to where I am faster had I had someone to leverage off of? Certainly. But I disagree that a teller job is useless.

EDIT: wow, you're banned. Oh well, a lot of explaining for nothing..lol


I know you're trying to be a smarty troll, however, if I told you I worked in the bank for a dozen years, would that then mean I started in 2000? No, it doesn't. You don't have a reference point.

If you still worked at the bank then yes, most likely it would. You might be right that the 12 year span wasn't 2000-now, but the most obvious reference point is now because his dozen year journey ended with him working as a lead researcher which is his current job.

[adehbone]

Anyway, I appreciate your feedback, but yea I realize I can't jump to an finance analyst job that's why I hope to aim low and gradually acquire skills and experiences needed to move up.

I gave up a long time ago. But you still do not get it. The point is you could get a finance analyst job with the right story/resume/cover letter/networking. But since you lack simple reading comprehension skills I doubt you will. There was a thread recently where a kid with worse stats then you landed in a capital markets job.

[JustMan]

I gave up a long time ago. But you still do not get it. The point is you could get a finance analyst job with the right story/resume/cover letter/networking. But since you lack simple reading comprehension skills I doubt you will. There was a thread recently where a kid with worse stats then you landed in a capital markets job.

haha thanks for your effort.

[projectmoonlightcafe]

Not sure I see the purpose of your post. I mean, ya, I get it, you moved from teller to something useful over dozen of years, great. However, that is just it.. DOZENs of years. So, you started as a teller back in the early 80's, late 80's?

The landscape has changed significantly since then. You cant even apply to internal positions until youve completed your posted time - usualy 1 year. And then what? You do your post as a teller and after 2 years, you CANT move up, not unless you have any significant education.... Maybe to a sales job.. and then you are stuck at retail banking for life.

Well, the previous guy asked how so he could bridge the gap...not that I was trying to boast or anything.

Yes, it was a dozen. I could probably have gotten where I am now in half that if I had the connections, but I'm just saying starting off as a teller doesn't mean you don't get anywhere.

[projectmoonlightcafe]

hey projectmoonlightcafe,

I actually just graduated and have started working in investment consulting. The company is not very big though. Might I ask what company it is that you work for? Also after working for so long in this industry do you think the skills that you acquire are transferable to any other type of roles? It seems like you can mainly move into private wealth management, institutional client relations or if you are very lucky perhaps as a fund of funds manager. Hard to find much information on investment consulting since its such a low profile field.

The good thing about investment consulting is that after a few years you just get poached. Sure it's usually one of the ones you listed, but the reason you get poached is because you make a lot more money. Once in a while if you make it to principal or higher you'll get other opportunities. For example, one person in our IC became CIO of the asset management side of one of the big Canadian insurance co's. Work for Mercer.

[projectmoonlightcafe]

If you still worked at the bank then yes, most likely it would. You might be right that the 12 year span wasn't 2000-now, but the most obvious reference point is now because his dozen year journey ended with him working as a lead researcher which is his current job.

Lol....yea....I started about 1999. So ABOUT a dozen years. I wasn't really trying to go specific.

Oh, and I used to have an arts and sci undergrad degree at UofT. Almost didn't graduate as GPA was too low..lol...so kudos to those who have high GPAs.

[Syne]

How do you get accepted into an MBA program if you've barely passed your undergrad?

Are the seats really not that competitive? I've heard that money > merit in many MBA schools, including Ivey and other world class ones. Any truth to this?

[projectmoonlightcafe]

How do you get accepted into an MBA program if you've barely passed your undergrad?

Are the seats really not that competitive? I've heard that money > merit in many MBA schools, including Ivey and other world class ones. Any truth to this?

Man...that was the hard part. At the time UofT wouldn't take me. York was even worse, they asked me to go take four 4th year courses and if I can maintain a 3.0 GPA (if i remember correctly) then they will CONSIDER me...what a load of crap, I pay them for courses that don't go to any program for a year, have to get the GPA, then they consider. Ended up going another route. Took the Queen's Executive MBA. I was the 2nd youngest person in my graduating class. They looked more at experience and GMAT rather than GPA. Got a 670 on my GMAT and at the time I had about 5 years work exp. Ended up better off as Executive MBAs seem to be more desired than regular ones. I liked the sound of Queen's more than UofT or York anyway (nothing against those schools, lol)

[akademiks]

Man...that was the hard part. At the time UofT wouldn't take me. York was even worse, they asked me to go take four 4th year courses and if I can maintain a 3.0 GPA (if i remember correctly) then they will CONSIDER me...what a load of crap, I pay them for courses that don't go to any program for a year, have to get the GPA, then they consider. Ended up going another route. Took the Queen's Executive MBA. I was the 2nd youngest person in my graduating class. They looked more at experience and GMAT rather than GPA. Got a 670 on my GMAT and at the time I had about 5 years work exp. Ended up better off as Executive MBAs seem to be more desired than regular ones. I liked the sound of Queen's more than UofT or York anyway (nothing against those schools, lol)

Very impressive.. I work in research myself, but moreso institutional research than corporate. I've also been trying to break into a corporate research position, but lack the foundations in finance that a lot of companies are looking for..
I'm at the point where I'm considering getting an MBA, but fear that my GPA isn't competitive enough (2.95 overall, 3.5 in last 2 years).

As for the OP, just keep being persistent. I've been in the same position. You may have to swallow your pride and get a CS position at a retail store, or become a cashier; but you have to put aside the thought in the back of your mind that some jobs are beneath you because you have a U of T degree.

Just try to gain some valuable work experience and you can build on that. Volunteer around your campus, get involved, attend mix & mingle sessions, etc.

Try to apply for some internships, your GPA meets the cutoff for a lot of them.

Maybe try some temp agencies, look up every job bank there is. Don't be afraid to apply for jobs you believe you're not qualified for.

[bobo84]

The good thing about investment consulting is that after a few years you just get poached. Sure it's usually one of the ones you listed, but the reason you get poached is because you make a lot more money. Once in a while if you make it to principal or higher you'll get other opportunities. For example, one person in our IC became CIO of the asset management side of one of the big Canadian insurance co's. Work for Mercer.

Cool, thanks for the response. I want to make the move from my current company to one of the big investment consulting companies like Towers Watson, Mercer, Aon Hewitt etc. How hard would you say it is to get a job as an investment analyst at one of these companies? My undergrad GPA is also pretty mediocre like a 3.2ish from UofT as well, but I will have experience doing asset allocation/manager research type stuff albeit at a very small firm and hopefully can pass L1 of the CFA.

Also, from your description of your work history it sounds like there aren't many people working in investment consulting at the Big 5 banks? Would you know of other companies located in Toronto that also do investment consulting work?

[projectmoonlightcafe]

Cool, thanks for the response. I want to make the move from my current company to one of the big investment consulting companies like Towers Watson, Mercer, Aon Hewitt etc. How hard would you say it is to get a job as an investment analyst at one of these companies? My undergrad GPA is also pretty mediocre like a 3.2ish from UofT as well, but I will have experience doing asset allocation/manager research type stuff albeit at a very small firm and hopefully can pass L1 of the CFA.

Also, from your description of your work history it sounds like there aren't many people working in investment consulting at the Big 5 banks? Would you know of other companies located in Toronto that also do investment consulting work?

I'd say you're pretty likely to be hired if you already have the experience. No, there's a difference between manager research on the retail level and on the institutional level. Even if there is institutional manager research at the big 5, chances are they still use outside investment consultants.

[HTTP04]

I gave up a long time ago. But you still do not get it. The point is you could get a finance analyst job with the right story/resume/cover letter/networking. But since you lack simple reading comprehension skills I doubt you will. There was a thread recently where a kid with worse stats then you landed in a capital markets job.

The other guy never did tell us what the exact position was

For all we know he can be a back office admin assistant

Better than nothing but yea.

[ssharm02]

Is it a good idea to apply for inbound/outbound banking call centre jobs? I dunno if I could handle 80 or 90 calls a day after day.....seems extreme. Anyone here have experience working at these call centres?

[niroopg]

Is it a good idea to apply for inbound/outbound banking call centre jobs? I dunno if I could handle 80 or 90 calls a day after day.....seems extreme. Anyone here have experience working at these call centres?

That's extreme? Sitting on your ***** answering phone calls is extreme?

[ssharm02]

That's extreme? Sitting on your ***** answering phone calls is extreme?

haha, have you worked at a call centre before? Some customers can be extremely rude....I guess it depends on your temperament. Doing this for 6 days a week is extreme IMO

[adehbone]

The other guy never did tell us what the exact position was

For all we know he can be a back office admin assistant

Better than nothing but yea.

Valid point. Then again I have never heard of a backoffice admin assitant being hired as a new grad dude. Usually goes to good looking chix in rando major or college.

Either way, my point was and is that people like OP have landed on the street and will continue to do so. Difference is some people have the will and confidence to chase what they want and zone in on what they want. This is a major thing for finance jobs, this is why one of the main questions is "who else you interviewing with?", if someone says trade shops/consulting/banking/research etc then you know they are desperate have no real direction and just looking for the best thing they could land.

I doubt OP has ever picked up a vault/wso/M&I guide etc while I remember at my school that was mandatory reading in 2nd year.

[HTTP04]

Valid point. Then again I have never heard of a backoffice admin assitant being hired as a new grad dude. Usually goes to good looking chix in rando major or college.

Either way, my point was and is that people like OP have landed on the street and will continue to do so. Difference is some people have the will and confidence to chase what they want and zone in on what they want. This is a major thing for finance jobs, this is why one of the main questions is "who else you interviewing with?", if someone says trade shops/consulting/banking/research etc then you know they are desperate have no real direction and just looking for the best thing they could land.

I doubt OP has ever picked up a vault/wso/M&I guide etc while I remember at my school that was mandatory reading in 2nd year.

+1

Lol, I remember back in 3rd year of Uni when I ask other Finance majors what they are interested in, most would reply: Oh, I want to become an Investment Banker. or go into S&T, hedge fund is good too, or maybe prop trading, I will take any of those!!

...some of these guys found decent jobs, but more often than not, majority of them are either unemployed or working in back office

I find that if the person is focused on a specific career and, like you said, have the will and confidence to chase it, they usually end up (or close enough) to their desired career path

[dealseeker2011]

I'm sure you'll gonna get it. Do not lose hope. It might be hard but it's not impossible. I believe in you :)

[bluejazzy]

B to B+ avg here, did a few internships during school but nothing special, did Csc and Cfa with school in my last year, spammed resumes, failed several interviews, but finally got offered an analyst contract position with a top 4 global investment consulting company. Effort and luck.

[tmkf_patryk]

Forget office work. Pick up a trade.

Move to Alberta. Drive Truck. Make $100K.

Wise words actually.

Rig welders can make from $300 to $700 an hour.
But when they get asked to work, they must work!
They get paid just for being there cause:
1- they need a big 1-ton+ truck
2-big welder ($15k+)
3-welding skill (j-man/red seal)
so it all adds up, and these guys pull in big bucks.

On the very low end, they make 50-70 bucks an hour, then everytime they have welder there its extra $/hour, then have truck its more $/hour, then they get paid for food/accomodations, etc so it ends up being big.
But you work in dangerous areas (danger pay $$$) sometimes super hot 60+ celcius, or super cold -50 celcius, and well, its work
$150,000 a year is fairly easily achievable

[HTTP04]

B to B+ avg here, did a few internships during school but nothing special, did Csc and Cfa with school in my last year, spammed resumes, failed several interviews, but finally got offered an analyst contract position with a top 4 global investment consulting company. Effort and luck.

+1

I have similar average (no excuses, I di**ed around 1st year and bit of 2nd year)

So people would stop msging me with the same questions:

My past work experience = intern at one of the Canadian banks -> intern at buy side and I leveraged the past two experience for the current intern position at a MM Investment Bank.

Except for the 1st work experience, talk of GPA never came up.

How I got the jobs:

Big 5 Internship: School career centre website (online application-> did well in interview -> got the job)
Buy side Internship: Networking
Current IB Internship: Networking

Once you get to know the person pretty well, it's simple as asking: "I would be interested in interning at your firm, what would be the best way I can position myself for an interview at your firm?"

Networking is everything.

[HTTP04]

Wise words actually.

Rig welders can make from $300 to $700 an hour.
But when they get asked to work, they must work!
They get paid just for being there cause:
1- they need a big 1-ton+ truck
2-big welder ($15k+)
3-welding skill (j-man/red seal)
so it all adds up, and these guys pull in big bucks.

On the very low end, they make 50-70 bucks an hour, then everytime they have welder there its extra $/hour, then have truck its more $/hour, then they get paid for food/accomodations, etc so it ends up being big.
But you work in dangerous areas (danger pay $$$) sometimes super hot 60+ celcius, or super cold -50 celcius, and well, its work
$150,000 a year is fairly easily achievable

TTC and Canada Post workers gets paid alot as well

[at1212b]

know there are always people nervous about not hitting the ground running, but there are plenty of people in your situation. Everybody I know (including myself) after graduation has found a job after graduation. You will too.

Just be patient, be persistent, and hopefully you have made friends who have or will find employment sooner then you where they will submit a resume for you (that is the easiest way to get the opportunity).

Seems like business programs try so hard in selling students jobs vs education, that it has caused more anxiety than ever before to fit into that business, networking, professional mold.

[HTTP04]

Here is a small sample of how I do my networking (full list of my contacts is a good 300~ people ish, most of which havent been contacted yet, working on it):

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q528/c2qshinakuma/NetworkingList.png

(Names crossed out, privacy reasons)

I try to network with all levels but for Boutique/MM I networked mostly with VP/MD because they got alot of pulling power

Even now I still network because
1) I am an intern, no FT offer...yet
2) I want to work at BB Investment Bank

...and yes, I do network with people outside of Investment Banking; alot of S&T people as well

[JustMan]

Hi appreciate alot of your comments again, i was planning to let this post die out but you guys made it back alive. I know what most of you are trying to say, that I can potentially land a better job, with certain preparation and etc. And I've tried, i started since late 2011 all the way until april when all the potential "finance" jobs were posted. I applied to literally all or most of those postings particularly from our school website. Not a single response. That's why i lost hope in going for a big shot job right off the bat, but try to aim lower maybe that way i have a chance. You guys also talked about confidence, i know confidence is essential in life in general, but confidence has to be at least built upon something at least? and undergraduate degree alone i dont think gives me a big confidence boost when there's a thousands of students graduating in a more prestige school than me. In terms of networking, I've been to few networking events, but the most i got was there business card and a few talk, i feel that i have nothing i can offer to them, why would they even choose me as an intern. As for HTTP04, how did you approach individuals in the industry to gather that many contacts?

[bluejazzy]

There are lots of Cfa/Caia/Frm get togethers, you can start there.

[projectmoonlightcafe]

There are lots of Cfa/Caia/Frm get togethers, you can start there.

Yea, but 99% of the attendees are LOOKING for a job...lol

[Rainne]

The sad reality that business program has essentially taught you nothing (aside from the basics), except provide you a base to find co-op/internships and develop your networking/social skills.

[ssharm02]

The sad reality that business program has essentially taught you nothing (aside from the basics), except provide you a base to find co-op/internships and develop your networking/social skills.

exactly...all the business and management classes are utterly useless, but the finance and accounting classes are worthwhile

[sleepyguy]

There are other things to get networking (not just networking events). Go join sports leagues... attend meetup groups (that website)... you'll be surprised. My biggest side job (IT system installs for small business/home) was playing tennis with a meetup group and my tennis partner was a lawyer who was complaining about his work and IT was poorly done by the last contractor. After the match we swapped numbers and I met him that same weekend. I've been offered work out of the blue but had to decline because I work FT already... but you get the point... get out there and network in other ways. Don't be pushy and ask upfront... people will talk about their jobs naturally and if they need or see openings they will offer them up if they like you.

[adehbone]

4 years of working your butt off to get good grades in a tough school. 4 years of paying tuition has not created motivation and confidence? Not sure what more you need you got 12k in debt, that should be enough to push you to reach your goals.

Also you still missed the point, you applying to everywhere with a ***** application is pointless. Congrats on clicking a button. You have holes in your armor you need to fix. These holes are clear, pickup a vault guide read 5 chapters, goto WSO buy their networking guide getting a business card is only the beginning.

You should really consider being a CA or take the LSAT and goto law school. That is where all the people I know like you landed in 2009, when the market became crap and 1/3 interns got offers to go back to their finance firms and most people took the safe easier path.